Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
(edited by tetrodoxin.2134)
Moving on to Signets?
Don’t forget that Signet of Midnight is a instant-cast Stun Break with an Unblockable AoE 5-target Blind. You can pair it well with Blurred Inscriptions, if you wish to try doing something with that.
Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest
Seafarer’s Rest
Instead, the active could give all illusions a certain amount of offensive boons, like fury and some stacks of might.
Just to point out Might doesn’t do anything for the Phants if its on them – they do however benefit from Might stacks on the Mesmer.
I would LOVE Sig of Illusions to have no cast time but its the only one I’m focused on being changed to be usable. The others are either good for their purpose and shouldn’t be buffed more or need a complete rework to be worth the slot – even fully traited for Distortion and Condi Remove i would still take Blink over Sig of Midnight.
Don’t forget that Signet of Midnight is a instant-cast Stun Break with an Unblockable AoE 5-target Blind. You can pair it well with Blurred Inscriptions, if you wish to try doing something with that.
I did not forget that – however, do we really need another stunbreak utility? We have plenty of options that are way more flexible. The blind is still meh, and the blurred inscriptions point applies to all signets.
Just to point out Might doesn’t do anything for the Phants if its on them – they do however benefit from Might stacks on the Mesmer.
Totally forgot that! Well, the basic idea was to buff the phantasm damage for a short period of time, or the next attack loop. I guess anet would find a way to apply such a buff, one way or another. Changed the opening post, thanks for pointing that out.
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
Don’t forget that Signet of Midnight is a instant-cast Stun Break with an Unblockable AoE 5-target Blind. You can pair it well with Blurred Inscriptions, if you wish to try doing something with that.
I did not forget that – however, do we really need another stunbreak utility? We have plenty of options that are way more flexible. The blind is still meh, and the blurred inscriptions point applies to all signets.
I said this in another thread at some point, but I’ll say it again here.
Signet of midnight makes no sense. It’s a pbaoe instant blind. It’s also a stunbreak. If paired with the trait, it’s also an invuln.
So, if you blind your target, you don’t need the stunbreak. If you need the stunbreak, it means you already got hit, the blind isn’t super useful. If it’s an invuln, then you don’t need the blind OR the stunbreak.
Yes, there are situations where multiples of its uses can be helpful. However, that doesn’t make it any more cohesive in these non-niche situations.
- Signet of Midnight (30s CD)
- Passive: Improves boon duration (10%).
- Active: Blind nearby foes (5s).
Complete garbage in my eyes. The passive as well as the active aren’t worth taking in any build I’ve ever played, and I have played a lot Mesmer builds.
Instead and in addition to the Signet of Illusions change, this Signet should be reshaped to a Shatter-Signet (rename it accordingly):
[/i]
I’m pretty offended by this statement considering I run S. Midnight in a lot of my builds. First off, S. Midnight works much better as a stun breaker than Decoy in ALL boon share builds, because it gives extra boon upkeep. Secondly, it has an extremely low CD compared to Decoy.
Lastly, this is one of the BEST tools we have for stomping. Remember, this is AOE unblockable, so not only do you blind the ranger/guard using their two, but you also blind their teammates trying to use knockbacks on you. This also works when you’re trying to rez your teammate.
S. Midnight gives you more utility for your entire team than any stunbreak that the Mesmer has in its kitten nal. It has a low CD. And the passive isn’t great, but it isn’t horrible either.
I’m running 0/4/6/4/0 with CI, BI and Vigorous Revelation boon share support fyi.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
1)So, if you blind your target, you don’t need the stunbreak. 2)If you need the stunbreak, it means you already got hit, the blind isn’t super useful. 3)If it’s an invuln, then you don’t need the blind OR the stunbreak.
I’ll take each of your above statements one by one:
1. If you’re using S. Midnight offensively for the blind, you’re using it wrong.
2. The point of a stunbreaker is for when you get hit, so it actually IS useful to have a blind, because that stops your enemy from executing a skill rotation that they’re in the middle of attempting because they just stunned you.
3. In a signet build, yes you still need the invuln. You’re assuming ALL of your enemies are in the 360 blind range of S. Midnight, which more than likely isn’t the case. You blind melee ranged enemies as well as invuln from enemies kiting you.
Like I said in the above post, S. Midnight should primarily be used as a stunbreaker that messes up the skill rotations of melee ranged enemies. Additionally, this is one of the Mesmer’s only ways of getting a near perfect stomp without having to use Distortion (which I like to use for escapes rather than stomps).
Now if you’re looking at fights from a 1v1 perspective, then S. Midnight is garbage compared to Decoy/Blink. I’ll give you that.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
Sorry for the triple post! eeek! Other thoughts now that my ranting out of my system. lol
I love the signets for Mesmer except for S. Illusions. It really is contradictory. The fact that they’re giving us a better one for shattering while not changing this one is mind boggling. The CD is astronomical and makes no sense. I’d rather see it do something more defensive like give all your clones Aegis/Protection/Regen for 5s or simply max out their health on active.
This would give more flexibility to support phantasm builds that utilize iDisenchanter OR phantasm tanks that use iDefender.
Signet of Inspiration could use a buff of sorts as it really is only used in boon share builds like mine or for those wanting the swiftness. If they simply gave it a passive speed boost, I’d love it forever and ever.
I LOVE the new Signet. I don’t tend to run 6 into Illusions, because I hate the idea of depending on DE, which restricts build diversity and the opportunity to take other shatter traits in other trees. I will definitely be making some interesting shatter builds with the use of this signet.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
Sorry for the triple post! eeek! Other thoughts now that my ranting out of my system. lol
I love the signets for Mesmer except for S. Illusions. It really is contradictory. The fact that they’re giving us a better one for shattering while not changing this one is mind boggling. The CD is astronomical and makes no sense. I’d rather see it do something more defensive like give all your clones Aegis/Protection/Regen for 5s or simply max out their health on active.
This would give more flexibility to support phantasm builds that utilize iDisenchanter OR phantasm tanks that use iDefender.
Signet of Inspiration could use a buff of sorts as it really is only used in boon share builds like mine or for those wanting the swiftness. If they simply gave it a passive speed boost, I’d love it forever and ever.
I LOVE the new Signet. I don’t tend to run 6 into Illusions, because I hate the idea of depending on DE, which restricts build diversity and the opportunity to take other shatter traits in other trees. I will definitely be making some interesting shatter builds with the use of this signet.
Uhm.
That was something tetrodoxin put as an idea….
-_-
-_-
#tears
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
Signet of Illusions (90s CD)
Passive: Grants more health to your illusions.
Active: Recharge your shatter skills.This is where it gets messy. The passive seems right for this Signet, but it completely contradicts the active.
I’ve seen this argument a lot, but the signet does assist shattering for long-range clones; they’re more likely to survive AE as they run into to their target. But with that said, it’s still crummy as clones run so slowly. Perhaps if it also made your clones run at Selo speed it might be more useful for shattering.
Sephire Blackrose
- A crummy Mesmer on Piken Square
- A crummy Mesmer on Piken Square
I said this in another thread at some point, but I’ll say it again here.
Signet of midnight makes no sense. It’s a pbaoe instant blind. It’s also a stunbreak. If paired with the trait, it’s also an invuln.
So, if you blind your target, you don’t need the stunbreak. If you need the stunbreak, it means you already got hit, the blind isn’t super useful. If it’s an invuln, then you don’t need the blind OR the stunbreak.
Yes, there are situations where multiples of its uses can be helpful. However, that doesn’t make it any more cohesive in these non-niche situations.
I don’t see why you would use the active when not needing a Stun Break. If I need the Stun Break, it means I got hit by something that disabled me. I sure wish enemies would stop with that and not try to follow up with another attack or two. If all they wanted was to disable me and then to run off collecting flowers, I’d.. I don’t even. That’d be amazing?
What’s perhaps not as amazing, is to trait it for 1s of Distortion when using the active. I’ll agree to that. Though it can have its uses too. The signet on its own however, I think is alright. I don’t think it “doesn’t make sense”. You break yourself out of a situation that typically leads to something hitting you hard, while at least attempting to avoid it by blinding your adversaries in a 360 range radius around you (a bit better than Point Blank). That is a nice combination in my opinion. It’s the shortest recharge signet we got as well.
The Boon duration increase isn’t terrible either, although it’s not necessarily great, considering 10% is a rather meager increase on our Boons unless you’re using it in a Boon-oriented build. It’d at least bring it up to 40% with 6 points invested in Chaos. A tree that has access to a few ways of generating Boons when you think about it. Some random ways and some non-random ways, in either case, they’re still ways. And no, that doesn’t mean we should take PU, haha. Unless you want to of course. I don’t judge anyone if they want to use it, that’s their choice.
________
[ My view of our signets ]
Signet of Ether, I don’t like that the passive heal is completely non-existing without having Illusions up. I would like to see it gain a very minor stream of health going even without Illusions being present. The active from it is very nice.
Signet of Domination, I think is in a decent place. It can boost some condition damage, and it’s a Stun should you want to have more interrupts at your hands. 45 seconds on the recharge may be a wee bit too much for my taste granted, but it’s a good passive/active setup.
Signet of Illusions, is the only one of the signets which does not make much sense. To me at least. As has been said, you have a signet that increases the health of our clones, but that has an active revolving around killing the clones more. It’s also got a minute and thirty seconds recharge time, which I find to be simply way too long. I understand the power in it, as it can allow for 3 Mind Wracks in a fairly short time, if combined with Illusionary Invigoration and “allowing” yourself to take damage. But that’d be a very one-trick pony kind of setup, with reduced utility for long periods of time between each burst. I think this one should be re-designed. Either flavor it more towards shatters, or clone survival not both in one.
Signet of Inspiration, perfectly alright signet. I guess it would be nice to rather have it as a movement increasing passive as suggested in the opening post. There’s currently 3 of 7 professions who does not have a signet with such a functionality (Engineer’s have none). Warrior, Guardian—the two Heavy users—and Mesmer. I don’t mind how it’s random Boon application however. It’s unique, and fits well with the great active of copying your Boons to your allies.
Signet of Midnight, I actually like it for what it does. If you missed my views on it, read the post from the start, I somewhat explained it up top.
PS: Kitten the kitten of the kitten kitten kitten because kitten kitten even if you write proper english. Yay for kitten system. It’s kitten kitten kitten and some more kittens added to it. Did I get the kitten out of me now? Meow.
Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest
Seafarer’s Rest
(edited by Absconditus.6804)
Some time ago I started with some ’’discussion’’ threads to discuss which skills and traits should be changed and so I also made one for signets:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Discussion-Utility-s-Signets-Rework/first#post4002210
Signets are like below mantra’s and never really been in or even close to the meta besides signet of domination.
What I would like to see:
Signet of Illusions (90s CD)
Passive: Grants you illusions swiftness.
Active: Recharge your shatter skills.
Signet of Midnight (30s CD)
Passive: Grants more health to your illusions
Active: Blind nearby foes (5s).
…
Hey, no reason to be offended. It’s just how I feel about the skill. I’m actually glad someone who likes Signet of Midnight posted here! Seems like this one really splits the community.
I just don’t see it personally. 10% boon duration is quite underwhelming considering our base durations aren’t that good. As Absconditus noted, it may be interesting in combination with a Chaos-6 build. But even then, I’d pick other skills with more (team) utility over additional 10% boon duration.
Plus, one blind (per target) also isn’t that much in this game. It’s one AA swing, or the first hit in a skill like 100b. Using it as a panic button, I’d rather blink 900-1200 away or stealth myself, in any case.
Be it a significant buff or a rework – this Signet needs love.
@Absconditus:
I love how the Mesmer community is always concerned about getting OP, a great thing imo. You mentioned that the 90s CD on Signet of Illusions may prevent a once-in-a-lifetime triple Mindwrack situation – and you may be right, this could be the reasoning behind the CD – but just consider stuff like Fresh Air, I don’t think this argument (as exotic as it sounds) applies to the game anymore. So yeah, I agree. A redesign seems necessary. And I don’t think swiftness on illusions would be the answer. If my shatter does not hit, it would not have hit with swiftness either. Well, in most cases.
As I said in the opening post, I’d love to see two seperated signets, one dedicated to shatter, and the other dedicated to phantasm builds. Make it happen, anet =0
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
In contrast to signet of midnight, decoy and blink allows you to re-position yourself better imo. You can probably escape the stun chain with SoM, but it won’t be as versatile as those 2 skills. I understand SoM can help with stomp, but you can also achieve that with decoy or phase retreat+blink.
I probably would replace SoI with blink into shatter build if CD time is reduced and I’m dueling. Coping with 60s illusionary invigoration trait is one thing, but coping with a 90s utility really makes me wonder…
I use Signet of Illusions in mt PPU build mainly because I’m traited for Illusionary Defense.
BUT I would never ever ever have a reason to use the signet…that passive is just too good.
Devona’s Rest
Agreed, Decoy and Blink are better for positioning, but I still think S. Midnight is the best for stomping AND rezzing teammates out of all the stunbreakers. You will still get knocked back by a warrior or guardian with Decoy, and blinking with Phase Retreat is harder because you need to use two skills to both not be on CD.
And you’re right, the 10% is underwhelming.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
Signets aren’t that bad right now. I feel that the main issue with Signet is that traiting them usually isn’t worth it. Because the traits only pay off if you can use at least two Signets at once. However, this isn’t too likely because most Signets only appeal to a certain crowd.
Things I would enjoy:
Signet of Ether
Add a small constant life regeneration while keeping the maximum possible amount of regeneration. There is absolutely no point in not having a benefit at all when there are no Illusions around.
Signet of Domination
I’d love seeing the condition damage being changed to condition duration. Condition duration is useful for almost every Mesmer playstyle while condition damage is not.
Signet of Illusions
As other stated: It is pretty inconsistent. Why the additional health while the active encourages shattering illusions? Why not make it work similar to the new Triumphant Distortion? Shattered illusions could gain Distortion for x seconds.
Signet of Inspiration
Since we will probably never get a passive speed buff why not at least make the random boon also apply to allies? I don’t think this would be a big deal.
Signet of Midnight
The boon duration appears to be a bit too low. Could easily be 15% or even 20%.
A different thought:
Why not mix up the Signet of Inspiration and the Signet of Midnight? The Signet of Inspiration could grant the additional boon duration. The Signet of Midnight could reduce the duration of incomming conditions. Or reduce the effect of control impairing effects. This would feel a lot more consistent than it is right now.
I agree with what other posters have said about the signets in general. Xaylin, I agree about signet of ether, but I think it might be a hard sell to get a small constant heal without investment. I do think it would be cool if it synergized with Illusionary Persona to “count” the mesmer as a clone for purposes of the signet just like it does with shatter. Its a costly investment, but getting the heal up to a fourth level would be nice for those who sacrificed the energy to trait up to it.
I absolutely agree about Signet of Illusions being weird. Its like chopping off your hand to feed your feet; there’s just no synergy with how the active and passive work and that’s a bad sell for a signet. It needs a rework, no question from one who used it extensively.
SoI – being a glass cannon style class, I see no reason why running away quickly is a bad thing. Remember healbot blues? There’s a reason the monk complained about every class getting a speed buff but the squishy ultra targeted monk in the backline never got a speed buff for his class.
SoM – Okay, I have a beef with this. We already have a hard “cap” of 100% for boon duration already. Does doubling boon duration’s have that big of an impact? I would like to know, because it seems kind of silly to nerf boon duration as much as they have. I would at least like to know their rationale. That said, I think the passive of this skill would be better served in assisting in some other fashion. I fail to see how a blind is related to increasing the duration of boons and when a signet lacks synergy, it should simply get a rework until it looks like it makes some sense.
I like your ideas for the signets aside from Midnight; I think it is an under-valued signet just because Decoy and Blink exist. The active for Midnight and it’s recharge are quite strong, but it’s main value is that it is a signet. I would like to see a passive rework for midnight (which is very weak) and an elite signet of some sort in addition to the changes that you mentioned, and with that I think a full sig. build (aside from bringing portal) would be a viable pvp build.
Signet of Ether
Add a small constant life regeneration while keeping the maximum possible amount of regeneration. There is absolutely no point in not having a benefit at all when there are no Illusions around.
It’s a thought, but honestly it’s already the best heal for most mesmers and needs the drawback.
Signet of Domination
I’d love seeing the condition damage being changed to condition duration. Condition duration is useful for almost every Mesmer playstyle while condition damage is not.Signet of Illusions
As other stated: It is pretty inconsistent. Why the additional health while the active encourages shattering illusions? Why not make it work similar to the new Triumphant Distortion? Shattered illusions could gain Distortion for x seconds.
Agree with Domination Signet. Illusions… I like the idea of the active giving them a buff, perhaps 5 stacks of might and 5s swiftness on a 60/90s cooldown?
Signet of Inspiration
Since we will probably never get a passive speed buff why not at least make the random boon also apply to allies? I don’t think this would be a big deal.Signet of Midnight
The boon duration appears to be a bit too low. Could easily be 15% or even 20%.
A different thought:
Why not mix up the Signet of Inspiration and the Signet of Midnight? The Signet of Inspiration could grant the additional boon duration. The Signet of Midnight could reduce the duration of incomming conditions. Or reduce the effect of control impairing effects. This would feel a lot more consistent than it is right now.
SoI could even do with 10% boon duration and 25% movement speed in one. The existing random boon thing is a nice idea but it would need a better average return to justify the slot.
As for Signet of Midnight, I’d suggest 10-20% condition duration reduction on the passive, with the 5s blind plus a 10s Power Block-style cooldown increase on one target to give it an offensive angle as well as the defensive. That would need something closer to 60s cooldown on the signet though.
Signet of Ether
Add a small constant life regeneration while keeping the maximum possible amount of regeneration. There is absolutely no point in not having a benefit at all when there are no Illusions around.It’s a thought, but honestly it’s already the best heal for most mesmers and needs the drawback.
Just a quick note. Signet of the ether is only the best heal if the mesmer doesn’t actually need to rely on it for healing. The active is weak and on a very long cooldown, and the passive is outhealed by ether feast quite significantly, even under absolutely perfect conditions.
Cooldown can be reduced a little with a trait, but I’ll give you that. It might be the instant recharge on phantasms that got me hooked.
What if it converted a condition to a boon every 10 seconds?
sig of ether should be reduced to ticking every second, and its’ effect should be halved.
sig of midnight should give 25% boon duration, more useful and tempting that way, and active effect should convert conditions into boons.
signet of domination can be good with para sigils for 4s stun, but srsly, 45 second cooldown is nasty… should be 30 or 35. I personally think it should provide power as passive, since power is in the domination trait tree and you get the idea.
sig of illusions the passive and active effect relate in no way, and this is utterly useless because its a mix for two different sorts of specs.
signet of inspiration is good idea, but other skills more convincing take the slot. Here’s some interesting ideas for it:
1) P: Double the duration of a random boon every 10 seconds A: (default)
2) P: +25% movement speed A: gain quickness for 5 seconds but unable to summon clones.
3) P: Convert a condition into a boon every 10 seconds. The duration is reset when converted. A: Cure all conditions.
4) P: Copies a random boon from your target every 10 seconds. A: Destroy all your foes boons and prevent them from gaining any for 5 seconds.
5) P: Transfer a random condition to your target every 10 seconds. Resets the duration. A: Convert 3-5 condis into boons.
Arcane Bastion [AB]
Elementalist Mesmer Ranger
Sea of Sorrows
Elementalist Mesmer Ranger
Sea of Sorrows
(edited by Henrik.7560)
Signet of Ether
Add a small constant life regeneration while keeping the maximum possible amount of regeneration. There is absolutely no point in not having a benefit at all when there are no Illusions around.
Now that you mention it, yeah. It would be a neat QoL buff in most situations.
sig of midnight should give 25% boon duration, more useful and tempting that way, and active effect should convert conditions into boons.
Agreed on the boon duration, but I can’t see the active happening without a significant nerf on the cooldown. Plus, this change would disencourage many players to pick Arcane Thievery, which is already not that popular.
Keep the suggestions coming, interesting stuff so far! Especially those for Signet of Illusions and Signet of Midnight, which seem to be kinda the hot topic concerning Signets.
I’d like to extend the thread topic a bit:
What do you guys think about the Signet-related traits?
- Signet Mastery
- Cleansing Inscriptions
- Blurred Inscriptions (especially in combination with Masterful Reflection)
I feel like the traits are great overall, and they’re spread in a way that makes sense imo, combining them is pretty easy. Especially Blurred Inscriptions + Masterful Reflection was always a combination I’d love to use, but the signets themselves are just too underperforming compared to other utilites (and now even Mantras). The only one I feel that could a small buff is Cleansing Inscriptions, probably because Signet cooldowns are so high. Is there any reasoning taking this without Signet Mastery?
It’s not worth being a Master trait on its own.
- Those two should get merged in my eyes – if the cooldowns stay like they are and only one condition affected.
- Add a new Signet related trait. Can’t think of a good one right now, but pretty sure there could be cool additions for Signet-Mesmer builds.
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
Agree with Domination Signet. Illusions… I like the idea of the active giving them a buff, perhaps 5 stacks of might and 5s swiftness on a 60/90s cooldown?
Maybe my post regarding the Signet of Illusions was a bit misleading. I was thinking about the passive effect granting x seconds of Distortion to Illusions when shattering them. This would be in line with Triumphant Distortion and also fits the active of the Signet.
As for Signet of Midnight, I’d suggest 10-20% condition duration reduction on the passive, with the 5s blind plus a 10s Power Block-style cooldown increase on one target to give it an offensive angle as well as the defensive. That would need something closer to 60s cooldown on the signet though.
I like the idea of having a Power Block-ish effect on an utility skill. But considering that the Signet of Midnight already functions as a stunbreaker it might just be too much.
signet of inspiration is good idea, but other skills more convincing take the slot. Here’s some interesting ideas for it: …
Why on earth would you change the active of the Signet of Inspiration? It is one of the more unique skills in the game and I would hate if it was removed.
What do you guys think about the Signet-related traits?
- Signet Mastery
- Cleansing Inscriptions
- Blurred Inscriptions (especially in combination with Masterful Reflection)
As I mentioned early I think that the traits are okay overall. However, they only pay of in Signet focussed builds which requires Signets to work well with each other. Therefore, that is the thing I want to see change in the first place.
When it comes to the traits itself, I would enjoy the following adjustments:
Cleansing Inscriptions
Make it cleanse 1 condition on yourself and nearby allies. This trait is in a supportive traitline. Why not actually provide support with it? I don’t think it could be buffed in a different way since increasing the number of cleansed conditions would be too powerful.
Blurred Inscriptions
I would like to see the duration of Distortion beeing increased to 2s for several reasons. First, most Signets have a cast time of ~1s. This means you have to precast the Signet if you want to actively negate incomming damage. Even with a lot of experience the 1s of Distortion is rather short and makes it hard to time the effect. Second, this could give Mesmers a defensive option outside of stealth. This is something I’d really want to see implemented. It would help us in situations were neither stealth nor Illusions can compensate for our defensive insuffiencies.
Empowering Signets
Change Empowering Mantras into Empowering Signets. When looking at the overall distributions of traits it becomes obivous that there is no real Signet-traitline. After this change Domination would be the primary traitline to go for with Signets and finally Mantra traits would be less scattered. The nature of granting a passive bonus does fit Signets way better than Mantras anyway.
The signet traits have massive problems, but it’s not immediately evident.
Signet Mastery
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Mental Torment: Required for shatter builds focusing on burst
- Halting Strike: Required for interrupt builds that like doing damage
- Empowered Illusions: Required for phantasm builds that like doing damage
- Crippling dissipation: Required for clone-death builds that like some modicum of control
There’s almost no situation where you’re able to give up one of those traits for signet mastery.
Blurred Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Deceptive Evasion
…I think I’ve said enough.
Cleansing Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Bountiful Interruption: A very important trait for interrupt builds to maintain damage
- Chaotic Dampening: Very important trait for builds that take staff, reducing cooldowns of a lot of very strong skills
Overall, this trait is the one most accessible…and it’s pretty inaccessible.
All 3 of these traits share spots with other very powerful and/or needed traits. This means that in order to have a spot for the signet trait, you’re forced to burn more traits into that line and forego either a master trait, or in 2/3 cases a grandmaster trait. There’s not a whole lot wrong with the traits themselves, other than them being potentially on the weak side, but the main issue is that they’re simply in spots that make it impossible to take them.
Don’t forget that Signet of Midnight is a instant-cast Stun Break with an Unblockable AoE 5-target Blind. You can pair it well with Blurred Inscriptions, if you wish to try doing something with that.
I did not forget that – however, do we really need another stunbreak utility? We have plenty of options that are way more flexible. The blind is still meh, and the blurred inscriptions point applies to all signets.
I said this in another thread at some point, but I’ll say it again here.
Signet of midnight makes no sense. It’s a pbaoe instant blind. It’s also a stunbreak. If paired with the trait, it’s also an invuln.
So, if you blind your target, you don’t need the stunbreak. If you need the stunbreak, it means you already got hit, the blind isn’t super useful. If it’s an invuln, then you don’t need the blind OR the stunbreak.
Yes, there are situations where multiples of its uses can be helpful. However, that doesn’t make it any more cohesive in these non-niche situations.
Except for the fact that it prevents two attacks whether it is traited or not. The stun break allows you to move and avoid the first attack the blind allow you to avoid the second. Blind is not removed when you attack a distorted person, so when traited it also prevents two attacks. This is two attacks from five people. Pretty good in my eyes.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Bumping, because I’ve been kittening owning on my Malignant Inscriptions build, and I think Signets do not get enough play…
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
The signet traits have massive problems, but it’s not immediately evident.
Signet Mastery
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Mental Torment: Required for shatter builds focusing on burst
- Halting Strike: Required for interrupt builds that like doing damage
- Empowered Illusions: Required for phantasm builds that like doing damage
- Crippling dissipation: Required for clone-death builds that like some modicum of control
There’s almost no situation where you’re able to give up one of those traits for signet mastery.
Blurred Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Deceptive Evasion
…I think I’ve said enough.Cleansing Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Bountiful Interruption: A very important trait for interrupt builds to maintain damage
- Chaotic Dampening: Very important trait for builds that take staff, reducing cooldowns of a lot of very strong skills
Overall, this trait is the one most accessible…and it’s pretty inaccessible.
All 3 of these traits share spots with other very powerful and/or needed traits. This means that in order to have a spot for the signet trait, you’re forced to burn more traits into that line and forego either a master trait, or in 2/3 cases a grandmaster trait. There’s not a whole lot wrong with the traits themselves, other than them being potentially on the weak side, but the main issue is that they’re simply in spots that make it impossible to take them.
I do think that signets need rework on their passives and actives, But I do not agree that choosing traits for signets are more lets say unimportant than other traits. There is a lot of situation where I am able other traits for their spot. My condi interrupt signet build chooses signet mastery, blurred inscriptions over those traits.
My only complain would be another class gets might on signet use on signet mastery trait, we should too.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
As other stated: It is pretty inconsistent. Why the additional health while the active encourages shattering illusions?
This is something I never quite understood, to me this seems perfectly consistent.
My biggest problem as a shatter mesmer in fights is my illusions not arriving alive to blow themselves up when I have to be anywhere but melee range.
This signet makes my illusions more likely to get there (curiously it worked better before they fixed it :P ), and gives me an emergency shatter recharge on top of that.
It seems… ok to me? Bit underpowered for the long CD, but conceptually it works fine, all about shatter specs.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Oh wait, how did I miss another ridiculous post by Fay bashing signets?! lawl
The signet traits have massive problems, but it’s not immediately evident.
Signet Mastery
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Mental Torment: Required for shatter builds focusing on burst
- Halting Strike: Required for interrupt builds that like doing damage
- Empowered Illusions: Required for phantasm builds that like doing damage
- Crippling dissipation: Required for clone-death builds that like some modicum of control
There’s almost no situation where you’re able to give up one of those traits for signet mastery.
Blurred Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Deceptive Evasion
…I think I’ve said enough.Cleansing Inscriptions
This trait shares a spot with the following traits:
- Bountiful Interruption: A very important trait for interrupt builds to maintain damage
- Chaotic Dampening: Very important trait for builds that take staff, reducing cooldowns of a lot of very strong skills
Overall, this trait is the one most accessible…and it’s pretty inaccessible.
All 3 of these traits share spots with other very powerful and/or needed traits. This means that in order to have a spot for the signet trait, you’re forced to burn more traits into that line and forego either a master trait, or in 2/3 cases a grandmaster trait. There’s not a whole lot wrong with the traits themselves, other than them being potentially on the weak side, but the main issue is that they’re simply in spots that make it impossible to take them.
You’re right: the issue with signet traits in and of themselves is not immediately evident. There is pretty stiff competition in each of those spots. However your issue in judging them is evident: it’s not apparent that you recognize these traits are designed for signet builds “almost” exclusively.
Signet Mastery
Each of those builds you specified is a niche build. So of COURSE you’d take those other traits if you’re running one of those builds. Running an interrupt/shatter build means you wouldn’t be using barely any signets anyway outside of S.Domination.
Blurred Inscriptions
Every trait standing next to DE looks utterly useless. However, this says more about how us Mesmer view DE as a crutch than how less useful the other traits are. Besides, if you’re running 3 or more traits (what I’d consider running on the side of being a signet build) then you’re most likely going 6 points into Dueling where no one uses the gm traits.
Cleansing Inscriptions
This is actually a pretty weak trait. I’d like to see it buffed where it cleanses a single condition from AOE teammates OR change it to something like “Chaotic Inscriptions” where it cleanses one condi on you and adds AOE conditions. It’d be similar to Debilitating Dissipation. Or it could cause a single condi like Weakness. That’d be cool. This would tie it in better with the Chaos line.
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Overall, the key to these traits is that if you’re running 3 or more signets, it then becomes more valuable to take them. Additionally, traiting exclusively for those 3 spots still gives you 4 points to spend. It makes sense to typically go into Domination/Dueling where the next tiers have less competition for good traits.
The best thing about my Malignant Inscriptions and dps Signet builds is that it’s technically a hybrid version of Clone death / Phantasm builds. I honestly believe they represent a lot of what the Mesmer class is: a dual sense of chaos and tranquility. Passive and active. Offensive and defensive. I love it and think more people should try them out! <3
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
I have been running a signet/phantasm build with blurred inscriptions and triumphant distortion for pve lately. I have tried a significant number of builds involving phantasms and zerk gear and I think I like this one the best so far. I really dislike mantras and I sub in clone/glamors as necessary.
Here’s my take on the signets:
- Signet of the Ether (35s CD)
- Passive: Gain Health every few seconds, based on the number of active illusions you control.
- Active: Heal yourself and refresh all phantasm skill recharges.
I generally like this one with the exception of zero contribution when all illusions get smashed. Even when that happens, the active allows me to reset all phantasm skill cool downs immediately, heal for a decent amount, with the side bonus of triggering 1s of distortion due to blurred inscriptions. Pretty good in my opinion.
- Signet of Inspiration (45s CD)
- Passive: Grants a random boon every ten seconds.
- Active: Copy all of your boons to nearby allies.
Please take the junk boons off of this and give it passive 25% run speed. Please stop holding this utility back for flavor reasons. Yes, I like the randomization of boons this gives, but I do not like the useless boons it gives with their useless durations. I mean seriously, 3 seconds of protection, 1 stack of might, 5 seconds of retaliation, 5 seconds of fury. Those boons are just over-budgeting this utility and unnecessarily diluting its effectiveness. Either remove these space wasters or make them worthwhile via duration and/or intensity. You could even have it generate 3 boons at a time versus one at a time…that would make it more likely to get something decent/appropriate when needed. Take swiftness off of this as a boon and make it passive 25%.
- Signet of Domination (45s CD)
- Passive: Improved condition damage.
- Active: Stun your foe (3s).
I never use this one. I’d say this is more of a pvp/wvw utility. Seems decent enough for those purposes. Active CD seems a bit longish though.
- Signet of Illusions (90s CD)
- Passive: Grants more health to your illusions.
- Active: Recharge your shatter skills.
This is one I generally stay away from. The additional illusion health is decent, but not really necessary for my build as I generate phantasms pretty quickly anyway with Signet of Ether’s help + traits. I do agree…the active and passive contradict each other pretty bad. The CD is terrible as well. I generally don’t use this one, as I rarely shatter, the CD is too long, it has a cast time…negating the benefits of blurred inscriptions, and There are many utilities much more useful.
- Signet of Midnight (30s CD)
- Passive: Improves boon duration (10%).
- Active: Blind nearby foes (5s).
I actually like this one a lot for my build. First and foremost, it is instant cast + low CD, which means it works perfectly with blurred inscriptions. Second, it is a stun break, which makes the difference between knocked down temporarily and dead as a glassy build. Third, the blind definitely doesn’t hurt…just in case something is about to get me when I’m low health and my 1s of distortion has just ended. Yes, the 10% boon duration is trash, but the active is exactly what my build needs.
My main gripe with signets is that they have cast times when paired with blurred inscriptions. Defeats the point of the 1 second distortion frame when you have to wait for a cast to complete before its active. I guess this is more about the blurred inscriptions trait, then it is about signets, but I think the combination should make all signets instant cast and give 2 seconds of distortion…enough to compensate for lag and such.
(edited by ODB.6891)
sig of ether should be reduced to ticking every second, and its’ effect should be halved.
Any reason why you say this?
The reasoning for reducing the ticking to every second is because it’s such a huge reliance that having more ticks reducing the strain of needing 3 illusions up at all times (since most people aren’t counting until they get the heal).
The heal itself is roughly the same as Warrior Healing Signet, assuming the Mesmer has 3 Illusions out. Getting this halved without any change to the cooldown or active skill will effectively turn this skill into a heal with a utility into a utility with a heal. Then again it’s being ran as a utility with a heal, so I guess there’s really no problem (other than running dungeons with a pseudo-heal skill).
Also, Warrior Healing Signet is not the best heal a Warrior has. Neither is Signet of the Ether the best heal a Mesmer has. This is talking purely healing amounts. If we consider actives/playstyles, then there’s a whole discussion to be had but I’m tired.
Esplen makes a great point. Signet Heal does have its uses though. It shouldn’t heal as much as Ether Fest, because it has utilities outside of just healing such as extra dps via refreshing phantasm CD as well as its passive healing.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
The reasoning for reducing the ticking to every second is because it’s such a huge reliance that having more ticks reducing the strain of needing 3 illusions up at all times (since most people aren’t counting until they get the heal).
The heal itself is roughly the same as Warrior Healing Signet, assuming the Mesmer has 3 Illusions out. Getting this halved without any change to the cooldown or active skill will effectively turn this skill into a heal with a utility into a utility with a heal.
Ah, I think what he meant was -50% per tick but 3 times as often.
As in, +50% total healing output, assuming your illusions are constantly out.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
A particular Mesmer I was playing with last night made some shady comments about Signets last night. I thought I’d use my necromancy skills to revive this thread and remind people how potentially effective they can be when traited for.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
I think one thing that could really open up some fun builds and diversity would be either a) making Deceptive Evasion a 2-point trait or b) implement a class mechanic where when a mesmer is in combat and has 100 endurance, dodging creates a clone.
A lot of builds that are power based, whether shatter, lockdown, something else fun that you’ve made, are SUPER reliant on DE. I think moving that trait down, or making it a class mechanic (so that people at least don’t need to wait until level 60 for it), would open up build diversity, and allow people to use many different utilities.
I would argue that simply moving de to a new slot solves nothing.
Make it a minor in inspirational and now all builds will carry inspiration of two and then put two into dueling for the crit chances.
If you want to open diversity it just needs to become a generic thing Mesmers can do. If you nerf it to only on full endurance you cripple the entire class and a net is not good with compensating for nerfs with buffs
~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet