Nerf Confounding Suggestions
It’s only really strong with mantra of distraction. Normally you only have F3 daze which already has a long cd. Not to mention, F3 is only reliable with self-shatter.
However, mantra of distraction is only taken by pure interruption builds at the cost of either portal or decoy which is quite a bit of investment.
Your first paragraph is opinionated. CS is powerful with any daze.
OMG LOL. Of course, everything I posted is MY OWN OPINION. Do I have to add IMO in front of every paragraph I post? Same thing with everyone’s post, it is THEIR opinion.
And plz learn to put things into context and stop playing word games. Surely I know stun is strong on any class any skill….
Last but not least, you are the most annoying poster in this subforum. And surely that is just my opinion.
Hate makes me stronger.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
The problem is mantras, really.
They’re either really strong in some people’s eyes because of their instant nature, or they’re so weak in their active effect that they’re not worth the channeling.
Quite frankly I just wish they’d retool the mantras or replace them with hexes as a new category.
Confounding Suggestions isn’t really that strong when used with other mesmer CC’s that have cast/animation times.
The problem then is that mantra of distraction is kinda weak by itself when it doesn’t have CS to prop it up.
The problem is mantras, really.
They’re either really strong in some people’s eyes because of their instant nature, or they’re so weak in their active effect that they’re not worth the channeling.
Quite frankly I just wish they’d retool the mantras or replace them with hexes as a new category.
Confounding Suggestions isn’t really that strong when used with other mesmer CC’s that have cast/animation times.
The problem then is that mantra of distraction is kinda weak by itself when it doesn’t have CS to prop it up.
I see what you’re saying. Nerf CS, remove the stun on daze, and make it a flat +50% daze/stun duration. Then buff MoD by making it a 1s stun. All problems solved :p
Somebody will still whine that it’s an instant cast stun and they ate a 10k mindwrack. Duelist classes are always the most unpopular classes.
Look at guardians. The backbone of any team for most of the game, absurdly strong in all formats, but because it’s not killing people in 1v1 often, nobody ever called for guardian nerfs.
That’s just how the balancing will go until devs draw the line in the sand and tell people “No, this game is balanced around team fights, don’t bother with 1v1 complaints.”
And the truth is in an evaluation of a mesmer’s potential in team fights, CS MoD was perfectly fine and continues to be.
Kinda funny people complain about this trait instead of mater fencer.
it’s face roll vs zerker players with low skill level. It’s not really oped at all. I actually started to save my dazes for defense lately rather than using it to land shatter. A decent player knows a shatter is inc once they get mantra stuned and will pop a breaker and dodge so the stun really becomes a tell for your opponents.
You can time the stun with your burst so that they can’t stunbreak it in time 99.999999% of the time unless you have a teleport like blink.
That WAS true before they nerfed mirror blade. You can cast mirrior blade and then stun blink and shatter. But ever since they nerfed mirror blade damage by nearly a 1/3 it’s no longer possiable to shatter burst someone 100-0 anymore. The shatter damage is never instant. You have to cast MB, hit stun, blink and shatter. while blink and shatter are both insta you still need to wait for blink to happen before hit shatter which is enough time to stun break and dodge.
Yeah, it depends on what class your fighting and what build depending on the one shot. But it’s still a lot of damage that has very little counterplay. And I’m a bit confused by what your saying. While blink and shatter are both insta you still wait for blink to happen? When it’s instant? Think you meant to say mirror blade. Which is true butttt you can time it so they don’t have time to stun break. Simply start casting GS 2, before they have time to react and dodge pop CS and by that time it’s normerly too late.
EDIT: this got onto a second page?
“Confounding Suggestions isn’t really that strong when used with other mesmer CC’s that have cast/animation times.
The problem then is that mantra of distraction is kinda weak by itself when it doesn’t have CS to prop it up."
Agreed.
“That’s just how the balancing will go until devs draw the line in the sand and tell people “No, this game is balanced around team fights, don’t bother with 1v1 complaints.”
And the truth is in an evaluation of a mesmer’s potential in team fights, CS MoD was perfectly fine and continues to be."
True. But seeing as MoD isn’t taken in PvP really why not balance it around where it is taken then? Either way wouldn’t it be better to somehow buff MoD and add more counterplay to CS? That way MoD might have a chance over decoy and you don’t have to worry about no counterplay to CS. Since there isn’t really a way to add more counterplay to CS without nerfing it the buff to MoD would help out the nerf?
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
it’s face roll vs zerker players with low skill level. It’s not really oped at all. I actually started to save my dazes for defense lately rather than using it to land shatter. A decent player knows a shatter is inc once they get mantra stuned and will pop a breaker and dodge so the stun really becomes a tell for your opponents.
You can time the stun with your burst so that they can’t stunbreak it in time 99.999999% of the time unless you have a teleport like blink.
That WAS true before they nerfed mirror blade. You can cast mirrior blade and then stun blink and shatter. But ever since they nerfed mirror blade damage by nearly a 1/3 it’s no longer possiable to shatter burst someone 100-0 anymore. The shatter damage is never instant. You have to cast MB, hit stun, blink and shatter. while blink and shatter are both insta you still need to wait for blink to happen before hit shatter which is enough time to stun break and dodge.
Yeah, it depends on what class your fighting and what build depending on the one shot. But it’s still a lot of damage that has very little counterplay. And I’m a bit confused by what your saying. While blink and shatter are both insta you still wait for blink to happen? When it’s instant? Think you meant to say mirror blade. Which is true butttt you can time it so they don’t have time to stun break. Simply start casting GS 2, before they have time to react and dodge pop CS and by that time it’s normerly too late.
You want to shatter while you are on top of the player because you want to make sure you shatter yourself for more damage. While blink casting is instant the blink itself is not really instant. The sequence goes like this: You see target, Cast gs2, While gs2 is in air daze stun the target, blink there and shatter + gs 3 . If you use a macro you can maybe pull it off as a insta but in real life that is awful a lot of keys to press where 2 of them are ground targeted. So in real life there is usually time to react when you are stuned. Not a large window but enough never the less, I do it on my mesmer all the time both landing and try to avoid bursts .
it’s face roll vs zerker players with low skill level. It’s not really oped at all. I actually started to save my dazes for defense lately rather than using it to land shatter. A decent player knows a shatter is inc once they get mantra stuned and will pop a breaker and dodge so the stun really becomes a tell for your opponents.
You can time the stun with your burst so that they can’t stunbreak it in time 99.999999% of the time unless you have a teleport like blink.
That WAS true before they nerfed mirror blade. You can cast mirrior blade and then stun blink and shatter. But ever since they nerfed mirror blade damage by nearly a 1/3 it’s no longer possiable to shatter burst someone 100-0 anymore. The shatter damage is never instant. You have to cast MB, hit stun, blink and shatter. while blink and shatter are both insta you still need to wait for blink to happen before hit shatter which is enough time to stun break and dodge.
Yeah, it depends on what class your fighting and what build depending on the one shot. But it’s still a lot of damage that has very little counterplay. And I’m a bit confused by what your saying. While blink and shatter are both insta you still wait for blink to happen? When it’s instant? Think you meant to say mirror blade. Which is true butttt you can time it so they don’t have time to stun break. Simply start casting GS 2, before they have time to react and dodge pop CS and by that time it’s normerly too late.
You want to shatter while you are on top of the player because you want to make sure you shatter yourself for more damage. While blink casting is instant the blink itself is not really instant. The sequence goes like this: You see target, Cast gs2, While gs2 is in air daze stun the target, blink there and shatter + gs 3 . If you use a macro you can maybe pull it off as a insta but in real life that is awful a lot of keys to press where 2 of them are ground targeted. So in real life there is usually time to react when you are stuned. Not a large window but enough never the less, I do it on my mesmer all the time both landing and try to avoid bursts .
Landing two AoEs isn’t really that hard, especially because you don’t even necessarily need greatsword 3. And you don’t always need to blink in. As long as you are in melee range or somewhat close to melee range your good. Even if not you can still get make the guy use a stunbreak and catch him 5-10 seconds later with the second charge.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
it’s face roll vs zerker players with low skill level. It’s not really oped at all. I actually started to save my dazes for defense lately rather than using it to land shatter. A decent player knows a shatter is inc once they get mantra stuned and will pop a breaker and dodge so the stun really becomes a tell for your opponents.
You can time the stun with your burst so that they can’t stunbreak it in time 99.999999% of the time unless you have a teleport like blink.
That WAS true before they nerfed mirror blade. You can cast mirrior blade and then stun blink and shatter. But ever since they nerfed mirror blade damage by nearly a 1/3 it’s no longer possiable to shatter burst someone 100-0 anymore. The shatter damage is never instant. You have to cast MB, hit stun, blink and shatter. while blink and shatter are both insta you still need to wait for blink to happen before hit shatter which is enough time to stun break and dodge.
Yeah, it depends on what class your fighting and what build depending on the one shot. But it’s still a lot of damage that has very little counterplay. And I’m a bit confused by what your saying. While blink and shatter are both insta you still wait for blink to happen? When it’s instant? Think you meant to say mirror blade. Which is true butttt you can time it so they don’t have time to stun break. Simply start casting GS 2, before they have time to react and dodge pop CS and by that time it’s normerly too late.
You want to shatter while you are on top of the player because you want to make sure you shatter yourself for more damage. While blink casting is instant the blink itself is not really instant. The sequence goes like this: You see target, Cast gs2, While gs2 is in air daze stun the target, blink there and shatter + gs 3 . If you use a macro you can maybe pull it off as a insta but in real life that is awful a lot of keys to press where 2 of them are ground targeted. So in real life there is usually time to react when you are stuned. Not a large window but enough never the less, I do it on my mesmer all the time both landing and try to avoid bursts .
Landing two AoEs isn’t really that hard, especially because you don’t even necessarily need greatsword 3. And you don’t always need to blink in. As long as you are in melee range or somewhat close to melee range your good. Even if not you can still get make the guy use a stunbreak and catch him 5-10 seconds later with the second charge.
^ Golems in the mists can confirm.
;D
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”
I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
Oh how the ignorance continues to shine.
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”
I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.
Not really. You take MoD to get some self peeling breathing room on classes like thief with a guaranteed stun, and because power block doesn’t remotely affect most of their crap, why not take mental anguish which adds another whopping 15% bonus to mindwrack on stunned targets and as a trait is more universal?
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”
I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.
Let me reiterate why it’s dumb: It will give us two traits which do the same thing under the same conditions. That is not ok. It will not, under any circumstance, be ok. You cannot overlap the functionality of two traits that much. Because that is just stupid, I don’t want to spend the time listing off all the reasons why having two traits which do the same kitten thing is dumb.
Now, anything except making it “on-interrupt” for CS? Go for it, I don’t care.
CI cannot do the same thing as CS. This does not work for the profession, the balance, or the game. I trust the devs to already understand that already. So I won’t waste any more time on this, I’m just letting you know, it will not happen because it is a bad idea, straight up.
(edited by Dondagora.9645)
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”
I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.
Not really. You take MoD to get some self peeling breathing room on classes like thief with a guaranteed stun, and because power block doesn’t remotely affect most of their crap, why not take mental anguish which adds another whopping 15% bonus to mindwrack on stunned targets and as a trait is more universal?
+15% bonusbonus damage, and +30% damage vs inactivity.
Anyway I made a short vid doing bursts on golem with PB and MR, using the exact same setup otherwise.
Mental Anguish front loads the burst damage, Power Block needs that interrupt on burst to compare. PB also gives you more outgoing damage over time if you land all your interrupts.
Of course if you can down your opponent in one, you don’t need to keep interrupting.
So, for an interrupt build, sure take all your interrupt traits. For a lockdown build, Mental Anguish is sound, simple, straight forward pick.
This is simple in my book, if your not a Mesmer player than you dont belong here making complaints. Get lost. Go bug an ele or something.
(edited by atlrising.5134)
This is simple in my book, if your not a Mesmer player than you dont belong here making complaints. Get lost. Go bug an ele or something.
I can testify that FrenchFry is a mesmer player, and a decent duelist in his own right.
While he makes some pretty specious claims and arguments at times, he is at the very least a skilled player. You can’t dismiss him on those grounds :P
For testimonials, I suggest you ask Chaos Archangel how his last set of duels with the Fry ended up :P
You, meanwhile, hadn’t made a single post on the mesmer forums (almost entirely in the PvP forums) until that sudden “let’s rally the mesmer community!” post you made randomly. Since then, while I’ve seen you chime in a few places, none of your posts have been constructively contributing to the concepts of the class. Are you sure you’re a mesmer player, and not just a troll pretending to be?
PU was not anoth of a nerf.. you must Nerf CS as well. Then the rest… :S lol
This is simple in my book, if your not a Mesmer player than you dont belong here making complaints. Get lost. Go bug an ele or something.
I can testify that FrenchFry is a mesmer player, and a decent duelist in his own right.
While he makes some pretty specious claims and arguments at times, he is at the very least a skilled player. You can’t dismiss him on those grounds :P
For testimonials, I suggest you ask Chaos Archangel how his last set of duels with the Fry ended up :P
You, meanwhile, hadn’t made a single post on the mesmer forums (almost entirely in the PvP forums) until that sudden “let’s rally the mesmer community!” post you made randomly. Since then, while I’ve seen you chime in a few places, none of your posts have been constructively contributing to the concepts of the class. Are you sure you’re a mesmer player, and not just a troll pretending to be?
Pretty sure I play mesmer…yup its in my character list. Getting pretty close to having it there for just under two years too. Yup 340 days. I spend most of my time in PvP/PvE where I have leveled up my Mesmer, This is why you see most of my posts in pvp. Go troll someone else son.
Go troll someone else son.
Que? You accused another forumite, one who has been contributing (if frustratingly so) heavily to the forums, actually discussing the ins and outs of the class, of not actually playing mesmer.
Meanwhile, it doesn’t appear that any of your posts are constructive, so I have absolutely zero indication that you actually think about the class, or play it.
Turnabout is fair play, “troll”.
Or to put it another way, “people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”.
The issue with this thread is that is resides on the belief that guaranteeing the greatsword burst is OP. A burst which already cannot kill heavies and can easily be negated through dodge when one uses dazes over stun.
Your suggestion places an unfair burden on mesmer vs any other class that uses a hard cc to land a burst.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
So, I was trying to avoid this thread mostly because I didn’t want to fall into another seven-year argument with Frenchfry. But if I may throw in my opinion…
- Frenchfry is a good player. Matter of fact, he’s one of the better players I’ve faced. (albiet, Frenchfry, you’re madly spammy on your GS auto, you cancel it before all three hits even connect. =P) And is definitely experienced with the class.
- Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.
- Making the trait on-interrupt is silly and unnecessary. Especially “when you interrupt with a daze” we only have two reliable daze sources.
- All of this sass and back-sass is highly unnecessary.
Server: Anvil Rock [NA] / Aeoldyn [OMFG]
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
…
*Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.
…
I’m sorry Chaos, but I have to disagree with this. MoD has barely changed since release. The only real buff it has received as when it became AOE effect. And even then, it really didn’t see much play time. And never was an issue.
ONLY when CS became a 100% daze to stun, are players complaining about MoD. So to me, if anything should be nerfed it should be CS.
ONLY when CS became a 100% daze to stun, are players complaining about MoD. So to me, if anything should be nerfed it should be CS.
CS came in at the same time as the 7 interrupt traits. You can blame CS, but Mesmer has so much interrupt support generally that interrupt builds are every bit as strong as lockdown builds.
Don’t need CS to interrupt, though.
I think we can agree that CS even with MoD is not that OP anymore. I would have liked to see it nerfed some time ago, but a-net nerfed everything else instead (the mantra recharge “fix”, harmonious mantra, mirror blade, PU) so now mesmer is fine and not OP in any ways.
Now the only thing I would like to ask is if they could keep chronomancer healthy. I hear the QQ everywhere, so I hope a-net will adjust chronomancer properly without slaughtering build diversity by nerfing in the wrong places.
…
*Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.
…
I’m sorry Chaos, but I have to disagree with this. MoD has barely changed since release. The only real buff it has received as when it became AOE effect. And even then, it really didn’t see much play time. And never was an issue.
ONLY when CS became a 100% daze to stun, are players complaining about MoD. So to me, if anything should be nerfed it should be CS.
Yeah, and there’s the rub..
Mantra of Distraction shouldn’t be nerfed just because of CS. CS shouldn’t be nerfed just because of Mantra of Distraction.
… Though, honestly, I don’t think either of them need to be nerfed. -_- Nerf greatsword.
Wait.. lets not do that either.
Nerf these kinds of threads.
There’s enough tears about Mesmers already without Mesmer-mains needing to complain. How about we just.. enjoy what we have right now? Its bad enough Chronomancer is going to see nerfs without abusing core Mes.
Server: Anvil Rock [NA] / Aeoldyn [OMFG]
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
…
*Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.
…
I’m sorry Chaos, but I have to disagree with this. MoD has barely changed since release. The only real buff it has received as when it became AOE effect. And even then, it really didn’t see much play time. And never was an issue.
ONLY when CS became a 100% daze to stun, are players complaining about MoD. So to me, if anything should be nerfed it should be CS.
Yeah, and there’s the rub..
Mantra of Distraction shouldn’t be nerfed just because of CS. CS shouldn’t be nerfed just because of Mantra of Distraction.
… Though, honestly, I don’t think either of them need to be nerfed. -_- Nerf greatsword.
Wait.. lets not do that either.
Nerf these kinds of threads.
There’s enough tears about Mesmers already without Mesmer-mains needing to complain. How about we just.. enjoy what we have right now? Its bad enough Chronomancer is going to see nerfs without abusing core Mes.
All of these Mesmer features are nicely balanced at the moment. There was almost universal thumbs up approval at the full list of changes we got.
Outside of PU and the background mantra cd/spam the only place the QQ is coming from is these nicely balanced features being used in professional hands. When was the last time you went into PvP and found yourself worried by the presence of that Mesmer on the enemy team? Probably back in those first couple of weeks post-trait-patch when mirror blade had an extra bounce (GS was nerfed Chaos, remember?). Now it’s back to being a chicken shoot. There needs to be two of your average daily mesmers in the same place at the same time just to keep it exciting.
You want to nerf something, nerf the pros. Chop off one of Chaos’ fingers or something. That should keep him happy.
I saw somewhere a suggestion to simply remove the trait and instead “your control effects remove an additional stability” which I think made sense.
I’d never willfully use a control effect to remove a stack of stability -_-u
I want the control effect. If I could remove the stability it’d be in some other way prior to using my CC.
That actually sounds pretty strong with Diversion. Fits Mesmer better than Revenant anyway IMO.
What’s the point of it, though? We already got Shattered Concentration. Yes, you could use the new CS without shatters but in the end it will most likely not add much to Mesmer gameplay.
While CS should be changed I still got to say: Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.
And don’t forget it ruining Mental Anguish, since you’d never take anything other than Power Block ever again.
If you take mantra of distraction your going to take power block anyway. With or without the change to CS.
“Making it on interrupt is dumb. There is absolutely no point in using it then especially since Chaotic Interruption exists.”
I fail to see how this is reason not to make the change. So if you go lockdown it isn’t as useful. The same goes for shatter and condition damage builds.
Not really. You take MoD to get some self peeling breathing room on classes like thief with a guaranteed stun, and because power block doesn’t remotely affect most of their crap, why not take mental anguish which adds another whopping 15% bonus to mindwrack on stunned targets and as a trait is more universal?
OK, yeah I take that back you might not always want to take PB with mantra of distraction tho i think it’s pretty good to do so. PB just doesn’t do damage, it gives weakness and increased CDs to an enemy. A lot of it probably depends on the enemies class/build. For example, I’d definitely take it vs a necro. And PB does actually effect a thief a good amount. Depending on the skill lvl of the enemy thief your wanting to save it to interrupt an enemies stealth with BP and SR. In addition since most thieves go direct damage managing to interrupt a skill of there’s gives weakness which will help.
@Dondagora
“Let me reiterate why it’s dumb: It will give us two traits which do the same thing under the same conditions.”
It doesn’t. One trait stuns on interrupt, one trait applies immob + random condition + 5 might + random boon on interrupt. The only overlap is stuns and immob + daze do sorta the same thing. The only other way I could see there being more counterplay to CS is making MoD have a cast time + animation but that would nerf MoD which I think is kinda stupid.
@Altrising
I am a mesmer main actually. Which I stated in my OP if you had bothered reading it. You can just go check my post history. I’ve commented the most in the mesmer forums compared to other class forums by far.
@jackums
"
How about we wait until HoT before we gut the Mesmer again. CS is one of the only things that prevents us from being hard-countered by Thieves, even in their current state (see; blown out of proportion by a vocal minority).
Scrapper, Reaper, and Herald are all going shake the meta up a ton. If the Mesmer is still “faceroll” then, the trait can be looked at, though Continuum Shift is going to be the new issue at that point and I imagine a lot of people will miss fighting the “old” Mesmer."
Yeah, seeing as HoT is so close there will probably be a lot of balancing going on around then. And I don’t think Continuum Shift is going to be a problem at all. It takes skill to know when to use and it has a lot of counterplay like destroying the rift. It’s actually my new favorite skill in the game ( sorry portal ).
@Vieux P
“PU was not anoth of a nerf.. you must Nerf CS as well. Then the rest… :S lol”
My idea behind my change to CS isn’t because I want CS destroyed, it’s because I want more counterplay and/or make it harder to use. If mesmer/chronomancer is suddenly underwhelming because of this change then they can buff some other mesmer trait.
@Altrising
“Go troll someone else son.”
Alphathe White isn’t the troll here. It’s in fact you. Why? You bothered to insult me without even having read the OP at all. You simply saw the title of the thread, saw the word nerf, and got mad because you like playing mesmer probs. I even said you can buff some other mesmer trait if mesmer/chronomancer is underwhelming all of a sudden because of the change to CS.
@Daniel
“The issue with this thread is that is resides on the belief that guaranteeing the greatsword burst is OP. A burst which already cannot kill heavies and can easily be negated through dodge when one uses dazes over stun.”
I think guaranteeing the GS burst is too strong when it takes very little skill from the mesmer play and there’s very little counterplay to it. Sure you can’t one shot heavies and whatnot. However, you have two charges from MoD. And you don’t have to one shot someone to still get in a pretty big burst. Which is why i think CS should get changed to on interrupt with a daze in addition to potentially a 10 second ICD. A potential buff to some other mesmer trait/skill/MoD could be due then.
@Chaos
“albiet, Frenchfry, you’re madly spammy on your GS auto, you cancel it before all three hits even connect. =P”
Shhhhhh. I haven’t been playing much these past two/three months! Both this and my jumping skills have plummeted ( horribly ). Must….practice……before….HoT.
“Confounding is fine. If you needa nerf something, nerf Mantra of Distraction. Confounding is only “OP” when combined with it, but in every other instance its fine… That doesn’t qualify a nerf.”
MoD is completely fine without CS. And CS is completely fine without MoD. It’s only when you take both CS and MoD. So you could either nerf MoD and add a cast time with animation and totally butcher MoD or you could nerf CS and have it still be useful. I went with the second option.
“All of this sass and back-sass is highly unnecessary.”
But funny to an extent.
@Silverkey
“I think we can agree that CS even with MoD is not that OP anymore.”
I think guaranteeing the GS burst is too strong when it takes very little skill from the mesmer play and there’s very little counterplay to it.
“I would have liked to see it nerfed some time ago, but a-net nerfed everything else instead (the mantra recharge “fix”, harmonious mantra, mirror blade, PU) so now mesmer is fine and not OP in any ways.”
Yeah that harmonious mantra nerf. Bleh. Makes no sense. But see the above.
@chaos again
“There’s enough tears about Mesmers already without Mesmer-mains needing to complain. How about we just.. enjoy what we have right now? Its bad enough Chronomancer is going to see nerfs without abusing core Mes.”
I even said you can buff some other mesmer thing! My idea is not to butcher mesmer!
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
While I don’t want to do thief-bashing because I know the class is not in its best state, how is CS + GS burst different from Basilisk Venom-Steal backstab burst?
While I don’t want to do thief-bashing because I know the class is not in its best state, how is CS + GS burst different from Basilisk Venom-Steal backstab burst?
This is a point I think he is missing. All of the burst classes have a way to guarantee their burst. Causing a burst means nothing without follow up. Lethal power should be a part of OPs post. However its not and instead we get a post about something being too easy to play.
Phantasm builds are super easy to play in pve, should they be nerfed?
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
EDIT: All classes have a way to guarantee there burst? May I ask how? And may I ask how much counterplay is there to that burst? And you do have follow up! A second charge if nothing else. And I’m not saying your guaranteed to win with CS. I’m saying you can gain a pretty big easy advantage that really doesn’t have much counter-play. And about your whole phantasm build in PvE being easy, that has nothing to do with the build it has to do with the content. If you fight some open world mobs then of course it’s gonna be easy but if your trying to solo mossman with a phantasm build at lvl 50 suddenly it’s not so easy. So for PvE the opponent matters way more than the build.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
Sorry bout that.
MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.
The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.
It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.
Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
I believe he means you cannot burst more than once every 5s (i.e. if you wait for your next mantra charge)
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
The mesmer burst cooldown is a 10 or 12s. So even if you could in principle burst every 5s with MoD, you have to wait at least 10 or 12s.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.
The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
See above point about steal being instant too.
The problem is the balance between low MMR and high MMR. There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD. So the problem is low MMR. In low MMR, people can get killed by about anything. A burn guardian, a power or MM necro, a shatter mesmer, a thief, a power warrior (hundred blade is OP!!), a LB ranger, a D/D ele (actually in high MMR too…), a flamethrower engi etc… There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game. This is how the game is designed, to allow beginners to feel powerful and not have a super high skill ceiling to reach before having fun.
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
Sorry bout that.
MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.
The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.
It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.
Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.
Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.
’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."
I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.
’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."
True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.
@Silverkey
“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”
I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.
“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.
The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."
Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.
“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”
Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).
’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."
But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
Sorry bout that.
MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.
The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.
It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.
Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.
Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.
’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."
I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.
’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."
True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.
@Silverkey
“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”
I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.
“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.
The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."
Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.
“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”
Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).
’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."
But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.
A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf.
To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.
Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.
Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?
If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.
@Silverkey
Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.
You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.
Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.
I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.
A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.
The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.
You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.
“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”
Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?
“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”
yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.
“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”
Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.
“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”
How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.
“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”
Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.
Sorry bout that.
MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.
The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.
It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.
Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.
Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.
’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."
I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.
’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."
True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.
@Silverkey
“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”
I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.
“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.
The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."
Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.
“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”
Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).
’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."
But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.
A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf.
To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.
Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.
Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?
’A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf."
You don’t need a phantasm to burst.
“To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.
"
More like around 1v1s in general. Both WvW and dueling arenas.
“Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.
Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?"
But BV does have a longer CD.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s
If you don’t need phantasm to burst than this isn’t a proper 1v1. And these aren’t proper 1v1 anyway if you are bringing wvw into this.
BV longer cd is the same as any venom on thief. Elite is just a slot. They had opportunity to deal with CS when they nerfed mirror blade they chose not to. Not only that they reduced the cooldown on MoD to be more fair.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
So its time for another summary.
Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-
- “I want more counterplay to CS”
Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-
- “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”
So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.
More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.
And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u
Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.
So its time for another summary.
Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-
- “I want more counterplay to CS”
Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-
- “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”
So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.
More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.
And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u
Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.
This.
My last use of the trait was to run away from a nike warrior and his posse. I knew without a doubt that if didn’t stun them they would gap close and kill me. Instead I got 1.25 seconds of swifted movement distance between us and a blink off. They got close enough that I fired a second charge, and by that time I had steath off cooldown and lived to tell the tale.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Someone surely must have already said this, but confounding suggestions got nerfed by the following already:
- Mirror Blade nerf
- Harmonious Mantras nerf
- Indirect air sigil nerf
- Mantra auto refresh bug fix
It’s not like it has no counterplay. At the very, very least, increase the ICD or remove the daze duration increase, but for heaven’s sake, the daze=stun trait functionality is fine.
Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)
Forum bug
/sick of this, fix pls
Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)
Someone surely must have already said this, but confounding suggestions got nerfed by the following already:
- Mirror Blade nerf
- Harmonious Mantras nerf
- Indirect air sigil nerf
- Mantra auto refresh bug fix
It’s not like it has no counterplay. At the very, very least, increase the ICD or remove the daze duration increase, but for heaven’s sake, the daze=stun trait functionality is fine.
Skcamow, please, you’re making WAY to much sense.
So its time for another summary.
Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-
- “I want more counterplay to CS”
Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-
- “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”
So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.
More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.
And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u
Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.
CS has very litte counterplay.
“So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything?”
It once took skill to land your burst. With CS this has dropped a lot. Either add some more counterplay or make CS somehow still take more skill. And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.
Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!
/s
/s