Guild Wars 2

rly? Whoa. I want an apology for the Mesmer breaking. Admitting is the first step for improvement^^

we get nerfs like every patch xD i still believe that HoT will be our savior…but i smell that Anet will be like: you get your shield, and you’ll like it kitten!

nDroid.8190:

we get nerfs like every patch xD i still believe that HoT will be our savior…but i smell that Anet will be like: you get your shield, and you’ll like it kitten!

I still don’t know if a shield will help us.
Shields are always more defensive weapons… We already have 2 good defensive offhand weapons, fokus and torch. I’d really like the shield to be offensive (like gs being a range weapon) and concentrate on AoE. A vortex like skill would be nice to gather enemies to a specific spot.

that’s kinda my point…with the staff which in my opinion is one of if not the best defensive weapon in the game and already having focus as an offhand why the hell would i want a shield? if anything id prefer a dual pistol. Hopefully, and i say HOPEFULLY they wont pull another crap like ranged GS and make it something like mainhand shield. IF it’s an offhand weapon what they could do to compensate is, besides tweaking existing skills, remove the phantasm casting skills and put something VIABLE instead. In the beginning phantasms and clones got nerfed to the ground because “The AI had too much damage output” (clones used to cast BF). Considering that to use our “burst” we need to spend some good 8seconds casting phantasms, spending trait points into clone generating or even dodging without necessity in order to use the skills… Now 8 seconds is quite a lot and most of the time, in PvE, the mob doesnt even last that long unless its a boss and half the time your 1st clone dies. In PvP you basically have to waste dodges to set your burst up which is easily dodged and then you’re basically screwed because you just used your dodges to make clones…oh well

What I’m also hoping for is Equality for the specializations:
Everyone getting 5 new weaponskills. (Was there any statement by arenanet?)
It does not seem fair when ranger gets a staff, necro a gs and engineer a hammer which is two handed and giving 5 new skills and we mesmers end up with a shield giving us 2 skills (one possibly being a phantasm).

Me Games Ma.8426:

What I’m also hoping for is Equality for the specializations:
Everyone getting 5 new weaponskills. (Was there any statement by arenanet?)
It does not seem fair when ranger gets a staff, necro a gs and engineer a hammer which is two handed and giving 5 new skills and we mesmers end up with a shield giving us 2 skills (one possibly being a phantasm).

Calling it now. We only get the shield. :|

Me Games Ma.8426:

What I’m also hoping for is Equality for the specializations:
Everyone getting 5 new weaponskills. (Was there any statement by arenanet?)
It does not seem fair when ranger gets a staff, necro a gs and engineer a hammer which is two handed and giving 5 new skills and we mesmers end up with a shield giving us 2 skills (one possibly being a phantasm).

No, there wasn’t any statement, and since when has Anet made a point out of being fair, reasonable, or intelligent with balance decisions?

Fay.2357:

No, there wasn’t any statement, and since when has Anet made a point out of being fair, reasonable, or intelligent with balance decisions?

I only said what I’m hoping for not what I think Anet will do.
I think we will only get a shield.
IF we happen to get 2 weapons (main and off), we get flamed extremly hard for getting better options → Anet will revert the changes and we will end up being able only to equip both of the new weapons together or not at all…

nDroid.8190:

a couple days after the might buff the devs were apologizing for “breaking” the game lol

Pretty much the biggest slap in the face Anet has done to any class.

Giving us shields when we have too many off hands (2 of which are defensive), too few main hands and Staff already while the other classes are getting weapons they asked for is the second.

Let’s just hope they do well with the specialization design.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Let’s just hope they do well with the specialization design.

ROLF

Someone mentioned Ether Feast is our only viable health skill. For last days I have stared how this skill works in practice. In WvW, the health may drop fast – I have soldier gear + dolyak runes for their toughness. The same has happened in PvE too.

Typical case is that the health drops under 20%, and Ether Feast increases the health only to 25%. E.g., we had 10v10 fight in a camp and I could not fight because I had to try avoid the enemy and use all my invisibility skills while waiting the EF to come out of cooldown.

In the same camp fight I had targeted an ele. Someone else did damage to ele. Ele’s health dropped to 90% but immediately and fast raised back to 100%. This repeated every two seconds or so.

In some other random 1v1 fight, ele did not loose health at all. Health bar was solid 100%. At least I tried to do damage.

AnniMira.2506:

Someone mentioned Ether Feast is our only viable health skill. For last days I have stared how this skill works in practice. In WvW, the health may drop fast – I have soldier gear + dolyak runes for their toughness. The same has happened in PvE too.

Typical case is that the health drops under 20%, and Ether Feast increases the health only to 25%. E.g., we had 10v10 fight in a camp and I could not fight because I had to try avoid the enemy and use all my invisibility skills while waiting the EF to come out of cooldown.

In the same camp fight I had targeted an ele. Someone else did damage to ele. Ele’s health dropped to 90% but immediately and fast raised back to 100%. This repeated every two seconds or so.

In some other random 1v1 fight, ele did not loose health at all. Health bar was solid 100%. At least I tried to do damage.

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

So let me get this straight: ether feast heals – without any clone – about 5-6k, and you say it’s 5% of your total health? That would put your max health at around 100k

Another problem with PVT (Soldier) gear is that you have a lot of power, but no precision or ferocity, so you basically hit like a wet noodle, and elementalists (I assume he was running dagger/dagger?) have lots of regen/healing to compensate for the small health pool.

If you want you can PM me your build (gear, traits, etc) or contact me in game and we can try to work on it

While I think general balance impacts somewhat, I think the greatest decider of these numbers is how odd or unusual the class is. Like, in every game I’ve ever played Warrior will be the most played class, no matter how good it is. The only contenders are a ranger class and a paladin class, and sometimes a mage/traditional spellcaster, although like I said this is mostly based on two decades of internet observations related to these games, so it’s not exact science…

However, I’d not at all be surprised if Necromancer, engineer & mesmer were the three least played classes in GW2.

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

Ross Biddle.2367:

zinkz.7045:

Indrea.7803:

Mesmer have been nerfed too much in these years, compared to the other professions that received buffs constantly.

Some mesmer nerfs were unwarranted, however the idea that other professions have recieved constant buffs is total nonsense, thief has had more nerfs than mesmer, engi for the first 12-15 months was the most nerfed class in the game, etc.

It’s like one man has been convicted of many minor offenses, and another man convicted of a single capital crime. The man with the many minor convictions suffers a string of minor punishments. They are plentiful to be sure, but the degree of his suffering is relatively low. He may be mistaken thinking he has been punished a lot, or to much, due to the quantity.
Meanwhile Mr Capital received a bullet to the head. It’s a single punishment, no where near the multitude of the minor guy. Never the less it’s a death sentence.

Thief is Mr Minor.
Mesmer is Mr Capital.

Don’t even get people started on Mes vs Thief.

agree 100%.

I hope the expansion will buff Mesmer.

[/quote]Thief is Mr Minor. Mesmer is Mr Capital.

Don’t even get people started on Mes vs Thief.[/quote]

Something is brewing alright…
just wait & see…

Mesmer Around the World,
Project Vendetta
Be patient.. it’s coming!

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

So full of crap, I wonder if you do high end pve at all. The only reliable reflection you have is feedback. iWarden gets killed easily in fractal 50, or if mobs move out of its range or the mob it was casted on dies, so goes the use of iwarden. You can trait curtain if you want to gut what little damage you already had though.

Guardian will protect his group with a longer lasting wall, and a spirit shield that absorbs projectiles for well over 20+ seconds. In fact, by the time the shield ends, the wall is back up.

Of course you’re not gonna touch WvW or endgame pve or open wolrd pve. Literally every point you’ve made was completely irrelevant since I had already granted mesmers only perform in skirmishes and duels (and spvp qualifies as skirmishes).

Too bad the aspects of the game that are not spvp happen to be far larger and more populated than said spvp format, and some mesmers have no interest in WvW roaming or spvp.

Mesmers are plain crap in PvE and in WvW larger scale battles they’re little more than veil/portal bots. Shatter is such laughable damage next to lava font or meteor shower let alone a couple of pistol whip cleaves or melee frontline hammer combos, and good luck with those illusions living long enough after they spawn to get a 3 clone shatter on a zerg, not that it will do much for your 6-7k iberserker hitting a group of people when it’s cd is over 10 seconds while an ele is pelting groups people with 3k fireballs left and right and 5k meteors and 4-5k ice spikes with far more frequency.

Zenith.7301:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

So full of crap, I wonder if you do high end pve at all. The only reliable reflection you have is feedback. iWarden gets killed easily in fractal 50, or if mobs move out of its range or the mob it was casted on dies, so goes the use of iwarden. You can trait curtain if you want to gut what little damage you already had though.

Guardian will protect his group with a longer lasting wall, and a spirit shield that absorbs projectiles for well over 20+ seconds. In fact, by the time the shield ends, the wall is back up.

Of course you’re not gonna touch WvW or endgame pve or open wolrd pve. Literally every point you’ve made was completely irrelevant since I had already granted mesmers only perform in skirmishes and duels (and spvp qualifies as skirmishes).

Too bad the aspects of the game that are not spvp happen to be far larger and more populated than said spvp format, and some mesmers have no interest in WvW roaming or spvp.

Mesmers are plain crap in PvE and in WvW larger scale battles they’re little more than veil/portal bots. Shatter is such laughable damage next to lava font or meteor shower let alone a couple of pistol whip cleaves or melee frontline hammer combos, and good luck with those illusions living long enough after they spawn to get a 3 clone shatter on a zerg, not that it will do much for your 6-7k iberserker hitting a group of people when it’s cd is over 10 seconds while an ele is pelting groups people with 3k fireballs left and right and 5k meteors and 4-5k ice spikes with far more frequency.

Then you sir are playing mesmer wrong. Because i regularl do fractals, and dungeons. Never do I have the issues of losing my illusions too fast. Open world pve I’ll give you. But honestly if you hate the class so much why play it?

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Because all the class is good for is pvp skirmishes and little more. The class has no aoe and terrible sustained damage, so it’s garbage in large scale pvp and always garbage in PvE.

Anything a mesmer can do in PvE, a thief (stealthing group through mechanics) or guardian (reflects) can do better.

Only the necro is worse than a mesmer and even then in single target bosses even the necro is better.

Wow… Much salt. Such wow.

• In pvp mesmer is great in team fights, it’s just as of late I see more mesmers running condi (condi mesmer is not good in teamfights.), or a phantasm build also not good in teamfights.

• Our AOE shatter damage in PVP is great, once again most mesmers mess up their shatter combos or they try to run into the middle of a team fight to get that extra little shatter from illusionary persona (lel).

• You are vastly underestimating portal on a mesmer. Especially when playing solo I have had portal save team fights or pull the most massive jukes ever for instance no more than 5 minutes ago I had two guardians and a warrior chasing me on keep at forest I knew I wasn’t gonna cap the point so I dropped a port. They chased me all the way to the beach where they downed me, our warrior ressed me we ported back out to keep where it was a free cap. And since the guardians used ALL their mobility to chase me. We had a full cap before the next team fight. Do not try and say mesmer is bad for anything besides small skirmishes. Because that is wrong.

• Next point-Guardians CANNOT hold a higher reflect uptime than mesmer by any stretch of the imagination. In PVE a mesmer can have permanent reflects guardians only actual reflect is wall of reflection, and that is not 100% uptime.

• Also why do you hate on our AOE so much? It’s really not all that bad. Mesmer may be low tier in pvp even bottom tier but that is because any half decent thief with half a decent brain can outplay the meta mesmer builds. Not too mention the current meta is pretty skewed toward condi which in general mesmers can’t deal with all that well.

• Last but not least if you look at how pvp teams are playing there are way more small skirmishes happening in matches right now than huge balls out team battles, so even if our AOE was so bad in PvP (it’s not), it is irrelevant because most fights happen in smaller skirmishes in pvp.

WvW is something i’m not gonna touch with a 10 foot pole that RossBiddle is holding, so yeah.

So full of crap, I wonder if you do high end pve at all. The only reliable reflection you have is feedback. iWarden gets killed easily in fractal 50, or if mobs move out of its range or the mob it was casted on dies, so goes the use of iwarden. You can trait curtain if you want to gut what little damage you already had though.

Guardian will protect his group with a longer lasting wall, and a spirit shield that absorbs projectiles for well over 20+ seconds. In fact, by the time the shield ends, the wall is back up.

Of course you’re not gonna touch WvW or endgame pve or open wolrd pve. Literally every point you’ve made was completely irrelevant since I had already granted mesmers only perform in skirmishes and duels (and spvp qualifies as skirmishes).

Too bad the aspects of the game that are not spvp happen to be far larger and more populated than said spvp format, and some mesmers have no interest in WvW roaming or spvp.

Mesmers are plain crap in PvE and in WvW larger scale battles they’re little more than veil/portal bots. Shatter is such laughable damage next to lava font or meteor shower let alone a couple of pistol whip cleaves or melee frontline hammer combos, and good luck with those illusions living long enough after they spawn to get a 3 clone shatter on a zerg, not that it will do much for your 6-7k iberserker hitting a group of people when it’s cd is over 10 seconds while an ele is pelting groups people with 3k fireballs left and right and 5k meteors and 4-5k ice spikes with far more frequency.

Then you sir are playing mesmer wrong. Because i regularl do fractals, and dungeons. Never do I have the issues of losing my illusions too fast. Open world pve I’ll give you. But honestly if you hate the class so much why play it?

…..

Yes, I’m sure you, the guy who made a post in the dungeon forums initially admitting you hated berserker speed runs, have much to teach me about playing a mesmer in PvE.

I play the kitten class because I mained a mesmer in GW1 and somehow they found a way to not learn from gw1 and after fixing the class in gw1 many years after, they went and screwed up the class again in gw2.

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Don’t be silly. Even with a DPS meter you’d still make crap up.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Don’t be silly. Even with a DPS meter you’d still make crap up.

Well, we do sorta have a DPS meter. Just it’s a person, and they’re called Frifox.

Regardless… yeah. Hybrid builds are flat out awful in PvE. Anything that’s not full power is completely worthless in a team setting, and only potentially useful if you’re trying to solo dungeons.

Worst thing they did for some classes alongside hybrid weapons is splitting power and condition damage. Guang got it right by suggesting they merge condi damage and power (so power affects both direct damage and conditions), and let conditions crit and adjust their damage accordingly.

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

Because buggy behavior is obviously something that we should base builds around?

Full conditions is a viable and effective build for soloing dungeons. It’s absolute trash in a party.

Fay.2357:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

Because buggy behavior is obviously something that we should base builds around?

Full conditions is a viable and effective build for soloing dungeons. It’s absolute trash in a party.

Oh >.< I didn’t know it was a bug lmao nevermind then!

jportell.2197:

Fay.2357:

jportell.2197:

Zenith.7301:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Maybe it just me but I don’t buy it saying mesmer don’t have sustain dps. Sure we have bust, so does all other class, but to say we don’t have sustain dps is wrong.

Build it right and you will see sustain dps.

I have a hybrid build I run in both pvp and pve that does close to the same level of damage as a direct damage build.

Every attack is a crit, every crit bleeds. Bleed sometime criting for stupid amount once it stacks up to 15+. I have managed to stack 25 and the damage on that was stupid but this is very hard to achieve.

18 – 20 stacks can be achieved with ease, mind you this is in pve, in pvp you can get close between 10-15 Constance.

lolololol “hybrid build” that does similar damage to a direct build, as if conditions scaled with 2 stats instead of 1.

This is the problem with a game that has no dps meters, all kinds of people with no sense of math can just make up crap.

Screw hybrid builds just go full condi in PvE. Don’t believe me? I think there is a video somek*tten of a single mesmer with torment runes/sigils+torment on shatter that 100-0’d Nokk in SE 1 in 2 seconds.

Because buggy behavior is obviously something that we should base builds around?

Full conditions is a viable and effective build for soloing dungeons. It’s absolute trash in a party.

Oh >.< I didn’t know it was a bug lmao nevermind then!

If it’s the video I’m thinking of, then it was confusion that killed him, not torment. Generally speaking, only confusion can act like that. If a boss somehow bugs out to casting something extremely rapidly, which happens from time to time, confusion on them will do titanic amounts of damage. This is obviously a bug.

As a general rule of thumb, if someone can solo-kill a boss in less than 5 seconds with conditions, it’s a bug.

I’ve been waiting for two years for them to make me want to play a Mesmer again. I’m still waiting….

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out against the same mob and I was marginally down on time. So yes it does close, never said same.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out against the same mob and I was marginally down on time. So yes it does close, never said same.

The real problem with conditiondamage is, as fay already said, that condition/hybrid characters will never be able to deal their full damage when playing together with others. If i’d join you my pistol/focus phantasm would just erease your bleed stacks by overwriting them. That’s why zerker will always be stronger than conditiondamage.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out

Please share your build with us. Weapons, traits, gear, runes, sigils, food. Also, how you play it too.

frifox.5283:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out

Please share your build with us. Weapons, traits, gear, runes, sigils, food. Also, how you play it too.

“I don’t care what you all say…”

Should be hint enough that conversation with this guy is going down the rabbit hole.

Zenith.7301:

frifox.5283:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out

Please share your build with us. Weapons, traits, gear, runes, sigils, food. Also, how you play it too.

“I don’t care what you all say…”

Should be hint enough that conversation with this guy is going down the rabbit hole.

If you said his build was amazing and that you like it even just in theory without seeing it laid out and/or in action, he’d totally care and be down with what you say ;D

frifox.5283:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out

Please share your build with us. Weapons, traits, gear, runes, sigils, food. Also, how you play it too.

Build:

2/3/0/5/4

Domination =III
Dueling =II
Chaos =
Inspiration = both changeable but I tend to run with II & V
Illusions = III & X

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRnsISDaWjGmqB1aIR1QObznosbaSFocdA-TxSAABU8IAwWpSGHBgX0HcrSwtUGAwJAQMlUVr+zDmg6Z/hAAIA0iX8iXsAgcA-e

The link is as close to what am using but there are some gear that the site does not have.

Play style.

The idea is to try and max your bleed stacking and as fast but if not getting close to 20 stack still works.

Rather than write my rotation I will simply write it in numbers of the skills while having the weapon at hand.

Start with S/P
4 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 3 – 2 – 8 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 9 – 1 – 1 – 8

swap to GS and roll out to get into max rang for max damage if possible
4 – 5 – 2 – 3 – 1 – 1 etc.

The rotation can be adjusted but the idea is there.

When I check the combat log, I will say 98% of the time everything attack crits helping with bleed stacking. Bleed damage once you have around 18+ stack is a guaranty 1k tick. The highest I have seen is in the 3k per tick but that is when it close to 24/25 stacks.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

-snip-

As has been mentioned and repeated, condition damage is perfectly viable if you’re soloing. If you ever play with a party, then it’s total trash because all of those lovely damage conditions you’ve got will be overwritten by everyone else, lowering your dps to nonexistent.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I don’t care what you all say, I have tested the build out against the same mob and I was marginally down on time. So yes it does close, never said same.

The real problem with conditiondamage is, as fay already said, that condition/hybrid characters will never be able to deal their full damage when playing together with others. If i’d join you my pistol/focus phantasm would just erease your bleed stacks by overwriting them. That’s why zerker will always be stronger than conditiondamage.

If you put it like that, then you could be right, been that one overwrite the other. But am talking about if just me.

Also I tend to due dungeons so don’t really have that much of a problem of it been overwritten.

But yes you do have a point.

Fay.2357:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

-snip-

As has been mentioned and repeated, condition damage is perfectly viable if you’re soloing. If you ever play with a party, then it’s total trash because all of those lovely damage conditions you’ve got will be overwritten by everyone else, lowering your dps to nonexistent.

I just posted I mostly due so it not really a problem

I play wvw (solo roaming) mainly on my warrior and mesmer so I figure I should provide some comparisons. Both my two chars run full zerk (a couple of cavalier pieces on my mesmer). My warrior runs a hammer/GS meta variant (2/0/6/0/6) and my mesmer is standard shatter (4/4/0/0/6). Some of the stats difference with food buff (warrior/mesmer)
power: 2400/2400
crit chance: 41/45
hp: 21k/17k
armor: 3000/2000
crit dmg: 215%/215%
————————————————————————
The stats are rather similar, aren’t they? except for armor, maybe you can argue that warrior is a heavy armor class and it’s melee so 1000 armor difference is not a huge problem. However, let’s look at other aspects that are crucial in wvw.
1. condi removal
Warrior: melandru runes+food=-60% condi duration, berserker stance=8 second condi immunity, cleasing ire=burst/cc+condi removal
Mesmer: either it’s mender’s purity or mantra of resolve or zero cc clearing ability
2. mobility
well no need to go into this regard right?
3. burst damage
Shatter mesmer for the win! only when you thoughtfully lay out your burst chains and time your skills
Warrior can do the the same thing with much easier burst setup with 3 hammer hard cc.
4. Sustain damage
Recharge on warrior weapon skills/ weapon swap is so short which makes warrior highly sustainable in fights.
Mesmers of course can sustain well in fights but have no room for any error.
5. healing
warrior probably has the best healing skill in this game and it’s so simple to use (you never use it)
mesmer’s healing skill is like meh
————————————————————————-
These are just my personal opinions based on my solo roaming experience with both classes. and from my personal experience, mesmer is just too underwhelming compared to warrior in regard of wvw roaming. Don’t get me wrong, I still love playing my mesmer solo roaming because it’s fun but warrior absolutely wins out in nearly every aspect when it comes to wvw roaming.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Build:

2/3/0/5/4

Domination =III
Dueling =II
Chaos =
Inspiration = both changeable but I tend to run with II & V
Illusions = III & X

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRnsISDaWjGmqB1aIR1QObznosbaSFocdA-TxSAABU8IAwWpSGHBgX0HcrSwtUGAwJAQMlUVr+zDmg6Z/hAAIA0iX8iXsAgcA-e

The link is as close to what am using but there are some gear that the site does not have.

Play style.

The idea is to try and max your bleed stacking and as fast but if not getting close to 20 stack still works.

Rather than write my rotation I will simply write it in numbers of the skills while having the weapon at hand.

Start with S/P
4 – 6 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 3 – 2 – 8 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 9 – 1 – 1 – 8

swap to GS and roll out to get into max rang for max damage if possible
4 – 5 – 2 – 3 – 1 – 1 etc.

The rotation can be adjusted but the idea is there.

When I check the combat log, I will say 98% of the time everything attack crits helping with bleed stacking. Bleed damage once you have around 18+ stack is a guaranty 1k tick. The highest I have seen is in the 3k per tick but that is when it close to 24/25 stacks.

Good news, the 2/3/0/5/4 trait allocation is one of the best sword/duelist trait setups you can get… given that you somehow forget that mantras are a thing.

98% of the attacks crit? Impossible. With the setup above (and better trait choices) your phantasms will be at 69% crit. You however will still be at 49%.

I ran a quick test comparing your gear setup vs proper power gear setup.
- 4,566 dps – zerk
- 4,322 dps – your hybrid

You’re close, about 5% less than zerk setup, but have a pretty big problem. Your main source of dps are the bleeds, 3.3k of the 4.3k. A power build delivers almost all of its dmg instantly yet a condi build relies on ranking up the bleed stacks until reaching its optimal dps, and even then still not better than a power build nor are you any more tanky than zerk build. Your setup will be alright in a dragged out fight where bleed stacks will be their max, but what open world pve mob is actually hearty enough to last more than 10 seconds? Also, with only 25% dps being direct dps (and that’s including your sword aa’s mind you), both of 15% phantasm dmg modifiers are practically useless as they do not apply to condi dmg.

The other huge problem of your setup is since 75% of your dps relies on bleeds, as soon as you get in a party with players that apply bleeds (warriors, necros, engis, other mesmers, etc) your dmg output will drop like a rock.

If you really want to be “different” and rely on condi dmg for dps then just get a staff. Running 0/4/6/0/4 with 3 clones you’ll be averaging 6,057 dps (40% improvement over your setup). Best of all, you’ll be insanely tanky due to Rabid gear and 9% dmg reduction trait. However, just like all other condi builds the dps will be greatly reduced as soon as you get someone to overwrite your stacks, which means these awesome builds are for solo’ing only.

Now, if you actually want to be efficient both in solo and in groups, equip mantras, trait 6/6/0/0/2 and start hitting at a safe 5,265 dps without worrying about players hampering your performance. Heck, with that trait allocation even a simple shatter combo such as GS2/4/3/F1 will obliterate pretty much 99% of the open world mobs in one shot.

God the mobility of mesmers is the worst, get a long duration cripple on you after you used your heal, and you’re going nowhere.

It’s also been 2 years and they still haven’t fixed our temporal curtain renewing swiftness if we already had swiftness when walking through it. It’s just awful. Also, temporal curtain should root for 1-2 seconds initially upon crossing to give it more group utility.

There’s so many annoying things about the class, just like how your clones do nothing at all without heavy trait investments, how shatters suck without heavy trait investment (and even then it’s pitiful, people talk about phantasm damage yet my necro can pump out life blasts that do the same damage as an iswordsman nuke and pierces in a line, and necro isn’t even a top tier class).

Cry of Frustration is terrible, hell confusion on the mesmer is terrible when you look at engineers who spike confusion far better and with longer durations.

Then our signets REALLY suck. Inspiration, a 10 second interval for some random boon, most of them with pitiful durations.

Just like the ranger’s spirits, much of the class requires heavy trait investment to even get to a barely functional state.

And then there’s the fact our autoattacks for some reason do really miserable damage, and autoattacks are a main source of sustained damage in this game, and our only source of continued cleave since in group fights clones and phantasms die too quickly to aoe spam to reliably aoe groups of people down.

Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.

The class is one huge gimmick in group play, just a veil/portal/feedback bot.

I don’t even know how thief backstab and warrior damage has barely been touched yet time and again they’ve gutted shatter damage, clone generation (via deceptive evasion change), increased vastly the cooldown on phantasms, nerfed blurred frenzy’s defense.

And then there’s the fact blurred frenzy is just a kitten pistol whip, doing a mere fraction of the damage of a pistol whip (which not only does more damage, but interrupts/stuns and can be chained twice ot three times in a row for massive cleave damage).

Mesmer was my first main but they don’t do enough damage to fit in with today’s pve zerker meta. My guardian does more damage, has better active defenses, and has more reliable reflects. I see no reason to ever group with a mesmer.

Zenith.7301:

Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.

That’s new. Where did you hear that or how did you tests that?

Good news, the 2/3/0/5/4 trait allocation is one of the best sword/duelist trait setups you can get… given that you somehow forget that mantras are a thing.

98% of the attacks crit? Impossible.
With the setup above (and better trait choices) your phantasms will be at 69% crit. You however will still be at 49%.

Possible because when i look at my combat log all majority of my damage including clones were crits. I guess next time i will take a sap shut of my combat log just to prove it.

I ran a quick test comparing your gear setup vs proper power gear setup.
- 4,566 dps – zerk
- 4,322 dps – your hybrid

You’re close, about 5% less than zerk setup, but have a pretty big problem. Your main source of dps are the bleeds, 3.3k of the 4.3k. A power build delivers almost all of its dmg instantly yet a condi build relies on ranking up the bleed stacks until reaching its optimal dps, and even then still not better than a power build nor are you any more tanky than zerk build. Your setup will be alright in a dragged out fight where bleed stacks will be their max, but what open world pve mob is actually hearty enough to last more than 10 seconds? Also, with only 25% dps being direct dps (and that’s including your sword aa’s mind you), both of 15% phantasm dmg modifiers are practically useless as they do not apply to condi dmg.

I have always stated that the build was close to and not superior to a direct damage
The other thing mention is the build is top end heavy cause of the time it takes to build up the 20+ stack bleed while direct is low end heavy/instant.

The other huge problem of your setup is since 75% of your dps relies on bleeds, as soon as you get in a party with players that apply bleeds (warriors, necros, engis, other mesmers, etc) your dmg output will drop like a rock.

Over righting my bleed is a problem, but since I mainly solo and due dungeons right now, I don’t really have that problem.

If you really want to be “different” and rely on condi dmg for dps then just get a staff. Running 0/4/6/0/4 with 3 clones you’ll be averaging 6,057 dps (40% improvement over your setup). Best of all, you’ll be insanely tanky due to Rabid gear and 9% dmg reduction trait. However, just like all other condi builds the dps will be greatly reduced as soon as you get someone to overwrite your stacks, which means these awesome builds are for solo’ing only.

Staff game play to me is kind of boring, although I carry one with me.

Now, if you actually want to be efficient both in solo and in groups, equip mantras, trait 6/6/0/0/2 and start hitting at a safe 5,265 dps without worrying about players hampering your performance. Heck, with that trait allocation even a simple shatter combo such as GS2/4/3/F1 will obliterate pretty much 99% of the open world mobs in one shot.

I have played this build and to be honest as good as it maybe, am not all the impressed with it. My take. maybe because
1.where am playing from (lag issue) and
2. too much particular effects it hard for me to see when NPC are about to make their moves, telegraph.
3. Just maybe my skilled just not good enough to play that build.

I know the limitation of my build, my skills and my probably my connections, I will stand by my build, It works for me, I like it.

Finally, thanks for the feed back a constructive criticism with facts and numbers.

Ok lets be honest with the nerfs and “buffs” on mesmers you can tell that the devs dont even understand how mesmers work…maybe the better question is do the devs even PLAY a MESMER? As i recall there was some vids or showcases where the devs cannot remember mesmer traits or skills. And as for mesmers in pvp, you rarely see mesmers in top tier teams infact most of the teams dont even use mesmers.

Honestly any true mesmer player will know the things that needs fixing is,
1. ileap
2. DE needs to be a minor trait or part of our mechanic.
3. give the kitten back our confusion and remove perplex runes because we all know right now many other classes can utilize confusion alot stronger then mesmers and funny thing was confusion was suppose to be a unique condi to mesmers.

A friend of mine suggested something about ileap saying instead of summoning a clone it puts a sigil or a target marker on the enemy and u can use it to blink instantly and rooting it when youre within range.

Zenith.7301:

God the mobility of mesmers is the worst, get a long duration cripple on you after you used your heal, and you’re going nowhere.

Yeah, unless you have one of many other condition removals available to you.

Zenith.7301:

There’s so many annoying things about the class, just like how your clones do nothing at all without heavy trait investments, how shatters suck without heavy trait investment (and even then it’s pitiful, people talk about phantasm damage yet my necro can pump out life blasts that do the same damage as an iswordsman nuke and pierces in a line, and necro isn’t even a top tier class).

Having things be poor without heavy trait investment is the name of the game for mesmer. We have a lot of mechanics that can do a lot of different things. In order to solidify and focus on one particular thing requires you to trait for it. This isn’t an objectively bad thing.

Zenith.7301:

Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.

Yeah, this is definitely flat out wrong.

Zenith.7301:

yet time and again they’ve gutted shatter damage

No they haven’t.

Zenith.7301:

clone generation (via deceptive evasion change)

No they haven’t.

Zenith.7301:

increased vastly the cooldown on phantasms

Not since like the first month of the game when they normalized all the cooldowns.

Look, I’m not exactly pleased with the state of the class right now, but I like to make sure my complaints have a solid basis in reality.

frifox.5283:

Zenith.7301:

Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.

That’s new. Where did you hear that or how did you tests that?

Use meteor shower in wvw and I noticed a lesser count of meteors, though I’ll be willing to grant that’s not the best test scenario since I’m targeting moving targets and the varying amount of people within the meteor area at those times can muddy that up.

I’ll retract that statement since Fay also appears to contradict it.

Fay.2357:

Zenith.7301:

God the mobility of mesmers is the worst, get a long duration cripple on you after you used your heal, and you’re going nowhere.

Yeah, unless you have one of many other condition removals available to you.

Zenith.7301:

There’s so many annoying things about the class, just like how your clones do nothing at all without heavy trait investments, how shatters suck without heavy trait investment (and even then it’s pitiful, people talk about phantasm damage yet my necro can pump out life blasts that do the same damage as an iswordsman nuke and pierces in a line, and necro isn’t even a top tier class).

Having things be poor without heavy trait investment is the name of the game for mesmer. We have a lot of mechanics that can do a lot of different things. In order to solidify and focus on one particular thing requires you to trait for it. This isn’t an objectively bad thing.

Zenith.7301:

Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.

Yeah, this is definitely flat out wrong.

Zenith.7301:

yet time and again they’ve gutted shatter damage

No they haven’t.

Zenith.7301:

clone generation (via deceptive evasion change)

No they haven’t.

Zenith.7301:

increased vastly the cooldown on phantasms

Not since like the first month of the game when they normalized all the cooldowns.

Look, I’m not exactly pleased with the state of the class right now, but I like to make sure my complaints have a solid basis in reality.

They didn’t normalize phantasm cooldowns, please keep up with the changes before calling them lies. They flat out increased phantasm cooldowns for spvp reasons.

I’d also love to know what “myriad” condition removals you have outside slotting null field, because I can tell you my ele can clear conditions baseline with his weaponskills as can a necro, but I’m either giving up mobility, stunbreaks, or cc in my utility bar to deal with conditions since all mesmer weaponskills are virtually empty of side utility except for the odd few miserable stacks of vulnerability or a short duration cripple.

Clone generation WAS nerfed. Deceptive Evasion used to be a minor trait in dueling, in place of sharpened images. PvP complaints came in, and it was turned into a major trait instead. Not everyone wants sharper images in their build, but deceptive evasion was good for any shatter build, hell it’s good for the sole reason of othere feast and compounding power by keeping your c lone uptime up. So now if you want deceptive evasion, you have to give up something else.

Shatter damage WAS nerfed. We used to have significant might stacking via shattered strength in the master illusions minor trait, and they took it away (nerfed the might count from 3 down to 1). Apparently maintaining 15+ stacks of might is something only warriors and elementalists should be able to do by themselves.

And base skills requiring heavy trait investment to be any good relative to other classes’ base skills IS bad design. Guardian and warrior are good examples of classes with skills that have high base damage and low cooldowns relative to the damage they do. They don’t have to heavily invest in a traitline so those skills don’t suck.

Look in comparison to ranger spirits. Compared to banners, the baseline spirits are marginal, you need the proc increase trait, and if you want to use them in any pvp at all you want to go master trait to make them move as well when a warrior or engineer can grab their own crap and move it elsewhere.

The superior classes are GOOD from the getgo and get BETTER with traits. The deficient ones have to build up to the good level, and it means the diversity of skills they can use is heavily restricted by what build they bring. You then answer to that with an is-ought fallacy.

Zenith.7301:

They didn’t normalize phantasm cooldowns, please keep up with the changes before calling them lies. They flat out increased phantasm cooldowns for spvp reasons.

Yes, they did normalize phantasm cooldowns. A couple were significantly shorter than others, and so they increased those to be in line with the rest. This happened within the first couple months of release iirc.

Zenith.7301:

I’d also love to know what “myriad” condition removals you have outside slotting null field, because I can tell you my ele can clear conditions baseline with his weaponskills as can a necro, but I’m either giving up mobility, stunbreaks, or cc in my utility bar to deal with conditions since all mesmer weaponskills are virtually empty of side utility except for the odd few miserable stacks of vulnerability or a short duration cripple.

Well, you can take the removal mantra, null field, pDisenchanter is extremely potent, traiting mender’s purity allows any heal to remove conditions and it synergizes extremely well with the heal mantra. You can also trait for removal on the torch skills, though that’s more niche. Lastly, you can trait to remove conditions when shattering, and that’s a really powerful condition removal if you choose to build that way.

Zenith.7301:

Clone generation WAS nerfed. Deceptive Evasion used to be a minor trait in dueling, in place of sharpened images. PvP complaints came in, and it was turned into a major trait instead. Not everyone wants sharper images in their build, but deceptive evasion was good for any shatter build, hell it’s good for the sole reason of othere feast and compounding power by keeping your c lone uptime up. So now if you want deceptive evasion, you have to give up something else.

I’m not sure how many ways I need to tell you you’re wrong, but you’re still wrong.

Zenith.7301:

Shatter damage WAS nerfed. We used to have significant might stacking via shattered strength in the master illusions minor trait, and they took it away. Apparently maintaining 15+ stacks of might is something only warriors and elementalists should be able to do by themselves.

No, they nerfed the might stacking, and they nerfed it about 3 weeks after having buffed it, apparently deciding they didn’t want us to stack might. They never touched shatter damage.