Guild Wars 2

.. I’m refering to me here, not the in-game condition.

So I started playing about a month ago, and chose mesmer as my initial character. I knew it was not a simple profession for a newbie but the idea was so cool I had to give it a shot. It was tough to level up, as I was warned.. and when I got to level 80 I found it still pretty hard to figure out. It seemed slow, ponderous and hard to find a good niche for in WvW, not ideal for PvE either, and at the time sPvP was something I didn’t really think I was interested in. I ended up mostly shelving it to work on other chars.

Fast-forward to today, someone I know says he wants to duel and goof around in PvP, so I head there for the first time. I start on my new warrior and switch to my thief, and it’s more fun than I expected. Then I try the mesmer out and it is WICKED fun… throwing all those clones and illusions out there. I even ’morphed him into a moa, eliciting a response that would be against forum rules to post but that had me almost literally ROFLing.

I began falling in love with mesmer again, but I still really don’t know what I’m doing. And when I took the mesmer back into PvE and WvW, it still seemed to be lacking. I think part of that is that I really need proper armor and don’t have it yet, but I’m not sure what to get.

The build is some sort of hybrid monstrosity that people here will probably think ill-advised. I had tried a few options but ended up coming back to GS/staff, because they are the two weapons I like most. I know one is mostly DD and one mostly conditions, and thus probably not ideal, but I just really like the combination.

Mostly a phantasm build I suppose. Traits are either 20/20/0/30/0 or 20/20/10/20/0 depending on my current tinker. It’s a pretty tanky, defensive build, not something I set out to do but it has high HP and good healing with restorative mantras and the mantras of pain and recovery. Despite this I often find myself CCed and/or slaughtered especially in WvW which is annoying.

I had some folks recommend PVT armor to me, which makes sense. But again the build seems to lean more defensive than offensive to begin with and I already have a lot of HP. Plus the PVT armor is crazy expensive… I could buy it but it would take a big bite out of my finances.

Anyway, any general recommendations or suggestions on what to do in terms of gear or build tweakage would be appreciated. I’m looking for more of a generalist than a specialist here, for the occasional dungeon or WvW or PvP encounter. In WvW, I’m much more interested in holding my own solo or in a small group (the ‘zerg’ doesn’t interest me much) though there the lack of easy passive mobility becomes an issue.

It’s past my bedtime so hopefully I didn’t mess up anything too badly there.

Regarding the WvW part of your post I can recommend this build, " http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRArf8alwzKoHTzoGb9IipHBnvBckUUavWJF42FC-jkCBINDimWAikGgEJ05QFRjtuuIasqbYqURWHTI1HIySBAzaA-w ". I’ve been trying it out these past few hours and it has generally won every kittening 1v1 encounter. it’s a condition build which primarily focuses on the torment condition,hence the torment runes. In this build I changed Sigil of Bursting and Sigil of corruption for Sigil of Torment for more torment procs other than your scepter 2 and heal.
With all the stealth,the PU trait and the toughness offered from your armor you’ll have great survivability
PS. I did not create this build,the credits goes to Rayvn.9832
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbt7YgMQeI Here is also a video showing it in action.

So, your post covers pretty much every aspect of the game. We’re going to need to focus a bit more.

Do you want your first complete gear set for PvE or WvW?

insaneseagull, thanks but I think that build requires quite a bit more ability than I have at the moment.

Pyro, yes, I guess I’m looking for something well-balanced, to the extent possible. I’m not even really sure what I like best so far!

There’s nothing wrong with using GS/Staff as long as you use the Staff primarily for defensive purposes (5+2, 4) and set your gear up for direct damage, using the GS as your main weapon. In big fights with lots of people, the iWarlock also hits for decent damage in a power build, because lots of different conditions will be flying around all over the place.

Thanks, that is pretty much what I use it for.

I also discovered that the PVT gear is not nearly as expensive as I thought. In fact, I might be able to get it cheap enough that I can make back the $ on it by salvaging it if need be. So I’ll start with that and see how it goes.

For something that would do OK in both dungeons and WvW, I’d think something like a GS & Sw/x phantasm build with Knight’s gear.

If you go full PVT gear, you’re going to have a huge health pool with those traits. That can be useful for some things, but you might want to mix it up with some zerker or assassin gear to get more crit change and damage. Critting isn’t much fun if you’re not buffing your crit damage too (in a power build anyway).

Thanks. I did buy the PVT gear, and I have an insane HP pool now (something like 25k). My crit profile is indeed quite low. I haven’t really had much of a chance to try it out yet in PvE, and while I went into WvW briefly it was just in a stupid zerg where it doesn’t matter what you’re wearing, only how many people are on each side. In fact, I’m not sure where I am even going to find a role for myself in WvW with this character.

Okay I just spent a bunch of time reading up on various WvW builds. It seems mesmer is fine with roaming type activity, I just need to find a build that works well and that I have enough skill to actually use.

I’m not sure my “tanky mesmer” really is going to be effective.

Right now looking at the Blackwater build, though it’s so different from how I’ve played mesmer that it would take some getting used to.

I think I want to focus on WvW. In sPVP it seems changing builds is trivially simple so it’s easier to experiment there. Happy for any further direction.. though mesmer’s reputation as being a confusing profession continues to hold true.

Qaelyn.7612:

Okay I just spent a bunch of time reading up on various WvW builds. It seems mesmer is fine with roaming type activity, I just need to find a build that works well and that I have enough skill to actually use.

I’m not sure my “tanky mesmer” really is going to be effective.

Right now looking at the Blackwater build, though it’s so different from how I’ve played mesmer that it would take some getting used to.

I think I want to focus on WvW. In sPVP it seems changing builds is trivially simple so it’s easier to experiment there. Happy for any further direction.. though mesmer’s reputation as being a confusing profession continues to hold true.

I use a build like Blackwater. It should work fine for you if you want to focus on WvW.

PvT isn’t very good for Mesmers. You don’t really need much if any vitality. You are missing Crit which for many builds is necessary.

You can keep PVT armor for when you want to do logistics. There’s no need for damage in order to portal. It’s one of the unique roles of the mesmer.

Thanks for the replies.

I decided to switch over to carrion gear. It’s working fairly well in PvE, haven’t played with it in PvP yet. I also did respec to 20/20/10/20 to get Debilitating Dissipation. It’s a purely ranged build with tons of clones flying around.

Oh dear. Please tell me you didn’t get a full set of carrion. Carrion gear is inferior in literally every possible way to rabid for a mesmer.

You really need that Precision from Rabid, altogether better stats for a Blackwater Build.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Oh dear. Please tell me you didn’t get a full set of carrion.

I did. But it’s only yellow gear, and I’m a patient shopper, so I can salvage it and get back probably more value in materials than I paid for it. That was a deliberate choice since I knew I’d probably be having to try again a few times.

As for rabid gear, it seems to be a lot harder to get than carrion.

Anyway, I have to apologize for this thread, I’ve done a bad job of communicating what I’m after making it hard for you smart people to help me.

I did quite a bit of experimenting today and learned a few things.

First, I stink at PvP. I probably will stink at PvP for a very long time, a combination of being new to the game, new to PvPing, older (slower reflexes) and not great under pressure.

Second, changing builds in PvP is trivially simple! So I’m not going to worry about build there, I can try things out on the fly.

So, ignoring PvP that leaves PvE and WvW. I’d like to do both, but realistically, I am not sure how well I can play a mesmer in WvW. I don’t like zerging, and mesmer doesn’t seem like an ideal roaming class for a new player. Maybe in a year when I know everything inside-out, but not now.

So that leaves PvE with occasional WvW visits maybe.

My attempt to make a build combining staff and GS, my two favorite weapons, may not work out. I know they are rather different weapons but I had seen some “general purpose” builds that seemed like they’d work okay. And to be honest, it’s not bad. It just doesn’t seem that great either. They are both good weapons, but there’s not a lot of synergy.

It’s mostly phantasm-oriented, and quite defensive, oriented largely towards buffing illusions and giving me more health and healing. But it seems GW2 really is a case of the best defense being a good offense, which may be part of my problem.

So I’m not really sure what to do now. I don’t really want to run a cookie-cutter build someone else made. Any suggestions on how to make a go of GS/staff? Or should I switch to something else? I’d be game to try something like Blackwater. I’m not a big fan of standing in melee using a sword on my mesmer.

Anyway, advice appreciated. For reference I’m currently 20 (V+X) / 20 (II + X) / 10 (V) / 20 (IV + X) / 0.

Ok, so.

WvW: If you intend on zerging, you’re either going to need some mix of knights/cavaliers for the toughness in a power based build, or full rabid (I use rabid/dire mix ascended accessories) for a condition based build.

If you intend on roaming, you’ll either want zerker with a bit of cavalier for sturdiness in a power based build, or rabid again for conditions.

PvE: Zerker. That’s pretty much it.

If you don’t plan to do wvw any time soon, I would recommend going for the ordinary berserker gear and get the gear, you eventually will need for wvw, through dungeon runs. No shame in having more than one set. ^^

Thanks for the reply.

I need to figure out first what sort of build I’m going with because I’m increasingly feeling like the gs/staff is too much of a mish-mash. Was just looking at your long build thread, wondering if it might be worth trying out. It doesn’t use either of the weapons I mentioned, but otherwise seems consistent with my general mesmer play style (stay away and let the phony me’s do the work!)

How feasible is it, realistically for a newer player to roam with a mesmer in WvW? Seems like I’ll just get nuked by nearly any decent player I come across.

Reesha: I do want to do some WvW. I’m just not sure how well I can at my current skill level. PvE is already starting to wear out its novelty.

I’ve used gs/staff in wvw almost exclusively actually and it is a monster imo and it fits well with my play style. It is a kiting machine and there’s just no way other classes can get close to you or land those heavy hits. I’ve had no problems for example with the op warrior hammer builds that everyone is complaining about or thieves and the like.

My build is in my siggy, but I swap it out for gs/staff, and adjust for a staff trait, and change out the blade training for wvw. The PU is basically a staple to just tack on to a build to have that toughness/boons. I have -42% inc damage, aegis and regen whenever i need to go defensive. This would be basically after you complete a gs dps chain and your enemy gets closer (cuz most actually do get closer and most roaming players you face are more melee), you switch to staff for defense (+my hydromancy sigils or whatever you feel is necessary) and catch them in chaos storm while you blink away, break your stuns, etc etc disappear. Pretty much the stealths and stuff keeps you alive.

You can run full zerker gear with those traits and you will do fine in roaming and have a terrific amount of damage. It is not a burst build for sure though, it is a heavy sustained build and I’ve outlasted alot of fights, including 1vX.

i primarily choose to go gs/staff for wvw, it is a lot of kiting fun and pretty crazy imo against most things…

Hey thanks for the reply and giving me some hope for GS/staff.

I looked at your build. Sword/sword is very different from staff, and I’m quite inexperienced, so I’m not sure what changes you make when you go GS/staff. Seems the traits would need to be quite different.. also, isn’t the staff more reliant on condition damage to be effective?

Any chance you might consider spelling out how you make that “monster” GS/staff variation? In nice small words for us newbies.

Thanks.

Also just spent a bit of time tinkering in sPVP (just against mobs) with the Blackwater condition build and a variation on Pyro’s phantasm build using sword+pistol and GS. Both are quite intriguing and both mostly defensive, though of course quite different from each other.

I like the high condition damage in the blackwater build but scepter and torch are both rather foreign to me and I am having trouble figuring out when to use what. In the phantasm build I wondered if sword might be better to add a bit of offense since without condition damage buffs the scepter doesn’t do a great deal of damage. The pistol phantasm is pretty nice.

Staff, no-no.
Go GS, sword/focus or GS sword/pistol

shimmerless.4560:

In PvP/WvW GS/Staff is phenomenally strong.

Okay, seems like some people say this and some say it’s not a good combo. I found one build for it but maybe it was just me but I wasn’t able to make it work too well.

More than open to build suggestions on GS/staff since it’s still my fave.. though scepter/pistol is starting to grow on me as well.

Qaelyn.7612:

Hey thanks for the reply and giving me some hope for GS/staff.

I looked at your build. Sword/sword is very different from staff, and I’m quite inexperienced, so I’m not sure what changes you make when you go GS/staff. Seems the traits would need to be quite different.. also, isn’t the staff more reliant on condition damage to be effective?

Any chance you might consider spelling out how you make that “monster” GS/staff variation? In nice small words for us newbies.

Thanks.

I just use the same traits, i like to be “versatile” which means to some people ineffective in diff situations but I don’t think so, i feel very balanced and stable like this and I can swap weapons on the fly. For traits, I switch the master trait for staff CD reduction and swap out the Dueling Adept trait to Phantasmal fury for more bleeds. You don’t need to go for condi damage as your staff is only for defensive purposes, though the condition damage by default it already has will help your damage anyway, if you catch your enemy in a chaos storm while giving yourself boons, and ur staff clones throwing more condi on them. it’s a temporary distraction, before you go back to your gs. Your staff phantasm will also do some nice damage, though not spectacular. Staff is a medium to CLOSE QUARTERS weapon, when they get close you can tank some damage with your chaos storm combos and get out of the way, keep swapping weapons to make distance with the phase retreat and it’s a powerful cycle of non stop kiting

Go power / straight damage in this case. Or you could choose to go blackwater / condi style, but stick with gs/staff. the gs would be for illusions stacking bleeds, or if you have a sigil on it that will help with condi then sure. gs/staff synergy would still be very much a kiting machine!

Thanks for the reply!

The only exotics I have right now are a GS and staff and I do like them both so I guess I should try to make this work if I can. I’m just still really not sure how to do it. The learning curve is pretty high for this class.

Really no idea how I’d work GS into a blackwater build, heh.

link coming later screwed up

my build for WvW . I beat pretty much every mesmer except very few really good ones that run PU build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQJARWlwzKoXTzoGbNJi5DB3ZGJH0RqQrVSBudhA-jkBB5QFRjtuuIasqbYqURWHTI1HIySBAzaA-w

my build for WvW . I beat pretty much every mesmer except very few really good ones that run PU build

Mogar.9216:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQJARWlwzKoXTzoGbNJi5DB3ZGJH0RqQrVSBudhA-jkBB5QFRjtuuIasqbYqURWHTI1HIySBAzaA-w

my build for WvW . I beat pretty much every mesmer except very few really good ones that run PU build

Just looking at that build, I have to doubt the effectiveness of it.

You’ve got deceptive evasion (shatter + clone death). You’ve got mental torment (shatter). Debilitating dissipation (clone death). Vigorous revelation (shatter). 25 Inspiration and phantasmal fury (phantasm).

You’ve got traits all over the place. None of them play nice with each other. They’re all running in different directions and you’re not going to be getting full use out of any of them.

Edit: and full rabid gear. What…?

Pyro, if you have any suggestions on a GS/staff build I’d be grateful to see them.

“Don’t do it” is an acceptable answer.

Qaelyn.7612:

Pyro, if you have any suggestions on a GS/staff build I’d be grateful to see them.

“Don’t do it” is an acceptable answer.

As far as pve goes, don’t do it is a pretty solid answer

I started with a gs/staff build, but as I improved I moved more and more away from it. Ultimately in pve you take all (most) weapons and swap on what is most effective for each individual fight.

In PvP, a gs/staff build is definitely viable. It plays as a tanky phantasm build, probably going deep into inspiration and chaos.

In WvW, gs/staff is viable. It’s mostly a Zerg build that is pretty optimized for long range tagging. It’ll still be mostly phantasm based, but with a bit more of a focus on normal weapon damage to provide good tagging from chaos storm and gs 1200 range attacks.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Mogar.9216:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQJARWlwzKoXTzoGbNJi5DB3ZGJH0RqQrVSBudhA-jkBB5QFRjtuuIasqbYqURWHTI1HIySBAzaA-w

my build for WvW . I beat pretty much every mesmer except very few really good ones that run PU build

Just looking at that build, I have to doubt the effectiveness of it.

You’ve got deceptive evasion (shatter + clone death). You’ve got mental torment (shatter). Debilitating dissipation (clone death). Vigorous revelation (shatter). 25 Inspiration and phantasmal fury (phantasm).

You’ve got traits all over the place. None of them play nice with each other. They’re all running in different directions and you’re not going to be getting full use out of any of them.

Edit: and full rabid gear. What…?

Zerker gear, I didn’t bother with gear. It’s a hybrid phantasm/shatter build. I don’t really feel like defending my build on paper but I’m happy to duel you any time

Thanks for the replies.

Pyro, is your “Overpowered PvP Phantasm Build” still current, and how do feel it fares in PvE or WvW (the latter more roaming/defense/small-group rather than zerg)?

@Qaelyn.7612
I use that build for PvE. I have only two months of experience and I feel that a phantasm build is more forgiving for new players. Basically, if you find yourself in a dungeon remove the scepter and change the OH sword with a focus. Also trait your focus with Inspiration VIII. In a large open world boss encounter it doesn’t really matter what you do since there is a zerg to complete the event for you. Anyway, this build plays very well versus champions, just familiarize yourself with their attacks and you will be able to block/evade anything. In other words, it’s a great solo build. You can also solo Caudecus story mode.

Thanks Soulseek.

Question: “Basically, if you find yourself in a dungeon remove the scepter and change the OH sword with a focus.” Change OH sword to focus and then remove the scepter for… ?

Do mean go sword/focus and sword/pistol?

Yeah, if you use no MH in your second set it will only change skills 4 and 5 when you swap. Also, don’t forget to substitute the 10% movement speed per clone with 20% glamour CD recharge.

In all fairness, the 10/30/0/30/0 is a very flexible build. You can experiment with sword/focus sword/sword and Empowering Mantras instead of Duelist Discipline

yeah i run gs/staff in pve…. very rarely, only if i have like a full melee team that doesnt need me really to do much or im solo-ing a crazy boss that i cant really get near which isn’t very ever… but i mean if you feel like just sticking with it and having a little fun, do what u want, just its clunky in many pve aspects. Open world can be done with it, just casually i guess

it’s fine in pvp and wvw, just get the feel for its playstyle, get into the rhythm and optimize it

Qaelyn.7612:

Thanks for the replies.

Pyro, is your “Overpowered PvP Phantasm Build” still current, and how do feel it fares in PvE or WvW (the latter more roaming/defense/small-group rather than zerg)?

It is still current. It will perform very well in WvW roaming, and I’ve written a small guide on roaming with it.

In PvE, the trait distribution and basic concepts are sound, but you wont want to be using scepter, as that’s a defensive choice only relevant in PvP. You’ll probably just go for a double mainhand sword setup, swapping out either the pistol or sword for a focus (and traiting the focus) when appropriate.

I have run with this build in WvW with a small 4-7 ppl group with great success (or should I say just fun?). It allows me to switch to GS – Sw/P if I want to solo (though is not as strong as the blackwater if you face 1v2)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJAWRlwzipHVTsGbNJi5D92ZGQHzRqgqVSBudhA-jkDBYLBiiAisAI5BK7RYNBKhlhFRjVbDTdCVfCR/CSDDWFDwfIpyAwMGA-w

Thanks for the replies!

Just had a chance to test variations of both Pyro’s build and the Blackwater in a couple of quick duels with a friend in PvP. He’s new so it’s not a real test but they were both at least basically effective and I was able to make them work fairly well. For Pyro’s build I tried scepter/sword+sword/pistol as well as scepter/pistol+GS and sword/pistol+GS.

I think the Blackwater may be a bit easier for me to handle. Problem there is rabid gear is hard to come by so it may have to wait.

Xenn I’ll try that out too thanks!

Just did a bit more dueling with the Blackwater build. Actually beat one warrior a couple of times, he must have also been new and didn’t seem to know how to deal with conditions. The second guy was also a warrior and we went round and round and round… must have been like 5 minutes because I turned him into a moa at least twice. In the end he caught me when my attention flagged but otherwise we could have gone in circles forever. For me, a (near) tie’s a win, I’m fairly pleased with that.

@Qaelyn, if you’re still looking for GS/Staff ideas for PvP/WvW, check out chillruption in my signature. Very fun to play in both formats. It’s not a roaming build – it does nicely in zergs and smaller roaming groups. In PvP you’re a point disrupter and it actually roams pretty well even though imbued diversion is wasted in 1v1’s. I’ll make an honorable mention for it though if you face a mesmer, ranger (or any other class that can spawn “pets” in any way).

I need to update the build because lately I’ve improved it by:

• Running either full ice runes (vitality is huge in PvP due to the condition spam) or lyssa (extra precision and condition removal is nice)
• Decoy instead of arcane thievery.
• Biggest change is running bountiful interruption versus chaotic dampening. The might you can acquire and maintain by doing this is not something to be overlooked.

Thanks skcamow. Now that’s a very different, interesting build. Might be a bit too complex for me but something to keep in the back pocket!