Guild Wars 2

Trying to make the best possible PvE mesmer build for leveling, I’m lvl 64 now with 20/4/0/0/30/ Trying to get by with phantasms doing all my damage. Some guides say go Sword/Focus, some say Sword/Sword, all of them say Greatsword which seems to be working out alright.

But I can’t decide overall, Sword/Focus, or Sword/Sword? Sword/Pistol? Something Completely different? Should i even use greatsword for a phantasm build? and how are my talents and utilities as well? I use the health signet, Feedback, and Blink, and The Druid Summon.

Sorry for the confusion. I’ll post a pic as well.

Can’t really go wrong with either Focus, Sword, or Pistol.

Most people like Focus for the access to swiftness + it’s general utility in dungeons.
But I prefer sword.

Focus has a stationary phantasm which is sometimes a bother (you aren’t traiting it so reflections don’t matter)
Pistol #5 hits three (or four) targets, which can sometimes aggro something you don’t want aggroed.

I guess what I’m basically looking for is an entire Phantasm leveling build xD I just finished a Main Story quest with an offhand prize and I have no idea what way to go lol. Guess I’ll stick with the focus for now.

But any guide recommendations or any guidelines of how to build a solo leveling phantasm mesmer are what im looking for basically.

I’ve only just started playing the game, but I’ve found this guide to be very nice. There are several useful builds in there, along with some great ideas.

Kai’s Compendium

For the weapons in a Phantasm build you gonna use Sword that’s for sure. After that its you choice.

Best DPS you gonna need Sword in main hand for both your primary and secondary weapons set. If you want a backup plan to go in range in dangerous situation you need the greatsword as your secondary weapons set. GS is less DPS but if you need to range sometime then its your best choice.

After that you all three next off hand weapons are good :
- Focus is less DPS overal (but better burst if used right). It give you swiftness, reflects (if traited for it) and a nice little pull.
- Pistol is probably the best for DPS.
- Sword is between Pistol and Focus for DPS and it have a nice block.

If you go for Greatsword. Then you should either go for Sword/Focus for the utilies (switfness and reflect) or Sword/Pistol for better DPS.
If you go for no Greastsword. Then you should always have Sword/Pistol for primary and then for secondary off hand either use Focus for utilies or Sword for DPS.

Choose your weapons and then you will be able to choose your traits.

Go Sword/Sword and Sword/Pistol

Grok Krog.9581:

Go Sword/Sword and Sword/Pistol

Definitely highest DPS phantasms, though you’d want different traits than what the OP has. I think the standard trait distribution is based around 10/30/0/0/20. And keep a focus around for utility. If you need the focus, I think /Pistol is better if your phantasms are appropriately traited. Note that Phantasmal Haste doesn’t affect the Zerker (GS) or Swordsman (Sw), so if you’re sticking with GS and Sw/Sw, then you can pick a different trait.

Skills in a DPS oriented group should almost always be the mantra heal (for extra DPS with traits), and a mix of mantras, feedback, signet of inspiration (in a boon heavy group), and possibly null field (but mantra of resolve is competitive with NF now), and of course timewarp.

Now if you mean a shatter build, that’s a completely different ballgame.

Pretty sure the highest DAMAGE phantasm is Focus 5 (but it IS stationary, so needs to be used properly). I run a 10/30/0/0/20 build with Sword/Focus & GS (sometimes Staff).

yeah I’ve been doing GS Sword/Focus forever and I enjoy the mobility focus offers. Pistol sounds like a great alternative though.

Also, is Sword Offhand single target? It seems to be.. If so that’s rather weak compared to other Phantasms is it not?

Focus 5 is an AoE damage (stationary) so if you can get foes clumped up, or lead them into the AoE, it can do MASSIVE damage…..again, very inflexable, but potentially very powerful.

I still havent decided on a weapon other than GS but any recommended Trait builds as well for this strategy?

Duelist, swordsman and warden are your best phantasms. Don’t bother with Greatsword, it’s pretty much our worst weapon next to torch. While levelling I’d say 10 in domination for III and 10 in dueling for II are good starting points, at that point stick more in either dueling, inspiration or illusions. Most damage you do will be single target unless taking part in events, so it’s hardly a drawback so swordsman will be the best phantasm you can use.

swordsman and pistols are great HOWEVER, they are mainly single target focuses and CC from pistols would not be so useful against champs.

I find that in pve you’re going to get a lot of groups of mobs, large swarms or even just you getting in the fray will pull extra mobs. so for Max aoe damage and projectile defense focus is really good. it has the highest total damage of all phantasms. it will take some skill to get mobs to eat it all.

but not too much skill. pve mobs will stick to you if they’re melee, aggro them all run to the ranged mobs if there are and make sure they all follow then pop ur warden phantasms, blurred frenzy, sword leap immobilize to keep them there while u dodge out or move for a little breather or switch weapons. on the other hand you can use the curtain to pull mobs against a wall or something to bunch them up then warden immobilize blurred frenzy etc. those together will deal huge amounts of aoe damage right away and can kill a lot of the mobs you’re against which is necessary to guarantee survival too when being swarmed.

if survivability is any issue at all get a staff as secondary weapon and it synergies well as you can drop chaos storm on your melee illusions after you’re done a sword focus combo to give them aegis etc and daze and CC the mobs you got grouped up and you are free to blink out and kite.

gs for back up ranged weapon but it is a long range weapon meaning ur mobs likely will scatter and chase you or illusions etc.

sword/sword has a nice block which is useful and a phantasm that evades.

but basically if you can manage placement and CC use sword focus

Jackums.3496:

Definitely take focus for PvE. Trait it for reflects.

Don’t listen to people telling you that the greatsword is bad. They’re ignoring context and looking purely at numbers. It’ll allow you to tag enemies better than any other weapon we have in large events, farming, etc. There are a variety of dungeon bosses that ranged strategies are used against, and a lot of the time your phantasms will be destroyed by AoE fairly quickly, meaning you can’t rely wholly on melee damage and your illusions 100% of the time, and the greatsword is a solution to that. More-so, iBerserker is an AoE phantasm with high damage and cripple, whereas both iDuelist and iSwordsman are single-target. They’re certainly not bad, but unless all your care about it numbers and are completely ignoring situational advantage, then there are certainly other, very viable, options. There is no huge disparity between the effectiveness of the greatsword and pistol/off-hand sword unless you’re focusing purely on single-target damage and can safely be in melee range to continue contributing damage when they’re destroyed by AoE, which will be often.

Greatsword is bad. Tagging enemies is not a real argument for trying to claim a weapon is any good, staff can hit five mobs but it’s dps is atrocious and not worth using. There are barely any dungeon that require range and if they do then you’re better off with scepter/pistol since duelist is a ranged phantasm. Almost all combat in this game is single target and if you want aoe there is sword/focus with the cleaving sword auto and aoe phantasmal warden. Stop trying to tell people to be bad, Greatsword is only used by stubborn people or those who don’t know better.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Pretty sure the highest DAMAGE phantasm is Focus 5 (but it IS stationary, so needs to be used properly). I run a 10/30/0/0/20 build with Sword/Focus & GS (sometimes Staff).

Just multitarget. At singletargets, duelist and swordsman deal a LOT more DPS.

Oh, and I need to agree with colesy. Greatsword is a desaster.

@cure – You’ll want to try everything. See what works best for you. I ran GS and S/P for the longest time and loved it. Its not ideal for everything, but its good to see what your class is capable of w/ all options. Check the stickied thread at the top about builds. You want as much to strengthen your phantasms as you can

That being said, with a lot of world events, you might start with ranged weapons, but you’ll want to learn how to melee. Learn how to use distortion effect and agro control to your benefit and learn when to dodge. If you don’t feel comfortable in melee, switch to GS or Scepter range and let the haters hate. If you do go Scepter, you might want to turn off Scepter AA (#1) because it’ll overwrite phantasms if you have 3 currently out (but it’ll leave the others alone and just keep replacing the one clone it makes each time).

There is a good reason why folks are so prickly about melee deeps being the only way to go. You get a cleave with every swing, hitting multiple targets and melee in this game will always do more damage than ranged (a risk v reward thing). If you can learn to stay in there close, timing your evades and blocks to hit the heavy stuff, you’ll do a lot more damage faster than anyone ranged, but… downed dps is all ranged. So… play how it best suits you. If you want to, try the champ train through Queensdale with each set to see how each situationally works for you. It also gives you a chance to practice melee skills and situational awareness in a place where 20 people can rez you so you can get better before you do a dungeon where 4 other folks will really depend on you staying up.

I would say GS is fine. Not the best, but it gets the job done. ESPECIALLY tagging in events… Just like Necro marks/wells, engie bombs/nades, guardian staff, warrior rifle/bow… if it works to tag something faster without putting yourself in danger of downing, its all good. Don’t get suckered into believing everything is either awesome or its kitten. If you have 5 or 10 seconds to get a few good hits on a mob before it goes down, you do what you have to do. Go Zerker full for your equip and Scholar’s or Ruby Orbs to maximize what damage you can do with each wep set. Buy the rare versions of each weapon you want to try before committing to exotics if you aren’t sure what you like and aren’t swimming in gold..

The Mes is an awesome class. Enjoy.

But the GS isn’t fine at all. It does like two thirds of swords damage and has an average phantasm that gets melted by pbaoe versus duelist which is a strong range phantasm on par with swordsman. If you want to range, use scepter since it gives you good off hand weapons and phantasms, like I said, GS is just used by bads, stubborn players or people who don’t know better because there truly is almost zero real reasons to use it which aren’t completely inane like apparently being good at tagging trash when cleave is the better option which gs can’t do.

He’s talking about solo levelling. GS is definately not bad in that sense.

Scepter? Not sure about that, haven’t used it for a year or so, but are you sure it would really fit to a phantasm mesmer? With the useless clone on the end of the AA chain?

I think im sticking with GS it’s ability to aoe and safe distance phantasm and knockback cast are great. (plus I bought a skin for it)

Any thoughts on a trait build? seems that the general consensus for secondary are Sword/Focus.

Still welcome to any other ideas, not using the skin isnt the end of the world. I’m just really uncertain about my current trait build, 20/20/0/0/30
Empowered Illusions: 15% more illusion dmg
Greatsword Training: power +50 recharge reduced 20%
Compounding Power: Damage increase 3% per illu
Illusionary Elasticity: 1 extra bounce on bouncing attacks
Phantasmal haste: reduces recharge on phantasm attack skills 20%

Also utilities and Elite? what would be the way to go between Take Root, Summon Sylvan Hound, and Summon Druid Spirit? Or is Time warp worth something solo?

CptAurellian.9537:

Scepter? Not sure about that, haven’t used it for a year or so, but are you sure it would really fit to a phantasm mesmer? With the useless clone on the end of the AA chain?

Yep, the auto attack chain is slow, gives you plenty of time to interrupt the 3rd attack with a offhand phantasm, scepter 3 (which does some pretty decent burst damage actually), defensive skill (scepter/sword block, magic bullet) or even a weapon swap back to sword/X

If you view your ranged weapon as something you sit on while waiting for your heal to come back up so you can get back in the melee, then scepter is a very strong option. It also lets you keep close to the melee action so you’re not missing out on boons you’re team mates are passing around.

Maybe I should try it then. Have too many tokens anyway, just the bag space …

In PvE I am actually playing a 100% Phantasm Build with

10/15/0/25/20

I use GS, Sword/Focus.
GS is nice, as you are able to stay in range, while doing damage and the knockback + cripple of your Phantasm give you good controal features.

The Focus Phantasm probably doesnt have the highest damage, but its damage is aoe, applys a lot of bleeds and when traited you focus skills also reflekt projectiles, which is rly usefull.

Knockback … rangers are even worse, but that’s definitely something I’d kill a lot of mesmers for if there was something like friendly Fire in this game.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1cjmri/new_player_guide_to_leveling_a_mesmer_the/

Is what I have used and am having my wife use. It has 2 options a staff variation and a gs/sf both have pros and cons but very well written and up to date leveling guide.

He’s talking about solo levelling. GS is definately not bad in that sense.

Except… it is.

I think im sticking with GS it’s ability to aoe and safe distance phantasm and knockback cast are great. (plus I bought a skin for it)

“My single target weapon is good at aoe” – logic of 95% of mesmers on this forum

Range is irrelevant since mobs will just close distance and illusionary riposte is better than a knockback due to lower cooldown and it’s hard-hitting. The phantasm is average at best.

I use GS, Sword/Focus.
GS is nice, as you are able to stay in range, while doing damage and the knockback + cripple of your Phantasm give you good controal features.

But you won’t be able to stay at range because melee mobs just blindly rush at you. To hell with control, sw/p + sw/sw gives you our two best phantasms, best autoattack, and two hard-hitting evades.

All I’m seeing here is a lot of stubbornness as the people defending GS have yet to give a real reason to use it.

What colesy said. Right on!

PS. my mes is 10/30/0/20/10, sw/f + OH sw swap. I only ever use GS for the last boss in dredge frac – which really needs to be redesigned.

colesy.8490:

But you won’t be able to stay at range because melee mobs just blindly rush at you. To hell with control, sw/p + sw/sw gives you our two best phantasms, best autoattack, and two hard-hitting evades.

So what trait build would you go with?

probably the one I put up earlier. he said sw/p + sw/sw, but you need a focus for pulls and reflects (which is almost everywhere), so sw/f + sw/sw. 10/30/0/20/10, 3x mantras + feedback, or 2x mantras + feedback + sig of insp (or mimic in fracs). zerk/scholars, and a second set of gear w/ centaurs for running. healing mantra has 2x charges, and each charge procs swiftness from the runes.

So what trait build would you go with?

You have a number of choices at level 80.

You can run your average 10/30/0/30/0 build with empowered illusions, phantasmal fury, blade training and either duelist’s discipline or damage modifier per charged mantra, glamour mastery, warden’s feedback and something else. Then there are 10/30/0/20/10, 10/30/0/10/20 and 0/20/0/25/25 variants which I won’t go in to because my keyboard is dying and it’ll take me forever to write a post. You can take a look at my guide for more details.

While levelling, like I said, 10/10/x/x/x with empowered illusions and phantasmal fury I’d say would be a good start, then personally I’d go for 20 in inspiration for focus traiting so you can move around maps faster. Sw/F + Sw/Sw is good for decent phantasms, swiftness and projectile reflection, plus it means you’ll have trained yourself for melee if you do dungeons where meleeing is crucial and very rewarding when you learn how to do it.

PS. my mes is 10/30/0/20/10, sw/f + OH sw swap. I only ever use GS for the last boss in dredge frac – which really needs to be redesigned.

You can actually melee it just fine, for the ice ele, when it makes the freezing cone attack, just get behind it, and when it raises its fist, dodge away as he’ll cast an agony pbaoe. I did this at like fractal 12 on my warrior and when I missed a dodge and died (party was camping range so couldn’t res or rally) it turned out due to me meleeing (and obviously DPS spec) I was carrying almost the entire group’s DPS as he was nearly dead (2%) but they couldn’t finish him off so he got all the way to 50% HP until I got res’d and burned him down.

colesy.8490:

You can run your average 10/30/0/30/0 build with empowered illusions, phantasmal fury, blade training and either duelist’s discipline or damage modifier per charged mantra, glamour mastery, warden’s feedback and something else. Then there are 10/30/0/20/10, 10/30/0/10/20 and 0/20/0/25/25 variants which I won’t go in to because my keyboard is dying and it’ll take me forever to write a post. You can take a look at my guide for more details.

I don’t get why you’re going 10/30/0/30/0 instead of 10/30/0/20/10. I’m guessing it’s because you think the 15% dmg modifier on phantasms is better than the 9% dmg modifier on yourself + the 100 condi dmg from 10 in illusions. I know it’s not when you’re using Feedback on Lupi/Malrona/etc, and I’m somewhat sure it’s not on normal dungeons. I looked at your guide, but it didn’t address this.

Post update, since they’re swapping the 15 and 25 minors in illusions, I was thinking of trying 10/20/0/25/15. I’m not sure if sacrificing 100 prec, 10% crit dmg, and an 8-12% modifier for 100 condi dmg, a 15% modifier on phantasms, and 20% reduced recharge on illusions will be worth it though. Something to test post-update.

Anierna.6918:

Post update, since they’re swapping the 15 and 25 minors in illusions, I was thinking of trying 10/20/0/25/15. I’m not sure if sacrificing 100 prec, 10% crit dmg, and an 8-12% modifier for 100 condi dmg, a 15% modifier on phantasms, and 20% reduced recharge on illusions will be worth it though. Something to test post-update.

Not worth it.

10/30/0/20/10 → instances where projectile defense is needed and others are not there to help pick up the slack

10/30/0/10/20 → instances where projectile defense is covered with other party members or not as needed.

In any case, the OP isn’t level 80 and is doing open world content to level

0/10/0/20/25 or post patch moving IC to 15 points 0/20/0/20/15

You’ll want the focus to just move around the map quicker or getting used to useing it for reflects.

IC will help with getting phantasms out which will be an issue by how quickly things die in the open world.

Still pick up the best offensive gear you can get (mighty/strong/berserker) and any normal/vet will melt in the open world. Throw extra points into dueling and then domination as you get them.

If you want to go at champs solo, put a ranged option on swap and pay close attention to what it is doing so you can learn when to dodge, and fall back to your ranged option to kite for a bit when you start taking too much damage.

Anierna.6918:

In any case, the OP isn’t level 80 and is doing open world content to level

No but I am on my way, level 71 now

If you are levelling open world, I would go GS + Deceptive evasion (dueling 20) + illusions line (to 25), and sword + focus. The burst damage will level normal mobs because burst damage > normal mobs, and no weapon brings more burst to bear in the first 5 seconds of spotting an enemy, unless you start next to them. Sword/focus (or whatever offhand really) for veterans/swap to weapon once you cast izerker on groups. Deceptive evasion because it extends your life by a lot while levelling (and adds burst).

This changes at 80, others have written nice posts there.

I don’t get why you’re going 10/30/0/30/0 instead of 10/30/0/20/10.

I don’t. It’s just a sort of popular build since it hits the two phantasm damage modifiers, weapon traiting and glamour traiting.

Post update, since they’re swapping the 15 and 25 minors in illusions, I was thinking of trying 10/20/0/25/15. I’m not sure if sacrificing 100 prec, 10% crit dmg, and an 8-12% modifier for 100 condi dmg, a 15% modifier on phantasms, and 20% reduced recharge on illusions will be worth it though. Something to test post-update.

I think x/30/x/x/15 may be best post-patch. That lets you hit illusionist’s celerity, compounding power and damage based on number of charged mantras. Then you could stick 10 in domination for empowered illusions, ten in inspiration for glamour mastery and then either five more in illusions for phantasmal haste or five more in domination for dazzling for some nice vuln stacking.

The current high-end meta of 10/30/0/20/10 won’t change in any way, though considering how strong OH sword is and the fact it doesn’t interact with phantasmal haste, it makes 20 in illusions not very desirable if you’re playing optimally.

If you are levelling open world, I would go GS + Deceptive evasion (dueling 20) + illusions line (to 25), and sword + focus. The burst damage will level normal mobs because burst damage > normal mobs

Swordsman and duelist deal higher damage than berserker, so why use greatsword?

Sword/focus (or whatever offhand really) for veterans/swap to weapon once you cast izerker on groups.

Why use focus when a mob just has to move towards you to make the warden just irrelevant since it only moves if its target moves 900 units away? If the veteran as projectiles, sure, but otherwise the only use of focus is swiftness, the fact that warden doesn’t move just makes it annoying to use.

You can cast warden in groups though, no need to use the badzerker for that.

skcamow whined at me in a thread for spreading misinformation and yet he says nothing here, why do people keep suggesting greatsword when not only is it single target, but its single target damage is surpassed by sword, and sword paired with its off hands has better AOE potential with cleave and phantasmal warden?

But of course, if I were to say anything wrong I would be branded a troll. Stay classy mesmer forum.

u can use the warden effectively with some skill and keep ur mobs in place. u get the full warden damage off which is a ton of damage with combos like your sword leap immob and just being there with ur warden so the mobs stick tight to you while you evade and or block attacks. once they ate the damage you can see what to do from there but most of the time they’re dead

in group events however a gs is useful for fast damage and tagging. it is a piercing beam that will tag more than one enemy without needing to actually run to mobs to cleave them when ur out of phantasms to cast. you only have one blink and sword leap at 600 range but countless times while doing group events mainly issues with zergs killing things too fast there’s no way u can make it from 1200 or more range into the mobs to tag every time or like a nearly dead champ. it helps to have that extra gs range to tag

of course ur talking about a 100% success rate of dodges and blocks when solo levelling full melee as well. if soloing champs or even two champs at the same time and tough situations like swarms of 20 risen which I frequently do, and those swarms all attacking at different intervals some ranged some with condi and cc some melee, no you will not have 100% invulnerability by dodging evades distortion block stun etc some damage will seep through and can still pose a threat so it helps to have a ranged option to duck out of. but if I need survivability which isn’t that often unless u play like me which is basically challenge yourself with the toughest things you could ever find, I’d bring out a staff. staff synergises well bc it’s largely a close quarters weapons with the bounce and chaos storm on u and on mobs at same time for defense on you and illusions combo field and damage as well as the extra stun breaker and displacement even when immobilized etc otherwise if you aren’t in danger then yes you can run your full melee for max damage or whatever you feel comfortable with

colesy.8490:

I think x/30/x/x/15 may be best post-patch. That lets you hit illusionist’s celerity, compounding power and damage based on number of charged mantras. Then you could stick 10 in domination for empowered illusions, ten in inspiration for glamour mastery and then either five more in illusions for phantasmal haste or five more in domination for dazzling for some nice vuln stacking.

The current high-end meta of 10/30/0/20/10 won’t change in any way, though considering how strong OH sword is and the fact it doesn’t interact with phantasmal haste, it makes 20 in illusions not very desirable if you’re playing optimally.

Question: for 30 dueling I always have a hard time choosing traits. I want Phantasmal Fury, Blade Training, Duelist’s Discipline and Empowering Mantras, which one benefits me the least when ofc using both swords and pistol?

That’s why I rarely use the pistol in PvE. I often go for a sword/sword and sword/focus. There area often situations where you benefit from AoE more than from another single target dummy, also reflection and cleanse. But as for allways it depends on the enemies. However since last patch when they took away the 100% combo finisher I feel like the pistol traiting isnt worth it since we stay anyway in melee. That’s why I feel 20 in duelling is enough and so I can invest in other traits. Either more utility or more passive damage.

I wouldn t suggest a single target weaponset in order to level.

You need AoEs…..

Sword is AoE, aswell focus. Sword offhand gives you the ablility to focus higher threats and grants protection.

Sword for mainhand always, it’s really not an option.

As for offhand, I mostly go with Focus and Pistol. When I need to range a boss, I make sure all 3 Phantasmal Duelists are up, then just use GS auto-attack. When I’m stacking with a group, 3 Phantasmal Wardens deal incredible damage. If you trait Warden’s Feedback, that’s a total of 3 reflects if you include the Feedback utility.

I run a 0/20/0/25/25 build, all zerker gear. Compounding power is excellent, especially with the reduced cooldowns on Phantasms. I melee only when I’ve got consistent DPS from 3 phantasms, so the damage is quite consistent, and also cause I still suck at dodging. XD

i still think best pve build is shatter with GS…. ._.
Once you get in istances you may want to switch to phantasm builds but in open pve, its all about AoEs and bursts.

colesy.8490:

skcamow whined at me in a thread for spreading misinformation and yet he says nothing here, why do people keep suggesting greatsword when not only is it single target, but its single target damage is surpassed by sword, and sword paired with its off hands has better AOE potential with cleave and phantasmal warden?

But of course, if I were to say anything wrong I would be branded a troll. Stay classy mesmer forum.

To be fair, that was a WvW discussion. Within the context of this thread, I’ve stated my opinion many times on the GS debate. I will gladly credit you to opening my eyes to using MH sword on both sets in dungeons, since most bosses faced are in fact single target. Focus and sword cleave tend to take care of AoE for the most part, though in the midst of this I retain my own opinion that GS is still viable for most dungeon content, if used correctly, but will never be the ideal choice for a min-maxer.

For open world PvE, I do not agree that taking weapons with single target phantasms in both weapon sets is better than taking a GS-Sw/F (which is my perferred set for this format). I’ve actually tried both ways and find I’m limited with a swordsman/duelist in one set and warden in the other. GS-Sw/F is much more efficient for me. You ball mobs up with focus pull, iWarden cleave, BF, switch to GS, iBerserker. If they’re still up (unlikely), Mind Stab the ball and done. I will note, fun factor is pretty high in downing multiple opponents at once with that Mind Stab.

Exceptions to this would be if I want to, say, solo a champion. Again – if single target, I’ll gladly take a single target phantasm in one set.

All in all, open world PvE is generally too easy to split hairs on this though, IMO.

Question: for 30 dueling I always have a hard time choosing traits. I want Phantasmal Fury, Blade Training, Duelist’s Discipline and Empowering Mantras, which one benefits me the least when ofc using both swords and pistol?

Why not all of them? If you are in a situation that requires actual utility skills, stick with pistol traiting, and then if you just need mantras then swap out pistol traiting for empowering mantras since blade training offers 50+ precision and shorter sword CDs which is more relevant. If you want to be lazy just go fury/blade/mantras.

I wouldn t suggest a single target weaponset in order to level.

You need AoEs…..

And yet my experience of levelling before I surrendered to the boredom and gave myself up to the crafting panel is that taking on groups is always a risky proposition while being barely traited and without full lv 80 gear, so rolling in to groups was normally pretty stupid. In essence, no you do not need AoEs and the fact that the users on this forum are finally getting over that is for the better.

As for offhand, I mostly go with Focus and Pistol. When I need to range a boss, I make sure all 3 Phantasmal Duelists are up, then just use GS auto-attack. When I’m stacking with a group, 3 Phantasmal Wardens deal incredible damage. If you trait Warden’s Feedback, that’s a total of 3 reflects if you include the Feedback utility.

Three swordsmen or duelists are better. Conditions have half duration so the bleed stacks drop off quicker, plus swordsmen have faster recharge, using wardens just gives you hundred blades syndrome where you think big number = high DPS. It’s probably why random bads use whirling axe on warriors even though the damage is terrible.

i still think best pve build is shatter with GS…. ._.
Once you get in istances you may want to switch to phantasm builds but in open pve, its all about AoEs and bursts.

Phantasm, swap, phantasm is enough to kill any normal mob in PvE – investing in a lower DPS phantasm (I use OH sword, OH pistol) and using shatter traits is a waste of time.

To be fair, that was a WvW discussion. Within the context of this thread, I’ve stated my opinion many times on the GS debate. I will gladly credit you to opening my eyes to using MH sword on both sets in dungeons, since most bosses faced are in fact single target. Focus and sword cleave tend to take care of AoE for the most part, though in the midst of this I retain my own opinion that GS is still viable for most dungeon content, if used correctly, but will never be the ideal choice for a min-maxer.

It’s about as “viable” as bearbow rangers are. Nobody criticises GS mesmers though because PUGs generally don’t know any better and only dislike bearbows from word of mouth of it being bad.

For open world PvE, I do not agree that taking weapons with single target phantasms in both weapon sets is better than taking a GS-Sw/F (which is my perferred set for this format). I’ve actually tried both ways and find I’m limited with a swordsman/duelist in one set and warden in the other. GS-Sw/F is much more efficient for me. You ball mobs up with focus pull, iWarden cleave, BF, switch to GS, iBerserker. If they’re still up (unlikely), Mind Stab the ball and done. I will note, fun factor is pretty high in downing multiple opponents at once with that Mind Stab.

I’m not really"getting" the switch to GS there. You have the mobs grouped so why not stay in melee rather than losing damage uptime by swapping to a ranged weapon? The mind stab is just a poor attempt wanting to compensate for GS’ zero cleave, and sword auto chain would have dealt the berserker’s damage and more reliably too.

All in all, open world PvE is generally too easy to split hairs on this though, IMO.

hurrrrr it’s easy no point being efficient

Right, and I’m going to get rid of my night, smothering, inquest and undead slaying weapons for COE, COF and SE p1 because it’s super easy.

Of course not, you don’t purposely kitten yourself because “lol easy”, you run a semi-optimal set up (something like force/accuracy in open world) so that you don’t find open world mobs chasing you too frustrating and you can deal with them quickly, and GS isn’t even remotely optimal so there’s no reason to use it.

colesy.8490:

All I’m seeing here is a lot of stubbornness as the people defending GS have yet to give a real reason to use it.

I have to think much of it is the fact that PvE is survivable with a sub-par weapon (in most cases) and it frankly, looks pretty cool…. Way too much in PvE is all about how good (at least, YOU think) your toon looks.

colesy.8490:

For open world PvE, I do not agree that taking weapons with single target phantasms in both weapon sets is better than taking a GS-Sw/F (which is my perferred set for this format). I’ve actually tried both ways and find I’m limited with a swordsman/duelist in one set and warden in the other. GS-Sw/F is much more efficient for me. You ball mobs up with focus pull, iWarden cleave, BF, switch to GS, iBerserker. If they’re still up (unlikely), Mind Stab the ball and done. I will note, fun factor is pretty high in downing multiple opponents at once with that Mind Stab.

I’m not really"getting" the switch to GS there. You have the mobs grouped so why not stay in melee rather than losing damage uptime by swapping to a ranged weapon? The mind stab is just a poor attempt wanting to compensate for GS’ zero cleave, and sword auto chain would have dealt the berserker’s damage and more reliably too.

Because a one second switch gets you more damage than sword cleave in an AoE phantasm followed by a decent AoE damage spike. Not to mention any on swap proc’ing sigils you may have (depending on your gear setup). Am I wrong about this?

All in all, open world PvE is generally too easy to split hairs on this though, IMO.

hurrrrr it’s easy no point being efficient

Right, and I’m going to get rid of my night, smothering, inquest and undead slaying weapons for COE, COF and SE p1 because it’s super easy.

Of course not, you don’t purposely kitten yourself because “lol easy”, you run a semi-optimal set up (something like force/accuracy in open world) so that you don’t find open world mobs chasing you too frustrating and you can deal with them quickly, and GS isn’t even remotely optimal so there’s no reason to use it.

One can be as efficient as they want to be. Your definition of efficient is maxing all out. Great, that works for you. It works for me too. Others it doesn’t and believe it or not, instead of going pure glass and furiously worrying constantly about your surroundings, dodging, etc, it may come as a big surprise to you that some people actually enjoy “strolling” through open world PvE versus “sprinting”. Right or wrong at that point becomes opinion.

colesy.8490:

Question: for 30 dueling I always have a hard time choosing traits. I want Phantasmal Fury, Blade Training, Duelist’s Discipline and Empowering Mantras, which one benefits me the least when ofc using both swords and pistol?

Why not all of them? If you are in a situation that requires actual utility skills, stick with pistol traiting, and then if you just need mantras then swap out pistol traiting for empowering mantras since blade training offers 50+ precision and shorter sword CDs which is more relevant. If you want to be lazy just go fury/blade/mantras.

Good point there To elaborate my question a bit: Does the mantra trait really do that much difference? I feel like my phantasms is doing all the work for me and my dmg is trivial, maybe I’ve just missed a great part that my own char can do.

For leveling I worked with Sw/Sw and GSword. Decent tools and aoe. Sword traits easily.

The great GS debate.. IMHO GS is a solid power based ranged option. In my testing GS is only 5% to 15% behind Sw/X depending on build and number of phantasms on the board. I carry GS and switch it out with /Pistol depending on the content. As others have said Sw/Sw and Sw/P or Sw/F will produce higher DPS as well as keep you in melee buff range. But running GS won’t make you a ‘bad’ if you know how to use it.

Blood~

while I was levelling and even now at maxed out gear I challenge myself no matter what content I do. in pve levelling I went to maps 5 levels higher and solo’d groups of mobs. same level is better but I ALWAYS solo swarms. that to me makes you a better player at least puts you on your feet for that capacity. single target fights are extremely boring. I will only feel good when I push myself so I can barely survive but most of the time with the Mesmer class it is extremely capable of soloing lots of content.

on the other hand there is almost never a time that you don’t accidentally pull nearby mobs . you’re likely to have two or three at one time in a lot of places. so AoE in PvE is important

same with champs sometimes you will have extra adds that spawn and you need to deal with it and I don’t even have to switch targets when I let my aoe deal with it

for survivability bc I push myself so much I use staff sword focus, which again is good synergy bc staff is actually a close quarters weapon, bounce and chaos storm both protecting and damaging the swarm at the same time with stun breaks and displacement it’s just great before u jump bak in for your power bursts. otherwise I swap around to whatever is best when I don’t need survivability

but really in pve bc the content is mostly so easy why wouldn’t you push yourself ? You could rush right into the middle of 20 risen and see if you can finish the event myself. soloing dungeons are always fun as well

I’m just not a min max speed run kind of person that is too repetitive and dull for me

if anything id recommend for players in PvE to go AoE and do more than just an easy single target