Mesmer was only nerfed
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Maguuma
I demand Illusionary leap’s Clone be promoted to a higher HP due to how badly we just got kittened by arenanet :/
No offense, but this was heavily abused by mesmers especially in PVP. Now, I’m not saying they don’t need to be buffed but abusing bugs like this was clearly not the skill’s intention by anet, it was not meant to be a teleport to avoid damage , anybody who thought that is not thinking clearly. Higher hp would help and i agree it needs it, but even the pathing of the skill itself is horridly buggy, it just needs to be re-worked entirely. There’s a plethora of other kitten anet could fix too with the class in it’s entirety.
Lol abused? It was a feature with a high skill cap for use. Abused my left testicle.
A high skill cap? It was a BUGGED SKILL. What high skill cap are you referring to. It was a skill literally designed to immobilize your target into place to apply burst onto it. It was NEVER, EVER meant to be a consistent way to teleport away from damage and avoid burst, but since it was bugged it was used as such hence the fix. It is a nerf, but if people relied so much on a bugged skill then I don’t know what to say. It’s a nerf to people that heavily relied on a broken mechanic then I’m sorry , but that’s your loss. Now, moving onto positive fixes, make it’s pathing better, because right now when you use it , it’s wonky as kitten when you use on incline/decline areas and sometimes rubberbands when you leap. These need to be fixed please.
On the contrary. That functionality of the skill was often the only thing making it at all usable. Why do you think people are so annoyed? Having it disabled when the clone dies means it’s useless in PvE, useless in group wvw, useless in team fights for tpvp, and useless against an opponent that cleaves, because generally the clone dies in 1 hit. If this is truly how you think it was intended, I have nothing else to say to you.
Erm, but that is how it was intended. Nothing in the description describes abusing an already dead clone and use it’s original location as a teleport spot to use in order to avoid damage. Everything in the description describes what you just described about the skill, whether you think it’s useless or useful , it still has its uses in team play and solo play.
Maguuma
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
First of all, helseth is only able to play effectively because his team is completely built around supporting a mesmer. While this is technically possible, very very few teams care to bother doing that.
Secondly, he doesn’t use sword/x, so this nerf obviously doesn’t affect him.
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
First of all, helseth is only able to play effectively because his team is completely built around supporting a mesmer. While this is technically possible, very very few teams care to bother doing that.
Secondly, he doesn’t use sword/x, so this nerf obviously doesn’t affect him.
The team isn’t built AROUND supporting him, the team is built around fast off-node capping and use of portal and quick node rotations while tage holds node over a given time until they rotate again. They have a thief that peels for the mesmer, Sizer, so that means the whole team? He plays the mesmer class effectively and it works in some of the most top tier pvp this game has in this point in time, GASP. You are very delusional and think mesmer is nothing but good for roaming in WvW , that’s very unfortunate for you. It was a nerf to people who relied on a bug, just goes to show you how much people relied on it. That’s your fault for getting used to it, it was bound to be fixed (this bug has been known for a while).
My point about helseth was to illustrate how delusional you sound by saying that
" mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build."
Shatter mesmer is good in team play in tPvP whether it’s with sword/x or gs/staff. The amount of plays that can be done with portal are unreal.
Now anet please fix the bugs relating to pathing , rubberbanding and ileap as well as iwarden and the other bugs that have been mentioned over and over in threads before.
Maguuma
I demand Illusionary leap’s Clone be promoted to a higher HP due to how badly we just got kittened by arenanet :/
No offense, but this was heavily abused by mesmers especially in PVP. Now, I’m not saying they don’t need to be buffed but abusing bugs like this was clearly not the skill’s intention by anet, it was not meant to be a teleport to avoid damage , anybody who thought that is not thinking clearly. Higher hp would help and i agree it needs it, but even the pathing of the skill itself is horridly buggy, it just needs to be re-worked entirely. There’s a plethora of other kitten anet could fix too with the class in it’s entirety.
Lol abused? It was a feature with a high skill cap for use. Abused my left testicle.
A high skill cap? It was a BUGGED SKILL. What high skill cap are you referring to. It was a skill literally designed to immobilize your target into place to apply burst onto it. It was NEVER, EVER meant to be a consistent way to teleport away from damage and avoid burst, but since it was bugged it was used as such hence the fix. It is a nerf, but if people relied so much on a bugged skill then I don’t know what to say. It’s a nerf to people that heavily relied on a broken mechanic then I’m sorry , but that’s your loss. Now, moving onto positive fixes, make it’s pathing better, because right now when you use it , it’s wonky as kitten when you use on incline/decline areas and sometimes rubberbands when you leap. These need to be fixed please.
A nice quote on why this “fix” was a worse mistake then Power Block nerf:
A note to game developers: fix your bugs after release if you have the opportunity to do so. But beware that players enjoy the feeling of wielding “unfair” tactics, and taking that away from them can be a mistake if the “unfair” tactic isn’t powerful enough to single-handedly win tournaments.
Total disconnect between the devs and the community.
Worse, I bet the guy who fixed the bug in code felt really good about “finally” having found “that one”.
Because, well, it is a bug. No criticism there, clearly not intended behaviour going by the tooltip.
I demand Illusionary leap’s Clone be promoted to a higher HP due to how badly we just got kittened by arenanet :/
No offense, but this was heavily abused by mesmers especially in PVP. Now, I’m not saying they don’t need to be buffed but abusing bugs like this was clearly not the skill’s intention by anet, it was not meant to be a teleport to avoid damage , anybody who thought that is not thinking clearly. Higher hp would help and i agree it needs it, but even the pathing of the skill itself is horridly buggy, it just needs to be re-worked entirely. There’s a plethora of other kitten anet could fix too with the class in it’s entirety.
Lol abused? It was a feature with a high skill cap for use. Abused my left testicle.
A high skill cap? It was a BUGGED SKILL. What high skill cap are you referring to. It was a skill literally designed to immobilize your target into place to apply burst onto it. It was NEVER, EVER meant to be a consistent way to teleport away from damage and avoid burst, but since it was bugged it was used as such hence the fix. It is a nerf, but if people relied so much on a bugged skill then I don’t know what to say. It’s a nerf to people that heavily relied on a broken mechanic then I’m sorry , but that’s your loss. Now, moving onto positive fixes, make it’s pathing better, because right now when you use it , it’s wonky as kitten when you use on incline/decline areas and sometimes rubberbands when you leap. These need to be fixed please.
A nice quote on why this “fix” was a worse mistake then Power Block nerf:
A note to game developers: fix your bugs after release if you have the opportunity to do so. But beware that players enjoy the feeling of wielding “unfair” tactics, and taking that away from them can be a mistake if the “unfair” tactic isn’t powerful enough to single-handedly win tournaments.
People shouldn’t get used to bugs in the first place, whether they’re deemed unfair or not. When ranger’s empathic bond never transferred conditions to your pet (3 every 10 seconds) and was finally fixed a bunch of rangers got upset, but you know what, they knew it was broken and abused it until it was fixed , it took them almost a year to fix that one and rangers threatened to quit ranger because of it. When Pure of voice was broken (and even in the guardian thread) removing more conditions than it should have for almost a year , people got mad about that and threatened to quit guardian because of it. I’m still waiting on them to fix thieves d/p #3 teleporting through walls with no target , alot of thieves use that, and once it’s fixed what do you think will happen? You will see the same thing.
You should not adapt to abusing bugs because when they end up getting fixed , you feel like you’ve been let down.
What makes me upset though is the fact that anet forces most of the classes to endure obvious bugs that limit the class for more than a year plus that have been noted countlessly but willingly fix bugs that were used as a positive to those classes when it should be 50/50 and even more so on the side of fixing broken bugs that limit the class. That’s really the problem with bug fixes in this game that will probably never change.
Maguuma
(edited by blitzkrieg.2451)
Okay, to ANet’s defence, the cast duration bar seems to have been reduced/fixed, so the clone spawns almost instantly.
…if it spawns.
There’s a range where the red bar is gone, but the skill fails. Last but not least, I believe that swapping mechanics have been altered, as it often fails to swap and resets the clones position from the target closer to you.
I suppose due to the running trend here..
The real question and effort should not be complaining about the bug fix and how its taken away something nice.
Rather, I submit, What other Nice things do mesmers have/do that Anet has in the cross hairs next?
Powerblock bug – was nice for half a week.
iLeap – Bugged for nearly 2 years was nice to have.
iWarden – Bugged for about a year, attacked and reflected reliably but didnt move, was nice in retrospect.
Staff – Nearly Universal CD increase to all skills, was nice for about 2 and a half months after launch
Sword MH – Was Nice now is not.
Torch – Was nicer till the Retal/Confusion Changes and Prestige fixes.
etc.. etc..
I suppose We should just revert to Starter status and just pick up a Scepter and drop our Offhands.. seems to be the direction Anet wants to take the class anyway..
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
Are you kidding me….
It’s like every patch is another slap in the face. Illusionary Leap BUG?! You want to talk about Illusionary Leap BUGS and THAT’S what they ‘fixed’?
I didn’t even realize that was ‘broken’. It’s not the biggest deal ever, but I can certainly say it happened often enough that I appreciated it.
Sometimes it feels like they’re only willing to fix bugs if it’s to act as a nerf. Even the patch that was hyped as “we’re fixing bugs instead of buffing you because the bug fixes will act as buffs” april patch ended up as none-sense.
I mean, bug fix, that’s great and all but geez, mind hitting some of the bugs that we actually want fixed?
You should not adapt to abusing bugs because when they end up getting fixed , you feel like you’ve been let down.
The problem was in the fact that with all the “bugs” and “quirks” of the class, it’s very unclear what is a bug, what is a quirk, and what is intended behaviour.
Mirror of Anguish instakilling eles was a bug and should’ve been fixed. I don’t think many people abused it, and clearly no one in a sane mind would’ve opposed fixing it.
Power Block was useful – not viable, actually useful instead of useless against 1/8 of game classes! – and viable against bosses with Defiant, but it was “fixed” and turned into another useless Grandmaster trait which only looks good in PR articles and streams.
Swapping to clone position of a dead clone made perfect sense because a mesmer is a master of illusions, and keeping in mind the position of his illusion for a couple of seconds after it’s gone is pretty normal for him.
If the class works flawlessly and has no bugs but needs nerfing, probably shaving some “extra” mechanics is an option. But when the class is full of bugs, removing things which were outweighing bugs is plain wrong from gameplay design point of view.
I am appalled and disgusted. I think Anet will end up removing all classes but warrior at this point.
“Summon an illusion that leaps at your target, crippling them. After the initial leap, the clone will execute the Mind Slash sword chain.”
Your thought of what you think it SHOULD be is irrelevant. It was bugged in the sense of how it should have worked mechanically based upon the description and it was fixed as such.
Like I said in my latest post, I agree with you but you’re referring to positive vs negative bugs , they’re both the same though – they’re bugs.. Anet does this kind of bug fixing with every class if you look at the history of what works and doesn’t work for every class. It’s not right but the developers are just extremely bad at fixing bugs that limit the professions and are excellent at fixing bugs that give positives to the professions, not just mesmer but it just so happened to mesmer with iLeap so it’s gotten the most attention but they do this with EVERY class.
Maguuma
Sometimes they change the description of a skill saying “the skill was not bugged, the description was just wrong”, and now they change the skill saying “the description was good but the skill was bugged”, truth is anet can do whatever they want and we are forced to deal with it.
To me the skill was working as intended, nothing ever stated that the clone had to be alive for it to works, switching position with the clone or what was left of the clone always felt normal and I never felt like abusing a bug.
Nothing buggy in switching place with a dead clone (as long as said clone and switch are linked to the same skill), its like switching place with a cadaver, it has no use and can’t attack once dead, but nothing stop us from switching place with it ,I don’t see what’s buggy with that.
What is buggy is clicking a skill and seeing it fail for no reason.
Now that’s buggy
So count me in the disappointed ones too.
(edited by Mydnyght.5026)
“Summon an illusion that leaps at your target, crippling them. After the initial leap, the clone will execute the Mind Slash sword chain.”
Your thought of what you think it SHOULD be is irrelevant. It was bugged in the sense of how it should have worked mechanically based upon the description and it was fixed as such.
Like I said in my latest post, I agree with you but you’re referring to positive vs negative bugs , they’re both the same though – they’re bugs.. Anet does this kind of bug fixing with every class if you look at the history of what works and doesn’t work for every class. It’s not right but the developers are just extremely bad at fixing bugs that limit the professions and are excellent at fixing bugs that give positives to the professions, not just mesmer but it just so happened to mesmer with iLeap so it’s gotten the most attention but they do this with EVERY class.
You point about the descriptions doesn’t make for much of an argument, the tooltips lack plenty of information, get updated all the time, and have unclear language in places. They convey the basics idea behind the skill, along with some numbers, and then the player is left to discover the nuances of how the skill works.
Swap’s description: Swap locations with your clone. Immobilize nearby foes.
I can have three clone, all of which would fall under the description of “your clone”. It’s not unreasonable to expect to swap with another clone if the Illusionary Leap clone was already dead based on that description. After using the skill, you’d discover that to not be the case.
Your point on positive and negative bugs is also rather irrelevant. Bugs affect balance and consideration needs to be taken when ‘fixing’ them, especially when they are long standing bugs (that most people actually think are intended in this case).
You can’t just squash bugs without consideration for the ramifications it will have, and then justify it behind “because it’s a bug”.
Furthermore, there’s been a very strong trend of so-called “negative” bug fixes for the mesmer for many many months now. Most people will understand nerfs that result from bug fixes. What the mesmer community is struggling to accept is the fact that this has been so strongly the case for mesmers. Even the patch the devs said would buff us as a result of the “many” bug fixes they were supposed to bring didn’t really do anything good for us.
I play other classes, I’ve “mained” both a mesmer and a warrior with pretty equal focus between them since beta (though I play my warrior more now, don’t think I need to explain why), and I’m not alone in this. People know other classes have to deal with nerfs that result from bugs (and nerfs in general), the problem is that the mesmer is getting the short end of the stick.
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
The tooltip of the chain skill is actually very clear on this one, “Swap places with your clone”.
Makes sense, no clone, no swap.
Problem is ofc that it was rather vital to the skill’s usability.
IMO, just make the clone actually leap. Like, what Warriors do. The overpowered type of leap.
The tooltip of the chain skill is actually very clear on this one, “Swap places with your clone”.
Makes sense, no clone, no swap.
Problem is ofc that it was rather vital to the skill’s usability.
IMO, just make the clone actually leap. Like, what Warriors do. The overpowered type of leap.
I love how people keep quoting the tooltips as a reason for how this is obviously what is was intended to be.
Have you all not noticed the fact that probably over half of the tooltips in this game are some combination of misleading, incomplete, or flat out wrong? How on earth does a tooltip saying something give any relevance to any argument? The way it has always been is tooltip says something, but you test out the skill to see what it actually does.
Yes ofc. But at the same time, how is that an argument for this not being the intended behaviour. Specifically, do you really think someone did this to nerf Mesmers? That seems awfully convoluted a way to do it. :P
The problem is in the buggy behaviour of the original charge more than anything else.
What has happened, happened. But the real question now is when are the “real” bugs going to be addressed?
Yes ofc. But at the same time, how is that an argument for this not being the intended behaviour. Specifically, do you really think someone did this to nerf Mesmers? That seems awfully convoluted a way to do it. :P
It’s obvious what the ‘intended’ behavior was now, but making arguments that say ‘oh, the tooltip said this, so I knew all along it was wrong’ are completely absurd.
It’s also obvious that this wasn’t done specifically to nerf mesmers. However, it’s very clear that it was done with complete and total disregard to the actuality of the game. It’s very clear that the developers don’t appreciate the mechanics and functionality of skills and balance.
What has happened, happened. But the real question now is when are the “real” bugs going to be addressed?
At this point, does it really even matter? Say the clone gets to the target every time. Well, now they autoattack it once and it’s as if you didn’t use the skill.
Say the warden spins every time. Well, now a lot of bosses use unreflectable projectiles, so it’s as if you didn’t use the skill.
Say Illusionary Elasticity got fixed. Well, it still won’t improve mesmers in group wvw, still won’t make them suddenly viable in tPvP, and obviously won’t improve the situation in PvE either.
They can fix all the bugs they want. Unfortunately, mesmers will still be nigh-unplayable. This class needs a major revamp before it can become anything but close to useless.
I blame portal…its all cause of portal. Give portal to warriors. Let them feel, how much fun u can get being utility bot.
Tool tips should have been fixed properly before release, Everyone even new people (unless they are inept players coming from IMVU or some crap) understands how the skills work and if they don’t they go to the wiki.
/wiki should be promoted more and have the devs actively update the wiki. Instead of wasting time however long just to put useless facts into the game or bug fixing around them, when the current functionality is fine. (except in the case of i-leap it needed other things to be fixed or changed.)
A clear cut standard understanding of how a skill works is fine for a tool tip… like the information under a mob.
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
Yes ofc. But at the same time, how is that an argument for this not being the intended behaviour. Specifically, do you really think someone did this to nerf Mesmers? That seems awfully convoluted a way to do it. :P
It’s obvious what the ‘intended’ behavior was now, but making arguments that say ‘oh, the tooltip said this, so I knew all along it was wrong’ are completely absurd.
It’s also obvious that this wasn’t done specifically to nerf mesmers. However, it’s very clear that it was done with complete and total disregard to the actuality of the game. It’s very clear that the developers don’t appreciate the mechanics and functionality of skills and balance.
This. Even if it wasn’t intended, couldn’t they have just changed the tooltip again to match what the skill did? idk for the sake of balance? Baffles me everytime I think about this nerf. I would at least like a response from one of the devs about this issue.
I would at least like a response from one of the devs about this issue.
Ah but this is the great part. Check your calendar and note the date.
I think it’s perfectly understandable that a good amount of Mesmers are seeing red over this. They are touching a skill we have complained about for over a year now. A skill we have said time and time again is not working, because the clone will in a majority of cases when there is the slightest of difference in elevation between you and the target, aka. not a perfectly flat surface and/or a surface with a pebble in the way, not get to the actual target. It will spawn staring at the target, before slowly running over to it (easy to kill, making the skill rather pointless), or it will run nowhere close to the target before it stops, getting distracted and staring at that pebble at its feet, before coming to its senses and slowly running over to the target (again, high chance of it just getting killed before it can be swapped too).
It’s a slap in the face that they touch the skill, but don’t actually fix the major issue with it. I haven’t seen a single individual, ever, complain about a Mesmer swapping to where a clone had been defeated. I usually swap to an alive clone, but there are times where I obviously can’t, such as in a larger scale encounter within WvW, where the clone will die instantly from Guardians pressing 1 repeatedly with their staves out.
How about you fix the functionality of the skill, ArenaNet, at least make it work reliably. Do that before you touch up on other things that nobody complains about. Nobody in this case would include every other class, not just Mesmers.
Seafarer’s Rest
(edited by Absconditus.6804)
Sigh ANET…. Hit me really nice with this iLeap Nerf. I so sad.
It’s true mesmer mechanic is more for 1v1 battle but i always think to compensate that mesmer have Sword #3, 2s base immob every 6s if with 40% CDR which is the best in the Game. A high risk high reward that can game changing in zerging/ Team fight. Now that Sword #3 is… Gone… I don’t feel confident either if i can make a swap in zerging/ Team fight coz the random AOE damage from enemy side.
This is just so sad. Mesmer normally have good set up kill abilities like Stun 2s From Pistol or 2s Immob AOE from Sword #3. Now… Lost 1. Mesmer already have weak #1 Melee cleave so it’s normal if they have set up kill to compensate that. Now what? No set up kill? A “Agile” Type Melee class must toe to toe with Pure Brute Force Class like WA and Guard?
It’s true ANET u are following ur game concept. Mesmer will become weak if they have no Illusions but this is just too far…..
TL:DR. I sad for this nerf and i;m QQing now.
Uncertain times are these. This bug fix came out of absolutely no where and wasn’t confirmed as a bug until it was actually fixed which is weird and kind of frustrating. In the context of what has been happening to this class recently it’s not surprising to see so many outraged.
Now….what will happen to Mimic? Will it lose the non-projectile block functionality or will the tooltip be further updated? Answers on a postcard to Pyro’s banned account.
I dont think this “bugfix” was intended. They managed to add another bug as they do every patch. This time they put it in the changelog and call it a bugfix.
This is probably the best explanation.
Uncertain times are these. This bug fix came out of absolutely no where and wasn’t confirmed as a bug until it was actually fixed which is weird and kind of frustrating. In the context of what has been happening to this class recently it’s not surprising to see so many outraged.
Now….what will happen to Mimic? Will it lose the non-projectile block functionality or will the tooltip be further updated? Answers on a postcard to Pyro’s banned account.
As much as I love it, I’m not sure it matters. There’s no room after decoy, blink, and a condi cleanse.
… and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Hyperbole!
No it’s not.
Mesmer isn’t viable at high level tpvp, and hasn’t been for over a year.
Mesmer is only useful for portal/veil/null field in large group WvW. You can’t do damage, you can’t tag, why play?
Mesmer does lower damage than most other classes in PvE. We have (had?) good reflects, but much of our reflect ability is bound to the iWarden, which is the least functional skill in the entire game. On top of that, more and more bosses are becoming unreflectable, making our key role less and less needed.
That leaves open world PvE and WvW roaming. Open world PvE doesn’t count for anything, so that leaves WvW roaming. Roaming in anything but a PU condie build is generally a poor idea, as you’ll get gangbanged and killed, and PU power builds have received a massive nerf with this iLeap change.
So. Not hyperbole. Just reality. Lots of good reasons why I’m not playing this game anymore.
Yep, this is the cold truth.
I struggle to let go of Mesmer and this game given how much I’ve invested in it, but at the moment there is nothing much fun when all the variety is slowly stripped away:
- glamour confusion destroyed
- scepter mediocre (unless running PU Condi…)
- focus in a bad spot (not only iwarden but also 1s on itv…)
- image still useless
- mh sword has its teeth pulled out
…
No need to go on with a wall of text, i do not want to be pigeonholed into gs/staff shatter, PU, or a cheesy 1v1 phantasm build. Doesn’t seem to be any other options now.
I blame portal…its all cause of portal. Give portal to warriors. Let them feel, how much fun u can get being utility bot.
Tbh I wouldn’t mind if they deleted portal and veil from the game completely – at least there would be nothing to disguise the poor state this class is in.
It was exploitable because the Swap skill specifically states “Swap places with your Clone. Immobilize nearby foes.” If you have no clone (specifically one spawned by the initial Illusionary Leap skill) you can’t swap places with one. The fact that people were still able to after the clone was destroyed means this was a bug and therein could be exploited if utilized in certain ways, such as Blinking away from your immobile foes.
You have no idea of what you are talking about, sry.
Make WvW Eventful! – WvW, 4 years in
Yes, I have 5 lv 80 mesmers – Funny Puns
Why… there’s a list of 30+ other bugs and you choose this? I notice my warden is still quite skilled at standing around.
sigh
Okay, back to engineer… or maybe wildstar.
lets look at what this “exploit” is
the trick was that a mesmer could swap to the clones location after the clone died wiiiiithin a 4 second window….oh and only 600 units MAX toward that location….dont get the immobilize if out of range
without using the trick aka letting the clone live the effectiveness remains EXACTLY the same. if anything its better to have the clone out if it lives because it will home in on the target like a heat seeking missile.
utilizing the “exploit” was also not easy. because
1)have a target
2) be in range
3) destroy the clone either with a shatter or allowing the target to destroy it
4) move away from the location
5)use it in a very short window before the skill went on cd.
wow….soooo easy to do…and so effective…sarcasm
explain to me how swapping to the location of were the clone was changes the effectiveness of the skill?
just because it has the text “swap places with your clone” MEANS NOTHING.
why?
the skills main purpose and effectiveness WAS NOT SIMPLY swapping places with a clone. swapping places with a clone iS USELESS!!!!
the main purpose and effectiveness WAS blinking to the CLONES LOCATION and immobilizing nearby targets.
THAT purpose and effectiveness remains the same REGARDLESS if you swap before or after the clone is dead.
NOW though with the clone dead its total effectiveness has been reduced DRASTICALLY.
not because we can no longer use a “exploit” but instead because of undeniable fact that we can no longer fulfill the purpose and effectiveness the skill originally had which is to swap to the location off the clone and immobilize targets IF IN RANGE
additionally it forces us TO SPAM the skill before our clone dies or if want to shatter at all. not only does it nerf the skill but it also forces us in to spam and rush play styles pushing us away from timing/skilled play and in to 1 trick ponies.
its just a level of B.S.
not a bug. just a nerf
(edited by Chaos.3579)
Dev logic.
Q. How to nerf a mesmer?
A. Just “fix” skills in PVE update.
Q. Why to nerf mesmer?
A. Because he is OP in sPVP, PVE and WvW. And he can port too. Without time limit. You know, that time write under your fixed portal skill.
Q. So this class can keep his name?
A. We just fixed that too: his name will be “MEH…MER”.
Member of [DEEP]
Dev logic.
Q. So this class can keep his name?
A. We just fixed that too: his name will be “MEH…MER”.
meh mer
XD OMG. beautiful!!!! you have explained mesmers issue with such little words!!!!!!!!
hahaha sorry, just had to post, meh mer is amazing!
On a more serious note, why is there ‘tumbleweed’ from the devs? their lack of responses to the complaints about this class is baffling.
I stopped playing my favorite class after the bugs started getting to me, so my meh mer is now sitting somewhere in LA with Sunrise and full ascendant gear contemplating a quick way out of this world..
Now that I think about it, the reserved stunbreak was probably the best part of the skill. I just can’t count how many times I used it at Boom Boom with all those untelegraphed saboteur explosions or Boom Boom’s large AoE main bomb when I ran out of dodges and evades.
Q. So this class can keep his name?
A. We just fixed that too: his name will be “MEH…MER”.
This thread wants it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Jokes-2/ Seriously, it’s awesome.
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
Maguuma
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?
And I also laugh when Fay says mesmer isn’t good in WvW … Uhm, many good and top tier GvG groups utilize mesmers in their snipe groups to take out classes BECAUSE of the damage they do with shatter. The amount of bad is unreal and people trying to make cases that are just not true.
Maguuma
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?
Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.
Maguuma
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?
Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.
Call me, when ull see any of those “usefull” mesmers without portal.
Hmm.. true true.. kitten ed if they do, kitten ed if they don’t. Although my main concern is still MH Pistols (I want it so bad ._.), a buff to the class that’s beneficial without being broken is what’s most important. Leveling a mesmer is a huge nightmare compared to the other classes mainly because of the low Self-Damage Output and having little to no control over your illusions and where they are/when they attack. It wouldn’t be so bad if each one had an autoattack they used before their big hit coolsdown (Phantasmal Duelist, for example, would unload upon spawning, just shoot for low-ish damage after, then unload after 6 seconds.) and if you could give simple orders like “On me!” (Stops attacking and follows), “RUSH EM!” (Melee run in and attack, ranged stops where they are and attacks), and “Disperse!” (Each goes to how they act now). I’d gladly take this over the Shatter mechanic.
To clarify, this idea is a heavily simplified version of the Mastermind from CoH which is what I view the Mesmer as.
This just shows how extremely new to mesmer you are, that you don’t have a clue about the class. Did you even hit 80 yet?
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?
Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.
Call me, when ull see any of those “usefull” mesmers without portal.
Uhm, if you’re trying to say because portal is an insanely effective utility out of many that the mesmer has is the only reason mesmer exists then you’re kittening kittened. Mesmer is used as a sniper in WvW GvG’s (portal isn’t used at all here by the way) and mesmer is used as a bunker node buster in top tier PvP. The reason why mesmer exists in tPvP isn’t solely because of it’s portal abilities, although the high skill cap it brings in having to coordinate your team around using it is really good but the biggest reason mesmer is used is for the boon stripping capabilities. Necro’s boon stripping isn’t as good because necro doesn’t have as good of survivability (mesmers: blink , invis with constant detargetting, stun breaks – necros get DS and are the focus target from the start) and would need much larger peels. This is why mesmer exists in tPvP. It destroys and breaks down bunkers guardians, and it destroys warriors and it destroys engineers in team fights because it wrecks their boons aka defense. They could also bring moa if they wanted and completely wreck bunker guardians but most bring mass invis to assist in ressing downed players/peels/offensive motives (mass invis a group and assault far, etc)
Maguuma
(edited by blitzkrieg.2451)
Exploiting is using mechanics that do not work the way they were intended and can give the player a potentially significant edge over those who do not use it/cannot use it. This can also apply to using mechanics which do work in ways they were not intended to be used which, once again, give a significant edge over those who do not/cannot. Classic examples of former include the infamous Bottomless Box glitch from Dark Souls and the Power Island from Ultima 1 which gave you a weapon that was better than the one you were holding and could be used infinitely, resulting in a very low level character being able to steamroll most things. The latter include the BubbleHearthing Paladin from World Of Warcraft and the Slots-Pause cheat in Final Fantasy VI.
Yeah, the problem is that this has been working as intended for almost 2 years. All of a sudden they come up and apparently it’s a ‘bug’ now. That’s not ok, particularly when the skill itself is still broken enormously, and mesmer is no longer good at doing anything in the game other than roaming as a condie build.
Yet Lord Helseth exists. A guy who dominates on shatter mesmer without sword/x in some of the most top tier pvp you could imagine on this game. But yea, you’re right, only good for roaming with condi builds…. Smh
Yes, I agree, Lord Helseth exists. He’s one of many experienced Mesmers who play GW2 (highly self publicized, with a highly inflated ego no less) but as far as authority figures go quoting his name is redundant as he’s the wrong kind of authority if any. Therefor your argument is invalid. Though Pyro already made a solid counter case, since he’s not using sword Helseth is irrelevant to the discussion.
It’s very relevant, Fay flat out said the only thing mesmer is good for is roaming in wvw with condi builds. That’s simply not true, it’s not my fault Fay and whoever agrees with Fay is a bad mesmer and can’t get good. My point in pointing out Helseth was exactly to disprove that current logic that Fay tried to type in the forums.
Seriously, learn to play if you think mesmer is only good for roaming with condi builds.
U right. mesmer is also useful as portal bot. Happy?
Stripping boons, high burst damage in teams , cc , mass invisibility… Yea, portal bot. Get good if you don’t know how to play mesmer effectively, quit kittening crying.
Call me, when ull see any of those “usefull” mesmers without portal.
Uhm, if you’re trying to say because portal is an insanely effective utility out of many that the mesmer has is the only reason mesmer exists then you’re kittening kittened. Mesmer is used as a sniper in WvW GvG’s (portal isn’t used at all here by the way) and mesmer is used as a bunker node buster in top tier PvP. The reason why mesmer exists in tPvP isn’t solely because of it’s portal abilities, although the high skill cap it brings in having to coordinate your team around using it is really good but the biggest reason mesmer is used is for the boon stripping capabilities. Necro’s boon stripping isn’t as good because necro doesn’t have as good of survivability (mesmers: blink , invis with constant detargetting, stun breaks – necros get DS and are the focus target from the start) and would need much larger peels. This is why mesmer exists in tPvP. It destroys guardians, and it destroys warriors and it destroys engineers in team fights because it wrecks their boons aka defense. They could also bring moa if they wanted and completely wreck bunker guardians but most bring mass invis.
I’ll let someone else argue about GvG, because its not an official game mode in this game. So yeah. I know nothing about it. But dont see, how mesmer could be better than thief in this too.
Now about spvp. Mesmer is balanced around portal. Every time dev teams thinks about nerfing our hand weapon skills, they have in head: “Meh….they will be fine! Portal is so op, that they can do nothing but porting and still be very useful in their team.”
Yeah….boon stripping is useful….but only in limited scenarios. I doubt teams would take mesmer just for that.
great ilieap confirmed absolutely useless in wvw now. why not just remove the class and start a new one from scratch. this one is beyond broken and all we get is nerf after nerf because of a 1v1 encounter with new players……
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood