Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

There’s one question about the warrior that bugs me the most – you try to give him an option not to trait for PS … but … what about EA? :/ I doubt any dmg build will deal so much more damage to ignore EA, a party wide ~5% dmg boost.

I made a response to this earlier, but I think the waves of highly intellectual discussion may have obscured it.

The primary difference would be allowing the warrior to do maximum dps rotations with axe instead of being stuck in GS for the might generation. It also might open up rune/sigil options.

Sigil options? Last I knew you took normal sigils. Its the food that your probably thinking of.

“maximum dps rotations with axe”

It’s not the maximum dps rotation. That would be a pure GS build. Axe and mace are used because of the vulnerability. But even in a PS build you can start the fight out with 2 and 4 on axe/mace. But by going revenant over ele your going to be losing vuln.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

See, that’s the thing. I’m not the guy that has to show math.

Except, you are.
The math has been done (in this thread and other before). The test run has been done.
Then you come in, saying “nah, doesn’t work. Haven’t tried it, or done the math, but you’re wrong”.
I’m actually puzzled at what you did expect :/

As for the comparison with the guardian staff: no one is telling you to use a scepter right now. This option is only considered in the scope of the build discussed in this thread.
Guardians don’t have a total shift in their meta with the extension. Mesmers do. It goes from phantasm mesmer to shatter mesmer, polar opposites in gameplay. Scepter is a very, very bad phantasm weapon, but a decent to good shatter weapon. Hence, it makes for a valid swap choice for this build.

Elidath.5679:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

See, that’s the thing. I’m not the guy that has to show math.

Except, you are.
The math has been done (in this thread and other before). The test run has been done.
Then you come in, saying “nah, doesn’t work. Haven’t tried it, or done the math, but you’re wrong”.
I’m actually puzzled at what you did expect :/

As for the comparison with the guardian staff: no one is telling you to use a scepter right now. This option is only considered in the scope of the build discussed in this thread.
Guardians don’t have a total shift in their meta with the extension. Mesmers do. It goes from phantasm mesmer to shatter mesmer, polar opposites in gameplay. Scepter is a very, very bad phantasm weapon, but a decent to good shatter weapon. Hence, it makes for a valid swap choice for this build.

What math? The math that shows that sword has a better auto attack while scepter 3 has nice damage? That in no way shape or form tells us 1 scepter 1 sword>2swords. And if your talking about the staff, well, like i said, we all know how much staff is used right now, and its going to be worse in this build……… And if your talking about this revenant chaos mesmer thing no math has been done on that. I ain’t a math guy, I don’t enjoy it, nor do I have too much experience with it. That being said, I would do a test on the golems, except for the fact I don’t have access to the betas nor do I have a recording program. Literately, hardly any math has been done, and I ain’t questioning the math that has been done. What I’m questioning is whether scepter is actually worth it, whether staff is useful in the build, and whether chaos should be taken. To me it doesn’t seem worth it. So I’m trying to show y’all why while we wait for the beta to come up so some tests vs golems can be done by some people.

“As for the comparison with the guardian staff: no one is telling you to use a scepter right now. This option is only considered in the scope of the build discussed in this thread.”

No, the one guy said: Switch a Sword for a Sceptre, it does nearly as much autoattack DPS at close range and Confusing Images does more damage than Blurred Frenzy; plus since you’re Shattering Ether Clone is a benefit rather than a hindrance.

That’s already past the consideration phase and moved into the you should take it phase. And I’m just trying to show why I don’t think it’s a good idea to take scepter. It would seem I’ve at least the staff out of the way ( hopefully, because that’s what I thought about the scepter and then people are like its already proven you should take a scepter its just your ego getting into your way )

Jackums.3496:

Staff won’t be meta.

Quite possibly the case.

Jackums.3496:

Chaos won’t be meta.

Why not? Swapping out of chaos lowers your party dps with the reward of what…slightly higher phantasm attack damage on phantasms that squish in seconds anyway? Hardly a compelling reason to swap out of chaos. The only reason we spec for phantasm damage right now is because there isn’t a better option, not because it’s actually good.

Jackums.3496:

Shield is questionable.

Shield is party/raid-wide quickness, good alacrity from the new phantasm, projectile destruction, and massive break bar destruction. The only thing it doesn’t offer is pure damage, which isn’t the point here.

Jackums.3496:

Reflects will remain a priority.

In the 3 cases where you need to prioritize reflects over all else, sure. Otherwise…not so much.

Jackums.3496:

Phantasm w/ utility > pure utility. Etc.

Only if phantasms + utility produces a party dps that’s higher than pure utility. Phantasms are so weak that that conclusion is questionable.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

What math?

This math. The alacrity support build (jetlag) is mathematically proven efficient.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

The math that shows that sword has a better auto attack while scepter 3 has nice damage? That in no way shape or form tells us 1 scepter 1 sword>2swords.

A swing aaaand a miss.
No one told “scepter is superior to sword”. It was said “scepter as a second main hand is superior to sword as a second main hand in the described build”. Sword is still the go to first main hand.
The math in this thread showed that CI is a great damage skill, almost putting scepter DPS on par to sword. While rotating from sword to scepter, you benefit from sword AA and CI and alacrity (since CI has a CD), while not suffering too much from the scepter AA (since you still camp sword most of the time, and scepter AA improve your ubiquitous shatters).

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“As for the comparison with the guardian staff: no one is telling you to use a scepter right now. This option is only considered in the scope of the build discussed in this thread.”

No, the one guy said: Switch a Sword for a Sceptre, it does nearly as much autoattack DPS at close range and Confusing Images does more damage than Blurred Frenzy; plus since you’re Shattering Ether Clone is a benefit rather than a hindrance. That’s already past the consideration phase and moved into the you should take it phase.

Embolism was commenting your version of the build, where you did put two sword main hand. He adviced to take a different main hand since you gain CI (synergy with alacrity, better burst) instead of nothing by swapping. Staff isn’t considered because you made a build with two main hand. He wasn’t commenting on the current state of the scepter. Then this happened:

Remember, this is for pve dungeons not pvp. This is the first time I’v had someone tell me scepter was even close to useful in dungeons.

So, you rejected it because scepter is bad in the current meta, totally ignoring the fact that scepter makes perfect sense in the proposed build, which is different on a conceptual level from the current meta. Of course no one would find the scepter close to useful now. Because as of now, phantasm are the be-all-end-all of dungeon mesmers. Scepter is bad because it is a shatter weapon, and shatters are bad in pve. If shatters are good, why shouldn’t the scepter be considered?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And I’m just trying to show why I don’t think it’s a good idea to take scepter. It would seem I’ve at least the staff out of the way ( hopefully, because that’s what I thought about the scepter and then people are like its already proven you should take a scepter its just your ego getting into your way )

Problem is, you show only why the scepter is bad right now, and right now the jetlag build doesn’t exist. The whole reason this thread was created was because the meta will change. Discuss those change, not the current state.

Elidath.5679:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

What math?

This math. The alacrity support build (jetlag) is mathematically proven efficient.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

The math that shows that sword has a better auto attack while scepter 3 has nice damage? That in no way shape or form tells us 1 scepter 1 sword>2swords.

A swing aaaand a miss.
No one told “scepter is superior to sword”. It was said “scepter as a second main hand is superior to sword as a second main hand in the described build”. Sword is still the go to first main hand.
The math in this thread showed that CI is a great damage skill, almost putting scepter DPS on par to sword. While rotating from sword to scepter, you benefit from sword AA and CI and alacrity (since CI has a CD), while not suffering too much from the scepter AA (since you still camp sword most of the time, and scepter AA improve your ubiquitous shatters).

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“As for the comparison with the guardian staff: no one is telling you to use a scepter right now. This option is only considered in the scope of the build discussed in this thread.”

No, the one guy said: Switch a Sword for a Sceptre, it does nearly as much autoattack DPS at close range and Confusing Images does more damage than Blurred Frenzy; plus since you’re Shattering Ether Clone is a benefit rather than a hindrance. That’s already past the consideration phase and moved into the you should take it phase.

Embolism was commenting your version of the build, where you did put two sword main hand. He adviced to take a different main hand since you gain CI (synergy with alacrity, better burst) instead of nothing by swapping. Staff isn’t considered because you made a build with two main hand. He wasn’t commenting on the current state of the scepter. Then this happened:

Remember, this is for pve dungeons not pvp. This is the first time I’v had someone tell me scepter was even close to useful in dungeons.

So, you rejected it because scepter is bad in the current meta, totally ignoring the fact that scepter makes perfect sense in the proposed build, which is different on a conceptual level from the current meta. Of course no one would find the scepter close to useful now. Because as of now, phantasm are the be-all-end-all of dungeon mesmers. Scepter is bad because it is a shatter weapon, and shatters are bad in pve. If shatters are good, why shouldn’t the scepter be considered?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And I’m just trying to show why I don’t think it’s a good idea to take scepter. It would seem I’ve at least the staff out of the way ( hopefully, because that’s what I thought about the scepter and then people are like its already proven you should take a scepter its just your ego getting into your way )

Problem is, you show only why the scepter is bad right now, and right now the jetlag build doesn’t exist. The whole reason this thread was created was because the meta will change. Discuss those change, not the current state.

’This math. The alacrity support build (jetlag) is mathematically proven efficient."

Talking about a swing and a miss….. The math there does NOT prove staff is good, nor that scepter is good, nor that chaos is better than dueling/domination. All that math shows is that the alacrity and quickness from mesmer is super useful! And I agree, I believe chronomancer will be taken in the meta. I do not agree scepter, staff, or keeping the chaos line on so much will be part of the chronomancer meta.

“A swing aaaand a miss.
No one told “scepter is superior to sword”. It was said “scepter as a second main hand is superior to sword as a second main hand in the described build”. Sword is still the go to first main hand.
The math in this thread showed that CI is a great damage skill, almost putting scepter DPS on par to sword. While rotating from sword to scepter, you benefit from sword AA and CI and alacrity (since CI has a CD), while not suffering too much from the scepter AA (since you still camp sword most of the time, and scepter AA improve your ubiquitous shatters).”

I said “That in no way shape or form tells us 1 scepter 1 sword>2swords.”

Note how I said 1 scepter 1 sword. Lol. And your AA on scepter screws with your phantasms. “while not suffering too much from the scepter AA”. Yeah, the scepter AA will totally screw with your phantasms.

“Embolism was commenting your version of the build, where you did put two sword main hand. He adviced to take a different main hand since you gain CI (synergy with alacrity, better burst) instead of nothing by swapping. Staff isn’t considered because you made a build with two main hand. He wasn’t commenting on the current state of the scepter. "

Well, at least we got this staff thing out of the way. And I am fully aware he is talking about one scepter one sword. I still believe scepter will not be taken tho.

“So, you rejected it because scepter is bad in the current meta, totally ignoring the fact that scepter makes perfect sense in the proposed build, which is different on a conceptual level from the current meta. Of course no one would find the scepter close to useful now. Because as of now, phantasm are the be-all-end-all of dungeon mesmers. Scepter is bad because it is a shatter weapon, and shatters are bad in pve. If shatters are good, why shouldn’t the scepter be considered?”

Except it doesn’t make sense in this build. Your wanting to shatter PHANTASMS not clones. And the whole reason behind that is more damage from chronophantsma. This doesn’t leave any room for clones.

’Problem is, you show only why the scepter is bad right now, and right now the jetlag build doesn’t exist. The whole reason this thread was created was because the meta will change. Discuss those change, not the current state."

Read the above. Or the above in some of my previous posts. I have said why. You just need to stop ignoring it.

@Fay

’Why not? Swapping out of chaos lowers your party dps with the reward of what…slightly higher phantasm attack damage on phantasms that squish in seconds anyway? Hardly a compelling reason to swap out of chaos. The only reason we spec for phantasm damage right now is because there isn’t a better option, not because it’s actually good."

Because you need to take a revenant. Plz go check my comparison between a revenant vs another ele.

’Shield is party/raid-wide quickness, good alacrity from the new phantasm, projectile destruction, and massive break bar destruction. The only thing it doesn’t offer is pure damage, which isn’t the point here."

The quickness is ok, but only if you need the extra quickness. I think we to a extent both agree on shield. Taken if you need quickness. The thing we don’t agree about is that it shouldn’t be taken if you don’t need the quickness. To get the phantasm you need to wait the duration of the block. Again, you already have plenty of alacrity without it. It’s not worth blocking to get to get two seconds of alacrity. Not to mention the phantasm doesn’t do a lot of damage. Only way I could see the 4 skill being used is if some important skill won’t be off cd when you need it in the next fight and with the shield you would have it up then in time. Which you would need a consistent group to know. Also, it would be nicer for the block to not last so long so you don’t have to lose too much DPS. If you have to wait 2 seconds for the block to end that would be a nuisance. I’ve mentioned this who knows how many times and yet its been ignored. SINCE YOUR FIGHTING IN MELEE RANGE THE SHIELD WALL WILL ONLY PROTECT YOU FOR LIKE 0.5 SECONDS. Hopefully you will see it it now finally. Don’t make my next post just be copying and pasting that for like 10 minutes lol.

“In the 3 cases where you need to prioritize reflects over all else, sure. Otherwise…not so much.”

? 3 cases? Ok, lets have a look, because this is ridiculous. Let’s see. Why not CM. P1: first boss. Perma reflects are used for 1 3rd of the bosses. p2, first champion its used. Same for the the pistol bosses later on in the dungeon. 2 out of 5 bosses. p3, all 3 bosses. So out of 11 bosses in CM 6 bosses perma reflects/projectile destrution should be used. That’s over half of them. Don’t make me move onto the other dungeons. I really really think you underestimate perma reflect/projectile destruction.

’Only if phantasms + utility produces a party dps that’s higher than pure utility. Phantasms are so weak that that conclusion is questionable."

What extra pure utility is your build getting besides the might that warrior will be doing? And if your going to tell me to take a revenant, instead discuss my comparison between revenant over ele. Because that has just been ignored yet you still make it seam like the mesmer will go chaos.

My brain… I can’t.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

My brain… I can’t.

That’s what I’m saying.

At this point I’m just enjoying the freak show, haha.

Come to think of it, maybe he’s trolling. In which case 10/10, very convincing idiocy. Had me fooled for a couple of pages.

So you will point out the fact I forgot some mesmer mechanics and totally ignore the fact the one guy didn’t know anything about thief stealth at all? Then again, idk why I’m surprised. After all, this is one of the less troll things you guys have said. But hey, after all, it’s easier to insult while not even trying to discuss what’s going on.

Just so you’re aware, I was giving you an out. You could’ve admitted you were trolling and we’d all have a good laugh about it. Instead you decide to dig yourself deeper by showing you’re completely serious.

Wait, is this trolling too? Oh ho ho, very well played. 11/10.

Well, if nothing else, at least the “troll” managed to convince some people staff isn’t useful. Now all we have to do is wait for HOT and some dps tests.

EDIT: ooooooooooooo, your wanting me to say I’m a troll? Ok. I’m a troll because staff isn’t taken in dungeons now and it’s getting worse in this build. Scepter will be meta because it overrides your phantasms you summon and obvs clone>phantasm ( duh ), and revenant is going to be taken so you will lose some vuln, IBs, FGSs, etc etc etc. lol. Oh and because I am obvs not supporting my logic at all and am instead just insulting entirely in my post. Yep, you caught me.

You should seriously ask yourself why not a single person in here agree with you on any point, ever.

Apparently, the whole mesmer community is just a big troll out to get you. That, or you are plainly wrong, and it is blindingly obvious to anyone but you.

Oh yeah, no one at all. No one like Miku, Jerus, and Jackums. Totally not even 1 person. Like I would consider your post here very trolly, but this has been like half of the thread. You really expected I wouldn’t look back in the thread? Or? Like IDK what you were thinking.

pls, read the whole thread once again everytime you make an ‘arguement’, I’m sure you’ d find the answer.

rainpool.7189:

pls, read the whole thread once again everytime you make an ‘arguement’, I’m sure you’ d find the answer.

Me? Or the other people? If me, would you mind pointing out what? Cause I went into detail to all there responses. Also, sword AA getting 10% damage boost woot woot. Ib getting a 50% damage nerf. Definitely will lesson the gap between taking another ele and a revenant or maybe even make revenant better to take. I’ll probably think it over more tomorrow more.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Me? Or the other people? If me, would you mind pointing out what? Cause I went into detail to all there responses. Also, sword AA getting 10% damage boost woot woot. Ib getting a 50% damage nerf. Definitely will lesson the gap between taking another ele and a revenant or maybe even make revenant better to take. I’ll probably think it over more tomorrow more.

Was addressing the scepter overwriting phantasms. It has already been covered that you would never have up to 3 phantasms up using the build, yet you still repeatedly say that it would overwrite phantasms

rainpool.7189:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Me? Or the other people? If me, would you mind pointing out what? Cause I went into detail to all there responses. Also, sword AA getting 10% damage boost woot woot. Ib getting a 50% damage nerf. Definitely will lesson the gap between taking another ele and a revenant or maybe even make revenant better to take. I’ll probably think it over more tomorrow more.

Was addressing the scepter overwriting phantasms. It has already been covered that you would never have up to 3 phantasms up using the build, yet you still repeatedly say that it would overwrite phantasms

So let me give an example. Let’s say you run into a fight and use pistol phantasm and staff phantasm before you get into combat ( switching them out for the appropriate weapons then ). Then you pop CS, do your whole well/TW thing and shatter your phantasms. While popping both your phantasms. Then you come out of CS and pop both your 3rd phantasm and and then your wells again. Now you shatter your phantasms so they attack again. This is where you do NOT want to be auto attacking on scepter. Then when your sword phantasm is back up, you shatter your phantasms and pop it. Then when your weapon swap is off cd, you go summon another phantasm. Now you may be thinking, HAHAHHA! Two phantasms up, scepter is in the business and start to do a happy dance. Sorry to shatter your dreams ( hahaha ), but this is where you have plenty of time to autoattack. And as we have already established, when you have plenty of time to auto attack, sword wins. Not to mention sword AA is getting a 10% damage boost. Sorry scepter, but you won’t be taken for dungeons. So yeah it’s a combination between you need to not have 3 phantasms up and you need to not have too much time to auto attack. That and the 10% damage boost to sword AA is like icing on the cake.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

rainpool.7189:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Me? Or the other people? If me, would you mind pointing out what? Cause I went into detail to all there responses. Also, sword AA getting 10% damage boost woot woot. Ib getting a 50% damage nerf. Definitely will lesson the gap between taking another ele and a revenant or maybe even make revenant better to take. I’ll probably think it over more tomorrow more.

Was addressing the scepter overwriting phantasms. It has already been covered that you would never have up to 3 phantasms up using the build, yet you still repeatedly say that it would overwrite phantasms

So let me give an example. Let’s say you run into a fight and use pistol phantasm and staff phantasm before you get into combat ( switching them out for the appropriate weapons then ). Then you pop CS, do your whole well/TW thing and shatter your phantasms. While popping both your phantasms. Then you come out of CS and pop both your 3rd phantasm and and then your wells again. Now you shatter your phantasms so they attack again. This is where you do NOT want to be auto attacking on scepter. Then when your sword phantasm is back up, you shatter your phantasms and pop it. Then when your weapon swap is off cd, you go summon another phantasm. Now you may be thinking, HAHAHHA! Two phantasms up, scepter is in the business and start to do a happy dance. Sorry to shatter your dreams ( hahaha ), but this is where you have plenty of time to autoattack. And as we have already established, when you have plenty of time to auto attack, sword wins. Not to mention sword AA is getting a 10% damage boost. Sorry scepter, but you won’t be taken for dungeons. So yeah it’s a combination between you need to not have 3 phantasms up and you need to not have too much time to auto attack. That and the 10% damage boost to sword AA is like icing on the cake.

I’m with the understanding that you keep your shatters on cooldown. And during CS you want to use all 4 shatters so their cooldown is reset and you can do it again. Unless that has been changed. With that in mind, you won’t have phantasms with all that shatters during, or shortly after, CS. The way I understand it is as follows:

1-Get three illusions up
2-Start casting Time warp
3-Before the cast on Time warp end, cast CS
4-During CS use the other 4 shatters, as well as placing your wells and using skills.
5-Once CS ends, use those skills again, along with the other 4 shatters
6-Then, keep wells, shatter skills, and illusion summoning skills on cooldown.
7-Repeat steps 1-5 when CS is off cooldown.

If this is indeed the correct rotation, then you’re not going to have phantasms up for very long. If you decide to wait to shatter after they attack, or attack after the first shatter, then that’s lost alacrity uptime, and you don’t have a lot of duration at the beginning of the fight, you only get high duration after the rotation is complete, which means that 1.5 seconds or whatever the new daze on them lasts, means 1.5 seconds lost on early boon duration.

I’m not going to say whether it’s better to wait until the phantasms attack again or not, as I’ll need to test that out for myself, but the point is, with shatters constantly kept on cooldown, scepter’s ability to generate clones might be worth it. We’ll have to see how it plays out in the end though.

Sarathor.2409:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

rainpool.7189:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Me? Or the other people? If me, would you mind pointing out what? Cause I went into detail to all there responses. Also, sword AA getting 10% damage boost woot woot. Ib getting a 50% damage nerf. Definitely will lesson the gap between taking another ele and a revenant or maybe even make revenant better to take. I’ll probably think it over more tomorrow more.

Was addressing the scepter overwriting phantasms. It has already been covered that you would never have up to 3 phantasms up using the build, yet you still repeatedly say that it would overwrite phantasms

So let me give an example. Let’s say you run into a fight and use pistol phantasm and staff phantasm before you get into combat ( switching them out for the appropriate weapons then ). Then you pop CS, do your whole well/TW thing and shatter your phantasms. While popping both your phantasms. Then you come out of CS and pop both your 3rd phantasm and and then your wells again. Now you shatter your phantasms so they attack again. This is where you do NOT want to be auto attacking on scepter. Then when your sword phantasm is back up, you shatter your phantasms and pop it. Then when your weapon swap is off cd, you go summon another phantasm. Now you may be thinking, HAHAHHA! Two phantasms up, scepter is in the business and start to do a happy dance. Sorry to shatter your dreams ( hahaha ), but this is where you have plenty of time to autoattack. And as we have already established, when you have plenty of time to auto attack, sword wins. Not to mention sword AA is getting a 10% damage boost. Sorry scepter, but you won’t be taken for dungeons. So yeah it’s a combination between you need to not have 3 phantasms up and you need to not have too much time to auto attack. That and the 10% damage boost to sword AA is like icing on the cake.

I’m with the understanding that you keep your shatters on cooldown. And during CS you want to use all 4 shatters so their cooldown is reset and you can do it again. Unless that has been changed. With that in mind, you won’t have phantasms with all that shatters during, or shortly after, CS. The way I understand it is as follows:

1-Get three illusions up
2-Start casting Time warp
3-Before the cast on Time warp end, cast CS
4-During CS use the other 4 shatters, as well as placing your wells and using skills.
5-Once CS ends, use those skills again, along with the other 4 shatters
6-Then, keep wells, shatter skills, and illusion summoning skills on cooldown.
7-Repeat steps 1-5 when CS is off cooldown.

If this is indeed the correct rotation, then you’re not going to have phantasms up for very long. If you decide to wait to shatter after they attack, or attack after the first shatter, then that’s lost alacrity uptime, and you don’t have a lot of duration at the beginning of the fight, you only get high duration after the rotation is complete, which means that 1.5 seconds or whatever the new daze on them lasts, means 1.5 seconds lost on early boon duration.

I’m not going to say whether it’s better to wait until the phantasms attack again or not, as I’ll need to test that out for myself, but the point is, with shatters constantly kept on cooldown, scepter’s ability to generate clones might be worth it. We’ll have to see how it plays out in the end though.

Your already going to have alacrity from the well. And the alacrity you get from shattering is only for you. I mean, I could see something of the sort like this being done but only if say CS won’t be off cd for the next fight and by doing this it would change that. But that would require a pretty stable group. And who knows how many times the extra alacrity will let you have CS just off cd for the next boss. And you will have alacrity from the beginning of the fight because of using CS and then mind wrack, and by then your first well will have ended.

Well, next BWE is next weekend, and I’m sure there will be plenty of mesmers trying out the spec to see which is best. We’ll have to see then.

I didn’t read the whole thread but with the search function I wasn’t able to spot the word “Precognition” which is by far the best well for PvE imo.
What it does now is not as relevant but the changes Robert posted for BWE3:
Pulse 1s of Blur — finishes in 35 endurance refill.
Don’t you guys think this is extremly powerful?

In the meta where the team stacks in a corner or on a wall this well makes the whole group invulnerable for 3 seconds and since chronomancers with “All’s well that ends well” can also provide a bunch of alacrity this well can be reduced to a ~30s cooldown.

Result for a group: 3s of free dps where you do NOT need to dodge any attacks which would result in a dps loss.
Since we should have enough slow and quickness from time warp we can fokus on different levels of support and one would be to apply blur or distortion to our group. Another way of chronomancy support is alacrity and the very last ofc we can cleanse conditions and heal with our Well of Eternity.
(if needed we can still use feedback to reflect)

Sarathor.2409:

Well, next BWE is next weekend, and I’m sure there will be plenty of mesmers trying out the spec to see which is best. We’ll have to see then.

Yeah, hopefully some math will be done by some math guys. I presume once HOT releases DnT should post a build for chronomancer. Actually, that’s a good idea. Maybe I should start a discussion on the DnT forums.

@ me ma

First off, most of the time in a dungeon is not spent actually stacked against a wall or behind a corner. The only reason this was done was because on fiery great sword the 4 ability would make you move forward leaving patches of fire behind. When used against a wall all the patches of fire would stack in one place resulting in massive damage. But they nerfed that so it’s no longer possible to stack patches of fire up in one place. That being said, most of the time fighting is spent being pretty close to another so you can share buffs. Well of precognition would help with dodges, and thus save some DPS, but the question is, how much? Part of eles DPS is lava font so that can be ticking away while you dodge. And what would you give up? I could maybe see it in raids and even pugs, but I don’t think it will be taken in dungeons with a good group.

Ok, I think it’s time for another comparison because the old one has changed a lot. That being said, it will be a new comparison. Previously I was just comparing between what you guys thought revenant would do. I think at this point there is absolutely no reason for the warrior to go “full” DPS. Or for the revenant to be the guy handling might. Instead, if you take a revenant, the revenant would provide 50% boon duration so the warrior no longer needs to take strength runes. In addition, this means the chronomancer can now totally ditch chaos. Oh and warrior will still keep his EA. And you don’t need to stay within 600 range from the revenant. Really no reason at all to go chaos anymore except for stealthing ( which will be getting a nerf this Tuesday ). In addition IB will be nerfed this Tuesday which will lessen the gap between these two comps.

1 ele, 1 PS warrior, 1 chrono, 1 revenant, and 1 thief

Bonuses compared to other comp: 150 ferocity, warrior no longer needs strength runes.

2 ele, 1 PS warrior, 1 chrono, 1 thief

Bonuses compared to other comp: additional two FGSs and an additional glyph of storms

Ultimately, the first comp will probs be lacking vulnerability because no second glyph of storms. That, and depending on the dungeon, it could make the skips a lot longer ( depends how long the skips are in the dungeon ), and whether there’s a FGS up when the mesmer is about to do a portal skip. I definitely think the difference between the two comps are lessened now. As for which one I believe is better, it’s hard to say. The vulnerability from the ele is really nice, and so his having two more FGSs. But so is having 150 ferocity and some extra warrior damage. I think the 2 ele comp still has a slight advantage, but it’s hard to tell. For some dungeons where the skips are really long, I think the 2 ele comp will pull ahead by a lot. Either way, chaos mesmer is dead tho.

Still not sold on the chaos tree and staff. Would suggest running Inspiration and sword/focus instead.

Bacon.1835:

Still not sold on the chaos tree and staff. Would suggest running Inspiration and sword/focus instead.

Yeah, I agree with the no staff or chaos. But why inspiration instead of dueling/domination?

Hey Fry, we get it…you have no love for staff or the Chaos line. However, Fay is giving us a build that has a use for staff and that trait line that isn’t actually terrible. Why are you fighting it so badly? I’m not sure you actually understand what the build is for, with your arguments about phantoms attacking and using skills. This isn’t a phantom build, this is a shattering buff build. Phantom, clone…in the end it doesn’t matter because they are all shatter fodder almost immediately as soon as they are summoned.

Staff skills recharge at a seriously low cool-down rate and has the more reliable way of getting clones out. An 8 second clone summon (with the chance of being able to proc a Chaos armor to lower it even more), a 14.5 sec phantom…you really can’t get that kind of shatter fodder with something else except Scepter. Sure, Scepter is nice but what off hand can you pair that with for a secondary weapon slot that gives a decently timed phantom cool-down? You aren’t concerned with the low damage that Winds of Chaos is doing, you are concerned about getting that cool-down to as low as possible to keep pumping them out to F1-4 with. Makes me miss the old flat 20% reduction to staff skills we used to get. We all know that staff is a terrible power weapon but it’s not being used for that here. Staff also gives you the leap finisher and a reliable way of getting Chaos armor for protection (with the trait traited of course) and a nice AoE daze should you need it. It’s our utility weapon and I am more than pleased to finally find a build that has a use for it.

Have to stop thinking with the old way of doing things and find better solutions for the new toys we’ve been handed. Our damage doesn’t matter in the end and it’s sort of selfish of a Mesmer to try to increase their pitiful damage when they have ways of increasing the whole party’s with these new buffs. Who cares about increasing phantom’s damage when they are being shattered as soon they are created? That’s the point of this build. It looks nice to be able to move away from the normal Dom/Dueling lines and play with other toys with Chrono.

Sorry for the random babbling, I find this thread fascinating and I’ve been reading through it for a good day now. I love my staff and to finally have a build that uses it makes me so pleased.

rabidsmiles.5926:

Hey Fry, we get it…you have no love for staff or the Chaos line. However, Fay is giving us a build that has a use for staff and that trait line that isn’t actually terrible. Why are you fighting it so badly? I’m not sure you actually understand what the build is for, with your arguments about phantoms attacking and using skills. This isn’t a phantom build, this is a shattering buff build. Phantom, clone…in the end it doesn’t matter because they are all shatter fodder almost immediately as soon as they are summoned.

Staff skills recharge at a seriously low cool-down rate and has the more reliable way of getting clones out. An 8 second clone summon (with the chance of being able to proc a Chaos armor to lower it even more), a 14.5 sec phantom…you really can’t get that kind of shatter fodder with something else except Scepter. Sure, Scepter is nice but what off hand can you pair that with for a secondary weapon slot that gives a decently timed phantom cool-down? You aren’t concerned with the low damage that Winds of Chaos is doing, you are concerned about getting that cool-down to as low as possible to keep pumping them out to F1-4 with. Makes me miss the old flat 20% reduction to staff skills we used to get. We all know that staff is a terrible power weapon but it’s not being used for that here. Staff also gives you the leap finisher and a reliable way of getting Chaos armor for protection (with the trait traited of course) and a nice AoE daze should you need it. It’s our utility weapon and I am more than pleased to finally find a build that has a use for it.

Have to stop thinking with the old way of doing things and find better solutions for the new toys we’ve been handed. Our damage doesn’t matter in the end and it’s sort of selfish of a Mesmer to try to increase their pitiful damage when they have ways of increasing the whole party’s with these new buffs. Who cares about increasing phantom’s damage when they are being shattered as soon they are created? That’s the point of this build. It looks nice to be able to move away from the normal Dom/Dueling lines and play with other toys with Chrono.

Sorry for the random babbling, I find this thread fascinating and I’ve been reading through it for a good day now. I love my staff and to finally have a build that uses it makes me so pleased.

The problem is, why do you shatter off cd? For the alacrity? More alacrity for yourself is only useful is you wouldn’t have CS off cd for the next boss but with shattering off cd that would change. And I’ve said this already. But you would also need a stable group for this.

" Our damage doesn’t matter in the end and it’s sort of selfish of a Mesmer to try to increase their pitiful damage when they have ways of increasing the whole party’s with these new buffs."

Except I can have both the buffs AND the damage.

EDIT: And as for no love for staff or chaos, I like my bifrost and use it all the time in dungeons for forward phase retreats. And I’m all for quickly swapping to PU for the skips if you don’t have a thief and then swapping back. But just because I like my staff skin doesn’t mean I’m going to say it’s useful in cases it’s clearly not.

@Frenchfry:

Thief is going to be a niche pick. There’s not a lot of dungeons that require thief-level stealth for skips, and I’d be willing to bet that upcoming content is going to attempt to eliminate the mechanic of skipping entirely. That brings us to the following:

2 ele, rev, chrono, warrior.

However, there’s something else to consider. In fights that last longer than 20s iirc, sinister engineer takes the place of highest dps build in the game. This means a potential variation will be:

Ele, engie, chrono, rev, warrior.

Engie does a lot of vuln, so vuln upkeep shouldn’t be an issue. An interesting other thing to note is that if you dropped chaos for domination, you could actually take rending shatter and contribute quite a lot to vuln upkeep yourself.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@ me ma

First off, most of the time in a dungeon is not spent actually stacked against a wall or behind a corner. The only reason this was done was because on fiery great sword the 4 ability would make you move forward leaving patches of fire behind.

FGS 4 (or norn Bear Form charge) was only one reason among other (and I’m pretty sure Me Games Ma knows about it anyway).
Others reasons are:
- breaking LoS force enemy shooter into melee, allowing to cleave them ;
- no push back on the boss when you attack him, allowing better consistancies for lasting AoE (lava font, anyone ?) and easier time for some techniques (like guardian WW into ennemy hitbox, or dodge with warrior Whirlwind without stopping DPS) ;
- some pull are more efficient when done against a wall (especially with Temporal Curtain, for ex. the first fight of CoF p1) ;
- minor, but allow to cc with knockback without breaking the stack (can be useful with some pugs) ;
- can trigger some useful bug, mainly on lupicus (not saying it is good or bad, but it is definitely a thing) ;
So I’d say stacking against a wall/corner still is a thing, even without FGS.

Elidath.5679:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

@ me ma

First off, most of the time in a dungeon is not spent actually stacked against a wall or behind a corner. The only reason this was done was because on fiery great sword the 4 ability would make you move forward leaving patches of fire behind.

FGS 4 (or norn Bear Form charge) was only one reason among other (and I’m pretty sure Me Games Ma knows about it anyway).
Others reasons are:
- breaking LoS force enemy shooter into melee, allowing to cleave them ;
- no push back on the boss when you attack him, allowing better consistancies for lasting AoE (lava font, anyone ?) and easier time for some techniques (like guardian WW into ennemy hitbox, or dodge with warrior Whirlwind without stopping DPS) ;
- some pull are more efficient when done against a wall (especially with Temporal Curtain, for ex. the first fight of CoF p1) ;
- minor, but allow to cc with knockback without breaking the stack (can be useful with some pugs) ;
- can trigger some useful bug, mainly on lupicus (not saying it is good or bad, but it is definitely a thing) ;
So I’d say stacking against a wall/corner still is a thing, even without FGS.

Yeah definitely, just not for bosses. Only for mobs. That’s all I was trying to explain.

@Fay

Taking a thief depends on the dungeon. I can definitely see quite a few paths not taking thief but I also see quite a lot of dungeons where thieves will still be taken. I would say thief will be taken for just as many dungeons as they are now.

“and I’d be willing to bet that upcoming content is going to attempt to eliminate the mechanic of skipping entirely.’

We will have to wait and see. But the thread says dungeon rotation so I would try to stick to dungeons. It may very well be skipping won’t be used in raids. It could just as easily be the opposite. I could see the 2 ele, 1 warrior, 1 revenant, and 1 chrono comp your talking about. But only when stealth isn’t needed.

“However, there’s something else to consider. In fights that last longer than 20s iirc, sinister engineer takes the place of highest dps build in the game. This means a potential variation will be:

Ele, engie, chrono, rev, warrior."

Potentially, but the engi has to have a perfect rotation for that. And the fight has to last 20 seconds.

“An interesting other thing to note is that if you dropped chaos for domination, you could actually take rending shatter and contribute quite a lot to vuln upkeep yourself.”

Again maybe, but IDK if I would call it a lot of vuln. Which is why I’m interested in whether dueling or domination will be better. And would it be better to take Rending Shatter over Empowered Illusions? Just a thought.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Bacon.1835:

Still not sold on the chaos tree and staff. Would suggest running Inspiration and sword/focus instead.

Yeah, I agree with the no staff or chaos. But why inspiration instead of dueling/domination?

Just considering how PvE may change going in to HoT; the extra reflects, AoE distortion and iDefender on dodge may be more beneficial. Combining Warden’s Feedback with Illusionists Celerity also reduces the cooldown on iWarden to 15 seconds.

If that utility isn’t needed I’d then trait into dueling and equip sword/sword.

Ok Im really late to the party, I read up until some stuff with scepter on page two and then lost track.
What’s the current discussion point?

Personally I was planning on running domi-duel-chrono with sword/pistol-sword/shield.
I am aware that weapons like scepter and staff are going to get some more viablity but depending on the amount of time invested in a fight, as well as the amount of targets you have, these will all get their own time to shine.
I dont usually talk on the forum here because I simply don’t have a lot of time, but as I need to update the dulfy guide in october I think Im sort of obligated to now

Sanderinoa.8065:

Ok Im really late to the party, I read up until some stuff with scepter on page two and then lost track.
What’s the current discussion point?

Personally I was planning on running domi-duel-chrono with sword/pistol-sword/shield.
I am aware that weapons like scepter and staff are going to get some more viablity but depending on the amount of time invested in a fight, as well as the amount of targets you have, these will all get their own time to shine.
I dont usually talk on the forum here because I simply don’t have a lot of time, but as I need to update the dulfy guide in october I think Im sort of obligated to now

Long story short:

General concept is a build that neglects personal dps in favor of party dps. You keep close to permanent alacrity and quickness on your entire party. The way you do this is with traited wells, shield, and time warp primarily. By cycling wells and possibly shield phantasms, you can have ~35-40 seconds of alacrity in a 45 second cycle time. By cycling wells, shield 5, and time warp, you can have 35-40 seconds of quickness in that same 45 second cycle time.

Doing this requires some boon duration. If you happen to have a herald in the party, you can rely on their 50% aura and not worry about it personally. If you don’t, you’re going to need to run chaos for upkeep on boons and the boon duration boost of chaotic persistence.

Edit: Will elaborate some more.

When I ran it, I used sw/shield + staff. Staff allowed me to get 2 illusions up at 1200 range, followed by a third from iLeap to immediately begin a full cSplit combo at the very start of a fight safely. It also augmented my boon upkeep, which allowed for more boon duration.

In situations where I needed some reflects, I’d swap out well of calamity in favor of feedback.

Ultimately in a proper team, you’ll have a herald and therefor won’t need chaos or staff for the boon upkeep on chaotic persistence. This allows you to go for a more normal offhand like focus for reflects or sw/pistol for damage. It also allows you to either pick up inspiration if you need reflects, or domination/dueling if you want to try and do some more damage.

Re Scepter: While it does gain on dps compared to sword when you apply permanent alacrity, it doesn’t gain enough to out-dps it in most situations, particularly when you factor in the 10% damage boost sword is getting.

Re Staff: It definitely doesn’t have the dps of sword, particularly in a power build. That being said, chaos storm is a pretty solid damage skill, along with being the only source of team aegis that a mesmer can provide. With the staff trait and permanent alacrity, the cooldown on it is going to be around 13-15 seconds cooldown, which is quite low. It also allows you to summon those 2 illusions at 1200 range, which really improves the reliability of the opening combo.

Stop re-ing when Im replying kitten it, I can’t keep up this way xD

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

me saying things

Long story short:

General concept is a build that neglects personal dps in favor of party dps. You keep close to permanent alacrity and quickness on your entire party. The way you do this is with traited wells, shield, and time warp primarily. By cycling wells and possibly shield phantasms, you can have ~35-40 seconds of alacrity in a 45 second cycle time. By cycling wells, shield 5, and time warp, you can have 35-40 seconds of quickness in that same 45 second cycle time.

Doing this requires some boon duration. If you happen to have a herald in the party, you can rely on their 50% aura and not worry about it personally. If you don’t, you’re going to need to run chaos for upkeep on boons and the boon duration boost of chaotic persistence.

Oooh, so it’s chaotic persistence you’re doing the chaos line for, that makes a lot more sense than bountiful.
Frankly I am presuming revenant will be taken a lot for convenience so I personally won’t be worrying about it too much(you said this in the edit as well).

As you explicitely state that you focus on party dps over your own I won’t be argueing very much, it is what this build does very well.

Personally Im going to be presuming a revenant in most groups, raids and fractals will really benefit from the class and lets face it, they’re the new pve endcontent.
Ive been enjoying the chronomancer very much and the new Phant-shatter playstyle is extremely enjoyable, but I wouldn’t take it too far.
You can basically keep up three phantasms with chronophantasma, shatter them the second time whenever they go off cd(which is fast with alactrity), and respawn them again to shatter them again later.
I do know the staff warlock is amazing in damage but as I stated in the guide before, I don’t enjoy being stuck on the bamn thing when swapping midfight. This works in a shatter 60/40 shatter/phantasm build, but not in a 30/70 one.
Tides of time is great as you know, and one of the best things is it’s ability to hit multiple hitboxes, generating a lovely amount of damage against bloomhunger for example. Because of this I think s/p-s/sh will be the way to go for me, the pistol allows the 1200 range phant generation just like staff, after all.

Im aware of scepter’s faster rate in melee but the aftercast on the 3rd skill still makes it slower. I’d say scepter 3 allows the weapon to match sword until the foe count goes up from 1 to anything more, you seemed to have RE’d something similar so that’s fine.

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitline, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

As always my ideas come from a perspective where everybody does their respective jobs well, so I dont calculate the defensive capabilities of certain weapons in. Aegis on staff is great for partymembers, but I think Ill just be a selfish man and get BF for myself.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Oooh, so it’s chaotic persistence you’re doing the chaos line for, that makes a lot more sense than bountiful.
Frankly I am presuming revenant will be taken a lot for convenience so I personally won’t be worrying about it too much(you said this in the edit as well).

Yeah, I mean chaotic persistence/BD are different sides of the same coin. BD allows the boon upkeep for chaotic persistence, but yeah a rev sorta makes that pointless.

Sanderinoa.8065:

As you explicitely state that you focus on party dps over your own I won’t be argueing very much, it is what this build does very well.

Yeah, we did the math elsewhere, and keeping permanent quickness + alacrity on a full group is worth more dps than an additional ele. This, of course, is a full order of magnitude higher than the dps any other mesmer build in the game can hope to do, hence why I was using it.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Im aware of scepter’s faster rate in melee but the aftercast on the 3rd skill still makes it slower. I’d say scepter 3 allows the weapon to match sword until the foe count goes up from 1 to anything more, you seemed to have RE’d something similar so that’s fine.

If you poke around earlier in the thread, you’ll see a whole bunch of math I did regarding the scepter dps. Basically, even with malicious sorcery and permanent alacrity, sword still beats it slightly, not counting the incoming 10% buff to sword. This goes more in favor of scepter the less time you’re spending autoattacking, but ultimately I think sword wins both in damage and potential mitigation from blurred frenzy (though you’ll have shield block for mitigation too).

Sanderinoa.8065:

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitset, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

Yeah, it’s possible that you could get by without focus. The thing is that your utilities and use of continuum split are VERY locked in if you want to maintain the quickness and alacrity. Using a focus to just drop some wardens if you really need that reflection uptime is definitely the easiest way to accomplish that.

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitset, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

Yeah, it’s possible that you could get by without focus. The thing is that your utilities and use of continuum split are VERY locked in if you want to maintain the quickness and alacrity. Using a focus to just drop some wardens if you really need that reflection uptime is definitely the easiest way to accomplish that.

Looks like we do agree on most things, so that’s good. Im aware that this will lock you very much, which also means you’ll need to execute everything quite perfectly. Depending on the amount of reflection required and your party’s dps, situations will obviously ask for their own approach. I just hate wardens+quickness ;__; so Ill do my best.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitset, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

Yeah, it’s possible that you could get by without focus. The thing is that your utilities and use of continuum split are VERY locked in if you want to maintain the quickness and alacrity. Using a focus to just drop some wardens if you really need that reflection uptime is definitely the easiest way to accomplish that.

Looks like we do agree on most things, so that’s good. Im aware that this will lock you very much, which also means you’ll need to execute everything quite perfectly. Depending on the amount of reflection required and your party’s dps, situations will obviously ask for their own approach. I just hate wardens+quickness ;__; so Ill do my best.

Heh, I didn’t even consider how badly quickness would bork up wardens. FWIW, all the quickness is 5 target caps, so if your party is properly stacked, none should overflow to the wardens.

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitset, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

Yeah, it’s possible that you could get by without focus. The thing is that your utilities and use of continuum split are VERY locked in if you want to maintain the quickness and alacrity. Using a focus to just drop some wardens if you really need that reflection uptime is definitely the easiest way to accomplish that.

Looks like we do agree on most things, so that’s good. Im aware that this will lock you very much, which also means you’ll need to execute everything quite perfectly. Depending on the amount of reflection required and your party’s dps, situations will obviously ask for their own approach. I just hate wardens+quickness ;__; so Ill do my best.

Heh, I didn’t even consider how badly quickness would bork up wardens. FWIW, all the quickness is 5 target caps, so if your party is properly stacked, none should overflow to the wardens.

not if the warden stands just a little bit closer to the boss than your partymembers and he gets hit by tides of time .__."

Sanderinoa.8065:

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

As for reflections, Im THINKING that if you’re capable enough with your mesmer you won’t be needing focus anymore. if you really need reflections you’re going to have to choose to give up a well or a weapon+ traitset, as you can get about 4 feedbacks out of continuum split with mimic.

Yeah, it’s possible that you could get by without focus. The thing is that your utilities and use of continuum split are VERY locked in if you want to maintain the quickness and alacrity. Using a focus to just drop some wardens if you really need that reflection uptime is definitely the easiest way to accomplish that.

Looks like we do agree on most things, so that’s good. Im aware that this will lock you very much, which also means you’ll need to execute everything quite perfectly. Depending on the amount of reflection required and your party’s dps, situations will obviously ask for their own approach. I just hate wardens+quickness ;__; so Ill do my best.

Heh, I didn’t even consider how badly quickness would bork up wardens. FWIW, all the quickness is 5 target caps, so if your party is properly stacked, none should overflow to the wardens.

not if the warden stands just a little bit closer to the boss than your partymembers and he gets hit by tides of time .__."

Ahhh yeah, there is that -_-

Fay.2357:

Long story short:

General concept is a build that neglects personal dps in favor of party dps. You keep close to permanent alacrity and quickness on your entire party. The way you do this is with traited wells, shield, and time warp primarily. By cycling wells and possibly shield phantasms, you can have ~35-40 seconds of alacrity in a 45 second cycle time. By cycling wells, shield 5, and time warp, you can have 35-40 seconds of quickness in that same 45 second cycle time.

Doing this requires some boon duration. If you happen to have a herald in the party, you can rely on their 50% aura and not worry about it personally. If you don’t, you’re going to need to run chaos for upkeep on boons and the boon duration boost of chaotic persistence.

Edit: Will elaborate some more.

When I ran it, I used sw/shield + staff. Staff allowed me to get 2 illusions up at 1200 range, followed by a third from iLeap to immediately begin a full cSplit combo at the very start of a fight safely. It also augmented my boon upkeep, which allowed for more boon duration.

In situations where I needed some reflects, I’d swap out well of calamity in favor of feedback.

Ultimately in a proper team, you’ll have a herald and therefor won’t need chaos or staff for the boon upkeep on chaotic persistence. This allows you to go for a more normal offhand like focus for reflects or sw/pistol for damage. It also allows you to either pick up inspiration if you need reflects, or domination/dueling if you want to try and do some more damage.

Re Scepter: While it does gain on dps compared to sword when you apply permanent alacrity, it doesn’t gain enough to out-dps it in most situations, particularly when you factor in the 10% damage boost sword is getting.

Re Staff: It definitely doesn’t have the dps of sword, particularly in a power build. That being said, chaos storm is a pretty solid damage skill, along with being the only source of team aegis that a mesmer can provide. With the staff trait and permanent alacrity, the cooldown on it is going to be around 13-15 seconds cooldown, which is quite low. It also allows you to summon those 2 illusions at 1200 range, which really improves the reliability of the opening combo.

Ah, thank you for this. I was also getting confused and am glad for these clarifications. I thought I have to give up my scepter entirely, but it seems it may have some use after all (with sw/sh + sc/p). I wonder, with the whole “berserk” meta going down, would an alternative stat gear would go well or will it just stay with berserker’s? After all, it is not meant for highest dps.

Edit: I don’t know if it’s been mentioned (I’m sure it has), but what’s the thought of greatsword, out of curiosity. I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it. >.<

Phloww.1048:

Ah, thank you for this. I was also getting confused and am glad for these clarifications. I thought I have to give up my scepter entirely, but it seems it may have some use after all (with sw/sh + sc/p). I wonder, with the whole “berserk” meta going down, would an alternative stat gear would go well or will it just stay with berserker’s? After all, it is not meant for highest dps.

If you can run zerker, you still will run zerker. What remains to be seen is what sort of persistent damage pressure exists in the raids, you won’t be able to really make a judgement call on zerker or not until that’s known.

Phloww.1048:

Edit: I don’t know if it’s been mentioned (I’m sure it has), but what’s the thought of greatsword, out of curiosity. I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it. >.<

Greatsword is still sorta meh. It doesn’t have as high dps a phantasm as staff, doesn’t have the ability to summon illusions at 1200 range, and still is very weak up close.

@Sanderinoa
Pyro may be underselling BD just a bit here.
The build can keep 12 stacks of might persistently on the party, even ooc.
With the Herald’s ability to do the same with 16 stacks (Facet of Strength + the might trait), the party has a persistent 23-24 stacks.
So the ability of Chaos+Herald to replace alternate might generation becomes a decent argument in its favor, letting your warrior use weapons other than PS, your eles not needing to worry about fire field blasting, etc.

If you’re right about Herald being common in the new meta, then, it may be that chaos will still make sense—depending on what your other sources of might are.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

@Sanderinoa
Pyro may be underselling BD just a bit here.
The build can keep 12 stacks of might persistently on the party, even ooc.
With the Herald’s ability to do the same with 16 stacks (Facet of Strength + the might trait), the party has a persistent 23-24 stacks.
So the ability of Chaos+Herald to replace alternate might generation becomes a decent argument in its favor, letting your warrior use weapons other than PS, your eles not needing to worry about fire field blasting, etc.

If you’re right about Herald being common in the new meta, then, it may be that chaos will still make sense—depending on what your other sources of might are.

I did read up on BD, naturally, and it really does look cool to have a good might generation this way.
This would be extremely relevant if it would make for classes to be replaced in the party.
But due to the extreme ease with which eles keep up might, in combination with their blasting requirement for partywide fury, Im expecting the 25 stacks to simply be kept up through lava fonts anyways.

Mesmers are common to put a lot of effort into doing something which is much more easily attained through simple teamplay, this should not become too much of a habit.
Therefore I personally think we’re better off incorporating a blast or two in the rotation of other classes who can do so easily, rather than dedicating an entire traitline to it. As I stated above, I do think phantasms should keep a rather important role in the chrono playstyle, and these imaginary friends of mine want their might too

If it’s true that Chaos can be swapped out, then perhaps Inspiration could take it’s place.

With Inspiration you can get Medic’s Feedback in the first tier, although there isn’t much to take there, it could be useful during progression fights during raids, and general PvE.

In the second tier you can take Warden’s Feedback if reflects are needed, otherwise Restorative Illusion could be a solid choice for personal healing and condition removal. Considering we’re shattering on cool down, it could provide quite a bit of healing during heavy damage fights; especially since the zerker meta is suppose to be going away.

The last tier has two decent choices. Mental Defense could come in handy when you successfully block with shield 4 granting two illusions, and then the Deja Vu granting a third. The other good choice would be Illusionary Inspiration if Alacrity can be shared with your party. Even if it can’t, I’m pretty sure Quickness can.

Then, you have your minor traits like Mender’s Purity, which means super condition removal with the healing well. Inspiring Distortion could come in handy, but that would mean saving the shatter. Finally there’s Healing Prism.

Healing Prism would be awesome if they would lower the internal cool down. Considering we have two classes that have excellent healing support through Ventari’s Tablet and Ranger’s Druid spec, I don’t see any reason why we can’t lower Healing Prism’s cool down to something more worthwhile.

With that all said. If Inspiration becomes a thing, and especially if Healing Prism gets a more relaxed cool down, I could see this spec gravitating more towards a Celestial stat spread. I’m not sure if Celestial will be worth it if Healing Prism remains as is, though.

Sanderinoa.8065:

I did read up on BD, naturally, and it really does look cool to have a good might generation this way.
This would be extremely relevant if it would make for classes to be replaced in the party.
But due to the extreme ease with which eles keep up might, in combination with their blasting requirement for partywide fury, Im expecting the 25 stacks to simply be kept up through lava fonts anyways.

Mesmers are common to put a lot of effort into doing something which is much more easily attained through simple teamplay, this should not become too much of a habit.
Therefore I personally think we’re better off incorporating a blast or two in the rotation of other classes who can do so easily, rather than dedicating an entire traitline to it. As I stated above, I do think phantasms should keep a rather important role in the chrono playstyle, and these imaginary friends of mine want their might too

My only question on that is, why are PS warriors meta if it’s really that easy for the eles to fill that gap?

As I understand it, warriors are giving up a fair bit of dps for that extreme might generation.
Given that warriors are a naturally high dps class vs mesmers naturally low, it seems likely that the PS warrior is losing more total dps via PS than the mesmer is via Chaos. But if it’s worth it for the warrior to do that, why wouldn’t it be for the chrono to do so?

Yeah, the rotation to optimise blasting Fire fields is not necessarily the same as the one to optimise DPS output. I don’t have enough Ele or Warrior experience to say, but I suspect that PS Warriors are a thing precisely because they end up sacrificing less DPS than Eles would for the same Might generation.

Mesmer DPS is already crap, so if anybody is going to sacrifice personal damage for group offensive support, it should be us.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Sanderinoa.8065:

I did read up on BD, naturally, and it really does look cool to have a good might generation this way.
This would be extremely relevant if it would make for classes to be replaced in the party.
But due to the extreme ease with which eles keep up might, in combination with their blasting requirement for partywide fury, Im expecting the 25 stacks to simply be kept up through lava fonts anyways.

Mesmers are common to put a lot of effort into doing something which is much more easily attained through simple teamplay, this should not become too much of a habit.
Therefore I personally think we’re better off incorporating a blast or two in the rotation of other classes who can do so easily, rather than dedicating an entire traitline to it. As I stated above, I do think phantasms should keep a rather important role in the chrono playstyle, and these imaginary friends of mine want their might too

My only question on that is, why are PS warriors meta if it’s really that easy for the eles to fill that gap?

As I understand it, warriors are giving up a fair bit of dps for that extreme might generation.
Given that warriors are a naturally high dps class vs mesmers naturally low, it seems likely that the PS warrior is losing more total dps via PS than the mesmer is via Chaos. But if it’s worth it for the warrior to do that, why wouldn’t it be for the chrono to do so?

To be fair, warriors arent exactly a ‘high dps’ class. They are capable of doing more damage than the mesmer, but they havent been top tier dps since 2013. The warrior is taken because they have unique banners as well as other group damage support.
The reason PS warriors are taken a lot now is simply because it’s an easy and effective way of extremely high might generation.
Im not saying eles could fill that gap now, but I am saying that they’ll likely be able to once revenants join the party and icebow gets less of a priority.

I don’t know THAT much about revenants, but someone mentioned earlier that their might upkeep is around 16 stacks, which only leaves about 9 to be filled. This is extremely easy to fill in as you only need 3 blasts, and eles have one on their heal anyways.

I’m curious about the Rune selection. Why Traveler’s over something else with Boon Duration? It’s likely bordering on the realm of speculation of what the raid or group content for HoT will be, but… I can’t help but feel a chronomancer using Traveler’s when they already have that lovely little movement speed trait is a waste.

Of course all this speculation is based on the content of HoT being more healing power stat friendly (considering.. raids, and the introduction of Druid. It’s likely so.) But possible runes could be:

Water for example has 20% Boon Duration (>15% from travelers) , and healing power, as well as an extra ‘burst’ healing when using the heal skill.

Monk has the same Boon Duration, Also healing power based, but considering Well of Eternity’s ending heal. An extra 10% (triggering twice because of Continuum Shift) may be beneficial.

Altruism , is… unfortunately yet another healing power rune and has less Boon Duration than Traveler’s, but has might and fury on healing skill use. Though likely will only trigger once, depending on the frequency of use with Well of Eternity. – but it is more boon sharing to squeeze out the final couple might stacks (ONLY IF they are missing from your group) which could possibly net a larger personal offensive stat increase than Traveler’s , and definitely so if you are simply joining an unorganized pug.

What is the total boon duration achievable PvE wise, anyway, and is the cap still 100%?
10-20% from Rune. (15% traveler)
20% Food, 10% Bountiful Utility Consumable.
50% Herald

95% Boon Duration with Traveler’s (100% with Water.)

Sanderinoa.8065:

To be fair, warriors arent exactly a ‘high dps’ class. They are capable of doing more damage than the mesmer, but they havent been top tier dps since 2013. The warrior is taken because they have unique banners as well as other group damage support.
The reason PS warriors are taken a lot now is simply because it’s an easy and effective way of extremely high might generation.
Im not saying eles could fill that gap now, but I am saying that they’ll likely be able to once revenants join the party and icebow gets less of a priority.

I don’t know THAT much about revenants, but someone mentioned earlier that their might upkeep is around 16 stacks, which only leaves about 9 to be filled. This is extremely easy to fill in as you only need 3 blasts, and eles have one on their heal anyways.

Well, that makes sense.

As far as phantasm rotations go, I’d suggest (one if the points I made early in the thread) that focusing on getting a full 3-phant roster isn’t going to work out well, as you need to shatter a lot to be getting the alacrity you need, which interferes with the periodic waits that you need to sustain 3.

That said, given that same extreme shatter rotation, I think there’s a case to be made for using the PoM in conjunction with alacrity and Chronophantasma combo to use phantasms as a more disposable “fire and forget” offensive tool: let them live just long enough to get their first attack after creation, and their first attack post-daze, then shatter for the alacrity and MW damage.

At that point, the best phantasms for damage are gonna be a combination of strong dps and as low a cool down as possible.

That leaves warden, mage, duelist and avenger in the dust (dps wise),
and emphasizes swordsman, berserker and warlock relying on the weapon traits in dueling, Dom and chaos, respectively.

Warlock makes an interesting pick there, given the discussion on the potential value of chaos, but the low-dps focus of the build makes it a bit of a mismatch.

Berserker would suggest taking Imagined burden, which conflicts with Mental Anguish, so I suspect that one may not play out as well.

Swordsman had the best potential, as DE gives strong synergy with the high-shatter pace, sword is the first-choice for dps anyway, and it’s already the highest dps single-target phantasm already.

That said, shield won’t mesh incredibly well with the concept, unless we find a strong enough alacrity generation to displace some other less-damaging choices.
Or they fix slow being useless vs breakbar.