Guild Wars 2

Tallman.5193:

This thread is hilarious: Mesmers convincing themselves Moa Morph isn’t OP as hell.

Moa Morph isn’t for small-scale fights – 1v1 you can dodge it or block it. It’s much more of a problem in 5v5 fights where there are so many spell animations everywhere that you can’t realistically dodge it.

In a tournament the other day, a team ran 2 guardians and 3 mesmers. At the 4v4 teamfight at keep, 2 out of 4 of my teammates were moa’d (the guardian blocked it with his aegis) and they were focused and bursted down via shatter builds before they got out of the bird. This happens constantly to us in tournaments. I’ve started running shatter build myself (with portal) and it’s absurdly OP – Moa Morph is essentially a guaranteed kill in a teamfight with coordinated focus, and Portal is basically a guaranteed point defense if you have a team that is competent at collapsing (not to mention trebuchet repairs).

Mesmers are the most overpowered class in PvP right now. In fact, all the professions are relatively balanced, with the exception of mesmers. Coming from a dude who plays A LOT of mesmer nowadays, it’s seriously ridiculous.

Okay so think about this…

In a 5v5 fight, Moa can essentially take one guy out and make it 4v5 for 10 seconds. Sounds OP right?

Well, not when you consider Time Warp. Time warp can literally DOUBLE the damage output of your entire group for 10 seconds. So instead of 4v5 with Moa, it becomes 5v10.

Now tell me, which ability is better for 5v5?

Please close this topic — it’s already covered ad nauseum here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Another-Mesmer-Moa-Bird-Thread

Try searching the forums first

i remember my first mesemer… then i grew up. lol at moa on your bars

Moa Morph is broken. As a Thief running full Knights set, 3 piece Emerald jewelry with 2 piece beryl and pvp weapons with toughtness and vit(All exotics by the way) I STILL get killed in this CC. What the hell were the devs thinking when they made this ability? The ability to kill ANYONE without having a out, a counter, or a defense is absurd on the highest level.

Oh yea sure I can dodge while transformed but what the hell am I suppose to do for the remaining 8+ seconds? That’s right, nothing.

I don’t care what format of pvp it is no class should be able to shut someone down without any form of an answer and no DODGING the cast is nigh impossible since there is not absolute way to tell what they are casting.

Make it make you invincible for the duration, make it last 4 seconds, make it breakable or something.

When I first saw the moa morph, I was under the assumption that it acted like a Mage’s polymorph or a Shaman’s Hex from WoW. I was very surprised to find out that no amount of damage broke the Moa Morph.

Mesmer is one of the classes I PvP with, and I rarely ever use Moa because it feels wrong :P.

I do use it on Necro’s just to watch all their pets die. Thats just too tempting to not do.

I do believe Moa Morph should break on X amount of damage. It would still be very useful in combat.

In a tournament the other day, a team ran 2 guardians and 3 mesmers. At the 4v4 teamfight at keep, 2 out of 4 of my teammates were moa’d (the guardian blocked it with his aegis) and they were focused and bursted down via shatter builds before they got out of the bird.

And after that happened you respawned, staggered your non-Moa elites, winning the rest of the 2:30 minutes until the Moa cooldown was up, hence proving that while tactically powerful Moa is absolutely useless strategically? Good.

Neb.5347:

When I first saw the moa morph, I was under the assumption that it acted like a Mage’s polymorph or a Shaman’s Hex from WoW. I was very surprised to find out that no amount of damage broke the Moa Morph.

Mesmer is one of the classes I PvP with, and I rarely ever use Moa because it feels wrong :P.

I do use it on Necro’s just to watch all their pets die. Thats just too tempting to not do.

I do believe Moa Morph should break on X amount of damage. It would still be very useful in combat.

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

Hrm, immunity to snares might be a nice sPvP specific nerf. It already runs slightly faster, so if it were to be given immunity to Cripple/Immobilize, then players could quite effectively run away when Moad.

Somna.5168:

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

You can’t heal yourself, or, at least, you can’t consider an heal the skill the Moa has. It heals for a max of 2000 hp on an insane casting time, using that skill means you are committing suicide, not healing.

Every skill in this game isn’t 100% sure to land, the fact that Moa is dodgeable, blockable and can miss, means absolutely nothing.

As a Moa, you have all your skills dumped and all your transformations cancelled, plus you are an useless bird for 10 seconds.
If you don’t see the stupidity of that skill, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that Moa Morph shouldn’t be in this game.

In sPvP there’s actually very few situations where its both:
1. Optimal for the mesmer to have Moa
2. Better to stay after being Moa’d

So the first point is: in pretty much any fight that isn’t a1v1, it’s better to have Time Warp. Time Warp is 10 seconds of Quickness, to all allies in the area – compared to 10 seconds of one person being Moa’d.

In other words, even in a 2v2, Time Warp is equal to or better than Moa (i.e., double your own teams output for 10 seconds or halve theirs by Moa’ing one of them – even this is arguable because as a Moa you still have some utility in a fight; while team warp lets brutal combinations happen, like fast 100 blades and stomp).
So anything over a 1v1, TW is better.

In a 1v1 if you get Moa’d you can withdraw. So the question is, if you get Moa’d, why and when should you stay and fight?
Answers:
Team fight – you should stay if on an objective and you aren’t close to dying. But in this situation as I’ve discussed above, TW is a better option so it’s a good thing you’ve been Moa’d

1v1 defending treb/point: if you are in their territory, withdrawing is fine, you’ve already come out ahead by forcing them to recap a point. If it’s your own territory, you might want to stay (but you should be pinging/asking for assist if its near your spawn anyway).

1v1 attacking a point/treb: if you get Moa’d its fine to withdraw, likely they will need to stay on point/treb, letting you come back in 10 seconds no problem.

Moa used as a defense tactic, rather than offense.
In a group event it is nice to show up and throw a little madness into the fray.
There can be a frenzy of players against a boss that has already downed some players.
Creating the confusion is not always enough to help, but Moa usually gives downed players a chance to recover, or others to come in and assist. 10 seconds to get your act together.
It is also useful for me with ranged attackers and spellcasters, forcing them into close quarters so when they do change back, they are within range for melee players.

Moa Morph being an Elite with a long CD, means there has to be some strategy to it, otherwise it’s wasted. It has never won a battle for me, but it has made my fights more about tactics and planning than direct damage.

QQ ALERT! I used to use Moa Morph but now it’s rarely, if ever, in my skills bar. I much prefer Mass Invisibility and Time Warp. Moa is on a fairly long cooldown and doesn’t really have any benefits besides shutting someone down for 10 seconds…

I’ve been moa’d a few times and have only died once (but that was because I was outnumbered and would’ve died anyway!).

The others time I was moa’d? I didn’t just stand there and panic and think “OMG, I’VE BEEN MOA’D. OP POWER!”… I dodged and ran and dodged again and continued running and before I knew it, I was back to normal again. I’m not even that good a player. I’m a pretty crappy player, honestly. I react far too slowly.

Also… @Raitoken, I’m also running all Knights exotics and more or less the same gear as you and I still get killed. The impression I get from your post is that that gear should somehow make you invincible and immune to death. You’re not invincible. In fact, as a thief, you’re incredibly squishy. I could QQ so much about how you thieves backstab and run off and stealth and are just a nuisance but I don’t.

sorrow.2364:

Somna.5168:

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

You can’t heal yourself, or, at least, you can’t consider an heal the skill the Moa has. It heals for a max of 2000 hp on an insane casting time, using that skill means you are committing suicide, not healing.

Every skill in this game isn’t 100% sure to land, the fact that Moa is dodgeable, blockable and can miss, means absolutely nothing.

As a Moa, you have all your skills dumped and all your transformations cancelled, plus you are an useless bird for 10 seconds.
If you don’t see the stupidity of that skill, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that Moa Morph shouldn’t be in this game.

I’m pointing out differences between Moa Morph and Hex and Polymorph, abilities from another game.

In the other thread when you brought all this crap up, it turned out you are one of those people who makes up a ton of excuses why you can’t run away, or why you can’t win no matter the circumstances. If you can’t see the stupidity in how you presented your arguments, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that you should let someone who has better debating skills argue about it for you.
Just an example of some of the responses in the thread:

EasymodeX.4062:

1. You claim you were winning the fight, but you didn’t even force the Mesmer to pop Decoy earlier. And you even used your elite prior to that. This means you were losing the fight.

2. You were at the Treb, and you did not LOS around the hill when he Decoy’d.

3. You did not dodge the iD/iWarlock (iD particularly easy to dodge).

4. You did not LOS the iD/iW around the hill.

5. The Mesmer has Decoy and SigDom. The Mesmer used neither during the first phase of the fight where you had a modest HP advantage after using your elite. This means you are an inferior player.

Try again — the Mesmer won’t even have Moa for round 2 since its cooldown is so long.

Somna.5168:

sorrow.2364:

Somna.5168:

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

You can’t heal yourself, or, at least, you can’t consider an heal the skill the Moa has. It heals for a max of 2000 hp on an insane casting time, using that skill means you are committing suicide, not healing.

Every skill in this game isn’t 100% sure to land, the fact that Moa is dodgeable, blockable and can miss, means absolutely nothing.

As a Moa, you have all your skills dumped and all your transformations cancelled, plus you are an useless bird for 10 seconds.
If you don’t see the stupidity of that skill, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that Moa Morph shouldn’t be in this game.

I’m pointing out differences between Moa Morph and Hex and Polymorph, abilities from another game.

In the other thread when you brought all this crap up, it turned out you are one of those people who makes up a ton of excuses why you can’t run away, or why you can’t win no matter the circumstances. If you can’t see the stupidity in how you presented your arguments, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that you should let someone who has better debating skills argue about it for you.
Just an example of some of the responses in the thread:

EasymodeX.4062:

1. You claim you were winning the fight, but you didn’t even force the Mesmer to pop Decoy earlier. And you even used your elite prior to that. This means you were losing the fight.

2. You were at the Treb, and you did not LOS around the hill when he Decoy’d.

3. You did not dodge the iD/iWarlock (iD particularly easy to dodge).

4. You did not LOS the iD/iW around the hill.

5. The Mesmer has Decoy and SigDom. The Mesmer used neither during the first phase of the fight where you had a modest HP advantage after using your elite. This means you are an inferior player.

Try again — the Mesmer won’t even have Moa for round 2 since its cooldown is so long.

I’ve gave up arguing with those guys because the thread went to a point that people were stating the same things over and over, doing stupid theorycrafting to justify Moa. I’ve fallen in error while I’ve let the thread going that way, but I’m not doing it again.

Anyway digging up an old topic to answer my statement seems pretty stupid and childish, considering you didn’t answered my post at all. But if you are going to focus your argument about the fact that Moa can be dodged, please, don’t even try.

sorrow.2364:

Somna.5168:

sorrow.2364:

Somna.5168:

Unlike Hex or Polymorph, Moa actually lets you run away, heal yourself, and daze people. You also can’t Moa someone you can’t target, or if you get blinded. And there’s other problems with it too.

Unless you’re one of those people who just stand there indignantly and give up if it gets cast on you.

The only thing wrong with it that a majority of people actually agree on is the instant-toast of Necro minions. But really, that’s more of a necro bug than a Moa issue. :P Really, Moa is a glorified player taunt. Maybe they should add an immunity to snares on it just to drive home the point that Moas don’t just stand there like idiots.

You can’t heal yourself, or, at least, you can’t consider an heal the skill the Moa has. It heals for a max of 2000 hp on an insane casting time, using that skill means you are committing suicide, not healing.

Every skill in this game isn’t 100% sure to land, the fact that Moa is dodgeable, blockable and can miss, means absolutely nothing.

As a Moa, you have all your skills dumped and all your transformations cancelled, plus you are an useless bird for 10 seconds.
If you don’t see the stupidity of that skill, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that Moa Morph shouldn’t be in this game.

I’m pointing out differences between Moa Morph and Hex and Polymorph, abilities from another game.

In the other thread when you brought all this crap up, it turned out you are one of those people who makes up a ton of excuses why you can’t run away, or why you can’t win no matter the circumstances. If you can’t see the stupidity in how you presented your arguments, I don’t know what to say… It is clear and obvious that you should let someone who has better debating skills argue about it for you.
Just an example of some of the responses in the thread:

EasymodeX.4062:

1. You claim you were winning the fight, but you didn’t even force the Mesmer to pop Decoy earlier. And you even used your elite prior to that. This means you were losing the fight.

2. You were at the Treb, and you did not LOS around the hill when he Decoy’d.

3. You did not dodge the iD/iWarlock (iD particularly easy to dodge).

4. You did not LOS the iD/iW around the hill.

5. The Mesmer has Decoy and SigDom. The Mesmer used neither during the first phase of the fight where you had a modest HP advantage after using your elite. This means you are an inferior player.

Try again — the Mesmer won’t even have Moa for round 2 since its cooldown is so long.

I’ve gave up arguing with those guys because the thread went to a point that people were stating the same things over and over, doing stupid theorycrafting to justify Moa. I’ve fallen in error while I’ve let the thread going that way, but I’m not doing it again.

Anyway digging up an old topic to answer my statement seems pretty stupid and childish, considering you didn’t answered my post at all. But if you are going to focus your argument about the fact that Moa can be dodged, please, don’t even try.

I see no questions in your post, just rehashed complaints from the old thread in question. I have already stated the reason for my post with the following line:

I’m pointing out differences between Moa Morph and Hex and Polymorph, abilities from another game.

Your complaints have no relevance to that subject.

Turtles All The Way Down.5608:

Moa Morph is absolutely overpowered. There’s a reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have hard cc, and there’s a reason games that do aren’t competitive.

I’m sorry.. What? Last I checked League of Legends, Dota and other moba games were “Competitive” To the point where they have large tournaments every weekend. Name a game of league that there ISN’T cc used.

This threads gone off topic, the focus of this was that the skill Moa Morph was overpowered, not its relativity to Timewarp or any other skills, just Moa Morph.

Coming from a Thief (Easier to deal with when compared to warrior)/Warrior (Pure melee builds) Moa Morph is extremely tough to deal with in a 1v1 situation.

This is how most 1v1 situations with a Mesmer and a warrior will be carried out:

Mesmer chucks down a bunch of clones/illusions, very typical, warrior is still closing to melee range; and making sure they are targeting the right Mesmer. Illusions are dishing out their damage, warrior is relatively close to the Mesmer (At this stage it’s pretty chaotic already, 3-5+ illusions, dealing about 2-3k damage). Warriors now in melee range, and if they have managed to work out which mesmers real, they’re doing their normal burst damage combo. Other than that, normal fighting ensues (Mesmer is probably at 1/3-1/2 hp, warriors on around 3/8-1/2 hp). Seems pretty fair, can go either way depending on each players actual skill/experience with the class and the one they’re versing. However, throwing in Moa Morph into the mix changes things a lot.

Odds are the mesmers going to use their Moa Morph when you are either nearing melee range (I’d say around 900 in-game range) or just about into melee range. The Mesmers already dropped a bunch of clones, you aren’t too sure which mesmers which; its difficult to say if he’s casting Moa Morph or not (It’s very easy to tell if a warriors using his kill shot ability, takes a knee, obvious animation, no illusions around). You get hit by it (At the moment, i can’t see many ways to avoid being hit by it as long as you are within range (Mesmer wouldn’t bother using the skill if you could easily get out of its range in the first place) except dodging, which if you haven’t used them already is going to be very tough to nail right). Only thing you can do: run. Every illusions is still dishing out hefty damage to you on top of the Mesmer, every time i’ve been morphed i’ve been crippled, getting out of range of anything is hard. You do your best to dodge and get away, but by the end of the 8 seconds, you’re health is certainly below half meaning that, as long as the Mesmer didn’t just go full kitten you are not coming out of this fight on top (Main reasons being, plenty of illusions still beating the hell out of you, you are well out of melee range – you’ve been running away from the Mesmer, you have no dodges and if you’re really unlucky, you popped all/some of your cooldowns right before you were Morphed).

So, a reasonably fair fight was made unbalanced with the use of a single skill (Albeit an ulti-skill, but this thread isn’t exactly about that). The only thing i could recommend is making it slightly easier to dodge, limit the Mesmers damage dealing capabilities during the duration (Destroys all or some illusions after a successful cast) or give the poor sod hit by the skill some extra survivability so that they don’t get horribly murdered if a slightly more normal 1v1 fight ensued afterwards.

Hey guys, this one time I was losing a fight, then I used Decoy to drop target. Then I got behind the bad guy and then killed him.

Decoy OP!

This other time, I was being attacked by some dude and then I used my knockback, then I killed him from perma kiting. Man that knockback is overpowered. Nerf!

That other day, I died from taking damage. Nerf damage.

Blackout.3247:

Coming from a Thief (Easier to deal with when compared to warrior)/Warrior (Pure melee builds) Moa Morph is extremely tough to deal with in a 1v1 situation.

…

Mesmer chucks down a bunch of clones/illusions, very typical, warrior is still closing to melee range; and making sure they are targeting the right Mesmer. Illusions are dishing out their damage, warrior is relatively close to the Mesmer (At this stage it’s pretty chaotic already, 3-5+ illusions, dealing about 2-3k damage). Warriors now in melee range, and if they have managed to work out which mesmers real, they’re doing their normal burst damage combo.

Odds are the mesmers going to use their Moa Morph when you are either nearing melee range (I’d say around 900 in-game range) or just about into melee range. The Mesmers already dropped a bunch of clones, you aren’t too sure which mesmers which; its difficult to say if he’s casting Moa Morph or not (It’s very easy to tell if a warriors using his kill shot ability, takes a knee, obvious animation, no illusions )

…

I am not sure what game you are playing, but Mesmers can only have a maximum of three illusions out, which includes both phantasms and clones.

Clones do no damage, and the phantasms that do are not hitting that hard.

Phantasms look nothing like real players, easily distinguishable by the fact they look Like ghosts.

Clones look just like the player except for having no offhand, but they do NOTHING but auto attack, they do not cast… They do not even move unless they have to reposition in order to keep their auto attack going. Therefore, you can quite easily tell if the Mesmer itself is casting something like Moa, and it gives away which is real.

Can be dodged, blocked, interrupted, LOS’ed. Not hard to do with the long cast. Classes critting for 10k now thats truly broken ahem theif/war

^

So Mind Wrack is broken because it can exceed 10k?

EasymodeX.4062:

^

So Mind Wrack is broken because it can exceed 10k?

Mink wrack exceed 10k? ive never heard of that. at best with 3 clones, + all of them critting it would be around 5k

Lol.

On a lowbie in WvW my 1x Mind Wrack crits for up to 5100.

Edit: My 3x in a Mantra build or 4x in an IP build exceed 10k in PvE (PvE mobs have higher armor than lowbies in WvW …).

I dont see the point of Moa. As a mesmer, I do all my damage when you spam your skills.
Maybe if it were AoE.

PLZ NO MOA MY THIEF. mesmers are annoying enough already with the clones

Hartayke.7349:

I am not sure what game you are playing, but Mesmers can only have a maximum of three illusions out, which includes both phantasms and clones.

My fault here, i had no idea how many they could have out (Thought it was just unlimited), it seems much more for me because i will always quickly take down one of the purple ones if i’m near it, meaning the Mesmer just throws out some more.

Hartayke.7349:

Clones do no damage, and the phantasms that do are not hitting that hard.

Wut? If you think the purple illusions don’t do much damage, you’re playing a different game.

Hartayke.7349:

Clones look just like the player except for having no offhand, but they do NOTHING but auto attack, they do not cast… They do not even move unless they have to reposition in order to keep their auto attack going. Therefore, you can quite easily tell if the Mesmer itself is casting something like Moa, and it gives away which is real.

Offhand? Practically every Mesmer i see is a greatsword one – thats not going to help. Even if you were able to see them casting it, your only hope is to dodge which is again, tough to time (And you might not have any dodges left anyway, also playing from Australia means a 300-500 ping all the time, timing things perfectly sucks).

So general consensus is; dodge the skill and win easily or get hit by it then die horribly? (Melee classes here are the biggest hit by this, if you’re ranged then it’ll still be a pretty solid fight…most times)

I AM NOT A MESMER and i totally agree that Moa jsut isnt that bad, while it sucks to be a moa like others here i dont remember the last time i was killed…wait a second yes i do.

the reason i remember it is because it was a 2v2 situation and i was going to entangle them so i charge in and poof i am a moa. now the reason this last time is so memorable is because they didnt just ignore me like most do when i am a moa and they didnt just let me run away. they combo’d a daze along with it and then i got hit pretty hard until dead.

all that being said…MOA IS NOT OP its powerful and it has a short CD compared to the other options you have as a mesmer. the reason for that is the other 2 choices are MOA BETTAH (ok sorry for that one)

when i tried out mesmer to learn about the class i most certainly used Moa and i found that it is more of an oh sith button to get out of trouble than anything, if i find myself in a situation i wont win i can use Moa to control the offending issue until help gets here. but its an elite so it has to be useful in some way:)

anyhow from the stand point of a NON MESMER ….MOA IS NOT OP!

caps installed for lazy people who need TLDR garbage

I really don’t care about Moa that much, the only thing I hate as a Necro is that it can completely nullify my Plague form which almost certainly could turn the tide in a group fight.

You can’t say it isn’t broken. No other CC in the game is nearly as bad. Dodging a mesmer spell is really not so easy when they can turn invisible and have confusing clones. If you get moa off, you win the fight, simple as that.

Compare moa to the warrior elites. Does blowing the signet win it? No, it gives a nice little buff, but it is extremely average. Give every other class a skill that instantly kills your target on a 5 minute cooldown and say it is balanced because it has a cooldown.

Warrior signet elite has a passive effect. Its active effect is diluted by both its low-ish cooldown and its Signet nature.

Thieves guild is pretty brutal, guardian tomes can be rather potent. Warrior’s transform would great if it weren’t bad, but it’s bad. Shrug.

Jericho.4521:

I really don’t care about Moa that much, the only thing I hate as a Necro is that it can completely nullify my Plague form which almost certainly could turn the tide in a group fight.

If you Blind the Mesmer, Moa misses, and Plagueform does that, doesn’t it?

Pretty much this. Yes, MOA is powerful, but it can be easily countered by dodging or blocking. The cast is 2 seconds long with a pretty visible animation. Moreover, as a bird, you can move and dodge, just run away and dodge. To “balance” it – I would suggest adding better bird abilities, something more useful, because no on ever uses the Moa abilities, it is better to just run away.

Colton Bole.7015:

Moa Morph is powerful. VERY powerful in smaller scale PVP, but it loses effectiveness in two ways:

1.) The player can flee and avoid combat once he’s moa’d. I know I haven’t died to being moa’d in a while thanks to being able to flee.

2.) In large scale PVP, taking one person temporarily out of commission for some seconds is rather lackluster (in most cases), especially when compared to group-wide quickness or stealth that other elite skills bring to the table.

Although it’s annoying when you’re turned into the kitten bird, it’s definitely able to be dealt with. I wouldn’t call it anywhere near an I WIN button unless we’re talking about 1v1 PVP, which the game isn’t balanced around anyways.

Blackout.3247:

This threads gone off topic, the focus of this was that the skill Moa Morph was overpowered, not its relativity to Timewarp or any other skills, just Moa Morph.

I stopped reading your post there…

IF you are to talk about one elite, you HAVE to see it relativity of the others elites, specially other mesmer elites, since you cant have more than one elite on at a time…

Novalitus.7382:

OMG THE MESMER HAS ONE GOOD MOVE! WE GOT TO NERF THAT ONE TOO!!!!!

Lol about one good move i hope that was sarcasm.

Blackout.3247:

My fault here, i had no idea how many they could have out (Thought it was just unlimited), it seems much more for me because i will always quickly take down one of the purple ones if i’m near it, meaning the Mesmer just throws out some more.

A mesmer’s supply of clones is very dependent on their weapon and utilities. Personally I love the trait that produces a clone every time I dodge in combat. I run with bountiful ways to produce clones and confuse enemies (literally and the condition).

Blackout.3247:

Wut? If you think the purple illusions don’t do much damage, you’re playing a different game.

It’s very true some builds have terrific phantasm damage, but not all. For me phantasms are more of a side show and little damage (since you can’t know whether I’m traited for phantasm damage, people will often attack them, which makes them just as useful as a clone for that).

Blackout.3247:

Offhand? Practically every Mesmer i see is a greatsword one – thats not going to help.

Ah, well good news then. The clones a greatsword skill produces will spawn right next to you, and the mesmer with a GS gets much more damage by being far away. So ANY greatsword mesmer standing right next to you is a fake, scan the horizon for the one far away shooting a beam at you. I’m not certain how it works with utility skill clones from a GS user though, those might be near the mesmer but they’re far less frequent.

As for Moa, I actually haven’t used it in pvp yet on my mesmer, but I have been moa’d before. I don’t see many players honing their focus on mesmers so hard they can see a moa coming and be certain they can avoid it. If your enemy runs with moa it’ll probably happen to you eventually, even if you are great at dodging it. I figure it’s more important what you do once you’re moa’d, since there’s lots of other things to avoid before he uses that.

Personally, I run behind stuff, buy time however, and that usually keeps me safe from new attacks for the duration. If you’re unlucky enough to run into a condition mesmer who isn’t heavy on confusion, AND you’re trying to defend a point solo, god help you. But that’s pretty niche.