Guild Wars 2

As title says. I came back after a long break and I was wondering if shatter is still the way to go.

I really dislike the playstyle and I would enjoy a lot more if I could play some heavy CC (lockdown?) or heavy condition build.

Any suggestion?

It is the opinion of the “elite” top tier, competative, torny scene mesmers that 4, 4, 0, 0, 6 IP shatter is the ONLY!!! viable mesmer build to run. Many fans, non-mesmers, and casuals repeat the same thing they’ve heard from these aforementioned mesmers. Keeping in mind that hand in hand with this opinion is that Mesmer, and by this I mean IP shatter mesmer has fallen out of the meta (is not viable) any longer in top tier competitive pvp, which is largly due to the hard counter thieves present to that particular build.

All that said, it is the opinion of many other long standing mesmer mains, with as much experience with the class (though not in torny teams) that at least CI lockdown is not only viable, but far superior to shatter for various reasons, and in various ways. And at least one Mesmer (that’d be me) that a CS Mesmer is as viable in competitive play. There is also an a growing trend toward lockdown within the Mesmer community/playerbase, and adjustment in thinking taking place along these lines.

The typical Lockdown build is 4, 4, 6, using CI, BI, DE, boon remove on shatter, with either staff, GS, sword/focus, or possibly pistol.

CS is 6, 6, X, sword/sword scepter/pistol.

There was a recent discussion here you can get some more opinions regarding this topic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PVP-4-4-6-0-0-CI-vs-4-4-0-0-6-Shatter/first

That’s my view on the matter anyway.

There isn’t really any competitive scene so I don’t see what’s stopping you just playing whatever you feel like. That said, non-shatter specs have substantial team compositional or build weaknesses and the advantages that shatter brings are so strong that it’s a no brainer right now.

Yeah, unless you’re playing tournies do whatever you wanna do.

Thank you all for the replies.

Ross Biddle.2367:

It is the opinion of the “elite” top tier, competative, torny scene mesmers that 4, 4, 0, 0, 6 IP shatter is the ONLY!!! viable mesmer build to run. Many fans, non-mesmers, and casuals repeat the same thing they’ve heard from these aforementioned mesmers. Keeping in mind that hand in hand with this opinion is that Mesmer, and by this I mean IP shatter mesmer has fallen out of the meta (is not viable) any longer in top tier competitive pvp, which is largly due to the hard counter thieves present to that particular build.

All that said, it is the opinion of many other long standing mesmer mains, with as much experience with the class (though not in torny teams) that at least CI lockdown is not only viable, but far superior to shatter for various reasons, and in various ways. And at least one Mesmer (that’d be me) that a CS Mesmer is as viable in competitive play. There is also an a growing trend toward lockdown within the Mesmer community/playerbase, and adjustment in thinking taking place along these lines.

The typical Lockdown build is 4, 4, 6, using CI, BI, DE, boon remove on shatter, with either staff, GS, sword/focus, or possibly pistol.

CS is 6, 6, X, sword/sword scepter/pistol.

There was a recent discussion here you can get some more opinions regarding this topic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PVP-4-4-6-0-0-CI-vs-4-4-0-0-6-Shatter/first

That’s my view on the matter anyway.

Man, those acronyms are killing me.

Nice insight tho, I guess I will try out lockdown. So far I’ve found a condition heavy build that I happen to like (2-6-4-2 with 3 signets and stuff, Sword/pistol + staff.

I was also thinking about trying a torment based build with the Maim the disillusioned trait. Is it any good?

Ross Biddle.2367:

The typical Lockdown build is 4, 4, 6, using CI, BI, DE, boon remove on shatter, with either staff, GS, sword/focus, or possibly pistol.

Ok so, I tried this build, with staff + sword / focus. (tried as in, I tested vs the fighting npcs in HoTM).

How the kitten does it work? I literally can’t wrap my mind around it. Does one open with sword 3? Or curtain?

Also, it’s kitten hard to spot when to interrupt without an enemy casting bar. How does one go at it?

Bigbosos.2063:

Also, it’s kitten hard to spot when to interrupt without an enemy casting bar. How does one go at it?

First of all I’m no pro at interrupt but I thought I’d share my noob insights since I recognize your frustration. I was thinking the same thing when I started playing interrupt and to start I just guessed when they where gonna do something. Eventually I started spotting the animations and movement.

Good moments to be ready to interrupt:

- At fight start (obvious but often quite easy to hit it)
- When health is around half, many heal animations are big movements with arms in the sky.
- In a long fight when they have been retreating for a while, if you see them turn around (most attacks require to be faced at you).
- Like 1 second after you pop out of stealth, depending on the skill level of the opponent.
- Channeling animations! Rangers rapid fire thing is great to interrupt.
- Basically, look for animations other than running.

Also, remember that Stability is your enemy, remember to look for it and bring tools like Null Field or Arcane Thievery to remove it, some builds have a lot of stability so you need to rip that kitten out asap, especially Guardians and warriors.
Engineers with their kittening shield can be annoying too.

After a while you will learn to hit that interrupt really fast, for me when I play interrupt now I have a gut feeling when they will come and what to look for and slap that interrupt out of reflex.

Favorite skill to interrupt is that warrior jump thing (or is it guardians who do it? Maybe both?) anyway, really long load up for it and when they are midair -FLONK- they fall down and look silly.

Remember you can interrupt with the Mantra of Distraction without seeing or facing the enemy, just have them targeted. Perfect when being chased.

Here’s a good lockdown guide thread with build links and more
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Lockdown-Mesmer-Tactics-Techniques/first

Here is a specefic CI lockdown thread including vid links
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chaotic-Interruption-in-tPvP-w-Notations/first

Here’s a CS interrupt build with vid links so you can see gameplay
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantrupt-Asskicker-CS-Interrupt/page/first

Interrupting is a learned reflex and it takes practice to get good at it. Eventually you can get so good it becomes instinctual. You’ll start to read your opponents every move.

I think I can recall Helseth telling me CI is better than shatter for PvP but just too hard/cba to get used to the playstyle again. Shatter mesmer as is is the hardest class/build to play currently at a high level (rotations are the hardest of any class/build, very unforgiving when it comes to both CD management and positioning, any mistake could mean death ect.) and CI is a different playstyle meaning you’d have to get used to doing a lot of different stuff.

For competitive tpvp CI is better suited as the immobilizes wouldn’t/shouldn’t go wasted as it can in spvp.

Regardless, if you play spvp or even tpvp as solo, CI, Shatter are your standard builds. However, as Ross posted, there are alternatives that you can play and not just be a feeder.

I play a PU hybrid shatter build doesn’t fit into any of the standard . All I do is solo Q ranked all day, I do jut fine.
Standard shatter imo is THE way to go if you have a premade team.
CI is very good if you are good at interrupt which takes a while . I don’t use it because while it shines in 1 v 1 it does not have sustain .
I play my build because it suits my playing style, it’s forgiving and still pack enough of a punch . If I’m really on I drop PU and go more shatter.

Ross Biddle.2367:

The typical Lockdown build is 4, 4, 6, using CI, BI, DE, boon remove on shatter, with either staff, GS, sword/focus, or possibly pistol.

CS is 6, 6, X, sword/sword scepter/pistol.

Not to be picky Ross, but while your CS build is the 1h weapons, typical CS builds use Staff over Pistol.

Bigbosos.2063:

Ross Biddle.2367:

The typical Lockdown build is 4, 4, 6, using CI, BI, DE, boon remove on shatter, with either staff, GS, sword/focus, or possibly pistol.

Ok so, I tried this build, with staff + sword / focus. (tried as in, I tested vs the fighting npcs in HoTM).

How the kitten does it work? I literally can’t wrap my mind around it. Does one open with sword 3? Or curtain?

Also, it’s kitten hard to spot when to interrupt without an enemy casting bar. How does one go at it?

Its about planning ahead, not just reacting. Look at your skills and start to figure how you can link together your dazed, stuns, immobs.

Focus Pull → iLeap
Chaos Storm + Diversion[F3] shatter.

Take it step by step, first train yourself to spot interrupts, the GS Mesmer, Necro and Guardian NPCs are good practice for this since they all have obnoxious attacks. Try to save your mantra interrupt for when you know it will hit, rather than spamming it in hopes of an interrupt. Then practice with temporal curtain: place it down and let it linger for a bit until you see an interrupt opportunity.

After you get comfortable interrupting, start trying to find ways to capitalize on interrupts. You have a 2s immobilize to work with, either shatter with Mind Wrack or let iWarlock do its work. Sometimes try using ileap on an interrupted opponent to prolong the immobilize duration. Work on saving Chaos Storm for when you can swap back to sword so you can immobilize people inside the storm with leap. Eventually it all becomes natural, you’ll be immobilizing people for iWardens full spinny duration, hitting them with blurred frenzy, and shattering all over their faces in some mighty bursts!

Also.. Greatsword works just as well in place of staff.

My only issue when I play lockdown mesmer is that, if your opponent has stability up, you need to first strip it before you can fully utilize the build. And stripping the stability can take some time, especially if your opponent has multiple boons (which is common). This really cuts down on your ability to +1 a fight and quickly down a target.

Overall, lockdown mesmer shuts down certain builds/classes really hard (especially necros and shatter mesmers), but seems to do really poorly against classes that have good access to stability or high sustain (to survive the two MoD uses).

Based on this, I think shatter ends up being slightly more versatile. Lockdown trades some of this versatility for the ability to complete wreck certain builds.

ResJudicator.7916:

My only issue when I play lockdown mesmer is that, if your opponent has stability up, you need to first strip it before you can fully utilize the build. And stripping the stability can take some time, especially if your opponent has multiple boons (which is common). This really cuts down on your ability to +1 a fight and quickly down a target.

Overall, lockdown mesmer shuts down certain builds/classes really hard (especially necros and shatter mesmers), but seems to do really poorly against classes that have good access to stability or high sustain (to survive the two MoD uses).

Based on this, I think shatter ends up being slightly more versatile. Lockdown trades some of this versatility for the ability to complete wreck certain builds.

What builds are these that have enough stability to cause a genuine problem for CI? CI lockdown builds have as good boon removal kittenter does (CD’s on shatter withstanding). As far as CS is concerned, there’s no trouble waiting out stability if you dont have boon removal.

A sustain class can sustain for a while, but fair enough given they’re build for sustain. Regardless, it’s only a matter of time, then the rupts come down and the sustain classes take a dirt nap. I’ve had no significant problem with them with zero boon removal.

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

My only issue when I play lockdown mesmer is that, if your opponent has stability up, you need to first strip it before you can fully utilize the build. And stripping the stability can take some time, especially if your opponent has multiple boons (which is common). This really cuts down on your ability to +1 a fight and quickly down a target.

Overall, lockdown mesmer shuts down certain builds/classes really hard (especially necros and shatter mesmers), but seems to do really poorly against classes that have good access to stability or high sustain (to survive the two MoD uses).

Based on this, I think shatter ends up being slightly more versatile. Lockdown trades some of this versatility for the ability to complete wreck certain builds.

What builds are these that have enough stability to cause a genuine problem for CI? CI lockdown builds have as good boon removal kittenter does (CD’s on shatter withstanding). As far as CS is concerned, there’s no trouble waiting out stability if you dont have boon removal.

A sustain class can sustain for a while, but fair enough given they’re build for sustain. Regardless, it’s only a matter of time, then the rupts come down and the sustain classes take a dirt nap. I’ve had no significant problem with them with zero boon removal.

I’m primarily thinking about hambow wars (balanced stance) and D/D ele (armor of earth).

I’m not saying you can’t strip stability, and the first thing I’ll do is set up a multi-clone mindwrack + GS3 to strip the stab. And of course, you can also just wait out the stability. The problem is that each of these methods adds another 6-7 seconds before you can really start to get the pressure going, and it also gives away your presence.

When I’m running a pure glass roaming build, I generally want to end fights much faster when I’m +1ing. Until stability is gone, lockdown plays like a slightly suboptimal phantasm/shatter build (speaking objectively, in terms of trait allocation).

In contrast, when I’m +1ing with shatter, I feel like I can heavily pressure (and even instagib) the above builds (especially D/D ele) as soon as I join the fight. There’s no need to strip stability for shatter to be fully effective. (This is from the perspective of Conquest, rather than duels or WvW where timing becomes less of an issue).

Again, I’m not knocking lockdown — I definitely enjoy the playstyle, and agree that it outperforms shatter in a lot of other situations. I just find it to be less versatile because of the requirement that you first strip stability before the build can pressure as hard kittenter.

Also, about sustain fights, I’m not sure that’s where lockdown excels either (unless you spec for a primarily phantasm-focused build with interrupts on the side). I’m thinking primarily 4/4/6. My reasoning is that, once MoD runs out, you’re stuck with weapon-skill interrupts, which are all telegraphed. Sustain classes are more likely to last through those two MoD charges. For example, when I’m playing a D/D ele, I feel like I usually win vs lockdown mesmer even if the lockdown mesmer nails every interrupt, just because the D/D ele can LOS, heal up, and resume the fight without worrying about further MoDs.

I find lockdown works best against other glass builds, as well as necros just because necro skills (including their main condi clears) take so long to cast.

Also don’t forget you could interrupt most AAs as a setup for shatter burst.