Guild Wars 2

You do realize that swiftness is movement speed right? I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

I think you’re the one that needs to work on it. In my very first post I"m talking about movement speed only. Not how fast I attack. Then you come in saying That’s quickness. That is not quickness. I corrected you and said, once more, I’m talking about movement speed only. And you, once again, attempt to correct something that wasn’t wrong in the first place.

Quickness: Double attack speed

Swiftness: increase movement speed by 35%

Where are you getting this attack speed from? Where did I start talking about it? After you brought it up. Nobody is talking about attack speed except for you.

You want increased movement speed without using the focus. I want increased movement speed on a thief without using a utility slot. I am telling you that increased movement speed is a boon, it is not something that people are entitled to just have. Every class has ways to increase movement speed at the cost of something.

You need to go back and re-read.

Ah, I see where you got quickness from. I typed swiftness, not quickness, on my post up there. I didn’t see that.

I am talking ONLY about movement speed, though. As I said I do NOT want to be forced to use a focus just so I move faster. I want it to be a utility, like other classes. I want to walk faster, I while still being able to have my Greatsword/Staff build, not being forced to swap for focus just to move a little faster.

D/D Ele from launch and love everything about it, and finally got around to making my predetermined second char (Mesmer). Honestly I understand why mesmers don’t have something like this, but requires so much effort just to do what other classes can do easily. Kinda annoying you have to have a specific setup, but 25% is too much. Based on the entire kit, any passive MS (not including clones) would result in nerfs in other places IMO.

To the person saying there’s no problem when in a group, that’s kinda redundant since all in group should be speeding everyone up anyway. It’s like saying it easier to come back from being downed in a group compared to solo =="

Not ever class will have a passive speed boost just as not every class will not be getting portals. Giving every class the same abilities is not how to balance things. Technically, it would actually balance things, but it would make every class the same, which would be pretty dumb.

Everyone gets their own way of increasing movement and some will be better at it than others. The Mesmer already has so many other abilities that other classes don’t have.

Dog.1472:

Not ever class will have a passive speed boost just as not every class will not be getting portals. Giving every class the same abilities is not how to balance things. Technically, it would actually balance things, but it would make every class the same, which would be pretty dumb.

I disagree. In any other MMO game I played, they had equal movement speed on all classes. Different classes with different skills, but same movement speed. The only exceptions were things like blink or teleport. It wasn’t making every class the same, and it wasn’t dumb.

What is dumb in GW2 is having a lots of different weapons available, but in WvW everyone is forced to use one specific weapon with speed, otherwise he’s at a disadvantage.

Every mesmer in WvW is running with focus. That’s not variety, that’s monoculture.

Or in your words:

… but it would make every class the same, which would be pretty dumb.

Snoxx.7943:

Dog.1472:

Not ever class will have a passive speed boost just as not every class will not be getting portals. Giving every class the same abilities is not how to balance things. Technically, it would actually balance things, but it would make every class the same, which would be pretty dumb.

I disagree. In any other MMO game I played, they had equal movement speed on all classes. Different classes with different skills, but same movement speed. The only exceptions were things like blink or teleport. It wasn’t making every class the same, and it wasn’t dumb.

What is dumb in GW2 is having a lots of different weapons available, but in WvW everyone is forced to use one specific weapon with speed, otherwise he’s at a disadvantage.

Every mesmer in WvW is running with focus. That’s not variety, that’s monoculture.

Or in your words:

… but it would make every class the same, which would be pretty dumb.

Other games I’ve played classes had different movement speed options: some more than others, some none at all unless you wanted to sacrifice something to get it. And where do you see every mesmer in wvw running focus? Because I can tell you there’s a lot of us who aren’t lol half of BS is mesmers.

Heck, why not make it “blind foes near your target”. Then we can have 3 identical signets on 3 different classes! The movement speed signets in general were bad design, the buffing of the ele, ranger, and necro ones was a lazy fix and adding another signet of that type won’t help things.

If they made it so that the out of combat speed bonus didn’t stack with swiftness or movement speed signets (it’s implemented in reverse, where it’s a penalty) then we would stop having to worry about swapping weapon sets/signets/skills/armor to get decent movement speed. You’d be fastest with the swiftness buff, but it wouldn’t be different whether or not you were in combat. Then you can start analyzing each class’s swiftness options according to balancing goals instead of having a situation that’s such a mess.

Movement speed is not a requirement. If you feel required to have a focus, that’s your problem. A focus is not a required weapon for a Mesmer.

Mesmers at a disadvantage? Come on. Mesmers are hands down one of the strongest classes in the game. When’s the last time you heard someone ask for a Ranger? Hey, we need your bear pet to help us skip an entire jumping puzzle or move the entire zerg into an ambush.

No, no and many times no.

Im glad none of you guys are devs on this game, every class needs a weakness, ours is speed. We are already strong as it is with many good builds at our disposal.

If you want speed, get rune of the centaur and focus, its almost 100% swiftness uptime

And folks wonder why I’ve always said that ANet created a really effed paradigm when they buffed move signets, across the board. Now: if you really want Thief to be the
“Master of Speed,” then they should’ve kept the 25% boost. Other classes should’ve
ranged from -say- 10-20%. Then you could toss Mesmers say 10-15%, without everyone and their bleeding mother crying “OP.”

Yet again, The Curse of Portal/TWarp strikes. Hell, Quickness -as an ability-
is another Can of Wyrms entire. And, I for one, would not argue if the game had
have been balanced without such an ability, for any class. As for Portals, let’s lay
off of that one, please. It’s sucked more nerfs than prostitutes inhale man-meat.
This without the talk over the past couple of months about the folk at ANet wanting
to share said mechanic on other classes. (Not that I’ll kitten, let an Engi or Necro go
through being the local Portalbot, they’ll be sick of it quick).

Clones: would be fine if: They possessed offhands, and weren’t foiled by a simple frigging trick like setting npc names off. Let alone moved somewhat like the caster.

Stealth: is getting shafted this next patch. Hello, “revealed!” Funny, since Mesmer Stealth tends to overwrite itself, in lieu of stacking like Thief’s Stealth. /shrug

As for blinking. Right. As any Thief player knows, there are a lot of Shadowstep options (some of which are Initiative-based, and lack an actual cooldown). So, let’s let that one lie.

Kazhiel.8194:

ODB.6891:

Kazhiel.8194:

ODB.6891:

It holds just as much water as it does for any other class that does have high mobility and out of combat reliable swiftness. Clearly the developers thought that ooc movement speed outside of waypoints was necessary, or they wouldn’t have given that to every other class.

Have you actually played any other classes? o_O

Have you? See what I did there? The answer is yes, I have a warrior, necromancer, guardian and elementalist..in addition to my mesmer. I am definitely enjoying my permanent 25% movement speed on my necro and ele. I am definitely enjoying my signet of rage on my warrior. I haven’t leveled my guardian because I got bored with it. Your argument on that front is moot as all of those classes have significant either on demand or persistent swiftness. On my warrior and necro, I even have the OPTION to swap in an offhand to grant me even more swiftness. Not the case on my mesmer as that offhand is my only real swiftness option (extremely unreliable signet). As far as other classes go…I have only testimonials on forums and wiki documentation to prove their out of combat mobility options. You forum criers are always overreacting to this issue. No one is asking for an in combat buff.

Yes. I have, I have one of everything except warrior, some classes have more speed, some have less. Every class has to give up something, whether it be having certain gear or utility, for swiftness. Mesmer is no different. Seriously, I get so sick and tired of all you pathetic crybabies non stop whining about not being able to zoom around a map and not have to give up anything to do it. Grow up kiddies, nothing in life is free, everything has trade offs. Quit thinking you’re entitled to everything.

Pretty sure you are the only one crying about this. Everyone else here has been pretty mature about this discussion…which is what adults do…discuss. I’m also pretty sure that’s what forums are designed for. Especially class forums…to give opinions about class direction and balance. If you actually have something relevant to say in regards to this issue that actually has some factual basis..go right ahead and say it..so far you have not contributed anything. You keep dodging the reality of the situation instead. Mesmers do give up things just like any other class does. Mesmer’s definitely do not deal as much direct or damage over time as some other classes (They are already planning on toning down shatter damage…current state of the game video). Otherwise, mesmers are one of the lower hp classes, light armor, and middle of the pack damage output. Mesmers are already being pigeon holed into specific (less than optimal rune sets) just to compensate for this issue. Not sure what else you expect them to give up? Get your facts straight before you post something like “and not have to give up anything to do it”. Mesmers currently give up the most of any class for this. Its just simple minded of you to expect no one to have an opinion on the extensive lengths a mesmer has to go to to attain out of combat swiftness like other classes….this a forum for opinions after all. Its pretty childish to get upset that people would have such an opinion. I find it odd personally that you take such a personal stake in preventing an obvious quality of life improvement that can’t do anything but make traveling across the map more convenient and equal with other classes. Are you one of those people that feels a need to make sure others can’t have something just because you don’t feel they should? That’s what’s pathetic if that’s the case.

ODB.6891:

Pretty sure you are the only one crying about this. Everyone else here has been pretty mature about this discussion…which is what adults do…discuss. I’m also pretty sure that’s what forums are designed for. Especially class forums…to give opinions about class direction and balance. If you actually have something relevant to say in regards to this issue that actually has some factual basis..go right ahead and say it..so far you have not contributed anything. You keep dodging the reality of the situation instead. Mesmers do give up things just like any other class does. Mesmer’s definitely do not deal as much direct or damage over time as some other classes (They are already planning on toning down shatter damage…current state of the game video). Otherwise, mesmers are one of the lower hp classes, light armor, and middle of the pack damage output. Mesmers are already being pigeon holed into specific (less than optimal rune sets) just to compensate for this issue. Not sure what else you expect them to give up? Get your facts straight before you post something like “and not have to give up anything to do it”. Mesmers currently give up the most of any class for this. Its just simple minded of you to expect no one to have an opinion on the extensive lengths a mesmer has to go to to attain out of combat swiftness like other classes….this a forum for opinions after all. Its pretty childish to get upset that people would have such an opinion. I find it odd personally that you take such a personal stake in preventing an obvious quality of life improvement that can’t do anything but make traveling across the map more convenient and equal with other classes. Are you one of those people that feels a need to make sure others can’t have something just because you don’t feel they should? That’s what’s pathetic if that’s the case.

The only thing I’m complaining about is that you people can’t be happy with the speed options you have and are always crying more more more. And make up your mind, opinions or facts? You seem to want to use the words interchangeably to suit your argument. Your opinions are not facts and your opinions are not based in reality lol. Maybe you should actually go play the game for a while. Re: state of the game video: They never said they were going to tone down shatter damage, go watch the video again, try to pay attention.

Dog.1472:

Iruwen.3164:

Dog.1472:

As someone who mostly plays Elementalist, I would think I’d be pretty spoiled in terms of mobility.

Iruwen.3164:

I’ll happily give you some of my mobility in exchange for vapor form, the most annoying downed skill in existence.

I don’t think you understand the point I was making so I’ll rephrase. As someone who mostly plays as an Elementalist, but is now currently playing a Mesmer, I still don’t feel that the Mesmer is slow.

ODB.6891:

blah blah blah

And you don’t seem to understand that your harmless little OOC speed boost would be abused in combat. If Mesmers had a constant speed boost, they would be the masters of escaping, even better than Elementalists. Throw up clones, stealth and be long gone before anyone even knows where you are.

I’m having a hard time believing that people are actually complaining about not being able to cross the map faster. Mesmers can keep up swiftness most of the time on their own, and if you’re running with a zerg, you will always have swiftness.

I like the comment about the 30/30/30/30/30 build. You guys want absolutely everything at the same time.

Question…what happens when you have a passive movement speed buff and combat starts? Answer…movement speed decreases. What are mesmers having to do to "keep up swiftness MOST of the time? The answer is sell the soul of their first born…relative to other classes just taking a trait or a utility. I’m having a hard time believing that there are so many dedicated haters out there that are making this to be such a controversial issue.

I’m not really hating the Mesmer, I’m currently playing one. I liked it enough to level it up, and I think it’s a pretty amazing class. It’s the fact that people think this class needs to be even better that boggles my mind.

Dog.1472:

I’m not really hating the Mesmer, I’m currently playing one. I liked it enough to level it up, and I think it’s a pretty amazing class. It’s the fact that people think this class needs to be even better that boggles my mind.

Well, that’s the thing, Dog. We all merely want to see how to make the class the best it
can be. Problems arise when we all disagree on something, is all. And, yes, Mesmer is bloody amazing. We just have certain issues (Trait/Weapon/etc) that require tweaking.

Kazhiel.8194:

The only thing I’m complaining about is that you people can’t be happy with the speed options you have and are always crying more more more. And make up your mind, opinions or facts? You seem to want to use the words interchangeably to suit your argument. Your opinions are not facts and your opinions are not based in reality lol. Maybe you should actually go play the game for a while. Re: state of the game video: They never said they were going to tone down shatter damage, go watch the video again, try to pay attention.

People tend not to be happy with crappy and limited options..go figure. Doesn’t take a genius to see that. People tend to look at what the next person has or in this case watch the next person go zooming past them and compare…that’s human nature..also not hard to tell. If you don’t like human nature…you might just be on the wrong planet.

If you want to consider everything I say an opinion..go right ahead. I’ll keep my opinions constructive at this point. My opinion is that there should be more than one out of combat reliable swiftness option for mesmers. I don’t mind sacrificing something for some movement speed…I already do that by taking the focus, despite not particularly liking that as an off hand choice. I’d much prefer to free up my off hand slot to use a pistol instead, but there lies my current issue with our only reliable ooc swiftness being tied to the focus. Centaur runes are a crappy way to get swiftness…putting your heal on cool down at a possibly inopportune time and having to deal with a sub par rune choice…can’t get more crappy than that. I choose a compromise in that respect and take Pack runes instead…at least i don’t have to burn my heal and I still get a intermittent group buff + increased swiftness duration.

What is not an opinion..and is indeed fact..is that mesmers do give up the absolute most to get decent swiftness duration. Another fact is that mesmers do have the most limited swiftness options. I honestly can live with it the way that it is, but I’m not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend its great like some here want us to do. I don’t see this getting changed very soon if at all…very low on the totem pole of issues.

I find it comical that you would even make a comment about playing the game instead of being on the forums …when here you are repeatedly on the forums hating. I assume your target of the word “opinion” that I used is in regards to my previous post saying to contribute something factual. That was not to say that opinions don’t count as well…that was in reference to blatant falsehoods you were presenting…saying that mesmers don’t sacrifice or give up anything. In regards to the state of the game video, they did specifically mention mesmer shatters and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that means nerf in developer speak. Which is why it sparked such a reaction in these same forums. Maybe you should pay attention …to the track record of devs when they mention something like that and see what ends up in a game patch.

No support. The Mesmer isn’t a sprinter. We distort space to travel. Blink. Illusionary Leap/Swap. Phase retreat.

If you want the convenience for traveling out of combat, a focus switch can be done extremely quickly, and the only sacrifice you have to make is the 10c to buy a focus. Not to mention it goes to all of your buddies also.

Dog.1472:

Iruwen.3164:

Dog.1472:

As someone who mostly plays Elementalist, I would think I’d be pretty spoiled in terms of mobility.

Iruwen.3164:

I’ll happily give you some of my mobility in exchange for vapor form, the most annoying downed skill in existence.

I don’t think you understand the point I was making so I’ll rephrase. As someone who mostly plays as an Elementalist, but is now currently playing a Mesmer, I still don’t feel that the Mesmer is slow.

ODB.6891:

blah blah blah

And you don’t seem to understand that your harmless little OOC speed boost would be abused in combat. If Mesmers had a constant speed boost, they would be the masters of escaping, even better than Elementalists. Throw up clones, stealth and be long gone before anyone even knows where you are.

I’m having a hard time believing that people are actually complaining about not being able to cross the map faster. Mesmers can keep up swiftness most of the time on their own, and if you’re running with a zerg, you will always have swiftness.

I like the comment about the 30/30/30/30/30 build. You guys want absolutely everything at the same time.

So because we may not always run with a zerg and say run with a team…. of a ranger/ele/thief (none of them can keep you supplied with 100% swiftness close but not full) and you don’t want to run the focus cuz it really doesn’t fit your play style… Here is what happens you get the switftness… but during the down time they just zoom ahead and then no swiftness so then its like KITTEN I guess I’ll equip a focus…. Only a guardian I know has this problem but the fact that they are built for moving with zergs help and they get less downtime on swiftness than we do… It is a simple quality of life issue… That is it… And also given the current state that our greatsword is in we CANNOT CATCH RUNNERS… That used to be a very good way but now the phantasm misses most attacks so it’s cripple doesn’t last long enough to make an impact…. and other peoples OOC is already abused…. I mean we can’t even catch necromancers… wadupwitdat?

Dog.1472:

And you don’t seem to understand that your harmless little OOC speed boost would be abused in combat. If Mesmers had a constant speed boost, they would be the masters of escaping, even better than Elementalists. Throw up clones, stealth and be long gone before anyone even knows where you are.

I’m having a hard time believing that people are actually complaining about not being able to cross the map faster. Mesmers can keep up swiftness most of the time on their own, and if you’re running with a zerg, you will always have swiftness.

I like the comment about the 30/30/30/30/30 build. You guys want absolutely everything at the same time.

That’s why I made the signet of inspiration proposal, it would only work ooc. Nobody’s talking about combat runspeed. There’s absolutely no need to make mesmers inferior in this regard just because they have some nice utility.

PS: Kazhiel, I reported your posts. If you have an opinion, that’s fine, but stop insulting everybody in here constantly.

I keep seeing people say that guardian can oh so easily get tons of swiftness… but it’s not what people are making it out to be.

You can get it with utilities and the staff.

Utilities you’re giving up something for those… there are many better utilities for guardian when in actual combat…. and buffing utilities work better for AH builds. Not every guardian is AH. If you prefer solo type play meditations are far better. You need to be sending those boons to other players for AH’s heal to surpass the healing of monk’s focus.

The staff symbol is a bit unpredictable. You can easily pass through it and not get the buff because of how it pulses the swiftness buff. It helps groups get around as it gives everyone a chance to get that buff… but we’re talking solo play here.

Solo staff is a bad weapon for much of anything outside of pew pewing thorugh doors. Seriously, go try to kill some one with a staff. The damage is frekkin’ joke.

The 12 stacks of might is nice, but then you’ll want to swap back to your other weapon… and only having 1 weapon you’re using for damage makes you very predictable and easy to counter. It’s a bad idea.

If you’re out solo you don’t want to be swapping weapons around… it’s dangerous… especially when your swiftness symbol is tied to a support 2h weapon. At least on mesmer I can still keep my main hand weapon if I choose to use a focus.

Solo guardians are slow. Solo mesmers are also slow. Just deal with the slower ooc movement. Mesmers get a lot more in combat movement which more than makes up for it. I don’t know why anyone would want to trade any of mesmer’s amazing utilities for a 25% speed buff.

EasymodeX.4062:

But swiftness doesn’t stack with stacks.

I suppose it actually transfers ownership? So if you have 8s Swiftness on me, it says it’s from you. My SoI fires swiftness, I now have 21s Swiftness, owner of that boon is me.

And you’re right, the non-stacking nature of TC prevents it from being a “legit” speed boon.

Turbo Whale.1738:

If you want the convenience for traveling out of combat, a focus switch can be done extremely quickly, and the only sacrifice you have to make is the 10c to buy a focus. Not to mention it goes to all of your buddies also.

Ever tried switching to off-hand sword?

Easy way to fix this. Everyone runs at the same speed when out of combat. Swiftness and other movement bonuses should not stack with out of combat speed.

One major thing that people like Dog miss is what I brought up in my earlier post, something they probably ignore.

The other classes dont give up close to what mesmers have to give up in order to get speed or close to it. I also find it straight out laughable the people saying guardian staff is bad. It was semi decent pre patch, but after the patch its wonderful.

Mesmers MUST spec 20 points into a rather pointless tree, they have to equip 6 less than useful runes. Centaur is ok, but you need to waste heals to power it aswell as bonus #2 is wasted). Anything below that and you end up with less swiftness uptime than a guardian, 4 sec downtime if specced for 2h spec, but its there when needed without having to spend runes or traits on it.

Some classes have multiple ways to obtain permanent speed, either through swiftness or passive 25%. Many of them also just get it while gearing/speccing for other things without giving up anything. Example SoR or banner specced warriors.

It’s just that Mesmers give up too much for perma speed, they arent that much better than other classes and they lack in other areas to balance them compared to other classes combat efficiency.

Depending on spec the mesmer has to give up.

20 trait points worth of pow, prec+cdmg or shatter cd aswell as minor and major traits boosting their damage. Or 20 trait points worth of toughness or something that boosts their condition damage. It depends on spec.

What do they get? Phan retaliation, phan health (optional), phan buffs regen (trivial) and lower cd on focus plus feedback on the focus skills. Oh and they get a static phan (yay /sarcasm) with focus #5. And none of this gives them perma swiftness in return.

ODB.6891:

Dahkeus.8243:

Decked.8274:

Dahkeus.8243:

Decked.8274:

Dahkeus.8243:

Giving a 25% movement sig to mesmers doesn’t make any sense unless you truly believe that every class should have one.

ANet has said that Thieves should be the kings of mobility with rangers close behind, but it doesn’t make sense for mesmers to be the sprinters (they are, after all, a class dressed in ball room dresses and suits). Mesmer mobility is best illustrated by cunning, not pure physical prowess.

I’m not saying that every class needs a 25% Mov. Signet, what I’m saying is that Mesmers need an easier access to movement speed, wich all other classes already have, they will not be faster than these classes so I don’t see why are you calling them sprinters.

In a game where everything needs to be balanced, this is a small thing that is simply not balanced.

Are you saying that mesmers should be as mobile as thieves? In combat, we’re about as mobile with teleports and blinks and are only slower in terms of travel.

I was just suggesting a easier access to movement speed, something that is lacking to Mesmers, and you are already imagining a Mesmer vs Thief duel in your head.

This has nothing to do with duels. I wasn’t even specifically talking about PvP.

@ ODB: Necromancers have no teleports like mesmers and have crap for mobility, so a 25% sig isn’t making them into thieves. Ele mobility is ridiculous, but that’s a separate issue and I’m not defending it.

This game doesn’t have mounted movement, but it has waypoints everywhere. That argument doesn’t hold water.

It holds just as much water as it does for any other class that does have high mobility and out of combat reliable swiftness. Clearly the developers thought that ooc movement speed outside of waypoints was necessary, or they wouldn’t have given that to every other class. It appears that your arguments are the ones that do not hold water bro. Just for the fact that you keep talking about teleports as mobility…that does mean you are talking specifically about pvp. The argument has and will continue to be about ooc movement speed..not about pvp. That means travel without spending silver btw….like every other class can do easily.

Really?

Is this a troll post? Teleports are only PvP?

Ugh, come on. Every class has swiftness and just because not every class has 100% uptime on swiftness or a permanent 25% run speed boost doesn’t mean they NEED it. Being slightly slower than another class when running on your own isn’t gamebreaking or anything close, especially since there are so many AoE swiftness abilities.

And if you haven’t figured it out yet, you still travel distances quickly on a mesmer by using a focus for swiftness, then jumping ahead with blink and the 2 ability on the staff. Yes, you have to turn your character around quickly to utilize the staff for travel and it may take a bit of practice to pull this off effectively. I know, life is hard, but you can do it. Don’t give up!

RushUnplugged.7408:

Don’t you see the problem in having to make a build specifically to move faster?
Using 6 runes just to boost swiftness duration from focus is hardly optimal, when other professions run around with perma-swiftness or a plain boost without crippling themselves.

Poor argument because other classes don’t just get free speed boosts. They have to trait for it or use a utility slot. I’m sure you use all 3 of your utility slots already. So to equip a +speed signet you’d have to “cripple” yourself by dropping a skill in your build.

Everything comes with a cost.

Mesmers are basically Gimli:

I’m okay with that.

It wouldn’t feel so bad if the mesmer wasn’t described as a “magical duelist” that “shares some of the mobility of the thief.” Now guardians and engineers I can understand being a little slower than some of the other classes, since they were advertised as blockade units that control areas and other players’ movements instead of so much of their own. Though all classes, even engi and guard, should still be able to spec for mobility since it’s such an important role in wvw (and they can with less investment than the mesmer, esp engineer).

But based on certain dev comments during beta, I fully expected the mesmer to be one of the more mobile, faster classes, and along with stealth was one of the reasons I chose the class in the first place. To find that hype substantially unrepresented in the game is kind of like a slap in the face.

Iruwen.3164:

Carighan.6758:

Iruwen.3164:

Me too, better make Signet of Inspiration give only swiftness when out of combat.

That’d remove some rather neat functions like opening a surprise attack with Fury or starting with Aegis when jumped.

Those chances are so rare because the signet already is so unreliable that it’s pretty much a negligible occasion. It was just an example of how it could work though. The signets currently aren’t really balanced anyway, just compare the laughable utility of Signet of Domination compared to Signet of Midnight, and even the latter would be better off with 20% boon duration.

Dog.1472:

As someone who mostly plays Elementalist, I would think I’d be pretty spoiled in terms of mobility.

I’ll happily give you some of my mobility in exchange for vapor form, the most annoying downed skill in existence.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Temporal curtain grants the casters swiftness bonus to allies too, so that’s 18 seconds of run speed for all from me (here’s a possible clue as to why it doesn’t stack btw).

Even if it doesn’t stack intentionally, it should at least be replaced by new swiftness. Can’t even count how often I’ve been running over a temporal curtain with just one to three seconds of swiftness left. It’s counterintuitive, inconsistent and annoying.

That’d just introduce a new problem you’d complain about. Your freshly laid 18 seconds of swiftness would be replaced by some crap casters 4 second swiftness buff. Oh the QQ’s!

Gaiawolf.8261:

It wouldn’t feel so bad if the mesmer wasn’t described as a “magical duelist” that “shares some of the mobility of the thief.” Now guardians and engineers I can understand being a little slower than some of the other classes, since they were advertised as blockade units that control areas and other players’ movements instead of so much of their own. Though all classes, even engi and guard, should still be able to spec for mobility since it’s such an important role in wvw (and they can with less investment than the mesmer, esp engineer).

But based on certain dev comments during beta, I fully expected the mesmer to be one of the more mobile, faster classes, and along with stealth was one of the reasons I chose the class in the first place. To find that hype substantially unrepresented in the game is kind of like a slap in the face.

Mesmer is one of the most mobile classes while in combat… just not out of combat. More than a fair trade IMO.

But there is no need to limit our mobility to just combat. To force that restriction is just silly. I’m sorry I have no better word for it. No other class except guardian shares that distinction, but even they are not nearly as limited by it as us.

I’m sorry but not only is it completely unnecessary, it goes against their manifesto that class abilities should be straightforward and not overly complex. No, its not directly an overly complex ability, but it is counter intuitive to so agile but so kitten slow in any fantasy theme.

Seras.5702:

Poor argument because other classes don’t just get free speed boosts. They have to trait for it or use a utility slot. I’m sure you use all 3 of your utility slots already. So to equip a +speed signet you’d have to “cripple” yourself by dropping a skill in your build.

Everything comes with a cost.

So? Where did I say I want extra speed for free?
On my thief I’d gladly use Shadowstep, and use it like I use Blink on Mes, but I’d have to give up movement signet (or one of the others, but I use those more often for party utility). On thief, I’m trading in-combat mobility for overall speed.

What me and the others would like, isn’t “GIMME FREE SPEEDZ”, it’s an option that doesn’t involve using focus. Keyword: OPTION.
And for the record, I do use a focus. Even though I’d prefer a pistol for the quicker burst and stun.

A 25% mov speed signet doesn’t even equal perma-swiftness. Good luck catching a perma-swift Ele or War with just a signet.

Hell, I’d settle for a 15, even 10% boost, but Anet seems to have eliminated those in favour of across-the-board 25% ones. They even gave it to Ele, who’d arguably would need it less than anyone.

Ross Biddle.2367:

That’d just introduce a new problem you’d complain about. Your freshly laid 18 seconds of swiftness would be replaced by some crap casters 4 second swiftness buff. Oh the QQ’s!

Only replace if new swiftness >= old swiftness. That was hard eh? They’re tracking the duration and source of every boon and condition anyway, no problem.

Runes of the Centar is what I recomend

Dahkeus.8243:

@ ODB: Necromancers have no teleports like mesmers and have crap for mobility, so a 25% sig isn’t making them into thieves.

Oh really? No teleports like Mesmer eh?

• Summon Flesh Worm – Not only does it give you a pet that can attack, but it also gives you your own point to teleport back to. It can also be cast and then instantly teleported to to be treated as a teleport.
• Spectral Walk – your own personal teleport … except rather than being able to also teleport others, it has 30 sec less cooldown and gives you swiftness with a base duration of 30 seconds.

Mesmer has what?

• Blink – just a 900 range teleport & stunbreaker (your worm is 1,200 range, a pet w/ range attacks, and you poison anyone at the location you ported to)
• Portal – place it at one location, run to another location, have to be standing on the portal to portal to the other one (spectral walk you start it and move as you please … port if you want during the duration … enjoy swiftness

I’d stay they aren’t exactly the same but you definitely have things like them.

Rune of the centaur still doesnt give 100% uptime AND you need to put your heal on CD and use an inferior type of heal to put up swiftness each 12-13 seconds (the actual cd of Centaur).

It would be OK in PvE for farming etc, but far from OK in WvW.

It’s just that the “heavier classes” like guardian, warrior, necro, ranger, engineer are all much more mobile outside of combat than mesmers just like the two “lighter classes” mentalist and thief are.

Mesmer is the only class without a viable speed option. All others get it with their spec/gear or by just swapping a signet. If you go for the speed option on Mesmer you dont only gimps yourself in general, you effectivly waste 20 traits while under water, lock up 20 trait point for cases when you dont need the speed (siege/def and instances), where other classes can just swap 1 signet or a trait(engineer) for something more useful. Or as the warrior that just gets it as a bonus when aiming for perma might/fury.

I would be fine with a tuning of the focus. Make the phant useful, maybe an illusionary ranger with a bow instead of axes (currently it mirrors axe #5 ranger skill), something similar to duelist maybe and lower its base CD to 20 sec. Increase the swiftness duration to maybe 20sec on a 25sec cd, this would with one swiftness duration rune result in a 24sec duration on a 25 sec cd (no interfearance with the non stackable effect).

It would also allow those with traited focus to keep permament swiftness, not unreasonable for spending 20 traits on it compared to engineers who spend 10.

Whoa now. Let’s not aim at the phantasm. Stay on topic. Changing the phantasm doesn’t change the speed of Mesmers.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Rune of the centaur still doesnt give 100% uptime AND you need to put your heal on CD and use an inferior type of heal to put up swiftness each 12-13 seconds (the actual cd of Centaur).

I would be fine with a tuning of the focus. Make the phant useful, maybe an illusionary ranger with a bow instead of axes (currently it mirrors axe #5 ranger skill), something similar to duelist maybe and lower its base CD to 20 sec. Increase the swiftness duration to maybe 20sec on a 25sec cd, this would with one swiftness duration rune result in a 24sec duration on a 25 sec cd (no interfearance with the non stackable effect).

It would also allow those with traited focus to keep permament swiftness, not unreasonable for spending 20 traits on it compared to engineers who spend 10.

There is nothing wrong with the iWarden phantasm as it is. No need to bring up changing it.
If you want to change something to help Mesmers with their speed buff, give Staff #5 Chaos Storm an increased time out of combat guaranteed speed buff, Keeping the random 3s speed buff if in combat.

Yeah, the only phants that needs some rethinking are the mage, and maybe disenchanter. Personally, I don’t think a +25% sig is necessary, but since many other classes have it (or similar options), it seems a “mobile” class like the mesmer should have something comparable.

Personally, I’d be happy if our illusion abilities were made so we can use them OOC. Then we could use iLeap as a dash and Compounding Celerity with a few tweaks. iLeap would need to be a bit more responsive or maybe longer range, and Celerity could seriously use a buff.

If this is really a big issue for you, feel free to actually try another class. Mesmers are by far one fo the best classes in the game both in PvP AND PvE. That’s not something almost any other class can say. Warriors are beasts on dungeon dps, but are lackluster in PvP. Thieves are great in PvP, but they’re squishier versions of warriors in PvE that can’t stack might nearly as well. Engineers arguable, but they run on a 1-shot wonder gimmick build for the most part in PvP and in PvE, they’re great at conditions, but still inferior to a group running with only a mesmer, warriors and maybe a guardian. Guardians are beasts, I won’t deny. Eles are great in PvP, but meh in PvE. Necros…can do conditions almost as well as Engineers? Rangers are subpar at everything (except maybe SPvP), although everyone suddenly thinks that trap builds in SPvP are OP because everyone forgot about them and now doesn’t know how to counter them.

If you’re really upset that you are so troubled because you don’t have 25% run speed that doesn’t stack with swiftness, then I personally invite you to reroll to anything else so that you can realize just how good you have it.

Mesmers are an amazing class, particularly at this point in the game. Sure, there may be a few things that would be nice to have, but there are already enough reasons for other ANet to consider bringing a nerf to the class as it is.

I agree, Mesmer is pretty great. I love mine.

Engineer is the only class in the game with access to bleeding, burning, poison, and condition damage using just their class skills and they aren’t really short on any of them in a condition build.

Necromancer is the only class with multiple ways to give back conditions on their self to their foe … and the only class that can spread conditions from one target to other targets nearby.

Those are your top 2 condition damage capabilities in my mind.

I agree that it feel terrible playing a mesmer in WvW while all my alt have a 25% speed passive skill.

Even if i manually swtich to focus to buff my fat kitten

@Dahkeus:
No one is really saying mesmers suck, or in a bad place overall. In fact most of the reasoning for desiring more speed for the class comes from players that do play other classes – and so we realize just how painful it can be to move around as a slug. Think about it. If you only played mesmer, then you’d probably be ignorantly content to move with “normal” speed.

As some posters have said, it’s a quality of life issue that really doesn’t have any basis. It wouldn’t make us OP (our other abilities did that in the past, but like you I believe we are in a good place right now overall), and it fits our theme.

In short, if we like the mesmer’s theme and gameplay in combat (which let’s face it is the majority of this game’s focus), why should we be pushed towards playing another class just because we suffer from unnecessary out of combat frustrations, especially when it can prevent us from getting there in time to enjoy an event/battle/etc and presents only a mild balance issue at most?

EDIT: Also, no one here is saying “Anet, don’t work on other classes; just give us speed.” The issues other classes have should also be addressed to make this game the best it can for players of every class.

@Gaiawolf
I don’t assume that the people here are complaining because they think mesmers are underpowered or anything like that. I do, however, think that a lot of people here take that for granted since they don’t see how a minor weakness in one part of the game is offset by being amazing in every other aspect (well, except for dealing conditions).

I’m coming from the perspective that I believe in class balance for a solid game and I believe that part of that comes from not having 1 class that is the best at everything. Mesmers are already pretty kitten close to being in that place as it is.

Dahkeus.8243:

I do, however, think that a lot of people here take that for granted since they don’t see how a minor weakness in one part of the game is offset by being amazing in every other aspect

Because it is wrong. An advantage in combat or utility doesn’t have to be balanced by a disadvantage in mobility, other classes have to be balanced to be en par in these aspects if they’re not. Just like mesmers should be balanced to the same degree of out of combat movement speed. Especially since exactly nobody would be negatively affected by that change. Balancing means versatility at equal powers, not being partially broken to make up for a completely unrelated advantage.
And we’re far from being “amazing in every other aspect”, almost all classes have great and much needed abilities, except a few which are specifically broken, well known to be broken and being worked on (namely rangers). Mesmers can’t do everything and especially not at the same time, many people seem to forget that we heavily rely on how we’re traited, which makes the class really interesting but not as versatile within the limits of a single build. And we’re still “broken” in several aspects as well.

Daemonne.5018:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Rune of the centaur still doesnt give 100% uptime AND you need to put your heal on CD and use an inferior type of heal to put up swiftness each 12-13 seconds (the actual cd of Centaur).

I would be fine with a tuning of the focus. Make the phant useful, maybe an illusionary ranger with a bow instead of axes (currently it mirrors axe #5 ranger skill), something similar to duelist maybe and lower its base CD to 20 sec. Increase the swiftness duration to maybe 20sec on a 25sec cd, this would with one swiftness duration rune result in a 24sec duration on a 25 sec cd (no interfearance with the non stackable effect).

It would also allow those with traited focus to keep permament swiftness, not unreasonable for spending 20 traits on it compared to engineers who spend 10.

There is nothing wrong with the iWarden phantasm as it is. No need to bring up changing it.
If you want to change something to help Mesmers with their speed buff, give Staff #5 Chaos Storm an increased time out of combat guaranteed speed buff, Keeping the random 3s speed buff if in combat.

Chaos Storm is on such a long CD, adding a swiftness to it that can be used outside of combat would keep it on CD pre combat, the place where it is most useful.

I still strongly think that either buffing the swiftness duration on F#4 or making a passive 25% with a new signet. 20 sec duration on a 25sec cd would be acceptable. I could live with the focus if that were to happen.

And well I’m glad you enjoy iWarden even though its horribly bugged. It might work with a shatter spec, but really not in a phantasm spec (yes those actually exsist) since he will do nothing useful. Easily avoidable predictable damage, never moves, not even between his skills unless the enemy is out of LoS. But thats for a different topic. My suggestion was just one to make focus more appealing since the majority hates it and only uses it for the limited speed.

Iruwen.3164:

Dahkeus.8243:

I do, however, think that a lot of people here take that for granted since they don’t see how a minor weakness in one part of the game is offset by being amazing in every other aspect

Because it is wrong. An advantage in combat or utility doesn’t have to be balanced by a disadvantage in mobility, other classes have to be balanced to be en par in these aspects if they’re not. Just like mesmers should be balanced to the same degree of out of combat movement speed. Especially since exactly nobody would be negatively affected by that change. Balancing means versatility at equal powers, not being partially broken to make up for a completely unrelated advantage.
And we’re far from being “amazing in every other aspect”, almost all classes have great and much needed abilities, except a few which are specifically broken, well known to be broken and being worked on (namely rangers). Mesmers can’t do everything and especially not at the same time, many people seem to forget that we heavily rely on how we’re traited, which makes the class really interesting but not as versatile within the limits of a single build. And we’re still “broken” in several aspects as well.

Outside of maybe Guardian, mesmer is the one class that everyone wants at least one of in every dungeon.

This is the same for WvW groups since Feedback, Time Warp, and Portal are godly in that setting.

sPvP is a bit more balanced for mesmers, but it’s also the most balanced aspect of the game in terms of class, but even then, mesmers are one of the top classes (feel free to check out the survey on GW2Guru regarding the weakest class. Mesmers are tied for last with Guardians: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/1077-community-highlight-of-guild-wars-2-pvp-survey/).

Mesmers are top of the line in EVERY aspect of the game, except maybe when it comes to travelling distances by foot, because in combat, our mobility is completely awesome. Even out of combat, it’s still not that far behind, especially when so much swiftness cast by other people is AoE.

But its a bad form of balancing because it doesn’t affect the core gameplay and just adds frustration to the players. Iruwen is spit on here. The relationship between our speed and combat prowess is the same as saying that since guardians are such great bunkers, dps, and control units, but they can no longer use gates and WP, only much less extreme, obvious, and ridiculous. Same relationship, though. None.