Guild Wars 2

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Hlord.5940:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.

Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.

I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.

Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.

1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer

People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option

PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow

wut?

I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….

Theif, necro, and Dragonhunters.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Hlord.5940:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.

Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.

I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.

Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.

1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer

People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option

PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow

wut?

I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….

Necromancer.

Double Moa says no.

Oh are we comparing doomsday buttons now? All necro has to do is sit there and land the plague signet and then you kill yourself.

Oh man, this is a pretty easy victory. Sorry, Azukas, I know you’re trying your best but…

• That a class has a viable build does not therefor make that class OP.

• That a class is in the meta is no grounds for stating there’s a problem with that class.

• That there is the possibility of balance changes for said class, or if in fact said class does receive changes is not grounds for validation of your personal perception of things <- redic’ XD

Anyway, loving the indomitable denial, the aggravation generation is real. Real funny too :D

~Buuuuuuuuutooooooooooooon

Oh, and for old time sake:-

Anyone who loves totting out streamers and/or pro league players, let’s all take a moment to recall Helseth and the great scepter clone torment spam dooms day prediction XD

Lol

Azukas.1426:

…decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

Because of moa and portal.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me…

Necromancer.

Double Moa says no.

Exactly! moa~

Reasons for using Mesmer:
- F5 + Moa
- Portal
- No class stacking

/thread.

FLIMP.8172:

Azukas.1426:

…decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

Because of moa and portal.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me…

Necromancer.

Double Moa says no.

Exactly! moa~

Reasons for using Mesmer:
- F5 + Moa
- Portal
- No class stacking

/thread.

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol. This is why we all need to apologize to anet.

I’ll start:

I’m sorry Arenanet for jumping the gun and raging over the mesmer nerfs last patch. I know now that I was being a child, and in the long run mesmer is better off now then it ever was. Thank You.

C’mon everyone follow suit.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The pro players also stated such accurate things as mesmer scepter getting torment as being basically the end of PvP as we know it.

Face it, the pros are good at playing, not good at thinking. They’re better off leaving the theorycrafting to people that know what they’re talking about.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol. This is why we all need to apologize to anet.

I’ll start:

I’m sorry Arenanet for jumping the gun and raging over the mesmer nerfs last patch. I know now that I was being a child, and in the long run mesmer is better off now then it ever was. Thank You.

C’mon everyone follow suit.

So before the class stacking rule we saw all the Mesmer train teams dominating. Those double triple quad Mesmer teams rocked. Thank god anet instituted that class stacking rule.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol.

1. Moa on a ~60s cd is probably the main the reason we are the best in 1 v 1. Try 1 v 1 a good ranger or ele without moa and see what the outcome is..?
2. Everyone knows, including the pros, the game isn’t about 1 v 1 so this comment, regardless if it’s true or not, is irrelevant.
3. Pretty sure our role is to +1 fights and blow kitten up quickly (i.e. moa)

/thread x 2

Azukas.1426:

messiah.1908:

portal has always beeng in use. rev just being faster with 2 rev stacking and rotate locations (or thief in the old past)
condi mesmer has hardly changed before hot and after. before the last patch all ppl said condi mesmer is useless while i argue and being shut down.
so mesmer hasnt become op
other class got so buff with dmg, that they stop taking much condi cleanse abilities which open up condi pressure. thus the build it self is the same
also bunker ability beside some ele build hardly being used (you aint see guard anymore) thus condi build got introduced

but to say mesmer or op is just wrong.

rev got 2 build to play (condi or power)
ranger has 2-3 builds
ele 2 builds with same concept as group still need support
thief 3 builds but othere class are stronger
engi 2 builds
necro 2 builds or 3 if taking power build into account

mesmer has only 1 build every expansion with portal and moa as a base utilities.
the only time mesmer had unique build was the bunker meta (as no one consider mesmer as bunker)

Mesmer is bar none the best 1v1 class in this meta. They can also guarantee a team fight win.

Mesmer is actually pretty OP, and more than likely we’ll see nerfs tomorrow. I just hope that the rest of the classes get their fair share as well, and I actually trust this balance team so far in regards to mesmer.

mesmer has always been kind op in 1v1 as they build for it
the problem was anet push other class to be good in 1v1 with power creep which push out the mesmer from power base class to condi base class. and when the power raised mesmer pushed more to condi as class took less condi cleanse

is the build it self OP – no, if you take condi cleanse

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol. This is why we all need to apologize to anet.

I’ll start:

I’m sorry Arenanet for jumping the gun and raging over the mesmer nerfs last patch. I know now that I was being a child, and in the long run mesmer is better off now then it ever was. Thank You.

C’mon everyone follow suit.

Yes it is the best 1v1 class, but guess what, none of mesmer’s skills support team fighting. They all require a target to cast your skills on, except staff 5.

also 1v1

engi can handle mesmer
necro can handle if not moa or good los abuse
ranger with good cleanse
bunker guard( no one use it)
ele if not moa and build to handle condi

sure the longer the fight more % win for mesmer but in pvp its not about 1v1 its about contest a point till +1 arrives and leaves

if mesmer doing 1v1 versus engi its bad thing for the mesmer as his team must need him elsewhere
so saying op build 1v1 maye true in wvw roaming but in pvp its your team fault if they dont help you

So you don’t think any nerds are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

cough

So…

How bout them nerfs Azukas?

nudge nudge

C’mon, say something…

Azukas.1426:

Double Moa says no.

If you get hit by moa not only once, but twice in any duel situation, you are so bad.

Thats literally the only thing you need to watch out for.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The only place where no one seems to know this is here on this sub forum, and moa + portal isn’t the only reason lol. This is why we all need to apologize to anet.

I’ll start:

I’m sorry Arenanet for jumping the gun and raging over the mesmer nerfs last patch. I know now that I was being a child, and in the long run mesmer is better off now then it ever was. Thank You.

C’mon everyone follow suit.

They buffed some things now so obviously they realised some things were cut too much (ie Flow of Time).

Therefore no apology required.

Still reading/processing patch

Problem we need to look at is other classes, sigil, and amulet buffs.

Overall we look good and I’m surprised they left cs and moa alone. I think the entire game is shocked.

Azukas.1426:

Still reading/processing patch

Problem we need to look at is other classes, sigil, and amulet buffs.

Overall we look good and I’m surprised they left cs and moa alone. I think the entire game is shocked.

Is this April 1st?? Strangest thread topic ever. Would not listen then suggest the same skills we have been trying to make you see. Glad it’s over.

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Still reading/processing patch

Problem we need to look at is other classes, sigil, and amulet buffs.

Overall we look good and I’m surprised they left cs and moa alone. I think the entire game is shocked.

Is this April 1st?? Strangest thread topic ever. Would not listen then suggest the same skills we have been trying to make you see. Glad it’s over.

Was thinking the same thing with no CS Moa nerf

Fay.2357:

Face it, the pros are good at playing, not good at thinking. They’re better off leaving the theorycrafting to people that know what they’re talking about.

And I’d sometimes argue even the playing, insofar that they only play one specific and highly niche area of the game in an even more limited-than-normal way.

Yes they play that really well but I have a feeling that sPvP god is not going to be such a great Borderlands defense commander. Puts a limit on how great their play can be if they can’t even play all aspects of a class well.

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

Crispy Fried Azukas.

Let me summarise this thread for you since your reflexes are insufficient and everything goes over your head (<3 Drax).

Azuka: Mesmer is OP!

Mesmer Community: No we are not – we are just a CS + Moa + Portal Bot

Azuka: No! We are OP because we can defend far/home whilst turning team fights

Mesmer Community: Yes – using CS + Moa + Portal

Azuka: No! It’s because we are OP and can we win all 1 v 1s

Mesmer Community: Yes – with CS + Moa. Without it we lose some, we win some.

Azuka: No! But you can just double Moa!

Mesmer Community: – face palm -

- Anet buffs Mesmer -

Azuka: See! Mesmer is so OP! Even Helseth says we need to nerf CS + Moa!

Mesmer Community: – double face palm -

Thief will not counter the standing Chrono meta build from S2

Warrior/Berserker on the other hand has the necessary tools to do the job.

Conclusion: If we had more warriors in S2, that Chrono build would have been viewed very differently. As would have warrior XD

S2 Chrono complaints were entirely a Scrub argument issue In the grand scheme.

~Humble opinion.

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

LOL chronophantasm is OP mate.

When the best mesmers in the world are stating it, the best players in the world, and the entire community other than this sub forum…it’s OP.

Personally I’ve said get rid of Moa x2 and see where we lie.

I have not ignored ANY post and have addressed just about every post to me in this thread. I’ve used logic, fact, examples, and history to present my side. All i get in return is homerism for the mesmer class w/out any objectivity besides we are just Moa/Portal bots. Forget the fact you need to be a heck of a lot more than a Moa/Portal bot to kill ppl 1v3 in a pro level match lol.

Thanks for the post mate.

You do realize that outside of this subforum Mesmer has always been OP right? Even when it was at its absolute weakest, no one wanted one on their team, and you might see 1 or 2 brave souls running it in a team comp? Yeah even then it was OP because people had l2p issues like not paying attention to an obvious casting of Moa gasp.

Your entire argument is flawed from the beginning because you keep referencing people who A) historically have never played the class and whine that it’s OP without understanding its mechanics. This can be seen in a separate post were a forum member drew phrases from the PvP forum, and you’re drawing conclusions from the ESL. All probably 20 people. That’s not a lot, hate to burst your bubble there. and you know what they are good at? Playing. Not balancing, that job would be for a balance team(if we had one) that would look across ALL game modes and say oh well this isn’t as big a deal as the newbs who can’t l2p and the handful of pro leaguer vs the other two game modes.
Not only that, but you can go into ranked, unranked, hot join whatever on whatever build you want on whatever class you want and o guarantee you unless you ruby or above you’ll find at least one person that can’t dodge, stands in red circles, etc.
there is no reason to cater to them. End of story.

And technically you haven’t ignored everyone you’re right. You’ve replied to them by saying they are wrong and your right. Which… Isn’t much of a discussion. More of a bad opinion.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

LOL chronophantasm is OP mate.

When the best mesmers in the world are stating it, the best players in the world, and the entire community other than this sub forum…it’s OP.

Personally I’ve said get rid of Moa x2 and see where we lie.

I have not ignored ANY post and have addressed just about every post to me in this thread. I’ve used logic, fact, examples, and history to present my side. All i get in return is homerism for the mesmer class w/out any objectivity besides we are just Moa/Portal bots. Forget the fact you need to be a heck of a lot more than a Moa/Portal bot to kill ppl 1v3 in a pro level match lol.

Thanks for the post mate.

LOL chronophantasm is NOT OP mate.
Blah blah blah blah
Thanks for the post mate.
I can do that also.

Lesson here folks:

Ambiguous arguments are easy to defend.

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

I said I’m not lobbying for nerfs this go around but I expect them. You did too. We ALL did. You were just in another thread telling ppl to kitten we dodged a bullet lol.

Even Helseth states mesmer is OP and moa needs to go.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fmrnm/helseth_vs_anet_i_was_doing_my_usual_subgoal/

Wooden Potatoes made legendary using the mesmer build and he also said it was broken….yes the PvE king of the world lol

This sub forum is perhaps the most hilarious one on the entire site.

The only hilarious part is you. You ignored every post. You swore Mesmer was op. You agreed with Anet and used this to hack everyone down. Logic bounced off you and continues as you grasp at more people stating opinions and use them to defend your awful ideas.

LOL chronophantasm is OP mate.

When the best mesmers in the world are stating it, the best players in the world, and the entire community other than this sub forum…it’s OP.

Personally I’ve said get rid of Moa x2 and see where we lie.

I have not ignored ANY post and have addressed just about every post to me in this thread. I’ve used logic, fact, examples, and history to present my side. All i get in return is homerism for the mesmer class w/out any objectivity besides we are just Moa/Portal bots. Forget the fact you need to be a heck of a lot more than a Moa/Portal bot to kill ppl 1v3 in a pro level match lol.

Thanks for the post mate.

LOL chronophantasm is NOT OP mate.
Blah blah blah blah
Thanks for the post mate.
I can do that also.

You are of a handful of people who maintain this Pov. The rest of the world disagree with you.

That being said I say remove 2x moa and reassess mesmer over the next month. See where it is.

ppl QQ about mesmer all the time.

why you may ask.

because some one either just got killed with a ball a moe pink kitten fluff, turned into a chicken, or portal stomped.

truth is even if portal moa and cs was removed, people would just QQ about whatever we get compensated with because it doesn’t change the fact they just got killed by a ball of moe pink kitten fluff, and charged onto the mesmer sub forum with their ascii armor and mouse flail.

i really dont get anything out of it

if condi mesmer is op not because of moa and portal and cs than almost every other condi build is strong as condi mesmer application is worse compare to other class (engi,rev,necro 4exp)

now if condi mesmer op cause of moa portal and cs than why power mesmer isnt op?! or bunker mesmer or any other build? ….

now if portal alone is not op as it was used long before than do really only moa+cs is op? do 2 players focusing 1 enemy not almost equal or even better?

yes moa can change to phase of the game if you manage to kill fast but do every time any moa get reckt? NO as most of pugs hardly target it or coordinate cc on it etc.. so maybe it strong with good coordinated groups which are the top tier team….

i think all the time spend in S2 i got moa maybe 4 times…. and died only 1 time cause i has 3v1….

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

You say “What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal” however if you didn’t have continuum split at all in chronomancer would it in your eyes depreciate enough in value to not feel OP?

Additionally do you think that any build in base Mesmer traits and weapons is competitive in “current” meta against your skill peers? I do appreciate we have just had a patch that’s shaken up reapers and scrapers so it’s not an easy question to answer.

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

condi application of memser is the poorest compare to other classes as you have to shatter and the clone to hit. thus alone make it far worst than op
every single match i watch of por players and average player the condi bomb is like 3 torment, 5 confusion in average. sure in 1v1 there is some nice 10 confusion stacks here and there.

is it op? NO
now drop moa and portal and you will see probably revenant coming back or even engi as condi player

Azukas.1426:

The rest of the world disagree with you.

Can confirm, I’m often in somalia organising mesmer trauma meetings.

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

You say “What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal” however if you didn’t have continuum split at all in chronomancer would it in your eyes depreciate enough in value to not feel OP?

Additionally do you think that any build in base Mesmer traits and weapons is competitive in “current” meta against your skill peers? I do appreciate we have just had a patch that’s shaken up reapers and scrapers so it’s not an easy question to answer.

Im really not 100% sure on this, but i think mesmer could still be in meta with continuum split removed, although i dont think it would feel very OP anymore but i could be wrong.

I dont think a mesmer build without chronomancer could be competitive at all, you cant rotate CDs enough to be good in 1v1s and i doubt you would have enough damage to get to be a roamer like mesmer used to be.

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

condi application of memser is the poorest compare to other classes as you have to shatter and the clone to hit. thus alone make it far worst than op
every single match i watch of por players and average player the condi bomb is like 3 torment, 5 confusion in average. sure in 1v1 there is some nice 10 confusion stacks here and there.

is it op? NO
now drop moa and portal and you will see probably revenant coming back or even engi as condi player

The only being able to have 1 of each profession in a team comp in competitive games limits things like rev going condi since power rev seems to be pretty good still and i very much doubt engi will be played as condi. Mesmer is not the best at applying condis, granted, things like necro have more sustained condi application while mesmer mostly has burst in large scale fights, in 1v1s you can keep the condis up most of the time though.

Its hard to compare condi rev and condi mesmer since condi revs role is completely different and so would condi engis if it becomes meta. If condi rev is good, people would most likely run both a condi mesmer and a rev since they usually arent in the same positions in games.

I wouldnt call condi mesmer in itself “OP”, moa and portal in combination with it is what makes it that. Im just saying that condi mesmer in itself is actually decent.

Condi Mesmer without the extreme combination of alacrity, Illusions line CD reductions, and continuum split double up effects is terribly, horribly underperforming.

All of Mesmer is without some combination of those in mind. Unless you like to return to the days of hiding continually in the shadows and hanging out far from the fight between engagements.

Frostball.9108:

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

condi application of memser is the poorest compare to other classes as you have to shatter and the clone to hit. thus alone make it far worst than op
every single match i watch of por players and average player the condi bomb is like 3 torment, 5 confusion in average. sure in 1v1 there is some nice 10 confusion stacks here and there.

is it op? NO
now drop moa and portal and you will see probably revenant coming back or even engi as condi player

I wouldnt call condi mesmer in itself “OP”, moa and portal in combination with it is what makes it that. Im just saying that condi mesmer in itself is actually decent.

so why is that we didnt see any condi mesmer before as moa and portal was there long time ago. i was the only one who played condi mesmer and argue that is very good 1v1 situation and holding far or close…. and if any person told its not good and evfen top players than it must be not because condi and moa and portal combine is op rather something else.

the answer is other class got so buff with power creep that they take less condi cleanse trying to burst others before they do

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

condi application of memser is the poorest compare to other classes as you have to shatter and the clone to hit. thus alone make it far worst than op
every single match i watch of por players and average player the condi bomb is like 3 torment, 5 confusion in average. sure in 1v1 there is some nice 10 confusion stacks here and there.

is it op? NO
now drop moa and portal and you will see probably revenant coming back or even engi as condi player

I wouldnt call condi mesmer in itself “OP”, moa and portal in combination with it is what makes it that. Im just saying that condi mesmer in itself is actually decent.

so why is that we didnt see any condi mesmer before as moa and portal was there long time ago. i was the only one who played condi mesmer and argue that is very good 1v1 situation and holding far or close…. and if any person told its not good and evfen top players than it must be not because condi and moa and portal combine is op rather something else.

the answer is other class got so buff with power creep that they take less condi cleanse trying to burst others before they do

Condi mesmer has always been OP. You just weren’t tournament viable with the build. Now anet has made it viable competitively.

That said get rid of dble moa now then evaluate the build. If it’s still too strong you nerf it before season 3

Azukas.1426:

Condi mesmer has always been OP. You just weren’t tournament viable with the build. Now anet has made it viable competitively.

I don’t know anything about your history with the game or this profession, aside from what I’ve seen in this thread and the PvP sub. But wow, does this statement smack of “hasn’t been playing Mesmer for long.”

Anyone who thinks Condi Mes was always OP is… well, it betrays a lack of knowledge, both with how to play mesmer and how to play against mesmer. Frankly, I’ve found most people who’ve felt that way in the past were thieves, who didn’t avoid confusion application, didn’t cleanse, and then pressed all of the buttons before raging as they died.

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

Azukas.1426:

Condi mesmer has always been OP. You just weren’t tournament viable with the build. Now anet has made it viable competitively.

I don’t know anything about your history with the game or this profession, aside from what I’ve seen in this thread and the PvP sub. But wow, does this statement smack of “hasn’t been playing Mesmer for long.”

Anyone who thinks Condi Mes was always OP is… well, it betrays a lack of knowledge, both with how to play mesmer and how to play against mesmer. Frankly, I’ve found most people who’ve felt that way in the past were thieves, who didn’t avoid confusion application, didn’t cleanse, and then pressed all of the buttons before raging as they died.

He’s a mesmer main, and watches ALL the pro streamers. If that’s not qualified I don’t know what is!

Azukas.1426:

Condi mesmer has always been OP. You just weren’t tournament viable with the build. Now anet has made it viable competitively.

If anything, condi mesmer before HoT was the niche build of niche builds.

If any statement in this thread screams “i have never actually played a mesmer before they became meta!” it is this.

Maybe, someday in the future you’ll try to actually learn to play against mesmers and other classes you make those threads in. (because i have no doubt thats what you do, getting your kitten handed to you and then make a veiled “nerf us we so OP” thread in their class forums pretending you play the class).

Idk what you guys are talking about. Azukas makes perfect sense to me! Clearly condie Mesmer was simultaneously brokenly op and completely unviable! Nothing about this is contradictory at all!

The problem we have here is that Mesmer are super biased in this thread which is not surprising. The fact of the matter is mesmers do need to be toned down when it comes to moa and portal. I’ve hit legend twice and spvp last season and this season and did witness how broken these 2 skills can be. That’s especially the case now that necros, dragonhunters, scrappers got nerfed..sorry it’s your turn now