Guild Wars 2

Hey,
Today I was in CoF path 1 as I have been doing for the past 2 or 3 weeks. On this particular run the group consisted of 2 Mesmers (Myself included), 1 Ranger, 1 Elementalist and 1 Engineer who admitted he was new to CoF. During the final boss of that run, the Ranger said that “The 2 mesmers take the crystals and the rest DPS the boss” so knowing full well that we could all take the boss or at very least just one of us kill the crystals I asked him why, to which he replied “Mesmers do crap DPS”…

Well, this proved to be a failure with the Elementalist claiming “Why do mesmers do such low damage” in reference to our slow killing of the crystals. So it was OUR fault, until I suggested we all Nuke the boss or just one mesmer take the crystals. Needless to say, we faired better this time killing the boss but not without a parting shot with the ranger claiming we could not nuke the boss with mesmers because of the low damage output.

So, is this how people see Mesmers? A pathetic profession? Personally, I think that this person was just ill-informed. Do you guys think we do low damage and take less hits to kill? (I’d agree with the getting killed easy part, due to the armour but thats the idea right?)

Depends on the player, the gear they have, and how they are trait specced.

I find us to be pretty terrible against objects, but mobs are generally fine.

InterSlayer.5821:

Depends on the player, the gear they have, and how they are trait specced.

Wish someone that knows what they’re talking about made some Specs/traits and gear to go with it guides. All I can find anywhere is just random people posting their specs without any easily understood information to go with it.

I’m currently going after MrPromethius’ build of 20/0/30/0/20 with staff as main weapon and Carrion gear. I try a Greatsword and do like 400-700 damage per auto attack, then I watch WvW videos where Greatsword users do 2k-3k or even more damage per auto attack and no guide to go with it to what items and spec they use.

I just think the ranger was mentally deficient to the point of needing a lobotomy to excise the parts of his brain allowing him to type or speak.

Quite a few of your abilities and traits cause conditions, like Vulnerability and Bleed, which are a lot more effective on the boss.

So I saw this sPvP Mesmer stream about a week ago who was traited 20/20/0/030 doing a hybrid shatter phantasm build. So I decided to try it in PvE. He uses Staff/Dual swords. I find that in PvE I have better dps than an Elementalist. With just my dodge clones I can usually maintain about 20 bleed stacks just on my own. The iWarlock hits for between 3 to 7k (Upper-end damage being from crits) and my swordsman between 4 to 9k. Gear-wise I go beserkers with runes of divinity and for my trinkets I focus on Power, vitality, and condi damage.

I agree with Artereis. Illusions often don’t register objects as something they can attack and will instead just stand there, staring at it. Additionally, some of our weapons seem capable of hitting objects, while others are 50/50.

MeveM, it largely depends on what the person is fighting and where. I have not had a chance to do it yet, but people mention that in sPvP, their damage is often much higher. From personal experience, I have had hits of 2K+ in my personal story against creatures that, outside of it, I hit for tops of 800-1K. My gear is still improving, however, so perhaps those numbers are still possible.

Sounds like you weren’t using the right phantasms.

If you compare Mesmer basic attack damage to other classes’ basic attack damage, the Mesmer’s is horrendously low. Mesmers only make up for that through phantasms or shatters. If you were using a phantasm with low direct damage on those crystals, then that’s probably why you lost.

MeveM.7913:

I’m currently going after MrPromethius’ build of 20/0/30/0/20 with staff as main weapon and Carrion gear. I try a Greatsword and do like 400-700 damage per auto attack, then I watch WvW videos where Greatsword users do 2k-3k or even more damage per auto attack and no guide to go with it to what items and spec they use.

It’s very simple: if you want high direct damage (GS autoattacks), then you need Berserker gear for high power and crit damage. Carrion gear doesn’t even have high power — it has mid power and high condition damage. A build with high investment into power and crit damage (Domination/Dueling) will also help.

Take a trip to the Heart of the Mists (sPvP lobby) where you can try on different stat configurations and builds and go hit a dummy golem. Be aware that a few of the stats are different between sPvP and PvE though (for example PvE Berserkers has more crit damage than the sPvP Berserker, and has no Vit).

Puggin sucks.

And we don’t even need to touch the crystals. Just dog pile the boss.

MeveM.7913:

I’m currently going after MrPromethius’ build of 20/0/30/0/20 with staff as main weapon and Carrion gear. I try a Greatsword and do like 400-700 damage per auto attack, then I watch WvW videos where Greatsword users do 2k-3k or even more damage per auto attack and no guide to go with it to what items and spec they use.

Try a Power/Precision build. Pick traits that increase damage (power/precision/dmg/fury)

20/30/0/10 (if you WvW)/10

PVE-wise (which is the focus of the original post) mobs generally don’t spam abilities enough to be hurt substantive way by condition effects like Confusion. Bleeds are okay, but they also cap to 25 so if someone else is a bleed build then the extra bleeds go to waste.

Sword+Focus/Pistol and Greatsword.

Also you want to be using Feedback (great in projectile heavy dungeons), Time Warp (awesome for group). Other than that you can condition clear with Null Field and the Mantra that clears 2 conditions.

I think one of the bigger problems with attacking objects is that they don’t trigger attack bounces. Greatsword 2 will only hit once, for example. I tend to just plant a warden next to an object and go back to hitting the boss.

I think one of the bigger problems with attacking objects is that they don’t trigger attack bounces. Greatsword 2 will only hit once, for example. I tend to just plant a warden next to an object and go back to hitting the boss.

This is one of the awesome things about being a Mesmer. Can go around reviving people and whatnot once you drop a few phantasms, since you only lose partial DPS while your toon isn’t attacking.

This ranger was a total moron. HE should be the one killing the crystals with his axe. In fact, you and the other mesmer should have complied to kick him from the party just before the boss died.

What counts when killing crystals? Raw AOE dps.
What counts when killing a big fat boss? Conditions, utility, single target dps, CC, etc…

Guess which one the mesmer excells at?

The correction’s very easy actually. “Mesmers do crap AOE dps” And there’s really no arguing with that. Shatters and staff skills are basically our only aoe (Yes the GS phantasm does aoe too but I find it rather unreliable considering where they come from, what they run through, and if they even live.) And the ONLY one of those 4 shatters and one staff skill that doesn’t rely on conditions for most of it’s damage is Mind Wrack. Those crystals and any other “object” in the game is immune to conditions so the result is our “aoe dps” is, admittedly, terrible. In anything without “objects” though we’re usually good or even better than other classes so… Eh. I deal with it.

If you are lucky enough that you can pull out 2+ Warlocks or Duelists, you will do perfectly valid DPS on most bosses. (If properly spec’d, almost over the top DPS with the right build and 3 Duelists or 3 Warlocks) If Wardens would just move or could survive more than a stiff wind, you could do even more DPS.

If for any reason you can’t keep those guys alive, or you try some other combo, then your DPS will be much lower than another class that doesn’t have most of it’s damage tied up in Phantasms.

That’s the problem, in fights in dungeons the major fights include a lot of AOE damage, ground effects, excessive mob groups and lots of ways that phantasms are just not very viable. When that occurs, the Mesmer DPS does suck pretty badly.

No other class is so dependent on their pets to do competitive DPS, and in dungeons it’s just the most obvious that is a problem to others. Ranger Pets are tougher, have range and you can heal, Necro’s don’t even use a pet build (for good reason, its awful).

You can’t automatically call Mesmer crap in DPS: it depends on the build. we are the most diverse profession in terms of builds, ranging from support to stealth, dps to tank.

I will agree though, it is fairly difficult to make a pure DPS mesmer. I’ve been trying for some time and the best i could come up with is precision bleed spamming.

Sci. Both the builds in the previous two posts are… Unreliable for dps at best. Not to say they don’t have their place, but phantasm armies are effective only while you keep them alive, and that means you need a staff and good utilities. Bleed spam is just not efficient. It’s a good secondary damage source.

Yes, mesmers can do good, reliable dps and it cones with power,critic builds that use shatters well. And no, I don’t mean pure shatterstorm builds. I mean GS + sword builds that build illusions, shatter, and use direct attacks in sync.

I am running 30/30/10/0/0.

Traits: Mental torment (20% more shatter damage)
Rending shatter (shatter causes vulnerability)
GS training (+50 power greatsword 20% CD reduction)

Phantasm Fury (phantasms have fury)
Desperate decoy (stealth + clone at 25% health)
Deceptive mastery ( clone on dodge)

*I will swap out and pick up Blade Training and/or Retalitory shield depending on the fight.

Debilitation Dissipation (clones cause random condition when killed)

As far as skills go that varies widely. Generally the heal I use is Mirror. Timed right it reflects a projectile back at the attacker. It also has a short CD.
The only other hard and fast skill I use is signet of illusions.
1. Provides them with enough health that they will make it in for shatters.
2. In PVP they can take more than 1 hit which further confuses people to waste attacks on them. Your mileage may vary.
For general PVE I like feedback and mirror images.

Nearly all my gear is power/precesion/crit damage with a few power/precesion/toughness pieces mixed in.

Main weapon is a greatsword.
Secondary I generally run with a scepter/sword. I do have a staff and focus and pistol that I swap out depending on the dungeon/boss.

The secondaries have a LOT of defense to them. Blocking attacks can be a huge bennefit since you take 0 damage. Sword MH2 is 2 seconds ( every 8 seconds – traited) of damage immunity. Sword OH4 is a block. Scepter 2 is also a block.

The setup has plenty of survival in its secondary weapon set. The blocks + dodges are usually more that sufficient to survive for PVE and WvW. In PVE especially dungeons I seem to always be stuck with agro.

Damage really comes in cycles. Initially you can GS4 then 2, dodge, shatter(mind wrack). Signet mirror images , dodge shatter(mind wrack) again.
On an off or defensive cycle Scepter 3 + shatter ( cry of frustration) stacks a LOT of confusion. Timed right it can cause substantial damage.
I am also a huge fan of feedback. Against ranged attackers they eat their own damage. It is also a field combo so it picks up some extra damage that was as well.

Ultimatly though, you have to find and do what works best for you. I STRONGLY recoment swapping out weapons and skills based on what your fighting up against. THAT is going to make you the best you can be. Trying to find 1 all powerful build just wont work.

Cheers.

yea we do crap dps (/sarcasm)…. try this build if you really feel like you really aren’t doing dps https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Lancer-Build. Thing is everyone thinks we don’t do dps, which is true, since we have phantasmals to do our dps and stuff, and clones. Sure their not reliable for boss fights, thats why you shatter them for dps, or utility

Crap DPS? Cant tell you, I only PvP. We have the best burst, though.

20 power to get GS trait -20% recharge
30 precision/crit dmg to get 16% dmg from mantras (lame i know)
20 illusion tree to get -20% rechage on illusion skills and +1 bounce

Beserker’s gear with ranger rune set up to 5 and then either 1 more ranger rune or a +25 precision rune, your choice.

Get a GS with perception sigil (250 precision) and a swap or a swap out GS with a +5% crit chance. Want to aim for 80ish crit chance if you are rolling ~ +100% crit dmg.

Try to keep ~ 600 range. its not max dmg with GS auto attack but you want to be close enough to foe to get bounces from skill 2 mirror blade. Since mirror blade is now traited to 4 bounces it hits you 2x times for 6 stacks of might and hits the foe 3 times (each hit is pretty decent dmg) AND places 9 stacks of vulnerability for +9% dmg. Whats great about two of your traits is the GS trait and the first minor illusion trait stack additively for -40% recharge on weapon skills that create illusions. Mirror Blade Creates a clone so it recharges in just 4.8sec. If your foe hasnt melted in 4.8sec it will soon be dead since you hit for alot but dont be afraid to recast to finish off a foe as its only a 4.8sec recharge. The warrior GS loves the skill 100b at that is traited down to 6.4sec and recharge isnt a problem on that if that says anything.

So just putting up 4 mantras and autoattacking + skill 2 should be ALOT of dmg for you without even thinking.
If you feel compelled try putting in mindblade for its fast cast and hard hitting small aoe aswell as ibeserker ofcoarse. And if you are really crazy about spiking something down use up your two free uses of mantra of pain.

Justine.6351:

This build. Awesome PVE DPS for mesmer.

I think it’s hilarious that a ranger is saying that mesmers do crap DPS. My mesmer kills things twice as fast as my ranger does, but it could be build differences. That said I’ll take illusions that are up sometimes vs a ranger pet that’s dead all the time.

My suggestion is to just test it out yourself. Fire up some sPvP builds and see how long it takes to down the test golems. I seriously doubt mesmers are having dps issues.

Edit: Also keep in mind that for dungeons mesmers also have very good reflection abilities. 20 points in inspiration gives reflection/20% reduction on focus skills and 20% glamour reduction(feedback). That’s a lot of group support for a small point investment.

Crap dps posts are probably from people building condition damage.
Condition damage is crap.

Build power/crit like everyone else.

Most Mesmers use Rampagers because they think SI is the end-all be-all of the class.

I wouldn’t call the DPS I deal crap. Is it lower than a ranger? Yes, but that doesn’t surprise me; I haven’t specced into large amounts of damage, but more towards using my illusions to inflict conditions so I can get small amounts of continuous damage from them while taking the enemy down with my GS. I can take out an enemy just as effectively, it just takes a little longer.

Plus, when I swap to staff conditions fly everywhere, which is pretty useful in group events (especially considering that I don’t see many other condition mesmers running around my server).

about objects :

a little unknown fact it seems that no one talks about is that necros are even worse than we are on objects they truly are reduced to autoatack dmg only on objects

I would say that the overall that the Mesmer has considerably less DPS than other classes. Its relatively easy to test in the heart of the mists. Anybody who think’s that the Mesmer has close to the DPS of other classes is fooling themselves.

On the other hand, a Mesmer is MUCH harder to kill than other classes, which allows us to solo champion level monsters.

Mesmers feel like they have low DPS, but its just an illusion since the hp is going away by bits at the same rate as other classes “burst” damage. ( which I can also do for high dmg )

false. we do excellent dps with the right build and gear. i do more than my ranger in the same exotics, hands down.

Jungle Quack.1368:

I would say that the overall that the Mesmer has considerably less DPS than other classes. Its relatively easy to test in the heart of the mists. Anybody who think’s that the Mesmer has close to the DPS of other classes is fooling themselves.

On the other hand, a Mesmer is MUCH harder to kill than other classes, which allows us to solo champion level monsters.

hi. i have 3 level 80’s in full exotics. mesmer has the best dps of the 3.

you can’t test in the mist because the targets dont have unlimited health. impossible to properly parse something that dies after spatial surge>mirror blade>berserker. that’s how fast heavy golems die for me. no shatter needed.

Lol I’m pretty sure Mesmer with 3 phants up, and 2/3 Phant dps increasing traits will probably out dps any other class as long as they are using power/precision gears. They are probably notably lower in any fights where you can’t keep them up, but shatters still help with that a little bit.

My play style is different from any of the above and I’m loving it.

I go heavy on toughness >> vitallity >> precision

Basically I never die or get downed (except TA because those blossoms), first because my dps is lower, second I decoy only at the right time and third I have 1.9K toughness.

Therefore in a long boss fight or pack of mobs I probably do more total dmg than most classes, simply because I’m 99% of the time attacking / shattering.

Besides I’m the one that when the party gets wiped I vanish and rez everyone.

Just time wrap in the right spot at the right time does more dmg than any other class by a long margin.

I pop a phantasm wait for the 1st attack to end, pop 2 ilusions (by dodging or other skill) and shatter with F1, F3 and F2… F4 when I’m rezing someone.

Speed runs I’m the man…. Portal for noobs or low geared players, I’m the man.

But I do agree with one thing: 2 Mesmers in the same party can be a problem.

So far I haven’t participated in a pug that would refuse a Mesmer, simply because our utility suppress by far any dps issue.

Longer the fight goes, better the DPS get – in normal PvE/DEs it’s a problem, in DGs where every mob is a vet or boss, it’s golden.

Very few builds can do same DPS of 3x traited Duelists unloading havoc on the same mob.

Could someone please post a youtube link to their build and gear setup for those of you hitting 9k with iSwordsman and iBerserker, and getting 2-3k with GS autoattack?

True, anyone can take 5 min. in a hearth of the mist situation where every profession has their end game stats and figure this out.
Mesmer their aoe is poor and single target dps is also to poor and to dependant on illusions.
These illusions however die basicly all the time which makes your dps even worse.

Other true dps professions do not have this problem with illusions.

Well theres a couple of things here

First we mesmer are quite bad in killing objects with a few exceptions where feedback makes them kills themself (those lil things that fire at you in arah for example). When we hit a object all our conditions are wasted so our clones become only shatter food instead of adding bleeds/burns/etc (wich the do good dmg, they just do it slower)

Other thing is i saw some ppl claming they do ohh so huge crits but what they do is to add all the dmg from 1 skill like Spatial Surge. For example I normally hit 800-1k with it (the higher number i see) and if i add them all would be maybe 2k-2.5k. So depending how ppl “read” the dmg you could have 1 claming he does 1k crits and other claming he does 2-2.5k when actually they do the same dmg. From what ive read the total dmg of your skill is the last number you see (in my last example 1k dmg) and it seems to fit since i dont see last hit of my skill take a larger chunk of HP. This things leads to confusion sometimes. Same could be said about phantasms, i think the highest number i saw my iberseker do is like 3k, if i add all hits it would be maybe like 9k, but i dont think im doing that much. (keep im mind im not sure if it had or how much might/vulnerability has been applied)

So in conclusion i dont think mesmers have bad DPS, but we lack in hitting objects compared to hitting bosses/mobs. Also since ppl dont read the same dmg the same way this leads to confusion. Also mesmers dmg can come in the form of reflect wich that dmg is huge but some ppl dont take in consideration.

Tbh im still waiting to see kitten of 1 of those so called 25k dmg warriors post a pick where i saw the actual 25k number on top of a mob. Ok, i didnt look much for it, but never saw it also :P

Mesmers aren’t super good at killing objects but they are REALLY good at taking care of the crystals in this fight.

Is there any other class that can deal dmg to 3 or more crystals at the same time at different places?
And even without that, I find the mesmer to out dmg most classes on low hp objects thanks to the shatter mechanic (and my shatter build helps).
Anyway, you shouldn’t even care about the crystals in this fight, get null field, a weapon with nullification if you’re really not sure about yur dps but that’s all.

Yes, other classes tend to think mesmers don’t deal enough dmg and it’s your work to prove them otherwise, which you did.

I’d say Mesmers can do fine DPS, but it takes a little more experience than with other classes I’ve played. It’s easy to get fooled into thinking the class has low DPS when you first start it –
- Mesmers don’t need as much toughness/vitality due to the illusions and all the great defensive slot powers, so you’re more able to pump the offensive traits.
- Sceptre is a defensive weapon,
- GS doesn’t utilize condition damage and requires using illusions or allies to keep some range,
- Staff makes good use of condition damage, but better once you can crit illusions for bleeds.

When you’re starting a ranger, it’s easy to spot a solid weapon combo (bow/melee), you can run with balanced traits, shortbows do their full damage at point blank, and there are a lot of low-maintenance condition damage powers. And the ranger pets are very low-maintenance compared to illusions.

Could someone please post a youtube link to their build and gear setup for those of you hitting 9k with iSwordsman and iBerserker, and getting 2-3k with GS autoattack?

Full Berserker/Ruby gear.

It’s pretty much as simple as that. If you’re not running it, you won’t get big hits very often.

Jungle Quack.1368:

I would say that the overall that the Mesmer has considerably less DPS than other classes. Its relatively easy to test in the heart of the mists. Anybody who think’s that the Mesmer has close to the DPS of other classes is fooling themselves.

On the other hand, a Mesmer is MUCH harder to kill than other classes, which allows us to solo champion level monsters.

So fighting against a mob with no projectiles to reflect, absolutely no chance to trigger confusion and no toughness anyways so you can’t see the way conditions tick for the same amount of damage no matter how much toughness the target has is an accurate comparison for damage? I suppose we would seem weak then.

It’s all down to -

1. Shatter is low range AOE and half the time the illusions fail to blow up from dieing
2. The damage takes 10ish seconds to ramp up to full with 3 phantasms out, and one random cleave or AOE and you lost x/3 of your DPS.
3. Mobs don’t use abilities like players, so confusion is great in pvp, bad in pve
4. Our largest DPS weapon option is melee, but our best builds don’t have toughness or vitality
5. Our Illusions rarely affect objects

All added up = less obvious DPS than any other class.

Can you get close working your butt off? Sure.

Can you even shine in full exotics, compared to others not in full exotics? Well ya, anyone does.

We aren’t going to be buffed much or where we shine (pvp) will cause issues. My solution for all of this?

Mesmer for WVWVW and SPVP and TPVP.
Guardian/Elementalist for Dungeons.
Warrior/Engineer for typical Event Farming.

Level up multiple 80’s and take the best one for each task. Yes, even those are good for some stuff and bad for others, like the Guardian is BORING in WVWVW.

We are not dps class, so I don’t understand why that ranger wants you to kill the crystal. Experienced player should know that condition dmg is also important when fighting this boss because of the regen, and we mesmers are doing fine on the condition part.
Crystal isn’t the issue at all. Focus too much at it makes killing boss take forever. We usually just ignore crystals instead.

Geo.2084:

All added up = less obvious DPS than any other class.

Aye, but less obvious DPS =/= less actual DPS. Mesmers have a lot of little ways to make damage add up to a ridiculous amount that is not obvious. Especially when teaming. My mesmer regularly puts up damage higher than both my warrior and ranger buddies specced for damage in dungeons.