Guild Wars 2

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

But think about it. When have you actually really been able to effectively use iwarden besides in Zerg fights and by help of something like crippling dissipation? It needs control options to be of any use when used for fightin 1 vs 1.

iWarden gives amazing phantasm mesmer controll. It eats all staff/scepter range spam, it drives off sword using mesmers, it strikes all melee clones on you if you cuddle your iWarden, and for all ranged phantasms/clones you just drop your curtain at the wardens feet and pull them all into it.

1 phantasm to completely shut down an enemy mesmer. I use it all the time.

Menace, you dont think much of iwarden, thats clear. But youre wrong.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Actually, it is false when you guys say that you have constantly appreciated iWarden in 1 vs 1. the only message i’m getting from this statement is the idea that you guys do too much of 1 vs 1 in tight pvp arenas. In WvW, there are usually more kiting than stayin still, so I fail to see how you would constantly duck behind a iWarden if you are trying to chase/defeat an enemy.

Actually, I don’t PvP at all and when I have I have done so on Necro. As stated already iWarden was fantastic for standing in. Reflects or untraited projectile destruction, melee might not run away form it but they would get hit while they try and attack you.

The Warden now moves with the enemy that is super. NOT. You are still going to have to immobilize someone to get a full swing worth of damage on someone but NOW we have to constantly move to use it as a reflective wall. Your idea of giving it immobilize as part of the attack is OP. This movement is nothing but a joke.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Actually, it is false when you guys say that you have constantly appreciated iWarden in 1 vs 1. the only message i’m getting from this statement is the idea that you guys do too much of 1 vs 1 in tight pvp arenas. In WvW, there are usually more kiting than stayin still, so I fail to see how you would constantly duck behind a iWarden if you are trying to chase/defeat an enemy.

As for Freedan. Your idea is brilliant. I just hope they make it so that the iwarden actually catches up to an enemy instead of trying to chase like 2 seconds after the opponent decides to run.

Oh, another important part of the iWarden’s stationary functionality was its reliability to stay alive. This made clone on death traits easy to apply (esp with on dodge) because you could easily have two phantasms up to force the swift destruction of the right (only) clone. Now with iWarden running off to die (iDefender anyone), clone on death tactics have grown weaker when using focus.

Um.. reason I think not much of warden in this state. It is not very useful in a situation in wvw where half the time your opponent is thinking of ways to kite and use his/her surroundings. Unless you have something like crippling dissipation equipped, i fail to see how you would make the most out of it. I love iwarden myself, especially if it is traited, but I think it could be a bit better than depending on like extra skills to make it’s attacks/reflects land and having another extra trait in another extra traitline to make it’s success somewhat better.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Um.. reason I think not much of warden in this state. It is not very useful in a situation in wvw where half the time your opponent is thinking of ways to kite and use his/her surroundings. Unless you have something like crippling dissipation equipped, i fail to see how you would make the most out of it. I love iwarden myself, especially if it is traited, but I think it could be a bit better than depending on like extra skills to make it’s attacks/reflects land and having another extra trait in another extra traitline to make it’s success somewhat better.

You are correct. They are indeed trying to kite you. DON’T LET THEM. They are always trying to use terrain, a stationary iWarden WAS terrain. You made your own terrain with him cause you could hide behind/in him.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Um.. reason I think not much of warden in this state. It is not very useful in a situation in wvw where half the time your opponent is thinking of ways to kite and use his/her surroundings. Unless you have something like crippling dissipation equipped, i fail to see how you would make the most out of it. I love iwarden myself, especially if it is traited, but I think it could be a bit better than depending on like extra skills to make it’s attacks/reflects land and having another extra trait in another extra traitline to make it’s success somewhat better.

Of course it could be better. It could be a big button titled “I WIN” which is what you seem to be pushing for.

Depending on extra skills/traits is part of the game. It’s called build synergy and it’s a factor of every profession and every build. It’s exactly the same concept as having to drop a null field or boon strip to get rid of stability before you throw an interrupt.

I’ve had this same problem in WvW. The warden spawns and does not attack for a few seconds, even when cast on a downed player (non-moving target).

Simple fix: make warden attack while moving.

Bad fix! Don’t you mess with my favorite phantasm, i need him! Now become a good fix and fix yourself!

Let’s just focus on the bug first, get the thing to actually attack and not bug out lol then see if it works. It works imo, it doesn’t affect the original playstyle at all i believe. when it’s not doing anything, it doesnt matter whether it moves or not. And any hardhitting aoe will kill it anyway after/during the first melee chain after spawn, so running after its enemy doesn’t make it any more useless/vulnerable imo

iWarden was fine before when it was stationary. It was also very effective 1v1 when doing a curtain pull – warden – immobilize – blade fury, although the nerf to curtain pull made it a little less effective because it sometimes telegraphed your intentions to an experienced opponent.

I should attack as soon as it spawns (because it should spawn in range of its target), then chase its target if it moves, then attack again and so on. Right now the warden sometimes just stands there doing nothing right next to the target and gets killed by AOE before doing any damage.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Actually, it is false when you guys say that you have constantly appreciated iWarden in 1 vs 1. the only message i’m getting from this statement is the idea that you guys do too much of 1 vs 1 in tight pvp arenas. In WvW, there are usually more kiting than stayin still, so I fail to see how you would constantly duck behind a iWarden if you are trying to chase/defeat an enemy.

As for Freedan. Your idea is brilliant. I just hope they make it so that the iwarden actually catches up to an enemy instead of trying to chase like 2 seconds after the opponent decides to run.

That is not false.

Whenever the enemy uses projectiles, I, and some others can very well use the warden.

Even against lomg ow warriors, it protects you from pin down and all theres left to do is dodge the exploding arrow.

I actually use focus for tpvp with shatter, the warden is really usefull for cleavage/projectile destroying vs downed targets too.

Just because you cant use a warden doesnt mean others cant :P

I noticed something funny (sad): when you cast the iWarden on a gate (WvW) it sometimes Wander (see what I did here?) around and starts attacking stuff/guards inside the keep/tower instead of the gate.

Change it back to how it was, stationary warden was so much better

I don’t understand how people think that a moving warden (if it were to work properly) wouldn’t out perform a static one, especially in WvW.

A static warden placed on a ranged player is easily dodged and ignored putting your “shield” on instant 20s cd. I myself have done this everyday, and honestly have extremely little trouble with mesmers using a focus in WvW. Even the focus pull is mostly easily predicted and dodged.

If the warden were to work properly, the ranged target you place it on would constantly have to reposition, making the warden infinitely more useful.

PvE, the warden being static is next to useless once its target takes more than 2 steps away from it unless you plan on range camping inside it. While stacking, you are inside the warden’s bubble anyway, and if you were to instead choose to spawn it on the ranged mobs, the same logic as WvW applies. If the mob were to move, the warden would follow increasing its reflect chance/uptime.

In games like gw2 where combat is so dynamic, dynamic skills will always outshine static ones.

I’m very happy that at least this initiative has been set in motion, granted disappointed that it isn’t working properly, but strongly believe that if it were to work properly, it’d be a drastic improvement.

And what themenaceoftheseventhdimension is suggesting is basically a “kill everything around me” button. No thank you.

Kazhiel.8194:

Change it back to how it was, stationary warden was so much better

moving iWarden is waaaaay better, I’ve also noticed that it moves exactly to get in range for the attack which has slightly more range than melee attacks, so in PvE it doesnt get killed by melee cleaves, so its perfect… as soon as they fix the attack bug that is

DeathReign.7821:

I don’t understand how people think that a moving warden (if it were to work properly) wouldn’t out perform a static one, especially in WvW.

A static warden placed on a ranged player is easily dodged and ignored putting your “shield” on instant 20s cd. I myself have done this everyday, and honestly have extremely little trouble with mesmers using a focus in WvW. Even the focus pull is mostly easily predicted and dodged.

If the warden were to work properly, the ranged target you place it on would constantly have to reposition, making the warden infinitely more useful.

I believe the others are saying that when the warden is static, they only have to stack on top of it to negate all projectiles. But when your “shield” is constantly chasing the ranged player, you constantly have to run after your shield in order to stack on him. With a static warden, I can just stand within his whirls and no matter how the ranged target repositions, he wouldn’t be able to hit me.

PS: though I have to admit I like the new warden better. Now when bosses wander around my warden is actually useful for more than 1 attack cycle instead of whirling like a kitten on the other side of the room…

Reason I don’t like it and very much appreciated the old version is that ranged fighters kite you. Before you could place your Wardens and just stay in those locations thus you didn’t have to follow the ranger fighter and they could not kite you unless they wanted to just run away. Now we have to chase our wardens for the reflects thus the kiters can now kite us more easily.

Another issue with the moving to attack is iWarden was our BEST attack against innaniment objects like gates or turrets or sorts. Ever since they changed out illusions to switch to the nearist target (PC) if the original target goes stealth or something that drops target instead of just standing and waiting for them they will attack something else. It would seem that gates and such are not high enough priority even if they are the original targets and the wardens run after something else. Even without all the bugs the warden NOW has (it worked fine before, you know don’t fix what ain’t broke) they would have to rewrite the AI for the illusions AGAIN to make this not suck for taking out turrets and stuff and even if they attempt to do this you kitten well know they will f something else up in the process.

Cassiel.8762:

DeathReign.7821:

I don’t understand how people think that a moving warden (if it were to work properly) wouldn’t out perform a static one, especially in WvW.

A static warden placed on a ranged player is easily dodged and ignored putting your “shield” on instant 20s cd. I myself have done this everyday, and honestly have extremely little trouble with mesmers using a focus in WvW. Even the focus pull is mostly easily predicted and dodged.

If the warden were to work properly, the ranged target you place it on would constantly have to reposition, making the warden infinitely more useful.

I believe the others are saying that when the warden is static, they only have to stack on top of it to negate all projectiles. But when your “shield” is constantly chasing the ranged player, you constantly have to run after your shield in order to stack on him. With a static warden, I can just stand within his whirls and no matter how the ranged target repositions, he wouldn’t be able to hit me.

PS: though I have to admit I like the new warden better. Now when bosses wander around my warden is actually useful for more than 1 attack cycle instead of whirling like a kitten on the other side of the room…

To the best of my knowledge, having the iWarden spin in between you and the ranged player would reflect any projectiles they fire at you. You don’t have to be in the bubble to have it reflect. Maybe I’m thinking more 1vX since 1v1s are so kittening rare in WvW, but putting a chasing warden on a ranged character means ranged character has to constantly reposition, giving you more breathing space and time to deal with melee aggressors. Standing in a static warden is cleave fodder for melee players, and limits your movement in combat against ranged.

Maybe I play differently from everyone else, but I just can’t see how having to limit my movement by camping next to my warden would outperform having it follow its target.

Hexxen.7216:

Reason I don’t like it and very much appreciated the old version is that ranged fighters kite you. Before you could place your Wardens and just stay in those locations thus you didn’t have to follow the ranger fighter and they could not kite you unless they wanted to just run away. Now we have to chase our wardens for the reflects thus the kiters can now kite us more easily.

Another issue with the moving to attack is iWarden was our BEST attack against innaniment objects like gates or turrets or sorts. Ever since they changed out illusions to switch to the nearist target (PC) if the original target goes stealth or something that drops target instead of just standing and waiting for them they will attack something else. It would seem that gates and such are not high enough priority even if they are the original targets and the wardens run after something else. Even without all the bugs the warden NOW has (it worked fine before, you know don’t fix what ain’t broke) they would have to rewrite the AI for the illusions AGAIN to make this not suck for taking out turrets and stuff and even if they attempt to do this you kitten well know they will f something else up in the process.

Again, maybe it’s my play style, but when rangers and the sort try to kite me, I just run the other direction. I usually have other people to focus on anyway. Standing in your warden won’t solve anything; you can range them till they decide to kite again (eventually out of your warden’s bubble) or sit there like a sitting duck and give them the freedom of movement and position. Your position will be static, it will not change, and it’ll be easily read. You can’t chase nor can you run.

As for your second point, that isn’t a problem with the warden moving, it’s more a problem with how illusions determine their targets in general. If it worked properly, I don’t see how wardens walking would affect it killing inanimate objects. It doesn’t have to move if it’s in range if its target.

The board really seems about 50/50 on if you like this or not. Simply put it has given me yet another reason to just not play anymore. I was so looking forward to the various updates to give me a reason to play again too. O well. ^^

Tbh I would rather see the iwarden getting 150% hp buff and having it reverted back. Atm it just dies almost instant after he launched his attack, or well, if he’s even able to pull of the full attack…

Hexxen.7216:

The board really seems about 50/50 on if you like this or not. Simply put it has given me yet another reason to just not play anymore. I was so looking forward to the various updates to give me a reason to play again too. O well. ^^

This might sound abrasive and I apologize if it does, but I don’t think that your being bored with the game has much to do with the effectiveness of whether the warden moves or not.

It sounds like a personal problem, and not one that you should really pin on the iWarden.

BlackDevil.9268:

Tbh I would rather see the iwarden getting 150% hp buff and having it reverted back. Atm it just dies almost instant after he launched his attack, or well, if he’s even able to pull of the full attack…

150% hp buff would be beneficial regardless of moving or not. It dies to some bosses/mobs in one hit even if it is static.

DeathReign.7821:

Hexxen.7216:

The board really seems about 50/50 on if you like this or not. Simply put it has given me yet another reason to just not play anymore. I was so looking forward to the various updates to give me a reason to play again too. O well. ^^

This might sound abrasive and I apologize if it does, but I don’t think that your being bored with the game has much to do with the effectiveness of whether the warden moves or not.

It sounds like a personal problem, and not one that you should really pin on the iWarden.

On top of being bored they are yet again killing one of my favorite skills. So yeah it gives me more reason not to play. ^^ ON top of being bored they are making the mesmer less awesome (in my opinion of course)

The biggest problem right now is the warden is bugged to all hell. The new and improved warden will never ever spin if the target is moving. It also doesn’t spin at all against some stationary targets. For example, if you summon warden on an orrian guard turret in arah, it will no longer reflect any projectiles — it just stands there and dies in about 2 seconds. Pre-patch, the warden would kill 1, maybe 2 turrets easy.

Also if the warden ends up in the middle of Giganticus Lupicus (either because it appeared there or because GL moved slightly), the warden will stay still but still won’t attack, so no reflects for you.

DeathReign.7821:

Cassiel.8762:

DeathReign.7821:

I don’t understand how people think that a moving warden (if it were to work properly) wouldn’t out perform a static one, especially in WvW.

A static warden placed on a ranged player is easily dodged and ignored putting your “shield” on instant 20s cd. I myself have done this everyday, and honestly have extremely little trouble with mesmers using a focus in WvW. Even the focus pull is mostly easily predicted and dodged.

If the warden were to work properly, the ranged target you place it on would constantly have to reposition, making the warden infinitely more useful.

I believe the others are saying that when the warden is static, they only have to stack on top of it to negate all projectiles. But when your “shield” is constantly chasing the ranged player, you constantly have to run after your shield in order to stack on him. With a static warden, I can just stand within his whirls and no matter how the ranged target repositions, he wouldn’t be able to hit me.

PS: though I have to admit I like the new warden better. Now when bosses wander around my warden is actually useful for more than 1 attack cycle instead of whirling like a kitten on the other side of the room…

To the best of my knowledge, having the iWarden spin in between you and the ranged player would reflect any projectiles they fire at you. You don’t have to be in the bubble to have it reflect.

That’s true, but with a warden between you and the ranged player, the ranged player just has to adjust his angle and he can hit you with projectiles. With you IN the warden, you have 360 degrees projectile reflection.

draconx.3102:

The biggest problem right now is the warden is bugged to all hell. The new and improved warden will never ever spin if the target is moving. It also doesn’t spin at all against some stationary targets. For example, if you summon warden on an orrian guard turret in arah, it will no longer reflect any projectiles — it just stands there and dies in about 2 seconds. Pre-patch, the warden would kill 1, maybe 2 turrets easy.

Also if the warden ends up in the middle of Giganticus Lupicus (either because it appeared there or because GL moved slightly), the warden will stay still but still won’t attack, so no reflects for you.

Yeah that’s the whole thing. It’s just really kittenty that it’s bugged.

Hopefully they’ll come up with a hot fix.

Cassiel.8762:

DeathReign.7821:

Cassiel.8762:

DeathReign.7821:

I don’t understand how people think that a moving warden (if it were to work properly) wouldn’t out perform a static one, especially in WvW.

A static warden placed on a ranged player is easily dodged and ignored putting your “shield” on instant 20s cd. I myself have done this everyday, and honestly have extremely little trouble with mesmers using a focus in WvW. Even the focus pull is mostly easily predicted and dodged.

If the warden were to work properly, the ranged target you place it on would constantly have to reposition, making the warden infinitely more useful.

I believe the others are saying that when the warden is static, they only have to stack on top of it to negate all projectiles. But when your “shield” is constantly chasing the ranged player, you constantly have to run after your shield in order to stack on him. With a static warden, I can just stand within his whirls and no matter how the ranged target repositions, he wouldn’t be able to hit me.

PS: though I have to admit I like the new warden better. Now when bosses wander around my warden is actually useful for more than 1 attack cycle instead of whirling like a kitten on the other side of the room…

To the best of my knowledge, having the iWarden spin in between you and the ranged player would reflect any projectiles they fire at you. You don’t have to be in the bubble to have it reflect.

That’s true, but with a warden between you and the ranged player, the ranged player just has to adjust his angle and he can hit you with projectiles. With you IN the warden, you have 360 degrees projectile reflection.

Yes. Hexxen brought up a similar argument. Your movement becomes limited, and you will have to range camp, essentially becoming a sitting duck.
Ninja edit: also, as I said, outside of 1v1 situations, melee players would decimate the warden with their cleaves if you were to camp inside it.

Also, don’t forget that regardless of old or new, the warden spawns on the target, so if you’re already at range and want to camp in your warden, you’d have to make your way to it.

Any word from Anet?

Yup, that’d be great :P

Ryn.6459:

Any word from Anet?

Pulling the finger (flipping the bird) requires no words.

Anet called and said that this works as planned.
Since most of mesmer’s skills are random they thought that fantasms should be too : they sometimes attack and sometimes not.

We are chaos! And now we have fantasms that leave the other players dazed, just as if you throw a fake grenade in a room and laugh at seeing people jump around shouting in fear until they understand it was a joke.

This fanstasm is the same : they will never know if it attacks! It will disrupt their flow!
We are masters of chaos and messing with minds!!!!!

BeoErgon.9107:

Anet called and said that this works as planned.
Since most of mesmer’s skills are random they thought that fantasms should be too : they sometimes attack and sometimes not.

We are chaos! And now we have fantasms that leave the other players dazed, just as if you throw a fake grenade in a room and laugh at seeing people jump around shouting in fear until they understand it was a joke.

This fanstasm is the same : they will never know if it attacks! It will disrupt their flow!
We are masters of chaos and messing with minds!!!!!

This … is the most stupid post I’ve read since somone said GS outdamages the Sword in melee. xD

BeoErgon.9107:

Anet called and said that this works as planned.
Since most of mesmer’s skills are random they thought that fantasms should be too : they sometimes attack and sometimes not.

We are chaos! And now we have fantasms that leave the other players dazed, just as if you throw a fake grenade in a room and laugh at seeing people jump around shouting in fear until they understand it was a joke.

This fanstasm is the same : they will never know if it attacks! It will disrupt their flow!
We are masters of chaos and messing with minds!!!!!

XD you nail it.

That is one of the things I dont understand from ANET:the lack if communication

Hey guys,

lets put all our good info here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Phantasmal-Warden-bugs-post-patch/first#post3286177

I am surprise they didn’t fix this in the latest patch yesterday.

gj Quiko, well then:

/CLOSED

so this really sux… i am stuck with using the kitten focus for mobility and i was starting to get used to the warden but now i have to chose between moving like a snail while everyone is running past me or having swiftness and a useless phantasm.

Soul.5947:

so this really sux… i am stuck with using the kitten focus for mobility and i was starting to get used to the warden but now i have to chose between moving like a snail while everyone is running past me or having swiftness and a useless phantasm.

chaos storm and blink helps
It is not the same though (chaos storm is random and only 3 sec of swiftness)

Still, it has helped me to get used to blink which I did not use very often before and be able to use it quick in combat situations.

In retrospect, this was all too predictable.

In my opinion it became worse, my warden now attacks like 1/5 of the time (on the very first cast!). It is now super unreliable and I really can’t use it anymore for 100% projectile reflection. Just revert the change so I have an although not moving but attacking warden! Sometimes I just wanna scream “DO SOMETHING!” at it -_-

CoF p1 – reflect the fireturrets … wait for it … wait for it … wait for it … AW COMON!!!

Wish Anet could give us some kind okittennowledgement that they are looking into this. It is CLEARLY broken.

And with the current Living Story, not having a reliable warden is horrible for mesmers.

At least a single answer of them would be nice …