Nerf Confounding Suggestions

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

  • “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

  • “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Apparently not, they’ve already nerfed most of the options available for buffing, somehow I don’t think they’re going to turn around and lay on buffs again…

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

  • “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

  • “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Apparently not, they’ve already nerfed most of the options available for buffing, somehow I don’t think they’re going to turn around and lay on buffs again…

You honestly don’t think there’s a way to buff mesmer?

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

I think this video is a good example of why CS doesn’t need to be nerfed:

That, right there, is what people are complaining about. That’s pretty much the same whether or not you stun them.

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Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

  • “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

  • “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Apparently not, they’ve already nerfed most of the options available for buffing, somehow I don’t think they’re going to turn around and lay on buffs again…

You honestly don’t think there’s a way to buff mesmer?

Mesmers are used to a certain pattern: Weak→Buff→Double Nerf→/Repeat

So yeah, any ways they tried to buff mesmer were nearly immediately shot down with nerfs. There are ways to buff mesmer, sure, but it’d either be repeating the past or puts us in position once more to be nerfed back to oblivion because ANet doesn’t feel like doing some micro adjustments.

Also, once again, no “on-interrupt” for CS. Unsure if it has been explained again to you, but having two traits which do essentially the same thing isn’t ok.

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

I think this video is a good example of why CS doesn’t need to be nerfed:

That, right there, is what people are complaining about. That’s pretty much the same whether or not you stun them.

Exactly.

If that Golem had CS equipped with MoD, he could have shut that Mesmers burst down hard and counter burst.

Which is both very important, and very healthy for the game.

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

  • “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

  • “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

CS has very litte counterplay.

“So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything?”

It once took skill to land your burst. With CS this has dropped a lot. Either add some more counterplay or make CS somehow still take more skill. And I’m sure there is plenty of ways you could buff mesmer.

Thanks for affirming my summary.

Other things you’ve failed to answer is

  • Why you assert that lowering the skill level is bad (FOO strategies are a legit part of balance)
  • Why you assert MoD stuns dont require an adequate level of skill as is?
  • Why you continue to assert there isnt adequate ways to counter MoD stuns now when it’s already been stated there are numerous ways?

Basically you just keep stating the same things over and over again without any supporting substance, and no one appears to agree with you.

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

I think this video is a good example of why CS doesn’t need to be nerfed:

That, right there, is what people are complaining about. That’s pretty much the same whether or not you stun them.

Except you can dodge it unless they use CS……

@Ross Biddle

“Exactly.

If that Golem had CS equipped with MoD, he could have shut that Mesmers burst down hard and counter burst.

Which is both very important, and very healthy for the game."

And what counterplay would there have been? Now obviously it was a mesmer so you could f4 but what about other classes? And then repeat that 8-12 seconds later.

“Why you assert that lowering the skill level is bad (FOO strategies are a legit part of balance)”

Yes, I understand some guys like to feel big and strong ( even when there not ), but that doesn’t mean there can’t be counterplay to that. Which leads us to the next thing….

’Why you continue to assert there isnt adequate ways to counter MoD stuns now when it’s already been stated there are numerous ways?"

You mentioned a whole bunch of stuff earlier in the thread. Basically it comes down to: can you maintain 100% stability uptime even with the mesmer stripping stability? Yes? Then that’s how you counter it. If not, GL predicting it when it can happen any time. It’s not like thief steal where you can just dodge whenever there’s a decent gap between you and him. So why not make it on interrupt so now you cancel cast your skills to add some counterplay? Because then lockdown gets nerfed? I even said you can buff some other mesmer thing.

“Why you assert MoD stuns dont require an adequate level of skill as is?”

Are you seriously trying to say pressing your stun button when your about to burst is hard? Or anywhere close to hard?

EDIT: I feel like this is repeating loop. Stabiltiy! GL on 100% uptime especially with mesmer boon stripping with shatter. But blinds! He can remove that pretty easy especially with GS. But dodge! Gl predicting it when it can happen anytime nor is it like steal. But then it comes close to what CI is! No, CI applies immob + one random condition + 5 might + one random boon. But but but! Then you can…. apply stability! Blinds!

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Ok, this is really bugging me. I’ve gone over this before, but obviously I didn’t do it in simple enough language for it to stick.

Why making CS an interrupt trait is a bad idea, now with shorter words

CS does a stun.

CI does an immobilize.

A stun is a cc and an immob.

CI does an immob from a cc.

CI does a cc and an immob.

If CS was on interrupt, CS would do a stun and a cc.

A stun and a cc is the same as a cc and an immob.

CS and CI would do the same thing.

Doing the same thing is bad.

Bad things should not be done.

Making CS on interrupt is bad, and so it should not be done.

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Posted by: skcamow.3527

skcamow.3527

CS and CI would do the same thing.

Doing the same thing is bad.

This has been stated and reiterated numerous times in this thread but OP doesn’t appear (or is unwilling) to see the logic.

Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

I don’t like confounding suggestions (it is actually the main reason i don’t play anymore), but i do not want another ICD raise and neither do i think we need yet another interrupt trait. Honestly, i would very much prefer if the trait was just re-imagined completely. An increased ICD would simply make the trait just as skill-less but with a slightly longer wait.

Also, do NOT make it 50% chance again, RNG hard CC is absolutely ridiculously bad for the game.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Ok, this is really bugging me. I’ve gone over this before, but obviously I didn’t do it in simple enough language for it to stick.

Why making CS an interrupt trait is a bad idea, now with shorter words

CS does a stun.

CI does an immobilize.

A stun is a cc and an immob.

CI does an immob from a cc.

CI does a cc and an immob.

If CS was on interrupt, CS would do a stun and a cc.

A stun and a cc is the same as a cc and an immob.

CS and CI would do the same thing.

Doing the same thing is bad.

Bad things should not be done.

Making CS on interrupt is bad, and so it should not be done.

Yes they are pretty close but CI also does other stuff too. Anyway Quadox also has a good suggestion. We could just totally change the trait. That’s another way to do it and actually not a bad idea. Might make the other traits there actually have some use.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

Yes they are pretty close but CI also does other stuff too. Anyway Quadox also has a good suggestion. We could just totally change the trait. That’s another way to do it and actually not a bad idea. Might make the other traits there actually have some use.

So, you’re saying that not only is CI essentially the same (but with no icd) as your proposed CS, but it’s strictly better because CI does other stuff too?

Alternatively, swapping CS with Furious Interruption would also make the other traits there actually have some use, and it would make Furious Interruption have some use, and it would make CS have more of a cost of use, and it would remove the most significant source of boon rip mesmers have if they want CS, which would deal with your concern that stability is not a valid counter to CS (since mesmers would then only be able to boon rip with sword AA, which is hardly a skill-less exchange).

Speaking of that boon rip, why do you think boon rip is a good counter to stability for CS users? The only good source of boon rip we have for burst play is Shattered Concentration, but using a shatter to tear down stability before you hit them with MoD just means you won’t have illusions up for the burst on CS, does it not? So then you’re playing a back-and-forth timing game, trying to carefully thread the needle on exactly when to drop the rip shatter, then spawn illusions, then MoD, then burst…and at that point, you’ve reentered the domain of skill and counterplay that you’re so concerned about.

(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

100% stability uptime? Who said that. You need 1 stack of stability for a fraction of a second. You don’t have to worry about boon strip as the MoD occurs before both the shatter and the mind stab.

Of course you don’t even need stability as there’s plenty of ways to mess with a Mesmer wanting to engage with a burst. How do you not know this?

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Yes they are pretty close but CI also does other stuff too. Anyway Quadox also has a good suggestion. We could just totally change the trait. That’s another way to do it and actually not a bad idea. Might make the other traits there actually have some use.

So, you’re saying that not only is CI essentially the same (but with no icd) as your proposed CS, but it’s strictly better because CI does other stuff too?

Alternatively, swapping CS with Furious Interruption would also make the other traits there actually have some use, and it would make Furious Interruption have some use, and it would make CS have more of a cost of use, and it would remove the most significant source of boon rip mesmers have if they want CS, which would deal with your concern that stability is not a valid counter to CS (since mesmers would then only be able to boon rip with sword AA, which is hardly a skill-less exchange).

Speaking of that boon rip, why do you think boon rip is a good counter to stability for CS users? The only good source of boon rip we have for burst play is Shattered Concentration, but using a shatter to tear down stability before you hit them with MoD just means you won’t have illusions up for the burst on CS, does it not? So then you’re playing a back-and-forth timing game, trying to carefully thread the needle on exactly when to drop the rip shatter, then spawn illusions, then MoD, then burst…and at that point, you’ve reentered the domain of skill and counterplay that you’re so concerned about.

First you have to get up 100% stability duration, and even then, you can just use your f2 shatter to attempt to remove it. but the point is only one build I can think of ( BD on mesmer ) can keep up even close to permanent stability. And CI is a trait in chaos CS is a triat in domination. If you do run just a shatter build then your going to take just CS and if you go full interrupt your going to take CI and then in that case that opens up room for the other two traits in domination. Either way I still feel like there is a difference between the two traits. The only other idea to add more counterplay to CS is to completely change what it does which actually seems like a good idea. As for swapping CS and FI you could do that but CS would still have just as much counterplay as before. Quite honestly this idea of totally changing CS seems to be a good idea.

EDIT: and how do you know when that fraction of a second is? Making it on interrupt would totally make it have more counterplay.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

First you have to get up 100% stability duration, and even then, you can just use your f2 shatter to attempt to remove it.

1. No, you don’t. You just need enough stability to not get stunned exactly when the mesmer wants you to. If the first 5s of the engagement you have stability, that’s 5s you can be fully effective, and the mesmer cannot. Permanent stability would, in fact, be a total hard counter to CS and interrupt builds without any boon rip.
2. I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water.

but the point is only one build I can think of ( BD on mesmer ) can keep up even close to permanent stability.

See above, don’t need permanent stability. You just need enough to open up counterplay.

Either way I still feel like there is a difference between the two traits.

You can feel it all you want, doesn’t make it true. The truth is that Anet has almost never considered being in different trees to be a sufficient differentiator (all exceptions have had very, very specific reasons). And for good reason.

The only other idea to add more counterplay to CS is to completely change what it does which actually seems like a good idea.

Your penchant for hyperbole is weird. Saying there’s only one other idea, then mentioning a different one right after that? Come on, man.

As for swapping CS and FI you could do that but CS would still have just as much counterplay as before.

WTH, man?
Your biggest argument against existing counterplay is boon strip on f2, which you just mentioned above. But swapping CS and FI means no boon strip on f2, which automatically increases counterplay against CS, which means by definition that CS won’t “have just as much counterplay as before”.
I already said this, and you flat-out ignored me! What is your problem??

(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

Sigh.. I didn’t wanna jump into this thread for this exact reason. This is further proof that you kinda just seem to enjoy arguing.. Or attention or.. Bumping your own threads, idk.

You said you can’t dodge the GS burst when stunned by CS + Mantra.

So.. Should we nerf Decoy and all forms of stealth? Should we nerf Signet of Domination? Magic Bullet? Nerf teamfights?

And this is all assuming a duel. How easy is it to dodge a regular GS burst if you didn’t see the mes coming in the first place?

Again.. There are way worse things in this game to worry about.

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

First you have to get up 100% stability duration, and even then, you can just use your f2 shatter to attempt to remove it.

1. No, you don’t. You just need enough stability to not get stunned exactly when the mesmer wants you to. If the first 5s of the engagement you have stability, that’s 5s you can be fully effective, and the mesmer cannot. Permanent stability would, in fact, be a total hard counter to CS and interrupt builds without any boon rip.
2. I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water.

but the point is only one build I can think of ( BD on mesmer ) can keep up even close to permanent stability.

See above, don’t need permanent stability. You just need enough to open up counterplay.

Either way I still feel like there is a difference between the two traits.

You can feel it all you want, doesn’t make it true. The truth is that Anet has almost never considered being in different trees to be a sufficient differentiator (all exceptions have had very, very specific reasons). And for good reason.

The only other idea to add more counterplay to CS is to completely change what it does which actually seems like a good idea.

Your penchant for hyperbole is weird. Saying there’s only one other idea, then mentioning a different one right after that? Come on, man.

As for swapping CS and FI you could do that but CS would still have just as much counterplay as before.

WTH, man?
Your biggest argument against existing counterplay is boon strip on f2, which you just mentioned above. But swapping CS and FI means no boon strip on f2, which automatically increases counterplay against CS, which means by definition that CS won’t “have just as much counterplay as before”.
I already said this, and you flat-out ignored me! What is your problem??

‘I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water."

I suppose you have like 0 illusions out 100% of the time?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Clone generation my friend, clone generation! And you leave out one teeny tiny thing in your post about stability. You need to know when the mesmer is going to stun you. Just something minor. xD

“WTH, man?
Your biggest argument against existing counterplay is boon strip on f2, which you just mentioned above. But swapping CS and FI means no boon strip on f2, which automatically increases counterplay against CS, which means by definition that CS won’t “have just as much counterplay as before”.
I already said this, and you flat-out ignored me! What is your problem??"

Again, let’s totally ignore the fact you just need to know somehow when to pop the stability when its instant cast…..and its not even gap closer so its not even close to as easy to predict as steal from some newer players……OK. Sounds great.

“’I already asked you why you can “just use your f2 shatter” when that destroys the illusions you need for your burst (that, or it doesn’t guarantee the stability gets cleared, since SC only strips one boon per illusion). You didn’t answer, so this point is already dead in the water.""

Again, just need to know when to pop the stability. Minor

’Your penchant for hyperbole is weird. Saying there’s only one other idea, then mentioning a different one right after that? Come on, man."

A different one? I said a different one which adds more counterplay. Minor difference…

“You can feel it all you want, doesn’t make it true. The truth is that Anet has almost never considered being in different trees to be a sufficient differentiator (all exceptions have had very, very specific reasons). And for good reason.”

It’s not two exactly the same traits its two traits which can accomplsih the same thing with one also doing other stuff in addition. Which is why totally changing what CS does might actually be a better idea if you really think it’s a huge deal.

“So.. Should we nerf Decoy and all forms of stealth?”

Except for the fact stealth only lasts so long.

They both have animations……..lol

“Nerf teamfights?”

WTF? How does that have to do with anything I’m saying?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

’And this is all assuming a duel. How easy is it to dodge a regular GS burst if you didn’t see the mes coming in the first place?"

Seeing as CS + MoD isn’t really taken in PvP why not balance it around where it is taken?

“Again.. There are way worse things in this game to worry about.”

I even said that but this is just something i noticed so i was pointing it out.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

No proof will be forthcoming. I do, however, look to the future and see another poorly quoted diatribe about how CS is so op that us plebs just can’t wrap our heads around it.

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

Diatribe (die-uh-tryb) – A sharp and bitter criticism or denunciation.


Wow look at that, I actually learned something from this thread that’ll stick with me for the rest of my life.

Thank you, fellow pleb.

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Sure thing! Unlike you, I can always stand behind my ideas with solid arguments.

Too many Mesmer mechanics are inordinately skewed towards single target effectiveness. CS is no exception; stun one person aaaaaand that’s it. I wanted to balance it more between multi-target effectiveness and single target effectiveness. Simply making the icd local would drastically boost its strength far too much, so the simple fix is to adjust the icd so that the maximum rate of stunning balances out well for a small group fight, and scales up smoothly into a large fight.

Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that I floated that idea before Mesmer received a string of hefty nerfs to our burst capabilities. At that time, we absolutely were overturned. Now…well, you’ve missed that ship by a couple months.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

No proof will be forthcoming. I do, however, look to the future and see another poorly quoted diatribe about how CS is so op that us plebs just can’t wrap our heads around it.

You just dont understand. CS is OP because you stun every five seconds. No other class can do this. It is not fair. I also don’t like portal. It is not fair that a mesmer can just decap the point and then return. There is no counterplay to this other than standing at the point. But even portal is not as OP as CS. Every five seconds matches up perfectly with MoD this synergy is just too strong. Because you can stun someone every 5 seconds. If I do it to an ele they have to use a stunbreaker, but they cant use another one five seconds later, so if they use a stunbreaker that is not armor of earth, I can just stun them again. But its every 5 seconds, so even if I mess up the opening I can do it again, and they have no way to react to it, cause I could save it and because people cannot react to animations that happen in 1-2 seconds. You know before we couldn’t stun people every five seconds and we did just fine, but now that we can stun people every 5 seconds everything has changed, the mesmer has become the dominant player in all game modes. It use to mean something to be a shatter mesmer, not as much as a d/d ele even with a comparable skill cap, but still it meant something, now it means nothing because we stun every five seconds. And harmonious mantras shouldnt exist because it allow us to stun every five seconds even more. If you can’t see why stunning every five seconds is OP then something is wrong with you because i shoundt even have to explain it.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

No one seems to truly understand. Everything in the game needs counterplay. So my new idea is that unblockable cannot trigger auras. Even counterplay needs counterplay. So reveal need counter reveal, unblockable needs super block, moa needs to not kill minions or prevent transformation, just maybe decrease the length of the transform by that of moa so that 20 seconds transfomrs still get 10seconds. Auras also get aura slicer. Condition cleanse is too good against condi builds so uncleanseable conditions needs to be added. But added to that should be cleanses for uncleanseable conditions.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Sure thing! Unlike you, I can always stand behind my ideas with solid arguments.

Too many Mesmer mechanics are inordinately skewed towards single target effectiveness. CS is no exception; stun one person aaaaaand that’s it. I wanted to balance it more between multi-target effectiveness and single target effectiveness. Simply making the icd local would drastically boost its strength far too much, so the simple fix is to adjust the icd so that the maximum rate of stunning balances out well for a small group fight, and scales up smoothly into a large fight.

Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that I floated that idea before Mesmer received a string of hefty nerfs to our burst capabilities. At that time, we absolutely were overturned. Now…well, you’ve missed that ship by a couple months.

All that was just your opinion. Sry. Proof! :P

@Daniel

Why do I think CS should have more counterplay? Because it would promote more skill. If you good enough instead of eating a stun you can cancel cast your abilities.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

Basically you just keep stating the same things over and over again without any supporting substance, and no one appears to agree with you.

This.

I haven’t read much of anything close to substance in this thread that wasn’t already in stated in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Anything outside of the suggestion posted in that thread will not be capturing my attention any time soon. For the sake of Lyssa, let’s move on.

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Sure thing! Unlike you, I can always stand behind my ideas with solid arguments.

Too many Mesmer mechanics are inordinately skewed towards single target effectiveness. CS is no exception; stun one person aaaaaand that’s it. I wanted to balance it more between multi-target effectiveness and single target effectiveness. Simply making the icd local would drastically boost its strength far too much, so the simple fix is to adjust the icd so that the maximum rate of stunning balances out well for a small group fight, and scales up smoothly into a large fight.

Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that I floated that idea before Mesmer received a string of hefty nerfs to our burst capabilities. At that time, we absolutely were overturned. Now…well, you’ve missed that ship by a couple months.

All that was just your opinion. Sry. Proof! :P

@Daniel

Why do I think CS should have more counterplay? Because it would promote more skill. If you good enough instead of eating a stun you can cancel cast your abilities.

And the reason you want to promote more skill? Mesmer has the third highest skill cap in the game. Do you want to raise us to elementalist tier? Part of the skill tier is based in the sheer amount of instant skills. Lets raise the difficulty at which we chain our numerous instant skills together. Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

(edited by TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275)

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.

Wait, phantasms aren’t crippled by default in WvW/PvP and most PvE content???? I can use them most effectively outside of dueling?! clutches pearls while gasping

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

So your thread has boiled down:

  • CS is so OP it should be totally removed from the game.

I’ve read the odd CS complaint here and there over the months since the patch, but you just took the cake.

Of course let’s be honest, this is what you wanted all along considering this was your actual suggestion on how to change it-

So here is my suggestion.

  • Make the stun on daze stun on interrupt with daze.
  • In addition add a 15 second internal CD.

Definitely a thread end if ever I saw one.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: Korusef.3714

Korusef.3714

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.

Pre-emptive counters: LoS, Stealth, Block, Blind, Stab, Anti cc-traits
Active counters: Stun breaks

It seems to me you have plenty of ways how a skilled player could counter CS.

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.

Pre-emptive counters: LoS, Stealth, Block, Blind, Stab, Anti cc-traits
Active counters: Stun breaks

It seems to me you have plenty of ways how a skilled player could counter CS.

The problem with stun breaks is there isn’t enough time vs CS people who have played it for like 1 hour. And out of all the stuff you mention for pre emptive counters only anti cc traits work because the other ones you won’t have up 100% of the time. But even anti cc-traits means going up in potentially not so good lines in addition to the fact the long CD compared to CS.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Noss.4105

Noss.4105

What the hell, 137 replies to this thread. Glad I haven’t got myself involved.

By the way, you’re all wrong.

N*** Dew Gunnar’s Hold
WvW Roaming with Mesmer

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Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast.

Times when you use stability-

  • When I see the GS wielding Mesmer with two MoD charges on his bar. Pop Dolyak signet to cover any instant stun interrupts, pop bezerker stance to cover any blinds, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Also works great against thieves. Done it hundreds of times.

get stunned first?

  • Pop Dolyak signet and dodge, pop zerker stance, don’t worry about whatever burst you just ate as even on a zerker ammy you’re running 21k+ health. Pop zerker ammy, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Disengage using leaps + superior swiftness access. Also works great against thieves with bask venom. Done it hundreds of times.

And I mean, I’m not even a great warrior player. I don’t even run a meta warrior build. It’s closer to an anti meta build -_-u But please, continue to tell us how bad of a player you are.

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast.

Times when you use stability-

  • When I see the GS wielding Mesmer with two MoD charges on his bar. Pop Dolyak signet to cover any instant stun interrupts, pop bezerker stance to cover any blinds, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Also works great against thieves. Done it hundreds of times.

get stunned first?

  • Pop Dolyak signet and dodge, pop zerker stance, don’t worry about whatever burst you just ate as even on a zerker ammy you’re running 21k+ health. Pop zerker ammy, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Disengage using leaps + superior swiftness access. Also works great against thieves with bask venom. Done it hundreds of times.

And I mean, I’m not even a great warrior player. I don’t even run a meta warrior build. It’s closer to an anti meta build -_-u But please, continue to tell us how bad of a player you are.

’When I see the GS wielding Mesmer with two MoD charges on his bar. Pop Dolyak signet to cover any instant stun interrupts, pop bezerker stance to cover any blinds, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Also works great against thieves. Done it hundreds of times."

Except then the mesmer just waits for the stability to end >.< Dodges killshot, fire volley or your weapon swap.

“get stunned first?

  • Pop Dolyak signet and dodge, pop zerker stance, don’t worry about whatever burst you just ate as even on a zerker ammy you’re running 21k+ health. Pop zerker ammy, stick a killshot right between the Mesmers eyes. Not dead? Fire a volley, or swap to sword in melee range and final thrust his kitten . Disengage using leaps + superior swiftness access. Also works great against thieves with bask venom. Done it hundreds of times."

Or the mesmer can just dodge and then stun you later. As for disengage, warrior is pretty fast but you can at least strip some of there swiftness from say signet elite.

" But please, continue to tell us how bad of a player you are."

Yeah, ask Chaos and Alpha about that.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Khyber.1284

Khyber.1284

Yawn to it all

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

1. It’s not a lower skill cap, it’s a higher skill floor. If you nerfed CS to have “more counterplay”, the skill cap wouldn’t go up, because current mesmers can just go without CS if they like. (Edit: in case you don’t get it, a “skill cap” is defined as the highest potential power achievable by high skill. If more skill = more power, that’s a higher skill cap. But removing options doesn’t raise the skill cap because the potential power doesn’t go up.)

2. Competing with crappy traits does not justify nerfing a good one.

3. There’s nothing wrong with a lower skill floor, FrenchFry’s ungrounded assertions aside.

Edit: Regarding #1, the fact that FrenchFry didn’t spot that error, and in fact affirmed it, just points out that Fry is talking out his kitten here. Sorry man, but you stepped into that one.

(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

The burst is 2 seconds long. How you are not stunbreaking and dodging to avoid at least half is strange.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Bug fix.

/15characters

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

I’m saying it’s far easier to “master” mesmer when you have a trait like CS. So by changing it now you would go back to the old days where you actually had to be somewhat decent to land your burst. And rending shatter can be decent if you say compare it to what dueling has. Tho I think the two traits in domination could use a buff.

Necro>warrior confirmed ty nemesis for single handedly saving the gw2 community!!

/s

Nerf Confounding Suggestions

in Mesmer

Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

you would go back to the old days

How is this a selling point? The old days weren’t great days for the mesmer.