Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom
Pro League started (Shocker!)
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Moa is not the problem.
Signet of Illusions and somewhat CS are.
Signet of illusions boosts the mesmer survivability and damage by a lot.
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Condi mesmer has always been OP. You just weren’t tournament viable with the build. Now anet has made it viable competitively.
I don’t know anything about your history with the game or this profession, aside from what I’ve seen in this thread and the PvP sub. But wow, does this statement smack of “hasn’t been playing Mesmer for long.”
Anyone who thinks Condi Mes was always OP is… well, it betrays a lack of knowledge, both with how to play mesmer and how to play against mesmer. Frankly, I’ve found most people who’ve felt that way in the past were thieves, who didn’t avoid confusion application, didn’t cleanse, and then pressed all of the buttons before raging as they died.
Condi mesmer is strong yea, but you gotta remember we didn’t have mercenary amulet before, now condi mesmer can also do direct damage while getting the survivability of a rabid amulet.
We also didn’t have the changes before, MtD, chrono, etc
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Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.
Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?
Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.
If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.
For the record when did say mesmer is OP?
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(edited by StickerHappy.8052)
snip
Yes, mesmers are good 1vs1, but the issue here is that they are good because people are completely unwilling to learn what makes a mesmer good in those situations, and how to prevent it.
People spam buttons. Most of the players i face, thought it is an awesome idea to simply spam more buttons when the insanely obvious block bubble pops up. Do you know why its most likely the most obvious skill in the game? Because that skill is the linchpin of most of the mesmers damage and sustain. Its two phantoms, that turn into 1×2 clones to shatter and 1×3 clones for a second shatter.
Thats heals, condi clears damage and mitigation. If you have an unblockable skill on your class and some interrupt you can completely rip the mesmers damage and sustain apart. If you just dont attack the bubble, you still make the mesmer weapon switch at least and force him to have a much higher ramp up time.
Do people do that? No.
When i play my warrior and face mesmers though, i eat them. Why? Because i know how their skills work, and i dont roll my face on the keyboard to win fights.
snip
Yes, mesmers are good 1vs1, but the issue here is that they are good because people are completely unwilling to learn what makes a mesmer good in those situations, and how to prevent it.
People spam buttons. Most of the players i face, thought it is an awesome idea to simply spam more buttons when the insanely obvious block bubble pops up. Do you know why its most likely the most obvious skill in the game? Because that skill is the linchpin of most of the mesmers damage and sustain. Its two phantoms, that turn into 1×2 clones to shatter and 1×3 clones for a second shatter.
Thats heals, condi clears damage and mitigation. If you have an unblockable skill on your class and some interrupt you can completely rip the mesmers damage and sustain apart. If you just dont attack the bubble, you still make the mesmer weapon switch at least and force him to have a much higher ramp up time.
Do people do that? No.
When i play my warrior and face mesmers though, i eat them. Why? Because i know how their skills work, and i dont roll my face on the keyboard to win fights.
I mained mesmer, played 2500 games with it, 2500 games with my ranger. I dueled most mesmers (a LOT of times) you know and I can tell you this is a very hard matchup. Yes some people need to l2p against mesmers, but again this is easily a very hard matchup nowadays. Before It was okay, now its a different story.
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Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.
Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?
Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.
If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.
For the record when did say mesmer is OP?
1v1s happen all the time, but they also don’t decide the match. Moa has been substantially strengthened by the addition of CS; whether it’s OP (or it’s not), that increased use of it has correspondingly increased all the whining on the forums about it. Before, it was just a huge-CD elite that people took because they preferred it to MI, and what the hell else were they going to take?
And yes, portal has always been in the game. And it’s always been the one skill that gave Mesmers any use in PvP, even when everything else about the profession stunk to high heaven. Then, as now, mesmers were on teams almost entirely for portal; now, we just have a build beyond that one skill that doesn’t feel like banging our heads against concrete.
My apologies if you didn’t mean to say mesmers were OP; I thought that was pretty well implied by your agreement with Azukas.
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.
Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?
Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.
If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.
For the record when did say mesmer is OP?
1v1s happen all the time, but they also don’t decide the match. Moa has been substantially strengthened by the addition of CS; whether it’s OP (or it’s not), that increased use of it has correspondingly increased all the whining on the forums about it. Before, it was just a huge-CD elite that people took because they preferred it to MI, and what the hell else were they going to take?
And yes, portal has always been in the game. And it’s always been the one skill that gave Mesmers any use in PvP, even when everything else about the profession stunk to high heaven. Then, as now, mesmers were on teams almost entirely for portal; now, we just have a build beyond that one skill that doesn’t feel like banging our heads against concrete.
My apologies if you didn’t mean to say mesmers were OP; I thought that was pretty well implied by your agreement with Azukas.
Do you remember the mantra mesmer meta? only a few mesmers ran portal and moa.
No apologies needed, I just agreed with some his points, and I do not know if he is in fact saying mesmers are OP.
But in the pro league scene stuff he is right.
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Sticker I think one reason why everyone gets so worked up is because honestly Anet sucks at balancing. They’ve no notion of shaving, they take the nerf bat and swing for the fences every time and if other builds get caught up in it oh well. I run a non meta SS Staff build, it’s what I like, and it got nerfed the same time chronobunk did. I’m sure other people’s build did to on various patches. But Anet doesn’t care. Plain and simple. 9 out of 10 times they look and say this class is doing to well, or we don’t like it(like some devs are prone to say) and just nerf it.
Is Mesmer strong? Yes, absolutely in certain aspects. 1v1’s are one of those. Utility is another. But when you have people saying we can use double portals… Well you know the kind of crowd that complains the loudest often have no idea how the class works.
Realistically I think we should have multiple builds available to us. Honestly there is no reason Anet can’t have a tournament ready Power, condi, and support build for each class. That alone would open up so many different team comps it would be unreal. But with the way things are right now you won’t see a power shatter Mesmer in the pro league, not enough sustain, nor will you see a support(like chronobunk or similar) because it got nerfed into the ground.
This obviously would require a massive overhaul of all classes and I don’t see that happening.
Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom
Every one seem to forget that mesmer is the lowest dps
Also if you are not using scepter or off-hand sword we are still in nerf state, anet nerf alacrity by 50%, from 66% to 33%, they buff flow of time from 0.75 sec to 1 sec, not 1.25 sec
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.
Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?
Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.
If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.
For the record when did say mesmer is OP?
Mesmer has always been stellar at 1v1. Mesmer has always had moa. Mesmer has always had portal.
Mesmer has almost always been garbage-tier in PvP.
You and others make all these arguments while ignoring the facts obvious to everyone else that all these things you’re complaining about clearly didn’t matter all that much ever before. They’re just being brought up as talking points now to try and get on the ‘nerf mesmer omg so op’ train.
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Moa is not the problem.
Signet of Illusions and somewhat CS are.
Signet of illusions boosts the mesmer survivability and damage by a lot.
yes mesmer design to be 1v1 class but the problem is in team fight if you cant kill your enemy in 30 sec enemy team help should come turning it to 1v2
now power mesmer didnt get any buff which make them obsolete and condi mesmer can handle 20-30 sec fight and even some 1v2
thief also great in 1v1 but the problem in some cases it will take them too long and help will arrive.
conditions build based on ticking and ticking takes time so the longer the fight the chances are you gonna win with condi build versus power build if you know how to handle your skills versus the burst dmg. also mesmer had all those skill before any patch and no one complain about condi mesmer till now cause it is the build which turn meta. again not because the build rather other class not using cleanse skills
(edited by messiah.1908)
I’m very confused here can someone explain what exactly is so weak about mesmer in its current state and why it shouldn’t be considered a top tier spec for at least its condi build? What exactly are they lacking in are ppl upset just because portal and moa have shown to be key parts to the build and simply want to use something else. Its not like they’re even weak agasint consistent condi cleansing because no amount of condi cleansing can keep up with the actual application as most condi cleansing tool cds are far longer when compared.
The problem we have here is that Mesmer are super biased in this thread which is not surprising. The fact of the matter is mesmers do need to be toned down when it comes to moa and portal. I’ve hit legend twice and spvp last season and this season and did witness how broken these 2 skills can be. That’s especially the case now that necros, dragonhunters, scrappers got nerfed..sorry it’s your turn now
The thing about bias is that everybody has one. In fact, there’s nothing inherently wrong with bias. Bias can be good or bad. It’s not THAT there’s a bias, but rather what the bias is. Generally speaking the bias of a mesmer main is that they have a clearer understanding of the mesmer and how it functions in the game. Those same experienced mesmers can generally clearly see the weaknesses and counters to their builds.
A bad bias would be those same experienced mesmers being liars, cheats, or people prone to misdirection or ill gotten gain. The thing is you’ll need to demonstrate those sorts of characteristics, those sorts of bias’s, if you want to play the bias card.
On the other side of things we have plenty of bad or inexperienced mesmers (a bad bias), and plenty of salty non-mesmer (bad bias), not to mention scrubs (bad bias), who might express their feelings profoundly, but ultimately are presenting mesmer poorly.
So yeah, let’s play the bias card. Avid mesmer-forum going mesmer mains are, generally speaking, giving clear and accurate representation of mesmer (and if they error, the rest of the community is quick to correct them). These are all good bias’. Meanwhile all the hyperbole, QQ, and lamentations from the opposition? Bad, awful, terrible bias.
Thanks for bringing it to the attention of the community :)
I’m very confused here can someone explain what exactly is so weak about mesmer in its current state and why it shouldn’t be considered a top tier spec for at least its condi build? What exactly are they lacking in are ppl upset just because portal and moa have shown to be key parts to the build and simply want to use something else. Its not like they’re even weak agasint consistent condi cleansing because no amount of condi cleansing can keep up with the actual application as most condi cleansing tool cds are far longer when compared.
One thing I’d like to point out is that, due to the build, general chrono features, and massive shift in amulet we can use, for the first time we’ve free’d up utility slots we couldnt before. Blink is still there and always will be. Portal is the single best pick for competative play. But it used to be the case that we had to run decoy (and things like staff in power builds, torch for the extra stealth, GS purely for its damage). But the game has shifted and we no longer are forced to take decoy (in all settings) and portal (outside of competitive). That’s huge. That’s crazy. For the first time we can look at our build, look at our situation, and pick a third utility unique to whatever job we have.
A bad bias would be those same experienced mesmers being liars, cheats, or people prone to misdirection or ill gotten gain.
Mesmers, prone to misdirection? Perish the thought! ;P
But honestly guys, something needs to be toned down or other classes to get buffed. The build condi mesmer could be nerfed but i would be careful with it since it could make mesmer unviable in high level play unless another build is found. Is there someone who thinks a nerf to continuum would be too big of a hit? Cuz i certainly dont, a cd nerf or no interaction with elite skills would be fine imo, then see how it is after the nerf and see if more needs to be nerfed. I think portal CD could be nerfed aswell, considering we just got a buff for alacrity.
(edited by Frostball.9108)
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.
Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.
Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.
It wont affect the game much but unless i understood wrong, people think mes doesnt need a nerf. A nerf to continuum cd and portal cd would not make mes garbage in pve.
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.
Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.
It wont affect the game much but unless i understood wrong, people think mes doesnt need a nerf. A nerf to continuum cd and portal cd would not make mes garbage in pve.
Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.
Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.
It wont affect the game much but unless i understood wrong, people think mes doesnt need a nerf. A nerf to continuum cd and portal cd would not make mes garbage in pve.
Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.
Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?
Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.
Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.
Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.
Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.
Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.
Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness. However yeah, most likely a normal dps build on mesmer still does quite little damage.
(edited by Frostball.9108)
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.
Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness.
Yes I’m aware the test was on a quickness/alacrity build in the link. There was also a discussion on the forums asking what people were getting for their DPS and the results were very similar to be honest. The highest I got for DPS was with 2 phantasmal warlock and a swordsman with all conditions on the golem, completely unreasonable but there we go. I believe it becomes better than a swordsman at 6 conditions which means it’s likely not much if at all better in a realistic scenario.
You might not care about base specs but I for one like diversity. Feeling like one of my trait lines is mandatory is taking away a significant amount of diversity whatever the class. I do however acknowledge ANet isn’t exactly trying to bring down the elite specs though.
Cool down increase on CS will always be a nerf to PvE mesmer no matter which way you cut it. The better question in my opinion is should CS be in the game? I mean what will it be next that people complain about, double signet of domination, double null fields? Then what happens when ANet buffs a useless utility and it becomes worth it on it’s own? Double it and you create the next problem.
I’d like it if ANet reduced all elite specs and took a good look at the state mesmer is in. It’s not in a great state outside of chronomancer and never was.
(edited by apharma.3741)
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.
Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness.
Yes I’m aware the test was on a quickness/alacrity build in the link. There was also a discussion on the forums asking what people were getting for their DPS and the results were very similar to be honest. The highest I got for DPS was with 2 phantasmal warlock and a swordsman with all conditions on the golem, completely unreasonable but there we go. I believe it becomes better than a swordsman at 6 conditions which means it’s likely not much if at all better in a realistic scenario.
You might not care about base specs but I for one like diversity. Feeling like one of my trait lines is mandatory is taking away a significant amount of diversity whatever the class. I do however acknowledge ANet isn’t exactly trying to bring down the elite specs though.
Cool down increase on CS will always be a nerf to PvE mesmer no matter which way you cut it. The better question in my opinion is should CS be in the game? I mean what will it be next that people complain about, double signet of domination, double null fields? Then what happens when ANet buffs a useless utility and it becomes worth it on it’s own? Double it and you create the next problem.
You could even just make moa incompatible with it, there are ways other than cd nerf. I think continuum is sort of a part of the chronomancer theme but i wouldnt mind too much if it got removed, almost just that skill makes chrono worth taking over other specs.
You could even just make moa incompatible with it, there are ways other than cd nerf. I think continuum is sort of a part of the chronomancer theme but i wouldnt mind too much if it got removed, almost just that skill makes chrono worth taking over other specs.
I definitely agree with that last part about CS making chrono worth it over other lines. Been running base mesmer out of choice in WvW and even picking up PU doesn’t compare with simply doubling up on MI for escape or using CS to double mirrorblade + mindwrack to cleave.
I love using CS, the combos, everything about it is fun but I just feel it’s a balancing nightmare and would hate to see mesmer in a state where everything is balanced around it being doubled up on.
Has there ever been a meta PvP Mesmer build that wasn’t considered OP?
The people whining need to think about that and what it says about their ability, the way they look at the game and the state of Mesmer.
The problem we have here is that Mesmer are super biased in this thread which is not surprising. The fact of the matter is mesmers do need to be toned down when it comes to moa and portal. I’ve hit legend twice and spvp last season and this season and did witness how broken these 2 skills can be. That’s especially the case now that necros, dragonhunters, scrappers got nerfed..sorry it’s your turn now
You must be new because Portal has never been broken in the sense that it’s overpowered. And it’s still clear that you’re new because Mesmer has probably been one of the only classes to have been nerfed every patch that it just completely destroys a build (except this patch).
Gain more bearing and come back to the table with more substance.
I post from a phone so please excuse any references to ducks or any other auto corrections.
The fact of the matter is mesmers do need to be toned down when it comes to moa and portal.
Two observations:
- Very few people play sPvP. Ignore its balance concerns, for the majority of players you don’t want to balance based on what a tiny minority would like.
- Even given that, Portal and Moa aren’t strong skills. Portal has an extremely long cooldown even for a Chronomancer, which makes it rather predictable in the best of cases, and unused in virtually all others. Opportunity cost. Same for Moa actually, given the CD the opportunity cost is too high.
Net result is that even if a tiny minority yell really loudly, most of us never see the skills being used. Because for much of the game they just flat out couldn’t matter any less. Unless you play only jumping puzzles and your best buddy plays a Mesmer, then yes, Portal is clearly OP :P
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
Hate to burst the bubble but Azukas is mostly on point with his stuff.
I kind of feel like I need to deny this just on principle. For a more nuanced take on what Azukas is really, really not on point, the replies in this thread (and others) do a better job than I could in this post.
Mesmers are the best 1v1 class in the game atm. This is coming from me who dueled countless mesmers, mesmer is my hardest matchup even on my ranger. Mesmers are not mainly gotten for Moa and port, its part of it but 1v1 ability is more of the deal breaker here.
Bull. But I do think you’ve hit on an important, maybe the important, point here. Mesmers are good at 1v1. They always have been; they were designed to be. We have an entire traitline called “Dueling,” for chrissake. People don’t like losing 1v1s; so when they do, they rage, they call the class that beat them OP. It’s happened to warriors. It’s happened to thieves. And it’s happened, over and over again, to Mesmers.
However, sPvP (and WvW, for that matter) isn’t based around 1v1 duels. You can sit on home or far the whole match, win every 1v1, and still lose the match because you can’t/don’t contribute jack to the teamfight. Team contribution is wildly more important; Mesmers aren’t bought because they can win 1v1, they’re brought because they can portal their team, and they can unbalance teamfights with Moa.
Saying Mesmer is OP because it can win 1v1s is like the people who said Mesmer was OP because they couldn’t kill it in WvW roaming; it betrays a frightening lack of knowledge of what wins (or loses) the game overall.
1v1s happen alllll the time in a competitive match.
Moa Port? yes these two are factors, but what about the metas that we didnt have mesmers?
Moa and Port existed since the launch of the game.
If you read what I wrote, I said they are also picked for Moa and Portal.
For the record when did say mesmer is OP?
1v1s happen all the time, but they also don’t decide the match. Moa has been substantially strengthened by the addition of CS; whether it’s OP (or it’s not), that increased use of it has correspondingly increased all the whining on the forums about it. Before, it was just a huge-CD elite that people took because they preferred it to MI, and what the hell else were they going to take?
And yes, portal has always been in the game. And it’s always been the one skill that gave Mesmers any use in PvP, even when everything else about the profession stunk to high heaven. Then, as now, mesmers were on teams almost entirely for portal; now, we just have a build beyond that one skill that doesn’t feel like banging our heads against concrete.
My apologies if you didn’t mean to say mesmers were OP; I thought that was pretty well implied by your agreement with Azukas.
Do you remember the mantra mesmer meta? only a few mesmers ran portal and moa.
No apologies needed, I just agreed with some his points, and I do not know if he is in fact saying mesmers are OP.
But in the pro league scene stuff he is right.
The mantra Mesmer was a meta?? It was a fluke that Anet quickly nerfed or stated was an accident. It also cost us an extra bounce on gs. That hasn’t been looked at.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.
See the pattern?
Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.
Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.
Kinda embarrassing that Frostball is the one explaining.
I bet half of the people here do not even know who he is. :/
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.
again i dont get this argument
moa and portal was there before so you only speak about CS which enable to doable moa alone. so portal is fine as it was fine long time ago.
so moa is the problem as it 80% of the time shut down ppl if it hits them. and the player not smart to kite dodge evade or his team dont support him
now the problem with the build
i am sure you rememeber the time mesmer could just 100-0 in 2 sec combo almost any class/build. ppl hate it cause ppl hate what they dont understand /see/ react/ or prevent them to react. so power mesmer got nerf while other got buff with direct dmg.
now after months of telling ppl why condi mesmer is op cause it shutdown almost any build out there with confusion and torment only now ppl QQ about it and take it with moa which is complete shutdown the QQ got stronger
now engi can fight mesmer on point also some good ranger build with condi cleanse
i think the problem is ppl forget about cleanse and drop 1 spot of utility for dmg/evade for it and now they QQ cause they dont have much cleanse
in pvp you must know that if you 1v1 for 1 min versus mesmer you have three options. try to win (low chances) , call for help for 1v2 which push the mesmer back of the point, leave the point and help somewhere else. condi build in the long run fight should win
why ppl stop QQ on necro with his condi bomb huge stack of poison and perma chill….
ppl hate to be moa and not smart to take more condi cleanse and 1v1 is not pvp at all you know that.
the only solution i can think of cause all the QQ is the turn CS to massive cd of skill and not recharge. like when using it each clone you had reduce cd of your skills by 15 sec . thus 4 clones are 60 sec so you got 30 sec more on moa cd. and for this nerf cs should give something else back. like if the rift is destroy or end it dos massive aoe dmg 360 r 5k unblockable or it heals you
but it will change all the concept or the mesmer controlling time
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.
See the pattern?
Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.
Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.
I take issue with this poor generalisation.
I personally never defended PU condi and never defended Chronobunker, and didn’t like playing either. Please don’t generalise and apply inaccurate statements to the people in this forum.
However as much as I’m not totally fond of shatter spam playstyle right now, I am fully defending the current condi shatter.
The only thing I don’t defend is
1. CS+Moa.
2. Persistence of Memory/Shield 4/Chronophantasma synergy.
1. is a case of preventing elite skill use with CS
2. is a case of looking at Shield 4, because any nerf to PoM or Cp will harm other weapons that are not Shield and force everyone to use Shield even more because everything else will suck. Unless every single phantasm skill has an additional active effect like Shield block, however I don’t see that happening any time soon…
Everything else is fine.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
Kinda embarrassing that Frostball is the one explaining.
I bet half of the people here do not even know who he is. :/
I’m sure they are aware.
In any case it is still one person’s point of view. Recall Helseth’s comments on scepter torment auto.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.
See the pattern?
Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.
Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.
The pattern yes. Enough QQ and it causes nerfs for any class not just ours. The problem is your attitude. Chronobunker could have been shaved. But it is not my game nor yours to cry foul or accept the nerfs(your position). The issue is we are just players. Ultimately Anet sees the direction not us. Why wouldn’t the same people that post in these forums have an idea other than yours or Anet.
Yes sticker we know who frostball is. And yea even they could be wrong. But again they like us are players.
My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build
Bolded parts for emphasis.
Because you need to stop right there and rethink your argument. What has a WvW solo roaming build got to do with spvp. What has a chrono bunker build that got nerfed out of the meta completely have to do with the balance of mesmer in spvp?
Nothing.
Make an argument that consists of more than “this is a fact!” or “you guys are biased!”, preferably using actual facts. (that you should be able to come up with easily, because as you said in this thread about a billion times, you play mesmer….. or do you.. dum dum duuuuum.)
Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.
By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.
This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.
I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.
Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness.
Yes I’m aware the test was on a quickness/alacrity build in the link. There was also a discussion on the forums asking what people were getting for their DPS and the results were very similar to be honest. The highest I got for DPS was with 2 phantasmal warlock and a swordsman with all conditions on the golem, completely unreasonable but there we go. I believe it becomes better than a swordsman at 6 conditions which means it’s likely not much if at all better in a realistic scenario.
You might not care about base specs but I for one like diversity. Feeling like one of my trait lines is mandatory is taking away a significant amount of diversity whatever the class. I do however acknowledge ANet isn’t exactly trying to bring down the elite specs though.
Cool down increase on CS will always be a nerf to PvE mesmer no matter which way you cut it. The better question in my opinion is should CS be in the game? I mean what will it be next that people complain about, double signet of domination, double null fields? Then what happens when ANet buffs a useless utility and it becomes worth it on it’s own? Double it and you create the next problem.
You could even just make moa incompatible with it, there are ways other than cd nerf. I think continuum is sort of a part of the chronomancer theme but i wouldnt mind too much if it got removed, almost just that skill makes chrono worth taking over other specs.
Making moa selectively incompatible with CS is probably the best solution at this point. Mesmer would still be solid in PvP, and it wouldn’t be nerfed in PvE.
I do recognize the balance issues with the concept of CS, but it’s too late to be changed. It’s a basic part of chrono and changing that would require a total rework of the spec — something that Anet is most definitely not going to be doing. It’ll be bandaid fixes from here on out.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.
See the pattern?
Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.
Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.
I take issue with this poor generalisation.
I personally never defended PU condi and never defended Chronobunker, and didn’t like playing either. Please don’t generalise and apply inaccurate statements to the people in this forum.
However as much as I’m not totally fond of shatter spam playstyle right now, I am fully defending the current condi shatter.
The only thing I don’t defend is
1. CS+Moa.
2. Persistence of Memory/Shield 4/Chronophantasma synergy.1. is a case of preventing elite skill use with CS
2. is a case of looking at Shield 4, because any nerf to PoM or Cp will harm other weapons that are not Shield and force everyone to use Shield even more because everything else will suck. Unless every single phantasm skill has an additional active effect like Shield block, however I don’t see that happening any time soon…Everything else is fine.
LOL I think you need to rethink your statements.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/showposts/Curunen-8729/1
Thanks for your support mate.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202
Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.
Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.
Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!
1) You’re comparing WvW 9 months ago to sPvP now. Unless you’re really going to make an argument that PU Condi was ever anything other than a cheesy noob-stomper in sPvP. At best.
2) PU Condi was good at two things: Winning 1v1s (if the opponent was foolish enough to not just leave), and escaping outnumbered fights. It ruled WvW roaming, except for being slower than sin, but it didn’t actually change the balance of WvW that much, since solo roaming… I mean, come on.
3) If you were losing matches to PU Condi in sPvP, that’s just an indication that you’re a bad sPvPer. It was an excellent duelist that couldn’t effectively hold a point, couldn’t meaningfully contribute to teamfights. It could stomp people who didn’t know how to dodge or cleanse, that’s about it. If that was you, that… explains a lot of your current angst.
4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.
5) “how great we mesmers have it” — You really spend a lot of time emphasizing how you’re totally, really, a real-life mesmer main. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you but… If someone can’t go an hour without spontaneously declaring “I’m human,” I start wondering if maybe they’re a semi-sentient colony of spiders wearing a fleshsuit, you know?
I think you missed the point of my post. My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build, and they are the EXACT same people who defended Chronobunker.
See the pattern?
Heck one of them even tries to use PvE balance to argue for leaving mesmers alone ROFLMAO.
Again we all owe Anet an apology and should be embarrassed for the behavior on this sub forum.
I take issue with this poor generalisation.
I personally never defended PU condi and never defended Chronobunker, and didn’t like playing either. Please don’t generalise and apply inaccurate statements to the people in this forum.
However as much as I’m not totally fond of shatter spam playstyle right now, I am fully defending the current condi shatter.
The only thing I don’t defend is
1. CS+Moa.
2. Persistence of Memory/Shield 4/Chronophantasma synergy.1. is a case of preventing elite skill use with CS
2. is a case of looking at Shield 4, because any nerf to PoM or Cp will harm other weapons that are not Shield and force everyone to use Shield even more because everything else will suck. Unless every single phantasm skill has an additional active effect like Shield block, however I don’t see that happening any time soon…Everything else is fine.
LOL I think you need to rethink your statements.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/showposts/Curunen-8729/1
Thanks for your support mate.
Eh? You don’t make sense – if you want to waste your time searching my post history, go ahead, but at least find something concrete…
If you go back far enough you may find posts where I hated on condi bunker builds in general and preferred power shatter…
Doesn’t change anything.
My point is the same people defending that build are the same ones who are defending this build
Bolded parts for emphasis.
Because you need to stop right there and rethink your argument. What has a WvW solo roaming build got to do with spvp. What has a chrono bunker build that got nerfed out of the meta completely have to do with the balance of mesmer in spvp?
Nothing.
Make an argument that consists of more than “this is a fact!” or “you guys are biased!”, preferably using actual facts. (that you should be able to come up with easily, because as you said in this thread about a billion times, you play mesmer….. or do you.. dum dum duuuuum.)
Kinda,addressed the build part of your reply in a previous post but I want to address the 2nd part.
My facts are true thus are facts. I say I main Mesmer simply because it’s foreign to people that there are mesmers out there who prioritise game balance over having their class OP
Sadly nothing new here. Azukas is right everyone else is wrong. He is using facts we are using facts. Just a giant kitten. At this point we should move on. My final thoughts. Actually this should be renamed Jerry springer post.
My facts are true thus are facts.
See, this is where the problem is. What you think are true facts are actually incorrect opinions, and no amount of weak tautology is going to change that.
Sadly nothing new here. Azukas is right everyone else is wrong. He is using facts we are using facts. Just a giant kitten. At this point we should move on. My final thoughts. Actually this should be renamed Jerry springer post.
Actually it should be named deleted because I have no idea what I’m talking about.
This entire thread reminds me of someone argueing for their favorite politican that they know is trash. The person sucks, policy sucks etc yet they still stick up for them and when logic and evidence starts to prevail they start shaming others, changing the topic, whatever they can do to keep the topic focused on what they want it on.
Example- Notice how the OP a couple pages ago was trying to prevent the post from getting on WvW and PvE balance(arguably bigger more important balance than PvP) but now, because it suits his needs he will talk about it to keep the subject on how OP Mesmer is.
Yes people, this is what is called argueing with a brick wall. You will get no where because the OP’s though process is so convoluted he can’t grasp anything other than his own opinion.
By the way, isn’t this the same guy who had his signature as playing a thief a while back? If so that explains a lot.
Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom
Not gonna bother responding to the actual topic (cause I think I already did and it won’t make a difference anyway… OP will happily ignore all the facts and claim to be omniscient and infallible/inerrant despite being proven wrong again and again).
But I really wanna ask who this Frostball person is, since everyone here seems to know… and I’ve never (at least not that I would remember) heard or read that name before it appeared in this thread, lol.