New to GW2. Mesmer mind-games. What works?
1.) No, players can for one set other models to be standard ones, so basically the same Human model across all opponents. And you can zoom out the camera substantially enough for this to not be a issue when fighting against a Charr/Norn at any rate.
2.) Again, same as above, standard models is an option. Also, this should not be a issue once you are used to reading animations across the various races. I’ve never had an issue fighting against someone because of their selected race.
3.) Again, same as above, standard models. Also, Phantasms are see-through, making it incredibly easy to spot the opaque Sylvari. It should not confuse anyone.
Mind games comes from the illusions and shatters, interrupts and control in general, (stealth if you want to use that), positioning and so on forth. A new player may also be increasingly confused by the illusions regardless, especially when paired with stealth. A more experienced player will pick you out faster than you can count to 1 however, when you pop out of stealth.
Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest
Seafarer’s Rest
3.) Again, same as above, standard models. Also, Phantasms are see-through, making it incredibly easy to spot the opaque Sylvari. It should not confuse anyone.
Mind games comes from the illusions and shatters, interrupts and control in general, (stealth if you want to use that), positioning and so on forth. A new player may also be increasingly confused by the illusions regardless, especially when paired with stealth. A more experienced player will pick you out faster than you can count to 1 however, when you pop out of stealth.
I must direct you to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Sylvari-Phantasm/first#post2498742
Again, I can only speculate as I am still installing the game and thus, gathering info through google.
But, that (pic in the above post) looks pretty confusing to me. Especially in the heat of battle. I doubt even a veteran would immediately pick it out.
You would be surprised how quickly players adapt.
Yes, Mesmers do fool newer players, terribly so in fact. And yes, they are brutal against inexperienced PvP’ers, which is great fun for the Mesmer.
But it is important to understand that, as is the case with any character, class, or profession in any multiplayer game that relies on trickery and mind games to achieve their victory, the concept is founded on a rather flawed philosophy: it is less dependent on the skill of the person playing the character, and more dependent on the stupidity of the opponent. And if you’re familiar at all with game design & PvP mechanics, you can understand why that just doesn’t work.
If victory is your goal, a strategy that relies on the opponent being weaker or dumber than you is going to disappoint far more than it rewards, which is a concept you can actually apply to any area of life. The much more logical and reliable way to win is to ensure you are more skilled than your opponent.
Like Absconditus said above me, no seasoned opponent is going to fall for the tricks. There are plenty more reliable ways to achieve victory as a Mesmer than to rely on cheap gimmicks. ..Although cheap gimmicks certainly do have their place 0:3
You would be surprised how quickly players adapt.
Yes, Mesmers do fool newer players, terribly so in fact. And yes, they are brutal against inexperienced PvP’ers, which is great fun for the Mesmer.
But it is important to understand that, as is the case with any character, class, or profession in any multiplayer game that relies on trickery and mind games to achieve their victory, the concept is founded on a rather flawed philosophy: it is less dependent on the skill of the person playing the character, and more dependent on the stupidity of the opponent. And if you’re familiar at all with game design & PvP mechanics, you can understand why that just doesn’t work.
If victory is your goal, a strategy that relies on the opponent being weaker or dumber than you is going to disappoint far more than it rewards, which is a concept you can actually apply to any area of life. The much more logical and reliable way to win is to ensure you are more skilled than your opponent.
Like Absconditus said above me, no seasoned opponent is going to fall for the tricks. There are plenty more reliable ways to achieve victory as a Mesmer than to rely on cheap gimmicks. ..Although cheap gimmicks certainly do have their place 0:3
Hmm. I have a few points I would like to raise in regards to that response.
Mesmer (seems) to be a class based on trickery.
Now that doesn’t mean to me 24/7 trick-mode and hoping your enemy is dim-witted. BUT instead, employing trickery at the right time.
I don’t care how veteran you are at any game.
I have played other games enough to know that everyone is susceptible to being fooled…if you catch them at the right moment.
And (here’s the kicker) you don’t simply “hope they are stupid”, you FORCE the situation…or gently turn the flow in the direction you want…. to create the “opportunistic moment” you were after.
I have played games (for example) ‘League of Legends’ enough to know that even a “pro” can be fooled by a LeBlanc juke…or a Wukong Clone juke (if you are familiar with the game/characters).
As simple and novice as these can be….(literally as simple as casting a clone and then …doing nothing)…they work when employed at the right time.
Again, you aren’t simply hoping it works. You do everything you can to increase the odds of it working.
Which is why when I saw the Mesmer class, I saw opportunity.
As the example I linked in my above post, with the Sylvari that looked like a phantasm, that is something (I suspect) that could potentially be used…not as a sole-tactic, but something alongside normal gameplay that could confuse people in the heat of the moment when a lot of visual information is present.
Not arguing here. Just throwing out some observations/thoughts and seeing what other people think. Either through experience or speculation.
i find it harder to fight asuras.
they are so small i can’t see their animations properly at times.
and no i dont want to set to standard models for all. i rather lose a fight than lose the visual fashion.
Scourge Demo Weekend Roaming Video:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsby6rYkxS8
i find it harder to fight asuras.
they are so small i can’t see their animations properly at times.and no i dont want to set to standard models for all. i rather lose a fight than lose the visual fashion.
May I ask, does the loss of ‘seeing the animation’ make THAT much of a difference?
Can’t ever say that in a game (like WoW) that it bothered me.
Is GW2 different in this respect?
Truth be told, nothing works against anyone half decent.
At best you can use stealth and teleport/mobility skills (blink, phase retreat, ileap) to confuse people with positioning, but other than that players will not be fooled longer than the <1second it takes to retarget you after stealth.
If you don’t stealth to break target then once they’ve targeted you there is no deception anyway other than movement/positioning.
If you don’t stealth to break target then once they’ve targeted you there is no deception anyway other than movement/positioning.
Wasn’t it skill-shot based? Didn’t think the game used tab-targeting.
i find it harder to fight asuras.
they are so small i can’t see their animations properly at times.and no i dont want to set to standard models for all. i rather lose a fight than lose the visual fashion.
May I ask, does the loss of ‘seeing the animation’ make THAT much of a difference?
Can’t ever say that in a game (like WoW) that it bothered me.
Is GW2 different in this respect?
Seeing and recognizing incoming animations is a big part of GW2 PvP. You’ll learn them in time, but if you can’t react to an incoming Mirror Blade or Earthshaker, you’re going to be in trouble. There are no visual cast-bars on foes so you have to keep your eye on them to see what’s coming.
On topic, I too have the hardest time against Asura mesmers.
As for trickery, utilizing blinks and stealth smartly will cause more confusion to foes than clones. For example blinking behind them or changing the direction you’re running in the moment you stealth. Another trick that works surprisingly often is when kiting, run past a clone and stealth just as you’re behind it (may make the foe think you’re actually one of the clones).
Good players will track you down as there are ways to identify a clone. Acting like a clone can be fun against new players, but it’s not worth it most of the time as you could be doing major damage to them instead.
Nymeriali #Druid
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
(edited by My Sweet Lily.1952)
If you don’t stealth to break target then once they’ve targeted you there is no deception anyway other than movement/positioning.
Wasn’t it skill-shot based? Didn’t think the game used tab-targeting.
Er, yes it does – it’s all tab targeting and you can lock target once acquired.
The “simple” tricks (like obscuring view or hiding between the illusions) won’t work against a half decent opponent. But, you can still use Mesmer skills to trick people. However, that is less due to the nature of Mesmer but more due to the nature of combos, which have a tell.
Every build has some kind of tricks, like baiting dodges with GS#4 on a power shatter build. Or often Mesmers wanna surprise burst their foes from stealth and this burst combo starts often with GS#2, so using GS#2 from stealth but not committing to the actual burst combo will leave your foe exposed for future attacks. Things like this can be used to actually apply mind games, but this is not necessarily unique to Mesmer.
Illusions also have the disadvantage that they often fall victim to AoE or cleave damage. So even if you briefly “tricked” someone, they might just straight out kill your illusions and thus even take one of your possible damage sources away.
On the other hand, what Curunen said bears actually a strong advantage of Mesmers. The combat in GW2 as well as the current pvp formats very much rely on positioning in and out of combat. And Mesmers can be very mobile. If you are good and have a good team, then with the help of blink and portal you yourself can be very mobile in a match and even can make your team very mobile. And this is in imo the actual strength of the core Mesmer profession, which can be incorporated in many builds to a certain degree.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
/deleted due to my own stupidity^^
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
When HoT comes out, I’d like to try to hit F5 (*), jump down a cliff and get ported up again before I get smashed. I wonder how many enemies will jump with me :-)
(edited by Deaeira.2651)
Almost none. That’s often a tactic when someone wants to try and deny someone else a finisher, so most players learn to just let a jumper go.
To all above,
Thanking you for your input.
I do appreciate it very much and will take it all under consideration.
Best wishes!
When HoT comes out, I’d like to try to hit F5 (*), jump down a cliff and get ported up again before I get smashed. I wonder how many enemies will jump with me :-)
Already tried that in beta inside bay. F5 and jumping down, the warrior chasing me followed and I managed to escape by warping back.
But people will understand the mechanics after a while. Ultimately the chronomancer will be back at the rift location.
3.) Again, same as above, standard models. Also, Phantasms are see-through, making it incredibly easy to spot the opaque Sylvari. It should not confuse anyone.
Mind games comes from the illusions and shatters, interrupts and control in general, (stealth if you want to use that), positioning and so on forth. A new player may also be increasingly confused by the illusions regardless, especially when paired with stealth. A more experienced player will pick you out faster than you can count to 1 however, when you pop out of stealth.
I must direct you to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Sylvari-Phantasm/first#post2498742Again, I can only speculate as I am still installing the game and thus, gathering info through google.
But, that (pic in the above post) looks pretty confusing to me. Especially in the heat of battle. I doubt even a veteran would immediately pick it out.
Oh, it’s not the first time this one has been brought up. For one, the static nature of an image, angle, graphical settings and distance in the one screenshot shown, makes it unrepresentative of how it would actually be as an effective “distraction” in-game. Still, you can tell the Phantasms are transparent, compared to the player model, the weapons also gives it away. You, also have Boons which your clones will not have, making you easy to spot by targeting. Anything that pops out of stealth last, is likely to be the Mesmer, again, a quick tell on who you are, should you be using stealth. You will move different to your clones. Your clones will be paper in terms of how much damage they take compared to you. Your clones will never dodge. Your Phantasms have their own weapons, although you can of course purchase and wield the same skins. And again, players can use standard models and team colors (sPvP).
It’d be neat if we could actually deceive anyone with our clones. It’s what I was thinking about too, when I first read about our GW2 version, and I were also somewhat excited by the notion of being able to trick my opponents using my illusions. However — sadly, only new players will be confused, and that’s regardless of your character getup. To a new player, the four targets may be overwhelming, until they realize all the things mentioned above to easily pick out a Mesmer, and then more so when they got an eye for all of them at once. Anyone with experience, is very unlikely going to get confused by that passive kind of deception. Sad truth.
Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest
Seafarer’s Rest
I wasn’t able to read through all the replies here, but from my experience there are mesmer players that are more “deceptive” than others. There are some players out there that are a nightmare to try and target, or are overwhelming for many opponents, or are just downright more tricky than others.
I’m seeing some things like “nothing works against good players” and “only bad players can be tricked.” And while this is true to a degree, I don’t think its entirely accurate. Mesmer has many tools to mentally tax a human opponent, much moreso than say Warrior or Guardian. These are the techniques I’ve seen to be the most effective -to varying degrees- at any level.
- STEALTH – Decoy: I think the most important tool for trickery is the skill Decoy. On it’s own, Decoy cloaks you and sends a clone out in your place. In a straightforward fight, where you and your opponent are squared off, it’s obvious when the Mesmer stealths.. But add in a few of the points below, and things get more complicated.
Stealth breaks target, so immediately the opponent has to try to retarget you before they can attack. Things like Phase Retreat (Staff 2) + Decoy or Blink + Decoy (Not recommended unless you’re pretty skilled or know you’re safe) can make the opponent hesitate before finding you again.
- Stealthing and running/teleporting BEHIND the opponent forces them into a situation where they have to spin their camera around to catch you.
- Stealthing while there are clones around forces the opponent to have to deal with the threat of shatters/phantasms.
- Stacking stealths (Mass Invis + Decoy) makes it much harder for the opponent to try to predict when you’ll reappear, putting you at an advantage.
- POSITIONING – Blink: Blink is, in my opinion, one of the staple Mesmer skills. It offers so much mobility, so much possibility, and so much flexibility that I’ve come to the point where I can’t really build without it.
- Position yourself in fights where you can teleport vertically; best way to practice this is on maps like Battle of Kyhlo where you can even teleport onto the roof when done properly. This way you always have an escape ready, and even if you go and dive into a 3v1 fight you’ll be able to waste the time of 3 opponents while having an escape ready.
- You can sit out of range of an opponent’s attacks (1200r to be exact), making them think they’re safe from any of your phantasm summons or attacks. Since blink is instant-cast, it works in the middle of casting other skills. You can start casting a phantasm from 2000r away, blink into range, and complete the cast while the opponent is offguard, giving you the intiative.
- PRETENDING TO BE A CLONE – Phase Retreat Ohh this is tricky. luckily I already wrote a thang on this. But to summarize: You can never pretend to be a clone for more than a couple seconds, unless the player is exceptionally bad. Are there benefits to doing this? Yeah, but it requires a pretty specific setup to pull off effectively.
- Stealth + Staff is the best way to pretend to be a clone, and tends to be a bit more effective in condition builds. Having Deceptive Evasion also helps, but what you essentially want to do is stealth, summon a couple phantasms (dodge roll and phase retreat) and … pay attention.
- Remember that the opponent can see less behind him than infront of him, so stealthing and blinking behind, phase retreating a clone out, and scampering off elsewhere before stealth wears off to start autoattacking can net you a few seconds of breahting room. Enough to atleast get some other cooldowns recharge or debilitate them with conditions. (Or to simply try to get them to waste some skills)
- In my experience, this only works with staff and scepter. All other weapons require too much mobility. Even then, you have to be very observant to even find the opportunity to pull this off. (except in hotjoin. You can fool people all day in hotjoin)
- STRESS via OVERWHELMING FORCE – Greatsword: Make ‘em panic! Mesmer excells in overloading an opponent’s defenses with shatters, phantasms, and pewpew lazers. The greatsword is fantastic for making an opponent freak out when you burst the hell out of them.
- Panic.. We all feel it from time to time, and especially when things get dire! The moment you appear out of stealth with a heavy burst, start driving lazers into their back AND have a spinning zerking Phantasm harassing them, you’ll set your opponent into a different mindstate. Capitalize on this without getting too blood thirsty and you’ll even be able to protect allies by peeling enemies off them with raw aggression.
- Practice this technique and you’ll have people freaking out and spamming all their cooldowns in no time.
OP, you’re right, Mesmer is a creativity-oriented class and you have to think outside of the box to be successful. The best advice I could give you is to be observant. Keep the basic fundamentals in mind: The opponent only has 4 skills they can use before having to switch, a dodge costs 10s to recharge (5 with Vigor) so if they spam both dodges they’re open, blind ruins skills (blinding dissipation – Dueling master – FTW!) and enemies tend to switch strategies at 50% HP.
Watch, master your abilities (many of which have dual purposes) and duel as many people as you can, you’ll come into your own unique Mesmer fighting style in no time.
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Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Surprised that no one has mentioned it yet but Illusionary Leap —> Swap is a nice tool for kiting on a low CD, especially if you throw The Prestige in there as well.
Surprised that no one has mentioned it yet but Illusionary Leap —> Swap is a nice tool for kiting on a low CD, especially if you throw The Prestige in there as well.
We did mention it.