Mirage Mirrors improvements

Mirage Mirrors improvements

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Honestly, they suck right now. Hell I haven’t even seen Azukas defend them in their current iteration.

That said I think they only need a few small tweaks to be useful:

1 – They should last for 12 seconds after being summoned

2 – Once shattered, they should apply mirage cloak to both you AND all illusions as a baseline effect

Together these two things would already massively improve the mechanic. The first change would allow more tactical use of them (say to not be forced to walk through an AoE to get to them, since you would have time to wait. Or to setup an attack instead of beign forced to shatter it almost immediately). The second change would greatly reduce the need for Infinite Horizon, as it would give us a readily available way to force our clones to use ambush attacks. However, due to the rather limited supply of mirrors, it would still be balanced, and infinite horizon would still have a place (due to dodging giving out mirage cloak as well).

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

I would like them to
1. Still maintain that 4 sec duration.

2. However, when they naturally expire, they still grant the cloak effect to the mirage.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The 12 second duration is due to a new shatter I’m trying to balance for mirage. It would shatter all mirrors on the field, but if they only lasted for 4 seconds it would make it stupidly difficult to ever have more than 1 or 2 in a real scenario when you shatter. Plus, I don’t like passive gameplay like that, I like the aspect that you have to go shatter the mirror to get mirage cloak, it gives real counterplay to them, but your suggestion removes all counterplay to mirrors.

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Posted by: takatsu.9416

takatsu.9416

all I’d like to see is for the mirrors to be permanent and therefore you can somewhat strategically place them over time, lay them all out, plan in advance and reposition yourself throughout a fight, which goes along with the whole mesmer outsmarting others and could be very psychological as they would pose a threat or obstacle to enemies. it would synergize with say, decoy or blink so you can get into right position and trigger a Mirage cloak and ambush bursts that you loaded on the field. I think while mesmer has been very reactionary and fast paced, Mirage is meant to be deception and this kind of thing might give us a different play style and concept

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Posted by: TheOneWhoSighs.7513

TheOneWhoSighs.7513

Here’s my genuine feedback to make mirage mirrors worth, well, anything at all.

1. Completely ditch everything else in the elite spec

2. Rework shatters entirely around mirage mirrors

3. Rework shatter traits to work around mirage mirrors

4. Revamp utilities around mirage mirrors

There.

Imagine a battlefield with loads of mirage mirrors. Mirage mirrors that allies can use. Mirage mirrors that mesmers can jump between. Mirage mirrors that mesmer can generate quite a bit of.

Mirage mirrors that could be used to set up strong AoE damage.

And now imagine Mesmers, with their main handed axe.

Axe 1 has 900 range, applies bleed on the 2nd and 3rd swing, and actually scales with power.

Axe 2 is a defensive roll backwards that leaves a mirage mirror where you were.

Axe 3 is a 900 range lunge that generates a mirage mirror near you if you actually land the hit.

Now build everything else.

“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki

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Posted by: glenndevis.8327

glenndevis.8327

I’d prefer the mirrors to be replaced by something else.
Something that doesn’t make us run towards specific places to get dodges.
Something that’s less annoying to get Mirage Cloak.

The 12 second duration is due to a new shatter I’m trying to balance for mirage. It would shatter all mirrors on the field, but if they only lasted for 4 seconds it would make it stupidly difficult to ever have more than 1 or 2 in a real scenario when you shatter. Plus, I don’t like passive gameplay like that, I like the aspect that you have to go shatter the mirror to get mirage cloak, it gives real counterplay to them, but your suggestion removes all counterplay to mirrors.

It’s like saying you want counterplay to Daredevil’s 3rd endurance bar.
I do agree that having random Mirage Cloaks happen when the time runs out is a bit too passive though. There’s not even a point of there being a mirror in the first place.

I just feel like Mirage needs a mechanic or ability that gives us access to more Mirage Cloaks that doesn’t make us go fetch them or anything. It’s a VERY clunky way of getting more Mirage Cloaks.

What if Jaunt granted Mirage Cloak instead of having the Mirage Mirrors.
Or an F5 skill that grants Mirage cloak with a count charge.

The Mirage Mirrors don’t work in a game like GW2.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

@glenndevis – One of my reworked shatters would actually be a low CD shatter that would shatter up to 3 mirrors on the field to give you mirage cloak on demand (stacking with how many mirrors were shattered). This would solve the problem of having to go get the mirrors, but leaves the option to go get them one at a time if that would work better for you. It would go a long way remove this annoyance from the mirrors imo.

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

Mirage doesn’t really help with clone generation. Chrono has 2 traits to retain illusion and thus is an improvement over base Mesmer.

Mirrors should generate clones when the Mesmer shatters the mirror.

It makes those mirrors more attractive and helps the Mirage with clone generation. It strengths the ambush and our shatters at the same time. Giving the Mesmer more options.

It also is very aesthetic with the Mirage theme.. Its a Mesmer running into a mirror…. and the Mesmer splits in two!!! That’s got Mesmer/Mirage all over it!!

Mirage should be spitting out clones like crazy!!!!! The more clones the more the “is that real..” type of feel that the Mirage is supposed to have.

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
My EchoRupt Build - Forum Post

(edited by SlimChance.6593)

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I agree, every mirror should result in a clone! :o

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

@SlimChance – That’s a neat idea. I’ve been thinking that the traitline should be redone so that Mirage could focus on mirrors if they wanted to, so maybe a trait that gives you a clone when you shatter a mirror instead of that being baseline?

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Posted by: Elessaria.9142

Elessaria.9142

Mirage doesn’t really help with clone generation. Chrono has 2 traits to retain illusion and thus is an improvement over base Mesmer.

Mirrors should generate clones when the Mesmer shatters the mirror.

It makes those mirrors more attractive and helps the Mirage with clone generation. It strengths the ambush and our shatters at the same time. Giving the Mesmer more options.

It also is very aesthetic with the Mirage theme.. Its a Mesmer running into a mirror…. and the Mesmer splits in two!!! That’s got Mesmer/Mirage all over it!!

Mirage should be spitting out clones like crazy!!!!! The more clones the more the “is that real..” type of feel that the Mirage is supposed to have.

Is this in addition to applying cloak or instead of? I was thinking they ought to generate a clone and restore 50 endurance the Mirage can use when they actually want to evade instead of having a 5s window to use or lose whilst simultaneously massively telling your oppenent HEY IM ABOUT TO DODGE YO!

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Id also want to see the mirros not spawn on kittened spots. Iirc one utility makes you dodge backwards and spawns the mirror on your previous location. 11/10 logic right there.

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Posted by: SneakyTouchy.6043

SneakyTouchy.6043

Since they are mirrors, maybe instead they should be focusing on reflective mechanics.

Last longer? Yea definitely. 12 seconds sounds good.

Maybe they can act as an entity that reflects projectiles that attempt to pass through it, like a small wall of reflect.

Pick them up and all damage that is negated by the block is reflected and sent back by some factor to act as a counter.

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Posted by: glenndevis.8327

glenndevis.8327

Mirrors should be removed.
All utilities that spawn Mirrors should just give us Mirage Cloak OR should be buffed in other ways since the Mirrors would be gone.

Give us an F5 skill that gives us Mirage Cloak (or if they REALLY want to keep the Mirrors it could let us spawn a Mirror wherever we want & it stays for 15 seconds or until we touch it.)
The trait that gives us random Mirrors when we shatter should be changed into a trait that when we (or a clone with Mirage Cloak) successfully dodge an attack the cooldown on our F5 gets reduced by a few seconds, applies blindness, confusion & torment to the enemy we just dodged. (few sec cooldown.)

(edited by glenndevis.8327)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I like the mirrors as a design tool, they open up a lot of possibilities. They just need to be improved, so I can’t agree with removing them. But they would be best if, after being fixed, we got traits that improved the mirrors themselves further.

A mirage traitline that had 3 major mirror traits, 3 major traits affecting ambushes/mirage cloak, and 3 major traits for something else would be a much stronger line overall, both thematically and functionally.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Also, a new thought on mirrors. What if they gave 4 or 5 seconds alacrity in a small AoE around you when you shatter them? Someone might cry about how alacrity doesn’t fit thematically, well neither does it fit with Ventari or the Renegade legend, yet both of those have it. So that argument doesn’t really fly.

It’ll be hard enough to lose shield and CS, losing all alacrity on top of that will make mirage a hard sell unless its really kittening good, and right now it isn’t all that great imo.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

What if mirrors had a similar function to gangplanks barrels in LoL? Set up mirrors in an area during a fight and then use a shatter to detonate all of them with specific effects.

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Posted by: Arshay Duskbrow.1306

Arshay Duskbrow.1306

They just need to go away. It was a terrible, terrible idea, and I would prefer they just remove them and focus efforts on improving things that can actually potentially work. “Walk to a thing and touch it” while trying to do everything else you’re supposed to be doing in combat will never not be a clunky and ineffective mechanic.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

What if mirrors had a similar function to gangplanks barrels in LoL? Set up mirrors in an area during a fight and then use a shatter to detonate all of them with specific effects.

That could be cool. Another good idea is increase the numbers of mirros that we can spawn. We got thw mobility to move around and get them more of them would give us alot more chamces for ambushattacks and defensiveness. Also add a small alacrity boost to them (maybe 2 to 3 sec) and you have a great mechanic.

The only flaw i see with mirrors working like barrels is that they are stationary if someone wants to avoid them he simply does so.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

What if mirrors had a similar function to gangplanks barrels in LoL? Set up mirrors in an area during a fight and then use a shatter to detonate all of them with specific effects.

Not familiar with these gangplank barrels, but having shatters actually affect mirrors would be amazing.

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Posted by: glenndevis.8327

glenndevis.8327

After thinking more about it I think the Mirrors could actually become a really interesting mechanic if they would be tied with shatters.

Shatters wouldn’t shatter our clones but instead shatter our mirrors granting us Mirage Cloak + apply a diffirent effects similar to our current shatters in a radius around the mirrors instead.

That way shatters wouldn’t kill our clones & make Mirrors more useful.

F1: Power damage to enemies near the mirror
F2: Confusion & Torment to enemies near the mirror
F3: Daze enemies near the mirror
F4: Distort to allies near the mirror. (would probably be broken. Maybe changed it to blur or Mirage Cloak to allies.)

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Posted by: zanny.9380

zanny.9380

I think mirage mirrors could be useful for zoning. the problem lies within PVP and WVW’s risk to reward. they are not worth actively going for them.
2 ways to improve the biggest complaints I see with the mirage. Mind you I am a returning player who wasn’t a huge fan of the chrono but liked a lot of what the mirage had AND did very well in PVP when playing the mirage.

1. Mirrors: they need punish the enemy for being near them when we proc one.
a)Simply put, they need to stack LARGE amounts of vulnerability OR other condi’s on the enemy. this gives the mirage the ability to control THE battle field while playing in to the risk to reward of being a squishy class and needing to get near our enemy.
b)the length of time they are on the field feels short. we should have the choice of proc a mirror and burst condi’s or let it expire and spawn a clone. that would allow the expiration time to remain the same while still giving us plenty of clone generation. which this class NEEDS in spades to ensure ambushes are worth while.

2. Jaunt: as a whole this skill feels like it has true potential. with all 3 charges you have a 1200 range tele. That’s HUGE. the problem is it isn’t a fast tele.
a) Jaunt doesn’t really synergize well with any skill at all. as such if range must b stuck at 400 then allow the range to be extended to 600 when jaunting to a mirror.
b) an ulti should really change the tide of a battle. its ability to rid condi’s, confuse, and adds mobility sounds good, but it falls short. adding a damage based on enemy missing health would add a reason for power builds to pick this skill up and fix its not so great damage.

I think these few changes could really fix the feel of mirage while sticking closely to what the devs were looking for. this spec has INSANE damage when you play it right. however, it suffers in losing its best ally, phantasms. ambush felt good to me. they worked and did a lot of condi damage. power builds SUFFER a lot in choosing this spec.

last but certainly not least, the super speed minor trait should be given from the get of this spec. move it to the first minor and replace that minor with one of the changes I suggested to mirrors.

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Posted by: Tseison.4659

Tseison.4659

Isn’t there 4-5 main feedback threads already? Wish a mod would combine these threads already.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

This one was created before some of the other ones were. But combining them is a bad idea. separating them by feature allows devs to easily go get feedback on specific parts of the design.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

What if mirrors had a similar function to gangplanks barrels in LoL? Set up mirrors in an area during a fight and then use a shatter to detonate all of them with specific effects.

They already “borrowed” Azir’s sand soldiers for the new Necro spec, so I don’t see why they couldn’t steal Gangplank’s barrels for Mirage.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Mirrors would be great if they also functioned as mini portals, helping with deception and movement. Imagine you can lay down two mirrors maximum and you can port from one to another in a shorter time span than portal, although maybe it would be very difficult to implement.

Being more realistic, they could also give superspeed on dodge as a baseline effect of Mirror Cloak, use that spot to have Infinite Horizon baseline too and make a new grandmaster that would extend your mirrors duration AND make them shatter with our F skills (even making your clones not to be shatered). That way they could tone down ambush skills on clones and make it not “mandatory” as it feels now.

Mirage doesn’t offer much when it comes to shatter builds and these should dramatically change to support Mirage’s playstyle.

I dont think mirage really needs any more mobility. Buffing the range on jaunt should be more than enough.

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Posted by: Munki.9452

Munki.9452

I agree with making Mirrors more tied to Shattering. It could potentially create some interesting skills that could be tailored to different types of gameplay.

First I would add a new ‘shatter’ to the spec… consumes all Mirrors on the field to gain Mirage Cloak. The duration would NOT scale with the number you have (as it would basically just be Shatter 4 then), but it would be a way to have on demand Mirage cloak when needed. It also has a cost of clearing out your mirrors, which as noted below would have other nice bonuses.

Then the mirrors add additional effects to the current shatters… Shatter 1 would cause the standard Shatter 1 effect for your illusions but also cause it around the locations of the Mirrors. Shatter 2 will do it’s normal effect of shattering illusions for confusion, but also generate a new clone (based on current mainhand) at the location of each Mirage Mirror. Shatter 3 could give you alacrity or endurance for each mirror shattered (in addition to standard effect), and Shatter 4 could give you barrier for each mirror shattered (once again in addition to the distortion).

Then you could also have a grandmaster trait to switch things up (which is a pretty common theme with a lot of the new elites). This GM trait would make it so mirrors no longer interact with the normal shatters (but still w/ the 5th one mentioned above). Instead they pulse confusion to a radius around them until they expire. This changes their function in to zone control and makes it so you have a non-shatter based playstyle (also probably works well for PvE dps build).

I’m just brainstorming here, but I think ultimately at the end here I agree that Mirrors just seem lackluster. Littering the playfield with a new type of illusion in addition to our standard clones/phantasms does have promise, but not as just a short lived pickup that is going to be a pain to collect most of the time.

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Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

My original idea was that the mirrors should instead refill a bar of endurance and mirage could gain a third dodge bar (like the dare devil) that can only be filled by mirrors. That way you can actually benefit from the mirrors when you want to. However, I love the clone idea as well.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

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Posted by: Artyport.2084

Artyport.2084

I like the idea of enemies and allies be able to trigger the mirage mirrors.
If the enemy triggers it it shatters and does a good amount of damage and you gain mirage cloak. If ally triggers it you both gain mirage cloak.

and this is a wild dream.
If ally triggers mirage mirror they turn into you for a quick sec and can do an ambush attack.

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

I do not like the idea of profession skills shattering the Mirrors. We already do that with illusions, it isn’t new or interesting. Having illusions not shatter in place of mirrors also feels wrong: it would require a large redesign and is essentially the same concept as Chrono (shatter your illusions and get them back).

Mirrors allow for additional defense in an area. The idea works but feels bad when you cannot take advantage of Mirrors because of expiration or being forced from the position.

The clone concept is cool, but would not change how Mirrors feel in regards to failing to utilise them.

Suggestion: Keep mirrors as they are, but have mirrors spawn a clone at their position on your target when they end before shattering.

Shards of Glass could change from its current implementation to grant two clones per expired mirror with a reasonable internal cooldown should it prove necessary.

This would keep mirrors usable for their intended purpose, help with illusion generation complaints, make mirrors feel better when you cannot shatter them, and would not require a full design rework. It would also allow mirrors to feel like zone control as some folks suggest (especially if Shards of Glass were changed too) because surprise clones into surprise shatter.

Edited for clarity.

(edited by Allarius.5670)