Guild Wars 2

As a mesmer I agree with this nerf, our stealth was a bit to much, and we arent the only stealth class.

Dude stop whining your making the mesmer community look bad, honestly this adjustment to PU is fine. We played for 2 years without it, we honestly don’t need a load of stealth to be a good duelling class.

Should have been down to +33%, and then buff base veil and mass invis durations.

But whatever, at least it’s finally going to be dealt with.

This change was 100% needed. PU was way too strong and was breaking mesmer.

Love this change
Yes, I main a mesmer, and PU is a was cheesy trait.

Still hoped they would replace it with an actual interesting trait.

Fancy Noob.8475:

Dude stop whining your making the mesmer community look bad, honestly this adjustment to PU is fine. We played for 2 years without it, we honestly don’t need a load of stealth to be a good duelling class.

Your right. I agree, we did manage on our own for not 2 but 3 years as the underdog class. Food for the thieves. Nail to warriors hammer & so on. But keep in mind, everyone got buffed (damage/sustain.) We got nerfed like choppoff limbs no buts about it. The o.5 buff increase we got on our AA damage is wayyyy under par vs all other classes. Compare to what was nerfed before that. Remember, our extra bounce on our GS number2 skill. Chopped off limb. & it has bin felt. The damage burst is wayyy down & feels limp. I understand that there threading carefully when it comes to mesmers, but geeez, come on. Leave us some meat for kitten sake. I’m fearing for the nerf on the chronomancer as well.

You’re being thick if you think this is going to do anything positive. As someone pointed out with the comparison on old PU vs 50% PU. All it does is revert it.

History questions:

1. When PU had its boons gutted by getting 2 more in the random mix, was it the condition or power build that benefitted the most?

2. Which out of the power and condition builds was hated the most regardless of nerd or not?

This change hits power builds hardest for WvW but the PU condition build is gonna be laughing and still be as effective as ever (solo roaming) because the root of the problem is the torch trait. We’ll still get condi PU hate, still get cries for nerf.

The worst part is 100% stealth duration almost made veil worth using, soon it will be a joke again.

Would have rather seen the boons changed to not be random. Makes counterplaying stealth a lot easier when random aegis doesn’t block your bomb.

Now I can actually see those Condi PU mesmers as they try to kill me with clones.

Cecilia.5179:

Now I can actually see those Condi PU mesmers as they try to kill me with clones.

This is the typical response why anything on Mesmer is nerfed.

Cecilia.5179:

Now I can actually see those Condi PU mesmers as they try to kill me with clones.

I will get an infarction if I laughed at you so I can’t do that, however I can let you know why I can’t do that.

It will shave a little bit of stealth off the build. They’re going to kill you the same as before, only difference is the power shatter roamers will now be made of better players who aren’t FotM.

So have fun with that and when the build is still as effective as ever in solo roaming I do hope you come back here, read a few more posts and agree that PU wasn’t the problem, it was the bonkers torch trait.

apharma.3741:

Cecilia.5179:

Now I can actually see those Condi PU mesmers as they try to kill me with clones.

I will get an infarction if I laughed at you so I can’t do that, however I can let you know why I can’t do that.

It will shave a little bit of stealth off the build. They’re going to kill you the same as before, only difference is the power shatter roamers will now be made of better players who aren’t FotM.

So have fun with that and when the build is still as effective as ever in solo roaming I do hope you come back here, read a few more posts and agree that PU wasn’t the problem, it was the bonkers torch trait.

I was being a little sarcastic, but since I main necro, being able to see them more often means more time to transfer condis onto them because I can target them.

I might be naive, but I believe The Pledge will be fixed in the patch.

Noss.4105:

I might be naive, but I believe The Pledge will be fixed in the patch.

I have to think it will, too. Seems little point in doing a balance patch with so many balance-affecting bugs still outstanding.

tobascodagama.2961:

Noss.4105:

I might be naive, but I believe The Pledge will be fixed in the patch.

I have to think it will, too. Seems little point in doing a balance patch with so many balance-affecting bugs still outstanding.

If that was the case then why did they nerf mirror blade when damage across the board was/is high. Why was mirror blade nerfed to stop stealth bursts yet pu is nerfed. I think the proof is in the pudding as far as nerfs go. Just nerf everything.

I bet when we still dookie on people with the nerf, People will be like “25% PU!!”

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
CHANGE PU ENTIRELY

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

I think this is a much better approach

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Not like 50% is much different than +1s for the prestige and decoy, it’s just off by .5 seconds. Leave it as is, buff veil to base 3s and buff MI to base 7 seconds, done.

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Except at that point, PU isn’t worthy of its GM slot. I’ll just be another Mistrust, incapable of competing with Bountiful Disillusionment or Chaotic Interference.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Except at that point, PU isn’t worthy of its GM slot. I’ll just be another Mistrust, incapable of competing with Bountiful Disillusionment or Chaotic Interference.

In what context? CI/BD is already better than PU imo. Prestige is the broken trait here… PU will always be taken in wvw roaming which is where it is best utilized. And even at +1s, it will still see play in PvP for those who want the extra defensive coverage.

I think PU at +50% is perfectly reasonable and still worthy of a GM slot. +100% is and had always been overkill with or without bugged Pledge.

That said it would be nice if the boons are reconsolidated down to just defensive ones (Aegis, Protection or Regeneration).

Embolism.8106:

I think PU at +50% is perfectly reasonable and still worthy of a GM slot. +100% is and had always been overkill with or without bugged Pledge.

That said it would be nice if the boons are reconsolidated down to just defensive ones (Aegis, Protection or Regeneration).

+1

Embolism.8106:

I think PU at +50% is perfectly reasonable and still worthy of a GM slot. +100% is and had always been overkill with or without bugged Pledge.

That said it would be nice if the boons are reconsolidated down to just defensive ones (Aegis, Protection or Regeneration).

“Oh no” But people seem to hate the fact that aegis is one of the boons available from PU..

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Quoted for truth.

(Or 33% would be the same as +1s on presige/decoy and veil if the base duration was increased to 3s and more to mass invis)

Edit: And I also agree with getting rid of the might/swiftness and only adding defensive boons (maybe throw vigour, stability and very short duration resistance with low proc chance into the mix).

So with the trait revamp what have we gained? Extend pu take it away. Mirror blade once can trait baked in now no option. Mantras were awesome. We are the only class that seems to stay stuck in a time loop, maybe that’s the reason for chrono.

As a PU user I have to say I’ve found it the best reliable trait for evening the odds against good thieves. Blinds help but aren’t as good as extended stealth. The 100% PU was fine, and didn’t make me or from what I could see from PVP other Mes OP. The main problem was the change made to the pledge, which means you could almost have at least one invisibility skill up at any time. I think just changing the pledge back to a straight up 20% (or 25%) torch skill reduction would alleviate the tears of non-mes and non-pu mes alike.

The real problem was introducing both 100% PU and the new pledge trait at the same time. The issue really boils down to high stealth frequency and stealth duration. The devs (unless they change the pledge as well) decided that duration is the problem. I would say the current stealth duration is only a problem when it is coupled with the pledge. The only time I’ve seen pure abuse of pledge with PU was in WvW. In PvP that build is pretty much useless, as sitting in stealth for long periods means your are not helping your team, fighting, or capping.

No.. 50% is fine.. lets keep the pledge as is.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Except at that point, PU isn’t worthy of its GM slot. I’ll just be another Mistrust, incapable of competing with Bountiful Disillusionment or Chaotic Interference.

Which was already a tough call before this nerf.

from a dungeon perspective its rly sad.
finally we were able to do all stealth parts without a thief. Sometimes some communication was needed, but it was always more or less barely possible.
now this is gone…

only good news i heared is dungeons gonna die anyway…

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Not like 50% is much different than +1s for the prestige and decoy, it’s just off by .5 seconds. Leave it as is, buff veil to base 3s and buff MI to base 7 seconds, done.

Everytime I see a post of you in one of those complaints about deserved nerfs on mesmer, I feel relieved I don’t have to do it myself. Thanks Fay

PU nerf deserved. Still gonna be played. Still gonna be strong. Although I’d like for aegis to be removed from PU.
PS Mistrust isn’t bad. 7 stacks of confusion instantly on my cheesy alt condi perplexity mesmer with one insta cast interrupt of 1200 range. That’s hella fine.

Kitta.3657:

PS Mistrust isn’t bad. 7 stacks of confusion instantly on my cheesy alt condi perplexity mesmer with one insta cast interrupt of 1200 range. That’s hella fine.

Since 5 of those 7 stacks are from the runes, that’s because Perplexity is “hella fine”, not Mistrust. 2 stacks for an interrupt is just bad compared to what you’ll get out of the clone from DE.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Kitta.3657:

PS Mistrust isn’t bad. 7 stacks of confusion instantly on my cheesy alt condi perplexity mesmer with one insta cast interrupt of 1200 range. That’s hella fine.

Since 5 of those 7 stacks are from the runes, that’s because Perplexity is “hella fine”, not Mistrust. 2 stacks for an interrupt is just bad compared to what you’ll get out of the clone from DE.

I agree with that, but I think it’s wrong to not consider synergy with runes/sigils when talking about traits current power. I mean, I’m all for a nerf to perplexity but in the current state, it makes Mistrust not a bad trait and since we’re talking about condi mesmer; why would you not choose the strongest aspect of it? 7 stacks of confusion with one insta cast 1200 range skill!! That is not to be overlooked. That will highly affect the result of a fight.

Classes are getting changed for the good of the game like they said on twitch, many classes are suffering nerfs and honestly they make allot of sense guys. I do not understand why anyone wants broken skills anyways, its not fun cheesing your way through pvp, or pve.

Kitta.3657:

I agree with that, but I think it’s wrong to not consider synergy with runes/sigils when talking about traits current power. I mean, I’m all for a nerf to perplexity but in the current state, it makes Mistrust not a bad trait and since we’re talking about condi mesmer; why would you not choose the strongest aspect of it? 7 stacks of confusion with one insta cast 1200 range skill!! That is not to be overlooked. That will highly affect the result of a fight.

The issue is that Mistrust is not providing synergy, not really.

You will get that 5 stacks regardless of whether you have Mistrust or not, and focusing on interrupts in no way impedes your ability to also get confusion off shatter, except as you say, at extreme range.

Except, that even with Mistrust and Perplexity both, the ability to stack conditions is too low to be useful without shatters also contributing condis. So an interrupt condi mesmer (we did the math in another thread, someone wanted to see what the very best we could do with Mistrust actually is) is still a shatter condi mesmer who also gets interrupts for confusion. And by the numbers, unless you interrupt multiple targets frequently, Mistrust cannot compete with DE, even in the same build.

That’s the crux of the issue, the stacks on Mistrust are just too low to compete with extra clones.

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Not like 50% is much different than +1s for the prestige and decoy, it’s just off by .5 seconds. Leave it as is, buff veil to base 3s and buff MI to base 7 seconds, done.

Everytime I see a post of you in one of those complaints about deserved nerfs on mesmer, I feel relieved I don’t have to do it myself. Thanks Fay

PU nerf deserved. Still gonna be played. Still gonna be strong. Although I’d like for aegis to be removed from PU.
PS Mistrust isn’t bad. 7 stacks of confusion instantly on my cheesy alt condi perplexity mesmer with one insta cast interrupt of 1200 range. That’s hella fine.

Eh hem, Dare I ask, Why would you like aegis to be removed?

I like how Anet is handling this. First people were asking for a PU nerf so they nerfed mirror blade and “fixed” mantras. Then people still kept asking for a PU nerf (how odd) and now they are nerfing PU. That being said, this change is good at least.

Can we get mirror blade back to the normal bounces now that PU is being handled?

Khyber.1284:

Eh hem, Dare I ask, Why would you like aegis to be removed?

Mesmers shouldn’t get passive blocks like that (we already have so much defense mechanisms regardless of the build), on stealth even less. It doesn’t make sense to me to allow mesmers to keep our stealth uptime this much with that long duration AND on top of that enemy has to pop that passive block in the incredibly short window between the stealth cycling. It’s incredibly easy to channel stealth on mesmer and do it consecutively; aegis makes it even easier to chain it.

It takes away sooooo much of the high risk/high reward play of the class. It would still keep it’s strong play while diminishing the cheesy part of it in my opinion.

I also agree with getting rid of aegis.

But instead also get rid of might/swiftness and put only defensive boons:
Regen, Protection, Vigour, Stability, extremely short duration Resistance.

Curunen.8729:

I also agree with getting rid of aegis.

But instead also get rid of might/swiftness and put only defensive boons:
Regen, Protection, Vigour, Stability, extremely short duration Resistance.

I’d argue you might as well leave it at protection 3s, regen 3s and resistance 2s. This means that power mesmers have a valid reason to pick PU, the defence it adds which while random has a good chance to be given. Now that the stealth has been gutted back to essentially +1s on most skills it would be nice to have the boons adjusted.

The problem I have with the balancing that’s being done is that it’s not small adjustments every couple of weeks to a month it’s these slashing adjustments which are 50% or more adjustments. It’s not balancing, it’kittenting it with the nerd hammer to send it completely out of meta for most popular builds.

I mean look at the reduction on ring of fire for elementalists, it’s a massive nerf not a slight adjustment to keep the essence of the skill which is area denial. You can literally walk over it all day now and not care too much.

kolompi.1287:

I like how Anet is handling this. First people were asking for a PU nerf so they nerfed mirror blade and “fixed” mantras. Then people still kept asking for a PU nerf (how odd) and now they are nerfing PU. That being said, this change is good at least.

Which, if you look back at the discussion threads from just after June 23, is exactly what most of us were predicting would happen.

(The nerf to Harmonious Mantras was NEVER justified, though, and I’m still pretty kitten ed sore about that one.)

50% seems fine to me. I rarely spend full duration in stealth on my power mesmer anyways.

Well i’m done with mesmer then.. Back to thief lololol good job anet

I’m not happy about it, personally.

Firstly, I will say that I never use stealth for “evil”.

I mainly use it to just avoid being ganked, by groups of level 80 roamers, while in EOTM (and less often, in “real” WvW), while I try to reach the commander.

…and I’m only doing WvW, because I dislike the group PVE in this game.

I’m not a PVPer, by choice – just because that is the only way I can join group content, while not feeling I have to conform to other players’ opinions, constantly, or skip>permastack>melee.

Personally, I would have given other (non heavy armour) classes more stealth; rather than removing stealth from Mesmer.

Then, pretty much everyone (apart from the tankiest) would have a chance to avoid combat, if they wanted to.

I guess I will see how it goes.

As I say, I’m currently only doing EOTM, so it wouldn’t be a huge step to just stop playing altogether, if I find it becomes too unbearable.

ETA: Was thinking about this and I’m tempted to say add a trait which extends stealth by 100% (or maybe more), but makes it impossible for the Mesmer to attack from any type of stealth except veil (as that is more for offensive group use).

That way, those of us who just take it purely for a quality of life type improvement, rather than to gank people, will still be OK.

Well….I like aegis with it…I see adding stability to our given boons to be….useless….especially with it’s duration.

Traveler runes if you don’t already have them will help when you combine it with what will be PU but it will be very noticeable on power builds or non pledge builds.

Mobility and stealth are the 2 most overpowered things in WvW “roaming”. So if you’re herded in one, try and compensate with the other. Centaur runes can also be useful but you probably want the mantra heal for it.

Guys learn math.

Pre patch:

3 sec stealth (prestige, decoy) became 4 sec. Veil 2+1 = 3 sec.

Mass invisibility was 5+1 sec = 6 secs (to short imo for elite, and that c ast time).

After the ultra boost patch:

Veil = 2*2 = 4 sec
Prestige/decoy = 3*2 = 6 secs. Even thief doenst have such longer triggers (except shadow refuge but pulses multiple times). Here is where the overpoweredness lies.
Mass invisibilty 5*2= 10 sec (to be honest, this was the best part of the boost, an elite with a long, but cool windup, finally feeling a bit viable.

Now with new balance update:

Veil= 2+1 sec = 3 sec
Decoy/Prestige: 3+1,5 sec = 4,5 sec (this is where all the ‘omg nerfed to oblivion’ people are so wrong). It’s STILL better then the earliest iteration. 0,5 seconds to be exact.

Mass invisibility: 5+2,5 seconds = 7,5 seconds. Ok (not that relative short 6s from launch, but not crazy either, i’m sure a lot of ppl will no longer use this elite now wich is a bit sad.

There you have the ‘facts’, unless Anet made a mistake on twitchcon.

Agree with Fay to increase base of veil and mass invis. The others are ok. The trait has to feel like it makes a diff (other then boons) and the 1,5 sec is a something grandmaster worthy on prestige/decoy.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Guys learn math.

Pre patch:

3 sec stealth (prestige, decoy) became 4 sec. Veil 2+1 = 3 sec.

Mass invisibility was 5+1 sec = 6 secs (to short imo for elite, and that c ast time).

After the ultra boost patch:

Veil = 2*2 = 4 sec
Prestige/decoy = 3*2 = 6 secs. Even thief doenst have such longer triggers (except shadow refuge but pulses multiple times). Here is where the overpoweredness lies.
Mass invisibilty 5*2= 10 sec (to be honest, this was the best part of the boost, an elite with a long, but cool windup, finally feeling a bit viable.

Now with new balance update:

Veil= 2+1 sec = 3 sec
Decoy/Prestige: 3+1,5 sec = 4,5 sec (this is where all the ‘omg nerfed to oblivion’ people are so wrong). It’s STILL better then the earliest iteration. 0,5 seconds to be exact.

Mass invisibility: 5+2,5 seconds = 7,5 seconds. Ok (not that relative short 6s from launch, but not crazy either, i’m sure a lot of ppl will no longer use this elite now wich is a bit sad.

There you have the ‘facts’, unless Anet made a mistake on twitchcon.

Agree with Fay to increase base of veil and mass invis. The others are ok. The trait has to feel like it makes a diff (other then boons) and the 1,5 sec is a something grandmaster worthy on prestige/decoy.

The Math was already done on the first page of the thread.

Vague Memory.2817:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Guys learn math.

Pre patch:

3 sec stealth (prestige, decoy) became 4 sec. Veil 2+1 = 3 sec.

Mass invisibility was 5+1 sec = 6 secs (to short imo for elite, and that c ast time).

After the ultra boost patch:

Veil = 2*2 = 4 sec
Prestige/decoy = 3*2 = 6 secs. Even thief doenst have such longer triggers (except shadow refuge but pulses multiple times). Here is where the overpoweredness lies.
Mass invisibilty 5*2= 10 sec (to be honest, this was the best part of the boost, an elite with a long, but cool windup, finally feeling a bit viable.

Now with new balance update:

Veil= 2+1 sec = 3 sec
Decoy/Prestige: 3+1,5 sec = 4,5 sec (this is where all the ‘omg nerfed to oblivion’ people are so wrong). It’s STILL better then the earliest iteration. 0,5 seconds to be exact.

Mass invisibility: 5+2,5 seconds = 7,5 seconds. Ok (not that relative short 6s from launch, but not crazy either, i’m sure a lot of ppl will no longer use this elite now wich is a bit sad.

There you have the ‘facts’, unless Anet made a mistake on twitchcon.

Agree with Fay to increase base of veil and mass invis. The others are ok. The trait has to feel like it makes a diff (other then boons) and the 1,5 sec is a something grandmaster worthy on prestige/decoy.

The Math was already done on the first page of the thread.

I guess the appropriate response to them would have also been learn to read =D

Needless to say I’m playing without PU for roaming now because it’s just not defensive enough vs the condition removal and healing you get from inspiration.

Bring on chronomancer and our channeled block with 25% movement speed allowing me to run from a situation going sour without getting pew pewed to death. Can’t wait to ditch the torch offhand.