Guild Wars 2

STOP WHAT YOU ARE THINKING.

I know what you are thinking. A PvE condition build for a mesmer? Blasphemy confusion sucks, yata yata. Yea I get it.

Moving on here is the build:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-N;4VPkz007BVV71;9;4TJ9-926319-4;34;0K-V0-K0Fk0bUyGAhF0F71-J23dbs76-A0F1K2PZV40q-Fk1e;5k06Rk06R;9;9;9;9;0k0;3V6k3z

Weapon set up: Staff and Scepter/X

Traits: 30/20/10/0/10

Stats:

17,672 HP
2312 Armor
49% Crit (60% with perception)
2970 attack
1001 Condition damage
+100% bleeding duration
+90% burning duration
+100% confusion duration
+90% Vulnerability duration

Food: Rare Veggie pizza for condition duration and oil for crit chance.

You will be using 2 runes of the centuar for the bleeding duration, 2 runes of the mad king and 2 runes of lysaa for an extra 20% condition duration. This will give bleeding and burning it’s max number of ticks.

Armor set is full carrion and trinkets and jewelry are mixed (see link).

Staff: This is your main weapon you will be using. Alone it’s not great for condition stacking however staff clones are pretty nifty infliction conditions from their attacks too! With 3 clones + yourself you can easily get 15 stack of bleed running constantly on top of burning damage in between. Vulne is still nice, I will explain that a little later.

The sigil you will use is sigil of earth, even with a 2 sec ICD it’s still great source of Bleeding and you should be critting most of the time.

Scepter: The reason I pick scepter over sword is 2 reasons. 1) is that it’s a hybrid weapon of condition and power and 2) that it has a block. Your main goal to get staff clones will be using most of your dodges for clone generation so the block is added survival while all of scepters attack benefit from the power and condition damage from this build, while sword would only benefit from the power side.

Focus: I use focus whenever I need the temporal curtain or need to absorb projectiles (like the annoying fractal with the harpies).

Pistol: This is what I use when I don’t need focus because of moving targets or when I don’t need the projectile absorbing of Iwarden. Pistol takes full effect of this builds hybrid damage with bleed stacking and it’s base damage.

Offhandsword: I only use this when I can not apply conditions such as Fractal Ice boss

Traits:

30 in domination is a must. You need that 30% condition duration to reach the 100% cap for burning, bleeding, and confusion. The traits it self are very flexable and you can pick which ever you want. Since you will be shattering (explained later) I picked up rendering shatter and shattered concentration for vul and removing boons off foes. empowered illusions is obviously for your phantasms as the condition side of illusions does not benefit from this.

20 in dueling is again a must. Deceptive evasion is a must as your clone generation will be coming from dodging. And sharper images will give you more bleeds whenever your illusions crit (this counts for clones and phantasms) benefiting a lot from the builds hybrid stats. Critical infusion is another must, you should be geting 100% vigor upt ime and more dodging = more clones.

10 in chaos isn’t mandatory. I like for whenever my clones die (they will explode and give vul, bleeding stacks, or weakness all of which are really good). I highly recommend taking it but it’s not mandatory.

10 in illusions is mandatory though 33% confusion duration to reach the cap. As 90% condition duration will not get confusions extra 3 second duration, only 2 seconds. You also want Illusionary retribution so *all your shatters will inflict confusion. * This is a big chunk of damage.

How to Play

Like I said before your main weapon is a staff, and this is where it gets complicated. You will be dodging and using mirror images for your source of conditions. Opening is Phase retreat (get in combat first) followed by mirror images and then let the clones do all the work and watch the conditions stack up. Burning is deadly here, I mean freaken deadly it has the potential to proc often, as much as a guardian and with 100% condition duration it ticks twice for around 600 damage per tick. That is a lot.

Now when to shatter? This is the tricky party because its more of a priorty shatter.

1) When you can predict your clones are about to die shatter
2) When your illusion summoning skills are about to be back up shatter (phase retreat)
3) When you need an interrupt shatter
4) When you need to remove boons shatter
5) When you are about to dodge

Shatter priority is Diversion if the the mob isn’t going to attack a lot – Cry of frustration when the mob is going to attack a lot – Mind wrack if both are on CD. Use distortion if you need it.

Wait I know what you are thinking Diversion? Really? Yes really. The trait dazzling you pick up in the power line gives a 5 stack for 8 seconds (not including condition duration) whenever you daze a target. With 3 clones that is a 15 stack of vul, that is %15 more damage for your entire group.That is better then wasting cry on a mob that won’t attack often.

Now onto Iwarlock. Use Iwarlock as a filler for a clone when you can’t summon a clone. Ex is after you use Mirror and phase retreat and phase retreat is coming off CD you shatter so now you are going to use Phase retreat and dodge to make clones. But you feel weary and want to save an extra dodge just in case. In this instance you will use phase retreat + 1 dodge + Iwarlock and then wait to shatter for when phase retreat and your endurance is back up.

Chaos Armor is standard. When you are about to get hit use it.

Chaos storm is nifty. I shouldn’t have to explain when to use it but just to let you guys know whenever chaos storm dazes it also inflicts dazzling.* I’ve been able to get 20 stack of vul from chaos storm alone. * That’s some pretty good RNG but that vul increases group damage and is applied in stacks of 5. (now you know why Staff vulne from attack #1 isn’t so bad now). You will also get +70% vul duration so it last incredibly long (eat your heart out thieves).

Now where do scepter and focus/pistol come in? Switch to your off weapon set if any of the conditions are met:

-You need focus absorb projectiles
-You need a block (since you will be using dodge for clones)
-Your staff clones are dead thanks to mobs and can’t summon anymore (This is very important to watch for, there will be times where you won’t be able to summon staff clones leaving you a sitting duck, Pistol and Warden and scepter gives you something to do till you can).
-You can’t apply conditions to the boss or object
-You need better aoe (scepter 3 and Iwarden)
-Mobs are about to die and you need sigil stacks.

The shatter rules still apply in scepter, when your illusion summons are up and your illusion slots are full shatter them and pop um again. But you shouldn’t be in scepter for too long.

Commonly Asked Questions

Q: What is the total seconds I will be adding to my conditons?

A: For bleeding you will be getting an additional 6 seconds from the staff auto attack (4 seconds from sigil), Burning will get an additional 1 second, and confusion will be doubled the original duration and Vul will get an additional 5 from dazzling.

Q: Is this build good for WvW?

A: Yes and No, I will explain in a later post (there needs to be some trait shuffling around)

Q: What about in a group with other people playing with conditions?

A: The same as any other time. I recently grouped up with 2 other condition necros and we only hit the 25 bleed cap for a second before it dropped and I noticed by bleeding was ticking normally so my damage wasn’t suffering (not sure about theirs). However you also have burning to look forward too and Vul.

Not to mention confusion and you also have scepter/X if you need to stop with conditions. Staff also buffs other allies and gives them fury and might. So Condition mesmers suffer a lot less from multiple condition classes since the only thing their conditions bring is bleeding damage while we bring burning, vul, and buffs.

This is also a hybrid power/condition build so again you suffer less from other condition classes.

Q: Why stop at 1000 condition damage?

A: Conditions stop scaling well after a certain area. That area is between 900-1000 condition damage. If you look at the damage difference between 1000 and 1400 condition damage it is extremely minimal and not worth it at all (bleed only gains about 20ish damage which isn’t good for the amount of condition damage needed). That 400 stat is better spent in power since mesmers rely on both and there will be times where you can’t use conditions or you will be in a pug with other condition players (this is where power will help make up the lack of condition damage because of those players).

Q: Are the runes flexible?

A: NO, do not switch the runes. You need the condition duration. Specifically you need the 15% bleeding duration to reach that extra tick and you need the the other 20% for everything else

Q: How is underwater?

A: Overpowered as kitten. You can reach 25 stack of bleeding by yourself with trident.

Q: Are utility’s flexible?

A: Yes, you should be changing your utility’s based on the fight.

Q: Wouldn’t it be better just to stack pistol phantasms?

A: That is a different build entirely, it works but it is another build.

Q: What support do you get from this build?

A: Dazes, Weakness, chilling, cripple, projectile absorption, chaos armor combo fields, vulnerability, Might and fury for melee, boon removal, and various boon applications via chaos storm.

Q: Can I change the sigils?

A: The sigil on staff no. The sigil on scepter/X yes. I pick perception because you only get 49% crit chance in Best in slot gear which nobody really has. But if you do have full BiS you can drop perception for corruption if you want to lean for more condition damage or bloodlust for more power.

Reserved for WvW build

Reserved for the future

Reserved for future

Not bad, i have a question. Does your Earth sigil ever stop Battle from proccing? I had Superior Earth on my GS and it seemed to nearly always put my off hand Doom sigil on cool down when i switched.

I have been thinking about swapping it out for either another Doom or Battle as GS #2 is great for Might if positioned right.

I personally would remove the armor from it as not everyone will have them, same with all the accessories and just leave it as the lowest form as currently people with less gear with have less stats then what you are proposing.

The way the build is set up it just seems you are trying to do to much, with wanting it to be s Shatter, Condition and power build – guessing the phantoms are important as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Not bad, i have a question. Does your Earth sigil ever stop Battle from proccing? I had Superior Earth on my GS and it seemed to nearly always put my off hand Doom sigil on cool down when i switched.

I have been thinking about swapping it out for either another Doom or Battle as GS #2 is great for Might if positioned right.

I personally would remove the armor from it as not everyone will have them, same with all the accessories and just leave it as the lowest form as currently people with less gear with have less stats then what you are proposing.

The way the build is set up it just seems you are trying to do to much, with wanting it to be s Shatter, Condition and power build – guessing the phantoms are important as well.

Sigil of battle should not share an ICD with sigil of earth (weapon swaps and crit chance sigils shouldn’t share an ICD) if it does I will swap it for flat 5% damage.

I put everything on max for the best optimized. People can obviously downgrade if they want.

It’s not too much at one time. Yea it’s kinda a micro mangaging spec but it’s not taking more then it can chew. Phantasms are only used for fillers when you can’t make a clone or when you can’t apply conditions. Shattering is only when you have your clone summoning back up or you need to remove boons or interrupt. Illusions will be doing most of your work.

Mesmers conditions have also been a hybrid sort benefiting from both condition damage and power at the same time and since condition damage stops scaling well after a certain point its best to invest the rest in power.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

Sigils with cooldowns
All sigils that have a cooldown share the same cooldown timer; while the timer is active, no other sigil with a cooldown can trigger. For example, if you are using a Sigil of Fire (flame burst on critical) and a Sigil of Battle (might stacks on swap), you will have to wait after swapping weapons (Sigil of Battle activated) before the flame burst can trigger on critical.

Sigils will enter cooldown even if you do not gain any benefit. For example, a Sigil of Purity will trigger and enter the 10s cooldown even when the wearer has no conditions.
All things equal, the mainhand cooldown sigil will trigger before the offhand cooldown sigil.

Also, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_duration

Duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter of a second in skill tooltip’s list of effects (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s) and conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning and poison) only deal damage each full second. Condition duration from runes isn’t shown in the skill’s tooltip, but does correctly increase duration. Condition duration cannot be increased beyond 100%.

So 90% burning duration on the staff will give you 1.9 seconds = 2 ticks of burning.

zexion.5842:

Sigil of battle should not share an ICD with sigil of earth (weapon swaps and crit chance sigils shouldn’t share an ICD) if it does I will swap it for flat 5% damage.

I put everything on max for the best optimized. People can obviously downgrade if they want.

It’s not too much at one time. Yea it’s kinda a micro mangaging spec but it’s not taking more then it can chew. Phantasms are only used for fillers when you can’t make a clone or when you can’t apply conditions. Shattering is only when you have your clone summoning back up or you need to remove boons or interrupt. Illusions will be doing most of your work.

Mesmers conditions have also been a hybrid sort benefiting from both condition damage and power at the same time and since condition damage stops scaling well after a certain point its best to invest the rest in power.

I am pretty sure they do, i have seen from my doom sigil and earth sigil that if i weapon swap right after it has procc-ed (hard to actually tell) that the Doom sigil wont actually proc is is VERY annoying.

Yeah i run a Condition build myself, even ditched my Necro for it as its just so much more fun.

zexion.5842:

Q: Why stop at 1000 condition damage?

A: Conditions stop scaling well after a certain area. That area is between 900-1000 condition damage. If you look at the damage difference between 1000 and 1400 condition damage it is extremely minimal and not worth it at all (bleed only gains about 9 damage). That 400 stat is better spent in power since mesmers rely on both.

You have any proof on this? Makes me wonder if its worth running with Corruption Sigil and Sig of Dom. Without it i have 1,175 Condition Damage i do 101Condition damage and with Sig of Dom i have 1,343 Condition damage and that does around 111 Condition damage.

Though that doesnt seem like a lot, when i have like 10+ stacks (had it up to the 20s) that sort of damage adds up over the course of a fight.

I run Full Rabid gear.

http://gw2.hazno.net/

condition damage calculator

I will test sigil of earth and battle

The difference between 1000 and 1400 is 23 damage per bleed tick. Which isn’t amazing (for the amount of condition damage you have to invest) and is better off set by the amount of power or crit you can get. It’s also better for times where you can’t do conditions and all you have is your phantasms and scepter or sword. And if you have might it’s even more worth it to have lower condition damage as again the more you have the less you get in return after a certain point.

You are correct sigil of battle and earth share an ICD I will change it.

zexion.5842:

http://gw2.hazno.net/

condition damage calculator

I will test sigil of earth and battle

The difference between 1000 and 1400 is 23 damage per bleed tick. Which isn’t amazing (for the amount of condition damage you have to invest) and is better off set by the amount of power or crit you can get. It’s also better for times where you can’t do conditions and all you have is your phantasms and scepter or sword. And if you have might it’s even more worth it to have lower condition damage as again the more you have the less you get in return after a certain point.

Per a Bleed, how much damage would that be dealing over the course of a 1minute fight. Having 10stacks on at all times (which is VERY easy)? It all adds up. Though i think i will be looking into other gear with stats that dont include Condi damage, as i want to keep Sig of Dom for the CC think i will also replace my Corruption sigil as well

Thanks for the info, yeah i had a feeling that they shared a cooldown. Just need to decide what would be the better replacement. Thinking about Scepter = Might, Offhand = Doom and Greatsword Doom

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

zexion.5842:

http://gw2.hazno.net/

condition damage calculator

I will test sigil of earth and battle

The difference between 1000 and 1400 is 23 damage per bleed tick. Which isn’t amazing (for the amount of condition damage you have to invest) and is better off set by the amount of power or crit you can get. It’s also better for times where you can’t do conditions and all you have is your phantasms and scepter or sword. And if you have might it’s even more worth it to have lower condition damage as again the more you have the less you get in return after a certain point.

Per a Bleed, how much damage would that be dealing over the course of a 1minute fight. Having 10stacks on at all times (which is VERY easy)? It all adds up. Though i think i will be looking into other gear with stats that dont include Condi damage, as i want to keep Sig of Dom for the CC think i will also replace my Corruption sigil as well

Thanks for the info, yeah i had a feeling that they shared a cooldown. Just need to decide what would be the better replacement. Thinking about Scepter = Might, Offhand = Doom and Greatsword Doom

There is too many factors to risk full condition. If your clones die, fights where conditions aren’t going to work, world bosses, grouped up with 4 other condition players.

The added power should off set the loss of condition damage (because of condition damage scaling) and be better for more situations.

I also can’t remember where I researched it but around 2800 attack is ideal for Staff/scepter power damage portion. So that’s what I was originally aiming for while keeping condition damage high.

I am far from full condition, Using the Greatsword adds that extra damage, combined with iZerker and the bleed on crits, the trait for reduced cool down and Mirror Blade means quick clone and Phantom spawns as well, the added Might and Interrupt is very nice as well.

I have 2,100 Attack, 1,399 Condition damage, 42% Crit Chance and 2,684 Armor (1,869 Toughness) i run full Undead runes as well

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I am far from full condition, Using the Greatsword adds that extra damage, combined with iZerker and the bleed on crits, the trait for reduced cool down and Mirror Blade means quick clone and Phantom spawns as well, the added Might and Interrupt is very nice as well.

I have 2,100 Attack, 1,399 Condition damage, 42% Crit Chance and 2,684 Armor (1,869 Toughness) i run full Undead runes as well

Like I said dropping some condition damage for more power/attack would be a better all around trade off. Especially with might stacking.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

Sigils with cooldowns
All sigils that have a cooldown share the same cooldown timer; while the timer is active, no other sigil with a cooldown can trigger. For example, if you are using a Sigil of Fire (flame burst on critical) and a Sigil of Battle (might stacks on swap), you will have to wait after swapping weapons (Sigil of Battle activated) before the flame burst can trigger on critical.

Sigils will enter cooldown even if you do not gain any benefit. For example, a Sigil of Purity will trigger and enter the 10s cooldown even when the wearer has no conditions.
All things equal, the mainhand cooldown sigil will trigger before the offhand cooldown sigil.

Also, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_duration

Duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter of a second in skill tooltip’s list of effects (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s) and conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning and poison) only deal damage each full second. Condition duration from runes isn’t shown in the skill’s tooltip, but does correctly increase duration. Condition duration cannot be increased beyond 100%.

So 90% burning duration on the staff will give you 1.9 seconds = 2 ticks of burning.

Thanks I’ll switch to runes of lyssa and mad king for the best optimization.

I will be doing math and chaning the spec to accommodate the change to confusion duration.

One comment about runes; have you considered 2 Lyssa, 2 mad king and 2 major mad king runes? That gives you 27% condition duration across the board, rather than just bleed/burning duration. It would mean longer bleeds, but also longer confusion / blinds / cripples /dazes, etc.

zexion.5842:

There is too many factors to risk full condition. If your clones die, fights where conditions aren’t going to work, world bosses, grouped up with 4 other condition players.

The added power should off set the loss of condition damage (because of condition damage scaling) and be better for more situations.

I also can’t remember where I researched it but around 2800 attack is ideal for Staff/scepter power damage portion. So that’s what I was originally aiming for while keeping condition damage high.

I think a hybrid build is fine, and not all damage has to come from conditions, but this logic is flawed. Your hybrid damage may increase your personal dps, even when grouped with other condition players – so you don’t feel useless. Unfortunately, it will still hamper the group’s dps to be exceeding the bleed cap. You will wind up either ruining your own dps or another player’s dps…either way, you wind up with the following equation: 1 player + 1 player = 1.5 players worth of damage. Playing a hybrid build in PvE is the same as playing a condition build, in that you can’t group up with lots of other condition builds and expect decent group dps. Again, since you’re a hybrid, you may feel like you’re still putting out good dps, but your mediocre bleeds will be overwriting a condition necro’s awesome bleeds…thereby reducing the group’s damage output.

So bottom line; a hybrid build may do better than a pure condition build by itself or it may not (this probably has a lot to do with personal preference/play-style). In a group, they both have the same limitations. You need to be aware of the other condition builds in the group, and make sure you’re not stepping on eachother. At what point should you start considering yourself a condition build? I think if your build routinely puts 10+ stacks of bleeds on an opponent, then you need to act as if you are a full condition build when grouping for PvE. Even if you are wearing full berzerker armor, and those bleeds are only ticking for 50 dmg: They are still impacting the group dps, if there is another condition build in the group, and so you need to be considerate.

bobross.5034:

One comment about runes; have you considered 2 Lyssa, 2 mad king and 2 major mad king runes? That gives you 27% condition duration across the board, rather than just bleed/burning duration. It would mean longer bleeds, but also longer confusion / blinds / cripples /dazes, etc.

I did the math and 27% isn’t enough for an extra bleed tick from staff and earth sigil. However you do get the extra tick from confusion which would free up 5 points in illusions and you can put the 5 points in dueling for the extra crit and confusion when clones die.

I tried to remove 5 points from domination (to get 10 extra points to put in chaos) but then the condition duration numbers go out of whack which isn’t a good trade off.

But is it worth it over the loss of condition damage and bleed tick? That is 93 extra damage a tick so I don’t think I’ll change around the runes much but I’ll add 2 rune of lyssa and 2 rune of the mad king.

Changed the spec to updated runes. Explanation will be added.

zexion.5842:

http://gw2.hazno.net/
The difference between 1000 and 1400 is 23 damage per bleed tick. Which isn’t amazing (for the amount of condition damage you have to invest) and is better off set by the amount of power or crit you can get.

First off, the difference is 20 not 23. Using the calculator you linked:
Condi DMG/Bleed Tick
0/43
400/63
800/83
1200/103
1600/123
Basically +20 per bleed tick for every +400 condition dmg. By your logic, any condition damage above zero isn’t amazing/worth it because zero condition damage gives 43 per tick and each +400 condi dmg only gives +20 bleed. Ideally, you have 25 stacks of might in a group, so “baseline” condition damage actually does 83 per tick.

Since this is a PvE build, nothing counters condition damage. (Well… strucutres and allies do but Bob covered that)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage
Meanwhile, power damage is inversely proportional to enemy armor. Since armor depends heavily on the dungeon/fight, any “ideal mix” of power/condition ratio is crap because that “ideal” ratio compares apples to oranges.

If only arena net added a “blue” health bar that is highly resistant to power damage and protects the red health bar, then hybrids/condition builds would have their place in PvE. Then we could shoot red blue or green lasers at the elder dragons depending on vigil/order/priory we join >_>

Added a sigil replacement for the Q and A section

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

zexion.5842:

http://gw2.hazno.net/
The difference between 1000 and 1400 is 23 damage per bleed tick. Which isn’t amazing (for the amount of condition damage you have to invest) and is better off set by the amount of power or crit you can get.

First off, the difference is 20 not 23. Using the calculator you linked:
Condi DMG/Bleed Tick
0/43
400/63
800/83
1200/103
1600/123
Basically +20 per bleed tick for every +400 condition dmg. By your logic, any condition damage above zero isn’t amazing/worth it because zero condition damage gives 43 per tick and each +400 condi dmg only gives +20 bleed. Ideally, you have 25 stacks of might in a group, so “baseline” condition damage actually does 83 per tick.

Since this is a PvE build, nothing counters condition damage. (Well… strucutres and allies do but Bob covered that)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage
Meanwhile, power damage is inversely proportional to enemy armor. Since armor depends heavily on the dungeon/fight, any “ideal mix” of power/condition ratio is crap because that “ideal” ratio compares apples to oranges.

If only arena net added a “blue” health bar that is highly resistant to power damage and protects the red health bar, then hybrids/condition builds would have their place in PvE. Then we could shoot red blue or green lasers at the elder dragons depending on vigil/order/priory we join >_>

Granted.

In a solo setting it will probably be better with more condition damage over power (but you will still fight things that conditions won’t work on). In a group setting where you will be getting might and such I would go with the extra power and let might pick up the loss in condition damage.

Really both ways work, but the hybrid way makes more sense for mind wrack, scepter, pistol, GS (if you want) or whatever and is a better trade off.

zexion.5842:

Q: Can I change the sigils?

A: The sigil on staff no. The sigil on scepter/X yes. I pick perception because you only get 49% crit chance in Best in slot gear. However if you have BiS gear you can drop sigil of perception for bloodlust or corruption.

zexion.5842:

Q: Why stop at 1000 condition damage?

A: Conditions stop scaling well after a certain area. That area is between 900-1000 condition damage. If you look at the damage difference between 1000 and 1400 condition damage it is extremely minimal and not worth it at all (bleed only gains about 20ish damage which isn’t good for the amount of condition damage needed). That 400 stat is better spent in power since mesmers rely on both and there will be times where you can’t use conditions.

Surely these 2 are contradictory?
If 1,000 condition damage is enough and any more is minimal increase in damage why would you take corruption? As this would add like 15(or so) damage do conditions, wouldnt Power be better for the overall attack? or even go for something like Battle or Doom?

Or, as its a PvE build does it not really matter that much?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

zexion.5842:

Q: Can I change the sigils?

A: The sigil on staff no. The sigil on scepter/X yes. I pick perception because you only get 49% crit chance in Best in slot gear. However if you have BiS gear you can drop sigil of perception for bloodlust or corruption.

zexion.5842:

Q: Why stop at 1000 condition damage?

A: Conditions stop scaling well after a certain area. That area is between 900-1000 condition damage. If you look at the damage difference between 1000 and 1400 condition damage it is extremely minimal and not worth it at all (bleed only gains about 20ish damage which isn’t good for the amount of condition damage needed). That 400 stat is better spent in power since mesmers rely on both and there will be times where you can’t use conditions.

Surely these 2 are contradictory?
If 1,000 condition damage is enough and any more is minimal increase in damage why would you take corruption? As this would add like 15(or so) damage do conditions, wouldnt Power be better for the overall attack? or even go for something like Battle or Doom?

Or, as its a PvE build does it not really matter that much?

Both ways work, but I’m in the middle of editing all my posts and missed a few things.

Edited some things from “fact” to personal opinion/experiences.

Where exactly (especially considering your “How to Play” section) does the Power come into the build?

The staff autoattack does pitiful damage. You don’t want to use scepter aa because that overwrites staff clones. You can’t have phantasms up for the same reason. You only want to shatter when absolutely necessary.

You say you take the scepter for the block. But why not take the sword for Blurred Frenzy, which won’t get you killed on stray AoEs? Plus you can trait for cooldown reduction because your phantasms won’t have much uptime to use Fury with. Obviously switch to scepter if you know an upcoming boss uses attacks that can be blocked, but not evaded.

Also, a single Giver’s weapon (+runes and pizza) will let you reach 77% condition duration without a single point in Domination, with 75% being the “magic number” to get a second burn tick. On paper you should still have +100% confusion duration, only the bleeds will suffer a bit. I haven’t done the math, but it’s something to consider.

Forgot to mention this sooner
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Koi_Cake
Super cheap and is statistically the same as pizza. It only lasts 20 minutes but its 52 copper each instead of 4 silver.

“Duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter of a second in skill tooltip’s list of effects (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s) and conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning and poison) only deal damage each full second.”
+77% burning rounds to 1.75 seconds of burn. This is only 1 tick of burning unless you are hoping for easier chain burns with clones/aa.
You need to reach +87.6% or basically +90% for a 1 second condition to be 2 ticks.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

“Duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter of a second in skill tooltip’s list of effects (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s) and conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning and poison) only deal damage each full second.”
+77% burning rounds to 1.75 seconds of burn. This is only 1 tick of burning unless you are hoping for easier chain burns with clones/aa.
You need to reach +87.6% or basically +90% for a 1 second condition to be 2 ticks.

Odd, people keep saying the duration is rounded up to the nearest quarter. Then again the wiki only mentions the tooltips, not the actual duration. And we should know how wrong those are.

It is easy enough to test but I’m not home at the moment. Just get to +75%, auto attack something until burn procs. See if it does 1 or 2 burns.

Photoloss.4817:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

“Duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter of a second in skill tooltip’s list of effects (0s, ¼, ½, ¾ and 1s) and conditions which inflict damage over time (bleeding, burning and poison) only deal damage each full second.”
+77% burning rounds to 1.75 seconds of burn. This is only 1 tick of burning unless you are hoping for easier chain burns with clones/aa.
You need to reach +87.6% or basically +90% for a 1 second condition to be 2 ticks.

Odd, people keep saying the duration is rounded up to the nearest quarter. Then again the wiki only mentions the tooltips, not the actual duration. And we should know how wrong those are.

It rounds up if it’s .9 or higher. It’s rounded down if it’s anything below

Photoloss.4817:

Where exactly (especially considering your “How to Play” section) does the Power come into the build?

The staff autoattack does pitiful damage. You don’t want to use scepter aa because that overwrites staff clones. You can’t have phantasms up for the same reason. You only want to shatter when absolutely necessary.

You say you take the scepter for the block. But why not take the sword for Blurred Frenzy, which won’t get you killed on stray AoEs? Plus you can trait for cooldown reduction because your phantasms won’t have much uptime to use Fury with. Obviously switch to scepter if you know an upcoming boss uses attacks that can be blocked, but not evaded.

Also, a single Giver’s weapon (+runes and pizza) will let you reach 77% condition duration without a single point in Domination, with 75% being the “magic number” to get a second burn tick. On paper you should still have +100% confusion duration, only the bleeds will suffer a bit. I haven’t done the math, but it’s something to consider.

- Staff power damage isn’t as strong but it’s still damage, also you will be using Iwarlock more often then you think which scales better with power and you will want power when you switch to your off set.

-If you read the guide fully it explains when to switch to scepter.

-I take scepter over sword because it benefits more from condition/power hybrid

-The traits are there for a given reason also explain in the guide. Givers weapon is crap ton of stats lost for 10% condition duration and since conditions scale to the nearest quarter it’s not worth it and no other trait line really stands out as better except maybe chaos with the staff trait.

zexion.5842:

- Staff power damage isn’t as strong but it’s still damage, also you will be using Iwarlock more often then you think which scales better with power and you will want power when you switch to your off set.

-If you read the guide fully it explains when to switch to scepter.

-I take scepter over sword because it benefits more from condition/power hybrid

-The traits are there for a given reason also explain in the guide. Givers weapon is crap ton of stats lost for 10% condition duration and since conditions scale to the nearest quarter it’s not worth it and no other trait line really stands out as better except maybe chaos with the staff trait.

First of all I apologize, looks like my post came across slightly more negative/ignorant than intended.

The point on giver’s weapons is moot if conditions aren’t rounded up. If they were it might be better to go 0/20/25/0/25 for full conditions, picking up IC, extra bounces and might on shatter. 6s recharge on Phase Retreat would go a long way towards fixing the “your staff clones are dead” problem. One can dream

As for scepter I know it deals more damage in a non-zerker spec, but to me it just feels so …clunky as a defensive swap. I actually died to the freaking fire elemental once because the “jump” on the counterattack teleported me right into an AoE! I’d rather have the guaranteed “panic button” of the sword and sacrifice the dps. Sword also gives boon stripping and a leap+snare while scepter gives only damage.

Has anyone tested the raw dps of this build vs. pure conditions?

@Duck

• Condition Durations are rounded in the tooltip but applied precisely. Trying to get 1.9 burning just so it shows “2s” is pointless
• How exactly fractions of conditions are applied is not known (for the players) yet. Especially when stacking. e.g. if 1.5s always applies a single tick, with 2×1.5s apply 2 or 3 ticks ? It’s also possible that 1.9s has a 90% chance on dealing a second hit (depending on when it’s inflicted). But it’s not known.

@TS

• So … “w/ Support” you say … you’re only talking about Staff #5, right ?
• So … where’s the “power” in your build ?
• Technically you made a condition only build.
• Giver’s weapons are nice if you make a condition build. Unfortunately they lack for two-handed weapons. It might replace some runes without much cost.
• As condition mesmer with 15 pts in dueling, you should also consider using some minor rampager equips.

Did some tests in the mists and still got single-tick burns with what should have been + 95% duration (+45% from runes, 30 points in Domination and 2 sigils of smoldering), more than a possibly expected 5% too.

The wiki claims the sigils are broken, but then I had + 75% duration and still got a lot of double ticks.

I think the only way to be sure is to go + 100% duration, which would require either a Giver’s weapon (30Dom, pizza, lyssa+mad king runes, giver weapon) or specific runes+traits (for bleeds, burning and confusion you need pizza, 30Dom, 10Illusions and 2runes+sigil)

Neither option sounds feasible and you’d definitely have to fully spec for conditions to get any decent return on such a heavy investment.

Uh.. Why does the build title say w/ support? Its a bit misleading.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Why does the build title say w/ support? Its a bit misleading.

It’s in the guide…

Staff 1 boons (You plus 3 clones)
High Vul stacking (Damage for your whole group)
Some interrupts
Chaos storm
Etheral combo finisher
Time warp
Warden absorb projectiles
Weakness if clones die

Photoloss.4817:

Did some tests in the mists and still got single-tick burns with what should have been + 95% duration (+45% from runes, 30 points in Domination and 2 sigils of smoldering), more than a possibly expected 5% too.

The wiki claims the sigils are broken, but then I had + 75% duration and still got a lot of double ticks.

I think the only way to be sure is to go + 100% duration, which would require either a Giver’s weapon (30Dom, pizza, lyssa+mad king runes, giver weapon) or specific runes+traits (for bleeds, burning and confusion you need pizza, 30Dom, 10Illusions and 2runes+sigil)

Neither option sounds feasible and you’d definitely have to fully spec for conditions to get any decent return on such a heavy investment.

Condition duration isn’t transferred to clones in Spvp sadly only wvw and PvE but I did testing on this and I’m getting 2 ticks of burning in PvE and wvw with +90% condition duration.

Nretep.2564:

@TS

• So … “w/ Support” you say … you’re only talking about Staff #5, right ?
• So … where’s the “power” in your build ?
• Technically you made a condition only build.
• Giver’s weapons are nice if you make a condition build. Unfortunately they lack for two-handed weapons. It might replace some runes without much cost.
• As condition mesmer with 15 pts in dueling, you should also consider using some minor rampager equips.

-Support is classified by things other then boons
-Every attack has a power damage portion
-Technically I didn’t with 1759 power and 2750 attack
-It just negatively mixes up the numbers both in damage and general confusion. I’ll wait for the next 10% 2 set rune.