Guild Wars 2

It seems to me Anet has a hard time understanding the concept of mesmer in terms of knowing how to buff or nerf a mesmer. Well a huge hint revolves the fact that almost all our builds requires clones which takes us to part two of the problem. The fact that we require clones for our builds to work means Deceptive Evasion is CORE to every mesmer build out there which means 4 trait points out of 14 trait points are always stuck in Dueling. Because of that it destroys all means of unique builds that a mesmer can create due to the fact that 4 points are ALWAYS on Dueling (FYI the only builds I know that didn’t require this trait necessarily is glamour build but hey nerf the kitten out of confusion and hey while your at it give it to every other class that can make it extremely OP and yes I’m talking about perplex runes). At the same time the 4 extra points can make a mesmer OP as if we aren’t complained about enough (meaning those who don’t have a mesmer and dont know how a mesmer actually works).
While our unique class mechanics revolves around clones and the usage of clones (F1-F4 skill). And no offense the weapons don’t exactly generate enough clones like necros generate life force.
Also iLeap still sucks and needs a fix.

We are the choir. Preach it brother!

Also, one of the only builds (other than standard phantasm build) that rules and doesn’t benefit from DE. Worth pointing out. Still needs 6 in dueling though :p
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantrupt-Asskicker-CS-Interrupt/first#

It’s not just mesmers. Anet struggles to balance the game as a whole period.

Just an interesting thought: what if every single weapon skill can generate a clone? Auto-attack has 20% to proc a clone and clone proc is part of RNG for chaos storm and chaos armor. Then people don’t need DE to generate clones to their contempt. Aaaand clone death can officially have a strong build of its own haha.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Just an interesting thought: what if every single weapon skill can generate a clone? Auto-attack has 20% to proc a clone and clone proc is part of RNG for chaos storm and chaos armor. Then people don’t need DE to generate clones to their contempt. Aaaand clone death can officially have a strong build of its own haha.

Because it’s incredibly important clones spawn on your intended target. RNG would be bad times.

Well that or lower the CD on mirror image but then that pigeon holes you to that ability. Why not have a free clone on crit?

To the idea of clones on autoattacks: If I have three phantasms out, I would really like to be allowed to keep attacking for optimal damage.

What I feel like is most weapon sets should have the same potential generation Sc/Sw has… One phantasm and three clone skills. I think autoattack clones are a bit much(except for scepter I mean), but we still have 2/3/4 or 5 for clones.

Alternatively, we could get some variants to DE:
“Create a clone at target position when you use a Glamour.”
“Create a clone when you gain Distortion or Blur.”
“Create up to two clones when you use a Signet.” (Hell, give a full signet build something crazy.)
“Clones gain Shatter Proof, protecting them from one shatter or death. All shatter and death effects function as normal.”

With traits like that, DE would be a nice contender for Grandmaster along with every other trait, while many existing grandmasters could take a rightful place lower in each section.

imo the problem is Anet refuse to see us as a spike damage class, everything they have done is to push us into more condi CC class . It simply does not work because our main form of defense is NOT getting hit where the real condi cc classes like engis and necros have hp and toughness/armor as defense.

Mogar.9216:

imo the problem is Anet refuse to see us as a spike damage class,

We are already a spike-damage profession, and we are in a good place with that.
Shatter does not need any buffs.

everything they have done is to push us into more condi CC class . It simply does not work because our main form of defense is NOT getting hit where the real condi cc classes like engis and necros have hp and toughness/armor as defense.

So, if it currently does not work, why should arenanet not push that further?
I like it, that they are only doing small adjustments to not overbuff condi-mesmer.

Last night a berserker medidation guard and a beserker lb ranger both qualified for the WTS. Not long ago many people would have said, that both are not on par with ele and engi. Zoose still played fresh air, and did great, even tho they lost in the end.

I am using my own mantra-shatter variation, and I’m doing fine.
Nieslysze on EU always plays some kind of strange defense support build, really hard to kill him, he holds a point and still supports his group. He always played on the Top 300 of TeamQ and SoloQ, I’m sure with the new system his MMR is still high.

There are still enough non-meta mesmer variations that are viable. Most of the time, the problem can be found between the screen and the chair, and not in the build options.

Teutos.8620:

Mogar.9216:

imo the problem is Anet refuse to see us as a spike damage class,

We are already a spike-damage profession, and we are in a good place with that.
Shatter does not need any buffs.

everything they have done is to push us into more condi CC class . It simply does not work because our main form of defense is NOT getting hit where the real condi cc classes like engis and necros have hp and toughness/armor as defense.

So, if it currently does not work, why should arenanet not push that further?
I like it, that they are only doing small adjustments to not overbuff condi-mesmer.

Last night a berserker medidation guard and a beserker lb ranger both qualified for the WTS. Not long ago many people would have said, that both are not on par with ele and engi. Zoose still played fresh air, and did great, even tho they lost in the end.

I am using my own mantra-shatter variation, and I’m doing fine.
Nieslysze on EU always plays some kind of strange defense support build, really hard to kill him, he holds a point and still supports his group. He always played on the Top 300 of TeamQ and SoloQ, I’m sure with the new system his MMR is still high.

There are still enough non-meta mesmer variations that are viable. Most of the time, the problem can be found between the screen and the chair, and not in the build options.

Your logic is total backwards. You can’t argue that because other classes have build diversity therefore mesmers are fine. We want diversity , we want to play different builds. But the fact is no one plays condi mesmer in pvp means whatever Anet is doing doesn’t work. The only example of mesmer you can give is yourself and some guy who is top 300 on leader board. Well I also don’t play shatter and I’m top 100 on leaderboard. But I’m not fooling myself into thinking my role on a good team can not be filled better by a thief unless I do play shatter .

lets be honest confusion before perplex runes were a unique condi for mesmers mainly due to our glamours engis had it but it wasnt to the extent of how mesmers can apply it. i mean i understand the nerf on confusion but like i said they over did the nerf and gave it to everyone else and in result they dont know how to buff back confusion or change it in a way that a mesmer can be “unique” with confusion like before. If anet wants to push mesmers to be a condi CC class then please give us back confusion and remove perplex runes…dont have to buff confusion back to 100% but at least 66% or w/e you’re doing to pve back to pvp would be nice…
also for those shatter mesmer complainers the reason why shatter was soo strong back then had was because confusion played a huge part as well before the confusion nerf…and honestly shatter mesmer shouldnt be complained about, the bulk dmg we dish out is our reward considering shattering requires a lot more timing and skills and setup then a “rapid fire pewpew” “backstab stealth” or a glass medi guard blowing kitten up or even DS necros spamming 1 which is basically pressing 1 to 2 skills.

Mogar.9216:

Your logic is total backwards. You can’t argue that because other classes have build diversity therefore mesmers are fine.

My argument is, that thinking shatter is the only viable build might also just be purely the own perception, and does not rest upon objective facts.

The other professions I mentioned had the same problem.
Not a long time ago offguards were very rare, most players argued that only shout-bunker is viable.
You can basically see that with all professions.
Ele: Most players though only Cele D/D was viable, who has thought about staff, D/F or even S/F fresh air?

We want diversity , we want to play different builds. But the fact is no one plays condi mesmer in pvp means whatever Anet is doing doesn’t work.

No, it just means, the players (including myself) who have tried it out were not good enough. Or the team composition in which they have tried it out was not suitable.

Well I also don’t play shatter and I’m top 100 on leaderboard.

No, you are not.
Your current rank (195) on the ladder does not matter at all, since the current ladder is a farm-ladder. You could also be at the bottom end of the MMR and just holding your 50% win chance and farming points, we just don’t know.
Prior Dec the 16th where you were primary ranked by your MMR you were not even in the top 1000 in NA.

Teutos.8620:

Mogar.9216:

Your logic is total backwards. You can’t argue that because other classes have build diversity therefore mesmers are fine.

My argument is, that thinking shatter is the only viable build might also just be purely the own perception, and does not rest upon objective facts.

The other professions I mentioned had the same problem.
Not a long time ago offguards were very rare, most players argued that only shout-bunker is viable.
You can basically see that with all professions.
Ele: Most players though only Cele D/D was viable, who has thought about staff, D/F or even S/F fresh air?

We want diversity , we want to play different builds. But the fact is no one plays condi mesmer in pvp means whatever Anet is doing doesn’t work.

No, it just means, the players (including myself) who have tried it out were not good enough. Or the team composition in which they have tried it out was not suitable.

Well I also don’t play shatter and I’m top 100 on leaderboard.

No, you are not.
Your current rank (195) on the ladder does not matter at all, since the current ladder is a farm-ladder. You could also be at the bottom end of the MMR and just holding your 50% win chance and farming points, we just don’t know.
Prior Dec the 16th where you were primary ranked by your MMR you were not even in the top 1000 in NA.

lol I’m ranked 75 right now and 50% solo Q win rate may not be the best but I like to see you do better. I didn’t do pvp before the patch so my rank was low. Anyhow regardless of how good or bad I am the point is the same.You can only back up your argument with nothing but words and a ranked example which I countered with my own rank. I can back up what I say with facts like no one plays condi in pvp. It’s rather arrogant to think that the ENTIRE mesmer player base are wrong about condi not viable in pvp and somehow you know better than all the rest.. If you do indeed know better then you need to back up what you are saying with some facts .

guys?

there is an expansion. Let anet detail the expansion. They should already done a bulk of the work and there is little chance of changing it

Mogar.9216:

lol I’m ranked 75 right now and 50% solo Q win rate may not be the best but I like to see you do better.

So, you have no clue, how the current system works. Please take a look in the pvp forum for more information.

You can only back up your argument with nothing but words

I did back it up with a lot of examples, please go think about them.

and a ranked example which I countered with my own rank.

Your own rank means nothing. Please go to the pvp forum, and inform yourself how the current system works.

The ONLY people who can create a new meta are guys like Helseth and maybe Subcutie. They’ll win against us regardless what they are playing. If they choose to play condition, just wait, and everyone else will follow.

The facts I presented you are examples from other professions, where exactly the same happened. Since you recently started playing, this might be something new to you, but EXACTLY the same happend with every other profession.
Only Bullet Punch played berserker medidation guard successfully at a top level. Then Fraelina and Tage followed, and now almost every guard you face is using their trait setup.

If we loose, the build must not work, and since the few top players are not using it, it must be bad. Better continue QQing and not trying to get better ourselves!
You are only limiting yourself.

You can only back up your argument with nothing but words

I did back it up with a lot of examples, please go think about them.

and a ranked example which I countered with my own rank.

Your own rank means nothing. Please go to the pvp forum, and inform yourself how the current system works.
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lol I never mentioned rank in my first post, the only reason I brought up my own rank is because you are saying that there is a top 300 ranked player who is doing well with none shatter therefore I must be wrong.

The facts I presented you are examples from other professions, where exactly the same happened. Since you recently started playing, this might be something new to you, but EXACTLY the same happend with every other profession.
Only Bullet Punch played berserker medidation guard successfully at a top level. Then Fraelina and Tage followed, and now almost every guard you face is using their trait setup.
—-—————————————-
Lets look at your examples , Medidtation Guard and Long bow rangers. Lets read some patch notes. What changes did Anet make to guards and rangers… SURPRISE!! THEY BUFFED MEDI GUARDS AND LONGBOW RANGERS!!.

If we loose, the build must not work, and since the few top players are not using it, it must be bad. Better continue QQing and not trying to get better ourselves!
You are only limiting yourself.[/quote]
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If we are not wanted in pvp teams , when the best mesmers on those teams admit that mesmers are under powered and when most of the pvp player base agree that mesmers suck in pvp then maybe just maybe Anet needs to change their thinking and give us something useful rather than useless condi buffs.

Cmon, use the formatting properly. Not readable.

I see, that I can’t convince you. Stay in your QQ-world, and be happy there. I know better.

Part of the reason that Mesmer never gets buffs is on top of all the usual complaints from other classes, every time somebody points out a problem with Mesmer there is always at least 1 Mesmer that comes in with ‘OMG Mesmers are fine learn how to play stop QQing I can take on 10 people at once with my secret sauce build’

Mesmer wont get buffed for same reason Thief wont get buffed

Stealth and Clones too OP for the nubs