So I’ve been hearing about how great these things are, and my Mesmer is almost level 80 so I’m pretty close to being able to give one a go myself. However, I’ve got a couple questions about what I should go with. First off, power vs condi, which is better/more easymode? I’m not looking for a build that requires a ton of skill, just something that’s complete cheese to go roflstomp people for a bit for when I’m bored of playing my Guard. Also, what would a decent setup even look like? I found this for a power build, is it any good?
Lastly, how easy to play/win with are these builds in actuality? Are they as overpowered as they’re made out to be?
I’d recommend a PU Condition build, specifically this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7flknpMtFqxRNcrNSpxY6cO6GSGQFlckyB-TFyCABAcBAwR9nU0Ns8+DZp8jinAgEHEgxUCSKAYmGB-w
It’s a very strong build. That being said, it’s not exactly overpowered and faceroll. You can and will get messed up if you’re not careful and you don’t know how to play it, but it is very forgiving.
Let me hunt down my playstyle guide for it and link you.
There’s my fairly completeish guide for it. It’s in a tPvP thread, but the playing guide remains largely the same no matter what.
i think travelers kinda gimps condi pu. Mesmer is too slow to roam without it.. So, not sure what the fix to this is.
i think travelers kinda gimps condi pu. Mesmer is too slow to roam without it.. So, not sure what the fix to this is.
… the fix is direct damage PU :p
ya.. you cant use sword anymore since the nerf.. or it would be silly. greatsword + ?
ya.. you cant use sword anymore since the nerf.. or it would be silly. greatsword + ?
Don’t get all worried about sword. It’s just fine . The ‘nerf’ only apply to zerg fights. If you are fighting in a zerg you shouldn’t use sword anyway.
This is what I use for WvW roaming right now. I’m average skill level despite lots of hours of play. I feel like I can win any 1v1 with this build (though I screw up and die sometimes – especially to good thieves). You can get around pretty quickly with Travelers runes and traited blinkittenep a focus in my inventory (which I keep open) so I can swap that in when running across the map.
I’m testing out a condi handling strategy of Arcane Thievery plus two generosity sigils. It’s an expensive experiment, but I like to keep tweaking.
it is a nerf vs anyone who isnt single target. hambow. ground spamming engis.. eles.. necros. or any fight that those professions are around. since they dont even try to kill targets they just throw things random.
This is what I use for WvW roaming right now. I’m average skill level despite lots of hours of play. I feel like I can win any 1v1 with this build (though I screw up and die sometimes – especially to good thieves). You can get around pretty quickly with Travelers runes and traited blinkittenep a focus in my inventory (which I keep open) so I can swap that in when running across the map.
I’m testing out a condi handling strategy of Arcane Thievery plus two generosity sigils. It’s an expensive experiment, but I like to keep tweaking.
The issue with this is that scepter adds nothing to this build. it will do pretty much 0 damage and would be 100x better with a functioning mainhand sword.
@zaxon Scepter is actually quite nice once you get the hang of it. The block is handy and the torment puts out quite a bit of damage even in a power build. Confusing images is tedious to start, but scales very well with power. Here’s a very short video that is mostly about might stacking.
At around 55 seconds, you can see me using confusing images. It’s ticking for 1100+ per hit (and can hit 5 times in 2 seconds and pierce up to 5 targets).
The auto-attack is slow and the damage is underwhelming – about 400-500 for the first two hits and about 800-1000 for Ether Clone. So I try not to use it.
The reason I started using scepter is because it’s our only ranged mainhand. You can see in the video how I try to avoid most damage by keeping distance. It’s taken a lot of hours of practice to get comfortable with scepter, but I disagree with your assessment that it adds 0 damage.
im not saying it produces 0 damage. im saying it isnt better then sword. but its your playstyle. go for it. sword is nerfed now anyway.
Fermi is asking for a PU roaming build. Pyro shared a PU condi build. I’m offering a PU power build. Osicat posted a couple of PU power options as well.
I think for the question of what is better or more easymode, the difference is that the PU condi builds rely on the opponent killing themselves (mostly) and the PU power builds rely on the phantasms taking down the opponent. I’ve played against PU condi builds several times, but I’ve never played it. I find I can beat them if I just pay attention (and particularly avoid the scepter block / torment).
Scepter and sword are just different. Scepter is definitely better than sword if you need to damage from 900 distance. Most PU power builds don’t use scepter. It might, however, be more “easymode” in this build because you just use the block and use confusing images. On sword for “easymode” perhaps you would only use blurred frenzy and ignore ileap.
To the OP, I would say that if you want to have very good escape options, the ability to kite par excellence and an armor set that allows you to tank some hits, go condi with Staff Scepter/Torch. If you want to be a force that can change the tide of a battle go power, but you will die more often. When my roaming group (usually 2-3 of us) encounter an outnumbered fight and one of them is a condi PU Mesmer, that is usually our last target because it has limited burst damage and group utility.
In general, when running power builds, I will eschew torch in favor of pistol or sword and rely on utilities for stealth. This means that you have to accept that if a zerg is chasing you its probably gg, but the added punch from a useful phantasm really helps bring down foes. In small groups I usually run a 10-20-30-10 build with GS Sw/Pistol and Mender’s to deal with condi. If I’m solo I have been experimenting with a Sword Pistol / Scepter Sword power build that is pretty neat. In a power build, I would not underestimate the usefulness of scepter which has some very good power attacks and also Debilitating Dissipation and Crippling Dissipation which actually apply only 1 damaging condition.
I think some of you don’t understand how to play PU Condi Mesmer properly. Scepter is for condition BURST if you have played PU mes for any length of time you should know how to do this.
To break it down, PU Condi mesmer is OP if you know how to play it, downside is any player who knows your build will realise he can’t win and should be able to disengage at will you will struggle to keep up with them / catch them unless you get extremely lucky with burn procs and have blink + a forward phase retreat available.
PU Power builds, primarily zerk builds can be extremely fun, if you run GS + Sword/Pistol + Blink you can chase most players down, you can burst at range and if you get the iLeap combo off can do some nice damage. However you will die a LOT and will take a ton of damage. Condition builds will absolutely destroy you even with the mantra cleanse + leamongrass food, but it’s way more fun than PU Conditions
Hmph. It actually sounds like a moderately difficult tossup. I do like being able to burst people and just rip them apart (and I really like the GS for Mesmer), but I’m not sure if I’d really be a good enough player to pull it off. That being said, conditions would/could be more powerful, but it might not fit my playstyle as well (I’m a bit more… direct). I think I might just give both a go (in spvp, perhaps?) and see which I like more.
Thanks for the advice!
PU condi sucks for anything besides “you can’t kill me”. Staff in a condi build has almost no significant condi focus, warlock hits like a wet noodle, and chaos storm is annoying at best, more of a defensive skill as a combo initiator. The clones can be annoying and add up, but don’t focus. Scepter / Torch can be a little better for focusing confusion and of course has a powerful torment stack, but again, it’s almost more of a an annoyance.
Power PU with Greatsword and Sword / Torch is basically, let’s say 75% of a power shatter build. You trade 25% of your possible damage from higher shattering, might stacks, and decreased attack cooldowns for much, much improved survivability and easier stealth stomps when aegis ticks. It’s not an incredibly difficult build to play even with full / mostly beserker gear if you use your defensive skills quickly and wisely.
The issue with power PU is that you can’t do outnumbered fights. You’re completely reliant on your phantasms to do damage, and even in a 2v1 your phantasms will get killed instantly by your opponents (assuming your opponents aren’t completely horrid). That eliminates all of your offense.
On the other hand, PU condition builds work fine in outnumbered fights as they function by actually letting your clones get killed. Since roaming in wvw is basically just outnumbered fight after outnumbered fight, PU condition functions better.
The issue with power PU is that you can’t do outnumbered fights. You’re completely reliant on your phantasms to do damage, and even in a 2v1 your phantasms will get killed instantly by your opponents (assuming your opponents aren’t completely horrid). That eliminates all of your offense.
On the other hand, PU condition builds work fine in outnumbered fights as they function by actually letting your clones get killed. Since roaming in wvw is basically just outnumbered fight after outnumbered fight, PU condition functions better.
I agree that power pu have a hard time in out numbered fights but I would counter that if you are not fighting vs bad players you would have a hard time wining a 1 v 2 or 3 anyway. vs bad or avg players power PU have the advantage of insta melting a zerker geared player and even the odds right away.
Pyro, I have the utmost respect for you, but when have you actually killed 2 good players with a condi build? Best case scenario they fail to kill you and walk away. I will readily admit that power has a much better chance of getting killed in a 1vX vs condi which is tougher and has more escape options… but a better chance of wining a 1vX, I don’t buy it. The main issue with power is that you can’t take off hand torch or you will be seriously kitten when it comes to generating DPS.
Kitten really? That wasn’t even a bad word…
you must be over bunkering your condi spec feaduin. condi are actually fairly high damage and can usually make kills in 1v2 situations pretty easy.
Pyro, I have the utmost respect for you, but when have you actually killed 2 good players with a condi build? Best case scenario they fail to kill you and walk away. I will readily admit that power has a much better chance of getting killed in a 1vX vs condi which is tougher and has more escape options… but a better chance of wining a 1vX, I don’t buy it. The main issue with power is that you can’t take off hand torch or you will be seriously kitten when it comes to generating DPS.
Plenty of times. You can do some significant condition burst if you know how. 5 stacks of torment, 8 bleeds, 5 confusion, and burning all going at once can take a lower hp class (thief/guard/ele) from halfish health to dead in a matter of seconds. It’s all about knowing how to play.
It may be easier to disengage from a fight with a PU condie than a PU power…but as a PU power in an outnumbered fight, you should never even come close to winning. Your phantasms should get slaughtered immediately, and you’ll have literally no offensive pressure whatsoever.
Power PU with Greatsword and Sword / Torch is basically, let’s say 75% of a power shatter build. You trade 25% of your possible damage from higher shattering, might stacks, and decreased attack cooldowns for much, much improved survivability and easier stealth stomps when aegis ticks. It’s not an incredibly difficult build to play even with full / mostly beserker gear if you use your defensive skills quickly and wisely.
Yup. I like Power PU because it works better with how I “roam.” I don’t just run by myself all the time and I’m not really looking for duels. Power PU is very useful in small group stuff since you can switch targets instantly and burst pretty effectively, and it’s easier to cripple (with Zerker) or interrupt (Mirror Blade + Diversion) enemies on demand. For even bigger engagements, I just swap in Veil and keep a Focus in my inventory in case I want to do pulls; the greatsword laser is pretty good for killing squishies who overextend or blow their cooldowns.
I’ve tried Condition PU and it was very, very easy to survive in one-on-one but my damage output seemed to be very much reliant on having the right runes. That’s a problem because without Trav runes, getting around is slow, and you’re kinda screwed if a sizable group is trying to gank you (though you do get Phase Retreat).
Power PU is definitely less durable but you still have reasonable mobility, stealth, and lots and lots of Protection to keep you alive. It’s not a fragile build. Especially since you don’t have to go full zerk to make it work.
PU Condition, PU Power… pshhhh just combine the 2 and run a hybrid build. if you like being aggressive ( Like I do ) You’ll love it. Takes the best from both builds and blends them into 1 package. Don’t expect super huge numbers ( unless you time your attacks perfectly, the big burst come from 2 or more sources, maxes out at just over 2k power w/o Might) but you can expect high surviveability VIA high armor 2700-2800+, super high HP 22-24k,and plenty of condition cleanse ( torch trait, mantra of resolve & Arcane thievery if you choose to run it ) all this with constant condition pressure ( roughly 900-1100 condition damage ). I eat condition PU Mesmers for breakfast and Zerker PU just doesn’t have the sustain. Plus running traveler runes means you can chase people down. To each their own, it’s not a play style for everyone but I personally think it’s one of our best roaming builds in a WvW setting.
Any other viable choice other than Rune of Perplexity in a PU condition Build?
Any other viable choice other than Rune of Perplexity in a PU condition Build?
Sure. You can use runes of undead for sure, they’re always a solid choice. Runes of tormenting are decent, but I’d recommend something else since your torment is already long duration.
Runes of krait are another option, but the proc-on-elite usage of it isn’t the best, since you want to use MI defensively. It does make your bleeds last crazily long though.
Lastly, you can use runes of balthazar if you want to get more into the burning side of things.
PU Condition, PU Power… pshhhh just combine the 2 and run a hybrid build. if you like being aggressive ( Like I do ) You’ll love it. Takes the best from both builds and blends them into 1 package. Don’t expect super huge numbers ( unless you time your attacks perfectly, the big burst come from 2 or more sources, maxes out at just over 2k power w/o Might) but you can expect high surviveability VIA high armor 2700-2800+, super high HP 22-24k,and plenty of condition cleanse ( torch trait, mantra of resolve & Arcane thievery if you choose to run it ) all this with constant condition pressure ( roughly 900-1100 condition damage ). I eat condition PU Mesmers for breakfast and Zerker PU just doesn’t have the sustain. Plus running traveler runes means you can chase people down. To each their own, it’s not a play style for everyone but I personally think it’s one of our best roaming builds in a WvW setting.
Could we see a link to your build please? I’m curious as to your gear setup.
For the last 2 weeks, I have switched between GS/Staff shatter and Power PU.
Power PU with GS/Staff is actually pretty good. You still have all the burst from GS, but also you can play more hybrid and defensively with the staff.
About Condi/Power PU, I think it all comes down to your playstyle. If you’re more an aggressive player and want to base the kills in bursts, you’ll find condi PU awkward.
Personally, I find Power PU more useful when roaming. Much faster to solo camps, quicker to travel, and much better when you join small groups.
It’s the same as the standard 4 4 6 0 0 PU Build. The weapons and gear is what makes it Hybrid.
Power base is 1697, bloodlust will boost your power to 1947 + wvw buff = 2047
Condition damage base 940 + wvw buff = 1040. I play around with the first trait in domination sometimes I’ll run Sig Mastery and bring boonshare or Signet of Domination for the added condition damage / stun. I’ll swap out blink for arcane Thievery ( vs condition heavy classes ) really the combinations are endless it all comes down to how you want to play it. Feel Free to mix up the armor also, I have a few sets so I play around with them to see which one I like the most. Currently running 2 Celestial, 2 Assassins 2 Rabid, This gives me more Critical Chance 46-47% but I loose some Critical Damage 198% vs 202% everything else is pretty much the same
(edited by Syprus Soulslayer.1640)
Thanks Spyrus, I’ll fiddle around with that and see how it works.
I never understood why people use celestial in a PU build. I know you get a decent amount of regen, but I feel like the healing power is always a waste and you could boost the other stats a little bit by trying to min/max. :-/
if you bunker a condi pu you wont kill anything and you wont die. you will just hop around with your team and high five the people who carry you. seems silly
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npMtNqxKNcrNyqxY6W2ZlTtUp3I7AA-TFyCABpobAgLAwxHEAfU/Z59Ho4JAklyvxUCSKAYmGB-w maybe would try this one.. was
was using 0 20 30 20 0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-OKwDp-TYM
1) The idea is to spread the damage VIA Conditions and Raw Power
2) Celestial is awesome because it evens out other stats are are required in order for this set up to work such as, Toughness, Vitality, Precision, Ferocity, Condition Damage, Power, the healing power is just an added bonus with 3 clones / phantasms up you’ll be regenerating over 1000 hp per tick with the signet heal that’s not including the regeneration buffs.
3) Survivability we all know how tanky and survivable Condition builds are but they do NO damage. By using Celestial you’ll have enough base power to actually be able to hurt your opponents. Add in Travelers runes and you’ll be extremely mobile both in and out of combat.
4) It works, I’ve tested it and trust me Celestial with this weapon combo is very effective.
5) by picking “other” gear sets you loose out. I use to run this with a full set of Rabid, Celestial weapons, Celestial ring, Celestial amulet, zerker accessories, zerker ring and a soldiers back piece and by switching to Celestial I gained a ton. Plug it into build editor and see for yourself.
Thanks for this thread, all. I’d love to run perplexity runes in a PU condition build, but I can’t seem to get rid of my travelers—I feel so slow without them.
Ye, once you go traveller it’s somewhat hard to switch to something else.
Is Crippling Dissipation really worth it? I have a build in mind which is based on Osicat’s Napalm Cat.
0/6/6/2/0. The build will use confusion on clone death then harmonious mantra to give more charges to heal mantra and cleansing matra. This will provide a very good condition cleanse and a good thing about mantras is that they can be cast while in stealth.
This is the build i run for solo roaming. It uses traveler’s for speed, boon duration, condi duration. It also uses giver’s weapons for higher condi duration. I know it’s not stacked in condi damage but if everyone else runs the -condi duration your condi damage isn’t doing much anyways. Build is what some people would call “cheesy” but wvw is packed full of cheese anyways so whatever lol.
I have been using 0 6 6 2 0 with fury pistol and de in dueling line along with menders purity. The condition removal is the same as the torch but you have a stronger phantasm in the duelist. All power gear. Sitting at 2k power 62 crit chance and 220 crit damage. The utilities are decoy blink and veil. The veil utility can change to whatever is needed. The ibeserker cripples and the loss of cripple on clone death is really minor IMO.
Travelers runes for much needed speed!
Oh why do all mesmer’s want to go PU as a long time mesmer i hate PU builds its one reason i find it hard to get a fight one on one in WvW and if i do and win i get messages like oh a PU mesmer how original well i never have or will run PU far better builds out there.
For roaming pu is fine. All the grief comes from condition thieves, warriors that regen and use weapon skills to disengage the list goes on and on. Plenty of cheese builds in wvw by all classes; and why cheese anyways? The cheese callers are the ones upset at way pointing. Not saying use pu for spvp or pve but for roaming it is a strong option if not the strongest option. Sure counter with shatter but sadly in this meta of wvw all other builds are inferior. (Roaming Zerg stand point). For zerging helps you stay alive we have few options for bag tagging so staying alive by default offers more bags.
On a side not wvw is not a 1v1 platform make an arena to do that so it produces what ur looking for.
Oh why do all mesmer’s want to go PU
Because it gives you a lot of access to Protection, and Protection is pretty awesome. The Aegis and Regen aren’t half bad, either (though in my experience Regen is mostly great because it’s giving you more Protection). Light-armor classes going for some degree of death-by-attrition rather than just burst all the time benefit greatly from something like that.
if i do and win i get messages like oh a PU mesmer how original well
Shrug. People cry about all sorts of things. Many don’t understand what PU is beyond just “a mesmer who can use stealth” or “a mesmer that doesn’t die immediately when I try to burst them.” Same as people thinking they’re fighting a condition build just because they end up with some bleeds or burns on them, or people acting like warriors are flat-out immune to CC.
Oh why do all mesmer’s want to go PU as a long time mesmer i hate PU builds its one reason i find it hard to get a fight one on one in WvW and if i do and win i get messages like oh a PU mesmer how original well i never have or will run PU far better builds out there.
“Far better builds”? For roaming? Like what? Shatter is very good but if you want to survive when a guild/zerg comes rolling over you the evasion of PU is better. Phantasm? HA! Dont make me laugh. A Phantasm build get crushed if the enemy roamers arent complete idiots and is worthless against a zerg. Lockdown? Yeah… Most roamers are designed with high mobility to counter that.
Of course its a cheezy build. All roaming builds are made to win a fight and if they meet a roamer that’s better (or a group/zerg), they’re also designed to survive. PU builds are appreciated because they balance this perfectly, even if other builds are better at certain situations. Pick any class and you’ll find that cheeze build. Theives, Warriors, Necros, everyone got them.
Well except Ranger.
Ranger got nothing but a kittened pet.
(edited by Dawdler.8521)
Oh why do all mesmer’s want to go PU as a long time mesmer i hate PU builds its one reason i find it hard to get a fight one on one in WvW and if i do and win i get messages like oh a PU mesmer how original well i never have or will run PU far better builds out there.
Everyone runs PU because they can’t play mesmer without using a build that carries them.
I’m sorry, I meant it’s because “PU is what’s viable and because it’s the only way a mesmer can roam effectively”.
Something along those lines I’ve been told.
Oh why do all mesmer’s want to go PU as a long time mesmer i hate PU builds its one reason i find it hard to get a fight one on one in WvW and if i do and win i get messages like oh a PU mesmer how original well i never have or will run PU far better builds out there.
Everyone runs PU because they can’t play mesmer without using a build that carries them.
I’m sorry, I meant it’s because “PU is what’s viable and because it’s the only way a mesmer can roam effectively”.
Something along those lines I’ve been told.
Show me a video of you surviving a 1v4 with at least 1 competent thief in a shatter/phantasm build.
Ah right, that’s not a thing that can happen, because phantasm builds are pidgeon-holed into 1v1 due to mechanics, and shatter builds are far more effective with support.
The PU buildset is the only spec mesmer has that is efficient at handling outnumbered fights, and solo roaming in WvW is just one outnumbered fight after another.
Everyone runs PU because they can’t play mesmer without using a build that carries them.
So what you’re saying is that a good build inherently makes the game easier than a bad one? I am shocked and appalled.
I know this is PU discussion, but when roaming with a small group, I find being a blanket daze mesmer is so much more useful when roaming than any other build. Daze is completely overpowered to me, and the lockdown with a mesmer(asuran especially with blanket Technobabble) is terrific. I use Moa because it removes a target from the fight long enough for your party to lock down a called target covered with blanket dazes to ensure a kill especially if you follow the moa up with some fears.
I use mantra of recovery for the 0 cast time condi removals which often save me from immobilize set ups. I use sword main hand when roaming for i leap. Not for the immobilize or even the activate, but because it spawns a clone close enough to them often enough to get a quick diversion proc. It helps set up shatter combos without having the clones on dodge trait.
This build is all about setting up kills for your party, but it’s pretty effective at 1v1 too. Scepter/ Pistol is better than Staff to me simply for the on demand and consistant daze/ stun. It adds another melee ranged parry which is important for all thieves you’ll fight. I keep a staff in pocket too, but staff is mostly for chaos armor stacking and the RNG daze proc or standing in Chaos Storm against thieves. Removing boons with your diversion really helps to mitigate stability or protection nonsense and set up your party’s burst more effectively to help finish someone while you have someone else moa’d.
Change MoD for Arcane Thievery if you need to(mostly against Condi Thieves so you can swap their immob stacking and gtfo).
It stacks might pretty well with runes of traveller/ sigil of battle/ and interrupt might. So with full sigil of bloodlust, wvw bloodlust, guard stacks and might, you can be at around a comfortable 2800-2900 power with decent crit damage and tankiness. All the might stacking gives you decent condi damage as well which makes scepter not too terrible.
(edited by Shinoobi.1259)
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