Guild Wars 2

Since my old thread got deleted (at least mods are reading this forum i guess), i’m opening a new one without ArenaNet in its title.

After reading this some threads over there in the sPvP forum (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List-Updated-6-30) and playing my mesmer in WvW, i can safely say that mesmer is currently in a very bad spot.

The reasons are:
- our power bursts are very predictable, making them easy to mitigate.
- our condi dmg can’t compete with other classes (except guardian because they don’t really have condis).
- Our cleanses are on very high cds and always force us to abandon something else (runes, utilities, traits)
- Our mobility SUCKS. Sure, we can dance around an opponent, but when it comes to chasing or creating a gap, we are lost.
- Our CC is very limited and we got 1 whole immobilize to try to hold someone.

Just now i was fighting a ranger and an ele near to a friendly camp. There was basically nothing i could do because of the ranger filling me with conditions (me already running Mantra + Null Field) and the ele chain-CC’ing me. I managed to pressure the ele but there is absolutely no way i could ever down or even kill him because i got no mobility.
The really sad thing is: After some minutes, a condi warrior of the third server appeared and EASILY mopped the floor with those 2.

Before posting answers like “but you got portals”, “i never know who’s the real you”, “take centaur runes for swiftness”, think about it, maybe question your own level of play, and then post. So far, many high-skilled sPvP mesmers quit their class and most teams aren’t running mesmers anymore since we just aren’t competitive anymore in this meta.

/edit: As much as i like the feeling of the mesmer class, i will now be equipping my thief or engi and make myself comfortable with them.

I’m not a Mesmer veteran, but it seems just fine to me. I don’t WvW, but I do PvP and PvE.

Bursts are very predictable? That happens to most classes who know what they are doing. You can understand and see things coming.

Ok and you have other strenghts besides condi damage. Some classes only have that and nothing else. Mesers are the most flexable.

You can’t compare your class to the chosen classes. If you have fun with the class stick with it. If you want a easier class that takes zero skill. Go play thief or warrior.

Hell, I just want to play a minion necromancer but even if it is weak, it is so buggy that it is not worth doing. THAT is true problems.

@Requiem: You do hotjoin, i guess? I’m not doing PvP myself but i watched a LOT of videos of Teldo, Symbolic, Helseth, Defective and Co so, at least in theory, i know something about the meta “up there” in high level PvP and that’s the only thing that counts when ArenaNet tries to make this game an E-Sport.

@rager: We were used to flexible, yes. But after ArenaNet killed multiple of our builds and we are now forced to use certain runes, utilities and traits due to meta, that’s not the case anymore. Oh, and you know that MM necro is one of the strongest builds to play currently? ^^

Iavra.8510:

@Requiem: You do hotjoin, i guess? I’m not doing PvP myself but i watched a LOT of videos of Teldo, Symbolic, Helseth, Defective and Co so, at least in theory, i know something about the meta “up there” in high level PvP and that’s the only thing that counts when ArenaNet tries to make this game an E-Sport.

@rager: We were used to flexible, yes. But after ArenaNet killed multiple of our builds and we are now forced to use certain runes, utilities and traits due to meta, that’s not the case anymore. Oh, and you know that MM necro is one of the strongest builds to play currently? ^^

Huh? People in necromancer forums act like it sucks. Not only that, but Necromancers have one good build for pvp and non for pve. Good to know.

I don’t know much about meser problems. The class seems fun, but fun is over shadow by the king classes.

I rarely have issues on my mesmer in WvW. Sure, I might die sometimes, but i never feel underwhelmed. Just today me and an ele guildmate took on 5 enemy for ~20 minutes before we finally got bested.

My question to you is: 1) What level is your mesmer? Mesmers are, from my experience, one of the roughest to level up in the early levels. and 2) In WvW, what build are you using? In WvW, mesmer zerker can be very difficult since you have such a small amount of health.

I don’t run with condition clears, however I do always run with blink. Mesmer’s great strength is we can control the distance we fight from fairly well. However, as a class it does have a considerable learning curve, unlike warriors, etc. It takes time to be a good mesmer. I have also never ran centaur runes, or anything else like that just to keep up. I currently run Runes of Mercy.

I myself have run several very successful builds in WvW, listed below:

• Glamour-Aoe build (before nerf): used cond/tough armor
• Condi mesmer: same armor as above
• AoE stun lock build: PTV+stun/daze sigils/runes
• Reflection medic: (my current favorite). Running a mix of PTV/VTP, with reflection combined with 26-30k (depending on buffs), my mesmer can not only shell out lots of damage, but can take A BIG beating, plus support from medic feedback. Reflection, imo, is a MASSIVELY powerful tool that mesmers can really take advantage of much more than any other class. Distortion with reflection+feedback+focus reflection+mirror+(maybe if you want mimic+sword#2) is extraordinary powerful to have.
• I’ve also fiddled with shatter and boon-share builds..

So, before you call it quits, if you like the feeling of the mesmer class, I’d look on the forums. Look at the different builds, find one that seems interesting to you and try and practice

Mesmers do have GREAT in combat mobility (it’s out of combat we kinda suck). Plus focus pull #4 is a fantastic CC! These comments are mostly for WvW since that is what I mostly play.

Only thing I can see Mesmer as being weak at is running with a zerg which I don’t do anyway. Everything else I think they did take us down a few notches but I am doing fine with. Even though I did have to rework pretty much every build I was using

Iavra.8510:

The reasons are:
- our power bursts are very predictable, making them easy to mitigate.
- our condi dmg can’t compete with other classes (except guardian because they don’t really have condis).
- Our cleanses are on very high cds and always force us to abandon something else (runes, utilities, traits)
- Our mobility SUCKS. Sure, we can dance around an opponent, but when it comes to chasing or creating a gap, we are lost.
- Our CC is very limited and we got 1 whole immobilize to try to hold someone.

To address your points.

1. Our bursts are predictable just like every other burst. Which they should be. If there was no way to recognize when a Blurred Frenzy, phantasm, or a shatter was about to happen we would be very OP. Please name a class whose burst isn’t predictable.

2. Our condition damage works just fine. I have little trouble killing other players in my condition build. The only players I can’t beat are bunker eles and bunker guardians who are skilled.

3. Just about every class has to make some sort of sacrifices to get decent condition removal. Eles are just about the only class where it comes built in. Guardian gets condition removal on focus and as a healing signet passive. Other classes have a limited amount of condition removal on their healing skills. However, many classes use utilities, food, and runes to deal with conditions. We are not alone here.

4. Mobility isn’t free. Other classes have to give up utility slots for speed boosts. We have to use focus or runes. We also have Blink, iLeap, iZerker, Chaos Storm, Temporal Curtain, Signet of Domination, and Magic Bullet to close in on and stop opponents from range. I don’t run swiftness runes or focus, and I don’t have too much trouble stopping opponents.

5. See #4 for all the things we have to stop foes.

No single class can be amazing at everything. Mesmer already has good damage, good utility, and is incredibly fun to play.

Now, consider you’re little story for a second. You were fighting two enemy players. You managed to live, despite being outnumbered. Also, you apparently weren’t utilizing your dodges well, given that the ele was able to chain-CC you, as you stated. So, despite being chain-CCed and fighting multiple opponents, you managed to survive? Perhaps your build is too defensively focused. Now, obviously eles have lots of AoE condition removal, so that’s part of your problem as well.

Finally, I would like to point out that in the thread you posted, mesmer is ranked, as of June 30th 2013, as A+. That means it is currently on the strong side of average based on the votes of players in that thread. It is ranked second highest, being beat only by necro. If that thread gave you the impression that mesmer was weak, you likely were not reading objectively, but rather looking for information that corresponded with your thoughts and opinions.

Perhaps eles have too much condition removal, but that has nothing to do with mesmers and is a discussion for a different time. If a warrior showed up and beat the ranger and ele with little effort, that means that you had already caused your opponents to waste all their condition removal or that the warrior was much more skilled than the other parties involved in the fighting.

I apologize if this post came off as cross, but I’m tired of players having one unfavorable fight and then posting here about how mesmer is either the worst class ever or the most OP class ever. We’re in a good spot right now; complaining because you weren’t able to win a 1v2 just seems silly to me.

I don’t truly see a problem in WvW. However one thing is ofc that the build which is very good at highwayman gameplay (Phantasm-based or interrupt-based) is in turn bad for zerg or 2-3 group gameplay. But it’s not like we’re weak there, Glamour-support works the same as always and really brings a lot of power, shatter builds can kill outlier players in a good burst moment.

in PvE we are not so good.
We are there only for TW and inspiration that are so good because we push other OP professions, but in case of balance this thing woud not be so effective.

the dps loss since last PvP nerf was again unneeded in PvE.

Yet is far from being the worst.
Just to say i think that elementalist is actually in the worst situation in PvE/www and soon PvP ( if i read a certain dev well i foresee 2 more strong nerfs)

I guess it depends, on which area of the game we are talking about.
When it comes to spvp tournaments, I think it’s safe to say we are not amongst the strongest at the moment.

This comes down to the fact, that the game to some extend demands that you fight on point and the new interesting meta with a ton of condition burst.
When doing tournaments, you are expected to run portal and Illusion of Life, meaning you only have one ulitity slot left that you could potentially use for condition removal. Most prefer blink for mobility or mirror images for the extra burst potential.

Rumour has it that most of the top teams have switched the mesmer out and are now running:
S/D thief, necromancer, spirit ranger, engi and guardian.
(This holds true for Xeph on Team Paradigm at least that is now playing a S/D thief and Helseth which seems to be playing a necromancer.)

Of course those top teams are all about min and maximizing and it may not be as dire for the rest of us that are not playing on that level.
It still worries me though.

From the spvp forum from the necromancer that used to play elementalist:

Everything that is powerful currently in the meta completely owns mesmer. I used to be able to protect xeph from the horrors that tried to charge him but it was useless, the horrors are now too much, so he switched to s/d thief. He then tried to stop the horrors from killing me on my ele but that was also futile. So now I’m a necro. We joined the horrors.

And Xeph himself:

while mesmer damage is high its probably one of, if not the most fragile class in the game, it is very weak to both condi and power damage.
Also in high level tournament play, mesmer is almost extinct, with almost no teams running mesmers anymore.
I am currently talking about the most pressing matters; and sadly mesmer isn’t one of them, if mesmers needed nerfing trust me, I would be the first person calling for it, but at the moment they are almost not viable.

So are we the weakest profession?
In high end tournament play, we are amongst the weakest it would seem.
In wvw it might be completely different because of the reduced condition duration food, the fact we are not forced to fight in a very small area or bring very specific utilities. (But I know very little about wvw so I am not qualitfied to say much about it).

What? hell no. People calling mez only useful for TW/portal need to learn their class

i dont know how it looks in wvw but you dont need experience with tpvp, watch streams of mists league and you will see that mesmers and warriors doesnt exists right now in higher lvl of pvp
ps i heard warrior have potential but people dont play this class but mesmer…. gl in meta patch called condi wars 2

I have stopped using my mesmer in tourneys. I understand we have ONE viable build; however in the current meta it is a liability. Until conditon damage/spam gets significantly toned down or mesmer get cond removal in their heal/passive in their traits (like other classes) then mesmers really don’t have a place in the tPvP meta. You want AOE burst, get a necro. You want AOE stun Earthshaker from a warrior does it without having to use any trait points.
You want team support/group heals a bunker engi with healing turret can blast finish 4 times to heal a group to full in water. You want passive team damage buffs bring a ranger. You want an instant res engi elixir R or warrior battle standard out shine IOL in all respects. You want a mobile far point assaulter bring an S/D ele or S/D thief. You want an instant travel across half the map on a 90s CD bring a mesmer. You want to MOA someone on an 180s CD bring a mesmer. Other than that mesmers arent bringing much to their team. Phantasm build is OP in duels but everything else for mesmers is very lack luster in the tournament Meta right now. I can’t speak for “high” end but I run with a guild every night and I can’t use my mesmer anymore because it is a liability for the team and if someone else brings their mesmer we spend most of our time babysitting them so they don’t die.

IIRC J. Sharp said they don’t want teams to have to babysit classes for them to be viable in tournaments. That is what has happened with mesmers. And it isn’t good. :/

I agree to some:

1) Condition Removal – having to take Utilities, Traits and a certain weapon to have any sort of decent removal isnt that great and we are forced to sacrifice in other areas just to remove conditions

2) Condition Damage – I find us to be a fairly weak (but fun!) at conditions. I have seen Rangers, Warriors both doing some solid condition damage and Necros – well we all know about necros

3) Mobility – Though decent in combat we have to sacrifice Utilities to get some. Blink i think needs bit of a buff 900 isnt the best range, would have liked it to be 1200. No out of combat reliable Swiftness other then using Focus

4) Lack of viable builds – i personally think that some of them could do with a buff. Conditions is a bit weak and could do with a little buff but that is partly down to the weapons we have also, due to them not knowing if they are “best” for damage or conditions (Staff and Scepter for example)

Dont you love being the most overpowered and underpowered class at the same time?? Its so amazing to see ppl complaining about 1 thing and then other about the exact opposite…. forums are so much fun lol

Every class has its own niche, own strengths and weaknesses. Not every class can be good at everything. On the other hand, there is the variables of player skill and actual builds when different players clash. Sometimes one build just doesn’t complement the other and will be easily taken down, other times player skill is the issue.

Mesmers have a lot of strengths , you will see a lot of classes calling good mesmers OP.

It’s funny how you mentioned the warrior coming along, but the other day I just 1 v 2 warriors and downed both. Am I supposed to take that and say all warriors are horrible, that the warrior class sucks? By all means no! There are crazy amounts of variables in a wvw fight like i mentioned above.

Good rangers with good builds hold up a nice fight, so do eles. Well so do any other profession with good skill and good builds. It means absolutely nothing. I had a 20 minute 1v1 duel with d/d ele where i finally won with some luck. Where as another ele was downed in a few minutes at another encounter. I 1 v 2 thieves once, but got downed by one thief at another day. It varies. Don’t use these as points of references.

About the actual class skills and stuff, indeed, condi removal is a little tough. But why can’t it be tough for us? We have an abundance of other utilities like others have said. Our positioning, evasion, active defense is amazing. Blurred Frenzy, distortion shatters, diversion shatters, phase retreats, chaos storm, blinks, stealth like decoy, veil, mass invisibility, just the idea of clones alone and having it hard to target us, even if you land a moa. Our offense has huge amounts of damage output, shatters + burst, phantasms like zerker and warlocks, utility and offensive phantasms like a well placed focus 5. i mean, there’s all kinds of stuff we are good at. No other class has the same kind of strategies and abilities we do. But that’s the same for them as well. I think all classes are unique and pretty decently balanced right now.

I can’t talk about tPvP since I don’t do that.

Regarding xeph and his teammate going S/D and necro: I thought that S/D was simultaneously nerfed and became meta in the same patch because the necro was buffed and they complement each other well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unsuspecting_Foe
This is a warrior trait that is poorly written. It apparently gives +50% crit chance vs stunned foes. On one of the more recent sotg, I remember a dev commenting on why the mesmer stun/the mentioned traits were being held back: basically, the warrior/mesmer combo was too strong in the beta.

The 2 recent buffs to the mesmer/buffs to warrior actually seem like the devs are trying to add a meta counter while also bringing back two “weak” professions.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Impact
Axe/Shield 30/10/0/0/30 warrior would be able to wreck opponents with 100% crit chance/max crit dmg in zerker gear and a 3.45 second stun while being sorta immune to conditions between the buffed stance/null field. The mesmer would probably have at least a 10/20/0/0/0 for traiting magic bullet/signet of domination. Maybe 30 dom. Otherwise, it would be rather open in traits.

Thoughts?

PS. I really think you guys are whining too much about not being top tier when we have been there for 90% of the games life. IF you are a top tier player like xeph, I would say you play to win which is why he swapped. If you aren’t that kind of top tier player, play what you want or change your mentality. PvP gives you access max everything besides skill.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

PS. I really think you guys are whining too much about not being top tier when we have been there for 90% of the games life.

I don’t really consider this a whine topic.
A question was asked and I don’t see anyone stating that mesmer just down right is a horrible profession.

If people can’t vent their concerns about the changes to our profession on this section of the forum or ask a question to see if other people see things the same way. Then I don’t really know where the place for that would be.

It might lack a bit of focus in the tittle though. Personally I would seperate it as follows (my opinion only ofc):

Pve: No, I don’t think we are the weakest.

Wvw: Seeing how Osicat is having fun, then no, I doubt we are the weakest.

Hotjoin and solo Q: Doubt it. But even if we were, it wouldn’t matter that much, as it’s basicly about having fun. Pug vs pug usually don’t provide the optimal team combo. When you face a premade – odds are you will loose regardless of what class you play.

Tournaments as a team: Due to the current meta of condition burst and due to how well other professions compliment eachother, we are on the weak side atm.

Weakest? Ofc no, and by a long shot.

But surely 10 months and counting of Anet nerfs, driven by spvp QQers, did weaken the class across all the modes.

Weakest ? Ofc it is ! Check a combat log of a mesmer with 3500 attack and compare to any class ! Edit : in fact dont check it or compare it , you might delete your mesmer !

dani.1956:

Weakest ? Ofc it is ! Check a combat log of a mesmer with 3500 attack and compare to any class ! Edit : in fact dont check it or compare it , you might delete your mesmer !

I dont know if you are sarcastic but… combat log? did you mention that crap? I dont like to read that word.

Levitas.1953:

dani.1956:

Weakest ? Ofc it is ! Check a combat log of a mesmer with 3500 attack and compare to any class ! Edit : in fact dont check it or compare it , you might delete your mesmer !

I dont know if you are sarcastic but… combat log? did you mention that crap? I dont like to read that word.

Yes its sarcasm ! And yes i love to hit 600 dmg when i got 3500 attk ! LOVE IT !

idk, every other prof feels kitten to me.

Iavra.8510:

- our condi dmg can’t compete with other classes (except guardian because they don’t really have condis).

Loled at this.
Ask Nubu! He dueled me some time ago on my condi mesmer.

-A random [Imp] guy

I play with Nubu about every day, you know

He plays Condi and i sometimes do so, also. There are basically 2 ways for a mesmer to kill someone effectively with condi:
- get a bunch of iDuelists and let them stack bleeds (maybe even trait for it and let them stack confusion in Null Field/Chaos Storm). This actually is quite effective, but can only work in a certain area.
- get iCounter off and have some bleeds, burning and poison (Doom Sigil works good) at that time.

The problem is: Condimesmers are quite stationary as they solely rely on illusions. Most of our condis (basically everything except that torment) is too short to actually effect someone when running away. A proper build Condi-Warrior on the other hand does 15s of bleeding on his sword auto-chain (i did some brainstorming about the build today, so i happen to remember the number).

Also, as Nubu just told me today: There is absolutely no way for him to every beat a halfway competent necro even if he specced all for condi-removal.

Supcutie; a mesmer. Ranked #3.

I know your videos. If you are still running the same build you are a total gc without any condi-removal. You may win a fight if you get the jump but you die as soon as a necro sneezes at you.

That said i actually found abuild that’s currently working for me utilizing the traited torch. It most likely won’t be enough to win against a necro, condi engi or tanky condi ranger but against single-condition specs (thieves, warrior) it might be able to do the job.
/edit: Unless i get chain-CC’ed, of course.
It also shows the inherent problem of our traitlines. Since it’s a shatter build, 0/20/0/0/30 is pretty much mandatory to make it work. For condi-removal i now need these 20 points in Domination so there is no space to play around testing something different.

My question to you is: 1) What level is your mesmer? Mesmers are, from my experience, one of the roughest to level up in the early levels.

You’re kidding me, right?

Is mesmer the weakest profession?

Hmm, let me say my experience.

I win at least 90% of my 1v1’s in wvw. Sometimes against bad players I pull off a 1v3. Occasionally I’ll even have night where I’ll have zero deaths and 20+ PK’s (solo pk’s)

I have tons of escape and rarely get caught out in wvw, often even zerg diving to break up the crowd and start a route.

I feel that mesmer has tons of variety in specs and “play styles” Good weapon sets, good utilities.

I get to make mistakes in jumping puzzles because of portal and can help out guildies who have fallen.

Mesmer WvW utility is bar none some of the best.

Mesmer pve utility is amazing as well.

Our damage can sometimes not be as hard hitting as I’d like, but I feel it’s fair and fits with mesmer’s theme and play style of setting up a kill or burst. Mesmer’s damage builds over time at least that’s the idea behind the class overall.

Memser condi damage is amazing. Mesmer power crit builds are also great.

Still my favorite class in any mmo ever and I’ve played almost all of them. (I’m 37)

Mesmer is a magic based thief which I love.

Maybe the class isn’t for you.

Pictured is the 6 stat sets i’ve accumulated showing that i’ve tried darn near every mesmer spec possible and sunk plenty of time into my main class.

I will say that the class sucked for me after launch but looking back that’s because I didnt’ understand the class very well. Once I started watching videos and learning about shatter and phantasm specs it all clicked and suddenly made sense.

I was the problem.

dani.1956:

Weakest ? Ofc it is ! Check a combat log of a mesmer with 3500 attack and compare to any class ! Edit : in fact dont check it or compare it , you might delete your mesmer !

LOL, the worst combat log in mmo history.

There are free mmo’s that have better combat logs. Half our damage doesnt even show up in the combat log.

LOL at a combat log that doesn’t keep seconds or even fractions of a second. Gw2 combat logs marks minutes………….LOL.

That’s about as useful as a fish with a bicycle.

Iavra.8510:

He plays Condi and i sometimes do so, also. There are basically 2 ways for a mesmer to kill someone effectively with condi:
- get a bunch of iDuelists and let them stack bleeds (maybe even trait for it and let them stack confusion in Null Field/Chaos Storm). This actually is quite effective, but can only work in a certain area.
- get iCounter off and have some bleeds, burning and poison (Doom Sigil works good) at that time.

First problem i see in your build: you rely on blind confusion from traited glamour fields.
Try to get the condi on clone death trait, best part is that the “on death” effect is triggered even when a clone is replaced (looking at you Phase Retreat\ iLeap).

Iavra.8510:

The problem is: Condimesmers are quite stationary as they solely rely on illusions. Most of our condis (basically everything except that torment) is too short to actually effect someone when running away.

Well…i saw that it doesn’t matter the duration in the current meta. Everyone is running a sort of cleanse (or worse transfer) so in the end it’s how often and how much you can burst your condies. As a condi mesmer you should be able to apply every condition in this game except fear or the occasional torment if you’re not running with scepter.
I agree on the illusion relying part tho, cos a condi mesmer needs a build up time

Iavra.8510:

Also, as Nubu just told me today: There is absolutely no way for him to every beat a halfway competent necro even if he specced all for condi-removal.

Must admit that i didn’t find a good necro, maybe because the class is fotm.
But with perma regen + null field + condi removal on ether feast i usually feel comfortable. Note that null field is swapped against heavy condition builds.
In the end i usually haven’t any kind of problem on my mesmer, but feel free to discuss with me or the other guys in game since it’s faster to type there and i’m a lazy guy

people are still running glamour specs for condi stacking? WTF

Ive been using that Sword/Torch scepter/pistol spec of 0-25-0-20-25 with carrion/rabid and tearing people up.

People think you have to use glamour fields to stack condis? What? huh? how? Glamour builds are sooooooooooo 3 months ago. Glamour specs are great for clerics gear but I have no idea why people in the current meta would be using that for condi stacking.

Condi mesmers are stationary? Is that a typo or are my eye’s deceiving me? Stationary? huh?

First problem i see in your build: you rely on blind confusion from traited glamour fields.

Umm…no?

I use Null Field and Chaos Storm (not a glamour, you know) to get confusion with traited iDuelists shooting thorugh the combo field.

0-25-0-20-25

I am using Xephs 0/20/25/0/25 with scepter/pistol + staff.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but if some one is saying to me “Mesmers are weak” my first thought is LTP. Mesmer, although not in the top of spvp/tpvp, are far from weak. There are things I can do w/o having a second though on my Mesmer that I would avoid on most of my other toons. You have to remember that the Mesmers damage come from the accumulation of a series of attacks not one ability like other professions.
Take a shatter burst using sw/sw and staff or sw/pistol and GS. Whatever combination of weapons used anyway. Summon 2 phantasms one clone and wait for the attack series from phantasms, I-leap, blurred frenzy, f1. Loads of damage from lots of sources. So that’s 3500 to 5k from blurred frenzy, 4k to 6k from f1 and the damage from phantasms before that 4k from I-swordsman, 4k from I-dualist plus bleeds. I’ve seen the accumulative damage from 5 seconds of an attack series add up to over 18k. So, Mesmers weak!!! Lol. Don’t ever watch the combat log and depend on that as a comparison tool. If you want to see what you’re doing for damage. Fraps it and review it later.

dani.1956:

Levitas.1953:

dani.1956:

Weakest ? Ofc it is ! Check a combat log of a mesmer with 3500 attack and compare to any class ! Edit : in fact dont check it or compare it , you might delete your mesmer !

I dont know if you are sarcastic but… combat log? did you mention that crap? I dont like to read that word.

Yes its sarcasm ! And yes i love to hit 600 dmg when i got 3500 attk ! LOVE IT !

i’m not sure what you mean by sarcasm, because i am only interpreting it as your actual opinion lol so i’ll just say, you do know that combat log doesn’t record all our damage and 600 dmg from you is no relevance, as most of our damage comes from things like, phantasms, shatters, conditions…. and from what i remember looking at my combat log (which was a long time ago), it never showed any of the damage my illusions were doing. combat log has nothing to do with mesmer fighting.

Anyway… i’m pretty sure all good mesmer players, and there are plenty on these forums, many who posted videos, who posted their builds etc, and they will tell u how powerful their mesmer play is…. and you can see how versatile mesmers are in everything, 1v1, 1vX, PvE dungeons, PvE open field, wvw zerging, wvw roaming, pvp, and i’m pretty sure opponent classes always complain about mesmers being OP AND allies appreciate and ask for mesmer help in many situations. I’ve heard it myself first hand so many times… theres a reason for that. and if you believe mesmers are weak then you need to L2P, make a better build, practice, or switch to another class that suits ur playstyle better…

Iavra.8510:

- Our CC is very limited and we got 1 whole immobilize to try to hold someone.

Sorry, my build is… Kinda.. based on CC, it’s a build that focuses a lot on duelling so I don’t really lose 1v1 which is a general strong point for mesmers, to be good at 1v1 fights.

Illusionary leap is a great set-up for coming in with a blurred frenzy, on top of this we get a 2s stun from pistol, then a 3s stun from signet of domination which is a pretty decent stun duration. For interrupting and such, the illusionary wave from greatsword and the daze from shatter works nicely. It’s very possible for mesmer’s to hold their opponent AND make sure they don’t get any heals or skills off through constant interrupt.

Hexxen.7216:

Only thing I can see Mesmer as being weak at is running with a zerg which I don’t do anyway. Everything else I think they did take us down a few notches but I am doing fine with. Even though I did have to rework pretty much every build I was using

Nope, not at all…mesmers are very useful in a zerg, and can make the difference between victory and defeat. Organized groups require at least a few mesmers as they provide crucial and irreplaceable utility. One well placed null-field, veil or portal is all it takes to be useful to a group.

Unfortunately mesmers are usually not great at getting lootbags in Zerg battles (all those skills that make us so useful give 0 lootbags)…but with the right build, you can be very survivable, do solid aoe damage, and provide good group utility.

I think mesmers more than other classes are solid in all settings (maybe on par with eles and guardians). As others pointed out, they do well in PvP at all levels (not just high level play). They also do well in WvW in solo roaming, as well as in zerg vs zerg battles. They are also a staple of PvE – you will never have a hard time finding a CoF group as a mesmer (though you may get kicked if you’re not “pro” enough). I don’t really feel overpowered in any setting…just solid, in a decent place. Certain builds could probably use a few minor buffs or tweaks, but I really don’t see it as anything to complain about.

As others mentioned, none of this is true before level 40…so if you’re under lvl 40, look up lvling builds and keep on trucking!

Sorry, my build is… Kinda.. based on CC

I’m assuming you play Phantasm-Condi, then? The problem is, again, that Signet of Domination is a utility skill (as is Mantra of Distraction if you REALLY want to overdo it <.<) and takes precious space which could have been filled with cleanses or stunbreaks.

What i’m seeing is that the class relies too much on it’s utilities to acomplish something and since mesmers in tPvP are only taken because of Portal or IoL, all these nice utility skills are basically worthless there or you could as well take another class that doesn’t need to be babysitted in the current condi-meta.

Why? whenever I start playing a class, that class becomes underpowered! When I played eles because I heard eles was amazing, then eles got nerfed and eles forumers were crying. Then, I played rangers, but rangers got nerfed and rangers forumers were crying. Now, I started to play Mesmer because I heard Mesmer was one of the best, but now it seems Mesmer loses its former glory.

That being said, since I am not playing very well, there are lots of things I can learn. I still have fun playing all these classes.

Illusion.1807:

Why? whenever I start playing a class, that class becomes underpowered! When I played eles because I heard eles was amazing, then eles got nerfed and eles forumers were crying. Then, I played rangers, but rangers got nerfed and rangers forumers were crying. Now, I started to play Mesmer because I heard Mesmer was one of the best, but now it seems Mesmer loses its former glory.

That being said, since I am not playing very well, there are lots of things I can learn. I still have fun playing all these classes.

Best advice here is: Play the class you enjoy the most.
Balance is constantly changing anyway and unless you plan on doing team tournament games, then mesmer is a good, strong and most importanly fun profession to play.

Ain’t that the frigging truth? Every thing I run at 80’s eaten an arseload of nerfs (except the Thief, for the most part). I still play ‘em all. Eventually the “Big” teams’ll have something else to whinge about. I could give a fig, I’m just over how much pull this game’s smallest % of population (PvPers) have, RE: what gets nerfed.

Illusion.1807:

Why? whenever I start playing a class, that class becomes underpowered! When I played eles because I heard eles was amazing, then eles got nerfed and eles forumers were crying. Then, I played rangers, but rangers got nerfed and rangers forumers were crying. Now, I started to play Mesmer because I heard Mesmer was one of the best, but now it seems Mesmer loses its former glory.

That being said, since I am not playing very well, there are lots of things I can learn. I still have fun playing all these classes.

Uh…maybe don’t start playing a class just as everyone starts agreeing that it’s overpowered? That’s when the nerf is coming… If you like the playstyle, you work around limitations, find strengths and learn to enjoy it.

Mesmers are not weak by any means, nor are elementalists for that matter. Both classes continue to be strong in most settings, despite a few nerfs that were probably appropriate. ANet is trying to balance the classes as best they can, which sometimes means nerfs. It also sometimes means buffs. The nerfs that mesmers have gotten lately, IMO have come along with some substantial buffs tht have opened up new playstyles and builds. If you are flexible, you’ll find them.

You may also find yourself losing more battles – but maybe if you were winning 75% of your duels and now it’s gone down to 50%, it’s not because you were some amazing player, but now the class is nerfed…maybe it just means you’re an average player, and now the class is balanced. It’s the sort of thing that you can only really tell when watching very high level play, or looking through tons of data.

I think it is hard to say that Mesmer is the worst of all professions when every group wants them. Mes, Wars, Gaurds, and even Ele’s have it good in this regard.
Now, if you were talking about the ranger… I think something can be said when any serious players will look at a ranger and just say, “No. You suck.” Hahaha

Conix.4589:

I think it is hard to say that Mesmer is the worst of all professions when every group wants them. Mes, Wars, Gaurds, and even Ele’s have it good in this regard.
Now, if you were talking about the ranger… I think something can be said when any serious players will look at a ranger and just say, “No. You suck.” Hahaha

Difference being you are wanted for a select few utilities. Mesmer are pretty weak in some ways and strong in others. We offer to much group utility but thats about it. PvP wise are currently taken for Utilities while everything else we can do can be done better, easier with other classes and this Condition heavy Meta means that we cant cant do pretty much anything without help.

Talking about ranger, they are actually quite powerful in the current meta:
PvE – 1 ranger in CoF speed run record.
PvP – Spirit rangers seem to be very viable.
WvW – Shout support rangers can maintain permanent regeneration, swiftness /edit: and fury on their group while LB rangers deal a lot of damage and also got a quick disengage in LB #3.

I have mained a mesmer since I started the game in Nov. up until recently. It is my favorite class and while more mesmers were disappearing from tournament rotations I tried sticking it out and being useful to my team. But it got to the point where they (and me) were realizing that mesmers aren’t bringing much to teams anymore. This is going to be strictly speaking from a tPvP point of view. Not hot joins (never play them) or WvW because mesmers are still useful there in some ways and we are still wanted in several dungeon groups.

However from a tPvP standpoint. Mesmers are most definitely no longer viable. Here are a few reasons why we were brought to teams before and this is still a small list.

Boon Removal On Shatter- Thieves do this better now with s/d while still being more survivable thanks to the built in evade and the condition removal on two (spammable condi removal)

Timewarp thanks to the quickness nerf no need for it anymore and people started asking mesmers to bring moa.

Moa Cheap trick that shouldn’t belong and prolly needs replaced by something idk USEFUL. Maybe something that will actually make it so that our elites can be affected by traits (right now almost EVERY other class has elites that have their CD reduced by traits or made more effective by traits.) We have PU for mass invis but people don’t want mesmers for invis. I can also count on one hand the number of times I have died where moa is the reason.

Illusion Of Life If you want an AOE res bring a ranger they are more survivable and bring better team buffs with spirits. And spirit ranger is surprisingly viable now. Also the spirit can be activated two times before it dies. So yes it can be two AOE team resses in the space of 30s. IIRC all other insta rezzes have been nerfed like engi elixir R. IOL, Sig of Undeath, Etc. Yet this spirit has an active form that can be brought in every two seconds. Really?

Portal This is maybe THE ONLY THING that mesmers can bring to teams anymore and that is a long shot. Great for back point bunking and that is about it.

Right now if you want something chances are someone can do it better than a mesmer. You want a burst build that can still stand up to the AOE condi cleave. Bring an SD thief or S/D ele.
You want great team support bring a spirit ranger (two is even worse)
You want a bunker that can face tank 3 people for about 2 min. Bring a bunker engi.
You want boons for your teams bring a guardian.
You want insta resses bring a ranger.
You want Aoe Conditons bring a necro, eng, thief, (they all do it better)
If you want group invis. Bring an engineer and stack blast finishers (the stealth duration is way longer than any mesmer stealth)
If you want group condi clear bring an ele or a guardian.
AOE interrupts bring a warrior (earthshaker is on a 7s traited cooldown) compare that to diversion -_-
You want moa. Bring a mesmer. You want portal Bring a mesmer.

Mesmers have ONE blast finisher on a terrible weapon and one combo field which isn’t all that great because chaos armor is dependent on people getting hit and last I checked people would still just rather not ever get hit.
The spam happy condition meta in tPvP has made mesmers no longer viable for tournaments. The slew of nerfs that ANET has thrown down our throats without any meaningful buffs has made mesmers no longer viable.
We are by no means in anyway OP. The only thing we have that is OP is phantasm build and that is what most are running (if they even are running) and the phantasms still die faster than ANY other summon in the game.
Please ANET do something meaningful for mesmers.

even though the nerfs have destroyed a lot for wvw mesmers, there is always ways to have some sort of viable builds,even if they have become way more complex than before. i would never part from my mesmer although i get mad at certain nerfs that took soo much from us. i miss glamour and a lot of the diverity, but im hoping for anet to give us something strong and unique soon, that is not dps based. mesmers are a unique class and thats why i love them.

I only agree on conditions our conditions and the lack of condi cleans, mesmer dont aply a lot of conditions and the main condition (confusion) is very underwelming.

Other than that warrior is still the free kill of the game.

Fenrir.5493:

I only agree on conditions our conditions and the lack of condi cleans, mesmer dont aply a lot of conditions and the main condition (confusion) is very underwelming.

Other than that warrior is still the free kill of the game.

I still don’t understand this lack of condi cleans argument that is still EVERYWHERE on these forums.

iDisenchanter = removes 2 per bounce plus rips boons and is on a 16/20s CD
Null Field = removes 1 per second and on 40second CD
Manta of Resolve = 2 conditions per use with 2 uses per charge
Traited Torch = 1 per skill use both of which are on a ~21s CD thanks to the trait and one stealths you.
Arcane Thievery = takes away three condi and can take up to 3 boons.
Mendure’s Purity = condition removal on heal
Shattered Conditions = 1 conditon per illusions shattered can be used pretty much as fast as you can pump out more conditions since we have 4 shatters.
Temporal Curtin plus iWarden = condition cleansing bullets.

That seems like a lot of on demand condi cleansing to me. Sure don’t have a “cleans one condition every Xs skill” but three of our cleanses also cleans allies.

We’re trash for large scale, but for small scale (pvp and small group wvw) we’re very strong. I’d love for us to have more impact on larger fights even if it meant losing portal and/or veil, but it hardly makes us the weakest class.

Our build diversity right now is fairly terrible, but there are some decent fringe builds if you want to change things up.

PS most of those cleanses blow alone, requiring us to stack many of them to achieve what many others can do with 1 utility or heal. You can cleanse allies, grats… ele and guard will put you to shame in that regard and still have far better self cleansing.

Odaman.8359:

We’re trash for large scale, but for small scale (pvp and small group wvw) we’re very strong. I’d love for us to have more impact on larger fights even if it meant losing portal and/or veil, but it hardly makes us the weakest class.

Our build diversity right now is fairly terrible, but there are some decent fringe builds if you want to change things up.

PS most of those cleanses blow alone, requiring us to stack many of them to achieve what many others can do with 1 utility or heal. You can cleanse allies, grats… ele and guard will put you to shame in that regard and still have far better self cleansing.

I actually do not agree totally but kinda that we have to stack BUT I don’t really care if ele or guar put us to shame. Every class shouldn’t have the same abilities.

Odaman.8359:

We’re trash for large scale, but for small scale (pvp and small group wvw) we’re very strong. I’d love for us to have more impact on larger fights even if it meant losing portal and/or veil, but it hardly makes us the weakest class.

I agree with this largely. When I solo roam in WvW, I’m having a blast on my Mesmer and although we have received a long string of nerfs, I still feel that it’s a capable class. The current meta-game that focuses on conditions blows for my Mesmer though, but I’m still confident going out in the lakes and taking on most classes.

However, when we roll out as a guild in the lakes with our 15-20 men competitive play-style whereby we purely focus on taking on other competitive guilds or zergs that are >2 our size, I often wonder why I even bother. Other than my utilities – which are highly valued by my guild it must be said – I don’t feel like I bring a lot to the table, and what I do other classes would be better at.

In large-scale organised WvW we’ve been mostly reduced to utility-bots.

I just wish that they’d make it so that AOE does not impact on our clones/phantasms (or pets in general) and that they’d have to be specifically targetted. At least then we could use them for damage, shatters, AOE regen, etc. Our whole class mechanic just becomes non-existent in large-scale and as a result our class suffers massively.