Guild Wars 2

As the title says, a Mantra for swiftness with two or so uses. the numbers for balancing I’m not sure of.

That would be interesting and I think, balanced even if it permitted essentially endless swiftness. I’d add swiftness as a duration buff to an existing mantra, though. That way you have a choice of either running fast or preserving that mantra’s existing use. And, it gives yet another tough choice on what utilities to slot.

I’d love to see this replace the useless Mantra of Concentration.

Mantras are nothing but the same skills other classes have but repackaged in with annoying busy work. Charging them is just irritating. I say get rid of them all and give me some decent condition removal beyond null field and a passive speed signet.

I’ve been using Mantra of Resolve for condition removal for a while now, and I like it. The buff to Mantras has only increased its usability.

Yeah, but constantly recharging it is just busy work. It should just have a normal cooldown. It does nothing to play and only discourages the use of mantras. I hate the way mantras are build and I don’t think I’ll ever use them tbh. (I reserve the right to change my mind. :P)

The reason I prefer Mantra of Resolve over other condition removal skills is because both Thievery and Disenchanter require a target and can be countered by the enemy, and Null Field’s CD is too long and it only removes one condition per pulse anyway. Resolve on the other hand removes two conditions instantly and you can use it two times, and after those two charges are used you only need to wait 20 seconds to charge it again.

3s charging time is much better than 4s.

I would prefer they completely redid signet of inspiration to simply give a 15% passive movement speed boost.

We would still be the absolute slowest moving profession of the game which obviously is Anet’s intention, but at least the gap wouldn’t be this obvious.

Alex.9268:

I would prefer they completely redid signet of inspiration to simply give a 15% passive movement speed boost.

We would still be the absolute slowest moving profession of the game which obviously is Anet’s intention, but at least the gap wouldn’t be this obvious.

Why not go +25% like every other passive speed boost now in the game?

Because clearly Anet wants one of our mesmer tradeoffs to be being the slowest moving profession. 15% is enough to ensure we still are the slowest profession, but at least it wouldn’t be as frustrating as it is now.

We need less Mantras, ideally 0 (and give me Illusions as a spell type instead), not more. :S

nobody thinks the upside to mantras is the fact that they can be used more than once?..consecutively?? and if traited can be used 3 times?

I actually consider that a sign of a pretty big downside.
Mantras should be balanced so they are just like other abilities, however fully frontloaded in return for a slightly~medium increase in cast time.

This was sPvP-balance-wise (as always… sigh) not viable, we could equip 4 Mantras and frontload too much.
So it got nerfed to weaker effects but 2~3 uses.

It just goes to show how problematic a concept Mantras are, that they struggle so much with even their very basic idea.

Well I was thinking either add it to the Signet of inspiration(right name?) so passive we gain MS and if we use it we get a random buff every 10seconds of it’s CD(give it maybe 30-40sec cd? what ever would be balanced with the others.) OR add a mantra for that, so we can buff our speed fight buff our speed again to another fight. If we have the trait then we can do if a 3rd time.

I find the mantra of resolve useful. Sure the charge time is annoying, but you are getting 2x condition removal with a low cooldown.

Agreed with those that said signet of inspiration needs to give a permanent passive speed boost of at least 15 percent. So disappointed with this “more reliable ways of swiftness” that the dev promised us.

Setting aside a whole slot exclusively for swiftness seems weak, while it still doesn’t solve the problem of our lacking a passive speed boost.

What might be more useful is adding a trait that gives a passive speed increase based off of charged mantras (the illusion one doesn’t make sense). That way you can decide between utilities that give more of a mobility burst or mantras that make you faster… in the long run.

I’m not sure a mantra is right for swiftness. The advantage to mantras is the multiple instant casts for emergencies, and swiftness just isn’t an emergency boon.

But if you must, perhaps just build it into Mantra of Resolve: If the skill does not remove any conditions, you get a few seconds of swiftness.

Instead of having them give us more speed boost (which I support but don’t think it would happen) how about please giving us some more immobilizes so that we have a chance to catch these 25% movement speed+ permanent swiftness classes now? Sword 3 is the only immobilize I know about, and it’s very difficult to use of a player running from you with swiftness on, they usually get out of range before the cast completes, and that leaves us with blink to catch up… A utility skill just to catch professions kind of blows now. With staff , good luck catching a player running from you.

Yeah I really hate using mesmers in any PvP(Structured isn’t bad but WvW is awful). A speed buff like this idea or to a signet is needed its quite unfair.

Riku.4821:

Yeah I really hate using mesmers in any PvP(Structured isn’t bad but WvW is awful). A speed buff like this idea or to a signet is needed its quite unfair.

In WvW it’s the least of my worries ,since groups usually have 100% Swiftness coverage on the entire group anyhow.

SoggyFrog.4170:

Setting aside a whole slot exclusively for swiftness seems weak, while it still doesn’t solve the problem of our lacking a passive speed boost.

What might be more useful is adding a trait that gives a passive speed increase based off of charged mantras (the illusion one doesn’t make sense). That way you can decide between utilities that give more of a mobility burst or mantras that make you faster… in the long run.

Now that is a great idea. 5% passive speed for each charged mantra. We would still be the slowest profession as Anet intends, but we would be able to sacrifice a whole lot of utility for decent speed (for jumping puzzles for example).

Embolism.8106:

I’d love to see this replace the useless Mantra of Concentration.

Mantra of concentration isn’t useless. I’ve used it quite a few times for certain dungeon encounters and it can be incredibly useful for pvp as well.

Fay.2735:

Embolism.8106:

I’d love to see this replace the useless Mantra of Concentration.

Mantra of concentration isn’t useless. I’ve used it quite a few times for certain dungeon encounters and it can be incredibly useful for pvp as well.

It may have uses in PvE because you can see huge CC attacks coming and proc Stability preemptively, but you’re really better off getting a utility that will get you out of said attack.

In sPvP it has absolutely no place, 1.5s of Stability x2 is not worth taking at all over the Mesmer’s other, more powerful, utilities. Stun break? Pffft, the Mesmer has far better stun breakers (Blink and Decoy for example: the former is also far better at dealing with CC moves than 3s of Stability is, since you can use it reactively instead of preemptively).

Carighan.6758:

Riku.4821:

Yeah I really hate using mesmers in any PvP(Structured isn’t bad but WvW is awful). A speed buff like this idea or to a signet is needed its quite unfair.

In WvW it’s the least of my worries ,since groups usually have 100% Swiftness coverage on the entire group anyhow.

Yeah well I can never find a nice group like that :P

Embolism.8106:

It may have uses in PvE because you can see huge CC attacks coming and proc Stability preemptively, but you’re really better off getting a utility that will get you out of said attack.

In sPvP it has absolutely no place, 1.5s of Stability x2 is not worth taking at all over the Mesmer’s other, more powerful, utilities. Stun break? Pffft, the Mesmer has far better stun breakers (Blink and Decoy for example: the former is also far better at dealing with CC moves than 3s of Stability is, since you can use it reactively instead of preemptively).

I’ve found plenty of uses for it previously and have tried it out in PvP settings with some success more so in WvW than sPvP though the play style using it isn’t my thing. You’re also forgetting the use mantra three times trait + restorative mantras can make for interesting burst style play.

The person said the ability is useless but it’s not it can be used in certain play styles and as you said yourself it has uses in PvE foremost (Many knights forward-forward TA path comes to mind, Searing Effigy CoF).

I don’t think an ability becomes useless just because it’s not as PvP orientated as majority of other situational mesmer abilities.

That’s just my opinion though, I’m just saying that there are people who find the ability useful. There’s a lot of people complaining about mantras but with the decrease in cast time now mantra builds are far more viable and I can see this ability be useful in such builds.

I would like to see some sort of passive swiftness sigil be introduced though the small in crease in swiftness that was added is already making some difference.

Riku.4821:

Carighan.6758:

Riku.4821:

Yeah I really hate using mesmers in any PvP(Structured isn’t bad but WvW is awful). A speed buff like this idea or to a signet is needed its quite unfair.

In WvW it’s the least of my worries ,since groups usually have 100% Swiftness coverage on the entire group anyhow.

Yeah well I can never find a nice group like that :P

Neither can I. What I can find is the groups of folks who apply swiftness on everyone in front.

IE, not me.

No. Low mobility is supposed to be a mesmer weakness.

Aether McLoud.1975:

No. Low mobility is supposed to be a mesmer weakness.

It is more of a cripple than a weakness, how can we do anything if we can’t even keep up.

Riku.4821:

Aether McLoud.1975:

No. Low mobility is supposed to be a mesmer weakness.

It is more of a cripple than a weakness, how can we do anything if we can’t even keep up.

I’d argue having almost no condition removal (i.e. warrior) is a much more crippling weakness. When it comes to weaknesses mesmers have it best (just like with pretty much everything else). And you don’t even need mobility to get away because you have stealth. Plus blink.

I don’t like the idea of it being a mantra because it’d have a cooldown. I think mantras are a design failure because the useful ones have cooldowns, the channel to prepare it should replace the cooldown otherwise what’s the point?

Seven out of eight classes have close to permanent speed boosts, and what mesmers are complaining about is out of combat speed. Invisibility doesn’t allow us to catch up with our friends in WvW, exploration, or dungeons.

What me irritates the most with the new patch even Ranger are gettin into the “speed squad party” with the Thief, the Elementalist and the ingineur. Now we have 4 Classes that can get spped passively or uphold swiftness buff with no effort but with the Mesmer ArenaNet seems to refuse to give him anything that would help to downsize that movement cripple handicap.

Currently I’m running with Centaur Runes because I cant stand my Mesmer without. But for this I’m wasting dozens of Attributes, crit chances, etc.

We basically already have a mantra of swiftness.
I use 6 runes of the centaur and the healing mantra. You get 12s of swiftness for the mantra channel + 2x 12s swiftness for every use of the heal mantra. The cooldown of the swiftness is 15s, but this is a bug as the cooldown should be 10s. You could also use some buffs for boon duration or trait for boon duration, so your swiftness will be up for 15s+ and you won’t get any trouble with the cooldown. Just a workaround … I still hope they will fix this bug.

Its something you have to get used to but i see it like this: Other professions waste a utility slot for swiftness alone. I waste nothing, I still can heal with the mantra(even while channeling another skill or while i dodge) and have all 4 utility slots left for useful stuff. Stop crying and think twice

gorma.3725:

Its something you have to get used to but i see it like this: Other professions waste a utility slot for swiftness alone. I waste nothin

You waste nothing? Dude, even with the most cheap solution (6x Ruby Orb) you waste a

120 Power
12% crit damage
84 Precision

With Centaur-Runes you get a +Power-Return of +165, but no Crit, no Precision. Let alone all the possible synergies you could reach with a decent rune-set.

Sylv.5324:

Seven out of eight classes have close to permanent speed boosts, and what mesmers are complaining about is out of combat speed. Invisibility doesn’t allow us to catch up with our friends in WvW, exploration, or dungeons.

The problem here is how other classes have too much access to runspeed, not us too little. At least IMO.

I’d rather buff than nerf if at all possible. It makes for a faster game, but that’s all right.

Well yes, my point would be that if such universal out-of-combat speed is necessary, buff the base runspeed buff you get out of combat, not per-class abilities.

Aether McLoud.1975:

I’d argue having almost no condition removal (i.e. warrior) is a much more crippling weakness. When it comes to weaknesses mesmers have it best (just like with pretty much everything else). And you don’t even need mobility to get away because you have stealth. Plus blink.

Wait, what? Warrior and no condition removal? Wut?

• [Heal] Mending: removes 2 conditions on use
• [Shout] Shake It Off: removes 1 condition on use
• [Signet] Signet Of Stamina: removes all conditions on use
• [Trait] Shrug It Off: triggers Shake It Off if you have more than 1 condition on you (30s CD)
• [Rune] Superior Rune Of The Soldier: all Shouts remove 1 condition

That’s “almost no condition removal” for you? o_O

I’m running a primarily support oriented build with…

• Shake It Off
• On My Mark
• For Great Justice
• Full set of Superior Runes Of The Soldier
• Vigorous Shouts

…and conditions are really the last thing I worry about.

Of course I do less damage than the fotm copypasta greatsword/bull rush/frenzy/100b warrior and I have less pure damage mitigation/immunity than a warrior running with stances. But as always, it’s a trade-off I’ve made because for my requirements this build gives me the best set of abilities I need.

On the other hand… mesmers don’t even have anything to trade for increased mobility since they don’t have the selection of viable options other classes have. Signet Of Inspiration is completely random and is certainly not “a reliable source of swiftness”, and Focus#4 pales in comparison to the ranger’s Warhorn#5 and the warrior’s Warhorn#4.

The biggest issue is that other classes have several options for swiftness/movement speed increases in their utility skills and their weapon skills, while mesmers only have one weapon skill which reliably grants that boon.

Heck, just take a look at the warrior’s Signet Of Rage – 30s swiftness on a 60s cooldown, with an easily reachable trait that brings the cooldown down to 48s. All and any applications of increased boon duration push this single skill into completely absurd dimensions.

Well I see some people already commented on that warrior comment before me haha. Well Out of combat speed is what we’d like most yes, and to the person telling us to think twice; why waste a whole runeset on those when we can have better sets + a passive movespeed buff or a mantra of swiftness.

Mephisto Loire.8207:

gorma.3725:

Its something you have to get used to but i see it like this: Other professions waste a utility slot for swiftness alone. I waste nothin

You waste nothing? Dude, even with the most cheap solution (6x Ruby Orb) you waste a

120 Power
12% crit damage
84 Precision

With Centaur-Runes you get a +Power-Return of +165, but no Crit, no Precision. Let alone all the possible synergies you could reach with a decent rune-set.

Yeah sure, you could see it like this. But thats just some numbers. I feel that essentially having one more skill is way more powerful. Don’t forget the bleeding part which is beneficial in almost any mesmer build focussed on duelling.

You are totally right on the synergy part thats the only part i dont like. But after all i think this is a great trade off.

gorma.3725:

Mephisto Loire.8207:

gorma.3725:

Its something you have to get used to but i see it like this: Other professions waste a utility slot for swiftness alone. I waste nothin

You waste nothing? Dude, even with the most cheap solution (6x Ruby Orb) you waste a

120 Power
12% crit damage
84 Precision

With Centaur-Runes you get a +Power-Return of +165, but no Crit, no Precision. Let alone all the possible synergies you could reach with a decent rune-set.

Yeah sure, you could see it like this. But thats just some numbers. I feel that essentially having one more skill is way more powerful. Don’t forget the bleeding part which is beneficial in almost any mesmer build focussed on duelling.

You are totally right on the synergy part thats the only part i dont like. But after all i think this is a great trade off.

But we would not need a trade off if you just had a movespeed passive or mantra.

gorma.3725:

We basically already have a mantra of swiftness.
I use 6 runes of the centaur and the healing mantra. You get 12s of swiftness for the mantra channel + 2x 12s swiftness for every use of the heal mantra.

I’ll have to try that again tonight. I could have sworn the centaur rune swiftness only proc’ed once, at the end of the mantra channel. Nothing on the two consequent uses of the mantra charges. I’m still running with the reflection heal at the moment.

cafard.8953:

gorma.3725:

We basically already have a mantra of swiftness.
I use 6 runes of the centaur and the healing mantra. You get 12s of swiftness for the mantra channel + 2x 12s swiftness for every use of the heal mantra.

I’ll have to try that again tonight. I could have sworn the centaur rune swiftness only proc’ed once, at the end of the mantra channel. Nothing on the two consequent uses of the mantra charges. I’m still running with the reflection heal at the moment.

Once every 15s. So using the mantra twice won’t get you 24s swiftness.

Riku.4821:

gorma.3725:

Mephisto Loire.8207:

gorma.3725:

Its something you have to get used to but i see it like this: Other professions waste a utility slot for swiftness alone. I waste nothin

You waste nothing? Dude, even with the most cheap solution (6x Ruby Orb) you waste a

120 Power
12% crit damage
84 Precision

With Centaur-Runes you get a +Power-Return of +165, but no Crit, no Precision. Let alone all the possible synergies you could reach with a decent rune-set.

Yeah sure, you could see it like this. But thats just some numbers. I feel that essentially having one more skill is way more powerful. Don’t forget the bleeding part which is beneficial in almost any mesmer build focussed on duelling.

You are totally right on the synergy part thats the only part i dont like. But after all i think this is a great trade off.

But we would not need a trade off if you just had a movespeed passive or mantra.

Not saying that i don’t wanna see some kind of swiftness passive, i was just telling that there are ways to be as mobile as any other profession. tbh i liked the fact that there were professions with high mobility and some without and even though the game offered me ways to achieve that kind of stuff which is not meant for my profession … for some trade off. I totally understand anyone who is saying that they want more mobility because other professions got more mobility too. But thats just one opinion like mine… i don’t like to have lots of professions which are able to do the same things.

The current iteration of Mantras is viable, just poorly done. Back when mantras were all single use and boring I even suggested they give them multiple charges. Not that us receiving them was a result of a post on gw2guru I’m sure, but I’m just saying that I liked the idea and I’m glad they did something similar.

The problem is that in my mind I was picturing a sort of spell preparation type mechanic. You take the time to charge up the spell and, in exchange, get multiple uses of a short CD utility.

Instead, they just split the effects in half and put them on a negligible CD, in effect doing nothing. Mantra of Pain isn’t two separate direct damage attacks so much as it’s a two hit combo you have to spend all of your time charging up.

Mantras need a set lower than average CD that occurs after every use of a ‘charge’ of the spell. That way each use can be as potent as a normal skill with the lower CD balanced by the need to charge it up after 2 or 3 uses. Ie MoRecovery needs a 10s CD after each activation, but should heal as much as a 15-20cd heal. That gives you enhanced healing at the start of a fight, due to your preparation, but the need to essentially daze yourself for 3-4 seconds to prepare the heal again is a severe detriment in long fights.

They should also consider a trait or perhaps just an innate effect during the charge-up. Such as MoPain channeling damage in the area, MoRecovery ticking healing, etc. that could add an almost bardic aspect to the skills during their charging.

Dastion.3106:

The current iteration of Mantras is viable, just poorly done. Back when mantras were all single use and boring I even suggested they give them multiple charges. Not that us receiving them was a result of a post on gw2guru I’m sure, but I’m just saying that I liked the idea and I’m glad they did something similar.

The problem is that in my mind I was picturing a sort of spell preparation type mechanic. You take the time to charge up the spell and, in exchange, get multiple uses of a short CD utility.

Instead, they just split the effects in half and put them on a negligible CD, in effect doing nothing. Mantra of Pain isn’t two separate direct damage attacks so much as it’s a two hit combo you have to spend all of your time charging up.

Mantras need a set lower than average CD that occurs after every use of a ‘charge’ of the spell. That way each use can be as potent as a normal skill with the lower CD balanced by the need to charge it up after 2 or 3 uses. Ie MoRecovery needs a 10s CD after each activation, but should heal as much as a 15-20cd heal. That gives you enhanced healing at the start of a fight, due to your preparation, but the need to essentially daze yourself for 3-4 seconds to prepare the heal again is a severe detriment in long fights.

They should also consider a trait or perhaps just an innate effect during the charge-up. Such as MoPain channeling damage in the area, MoRecovery ticking healing, etc. that could add an almost bardic aspect to the skills during their charging.

I totally agree. They should have left the spell preparation as it was (approx. 4 seconds) and lowered the CD times between the final-cast time and the next preparation time.

The traits don’t seem to help much aside from the 30-point Dueling trait that adds another use onto the mantra casts. I also personally think that the healing skill is still underpowered considering that the cooldown time is incredibly long when you take into account the preparation time and low amount it heals. Sure it’s instantaneous, but you have to cast it 3 times in a row (assuming you grabbed the trait) and it STILL doesn’t heal as much as any of the other healing skills.

Mantra builds are cool in concept but poorly done. Only thing about them that was done right was that you can cast readied mantras while you’re in the middle of prepping one.

A trait would be best.
“Gain 5 seconds of swiftness when a Mantra is used.”

Aether McLoud.1975:

Riku.4821:

Aether McLoud.1975:

No. Low mobility is supposed to be a mesmer weakness.

It is more of a cripple than a weakness, how can we do anything if we can’t even keep up.

I’d argue having almost no condition removal (i.e. warrior) is a much more crippling weakness. When it comes to weaknesses mesmers have it best (just like with pretty much everything else). And you don’t even need mobility to get away because you have stealth. Plus blink.

Oh look a primarily PvP player who thinks his closed off mode is the only one who matters and doesn’t understand how the rest of the game works.

Then again Warriors having no condition removal is a pretty funny thought so he probably doesn’t know how that mode works either.

add it to mantra of stability,it’d be great imo

Remove Mantra’s altogether.

They’re still clunky and slow. In PvE there are better options
In PvP they are unusable in a serious match.

If you feel they are good. Please show me in a recorded paid tournament just what you are doing so that myself and others may learn. As it stands any player that chooses to use mantras is seriously nerfing themselves just to have a watered down effect with slightly better timing and atrocious cast times.

Buffing 1 with additional effects like swiftness does not solve the issues.
Adding a new skill in does not solve the issues.
Replacing one just for swiftness shows how little people even care for Mantra’s when they choose the strongest Mantra to be replaced….