Guild Wars 2

Initial Idea

Idea 2

So I was just digging through my pm’s and came across this, in an old conversation I had with snippet about a WvW commander/zerg build,

I also noticed that there was not really that much information/builds readily available for people looking to zerg/command in WvW with their Mesmer’s, I think with some input we could put together a good build, and perhaps write up a guide for it (Id be happy to write it up myself if we can get enough information together)

I also have a link here if it is any help, the old Veil bots unite
thread which was a similar discussion which dropped off.

We could also add said guild/build to the Mesmer’s handbook if it gets put together, or perhaps get a sticky.

Thoughts?

It seems that this build is meant to be played by NA mesmers. After seeing some videos and builds, I see NA servers play WvW in a very different way than EU do.

While this build may work on small teams (5-15 people), it will be absolutely a mess when commanding and facing big zergs (+30 people), the most common thing in EU.

In such numbers, your health drops in a second and you need to be tankier. Also, the commander should be always the last to die, that’s why almost all commanders in blobs are guards and warriors.

So the biggest problems are:

- Absolutely no defense against conditions. Very low health, no Lemongrass and no Melandru runes.
- Your objective is to command, not to deal damage. Focus on defensive stats.

Looking at 10th dicember patch, I’ve been working on a mantra/glamour build as a pug/raid mesmer. But I think mantras suits better for a commander than a pug, so I designed this build, a commander version of the one I’m testing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl4zSpHWTqGa9IypCMHpHqWqtaleEb32FC-jkCBocCykDBigAOnrIaslRFRjVbDT9SISDL1WdAW0Ma1SBwkyI-w

- High survivability. 2800 armor, 26500 base health with defense against guards buff, -65% condition duration, extra 600 toughness while casting mantras, healing through kills, access to 6s of stability, nearly perma vigor and F4 invulnerability.
- Normal DPS: 2488 base power with sigil stacks and +15% phantasm damage.
- Active support by stability to your party, Veil, Null Field and Time Warp.

YES, I’ve been so frustrated with the lack of Mesmer zerging information… finally someone other than me is saying it….
I’d be happy if you wrote a guide and got some info about it

However, gotta say I don’t really like that build

Ansau.7326:

It seems that this build is meant to be played by NA mesmers. After seeing some videos and builds, I see NA servers play WvW in a very different way than EU do.

While this build may work on small teams (5-15 people), it will be absolutely a mess when commanding and facing big zergs (+30 people), the most common thing in EU.

In such numbers, your health drops in a second and you need to be tankier. Also, the commander should be always the last to die, that’s why almost all commanders in blobs are guards and warriors.

So the biggest problems are:

- Absolutely no defense against conditions. Very low health, no Lemongrass and no Melandru runes.
- Your objective is to command, not to deal damage. Focus on defensive stats.

Looking at 10th dicember patch, I’ve been working on a mantra/glamour build as a pug/raid mesmer. But I think mantras suits better for a commander than a pug, so I designed this build, a commander version of the one I’m testing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl4zSpHWTqGa9IypCMHpHqWqtaleEb32FC-jkCBocCykDBigAOnrIaslRFRjVbDT9SISDL1WdAW0Ma1SBwkyI-w

- High survivability. 2800 armor, 26500 base health with defense against guards buff, -65% condition duration, extra 600 toughness while casting mantras, healing through kills, access to 6s of stability, nearly perma vigor and F4 invulnerability.
- Normal DPS: 2488 base power with sigil stacks and +15% phantasm damage.
- Active support by stability to your party, Veil, Null Field and Time Warp.

Your build is quiet similar to the one I had in mind [even post a thread about it not long ago], Mantra/glamour is exactly what I’m looking for
However, from my experience in zerging, illusions die instantly and are completely unreliable, so I think deceptive evasion and empowered illusions are wasted traits :\

Also I’d probably run Staff for more support and survival, GS feels horrible for Zerging as it’s AoE is pretty bad >< [Other than iZerker, which will die instantly…]

Generally, Mesmers are pretty bad for commanding imo, it’s more of a back line class. imo :\

Ansau.7326:

It seems that this build is meant to be played by NA mesmers. After seeing some videos and builds, I see NA servers play WvW in a very different way than EU do.

While this build may work on small teams (5-15 people), it will be absolutely a mess when commanding and facing big zergs (+30 people), the most common thing in EU.

In such numbers, your health drops in a second and you need to be tankier. Also, the commander should be always the last to die, that’s why almost all commanders in blobs are guards and warriors.

So the biggest problems are:

- Absolutely no defense against conditions. Very low health, no Lemongrass and no Melandru runes.
- Your objective is to command, not to deal damage. Focus on defensive stats.

Looking at 10th dicember patch, I’ve been working on a mantra/glamour build as a pug/raid mesmer. But I think mantras suits better for a commander than a pug, so I designed this build, a commander version of the one I’m testing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl4zSpHWTqGa9IypCMHpHqWqtaleEb32FC-jkCBocCykDBigAOnrIaslRFRjVbDT9SISDL1WdAW0Ma1SBwkyI-w

- High survivability. 2800 armor, 26500 base health with defense against guards buff, -65% condition duration, extra 600 toughness while casting mantras, healing through kills, access to 6s of stability, nearly perma vigor and F4 invulnerability.
- Normal DPS: 2488 base power with sigil stacks and +15% phantasm damage.
- Active support by stability to your party, Veil, Null Field and Time Warp.

You are comparing what you see in posted videos of WvW on NA servers, where I don’t think many post zvz videos, for a good reason, to what you see live on EU servers (Zerg balls). If you think NA servers are chock full of roaming squads and not many zergs, you POV is skewed.

People post videos of their exploits. Watch the EU videos, I am sure there are also very few ZvZ vids.

@GOSU That clearly shows how much wvw videos you have seen. My opinion is based on what I’ve seen after facing servers from VS to AG (13 servers) for a year, and a bunch of videos from servers like Blackgate to Dragonband (pugs, guilds roaming…).
First, there are tons of ZvZ EU videos. My guild uploads 1 every week, and I’m in a server based on guilds.
Second, one thing is playing with blobs, an another totally different is basing your playstyle in blobs as a server. There are some eu servers which, in certain periods of the day, they only run a 80 man blob jumping the maps, mine included.
NA servers seems to have less packed pug zergs. In EU, we play with ball zergs, 50 people in the same point following the orders of a commander.
In EU, the commander is a leader. It is common he decides when to attack, which, how much, when and where siege to put, when to put water and fire fields… I’ve seen NA videos where the commanders are eles or necro full dps. That’s nearly impossible to see in first half part of EU servers. Commander are so important to simply go full dps and be the first to die.
I’ve seen in a lot of videos there are like 4, 5 or more orange swords on minimap. That is very difficult to see on Eu servers.

All this is about pug commanders, like KT ones, on eu servers with quite coverage. Of course in dedicated guilds this doesn’t happen, and in lower eu servers the playstyle is different.
At first, I founded a lot of builds from NA players useless, while seeing people amazed with them. It wasn’t after seeing a lot of videos that I understood wvw is not played in the same way in both server groups.

@SrebX DE is a personal preference and I only use it to roll twice and use Distortion. Phantasmal Fury is a great alternative, and you can also use 30/20/0/20 and take focus trait or Restorative Mantras.
I first started 30/20/0/20, but with new changes, Protected mantras will grant +600 toughness and I find it more useful.
Also, illusions die instantly only when the zerg is not compacted. For what I’ve seen, this tent to happen a lot in NA servers. The photos are an example of the power of iZerker.

Gave myself a shot at it: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJARWlwzqq3UTmGa9IhpH/u4I/0DlT9nXqgtB-jECBYiQIjAMcBKnrIaslNFRjVNjIqWnEziuIa1SBIryI-w

-Good armor and health
-Pretty good damage[secondary]
-Staff and GS, as two handed weapons, don’t require the commander to go running about slashing or blasting things left and right, making it easier to follow. Their auto-attacks are also pretty good overall, so it’s not a problem if the player takes a moment from attacking to form a strategy. They’re also pretty aesthetically morale boosting, I find, as the other weapons make the commander look a “small”.
-Blink would be used to get where you need to in battle so you’re never a step late, whether that be to lead your group around a corner or to retreat, you’ll always be at the head of the force.
-Feedback is universally useful, while attacking and defending. By standing behind the gate and measuring your distance, you can place the bubble around your gates to negate and protect them from damage.
-Mirror Images are mostly for getting illusions when you need them, whether it’s getting the speed boost while leading or confusing your foes. It will also help morale a bit, seeing the commander even if just clones.
-Time Warp: While not as wide spread as Mass Invisibility, it has a larger quantity that if can provide for, being able to help turn the flow of battles in a tight spot, figuratively or literally.

Traits: 0/10/30/30/0
-Far-Reaching Manipulation for Blink range
-Chaotic Revival and Retaliatory Demise for when you’re downed to help get back up fast and safe, as it doesn’t do well to have a down or dead commander.
-Chaotic Dampening, Medic’s Feedback, and Restorative Illusions for general defense and survival.
-Compounding Celerity for speed when needed

Did some tinkering based on your idea’s, although I did leave out the sentinels as its too expensive to be viable for most people (current sell orders around 130g, its a bad joke), and soldiers works well in most cases.

Link here

10/20/30/10/0
Halting strike
blade training and de
debilitating dissipation, bountiful interruption, chaotic interruption
medics feedback

Just an idea, trying to capitalise on the interrupts we get from Greatsword/focus/f3, and in a zerg v zerg situation they will be hitting a lot of people.

A mix of knights/soldiers, trying to be tanky enough to serve as the front line in a zerg fight, whilst also being able to do modest damage.

Ansau.7326:

@GOSU That clearly shows how much wvw videos you have seen. My opinion is based on what I’ve seen after facing servers from VS to AG (13 servers) for a year, and a bunch of videos from servers like Blackgate to Dragonband (pugs, guilds roaming…).
First, there are tons of ZvZ EU videos. My guild uploads 1 every week, and I’m in a server based on guilds.
Second, one thing is playing with blobs, an another totally different is basing your playstyle in blobs as a server. There are some eu servers which, in certain periods of the day, they only run a 80 man blob jumping the maps, mine included.
NA servers seems to have less packed pug zergs. In EU, we play with ball zergs, 50 people in the same point following the orders of a commander.
In EU, the commander is a leader. It is common he decides when to attack, which, how much, when and where siege to put, when to put water and fire fields… I’ve seen NA videos where the commanders are eles or necro full dps. That’s nearly impossible to see in first half part of EU servers. Commander are so important to simply go full dps and be the first to die.
I’ve seen in a lot of videos there are like 4, 5 or more orange swords on minimap. That is very difficult to see on Eu servers.

All this is about pug commanders, like KT ones, on eu servers with quite coverage. Of course in dedicated guilds this doesn’t happen, and in lower eu servers the playstyle is different.
At first, I founded a lot of builds from NA players useless, while seeing people amazed with them. It wasn’t after seeing a lot of videos that I understood wvw is not played in the same way in both server groups.

@SrebX DE is a personal preference and I only use it to roll twice and use Distortion. Phantasmal Fury is a great alternative, and you can also use 30/20/0/20 and take focus trait or Restorative Mantras.
I first started 30/20/0/20, but with new changes, Protected mantras will grant +600 toughness and I find it more useful.
Also, illusions die instantly only when the zerg is not compacted. For what I’ve seen, this tent to happen a lot in NA servers. The photos are an example of the power of iZerker.

Not to derail this thread, but NA(specifically higher tiers like T1) most definitely DOES have large ZvZ fights. No clue where you got the impression that all of NA runs havoc(usually we think that of EU); anyways, proof if needed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhpJtN6Lu7I

Honestly you seem VERY misinformed. Perhaps you’re watching very low ranked NA videos or GvG? dunno

Ansau.7326:

@GOSU That clearly shows how much wvw videos you have seen. My opinion is based on what I’ve seen after facing servers from VS to AG (13 servers) for a year, and a bunch of videos from servers like Blackgate to Dragonband (pugs, guilds roaming…).
First, there are tons of ZvZ EU videos. My guild uploads 1 every week, and I’m in a server based on guilds.
Second, one thing is playing with blobs, an another totally different is basing your playstyle in blobs as a server. There are some eu servers which, in certain periods of the day, they only run a 80 man blob jumping the maps, mine included.
NA servers seems to have less packed pug zergs. In EU, we play with ball zergs, 50 people in the same point following the orders of a commander.
In EU, the commander is a leader. It is common he decides when to attack, which, how much, when and where siege to put, when to put water and fire fields… I’ve seen NA videos where the commanders are eles or necro full dps. That’s nearly impossible to see in first half part of EU servers. Commander are so important to simply go full dps and be the first to die.
I’ve seen in a lot of videos there are like 4, 5 or more orange swords on minimap. That is very difficult to see on Eu servers.

All this is about pug commanders, like KT ones, on eu servers with quite coverage. Of course in dedicated guilds this doesn’t happen, and in lower eu servers the playstyle is different.
At first, I founded a lot of builds from NA players useless, while seeing people amazed with them. It wasn’t after seeing a lot of videos that I understood wvw is not played in the same way in both server groups.

@SrebX DE is a personal preference and I only use it to roll twice and use Distortion. Phantasmal Fury is a great alternative, and you can also use 30/20/0/20 and take focus trait or Restorative Mantras.
I first started 30/20/0/20, but with new changes, Protected mantras will grant +600 toughness and I find it more useful.
Also, illusions die instantly only when the zerg is not compacted. For what I’ve seen, this tent to happen a lot in NA servers. The photos are an example of the power of iZerker.

Sure those are nice numbers, but a warrior can just auto spam 1 and outdamage your iZerker in two swings. Meanwhile your zerker dies and the warrior keeps spamming. Nice numbers in a still frame, but no comparison.