Guild Wars 2

The new mesmer is gonna be REALLY stupid otherwise.

Such a detailed, thoughtful explanation as to why, Guang-senpai.

Consider me enlightened.
(No seriously, why?)

because of tw? long cd. quickness on interrupt? 50% more attack speed on weak attacks = lesser weak attacks. i think it’s balanced.

Ít sounds op on paper, very good quickness uptime. But the thing is, mesmer doesn’t even benefit from quickness very much. Look at sword/torch gs mesmer for example.

The autos on both weapons are too weak to make use of quickness (unlike for example thief, warrior). Sword #2 gets worse in quickness (shorter evade). Sword #3 is instant. Torch #4 is instant. Torch 5# is useless.

Greatsword 2 makes good use of quickness. Gs #3 is already super short cast. Gs #4 only makes use of quickness on summon. Gs #5 is short cast.

Basically, because the phantasms don’t get the quickness, the only damage we do quicker is from mirror blade and arguably Gs#5 knock. Out utilities are also mostly instant (decoy, blink, portal). Indeed the skills that actually benefit from quickness are as follows: Gs #2, Gs #5, Daze mantra charge, Heal, Elite (not time warp).

Not op at all

The skills would benefit from quickness (right after your successful interrupt) probably be mantra recharge and phantasm summoning. It looks to be very good synergy and its WAY TOO EARLY to judge if its OP or not, so please stop calling for nerfs.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Such a detailed, thoughtful explanation as to why, Guang-senpai.

Consider me enlightened.
(No seriously, why?)

- Quickness is a boon now = Affected by boon duration + spreadable with Signet of Inspiration

- Mesmer has quickness on interrupt, gets increased GS CD with every auto-attack, and a GS skill that interrupts

- Quickness increases auto-attack speed

- Mesmer gets spammable Signet of Inspiration on phantasm summon

You can currently get +75% boon duration using Traveler runes, 30 in Inspiration, and boon duration consumables. Since boon duration applies to SOI’d boons twice (once on initial application, again on spread), you can get triple duration on any boon, meaning the 3s quickness on interrupt you get becomes 9s for everyone else, i.e. almost Time Warp levels.

Even assuming the 30% boon duration from traits is nerfed, that’s still +45% from equipment alone, or 2.1x total multipler.

Honestly with the removal of Empowered Mantras, I think this quickness enhancement is the only thing preventing the forums from blowing up PvE wise.

You really think it’s that strong? Added with the mantra ferocity change, I think it’s a decent way to offset the removal of the raw damage modifiers, but time will tell.

Quadox.7834:

But the thing is, mesmer doesn’t even benefit from quickness very much.

Agree. I think this should get addressed in ‘Furious Interruption’ to make the trait more useful.
F.e. When you interrupt a foe gain quickness and reduce the Phantasm Attack Skill Recharge by 2 seconds.

So… You theory crafted a spec that’s pretty much support phantrupt. Taking Dom, chaos, and inspiration.

This is bad why? You have a spec that requires setup or at the very least baiting an active counter to capitalize on, is unique by design compared to the rest of the game, uses trait lines that were often thought of supplementary, and you actively give up a lot in a trade off just to keep perma quickness on allies.

Frankly I welcome to diviserity, especially if it’s viable. Sure it seems a little strong on paper but test it out, if broken will be adjusted. But as it stands seems pretty counter able regardless of spec, an isn’t op 1v1.

It MIGHT be op PvE (even then I doubt It, I haven looked at the new cc in PvE system I just know it changed)… But at that point who cares unless it makes content irrelevant?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The new mesmer is gonna be REALLY stupid otherwise.

They already did it will be a boon and as a boon subject to removal. If anything they may need to remove the penalties from the self only quickness utilities of engineer, ranger, thief and warrior as they are now overly harsh.

Boon stripping will still be in the game, too.

OP didn’t take into account that Slow is going to be a condi.

Nah, OP is simply the one guy that for some reason thinks mesmers are overpowered in PvE right now, and is for some reason worried about us getting stronger (purely because of sharing one boon?) post-expansion.

So will Thieves get Quickness through Plasma now as well?

Korusef.3714:

So will Thieves get Quickness through Plasma now as well?

Given that they can trait to get two uses out of whatever they steal … I certainly hope not … I hope that Plasma exits the game. Getting two doses of every boon in the game every time they steal from me (~21s) doesn’t sound like a fun time … if you’re an interrupt build … even worse since they’d have stability … and becomes even worse if they take Acrobatics given that every 30s it will stunbreak them and refill endurance.

That could be a bigger pain in the butt than what we currently deal with.

OP MESMER NERF NERF NERFFFFFFF

When we are getting good things, the emo train start slitting their wrists.

#emomesmers #crycrycry #slitmywristandhopetodie

I mean seriously? We do not even have any details on our skills, and people start whining?

I believe in the AMA, ANet mentioned that every “stolen skill” will be reviewed and adjusted for all the changes. I sure hope Plasma is gone!!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The new mesmer is gonna be REALLY stupid otherwise.

We all gonna die?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Such a detailed, thoughtful explanation as to why, Guang-senpai.

Consider me enlightened.
(No seriously, why?)

- Mesmer has quickness on interrupt, gets increased GS CD with every auto-attack, and a GS skill that interrupts

Whut? GS 5 is not interrupt. It could interrupt if landed correctly. Quicknes usefull for AA spam (crappy on mesm) or combos (gs2 with 0.56s cast time istead 0.75s – gamebreaking?). Thats’ why FI not popular.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Since boon duration applies to SOI’d boons twice (once on initial application, again on spread), you can get triple duration on any boon, meaning the 3s quickness on interrupt you get becomes 9s for everyone else, i.e. almost Time Warp levels.

Whut? “once on initial application, again on spread” – ? Where from you took it? You played mesmer and tested it? Cuz it’s not right. No boon duration reapplication on spreading. Even more – you spread boon with left duration, not with initial duration. 0.5s of might left after signet cast – u spread 0.5s might

Even assuming the 30% boon duration from traits is nerfed, that’s still +45% from equipment alone, or 2.1x total multipler.

Again whut? If no boon duration from traits than it’is only 15% from equipment only (counting trav runes).
Quickness 3s + 15% = 3.45sec. Time to note buff 0.1-0.6s + signet cast time 0.75 ~ 1s+.
So most time u spread quickness for 2-2.5s. Pvp gamebreaking? Doubtful. Pve gamebreaking when bosses have defiant bar?

WE ALL GONNA DIE!

P. S. Sorry for some type of necroposting.

Caelus.7139:

OP didn’t take into account that Slow is going to be a condi.

One could say that his Quickness was his downfall… or simply that he was too Slow to catch it.

Forget about 10% from signet, but numbers are similar (assuming traits boon duration nerf).
FI would be much more interesting trait if no ICD though with multiple interrupts

Most mesmer damage in pve comes from phantasms the mesmer’s own skills hit like wet noodles.

Is Mesmer your main?
If not, are you going to post on your profession’s sub forum if your main will be overpowered “like” Chronomancer and call for nerfs?

I wanted to take a second look at the idea of quickness spam in PvE.
Before going forward though, we need to look at how long the fight lasts before this matters because of the following:
Fights that last less than 11 seconds: F5, time warp. Time warp is ready for the next boss.
Fights that last less than 22 seconds: F5, time warp, F5, time warp. Signet of inspiration doesn’t work with this combo. Each pulse of time warp gives 1 second and then wears off, so you only ever share 2 seconds with double time warp (assuming it stacks and pulses twice).

Double time warp is basically killing this builds diversity before it even gets started =/. Let’s assume that fights are too long for time warp to really come into play. Alternatively, this build needs to be so good at providing quickness without time warp that we will bring a different elite. F5 will likely be too long of a CD to realistically affect this combo unless used at the start of a fight for a quick burst.

So basically just Tides of Time and Furious Interruption (Domination VI) for sources of quickness. The combo actually becomes really easy once you factor in Inspiration VIII (Signet of inspiration on phantasm summon). Cast tides of time behind allies. This will hit your allies twice. I’m assuming it can only proc on yourself once as you catch it to reduce the CD. It’s also a stun which, if timed well, will proc Dom VI. Then weapon swap and summon a swordsman/duelist. Maybe even do this as the shield is returning to save a bit of time. That’s 3 procs of quickness from the shield and 3 seconds from Dom VI spread to your allies. So 3 + (? x 3). In this build of domination, inspiration, chronomancy, there is no options of boon duration from chaos. If tides of time has a 1 second quickness: 6 seconds base every Y seconds could actually be ok. Tides, swap, swordsman, heal, swordsman, swap to shield 9 seconds before tides is off CD and repeat. Maybe a complicated combo at the start of each fight. Sword 3, F5, Tides, F5, Tides, swap, swordsman, heal, swordsman.

Eh… I give up. I’ll wait until tomorrow when we get more concrete numbers.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Each pulse of time warp gives 1 second and then wears off, so you only ever share 2 seconds with double time warp (assuming it stacks and pulses twice).

being now a boon, it is influenced by boon duration

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

ronpierce.2760:

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

• quickness already affects stomps since the start of the game: if someone invests in traits giving them quickness on some specific cases (interrupts, enemy going below a certain % of health) or if they skillfully apply quickness for stomping, why punish them?
• necros can 1v3 from downstate
• thieves can teleport wherever they want while we get a random, short range, useless teleport
• warriors can interrupt one target vs guardians can interrupt AoE / warriors can go into vengeance vs guardians drop a symbol that sloooowly heals

what “downstate balance” you are referring to?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Even assuming the 30% boon duration from traits is nerfed, that’s still +45% from equipment alone, or 2.1x total multipler.

While all technically correct, I fail to see the problem so far?
If I want to be nothing but a Quickness bot, why shouldn’t I? I’m effectively doing very little but AA and Quickness, seems fair enough?

I’m really confused by this thread. It’s like a statement without any actual statement. “Hey, too much Quickness!” – Why? What is “too much” Quickness? Why is it even a bad thing, even if t had 100% uptime? Too much compared to what baseline? 0%? 100%? 20%? 10%? Why that baseline? Why not another one? What Quickness access do other classes have? Are they the baseline? Is Mesmer specialized in Quickness? To what extend? Too much? Too little? Is it a viable tradeoff? What is given up for it?

Etc, etc.

Now, if you want something comparable, look at healing bomb engineers. If you want, you can make an incredibly healing centric character from that, and the raw healing output is ~stupid.
How often do you complain about that? I’ll take a guess and say not very often, looking at your post history. It’s comparable to Quickness-providing in that it’s very strong, but it’s specced too far. It does what it does so much that no one truly needs it but you give up ~everything else for it.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The new mesmer is gonna be REALLY stupid otherwise.

Have you actually read the description for quickness, it got nerfed some time ago:

“Quickness is an effect that increases attack and action speeds by 50%. Quickness sometimes comes with a temporary drawback, such as a penalty to endurance regeneration, the inability to be healed, or an increase in damage taken while the quickness lasts. "

Endurance regen and non-healing really hurt mes, it has to be used with some thought.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The new mesmer is gonna be REALLY stupid otherwise.

Have you actually read the description for quickness, it got nerfed some time ago:

“Quickness is an effect that increases attack and action speeds by 50%. Quickness sometimes comes with a temporary drawback, such as a penalty to endurance regeneration, the inability to be healed, or an increase in damage taken while the quickness lasts. "

Endurance regen and non-healing really hurt mes, it has to be used with some thought.

Menaka.5092:

ronpierce.2760:

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

• quickness already affects stomps since the start of the game: if someone invests in traits giving them quickness on some specific cases (interrupts, enemy going below a certain % of health) or if they skillfully apply quickness for stomping, why punish them?
• necros can 1v3 from downstate
• thieves can teleport wherever they want while we get a random, short range, useless teleport
• warriors can interrupt one target vs guardians can interrupt AoE / warriors can go into vengeance vs guardians drop a symbol that sloooowly heals

what “downstate balance” you are referring to?

If a Necro 1v3d anyone from down-state all 3 of them need to practice… Their Only CC is a direct fear, two stomps should have gone off.
I’m referring to 2 classes having single target ccs. Several having AOE, and others that have complete stomp resistors.

And we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about the stomp thing. Stomping should be a streamlined process, thats just my general feeling, invuln stomping being the worst aspect, but quickness too. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m pretty firm on that belief and it tends to be a split issue, not a big deal, but respect that I have a different opinion.

interrupting is hard to land and can be blocked with stability, blocks, blind, doge.
so counter to that buff which last for 3s max 6s: can be stolen, removed, converted, wars do 3% more dmg hmm is it op? i dont think so.

and for pve it is realy groupfrienedy and your team will be happy when you can share this buff

ronpierce.2760:

Menaka.5092:

ronpierce.2760:

Personally, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of contest with this, but I don’t think stomps should be affected by either quickness of slow… I feel like they disrupt down state balance.
#NoRegrets

what “downstate balance” you are referring to?

I’m referring to 2 classes having single target ccs. Several having AOE, and others that have complete stomp resistors.

And we’re just going to have to agree to disagree about the stomp thing. Stomping should be a streamlined process, thats just my general feeling, invuln stomping being the worst aspect, but quickness too. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m pretty firm on that belief and it tends to be a split issue, not a big deal, but respect that I have a different opinion.

I respect your different opinion, but I don’t agree on the notion that there’s any kind of “downstate balance” and/or “stomping balance”.

As I mentioned and you acknowledged, some downstate skills are a lot stronger than others. At the same time, some classes have access to utilities that counter some of those skills, for example stability counters interrupts, teleports counter teleports, etc.

There’s no way to fix this unless you rebalance the whole game around the downstate, and that would be pretty silly.

Stomp is a channel that roots you in place, like many other channels in the game is influenced by various effects. If you start tinkering with how stomp should be treated differently, then you’ll soon start thinking that, after all, quickness and slow shouldn’t affect other channels like for example the warrior elite banner, or mesmer illusion of life… it’s a slippery slope and doesn’t make sense at all to me.

This is what i read!

Sebrent.3625:

Korusef.3714:

So will Thieves get Quickness through Plasma now as well?

Given that they can trait to get two uses out of whatever they steal … I certainly hope not … I hope that Plasma exits the game. Getting two doses of every boon in the game every time they steal from me (~21s) doesn’t sound like a fun time … if you’re an interrupt build … even worse since they’d have stability … and becomes even worse if they take Acrobatics given that every 30s it will stunbreak them and refill endurance.

That could be a bigger pain in the butt than what we currently deal with.

my money is on Thieves will continue to destroy Mesmers in HOT.