Pro League started (Shocker!)
Mesmer is meta in all game modes.
They are still taken on raids, open world, and yes WvW.
Thank You
Correct, but disengenuous. Nobody gaf about who shows up in open world, cause it’s open world. However, if people had a choice, they’d probably ask for no mesmers and more eles. WvW takes mesmer for veil. That’s…about it. Portal also, but only when it’s convenient.
Mesmer is meta in all game modes.
They are still taken on raids, open world, and yes WvW.
Thank You
Correct, but disengenuous. Nobody gaf about who shows up in open world, cause it’s open world. However, if people had a choice, they’d probably ask for no mesmers and more eles. WvW takes mesmer for veil. That’s…about it. Portal also, but only when it’s convenient.
Mesmers have been an essential part of all gank groups in WvW and truth be told the 1st guild to ever run a ganked group ran 2 mesmers.
Once again you are wrong.
Mesmer is meta in all game modes.
They are still taken on raids, open world, and yes WvW.
Thank You
Correct, but disengenuous. Nobody gaf about who shows up in open world, cause it’s open world. However, if people had a choice, they’d probably ask for no mesmers and more eles. WvW takes mesmer for veil. That’s…about it. Portal also, but only when it’s convenient.
Mesmers have been an essential part of all gank groups in WvW and truth be told the 1st guild to ever run a ganked group ran 2 mesmers.
Once again you are wrong.
You mean back in the shatter hey-day? Sure, that was a thing back then. You’re about 2 years late on that one though. For the most part close combat gank groups have been phased out by revenants with every key bound to the 2nd hammer skill.
Mesmer is meta in all game modes.
They are still taken on raids, open world, and yes WvW.
Thank You
Correct, but disengenuous. Nobody gaf about who shows up in open world, cause it’s open world. However, if people had a choice, they’d probably ask for no mesmers and more eles. WvW takes mesmer for veil. That’s…about it. Portal also, but only when it’s convenient.
Mesmers have been an essential part of all gank groups in WvW and truth be told the 1st guild to ever run a ganked group ran 2 mesmers.
Once again you are wrong.
You mean back in the shatter hey-day? Sure, that was a thing back then. You’re about 2 years late on that one though. For the most part close combat gank groups have been phased out by revenants with every key bound to the 2nd hammer skill.
I’m really getting the feeling you are quite inexperienced in a lot of things in GW2.
Honestly it really sheds light on your PoV.
If there were no stacking rule mesmer would be replaced by another rev.
I honestly don’t know about that now that these teams are playing with mesmers. The kit they bring is just too good to pass up. Also condi shatter will beat all meta classes 1v1. This can guarantee you the need to 2v1 a mesmer on sides.
p.s. To the posters who disagree with me. I’m sorry but the truth is the truth. Since June 23rd 2015 we mesmers have had it easy, and we have been one of the best classes in the game. This is not debatable and is fact. You might have a different experience but that’s because of your skill level…not the class.
Thank You
Dude… your truth is very selective, you got selective memory or something?
Sure, right after the 23rd update mesmer was great, that was before HOT, then came the nerf and nerf and nerf, the final straw that make every one lost their hope is the alacrity nerf, and that was because of raid, “66%” dps increase.
Your “one of the best classes” is very very very debatable, just check out the history such as how many people took it to a big tourny or the patch history.
If there were no stacking rule mesmer would be replaced by another rev.
I honestly don’t know about that now that these teams are playing with mesmers. The kit they bring is just too good to pass up. Also condi shatter will beat all meta classes 1v1. This can guarantee you the need to 2v1 a mesmer on sides.
p.s. To the posters who disagree with me. I’m sorry but the truth is the truth. Since June 23rd 2015 we mesmers have had it easy, and we have been one of the best classes in the game. This is not debatable and is fact. You might have a different experience but that’s because of your skill level…not the class.
Thank You
Dude… your truth is very selective, you got selective memory or something?
Sure, right after the 23rd update mesmer was great, that was before HOT, then came the nerf and nerf and nerf, the final straw that make every one lost their hope is the alacrity nerf, and that was because of raid, “66%” dps increase.Your “one of the best classes” is very very very debatable, just check out the history such as how many people took it to a big tourny or the patch history.
No it’s not up for debate it’s the truth. Mesmer is meta. There is no getting around it.
Mesmer wasn’t just great. Mesmer has been OP. Literally OP as kitten. You can’t argue this. It is a fact.
We just got nuked by a monumental nerf to chronobunker and guess what? We’re still OP with condi shatter! We carry soloq matches. We are instrumental in pro league games. Gone are the days of “Woe is me I’ma mesmer”. We are in the age of “Really man play a class that takes skill bra”
I get a lot of people here are homers, but good lord I get embarrassed admitting I main a mesmer at times.
You are just going off the deep end now. You should probably get out more.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
Funny thing is I am open for discussion. I find that this sub forum is not very open minded when taking into account the entire game, and it’s pretty hilarious the mindset of anet hating mesmers prevalent here.
So after getting tons of flack for calling for chronobunker nerfs/etc and saying mesmers will be fine afterwards….I once again took the opportunity to start the discussion on how lucky we mesmers are.
Now the people who are opposing such a positive thread are the ones who are in denial and only like to complain. I’ve yet to see ANY factual evidence to refute my FACTUAL justified truth.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
Funny thing is I am open for discussion. I find that this sub forum is not very open minded when taking into account the entire game, and it’s pretty hilarious the mindset of anet hating mesmers prevalent here.
So after getting tons of flack for calling for chronobunker nerfs/etc and saying mesmers will be fine afterwards….I once again took the opportunity to start the discussion on how lucky we mesmers are.
Now the people who are opposing such a positive thread are the ones who are in denial and only like to complain. I’ve yet to see ANY factual evidence to refute my FACTUAL justified truth.
There is evidence – try playing anything other than the “meta” condi build and it’s immediately apparent that it is below par when facing anything from a Rev to a condi Necro.
Look at power mesmer – any power mesmer build. Due to HoT power creep on other classes it struggles to compete when played at an equal skill level. The least Anet could do is restore the extra bounce on Mirror Blade.
Edit: look at interrupt/lockdown builds – they’ve pretty much died out because of the amount of brainless anti cc and other easily accessible cc in the game.
Or better yet, try playing any build at all without taking Moa and Portal. An equally skilled player on another class will be more useful – hence mesmer being a vessel for those two skills.
Having one relatively mindless shatter spam condi build (or rather two pivotal skills) be so called meta and being satisfied with the state of the class are two totally different things. I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t disagree that players are taking mesmer in these tournaments. I do disagree that it somehow means all is perfectly fine.
For the record, two things which may convey my point of view – I never played chronobunker because I don’t enjoy that playstyle, and I stopped playing power shatter with the June 23rd patch despite it being my favourite build before that, because I did not like how easy it became with the MoD/CS/PU/mantra stuff – but several misguided nerfs and the dawn of HoT have put power mesmer in a worse state than this time last year, which is quite an unbelievable achievement.
As long as the patch next week nerfs other elite specs hard (certainly reaper, scrapper, druid, herald, and perhaps some shaves on others) – for example all the passive bullkitten like passive taunts and passive blocks then this might allow more variety in mesmer builds to surface again.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
To add to what Curunen has said, mesmer while “meta” for raids it is only for the alacrity and quickness of chrono.
Take a moment to think about that Azukas, in particular the embolden part.
Mesmer/chrono don’t have DPS builds that are competitive with other classes. Relegated to a support role isn’t fun for all and certainly isn’t healthy for any class including ranger/druid. Just as thief essentially being in the state it is in (as in little to no role diversity in any game mode really) isn’t good either.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
Funny thing is I am open for discussion. I find that this sub forum is not very open minded when taking into account the entire game, and it’s pretty hilarious the mindset of anet hating mesmers prevalent here.
So after getting tons of flack for calling for chronobunker nerfs/etc and saying mesmers will be fine afterwards….I once again took the opportunity to start the discussion on how lucky we mesmers are.
Now the people who are opposing such a positive thread are the ones who are in denial and only like to complain. I’ve yet to see ANY factual evidence to refute my FACTUAL justified truth.
There is evidence – try playing anything other than the “meta” condi build and it’s immediately apparent that it is below par when facing anything from a Rev to a condi Necro.
Look at power mesmer – any power mesmer build. Due to HoT power creep on other classes it struggles to compete when played at an equal skill level. The least Anet could do is restore the extra bounce on Mirror Blade.
Edit: look at interrupt/lockdown builds – they’ve pretty much died out because of the amount of brainless anti cc and other easily accessible cc in the game.
Or better yet, try playing any build at all without taking Moa and Portal. An equally skilled player on another class will be more useful – hence mesmer being a vessel for those two skills.
Having one relatively mindless shatter spam condi build (or rather two pivotal skills) be so called meta and being satisfied with the state of the class are two totally different things. I can’t speak for anyone else but I don’t disagree that players are taking mesmer in these tournaments. I do disagree that it somehow means all is perfectly fine.
For the record, two things which may convey my point of view – I never played chronobunker because I don’t enjoy that playstyle, and I stopped playing power shatter with the June 23rd patch despite it being my favourite build before that, because I did not like how easy it became with the MoD/CS/PU/mantra stuff – but several misguided nerfs and the dawn of HoT have put power mesmer in a worse state than this time last year, which is quite an unbelievable achievement.
As long as the patch next week nerfs other elite specs hard (certainly reaper, scrapper, druid, herald, and perhaps some shaves on others) – for example all the passive bullkitten like passive taunts and passive blocks then this might allow more variety in mesmer builds to surface again.
Your problems with mesmer isn’t mesmer specific…it’s game wide. Every class in this game can say the EXACT same thing that you just listed.
Regardless of what build is for mesmer is meta mesmer still is meta. That means you can play your favorite character in every game mode and never be turned away. It might not be the “build” you want, but its that way for EVERY class with exception to Guardian, Thief, and Warrior….no one wants them regardless of what build they are using lol.
We have it made and you can’t dispute it
So your argument then is for mesmers to be satisfied because Thieves/Warriors/Guardians are worse off?
Sure but isn’t the ideal situation that ALL classes have a good variety of useful builds?
Who is saying no to improving those classes as well? I don’t comment on it because for example I don’t know enough about warrior to suggest accurate buffs.
You may be satisfied with the current overall state of the game, but I’m not, because I believe it can be improved and Anet have the capability to do so if they choose to. Or are you saying the game is currently the best it could be?
(edited by Curunen.8729)
To add to what Curunen has said, mesmer while “meta” for raids it is only for the alacrity and quickness of chrono.
Take a moment to think about that Azukas, in particular the embolden part.
Mesmer/chrono don’t have DPS builds that are competitive with other classes. Relegated to a support role isn’t fun for all and certainly isn’t healthy for any class including ranger/druid. Just as thief essentially being in the state it is in (as in little to no role diversity in any game mode really) isn’t good either.
Really you are complaining about having to use the HoT elite? Let’s look at the rest of the classes in the game…..Oh yeah its the same for EVERY class in the game.
So we don’t have a DPS build….oh well our class is meta for EVERYTHING. Literally no one is going to say NO to a mesmer. Imagine if we were Warriors, Thieves, Guardians? They aren’t meta.
Congrats, you missed the point.
Warrior: Base and elite PS build, both effective as well as base and elite DPS builds which are better than mesmer as well as elite burn damage build.
Guardian: Generally has base and elite spec builds though most traits are similar however brings group condi cleanses, stab, projectile block and generally anything else you might ever need for PvE.
Rev: Yeah generally 1 or 2 DPS build but brings easy fury access (much better than any other class) as well as having options for condi clear in mallyx and projectile destruction with high uptime from ventari without sacrificing too much + amazing breakbar destruction.
Ele: Really if I have to spell out how much this is better than mesmer in PvE you need your head looking at. Multiple builds, multiple roles.
Necro: Godly condition damage in pairs or greater, brings options for might, high projectile destruction, cleansing and boon control in fractals.
Thief: 2nd highest DPS with daredevil but as mentioned, no build diversity and 1 trait more or less is the difference between DPS build and tank build.
Ranger: Kinda reduced to buff bot as well but has a decent condition build, kinda same spot as mesmer tbh, niche and only for the unique buffs.
Engineer: Godly condi DPS, can pretty much do most things that you could ever require with very little drawback to DPS outside of breaking rotation.
Mesmer: Alacrity and quickness bot. Can provide some good cleanses, can provide projectile block but comes at cost to alacrity/quickness and generally not worth it vs other options.
This is about diversity and how mesmer, ranger and thief have very little diversity either in role or in builds.
Ungrateful is what your post is.
This is why other people have called you ignorant and why you have no respect.
WTF are you talking about PvE? This thread is about PvP.
Please stay on TOPIC of the thread if you wish to continue to post, and if you would like to discuss META PvE please make a new thread.
Thank You
If you wanted this thread to stay on topic, you might have wanted to think of that 3 pages ago.
We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.
People complaining about PvE just happened
We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.
People complaining about PvE just happened
If by beast you meant a mouse. Us mice er mesmers remove the thorn from the lions paw. So I guess we are valuable.
We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.
People complaining about PvE just happened
People have been telling you since page one, that the only reason mesmer is meta is an elite and a utility skill that currently make or break tournaments in spvp.
Instant long-distance relocation and complete shutdown of another class for 10 seconds are the most broken abilities in the game, i think even among mesmers, noone would dispute that. Many teams would take those two abilities even if it meant bringing a complete deadweight. Thats the entirety of your argument and your great “fact”.
Other than that this class has had its weapon sets nerfed to the point where we basically get carried by the modified shatters from the illusions traitline (illusionary retribution and maim the disillusioned) that gives conditions to all our shatters.
The only reason condi mesmer works as it does is that our core mechanics get changed from “every shatter does this” to “every shatter does conditions and something else”.
So currently mesmer depends on a traitline for all of the condition damage and two overpowered abilities, while basically heaving their weapons for utility and mitigation.
Thats the grand state the mesmer is in. A patchwork bandaid build that somehow works out in one of the 3 major gamemodes.
For every other gamemode, yes we bring something unique to the table, sometimes good enough to give us a guaranteed slot, but never our baseline abilities.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.
People complaining about PvE just happened
People have been telling you since page one, that the only reason mesmer is meta is an elite and a utility skill that currently make or break tournaments in spvp.
Instant long-distance relocation and complete shutdown of another class for 10 seconds are the most broken abilities in the game, i think even among mesmers, noone would dispute that. Many teams would take those two abilities even if it meant bringing a complete deadweight. Thats the entirety of your argument and your great “fact”.
Other than that this class has had its weapon sets nerfed to the point where we basically get carried by the modified shatters from the illusions traitline (illusionary retribution and maim the disillusioned) that gives conditions to all our shatters.
The only reason condi mesmer works as it does is that our core mechanics get changed from “every shatter does this” to “every shatter does conditions and something else”.
So currently mesmer depends on a traitline for all of the condition damage and two overpowered abilities, while basically heaving their weapons for utility and mitigation.
Thats the grand state the mesmer is in. A patchwork bandaid build that somehow works out in one of the 3 major gamemodes.For every other gamemode, yes we bring something unique to the table, sometimes good enough to give us a guaranteed slot, but never our baseline abilities.
The meta build for mesmer is FAR more than just moa and portal. The pressure we put out is insane.
Do me a favor and watch Jebro’s plays of the week. The last play will open your eyes since all players are pro league.
Yes the moa did come out but it was in a very delicious way.
(edited by Azukas.1426)
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Bunker meta was boring. I agree with devs, that makes me omnipotent. Anything anyone says is wrong.
Just maybe they could have surgically removed key elements instead of butchering. But since I agree with someone I become right and no one else is right, this is your position.
…
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
You don’t accept the patch history as a fact
You don’t accept the past history of mesmer in all the important tournament as a fact
You don’t accept that no stacking rule make people pick mesmer to play
You accept every nerf anet did to mesmer, how about shave off like the chill nerf?
You said that every one that disagree with anet own them an apology, i don’t even know what to say about this
Your fact is “mesmer is OP. You can’t argue this. It is a fact.”
Basically you don’t accept other people opinion only your own, you shut down every arguments by stating that your facts is the only one that are correct and other are wrong.
And yes the meta is only about moa and portal, if you want more condi, necro will do better.
BTW is this the video you are talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyXz8cV62Dk
It is about moa and portal again.
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.
Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
…
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
You don’t accept the patch history as a fact
You don’t accept the past history of mesmer in all the important tournament as a fact
You don’t accept that no stacking rule make people pick mesmer to playYou accept every nerf anet did to mesmer, how about shave off like the chill nerf?
You said that every one that disagree with anet own them an apology, i don’t even know what to say about this
Your fact is “mesmer is OP. You can’t argue this. It is a fact.”Basically you don’t accept other people opinion only your own, you shut down every arguments by stating that your facts is the only one that are correct and other are wrong.
And yes the meta is only about moa and portal, if you want more condi, necro will do better.
BTW is this the video you are talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyXz8cV62Dk
It is about moa and portal again.
I also stated that yes there was a use of moa (no portal was used by the other team to get a 3v1 advantage) I believe you missed a MAJOR thing in that video and I think you need to watch it a few times more before you get it.
As for the history of mesmer what are you talking about. I’m currently dealing with the now. The patch history for mesmer isn’t NEARLY as bad as the patch history for other classes in this game. Rangers went YEARS w/out anything. Thieves are the most nerfed class in this game bar none. Granted we are not the Engineer or Ele of the game, but we aren’t the worst in regards to patches. I addressed the glamour nerf b/c people here toted it like some vendetta against mesmers when in reality it was a much needed nerf to an OP spec.
As for past tournaments we’ve had high level mesmers playing in those tournaments for years. These players just didn’t emerge out of the woodwork when mesmer starting getting buffed last June. I’m also of the school of thought that you balance the game based on NOW not giving classes turns at being OP.
Yes we as community (Mesmers) owe Arenanet an apology. We’ve acted like children when we’ve had no reason too. How can we seriously be upset with how the balance team has handled mesmers lately? We can’t…it’s that simple.
Thanks for the reply
portal has always beeng in use. rev just being faster with 2 rev stacking and rotate locations (or thief in the old past)
condi mesmer has hardly changed before hot and after. before the last patch all ppl said condi mesmer is useless while i argue and being shut down.
so mesmer hasnt become op
other class got so buff with dmg, that they stop taking much condi cleanse abilities which open up condi pressure. thus the build it self is the same
also bunker ability beside some ele build hardly being used (you aint see guard anymore) thus condi build got introduced
but to say mesmer or op is just wrong.
rev got 2 build to play (condi or power)
ranger has 2-3 builds
ele 2 builds with same concept as group still need support
thief 3 builds but othere class are stronger
engi 2 builds
necro 2 builds or 3 if taking power build into account
mesmer has only 1 build every expansion with portal and moa as a base utilities.
the only time mesmer had unique build was the bunker meta (as no one consider mesmer as bunker)
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
portal has always beeng in use. rev just being faster with 2 rev stacking and rotate locations (or thief in the old past)
condi mesmer has hardly changed before hot and after. before the last patch all ppl said condi mesmer is useless while i argue and being shut down.
so mesmer hasnt become op
other class got so buff with dmg, that they stop taking much condi cleanse abilities which open up condi pressure. thus the build it self is the same
also bunker ability beside some ele build hardly being used (you aint see guard anymore) thus condi build got introducedbut to say mesmer or op is just wrong.
rev got 2 build to play (condi or power)
ranger has 2-3 builds
ele 2 builds with same concept as group still need support
thief 3 builds but othere class are stronger
engi 2 builds
necro 2 builds or 3 if taking power build into accountmesmer has only 1 build every expansion with portal and moa as a base utilities.
the only time mesmer had unique build was the bunker meta (as no one consider mesmer as bunker)
Mesmer is bar none the best 1v1 class in this meta. They can also guarantee a team fight win.
Mesmer is actually pretty OP, and more than likely we’ll see nerfs tomorrow. I just hope that the rest of the classes get their fair share as well, and I actually trust this balance team so far in regards to mesmer.
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.
4 pages of denial is enough, don’t you agree?
Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Lol just wait till tomorrow. No matter what happens he will/would have predicted and agreed with. Nigh omnipotent
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.
4 pages of denial is enough, don’t you agree?
The forum has no rules against being a blockhead, annoying as that may be. While the op is extremely aggravating, they haven’t actually done anything reportable.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
We’ve been on the topic of how beast our class is since page 1.
People complaining about PvE just happened
People have been telling you since page one, that the only reason mesmer is meta is an elite and a utility skill that currently make or break tournaments in spvp.
Instant long-distance relocation and complete shutdown of another class for 10 seconds are the most broken abilities in the game, i think even among mesmers, noone would dispute that. Many teams would take those two abilities even if it meant bringing a complete deadweight. Thats the entirety of your argument and your great “fact”.
Other than that this class has had its weapon sets nerfed to the point where we basically get carried by the modified shatters from the illusions traitline (illusionary retribution and maim the disillusioned) that gives conditions to all our shatters.
The only reason condi mesmer works as it does is that our core mechanics get changed from “every shatter does this” to “every shatter does conditions and something else”.
So currently mesmer depends on a traitline for all of the condition damage and two overpowered abilities, while basically heaving their weapons for utility and mitigation.
Thats the grand state the mesmer is in. A patchwork bandaid build that somehow works out in one of the 3 major gamemodes.For every other gamemode, yes we bring something unique to the table, sometimes good enough to give us a guaranteed slot, but never our baseline abilities.
The meta build for mesmer is FAR more than just moa and portal. The pressure we put out is insane.
Do me a favor and watch Jebro’s plays of the week. The last play will open your eyes since all players are pro league.
Yes the moa did come out but it was in a very delicious way.
Why the hell did you even quote my post? Nothing you said has anything to do with what i wrote. Nothing.
The TLDR of what i wrote in my post is: “Condi mesmer works because two traits in the illusion line manhandle our core mechanics enough to make it: f1-f4 are now condition skills. Take that away and we are a dead class in spvp, because everything else has been nerfed to hell and back”.
Not “Mesmer so weak!”
At least, try to read what other people write, kittening rude. And i dont give a hoot about some streamer, i play passable myself.
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.
I see what you mean but this kind of thread create a big delusion about mesmer and then we have guys like lexander who only play thief, had a vendeta against mesmer, act like an expert on mesmer, a guy like lionchan with his nerf signet of inspiration TM, and a guy like ryo who said that Mesmer was always good at pve, back in the day mesmer were brough in for time warp and portal only
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow
wut?
IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.
Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.
Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.
I see what you mean but this kind of thread create a big delusion about mesmer and then we have guys like lexander who only play thief, had a vendeta against mesmer, act like an expert on mesmer, a guy like lionchan with his nerf signet of inspiration TM, and a guy like ryo who said that Mesmer was always good at pve, back in the day mesmer were brough in for time warp and portal only
And that’s why the best thing to do is to let this thread die and let OP enjoy their delusions in private.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.
What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.
What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….
Necromancer.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.
What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….
Necromancer.
Double Moa says no.
I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.
What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.
This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.
“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "
You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.
Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.
If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”
Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.
Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.
Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?
Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another
The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.
So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.
Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.
So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?
Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.
I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.
Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.
I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.
Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.
Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.
I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.
Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.
1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer
People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option
PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrowwut?
I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.
You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.
What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….
Necromancer.
Double Moa says no.
Doing your best to not doze off at the keyboard and remember that dodging exists in this game says yes. If you get hit by moa, you’re a bad player.