Guild Wars 2

With a spec of 30-20-0-20-0 my GS AA often hits for 3500. Way better than any other ranged AA of any other class I’ve played yet. That’s my personal GS spec.

Personally though I hate GS except for PVE in which case it’s great.

Godmoney.2048:

With a spec of 30-20-0-20-0 my GS AA often hits for 3500. Way better than any other ranged AA of any other class I’ve played yet. That’s my personal GS spec.

Personally though I hate GS except for PVE in which case it’s great.

Yeah it’s great in PvE and WvW Zergs (with sigil of fire) — it’s the best ranged option we have for mob tagging.

I typically don’t use it in PvP only because the damage drops off significantly at close range (but that’s what a second weapon set is for). It depends what you’re facing and your role. The GS will chew up some classes like shortbow ranger, but is obviously weak at close range combat.

The tool tip data is pretty much never accurate. Also, if there is “3x=900” that means that all three hits together do that damage. Longbow ranger is pretty poor dps (just autoattack) too, though. Compare it to thief, warrior or elementalist dps (aa+lava font).
Also, Ele LH is a weapon which has an autoattack. With the trait conjurer you have 100% LH uptime. Picking it up once each 30 seconds really isn’t that much loss in dps.

Greatsword is pretty epic. Here is a 4 second takedown (15k damage) at range in wvw.

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

jportell.2197:

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

3400 power or attack? I have full exotic zerker gear minus one ring and don’t come close to 3400 power and I know ascended is not anywhere near that big of a stat difference. I sit at 2247 power which equates to around 3347 attack.

3400 attack total.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

jportell.2197:

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

3400 power or attack? I have full exotic zerker gear minus one ring and don’t come close to 3400 power and I know ascended is not anywhere near that big of a stat difference. I sit at 2247 power which equates to around 3347 attack.

I just find it overall ridiculous how hard a zerker mesmer has to try to keep up with Tue DPS OF just about every other class in the game.

And then there is this, no this is not my personal damage on my engi but I can get pretty close. 8k auto’s on a 1/2 second attack time, there is no aftercast time after the first auto goes off. Yes I know it’s basically a melee example but still huge huge disparity between even what a mes can hit with their sword auto even with the same conditions of 25 might 25 vuln and warrior banner. For credit sake I will link to the thread now.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/PvE-Dungeon-Speedrun-Zerk-Build/first#post2560382

jportell.2197:

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

You just compared a 1200 range whirling AOE CC ability to 2 rooted, channeled melee burst abilities (Rapid Fire is a 4s channel, too). Of course your zerker is not going to match single target DPS. NEVER expect it to. Throw 3 warlocks at that target instead and then tell me how your DPS compares to your friends’.

If you want something quicker, in 4s (comparable to 100b and RR channel) you can create 3 clones -> swap/BF/MW/COF -> Illusion Sig -> MI+dodge -> MW/COF for 25K+ AOE!, then repeat a BF/MW combo every 10s or switch to warlocks/swordsmen.

And then we go on a very long cooldown before doing it again (90s) meanwhile thieves AOE cleave pistol whip hits for way more than our BF MW combo and warriors can repeat 100 blades every 8s. Like I said and you just showed with ur keyboard concerto example mesmers have to pull way more stops to come close to damage other classes can pull much easier much more often.

Everyone knows mesmers have a higher skill ceiling than warriors. But you also ignored the easy, even higher DPS way I mentioned. Warlocks and swordsmen are easy single button pushes that produce more DPS than a warrior or thief once you get up to speed. You were comparing a single fire and forget summon’s damage (of which we are balanced to have up to 3) versus channeled burst skills; that is not exactly even terms either.

Yeah, not all classes do DPS or burst the same way. Warriors and thieves are fast burst, rangers and mesmers require pets. We (mesmers) take a little longer to setup or cannot rotate as fast, but once we get going no can keep up or it’s harder to mitigate, respectively.

Gaiawolf.8261:

jportell.2197:

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

You just compared a 1200 range whirling AOE CC ability to 2 rooted, channeled melee burst abilities (Rapid Fire is a 4s channel, too). Of course your zerker is not going to match single target DPS. NEVER expect it to. Throw 3 warlocks at that target instead and then tell me how your DPS compares to your friends’.

If you want something quicker, in 4s (comparable to 100b and RR channel) you can create 3 clones -> swap/BF/MW/COF -> Illusion Sig -> MI+dodge -> MW/COF for 25K+ AOE!, then repeat a BF/MW combo every 10s or switch to warlocks/swordsmen.

Not to mention, even with three warlocks up, and traited for phantasms, on a boss type target with every condition in the game they normally hit for what 11-12k every 5+ seconds, sounds great until you realize that is little over 6k dps assuming they all stay alive the entire time, which as we all well know just is not always feasible and the time it takes to actually get three iLocks up. Mesmer is capable of putting out some respectable damage under the right conditions, but the conditions for it to do so are fairly random and largely out of the control of the mesmer from fight to fight, ie the ability to reflect, or actually keep all the phants alive, their ai which lets face it is basically non existent, how much and what type of aoe you are facing (aetherblade retreat anyone?), and it spends a large portion of time trying to setup those abilities. By the way it’s much the same argument made in regards to ranger’s poor performance in certain scenarios, so much of the damage is reliant upon a easily destroyed damage source with poor ai characteristics. So it is clear, I love my mesmer and it is one of the more enjoyable classes for me to play, but I fully accept that when it comes to doing reliable high damage it just is not the class for that.

Lately given the condition meta in tPvP it really is not particularly strong there either since in order to get the condi removal and other tools needed to stay alive you have to give up the utilities and traits and weapons that allow you to do any significant damage. You can still do hotjoin sPvP and have some margin of success, and wvw solo roaming is still fantastic on a mesmer, if you are lucky enough to be on a server that is not a zerg fest that is, otherwise you are just a utility bot. Damage just isn’t Mesmer’s particular strong suit when compared to other classes, but that’s ok in my mind because it is still all around a fantastic class to play.

jportell.2197:

And then we go on a very long cooldown before doing it again (90s) meanwhile thieves AOE cleave pistol whip hits for way more than our BF MW combo and warriors can repeat 100 blades every 8s. Like I said and you just showed with ur keyboard concerto example mesmers have to pull way more stops to come close to damage other classes can pull much easier much more often.

And this is why I started playing warrior.

:3

Lol everybody is complaining about mesmer 1v1 even now, after all the updates, that mesmer dps is insane. People running dungeons ask for a zerker mesmer not just for its utilities but also for its ranged damage, where other classes can just tank the bosses, they want the mesmer to stay alive for dps. And it is true, but what kind of damage you want depends.

Shatter mesmers can hit like 10k + in a split moment easily and you will see wvw videos of how they really crush people like paper. Condi mesmers also has a ton of damage not from seeing huge numbers pop up on your screen.

Though some classes like some have said their autoattack sword swing may hit for 5k already, or a thief’s burst damage etc is insane. But keep in mind that THEY also have conditions for them to hit that much. For example, warrior 100b, has to be melee, the target can’t be moving or able to dodge. If facing a mesmer, a mesmer can easily blink or phase retreat or blurred frenzy or something to evade stuff like that. Same for a thief, they also need the situation to be right to LAND their bursts. For people who know how to fight thieves you will notice they say thieves are no problem, because they know the rhythm of thief attacks and how to dodge, how to block etc. Mesmers have a ton of evasion.

Mesmers also need their situation, but so do all classes. Mesmers may seem like they need to do a lot more to land the same damage, but, it’s really the same relatively. And it’s really not that hard for a shatter mesmer to dodge two times, or do a mirror images, or this or that, illusions come non stop, its not hard to set up at all + shatter mesmers have their own persona shatter. Blink in shatter and blurred frenzy combos, staff combos, illusions come out super fast and the burst damage is quite easy if you’re used to the class.

Any good player can get a ton of damage in. You can’t compare classes really, it’s up to player style and skill. The question might be how often can mesmers get in their damage as opposed to thieves or something? I actually think mesmers get in their damage much more, because they have a lot more versatility and damage comes from so many sources. Thieves will need to LAND the hit and good players can easily predict and defend against such melee hits.

In my opinion, all classes are nicely balanced already. Depending on your play style and build you can easily do what you want to do. There are tons of zerker mesmers who dish incredible damage and you see people complaining about them, yet they are survivable because of their utilities… so…. mesmers are definitely not weak at all. U need to take all considerations into mind

For PvE:

I’ve recently dumped 10/10/0/25/25 (Phantasm) in favor of 10/10/30/20/0 (“Boon Maestro”) and carry GS/Staff/S-F (Swap weapon sets depending on the fight). For Runes I use Altruism and I also run Sigil of Battle on every weapon set. I still wear full berserker so my base damage isn’t any lower and I trade the 15% extra phantasm damage, and 20% lower phantasm summoning time for the ability to provide the myself and the entire party with 25 stacks of might with Signet of Inspiration.

For PvP:

As most people have already attested, mesmer burst is great when traited properly. The only problem is that traiting in that fashion leaves you quite vulnerable — particularly to conditions.

Some skill-coefficients per second:
Mesmer GS #1: 0.675 (>900 range)
pZerker: 0.4167
Mesmer Sword #1: 0.96 (w/o boon)
Mesmer Sword blurred frenzy: 1.2632
pSwordsman: 0.4255

Ranger Longbow #1: 0.9 (>1000)
Ele LH #1: 1.4286
Warrior Axe #1: 1.4583
Necro Dagger #1: 1.3659

Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Damage_calculation

All i have to say is that this post is just stupid, and now my sides hurt

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Use a staff, cast 2 illusions with your skill #3 and one clone from your skill #2.

Watch the 3k-4.5k numbers go up as you auto attack and use your number 5.

are you kidding me?

you think 3k-4.5k damage is good?

Holy crap.

Okay, just for a little bit of background for you..

my warlocks hit for 16k just with conditions on the mob alone, if I also have might they can hit for well over 20k each. On world bosses where they’re pretty safe from being one shot, yes, I can have 3 warlocks sitting out there while I sword autoattack and blurred frenzy and do a lot of damage consistently.

Take that to a dungeon where #1, there usually aren’t maxed out on every condition in the game to give it 90% damage bonus, and #2, there are a lot more attacks that can one shot them, and having more than 2 phantasms out at a time, much less 2 of the same phantasm is very rare.

as for “they have more health in pve” yes, I know, in PVP they have 2k health, in PVE they have 7k health base, +40%, they’re still about 10k, meaning they still get 1 shot by PVE bosses. You cannot hope for them to survive and do sustained dps in dungeons or fractals. 10/10/0/25/25 relies on phantasms staying alive and continuing to do damage, but they also lose 20% crit damage and 10% crit chance. The result is less burst damage for certain, and the gain to sustained dps is rather dubious as you do lose bleeding and you do lose damage on your crits adding up, for a few seconds off recharge time.

Btw guys, all I see in your examples of how “good” mesmer “dps” is is ALL BURST damage.

When people are talking about mesmers having one of the lowest dps’ in the game, they’re talking sustained. Yeah I know I can iwarden/jump in/blurred frenzy/dodge/mind wrack/signet of illusions/izerker/mirror blade/dodge/mind wrack and get a lot of damage out really fast, but then I’m left with autoattacks for a solid 10-15s, after I just blew everything in under 10s.

I dunno, does it matter? Most fights, both PvE and PvP are over pretty quickly in GW2, and burst generally is king, in which context we can do pretty well. OTOH, when it comes down to sustained damage on a boss, again, we can do pretty well with 3 iWarlocks up (which there’s plenty of time to get up and keep up, and they don’t usually die often if you’re positioned right) and a boss with a mess of conditions.

(See those noticeable little “steps” being taken out of the boss’s health fairly regularly? That’s your iWarlocks Under those specific conditions (heh) their damage is HUGE.)

idk, most people when talking about dps, are talking about burst damage. After all “damage per second”, if you have crazy burst damage, your “damage per second” spikes during that time, and becomes your “record damage per second”. People will use that as their reference point. It’s hard to talk about sustained damage, because like people have said, phantasms getting out, or even for other classes, what skills do you use? what weapons do you use? do you spam every skill + weapon swap to count this towards “dps” or do you only calculate autoattack sustain?? There’s no point of reference. The burst dps record is their point of reference. If you can consistently dish that burst dps, then that’s what your build and class is capable of.

I’ve ran a lot of dungeons, my mesmer is king in dungeons. People ask for mesmers , especially zerker mesmers in dungeons.

1) One friend used to say this alot, dead dps is no dps. If you’re talking about dungeons, you know how survivable a good mesmer is with all its evasion and so on. In fact, many dungeons, especially way back in the day when things were crazy, i am the last one standing, despite having a bunker guardian etc. Cuz i mean they’re trying to tank heavy boss hits, while mesmers are great for kiting, evading, stun breaking, etc. + with a survivable mesmer build, you can tank hits AND evade

2) Dungeon bosses takes forever to kill most of the time, you certainly have more than enough time to get up your phantasms. Secondly, you have two weapon sets, thats almost immediately two phantasms out. If placed right they are fine. I also run gs/staff, both phantasms survive for long bc the zerker spins out of the way, warlock stays at ranged. Thirdly, you have traits or even without traits, phantasms recharge in few/several seconds. If they die, you put out a new one soon. If you’re shatter, they get off their hit, shatter them, move on to the next one. Often in dungeon strategy, they do get one shot AFTER, but usually they can land their first attack. Then you shatter them as well. These are all part of your damage, and it is NOT hard to get out that phantasm damage often.

3) We also need to count our utilities as dps. Mesmers often run temporal curtain reflects, warden reflects, feedback, time warp and so on. This affects our damage (and party damage as well on tw). (this also talks about the burst idea, u know how often people talk about time warp and saying it increases dps, etc etc, damage per second, means burst in this case, within the few seconds tw is up, it doubles the damage, this is DPS, so yes the discussion will often be about BURST dps)

I’ve had no problems in dungeons. I’ve been the last one standing solo-ing the boss all the way to death. I PvE alot, i WvW. I prefer PvE honestly. PvE mobs go down super fast. Recently, I’ve been running a wvw style build, meaning alot more survivable, toughness etc, while I still do my best to have high attack and stacks and whatnot. My build isn’t based on shatter or burst damage, it is based on sustained heavy dps. My DPS even with more survivability, is still insane. People always comment on mesmer dps saying how fast mobs die or how fast wvw players go down.

I don’t see how we suck in dps at all. Like i said in my last reply, our range, variety and possibility of sources of damage are more than other classes often times, and must be counted all together. We are quite strong. Everyone and every other class always quotes mesmers as being strong in many capacities.

Yes mesmer have lower dps. However, teams don’t bring mesmer for it’s DPS that’s what they bring warrior for. They bring mesmers for their utility. This topic is moot.

takatsu.9416:

idk, most people when talking about dps, are talking about burst damage. After all “damage per second”, if you have crazy burst damage, your “damage per second” spikes during that time, and becomes your “record damage per second”. People will use that as their reference point. It’s hard to talk about sustained damage, because like people have said, phantasms getting out, or even for other classes, what skills do you use? what weapons do you use? do you spam every skill + weapon swap to count this towards “dps” or do you only calculate autoattack sustain?? There’s no point of reference. The burst dps record is their point of reference. If you can consistently dish that burst dps, then that’s what your build and class is capable of.
~snip~

It seems to me that the length of the fight is important here, the longer the fight the less desired burst actually becomes (save for when the target is lower on health and you figure you can drop the target in that window of opportunity of the burst skill). Take a skill like 100b, 3.5 second channel and 8 second recharge the dps of this skill is actually the amount of damage it does over 11.5 seconds since the recharge does not actually start until the skill is finished. So if something can not be killed before the skill actually recharges, does it actually become a dps loss over the autoattack of say axe which is actually a 2.5 second channel (.5, .5, 1.5) but has no cooldown time, since it can complete roughly four full skill chains in the time it takes to do one 100b and wait for the reset?. The answer is yes, and this will hold true for any class when speaking about actual dps values over long time periods sustained damage is the number that really matters and that is achieved in this game through use of the autoattack, the caveat being that certain bosses and most trash mobs can be dropped so quickly that burst is the more important number.

You are correct in trying to calculate layers of damge or what I call force multipliers into the equation, in the case of phantasm mesmer if they can keep up all three phantasms and aa with their sword then their actual dps during that time is just as high as any other class in the game using melee auto’s. The problem with this then becomes setup time to get out the three phantasms versus another class that does not need that time and there are many scenarios when it is nearly impossible to have all three phant’s up at all times. This becomes the issue when calculating effective damage values for the mesmer because so much of it’s damage is tied into easily destructible damage sources, or is based on certain criteria such as being able to use reflects for damage, all of which are more or less beyond the control of the player themselves. I realize that there are times when you can place your phantasms to keep them safe, such as the iDuelist or iLock but to do that then you need to actually be disengaged from the boss to put them in a place where they won’t take damage, which in turn means you yourself are doing very little damage during that time, since you are using a staff (we all know staff auto sucks on a power build for damage) and off hand pistol which means you are most likely running sword mainhand and are not able to melee from range.

We could probably go back and forth giving different examples from different scenarios all day long, but in the end much of mesmer’s damage is out of their own personal control when you compare it to other classes that can do the same amount of damge or more without all of the situational requirements that come along with playing a mesmer.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

It seems to me that the length of the fight is important here, …

We could probably go back and forth giving different examples from different scenarios all day long, but in the end much of mesmer’s damage is out of their own personal control when you compare it to other classes that can do the same amount of damge or more without all of the situational requirements that come along with playing a mesmer.

Yeah, I agree it does take some work to set up, and that burst damage considerations is different depending on length of fight, but because there are so many variables to a mesmers damage that’s why they are more versatile than other classes. for example someone said you bring a warrior in for DPS. However, I find that in most of my experiences that is NOT true. Warriors who are built for DPS, generally die pretty quick in tougher dungeons, I’ve even seen good bunker guardians go down pretty quick, while mesmers staying at range, or you know, being so mobile with utilities as well, they can keep up damage over time, while not dying. Another issue is other classes like a warrior, requires to be in Melee range for most of their DPS. When this is like a wvw fight, you can be sure other players will be moving, dodging, or blocking, and otherwise countering those melee attacks. Mesmers on the other hand, yes, they require different sources, but that is what makes their damage viable, effective, and powerful. If things get one shot, you simply keep generating illusions and shattering them, phantasms, after they get off their first hits. No matter where i am, or what kind of one shot hits can kill my iLock, I usually have a chaos storm down on my warlock, so they’re protected from incoming attacks with aegis, (while i’m getting boons and phase retreat) and they get off their first attacks, and if need be, shatter. That is just one example, but there are plenty of other things mesmers can do, at range, at melee, and various other scenarios. They are a versatile class. Like what i said, my friend would often say, dead dps is no dps. Warriors, thieves, some rangers need their pets, etc, while they can be dishing incredible dps, they would still need their own situations to take place, i.e. melee, (unless built for a rifle build etc). Truth is, every class needs their own form of “set up” and in the long run, OR in the short run, I don’t think mesmers are weaker at all OR requires MORE set up. I think Mesmers generate illusions like nothing, no effort at all. At least all the builds i’ve ever played on mesmer feels that way, and have never felt weak compared to other classes. On the base level looking at pure numbers, time, damage etc, it may seem that other classes have it better, but in actual fights, it is not that different.

takatsu.9416:

idk, most people when talking about dps, are talking about burst damage.

Then they don’t understand what DPS means, which is “the average rate of damage inflicted over time”.

If you can do a huge burst (or volley, etc., sometimes different terms are used in different games), but if you can only do it once a minute, then your DPS could easily be lower than someone who does comparatively tiny hits, but every 3 seconds, for example.

This is why it’s sometimes the case that a powerful autoattack can do more DPS than any other combination of abilities, even if they put up big numbers. It’s also the reason why classes that put out DoTs (or in our game conditions) can sometimes top DPS charts over more flashy classes that do hits with big numbers.

That’s also why I mentioned the point that GW2’s fights are pretty short: if fights are short, then burst is (usually) more important than DPS, if fights are long, then DPS is (usually) more important than burst.

Mesmers can certainly have quite respectable burst damage, but the question is whether our DPS, our sustained damage, is low (which it kind of is, especially with weak autoattacks like staff and scepter, but it probably doesn’t matter because of the short fights).

gurugeorge.9857:

takatsu.9416:

idk, most people when talking about dps, are talking about burst damage.

Then they don’t understand what DPS means, which is “the average rate of damage inflicted over time”.

If you can do a huge burst (or volley, etc., sometimes different terms are used in different games), but if you can only do it once a minute, then your DPS could easily be lower than someone who does comparatively tiny hits, but every 3 seconds, for example.

This is why it’s sometimes the case that a powerful autoattack can do more DPS than any other combination of abilities, even if they put up big numbers. It’s also the reason why classes that put out DoTs (or in our game conditions) can sometimes top DPS charts over more flashy classes that do hits with big numbers.

That’s also why I mentioned the point that GW2’s fights are pretty short: if fights are short, then burst is (usually) more important than DPS, if fights are long, then DPS is (usually) more important than burst.

Mesmers can certainly have quite respectable burst damage, but the question is whether our DPS, our sustained damage, is low (which it kind of is, especially with weak autoattacks like staff and scepter, but it probably doesn’t matter because of the short fights).

Yes I agree, that it depends on the length of the fight. But my issue is when we’re talking about fights over a longer period of time, which mainly occurs in dungeons, against champions/legendary bosses, especially when looking at tough dungeons which requires skill, we’re looking at a lot more variables than just the numbers or damage over time.

For example, when you have a warrior who hits really hard auto attack or whatnot, or might even be a balanced build, with good heavy hits, auto attack or whatever, while having some survivability, once again, i’m saying all classes need their “set up”. The warrior (some warriors don’t build for range), would have to be in melee to do the most damage. While this is okay for a short period of time, eventually, they get hit pretty hard by the boss. They have to continually evade, dodge, run away to heal, and all sorts of stuff, which actually if you think about it, takes away also from their constant damage dealing. Same for a thief, you don’t see a thief up in a tough long boss fight’s face, all the time, tanking it like a guardian. When out of range, suddenly, the dps rates will change. A bunker guardian, while able to tank the boss, might not do as much damage either. That’s why we have a team of people working on one particular long fight objective. However, when we look at mesmer, we have a lot of versatiliy, utility, evasion, stun breaks, all sorts of stuff that keeps us alive, but we’re also dealing tons of damage consistently at range or jumping into melee. (that’s my opinion and personal experience) people want mesmers in dungeons, quoted not only for talking about utilities but that they want zerker mesmers for their dps while other members of the group can focus on tanking, holding the boss in place, attracting aggro, etc. Mesmers can deal sustained, consistent damage over time in long fights, even tho their autoattack isn’t that great, just as well as other classes, because other classes need their set up and need to survive as well. Mesmers might be one of the easiest classes to survive with, when played well, imo. Often times mesmers might be last one standing

takatsu.9416:

gurugeorge.9857:

takatsu.9416:

idk, most people when talking about dps, are talking about burst damage.

Then they don’t understand what DPS means, which is “the average rate of damage inflicted over time”.

If you can do a huge burst (or volley, etc., sometimes different terms are used in different games), but if you can only do it once a minute, then your DPS could easily be lower than someone who does comparatively tiny hits, but every 3 seconds, for example.

This is why it’s sometimes the case that a powerful autoattack can do more DPS than any other combination of abilities, even if they put up big numbers. It’s also the reason why classes that put out DoTs (or in our game conditions) can sometimes top DPS charts over more flashy classes that do hits with big numbers.

That’s also why I mentioned the point that GW2’s fights are pretty short: if fights are short, then burst is (usually) more important than DPS, if fights are long, then DPS is (usually) more important than burst.

Mesmers can certainly have quite respectable burst damage, but the question is whether our DPS, our sustained damage, is low (which it kind of is, especially with weak autoattacks like staff and scepter, but it probably doesn’t matter because of the short fights).

Yes I agree, that it depends on the length of the fight. But my issue is when we’re talking about fights over a longer period of time, which mainly occurs in dungeons, against champions/legendary bosses, especially when looking at tough dungeons which requires skill, we’re looking at a lot more variables than just the numbers or damage over time.

For example, when you have a warrior who hits really hard auto attack or whatnot, or might even be a balanced build, with good heavy hits, auto attack or whatever, while having some survivability, once again, i’m saying all classes need their “set up”. The warrior (some warriors don’t build for range), would have to be in melee to do the most damage. While this is okay for a short period of time, eventually, they get hit pretty hard by the boss. They have to continually evade, dodge, run away to heal, and all sorts of stuff, which actually if you think about it, takes away also from their constant damage dealing. Same for a thief, you don’t see a thief up in a tough long boss fight’s face, all the time, tanking it like a guardian. When out of range, suddenly, the dps rates will change. A bunker guardian, while able to tank the boss, might not do as much damage either. That’s why we have a team of people working on one particular long fight objective. However, when we look at mesmer, we have a lot of versatiliy, utility, evasion, stun breaks, all sorts of stuff that keeps us alive, but we’re also dealing tons of damage consistently at range or jumping into melee. (that’s my opinion and personal experience) people want mesmers in dungeons, quoted not only for talking about utilities but that they want zerker mesmers for their dps while other members of the group can focus on tanking, holding the boss in place, attracting aggro, etc. Mesmers can deal sustained, consistent damage over time in long fights, even tho their autoattack isn’t that great, just as well as other classes, because other classes need their set up and need to survive as well. Mesmers might be one of the easiest classes to survive with, when played well, imo. Often times mesmers might be last one standing

I see what you mean now, and agree. Effective DPS can indeed be different from theoretical DPS, and in those terms it might well even out for a Mesmer.

kitten , it’s at times like this I wish there was a parser, it would probably put the cat among the pidgeons. But then, if there were a parser, there would be no mystery

Even if you do achieve greater dps as a mesmer with full phant build and 3 phants you are overlooking the fact that mesmer must shatter those phants frequently to survive.

SteepledHat.1345:

Even if you do achieve greater dps as a mesmer with full phant build and 3 phants you are overlooking the fact that mesmer must shatter those phants frequently to survive.

Not necessarily, it really depends on if you need a burst of damage, emergency damage avoidance from distortion, or you’re working on those defiant stacks to reposition a boss. The confusion is generally pretty bad.

If you need none of those things and you’re in a situation say a world boss that you can basically afk, 3 warlocks staying up and casting will contribute more damage than shattering and starting over with the cooldowns.

It then becomes 3 warlocks doing 16-22k damage each every 6s (48-66k in other words) while you sword autoattack and blurred frenzy when an attack is telegraphed.

colesy.8490:

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@djtool – why ranger runes when your main source of damage, the phantasms will have fury anyway? If you go full ruby orbs and phantasmal fury you end up with like 76% crit chance on your phantasms (havent logged in for a while, can’t remember the crit chance for full zerk) and 2% more crit damage than 5 ranger 1 divinity (and divinity is awful anyway).

I’m not sure why you’d go 30-30-0-0-10 either, if you want strong phantasms you’re missing out on giving them more HP, 15% more damage, retaliation and reflects from your focus skills (which reeeeallly shouldn’t be underestimated).

we’re talking max damage. if you want to crit you max your damage by increasing your crit chance and crit multiplier, so that’s why ranger runes and one divinity. I don’t WvW, i presume that’s what that ruby orb business is about.

you also max your damage by being able to apply it outside your phantasms.

I do not believe a %15 damage increase on your phantasm’s outweighs the extra crit multiplier or increase in power.

you give phantasm’s more hp with the signet. the %20 from the inspiration line is a nice extra thing if you’re already in the inspiration line but is not a sizable difference maker.

finally you don’t max your damage by taking the warden

we’re talking max damage. if you want to crit you max your damage by increasing your crit chance and crit multiplier, so that’s why ranger runes and one divinity. I don’t WvW, i presume that’s what that ruby orb business is about.

Ruby Orbs are power/prec/crit dmg armour upgrades. 76% crit chance in a dungeon plus warrior banners will make you crit basically all the time, you don’t need ranger runes.

I do not believe a %15 damage increase on your phantasm’s outweighs the extra crit multiplier or increase in power.

lol. And I guess putting night/smothering on your sword/focus in cof p1 isn’t worth doing either because it’s only a 20% damage increase?

you give phantasm’s more hp with the signet. the %20 from the inspiration line is a nice extra thing if you’re already in the inspiration line but is not a sizable difference maker.

Signet is a waste of time in PVE unless the encounter literally requires no utilities. In WvW and PvP I have all my slots filled with one escape (blink) and two utilities, not a passive. Phantasms also had their PVE HP buffed by 270%.

finally you don’t max your damage by taking the warden

A phantasm that hits 12 times (god I can’t remember, kitten ancient computer not letting me play gw2) which can potentially apply 12 bleed stacks and reflects projectiles. Silly me, that 40k reflect I got off the effigy in cof p1 didn’t increase my damage at all.