Guild Wars 2

I’ve always been a fan of Sw/Sw on Mesmer, we’re the only class that can make a viable sw/sw power build and aesthetically it just looks so kitten cool. But in the past Offhand sword was one of the worst possible choices for PvP/WvW compared to it’s competition (PvE offhand sword is actually one of the best choices for Dungeons) and unfortunately this recent balance patch gave no blessings to this awkward offhand.

.. Or did it?

PHANTASMAL HASTE – SPEEDY STABBINGS

The above link is a video comparing the attack speeds of iDuelist vs iSwordsman. iSwordsman (among other phantasms) was always bugged with pHaste to not give the proper boost in attack rate. With this patch, swordsman now clearly outpaces iDuelist damage-wise and as always the damage comes in one heavy hit rather than an easily-mitigated stream of projectiles. Both phantasms can be cast at 1200r, and at this point the only advantages Duelist has over Swordsman is that it sits safely at range and can work in condition builds… once it eventually gets fixed.

IP BASELINE & BLINDING DISSIPATION

Remember that painful illusionary counter that often ended up counter-productive when used defensively against multiple opponents? Well now you can more reliably net the damage without leaving yourself wide open. iCounter hits as hard as any of Swordsman’s attacks, and leaves you a clone to shatter after blocking. A quick Distortion or Blinding F2 should be enough to cover your animations, and the extra clone that the counter leaves makes for a nice shatter burst right behind the counter hit.

RELIABLE STUN – CONFOUNDING SUGGESTIONS

Of all our offhands, Sword grants the most consistent daze on a very low cooldown. With confounding, it is extremely easy to predict when this daze would be a stun and capitalize on it. As it stands, offhand sword is the most reliable and consistent weapon interrupt we have at the moment and on a much lower cooldown than the others.

LEAP FINISHER – CHAOTIC DAMPENING

So we need Chaos Armor to make our staff cooldown quickly huh? No better weaponset to compliment staff than Sword/Sword for this purpose. Summoning the iSwordsman counts as a leap finisher for the Mesmer, granting Chaos Armor on summon. This gives us 3 ways to proc Chaos Armor and a 30% reduction on our skills without needing another Ethereal field such as Null Field.

I’ve been running Sword/Sword+Staff since the patch and have a hard time leaving it. I believe it’s current state outshines the pistol, especially when paired with the staff and offers the second most damage behind Greatsword. I’d still like to see Illusionary Counter buffed to grant kitten evade between the block and counterattack but it is good to see that even though the Offhand sword wasn’t buffed directly, it’s still seen some noticeable improvement.

Chaos, did you experience any problems with the block not spawning a clone? It seemed to work unreliably for me after the patch.

I really enjoy reading this. But I’m not sure about the staff. Only for survivablity? I mean yea that’s a good reason, but that’s all? I still think the warlock misses like 99% of the time and has now lower range than the duellist :|

So you’re using illusions (CD for swordsman), Chaos (for staff recharges) and Domination (for the stun on daze) right? With a marauder amulet?

Let me give it a try. Though I’ve grown used to being a slightly more tanky mesmer with the celestial amulet…

Which rune are you using?

@Menaka Haven’t seen any problems so far.

@Xyonon Mixing GS with sw/sw offers the potential for the most damage out of any weaponset. What I like about staff -or more specifically chaotic dampening- is that running something like Null Field allows you to stack pretty hefty amount of protection on your sword set. Even running GS with dampening and without staff offers a good amount of protection from chaos armor.

@bhagwad I’ve been playing around with different options:

• Dueling/Chaos/Illusions or Dom/Dueling/Illusions or Dom/Duel/Chaos or Dom/Dueling/Inspiration (phantasm boosts and shield phantasm) or your suggestion of Dom/Chaos/Illusions all have potential. I’ve yet to decide which I like the most.

• Runes of Grenth/Mesmer/Lyssa/Pack/Hoelbrak/Vampirism have all caught my attention.

• Sigils of Fire/Air/Rage(if furious interrupt)/Hydromancy/Doom/Intelligence/Energy/Speed have all caught my notice too. For swords I tend to run fire&energy but speed sigils are clutch and I’ve enjoyed rage before, though mostly for the auto attack and offhand skills (and makes iLeap less of a pain)

What would this be used for outside of PvE?

Only thing its good at is 1v1 fights in PvP & WvW roaming.

In teamfights in PvP its kind of subpar. No real utility or aoe damage. It doesn’t really burst a target down fast either.

In WvW zergs or teamfights… Its kind of obvious its not going to do much.

I know new offhand sword is stronger & don’t get me wrong. love phantasm builds and all… But sadly I don’t see the use of this other than PvE & 1v1 Fights. :/

Unless i’m missing something important ofc.

I definitely like the idea of a Domination/Dueling/Inspiration for a SS/GS set.

@Glenndevis: I think even phantasm builds are shatter builds nowadays. And a Mesmer’s utility in a team fight usually comes from their GS burst, not so much the sword-X set, (though a Focus provides some great AoE abilities). Don’t forget that the daze on the sword goes through targets in a line. It’s tough to land, but really worthwhile.

With Mental Defense, dual swords are probably a great way to assault a point, blurred frenzy can create an iDefender on evade, and you can use the block.

What often happens is that the Block clone is cleaved right after its spawn.

How do yall think s/s gs would fare in WvW?

Yeah the OH Sword is tempting, always has been, but the problem is that it’s so limited in it’s use IMO. As stated above, the only really strong side to it is in 1v1 or WvW solo roaming, but even there I have a hard time seeing it replace the Torch.

No matter how bad the Torch Phantasm is, and man I never thought I’d see a more nerfed one than the one we had before the patch (lol! /cry), but it’s all about that extra low CD Stealth. Not having TP and having it means so much in so many situations, it’s really just very hard to give up.

In group fights you can do without it of course, but as others have said, I don’t see the OH Sword helping much in group situations either.

Maybe a roaming build with no 2hers, so you can keep Torch would be neat…but I don’t think Scepter and even OH Sword are up to replacing all that the GS offers.

Last night I ran staff sw/sw. I went from my usual top scorer to the lowest. I felt my burst lay in a staff combo, and my swordsman was getting eaten by AoE. That increase in damage really hurts our phants.

Pistol is still better for a sustained phantasm presence.

Also note that the Pistol Stun is faster than the Sword Daze.

I’ve never really liked off-hand sword especially in PvP and have barely ever used it. The phant has to run to get into melee distance of your opponent which means it tends to die faster to condition or direct AoE damage (especially in PvP were people are usually constantly moving). Ranged off-hand phants last longer. Also I think the block sucks because it only prevents one attack, if it were a 2-3 sec block to all direct damage it would give it more utility. The clone production as the OP mentioned with the new changes does offer some more interesting possibilities, but in my opinion the other off-hands just offer more utility and more survivable phants.

While I love the low cooldowns, I don’t like the block only blocking one attack and the phantasm being exclusively power based (single target, spike damage).

May I ask you what build you are running Chaos?

I have been using Sw/Sw+Staff in PvE, mostly Silverwastes. So far, its my favorite weapon combo for aesthetics, practicality, and mobility for when i pug. I use staff because I like chaos storm. Its pretty and can daze interrupt, giving me quickness. Phantasmal Warlock may not be as strong as duelist, but it hits hard. And i figure it doesnt matter what ranged you use as long as you dont sit on it.

Medicarejunkie.6032:

I have been using Sw/Sw+Staff in PvE, mostly Silverwastes. So far, its my favorite weapon combo for aesthetics, practicality, and mobility for when i pug. I use staff because I like chaos storm. Its pretty and can daze interrupt, giving me quickness. Phantasmal Warlock may not be as strong as duelist, but it hits hard. And i figure it doesnt matter what ranged you use as long as you dont sit on it.

Even in SW, I find Pistol better due to it’s faster projectile speed on interrupt (and bouncing versus line … yness? Also if you trait it (sure you don’t get bleeding) it stacks very nicely with staff for interrupts (although your pistol 5 doesn’t reduce cooldown on pistol 5).

I’m a fan of sw/sw also. Only real complaint is with how clunky the block/daze mechanics works. Have the retaliatory counter hit quicker and daze travel faster and it would golden.

Leodon.1564:

I’m a fan of sw/sw also. Only real complaint is with how clunky the block/daze mechanics works. Have the retaliatory counter hit quicker and daze travel faster and it would golden.

I kind of want the Retaliatory Strike to be like Deja Vu where you can recast whenever you want instead of it instantly recasting. This would let you choose to spawn the clone or not and potentially let it cast like a Mantra so you don’t have to interrupt yourself.

yes yes! offhand sword! I am so loving it even before patch! now the stun on daze is jsut spammable because of the low cd + the block thingy has insane dmg!

Yep, sword/sword is my new favorite weapon set. I’ve been running my own build in PVP and it has been mega fun to play.

Hey Chaos, would like your thoughts on my build?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra8cl0nha0YjawMNwsGLnGEZAWQQRHT37SZJWRCA-TphFwAAOCArPBAd2fIxBB4wDAwZZAA

Just to explain. Rather than trying to compare the sw/sw utility to other weapon sets I tried to make use of its strengths. The offhand sword provides a fantastic phantasm as well as a block or piercing daze if triggered. In terms of pvp in group fights it does interrupt closely grouped opponents. It is particularly frustrating to downed opponents and their teammates trying to revive them. Taking power block is a no brainer. And well, since you have power block why not go the whole way and maximise your ability to interrupt. Which is why I took harmonious mantras. MoD is obvious but mantra of recovery, traited is one of the best heals in the game. Over 6k heal on a quick recharge not to mention the damage stacking on triggering mantras.

To compliment sw/sw i took scepter/pistol as again the build plays to the strengths of the weapon sets rather than the other way around. Scepter 2 is again another block which if triggered either by an opponent or yourself will activate blind and confusion. Pistol again provides fantastic single damage dps and magic bullet causes mayhem in groups with its first hit proccing stun/weakness , second hit proccing daze/stun/weakness and third hit proccing blind and confusion.

I know the build seems like its single target focused with its phantasms but the offhand utility of both weapon sets says otherwise, not to mention sword mainhand blurred frenzy and of course the reduced cooldown of shatters and their traited effects.

The primary drawback to the build is its condition cleansing. I only run generosity on a weapon set and thats it which is why I take centaur runes for the permanent swiftness uptime (using mantra heal) and passive cripple reduction + its 100 power. I also take moa mainly for its passive condition reduction though it does help mostly vs eles, necros and engis.

If things get too tough its easy to kite with teleport and decoy which should give you enough time to cycle through your heal as required. Whilst activating mantras, your armor will spike up to 3K also.

Im really quite enjoying this built atm. Wish it were easier to make celestial armor for wvw.

Royale.5863:

Hey Chaos, would like your thoughts on my build?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra8cl0nha0YjawMNwsGLnGEZAWQQRHT37SZJWRCA-TphFwAAOCArPBAd2fIxBB4wDAwZZAA

Just to explain. Rather than trying to compare the sw/sw utility to other weapon sets I tried to make use of its strengths. The offhand sword provides a fantastic phantasm as well as a block or piercing daze if triggered. In terms of pvp in group fights it does interrupt closely grouped opponents. It is particularly frustrating to downed opponents and their teammates trying to revive them. Taking power block is a no brainer. And well, since you have power block why not go the whole way and maximise your ability to interrupt. Which is why I took harmonious mantras. MoD is obvious but mantra of recovery, traited is one of the best heals in the game. Over 6k heal on a quick recharge not to mention the damage stacking on triggering mantras.

To compliment sw/sw i took scepter/pistol as again the build plays to the strengths of the weapon sets rather than the other way around. Scepter 2 is again another block which if triggered either by an opponent or yourself will activate blind and confusion. Pistol again provides fantastic single damage dps and magic bullet causes mayhem in groups with its first hit proccing stun/weakness , second hit proccing daze/stun/weakness and third hit proccing blind and confusion.

I know the build seems like its single target focused with its phantasms but the offhand utility of both weapon sets says otherwise, not to mention sword mainhand blurred frenzy and of course the reduced cooldown of shatters and their traited effects.

The primary drawback to the build is its condition cleansing. I only run generosity on a weapon set and thats it which is why I take centaur runes for the permanent swiftness uptime (using mantra heal) and passive cripple reduction + its 100 power. I also take moa mainly for its passive condition reduction though it does help mostly vs eles, necros and engis.

If things get too tough its easy to kite with teleport and decoy which should give you enough time to cycle through your heal as required. Whilst activating mantras, your armor will spike up to 3K also.

Im really quite enjoying this built atm. Wish it were easier to make celestial armor for wvw.

I had a look.

It’s not only that you don’t have any condition cleanse, you also lack all manner of hit mitigation. You have your cele ammy hp which is “ok”, and traited BF, and an OH sword block, (scepter block too), but you can be sure you’re going to get hit by all manner of both damaging condi’s and, more importantly, immobs. Condition and heavy CC classes will have a field day under the current meta. I was surprised you took the Illusions line over Inspiration. The question I’d pose to you is, do you need the extra condi’s damage out of the Illusions line that could otherwise go into sustain found in Inspiration? Since you’re running a cele ammy you might be inclined to say yes, but I’d argue that’s only because the cele ammy means you lack the front loaded damage pressure something like Zerker would provide. It’s a bit of a catch 22.

Anyway this is what it might look like. Though phant fury is always a big ++ for your iDuelists and iSwordsmen (over pistol CD) now that iDuelist is 1200 range base.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra8cl0nha0YjawMNwsGLnG0ZViy1JDwCCaZJWRCA-TphFABAcEAAvMwanAgO2fIhDCwBPAAA

I should add that I see what you’re going for, and I don’t think it’s bad. I just can’t ignore the one glaring weakness, and also note the watering due to the various synergies you’re trying to capture all at once.

Yep i see what youre getting at. Actually i do take phant fury, mustve chosen the pistol cd trait mistakenly in the build link. Admittedly ive only just started playing the build over the last 24 hours in pvp ranked and unranked and use blink decoy and distortion to mitigate damage. Its got some obvious drawbacks as you pointed out so most importantly i try to pick my engagements

Ill give your variant a try and see how it feels. Honestly i only took illusions because i like the lower cd on our class mechanic and yes, i took cele and worked with it as i didnt want to take inspiration.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I’ve always been a fan of Sw/Sw on Mesmer, we’re the only class that can make a viable sw/sw power build and aesthetically it just looks so kitten cool. But in the past Offhand sword was one of the worst possible choices for PvP/WvW compared to it’s competition (PvE offhand sword is actually one of the best choices for Dungeons) and unfortunately this recent balance patch gave no blessings to this awkward offhand.

.. Or did it?

PHANTASMAL HASTE – SPEEDY STABBINGS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1p4zD3mLPc

The above link is a video comparing the attack speeds of iDuelist vs iSwordsman. iSwordsman (among other phantasms) was always bugged with pHaste to not give the proper boost in attack rate. With this patch, swordsman now clearly outpaces iDuelist damage-wise and as always the damage comes in one heavy hit rather than an easily-mitigated stream of projectiles. Both phantasms can be cast at 1200r, and at this point the only advantages Duelist has over Swordsman is that it sits safely at range and can work in condition builds… once it eventually gets fixed.

IP BASELINE & BLINDING DISSIPATION

Remember that painful illusionary counter that often ended up counter-productive when used defensively against multiple opponents? Well now you can more reliably net the damage without leaving yourself wide open. iCounter hits as hard as any of Swordsman’s attacks, and leaves you a clone to shatter after blocking. A quick Distortion or Blinding F2 should be enough to cover your animations, and the extra clone that the counter leaves makes for a nice shatter burst right behind the counter hit.

RELIABLE STUN – CONFOUNDING SUGGESTIONS

Of all our offhands, Sword grants the most consistent daze on a very low cooldown. With confounding, it is extremely easy to predict when this daze would be a stun and capitalize on it. As it stands, offhand sword is the most reliable and consistent weapon interrupt we have at the moment and on a much lower cooldown than the others.

LEAP FINISHER – CHAOTIC DAMPENING

So we need Chaos Armor to make our staff cooldown quickly huh? No better weaponset to compliment staff than Sword/Sword for this purpose. Summoning the iSwordsman counts as a leap finisher for the Mesmer, granting Chaos Armor on summon. This gives us 3 ways to proc Chaos Armor and a 30% reduction on our skills without needing another Ethereal field such as Null Field.

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I’ve been running Sword/Sword+Staff since the patch and have a hard time leaving it. I believe it’s current state outshines the pistol, especially when paired with the staff and offers the second most damage behind Greatsword. I’d still like to see Illusionary Counter buffed to grant kitten evade between the block and counterattack but it is good to see that even though the Offhand sword wasn’t buffed directly, it’s still seen some noticeable improvement.

A very minor point as it won’t come up very often at all, but if you take the traits that recharge sword and staff, it also effects all our underwater weapons too, so running S+S / Staff plus those two traits…

Again, like I said, it isn’t something that will matter in most cases, but there are a few rare times, like when I had a couple reds catch me out while swimming across the wvw great lake to try to rejoin our zerg… the recharge did help me out there

Would you recommend the Sw/Sw Staff for leveling ? Just rolled out a new toon and trying to keep my interest invested untill HOT and hit 80. I do mainly open world PvE, hearts, personal story for leveling.

@Royale Hey dude, I tried out your build last night for a few rounds and had a lot of fun. It currently feels .. not entirely optimal in some ways, but nonetheless effective and enjoyable. Some notes I took:

• I didn’t realize (but secretly hoped) Confounding Suggestions doesn’t count stuns. So pistol shot stuns two targets. Or you can stun someone with the pistol, switch to sword, stun them again with the sword daze while your phantasms wail on them. Fun stuff

• Build still feels too single-target for my liking. While I can decimate nearly any 1v1, fighting outnumbered was difficult (though it was also in part because I’m not used to the build) and I didn’t feel very effective in team fights… Except making it a nightmare for my enemies to get off stomps/rezzes, which, now that I think about it, is actually pretty useful.

• Made some slight changes: Kept the pistol trait and the sword trait though I find it hard to justify traited swords over Blinding Dissipation, since blinding is a fantastic defensive tool and works along with ineptitude. Added Phantasmal haste, Persistence of Memory and Furious Interruption. Right now I feel furious is highly underrated, and it works well in this build.

• Conditions. Ugh. I gotta be good at this game like Warlord of Chaos and Jurica and get used to having next to no removal.

• Moa Signet is dope, never tried it before. Centaur runes are dope too!

• Celestial ughhhh. It works, but I feel it makes me lazy and holds the build back from it’s true potential. I feel theres not enough condition damage or heals here to make cele feel worth it, not just for the added defense.

So far it’s been fun, but like Ross said the first thing that came to mind is “Is Illusions worth it over Inspiration?” I feel Inspiration would make for a better fit here, but it is really hard to give up the sword cooldowns in both illusions AND dueling. I’m gonna keep working with Illusions for now and see how I feel, but so far it’s been a blast to play.