Guild Wars 2

@thetarot

Thanks for sharing the list of runes with boon durations. While I do agree that using Traveler’s rune would be redundant on the movement speed, the other stats on it makes it still valuable (all stats boost is nice and our wells/weapons can provide some conditions). Also, there is a possibility that new runes will be introduce in HoT.

Adding to the boon duration list, Giver’s give +1% boon duration per item. as well as toughness and healing power. There’s also platinum doubloon that gives +4 instead of the snowflakes’ +1 for upgrade slots. For those who’re wondering, excluding runes, consumables, and Herald and going all Giver’s gear, the total +boon duration will be +67%:

Giver’s armor (x6): 6%
Snowflake jewels (amulet/2 rings/2 accessories): 5%
Platinum doubloon (x14 if use on all upgrade slots): 56%

And sadly, boon duration cannot be increased beyond 100%. However, the wiki stats that “even if the maximum increase is 100%, tooltips will show durations beyond this limit”.

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Ok Im really late to the party, I read up until some stuff with scepter on page two and then lost track.
What’s the current discussion point?

Personally I was planning on running domi-duel-chrono with sword/pistol-sword/shield.
I am aware that weapons like scepter and staff are going to get some more viablity but depending on the amount of time invested in a fight, as well as the amount of targets you have, these will all get their own time to shine.
I dont usually talk on the forum here because I simply don’t have a lot of time, but as I need to update the dulfy guide in october I think Im sort of obligated to now

Long story short:

General concept is a build that neglects personal dps in favor of party dps. You keep close to permanent alacrity and quickness on your entire party. The way you do this is with traited wells, shield, and time warp primarily. By cycling wells and possibly shield phantasms, you can have ~35-40 seconds of alacrity in a 45 second cycle time. By cycling wells, shield 5, and time warp, you can have 35-40 seconds of quickness in that same 45 second cycle time.

Doing this requires some boon duration. If you happen to have a herald in the party, you can rely on their 50% aura and not worry about it personally. If you don’t, you’re going to need to run chaos for upkeep on boons and the boon duration boost of chaotic persistence.

Edit: Will elaborate some more.

When I ran it, I used sw/shield + staff. Staff allowed me to get 2 illusions up at 1200 range, followed by a third from iLeap to immediately begin a full cSplit combo at the very start of a fight safely. It also augmented my boon upkeep, which allowed for more boon duration.

In situations where I needed some reflects, I’d swap out well of calamity in favor of feedback.

Ultimately in a proper team, you’ll have a herald and therefor won’t need chaos or staff for the boon upkeep on chaotic persistence. This allows you to go for a more normal offhand like focus for reflects or sw/pistol for damage. It also allows you to either pick up inspiration if you need reflects, or domination/dueling if you want to try and do some more damage.

Re Scepter: While it does gain on dps compared to sword when you apply permanent alacrity, it doesn’t gain enough to out-dps it in most situations, particularly when you factor in the 10% damage boost sword is getting.

Re Staff: It definitely doesn’t have the dps of sword, particularly in a power build. That being said, chaos storm is a pretty solid damage skill, along with being the only source of team aegis that a mesmer can provide. With the staff trait and permanent alacrity, the cooldown on it is going to be around 13-15 seconds cooldown, which is quite low. It also allows you to summon those 2 illusions at 1200 range, which really improves the reliability of the opening combo.

“In situations where I needed some reflects, I’d swap out well of calamity in favor of feedback.

Ultimately in a proper team, you’ll have a herald and therefor won’t need chaos or staff for the boon upkeep on chaotic persistence. This allows you to go for a more normal offhand like focus for reflects or sw/pistol for damage. It also allows you to either pick up inspiration if you need reflects, or domination/dueling if you want to try and do some more damage.

Re Scepter: While it does gain on dps compared to sword when you apply permanent alacrity, it doesn’t gain enough to out-dps it in most situations, particularly when you factor in the 10% damage boost sword is getting."

Yeah, basically this. This was mostly what I was trying to say in the thread.

@Sanderinoa

“I don’t know THAT much about revenants, but someone mentioned earlier that their might upkeep is around 16 stacks, which only leaves about 9 to be filled. This is extremely easy to fill in as you only need 3 blasts, and eles have one on their heal anyways.”

Yeah I didn’t think about the might from ele blasting plus not needing the utility IB so you can take another blast finisher if you need. That being said for this revenant might does that assume strength runes?

“Im aware of scepter’s faster rate in melee but the aftercast on the 3rd skill still makes it slower. I’d say scepter 3 allows the weapon to match sword until the foe count goes up from 1 to anything more, you seemed to have RE’d something similar so that’s fine.”

But what about the clone summon/10% AA boost to sword?

@Bacon ( yum )

Yeah, I can agree.

@Alpha

“As far as phantasm rotations go, I’d suggest (one if the points I made early in the thread) that focusing on getting a full 3-phant roster isn’t going to work out well, as you need to shatter a lot to be getting the alacrity you need, which interferes with the periodic waits that you need to sustain 3.”

But why do you actually need that alacrity?

@anyone like MONKEYS?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!

Also, with this whole chaos thing, how much might can it give out exactly? And how much with strength runes? And would it be a DPS increase to use strength runes compared to scholars if you run chaos? Just wondering if I should replace my runes for swiftness to runes of strength for when I pug or not. I presume so because in pugs it’s harder to maintain scholar.

Re: Traveler Runes

I used traveler runes because they’re the only runes in the game with both boon duration and offensive stats. That’s pretty much it. If you run with a herald, by all means ditch those things for something actually good.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@Sanderinoa

“I don’t know THAT much about revenants, but someone mentioned earlier that their might upkeep is around 16 stacks, which only leaves about 9 to be filled. This is extremely easy to fill in as you only need 3 blasts, and eles have one on their heal anyways.”

Yeah I didn’t think about the might from ele blasting plus not needing the utility IB so you can take another blast finisher if you need. That being said for this revenant might does that assume strength runes?

“Im aware of scepter’s faster rate in melee but the aftercast on the 3rd skill still makes it slower. I’d say scepter 3 allows the weapon to match sword until the foe count goes up from 1 to anything more, you seemed to have RE’d something similar so that’s fine.”

But what about the clone summon/10% AA boost to sword?

As for the strength runes, I havent played revenant and am just using the data provided earlier in the thread claiming 16 stacks.

Secondly, the clone summon is an issue on scepter still as long as you keep up 3 illusions, Im aware many here plan on playing with a ton of shatters so it won’t matter too much.
In my playstyle however, I dont think it’ll be beneficial, as you’ll likely blow up one of your duelists with it. Whether you can consistently keep up 3 phantasms in the first place is questionable though.
The 10% extra damage only emphasizes my point, it’ll keep sword above scepter as I already implied in that post, maybe I shouldve made it more clear.

Sanderinoa.8065:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@Sanderinoa

“I don’t know THAT much about revenants, but someone mentioned earlier that their might upkeep is around 16 stacks, which only leaves about 9 to be filled. This is extremely easy to fill in as you only need 3 blasts, and eles have one on their heal anyways.”

Yeah I didn’t think about the might from ele blasting plus not needing the utility IB so you can take another blast finisher if you need. That being said for this revenant might does that assume strength runes?

“Im aware of scepter’s faster rate in melee but the aftercast on the 3rd skill still makes it slower. I’d say scepter 3 allows the weapon to match sword until the foe count goes up from 1 to anything more, you seemed to have RE’d something similar so that’s fine.”

But what about the clone summon/10% AA boost to sword?

As for the strength runes, I havent played revenant and am just using the data provided earlier in the thread claiming 16 stacks.

Secondly, the clone summon is an issue on scepter still as long as you keep up 3 illusions, Im aware many here plan on playing with a ton of shatters so it won’t matter too much.
In my playstyle however, I dont think it’ll be beneficial, as you’ll likely blow up one of your duelists with it. Whether you can consistently keep up 3 phantasms in the first place is questionable though.
The 10% extra damage only emphasizes my point, it’ll keep sword above scepter as I already implied in that post, maybe I shouldve made it more clear.

Yeah OK, was just curious about that revenant thing.

And OK, I thought you were saying vs 1 target is was better to go with 1 scepter and I was wondering why. That would explain it.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@Alpha
But why do you actually need that alacrity?

Having answered you on this at least 4 times myself in this thread, in addition to the times Pyro ALSO answered this question, and
Having already said I’m not gonna engage with you anymore, only noticing this because Sanderinoa replied to you (perhaps unwisely),
I’ll suggest you actually read the rest of the kitten thread for this answer.

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@Alpha
But why do you actually need that alacrity?

Having answered you on this at least 4 times myself in this thread, in addition to the times Pyro ALSO answered this question, and
Having already said I’m not gonna engage with you anymore, only noticing this because Sanderinoa replied to you (perhaps unwisely),
I’ll suggest you actually read the rest of the kitten thread for this answer.

Ok well, I looked back some and couldn’t find anything so I’ll just say this one more time. You will already have 30+ seconds of alacrity with only shattering when it’s a DPS increase. The only thing shattering off cd does is provide more alacrity for you. 30+ seconds of alacrity for you is already enough during the fight. Caps for emphasis. THE ONLY TIME MORE ALACRITY IS USEFUL IS IF CS WOULDN’T BE OFF CD FOR THE NEXT FIGHT BUT WITH SHATTERING OFF CD THAT WOULD CHANGE. But to even know this you would need to play with the same 4 people all the time. And I’d imagine these cases will not be the norm. If anyone has actually replied to this I’d love to here the reply, but I read all the posts people reply so I really don’t think its slipped past me over 4 times. If your not willing to say it again, could you at least link me to where you did say something about this? I mean if your willing to say as much as you have in your comment, you can at least link me where you replied to this I hope?

“Sanderinoa replied to you (perhaps unwisely)”

How was it unwise? We had a perfectly normal conversation. Nothing bad about it at all.

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

I should have been more clear. Staff will summon illusions that remain at 1200 range, out of reach of nasty boss stuff. Greatsword summons them on target, which is unhealthy for illusions, particularly at the beginning of a fight.

Re: Herald 15 might upkeep

I achieved this with Hoelbrak runes actually, as strength runes didn’t come with the package.

Edit: I can do a bit of math for this real quick. The facet of strength pulses 1 stack of might every 3 seconds with a base duration of 12 seconds. With hoelbrak runes (+30% might duration) this ends up at 16 seconds, which gets you a total upkeep of 5 might permanently.

However, there’s a trait that makes the rev apply might (8s duration) to allies when they apply any boon to them (1s icd). With hoelbrak runes, this goes to about 10 seconds. Since you’ll have multiple facets active, this ends up being an additional stack of might roughly once every 1.5 seconds, for a total added upkeep of about 6 stacks.

Together, this gets us to 11 stacks permanently. Popping facet of nature for an additional 50% duration pushes that to ~15.

Fay.2357:

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

I should have been more clear. Staff will summon illusions that remain at 1200 range, out of reach of nasty boss stuff. Greatsword summons them on target, which is unhealthy for illusions, particularly at the beginning of a fight.

Re: Herald 15 might upkeep

I achieved this with Hoelbrak runes actually, as strength runes didn’t come with the package.

OK, ty. How much without hoelbrak? If eles can provide 12 might revenant might be able to go scholar if he decides to go the might rought.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ok well, I looked back some and couldn’t find anything so I’ll just say this one more time. You will already have 30+ seconds of alacrity with only shattering when it’s a DPS increase. The only thing shattering off cd does is provide more alacrity for you. 30+ seconds of alacrity for you is already enough during the fight. Caps for emphasis. THE ONLY TIME MORE ALACRITY IS USEFUL IS IF CS WOULDN’T BE OFF CD FOR THE NEXT FIGHT BUT WITH SHATTERING OFF CD THAT WOULD CHANGE. But to even know this you would need to play with the same 4 people all the time. And I’d imagine these cases will not be the norm. If anyone has actually replied to this I’d love to here the reply, but I read all the posts people reply so I really don’t think its slipped past me over 4 times.

All those times that we pointed out that you need alacrity to reset your own skills for the next fight. Since this has been said many, many times now, and YOU’VE RESPONDED AT LEAST ONCE to those, it’s clear either
1. YOU JUST LIED about reading the rest of the thread, or
2. YOU JUST LIED about not having seen an answer about why you’d need more alacrity, because you’ve responded to such an answer already, earlier in the conversation.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Sanderinoa replied to you (perhaps unwisely)”

How was it unwise? We had a perfectly normal conversation. Nothing bad about it at all.

See the above lies.
You are toxic in conversation, not just because you get rude (who doesn’t, at times?), but because you don’t read what people write, you make broad assertions without evidence (and refuse to attempt to provide such), you go further to insist that your assertions are conclusive even after being called on lack of evidence, you dispute facts that have evidence while having no backing to your own position, your arguments often make no kitten sense, and you occasionally lie about your role in the conversation. All of the above is obstructive to constructive conversation in a forum setting.

These are the reasons I ceased to engage with you, and the reasons I would recommend that Sanderinoa do the same.

Fay.2357:

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

I should have been more clear. Staff will summon illusions that remain at 1200 range, out of reach of nasty boss stuff. Greatsword summons them on target, which is unhealthy for illusions, particularly at the beginning of a fight.

Re: Herald 15 might upkeep

I achieved this with Hoelbrak runes actually, as strength runes didn’t come with the package.

Herald also benefits from his own 50% boon duration, and gets another 15% besides from a minor trait, iirc.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Fay.2357:

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

I should have been more clear. Staff will summon illusions that remain at 1200 range, out of reach of nasty boss stuff. Greatsword summons them on target, which is unhealthy for illusions, particularly at the beginning of a fight.

Re: Herald 15 might upkeep

I achieved this with Hoelbrak runes actually, as strength runes didn’t come with the package.

OK, ty. How much without hoelbrak? If eles can provide 12 might revenant might be able to go scholar if he decides to go the might rought.

Well, without hoelbrak (and I forgot about 15% herald gets from a minor) you’re looking at 12.75 stacks with facet of nature running, or 8ish stacks without.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ok well, I looked back some and couldn’t find anything so I’ll just say this one more time. You will already have 30+ seconds of alacrity with only shattering when it’s a DPS increase. The only thing shattering off cd does is provide more alacrity for you. 30+ seconds of alacrity for you is already enough during the fight. Caps for emphasis. THE ONLY TIME MORE ALACRITY IS USEFUL IS IF CS WOULDN’T BE OFF CD FOR THE NEXT FIGHT BUT WITH SHATTERING OFF CD THAT WOULD CHANGE. But to even know this you would need to play with the same 4 people all the time. And I’d imagine these cases will not be the norm. If anyone has actually replied to this I’d love to here the reply, but I read all the posts people reply so I really don’t think its slipped past me over 4 times.

All those times that we pointed out that you need alacrity to reset your own skills for the next fight. Since this has been said many, many times now, and YOU’VE RESPONDED AT LEAST ONCE to those, it’s clear either
1. YOU JUST LIED about reading the rest of the thread, or
2. YOU JUST LIED about not having seen an answer about why you’d need more alacrity, because you’ve responded to such an answer already, earlier in the conversation.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Sanderinoa replied to you (perhaps unwisely)”

How was it unwise? We had a perfectly normal conversation. Nothing bad about it at all.

See the above lies.
You are toxic in conversation, not just because you get rude (who doesn’t, at times?), but because you don’t read what people write, you make broad assertions without evidence (and refuse to attempt to provide such), you go further to insist that your assertions are conclusive even after being called on lack of evidence, you dispute facts that have evidence while having no backing to your own position, your arguments often make no kitten sense, and you occasionally lie about your role in the conversation. All of the above is obstructive to constructive conversation in a forum setting.

These are the reasons I ceased to engage with you, and the reasons I would recommend that Sanderinoa do the same.

“All those times that we pointed out that you need alacrity to reset your own skills for the next fight. Since this has been said many, many times now, and YOU’VE RESPONDED AT LEAST ONCE to those, it’s clear either
1. YOU JUST LIED about reading the rest of the thread, or
2. YOU JUST LIED about not having seen an answer about why you’d need more alacrity, because you’ve responded to such an answer already, earlier in the conversation.”

All of your skills should be off cd for the next fight except CS which I addressed in my post. And like I said those times with the CS are highly likely to be rare. So no, I didn’t lie, I did respond to it, you just didn’t respond to what I had responded and instead accused me of not responding.

“See the above lies.
You are toxic in conversation, not just because you get rude (who doesn’t, at times?), but because you don’t read what people write, you make broad assertions without evidence, you dispute facts that have evidence while having no backing to your own position, your arguments often make no kitten sense, and you occasionally lie about your role in the conversation. All of the above is obstructive to constructive conversation in a forum setting.

These are the reasons I ceased to engage with you, and the reasons I would recommend that Sanderinoa do the same."

You have been just as rude in this thread. I think we have both missed some stuff in each others posts. That’s hardly toxic tho. As for my broad assertions without evidence, your the one that needed evidence as to why you thought 1 scepter 1 sword was better than 2 swords, or why staff was good or other stuff. And by evidence I mean math. I was just trying to show without math why it looked strongly to me that you were wrong. What evidence has been provided in this thread that I have argued against? As for my arguments making no kitten sense, which ones are you talking about and why don’t they make sense to you? And what do you mean by lying about my role in the thread? I would say my role in this thread has been to try and show why I would make some changes to the build the OP used.

EDIT @ Fay: Can you keep up both facet of nature and the might too? Or is that too much energy cost?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

EDIT @ Fay: Can you keep up both facet of nature and the might to? Or is that too much energy cost?

Facet of nature is 2 pips, might is 2 pips. Your passive upkeep is 5 pips, leaving you 1 pip to play around with. You can either put this into the swiftness facet to get more boons to proc the might, use it for unrelenting assault, or drain your energy by 1 pip if you want to pulse fury with the other facet.

When I played it, I wasn’t actually using the facet of nature upkeep, but was popping it off cooldown for the boon burst it provided of various stuff (3 might, fury, swiftness, regen, prot). I was also swapping between herald and shiro, though I’d pop into shiro just to activate impossible odds and autoattack until my energy was drained, then back to glint to get the boon upkeep again.

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

EDIT @ Fay: Can you keep up both facet of nature and the might to? Or is that too much energy cost?

Facet of nature is 2 pips, might is 2 pips. Your passive upkeep is 5 pips, leaving you 1 pip to play around with. You can either put this into the swiftness facet to get more boons to proc the might, use it for unrelenting assault, or drain your energy by 1 pip if you want to pulse fury with the other facet.

When I played it, I wasn’t actually using the facet of nature upkeep, but was popping it off cooldown for the boon burst it provided of various stuff (3 might, fury, swiftness, regen, prot). I was also swapping between herald and shiro, though I’d pop into shiro just to activate impossible odds and autoattack until my energy was drained, then back to glint to get the boon upkeep again.

OK, didn’t know how fast your energy replenished. Sounds cool. So if revenant did handle the might he wouldn’t need strength runes if he replaced the thief. But even if he replaced the ele he wouldn’t need strength runes. Warrior will still go for EA, so he might as well grab PS too. He won’t use strength runes or might food, but he will still pump out enough might for revenant not to need to go strength runes if he replaces the ele. That’s all I was wondering.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Xyonon.3987:

There’s one question about the warrior that bugs me the most – you try to give him an option not to trait for PS … but … what about EA? :/ I doubt any dmg build will deal so much more damage to ignore EA, a party wide ~5% dmg boost.

Yeah, this was something I was thinking about, but for some reason I was thinking that would mean taking strength runes and might food. I would expect this to be better. That being said I still think PS will be meta.

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

There’s one question about the warrior that bugs me the most – you try to give him an option not to trait for PS … but … what about EA? :/ I doubt any dmg build will deal so much more damage to ignore EA, a party wide ~5% dmg boost.

I made a response to this earlier, but I think the waves of highly intellectual discussion may have obscured it.
The primary difference would be allowing the warrior to do maximum dps rotations with axe instead of being stuck in GS for the might generation. It also might open up rune/sigil options.

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

Also, does anyone know how much vuln revenant keeps up?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

Also, does anyone know how much vuln revenant keeps up?

If you pop the might facet, you can instantly spike 20 stacks in a big cleave, but that’s probably not worth it.

Other than that, you’ve got a 25% chance to apply 4s of vuln on hit.

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

Also, does anyone know how much vuln revenant keeps up?

If you pop the might facet, you can instantly spike 20 stacks in a big cleave, but that’s probably not worth it.

Other than that, you’ve got a 25% chance to apply 4s of vuln on hit.

I meant like how much on average? Also the first two hits on sword apply vuln. I just wasn’t sure how much this was on average.

Fay.2357:

Kitta.3657:

Fay.2357:

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

Wait a second, GS has ability to summon illusions at 1200 range 0-0 I don’t know exactly what I’m missing, because I’d be surprised you wouldn’t be aware… But it completely does. Mirror blade is 1200 range and summons a clone on the target. Illusionary Berserker spawns a phantasm on 1200 range. 2/5 spawns illusions at 1200 range.

Are you trying to talk about staff being capable of summoning an illusion without a target? If so then #3 on staff still requires a target so you’re not really more advantageous than GS for that. I just mean this can’t be considered an arguing point against GS. Everything else you say is right though.

S/Sh S/P or S/S still sounds overall better for most encounters and compositions than Staff to me.

I should have been more clear. Staff will summon illusions that remain at 1200 range, out of reach of nasty boss stuff. Greatsword summons them on target, which is unhealthy for illusions, particularly at the beginning of a fight.

Re: Herald 15 might upkeep

I achieved this with Hoelbrak runes actually, as strength runes didn’t come with the package.

Edit: I can do a bit of math for this real quick. The facet of strength pulses 1 stack of might every 3 seconds with a base duration of 12 seconds. With hoelbrak runes (+30% might duration) this ends up at 16 seconds, which gets you a total upkeep of 5 might permanently.

However, there’s a trait that makes the rev apply might (8s duration) to allies when they apply any boon to them (1s icd). With hoelbrak runes, this goes to about 10 seconds. Since you’ll have multiple facets active, this ends up being an additional stack of might roughly once every 1.5 seconds, for a total added upkeep of about 6 stacks.

Together, this gets us to 11 stacks permanently. Popping facet of nature for an additional 50% duration pushes that to ~15.

thanks and sorry for the nitpicking :P

@Fay

Sorry for the late reply, but thank you for responding to my earlier post about berserker and GS (I had a meta event to attend call “RL Work”. You made a good point about GS’s illusions. At the moment, I have berserker gear with traveler runes, but I may look into possibly Giver’s, Sinister/Rampager, or Celestial. However, you are right that we don’t know exactly what stats are ideal yet.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

This is what I meant. So it’s useless to even try to help the war with might. Aslong as EA is there, the warrior will be forced into that traitline.

About axe vs GS – there are traits for both weapons wich should be considered. However without any traits, the normal axe aa deals as much dps as a permanent 100b. This already marks it the better dps weapon, especially single target with F1.

However there is the hardcore playstyle with the axe when you cancel your auto attack at your 2nd chain, right at the beginning, so you skip to the 3rd chain right away wich deals huge damage. It’s a bit harder to play but it’s not like warriors have to focus on anything else in combat on axe than spamming high dps skills from 1-5. With this method your axe auto attack becomes about 20% stronger in theory, with human skills rather 10% … :P

Xyonon.3987:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

This is what I meant. So it’s useless to even try to help the war with might. Aslong as EA is there, the warrior will be forced into that traitline.

About axe vs GS – there are traits for both weapons wich should be considered. However without any traits, the normal axe aa deals as much dps as a permanent 100b. This already marks it the better dps weapon, especially single target with F1.

However there is the hardcore playstyle with the axe when you cancel your auto attack at your 2nd chain, right at the beginning, so you skip to the 3rd chain right away wich deals huge damage. It’s a bit harder to play but it’s not like warriors have to focus on anything else in combat on axe than spamming high dps skills from 1-5. With this method your axe auto attack becomes about 20% stronger in theory, with human skills rather 10% … :P

I wouldn’t say it’s automatically useless to help the warrior with might. Because for him to give out 25 might he needs might food and strength runes. That being said the warrior will always go PS even if he doesn’t have those.

" However without any traits, the normal axe aa deals as much dps as a permanent 100b. This already marks it the better dps weapon, especially single target with F1."

Maybe something changed in the June 23rd patch but at least before that I remember Nike talking about pure GS build doing more damage than axe mace and the only reason you wanted to use axe mace was for vuln.

Has always been like this. The only reason may be at the FGS times when every single boss has been pulled into a corner, there the warrior could use his whirl aswell. But axe has always been superior to gs.

Xyonon.3987:

Has always been like this. The only reason may be at the FGS times when every single boss has been pulled into a corner, there the warrior could use his whirl aswell. But axe has always been superior to gs.

I’m talking post FGS.

Something worth noting about chaos’ contributions is the insane protection time you get from chaotic dampening if you can coordinate some blast finishers in your ethereal wells, which can then be shared through signet of inspiration.

Eponet.4829:

Something worth noting about chaos’ contributions is the insane protection time you get from chaotic dampening if you can coordinate some blast finishers in your ethereal wells, which can then be shared through signet of inspiration.

The problem with that is that now you have to take signet of inspiration, negatively impacting your other utility.

If you really need that group protection for some spots, you could just have your herald provide it for that duration instead (elite facet pulses permanent protection).

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

Also, does anyone know how much vuln revenant keeps up?

That was before the last warrior GS nerf as far as I know. Now I’d imagine the rotation would be better (at least with fast hands, but I’d imagine without as well). Don’t forget we now use burst skills so eviscerate is a nice burst to add in on the axe side against single targets.

Either way, I’ve seen it said a couple times now that the DPS difference between PS war and “DPS” war isn’t very much. I’d imagine if we had Revs around we’d just drop the strength runes on the warrior, maybe change food, and call it a day for alterations to warrior. Rev can keep the boon duration going but no need for might really.

I don’t think mesmers will be wanting to focus anything on might, if you give some out, that’s great, but nothing should need to be sacrificed for it as it should easily be maintained already. If I had to guess groups would look something like Rev, Mes, War, Ele, Engi and all of those have plenty of access to group might (ele more prestacking as staff is king).

Small note, as a main Engi, Alacrity and Quickness is going to screw me up SO much >.<

Jerus.4350:

Small note, as a main Engi, Alacrity and Quickness is going to screw me up SO much >.<

Oh dear Lord, you are right… is gonna be a nightmare, goodbye rotations

If any fine mesmers out there would feel like creating a chart of cooldowns and what they will end up being with perma alacrity… I’d love you

Thing get complicated if you only have partial alacrity. Permanent alacrity is really simple:

Original cooldown * .66 = cooldown with permanent alacrity

Fay.2357:

Thing get complicated if you only have partial alacrity. Permanent alacrity is really simple:

Original cooldown * .66 = cooldown with permanent alacrity

*Note that .66 is based on some loose observations by Pyro. For safety’s sake I’ve adopted the same, but come the next BWE I plan to do some more solid calculations just to be sure.
By the math, it SHOULD be .6, so something’s hinky and is gonna need further experimentation.

66% faster recharge is 1 / 1.66 = a 0.60 multiplier

edit: whatever ^^ said XD

Yes, if you have a full understanding of what a rate means and how it interacts with cooldowns, then you would code alacrity to correspond to a total CDR down to .6.

However, coders are not mathematicians, physicists, or engineers. This means that when you tell your standard coder ‘66% faster cooldown’, you get a maximum CDR down to .66. That .66 value is experimentally verified, not what gets produced by math.

Thanks, sounds like I’ll be using a firebomb every 5s, able to blast with FT every 5s for 3 stacks of 20s might, right there Engi could easily maintain 12 stacks ignoring other potential blasts (HT/BoB most likely).

But, yeah, eek playing with a mesmer is going to be scary, have to go into overdrive. feel like I’m going to be in a lot of Scotty positions “I’m given her all she’s got Capt’n”

Well, here’s a simple (and scary) way to look at it.

Quickness makes your action speed 50% faster.

Alacrity makes you cool down 50% faster (as per experimental evidence).

The chrono build provides essentially permanent alacrity and quickness. This means that your rotations won’t change at all, you just have to perform everything 50% faster. Have fun xD

Jerus.4350:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

Guys it’s never been about PS. It’s about EA (Empowered Allies). It’s +150 power aka +5% dmg for the whole pt.

What I mean is that I doubt that the damage increase of a warrior not going for EA compared to a warrior that traits EA isn’t higher than a party wide 5% dmg increase.

So even if anyone else can grant 25 stacks might, it would be useless since war goes into EA and therefore PS anyway.

As I understand it, the issue isn’t having PS per se, but about doing what it takes to get the 25 might stacks with it, which means taking an inferior dps rotation/weaponset in favor of stacking might with Greatsword.

Actually pure GS last I remember did higher DPS than GS axe mace. It’s just a GS axe mace build provides more vuln. But the thing is for warrior to provide 25 might he needs strength runes and might food. Still think either way warrior will go EA and thus PS, even if he isn’t the guy providing the might.

Also, does anyone know how much vuln revenant keeps up?

That was before the last warrior GS nerf as far as I know. Now I’d imagine the rotation would be better (at least with fast hands, but I’d imagine without as well). Don’t forget we now use burst skills so eviscerate is a nice burst to add in on the axe side against single targets.

Either way, I’ve seen it said a couple times now that the DPS difference between PS war and “DPS” war isn’t very much. I’d imagine if we had Revs around we’d just drop the strength runes on the warrior, maybe change food, and call it a day for alterations to warrior. Rev can keep the boon duration going but no need for might really.

I don’t think mesmers will be wanting to focus anything on might, if you give some out, that’s great, but nothing should need to be sacrificed for it as it should easily be maintained already. If I had to guess groups would look something like Rev, Mes, War, Ele, Engi and all of those have plenty of access to group might (ele more prestacking as staff is king).

Small note, as a main Engi, Alacrity and Quickness is going to screw me up SO much >.<

OK, yeah was wondering if something changed with the spec patch or sometime around there that changed it. And yeah warrior will definitely go for EA so it will still grab PS. It’s just with revenant it won’t need strength runes/ potentially might food. Also I didn’t think about it, thief DPS will go down a lot now compared to other classes. Alacrity won’t effect thief’s DPS and quickness isn’t as good on thief as some other classes. And yeah if engineer is hard to do a good rotation with now imagine learning a whole new rotation with alacrity. RIP engi grenade auto attack. Just swapping between kits/weapons like crazy.

Fay.2357:

Well, here’s a simple (and scary) way to look at it.

Quickness makes your action speed 50% faster.

Alacrity makes you cool down 50% faster (as per experimental evidence).

The chrono build provides essentially permanent alacrity and quickness. This means that your rotations won’t change at all, you just have to perform everything 50% faster. Have fun xD

You’re going to make me cry

Good point though, my god.

At this point I question is the game can handle it…

where can I find the rotation better described than in the youtube notes?

rogerwilko.6895:

where can I find the rotation better described than in the youtube notes?

Check my posts in the thread, I think I wrote it down explicitly. If it’s not here, either hunt through my posting history (I have written it explicitly in the past), or I’ll hunt through to find it for you in 3 hours or so.

I think this is the post with the rotation that Fay has: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Swiftness-and-Boon-sharing-Herald-vs-Mesmer/first#post5464793

So far, in BWE3, following Fay’s rotation, after having 3 illusions and using F5, I only have enough to get Time Warp and 3 wells in before Continuum Split ends. I tested using a target dummy in Silverwastes. I didn’t have enough time to actually use shield 5 during the rapid rotation. However, if I include shield 5, I will only have Time Warp and 2 wells within CS.

Is it due to the aftercast that occurs after putting down a well now? I recall something about that being added (it was in the stickied thread of ‘Upcoming changes in BWE3’).

Edit: I also noticed that not all wells have the same activation time. Both Gravity Well and Well of Recall have 1 sec cast, Well of Calamity and Action have 3/4 activation time, and Well of Eternity and Precognition have 1/2 and 1/4 cast time, respectfully.

And our wells are not used underwater….

Phloww.1048:

I think this is the post with the rotation that Fay has: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Swiftness-and-Boon-sharing-Herald-vs-Mesmer/first#post5464793

So far, in BWE3, following Fay’s rotation, after having 3 illusions and using F5, I only have enough to get Time Warp and 3 wells in before Continuum Split ends. I tested using a target dummy in Silverwastes. I didn’t have enough time to actually use shield 5 during the rapid rotation. However, if I include shield 5, I will only have Time Warp and 2 wells within CS.

Is it due to the aftercast that occurs after putting down a well now? I recall something about that being added (it was in the stickied thread of ‘Upcoming changes in BWE3’).

Edit: I also noticed that not all wells have the same activation time. Both Gravity Well and Well of Recall have 1 sec cast, Well of Calamity and Action have 3/4 activation time, and Well of Eternity and Precognition have 1/2 and 1/4 cast time, respectfully.

And our wells are not used underwater….

Are you making sure to precast Well of Recall before you pop f6? That’ll save you most of a second…

Edit: that said, I myself found Pyro’s rotation very difficult to get good at. He makes it look easy, but it’s pretty frantic, and easy to mess up.

Phloww.1048:

I think this is the post with the rotation that Fay has: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Swiftness-and-Boon-sharing-Herald-vs-Mesmer/first#post5464793

So far, in BWE3, following Fay’s rotation, after having 3 illusions and using F5, I only have enough to get Time Warp and 3 wells in before Continuum Split ends. I tested using a target dummy in Silverwastes. I didn’t have enough time to actually use shield 5 during the rapid rotation. However, if I include shield 5, I will only have Time Warp and 2 wells within CS.

Is it due to the aftercast that occurs after putting down a well now? I recall something about that being added (it was in the stickied thread of ‘Upcoming changes in BWE3’).

Edit: I also noticed that not all wells have the same activation time. Both Gravity Well and Well of Recall have 1 sec cast, Well of Calamity and Action have 3/4 activation time, and Well of Eternity and Precognition have 1/2 and 1/4 cast time, respectfully.

And our wells are not used underwater….

I’m managing it without any problems, mash the skills harder xD.

Edit: I’ll make a vid of it later.

Hows this holding up in Raids? Are they making you move about more messing up the rotation?

Hard to say, since the raid has been closed due to bugs all evening.

EDIT: Correction, it JUST reopened like two minutes before I posted.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Are you making sure to precast Well of Recall before you pop f6? That’ll save you most of a second…

Edit: that said, I myself found Pyro’s rotation very difficult to get good at. He makes it look easy, but it’s pretty frantic, and easy to mess up.

Ok, precasting Well of Recall and use F5 before it fully finish casting did the trick. I was able to get Time Warp, all 4 wells, and a Tides of Time within CS. I never thought of that. Thanks Alpha! I tried squeezing shatters in, but it causes me to lose a well cast.

I’m using Eternity, Calamity, Action, and Recall wells and Chronophantasma trait and the 2 alacrity ones. Only issue is no stability or stunbreaker, which can throw this whole rotation out unless Tides of Time gets to the target first or have Bountiful Disillusionment trait or take Well of Precognition instead of Calamity.

@Fay

Like what Alpha said, you made it look easy!

Edit: Nevermind! I manage to squeeze in a Mind Wrack along with Timewarp, 4 wells, and Tides of Time with a split second left to spare, but that’s in perfect scenario when the target allows me to hit him. I’m afraid performing this outside of that will be more tricky.

Edit2: With Bountiful Disillusionment trait, Continuum Split gives Resistance boon. Just fyi.

Also, anyone notice the buff icon for the phantasms with Chronophantasma and recognize it?

Ran Pyro’s build a few times, strong party support; insane in CoE and AC.

I don’t like the idea of not having reflects or defensive utilities in the build for certain dungeons (Arah, CoF, Fracs) that you usually bring a mesmer for.

I’ve been running a bit more defensive spec with inspiration:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAse8dncfClfitfC2fCUrhFlj6MAGgIrORn0KFtDusMD-TRBXgAA7HK/UXQIU/Qv6PPKBJFQEDjA-e

You have noticeably less alacrity and slightly less quickness in favor of AoE distortion, damage reduction in iDefender, and reflection.

If you can get the initial aggro of a mob and block an attack, metal defense gives you a iDefender, which allows you to have a similar chain as you would a staff.

After the initial rotation I space out my shatters so I can maintain reflection with iWarden attacks, or refresh phantasms when they are about to die.

PS: Well of Precognition carries PuGs in CoE. I even killed the giant abom. with a PuG quite easily distorting his charges.

The caveat of the build is that it relies on the fight allowing you to sit in wells in melee, otherwise it nosedives really quick on alacrity/quickness uptime if you are forced to move a lot and especially to stay split.

I’m gonna run the build wherever I can, but it’s become pretty clear to me that the mesmer cannot be sustained by this crutch alone in order to be an attractive class for the group.

I also will say I dislike the idea of our main source of alacrity sharing being tied to wells. The trait needed something, but I would have preferred that the alacrity to allies had come from shattering or summoning phantasms, since right now you’re forced to run a full well setup and basically dump the wells asap.

This sorta clashes with more strategic wells like Well of Precognition.

I’m also quite peeved that the Continuum Rift even exists in PvE and is cleaved down by aoe/attacked by mobs.

Sadly Arenanet seems to show no intention of making mesmer competitive sustained DPS and fixing shatter gimping your DPS in PvE due to the class being held hostage by PvP balancing.

And given that Supcutie has been running wells for alacrity share and PvP crybabies like mistsim and more will pop up with QQ, expect Arenanet to nerf our alacrity share without compensating the class despite the fact that the only thing keeping us in the meta is that very alacrity/quickness edge, otherwise Guardians would be taking our spots.