Guild Wars 2

After replying to an user in the Ranger Forums, I’ve been wondering what will actually happen to the 3 “meta” mesmer builds we all know: PU condition, Shatter, Phantasm.

For reference, this was my post:

lordhelmos.7623:

When mesmer gets buffed to have good condition removal next patch, no one will stand up to a good mesmer. Condition weakness is the only thing keeping that class in check.

I’m calling it now, Dec 10th FOTM will be prismatic understanding mesmers loaded with stealths and phantasms.

The buff to moving celerity to 15pts. is going to make phantasms very easy to build for and spam.

They nerfed WS 5 because they seem to want more windows of opportunity for enemies to attack a ranger but look at the mesmer.

Between mirror (projectile reflect), blurred frenzy (longest dodge in the game), distortion (instant invul, can be used while stunned/cc), blink (instant teleport), decoy, veil, and phase retreat; you will NEVER EVER hit a good mesmer.

You can already look at the patch notes and see where the meta is shaping. With vigor nerfed mesmer will be the ONLY class with such an obscene amount of mitigation while still running full glass.

They will devastate every other class in every game mode.

Explain the 20/20/30/10/15 build to me, please. Don’t spread misinformation, please. The Forum is already full of this.
A mesmer going hybrid is a bad mesmer. Even with the upcoming changes, the most common builds will not change all that much.
Phantasm Mesmer (20-20-0-30-0), GS+Sw/Sw or GS+Sw/P will still be the same.
Shatter Mesmer (20-20-0-0-30) GS+Sw/T, or (0-20-20-0-30) Staff+Sw/X will still be the same.
Prismatic Understanding Mesmer (20-20-30-0-0) Staff+Sw/T or Staff+Sc/T will still be the same.

Illusionist Celerity at 15 is still garbage. There are some MUST have traits that any mesmer cannot overlook for building either PU, Shatter or Phantasm.

If you go Shatter, you need 20 in Dueling, 30 in Illusions and 10 in Domination. The last 10 points will be usually spent in Domination for reduced recharge on GS (more damage) or Torch skills (more survivability).

If you go Phantasm, you need 10 in Domination, 10 in Dueling and 25 in Inspiration. The last 25 points are usually spent in Domination and Dueling; even if you decide to spend them in Illusions for Illusionist Celerity at 15, you are going to choose the USELESS Major Trait in Illusions, giving up a nice stat boost for either 10 points in Domination or 10 in Dueling.

If you go PU, you need 20 points in Dueling and 30 in Chaos. Choosing Illusionist Celerity over 20 points in Domination for the Torch trait is just plain stupid.

All in all, the only builds which will be buffed from Dec 10th patch are Phantasm (because Mender’s Purity will now remove 2 conditions instead than 1) and PU (because you will have a SLIGHLY improved condition damage.

Everything else will stay as it is.

I honesly cannot think of a PU phantasm build, since its phantasms will be dealing 0 damage.

Actually, I find really hard for a Phantasm Mesmer to go 15 in Illusions, and the same goes for PU condition mesmers.

Unless it is something based mainly on mantras for support, but I find it hard as our role in sPvP is the one of damage dealers, while in WvW we would rarely invest highly into mantras for roaming. As for zerg support, our utilities are already bound to be Null Field, Veil, Portal, so no place at all for Mantras.
Thing is, the Adept Major trait in Illusions is completely USELESS unless we go for a Shatter Build. The only one worth noticing for other builds is the increased damage per illusion, but that’s really weak. Going 15 into Illusions without relying heavily on shatters is a waste of both a Minor and a Major Adept Traits imho.

What’s your thoughts on the matter? Because everyone is crying about mesmers being buffed, but the only buffs I actually see are:
_ the one to PU mesmers because they’ll have an increased condition damage (I’d say from 100 to 150 more Condition Damage), but that’s still debatable;
_the one to Phantasm Mesmers, as they will have a slightly better Condition Removal for the buff to Mender’s Purity,

Zord.6130:

snip

The 10 points frees up a lot of builds that would go into illusions for the cooldown. Old builds that didn’t use illusionists celerity might be making some trait point changes. This is a variation on the old build I was using – it became a lot more effective gaining clone on dodge and confusion when clones are killed. You’re going to see some interesting combinations that Mesmer will be using on December 10th. I’d argue it wasn’t really worth going 25points into illusions just for the cooldown – but now since its inexpensive to do so it’ll free up build diversity.

This is build I might be testing when the Dec 10th patch hits
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzqpXUTmGb9IipHBHyBcoPcdlZYbXIA-jkwA5wioxqjJiqBA-w

I’d partially agree with the OP, but I find that 33% more Confusion Duration could be useful for Condi based builds as a Major Trait in Illusion Adept.

Jedge.3619:

Zord.6130:

snip

The 10 points frees up a lot of builds that would go into illusions for the cooldown. Old builds that didn’t use illusionists celerity might be making some trait point changes. This is a variation on the old build I was using – it became a lot more effective gaining clone on dodge and confusion when clones are killed. You’re going to see some interesting combinations that Mesmer will be using on December 10th. I’d argue it wasn’t really worth going 25points into illusions just for the cooldown – but now since its inexpensive to do so it’ll free up build diversity.

This is build I might be testing when the Dec 10th patch hits
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzqpXUTmGb9IipHBHyBcoPcdlZYbXIA-jkwA5wioxqjJiqBA-w

Yeah, was thinking of something like that too. You’ll lose 6s cd on The Prestige, but you’ll gain 8s CD on Decoy so the amount of Stealth you will have will be pretty much the same.
BUT the condi removal for Torch Skills was really useful for survivability. Against Condi Heavy classes, that build will not help you staying alive all that much :/

Two trait lines are locked in for me, a third which makes use of the condi remove on heal, which is getting buffed is probably staying, which makes me not have enough for the IC, i’m likely not having any changes… but… we’ll see xD

I agree that the guy you’ve quoted apparently is just another one of those uninformed uhm… people who scream for nerfs without any real justification. However, one thing you’ve said kinda offended me…

Zord.6130:

If you go PU, you need 20 points in Dueling and 30 in Chaos. Choosing Illusionist Celerity over 20 points in Domination for the Torch trait is just plain stupid.

Thank you, sir. I love you too.

I actually gave up on using sword and torch in WvW and use a staff instead. Thus, I’m using 0/30/30/0/10… OH MY GOD; I’M STUPID! Q.Q

That being said; I’ll prolly be even more stupid after december 10th and drop 5 points from dueling into illusions… I don’t really think I’ll miss the additional range for iDuelist that much (well, except that I won’t be able to let it shoot people on the bottom of a wall anymore). On the other hand, it will still have the same cooldown. And in addition, Decoy will have a reduced cooldown as well now. But yeah, I’m stupid. Obviously, torch is the only way to go in a PU-build, because the torch-phantasm is the definition of “awesome”! And it’s not like staff-clones would contribute much more to my damage than the phantasm from torch, and also not like staff helps me escape a zerg much more than the torch… oh well. I’m stupid; how should I know all those things.

P.S.: I don’t have any problems with conditions when I’m using the mantra for cleansing… unless they are being spammed on me; in which case the torch wouldn’t really save me either, because I’d most likely just delay my death for a couple seconds.

0/20/30/0/20 Flimp style is still viable now and will be better with the change to IC.

Why should there be some new ultra builds?
Illusionists Celerity was a 5point Trait for a long time and I cant remeber that manye different builds then nowadays.
I believe, some Hybrid Builds got nerfed when IC was moved, but that’s it basicly.

Buffing Menders Purity seems rly strong to me, however I agree that the only builds rly making profit of this are Phantasm builds.

Why cant we get some interesting new kind of builds?
Shatter and Phantasm Builds exist almost since the beginings of GW2 and Condition builds aren’t that new as well.

i use torch to initiate and give teammates chaos armor at the start. i would use prestiage while charging at the opposing team…..swap to staff and lay down chaos storm on top of them. blast finisher when prestiege ends granting chaos armor for you and team mates near you, usually the other team is unloading their DPS on everyone or running away…towards the end of chaos storm i would phase retreat for another chaos armor on myself as i back out of the fight a bit. if i need chaos armor again i can use staff 4 if needed. if i do end up using staff 4 and fighting is still going on i would drop a null field and do another phase retreat for chaos armor again….iunno…just a play style that i play sometimes and not dependant on traits, but having CD reduction for staff torch or glamour with temporal enchanter, you can keep chaos armor up while giving mates boons, removing conditions, removing boons from enemy players and applying conditions all from rotating skills to keep chaos armor up. i hope i made sense. i hope i do not get quoted. i hope others tried to play like this? use torch not to run and hide? that blast finisher….i’ll tell…made a few friends because of that

I could see a move from 20/20/30 builds to 0/20/30/20/0 builds, especially if the scepter is buffed. Cleanse on heal plus Scepter cooldowns (plus the 200 condi) seems a reasonable trade for going 20 into domination.

I used to run 0 20 30 20 0 now I run 10 20 30 10 0 considering to do that 0 20 30 0 20 hen IC comes back… I’ve never done PU with a torch really, I sometimes switch in for the extra stealth but it wasn’t worth it imo to go into domination just for torch removal nor blast finish or sacrifice two weapon skills when I solo most of the time when I had and will have condi remove from my healing at 15s cd or maybe an extra slot skill condi remove and lemongrass poultry to eat on the fly if needed. id only use torch if I rly wanted to focus on defense with extra stealth PU boons… not trait for condi remove in domination. I run stuff like gs staff , gs s/s , gs s/f, staff s/t if I want to be that tanky which isn’t often. so I don’t have torch enough. PU works and is a staple for just about anything if you needed survivability, just depends how many stealth skills you want

takatsu.9416:

PU works and is a staple for just about anything if you needed survivability, just depends how many stealth skills you want

i agree. the reason i would not use torch with PU is because i would miss a lot of fire fields that mates set up. the fields would end before the blast usually