Guild Wars 2

Click here for Part 2 of the Interview!

Supcutie has represented shatter Mesmer for pretty much as long as the game has been released. He has gone on to participate in the highest, most competitive level tournaments and still finds time to help tutor and instruct others. Despite all that, and still having a life, he’s written the most comprehensive and informative shatter Mesmer guide you’ll ever read!

I managed to get a few words on his general opinion on Mesmer in the PvP Meta from the perspective of a Shatter player. Next time I’ll get into tournament-specifics. Enjoy!

(Note this is all from one person’s -highly educated- perspective. Not everyone will agree, and if so/not feel free to discuss your opinion!)

• You know, the most awkward thing when speaking to you is trying not to call you “cutie” all the time. Why the name Supcutie?

To be perfectly honest, I used to go by another alias, but I wanted to change, and Supcutie was a placeholder until I thought of something better. And now here we are >_>

• What got you in to Mesmer? Why do you still consider it your “main” even if you’re not running it in tPvP?

When GW2 was first being announced, all of my friends and I were picking professions, and we didn’t want to be the same profession. So Reevzy picked engineer/elementalist, I thought I might like engineer too, but I picked Mesmer because I figured if GW2 can actually pull off a class that allows the player to confuse other players, I want to try that! I feel like Mesmer is a unique class type in that respect, even among other MMOs.
I started playing Mesmer in Beta alongside Ohriginal and some other WoW guys who were constantly so annoyed by always thinking they got the drop on me and it was just another clone. I just thought this was hilarious – The confusion was actually working! So I stuck with it! Little known fact, my first build was actually a tanky bunker type Mesmer using runes of the adventurer back when they gave you full endurance back. It was pretty good (no it wasn’t).
I consider Mesmer my main even if I don’t always play it in every comp I compete in because it’s my best profession, I enjoy it, and people know me for it.

• What is Mesmers strengths and role in PvP? What do we offer to a team that other classes can’t?

Mesmer’s role in sPvP/tPvP is a roaming damage dealer. You gank for your allies, and are the DPS to finish/turn a fight. Mesmer’s strength’s are high damage from range while being quite elusive (although Thieves will still get you if you don’t have support)
Another strength that Mesmer has is Portal. It’s not required, but it’s quite unique. It allows some crazy rotations that otherwise are not possible, netting your team some extra points over time that the other team won’t be able to get.
Some other strengths are:

Moa: which offers a direct counter to the enemy team’s transformations. It basically gives the enemy team an instant -1 player to their fight.

Mass Invisibility: Allowing quick deaggro/target swaps without needing to stand in a circle to blast or be refuged.

Clone fodder that will eat enemy procs like burning.

• What is the most common mistake you see newer players make?

It’s hard to pinpoint one thing that newer players do, but I would say with the PvP shatter spec it’s a combination of:

Not shattering enough.

Wasting clones by producing too many without shattering or not shattering them before they die.

Getting too close to the enemies – With Staff/GS there is little reason to get up close to do good enough damage. If you are stealthed and looking to open on something along side another burst then you can get closer.

Not reacting quick enough to CC – Since Mesmer is so fragile, you need to be ready to blink/decoy/distortion to mitigate as much damage as possible if people are looking to do damage to you.

Oh and Backpedalling! If you don’t need to face your opponent for an attack, you should be repositioning. This means using GS 4 for example while walking away or to a new place.

• What is the most common mistake you see advanced players make?

Positioning – many players will overextend too much and be collapsed on or picked by a Thief.
Wasting cooldowns. They will blow everything too quickly, or at the wrong time when there was a better solution.

• How would you rate Mesmer weapons for PvP? Is there a place for offhand sword and pistol?

Most of Shatter mesmer’s damage is in GS attacks and shatters alongside staff autos from clones with the new extra bounce trait. This means that selecting weapons other than GS should come down to utility, since the investment of using a particular weapon won’t yield you proportionally enough effectiveness in terms of damage compared to GS or Shatters. Offhand pistol and sword are more damage related, and from my personal experience and many others, the damage doesn’t get off enough of the time against good players to be worthwhile. Also you have to use Sword mainhand if you want to use offhand pistol or sword, and currently mainhand sword is not as good as Staff in my opinion for sPvP. Staff has better matchups and is safer. You need a Thief on your team to peel other thieves anyway.

• What is your opinion of condition Mesmer? It’s got good 1v1 potential and the new Maimed trait is delicious.

Condition Mesmer is strong 1v1, but the current rotational meta in tPvP is such that you want your 1v1ers to also be good 1v2ers. There’s no point in risking a 1v1/1v2 on mesmer when you can have a d/d ele stalemate or even win most matchups and survive ganks fairly well while your thief/mes rotate around to gank advantageous fights. Condition mesmer also doesn’t have good enough condition application for team fights, so its effectiveness low compared to Shatter.

• It is often said that Mesmer is not viable in high end play. Could you elaborate on why this is, and what you would change? Also would you advise people againstplaying Mesmer?

It has always been the case that mesmer “can” be on a winning team, if the team puts enough time and effort into their comp, perfecting synergy and rotations on how to support the Mesmer. In the majority of GW2’s metas however, Mesmer comps have been seen as weaker versions of other comps. I think the reason for this is a combination of Mesmer being susceptible to condis, and Thieves. It means the Mesmer has low room for error for equal success relative to another profession. This relative effectiveness of Mesmer to other professions fluctuates with the meta, but in my opinion and I think many top players will agree, Mesmer has almost always(especially in the last year) resulted in a slightly weaker team composition compared to other comps.
If you want to get down to the nitty gritty. This could be a problem with Mesmer’s best spec being power based, and to be effective with power the Mesmer needs to stat for Power, Crit, and Ferocity. Whereas condi classes usually only require two stats, and then can have one defensive stat. Also, the nature of conditions is that most condi classes have many ways to apply them, so the spamminess becomes hard to dodge, whereas power classes usually have one big burst that if they miss due to a dodge or other form of mitigation, their relative effectiveness drops a lot compared to conditions. Obviously there is a lot of room for argument here but I think these are at least some leads as to why Mesmer seems to have trouble.
I wouldn’t advise against playing Mesmer, just know that if you want to be competitive, you will have a struggle ahead of you. I still enjoy playing it for fun. I solo queue and stream Mesmer gameplay. If you want to play to win however, Mesmer most likely isn’t in the answer.
I think a good place to start for changes would be nerfing celestial amulet simply put. I haven’t done the math on how many points to nerf the stats by, but maybe like 70-100 points each? Basically you just want to make it so that other amulets begin to look attractive again for Ele/Engi.

• How would you rate difficulty of fighting other classes from least to most? Any specific quick-tips against these classes?

From easiest to hardest:
Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

Warrior – Pretty easy if you kite. Dodge pin down, dodge hammer skills, don’t sit in AoE too long.

Guardian – You can kite them pretty well with staff, even meditation guardians can be slain now due to the extra bounce conditions with staff. Bunkers can be hard to kill sometimes, but usually they die eventually.

Necromancer – Stay max range as much as possible until you’re ready to make a swoop to do some damage, then get back out. If you take Mantra of Resolve this matchup is totally doable. If not, it sort of becomes a race against your health pool running out.

Elementalist – D/D is doable if you kite and stay away from the burn/shocking aura. S/F is quite difficult because their burst is instant and if they make it unpredictable you can’t counter it very effectively.

Ranger – They overwhelm you with conditions or burst you down with longbow. Out in the open, longbow will slay you, close range, conditions will slay you. Basically you need to be really diligent in line of sighting, doing damage when you can, healing with three clones for maximum sustain. If you can gank a longbow power ranger you can probably win, but just be careful. Stunbreak quickly if they stun you to avoid maul.

Thief – They have more stealth than you and it becomes a statistical guessing game that you lose.

You shouldn’t try to hold a point in your favor with Mesmer. You will be neuted almost immediately in all matchups. Leave the point holding to tankier people!

• If someone likes Mesmer but is looking to branch out, what other classes would you recommend?

Thief – Similar in terms of stealthy/elusive/bursty.
Necro/Engi – You do a lot of kiting.

• Do you feel standard shatter (4/4/0/0/6) is the only “viable” Mesmer comp? Why? Whats your favorite Mesmer playstyle BESIDES shatter?

Shatter is such a synergetic build it’s ridiculous. I think it’s most viable because it is so synergetic and has good cost-effectiveness in terms of traits, but also because of how Mesmer needs to be played based on it’s strengths/weaknesses.
My favorite Mesmer playstyle/build other than Shatter is lockdown/interrupt. With 4/4/6 using chaotic interruption/bountiful interruption/interrupt mantra instead of portal, and S/F GS. I have the build here: http://bit.ly/supcutielockdown You can use Hoelbrak/Traveler/or Pack runes instead of Lyssa.

• If you were kidnapped (bag over your head and all) sent to a warehouse and FORCED on your life to come up with the most viable, epic, amazing all-Mesmer comp. What would you put together and why?

All mesmers… Hm… Shatter, 2 bunker mes (like this build, except maybe have one take the cleanse mantra. http://bit.ly/zeromisbunker), maybe a phantasm, and then last you could do another bunker, shatter, or maybe a lockdown. I really have no idea haha. Basic idea is you need people who can rotate on and off points to hold it, so 2-3 bunkers, and then some damage dealers. Phantasm I feel like might be able to hold a point for a bit?

• Beyond shatter, other Mesmer types have wormed their way into PvP. What other builds have impressed you the most? What roles do you think the following builds should play:

Impressed: Chaotic Interruption lockdown and the bunker mesmer spec that Zeromis showed me http://bit.ly/zeromisbunker.

• What role do those builds play?

PU – Condition – A really ineffective 1vX build – because a d/d for example will just cap the point while you stealth around and do little damage.

Mantra Offensive – Good if you have a lot of support and want to blast someone’s face off. Problem is shatter is a better ratio of damage to survivability because you can still burst people with shatter, but you can also live a lot better than Mantra.

Mantra Support (Restorative Mantras) – It’s alright if you’re doing the bunker build I mentioned. You still have to cast mantras though.

CS/CI Lockdown – Lockdown is good if you have enough dps on your team. Problem here is that if you have enough dps on your team, there’s probably something better than lockdown to have instead. Like another Ele or engi.

Condi Shatter – Bad because you don’t do enough team fight damage, and you can’t 1v2 as good as a d/d, war, ranger, or even engi.

Power Phantasm – Your phantasms will die too quickly or be controlled by good players. The ramp up time is too long. If you’re a glass DPS, you need to come in, turn the fight/win it very quickly and leave. By quickly I mean if you’re outnumbering the enemy you should be able to kill them within 20 seconds most likely. It’s also not as good at 1vX as others.

• Any shoutouts?

Shout out to my Mesmer boizzzz:
Zeromis
Pyro
Chaos
Rylock
Helseth
Crazy Red Headz
Mime
Ender
These guys keep me trained up and on my toes!
I also want to thank
Zina!

And basically the whole PvP community, I love playing with you guys!
I’m probably forgetting a bunch of people I’m sorry haha! I love you all!

nice thanks

but i am bit confused
if the shatter role is a roaming dmg dealer thus trying to flip 1v1 to 2v1 etc
why to compare it to condi shatter
i dont think condi shatter is a roaming role rather holding/capping points till helps comes but not as a bunker
like taking close or far
as condi shatter can take 1v1 almost every class and if play right can do 1v2 for short time as power shatter will burst and blink away from 1v2 as it not his streangh and role in the arena. also d/d ele will just burst and heal away from 1v2

sure some builds with condi cleanse wont feel you but as the bunker guard or warrior for power shatter

i play tpvp for fun with 0,4,4,0,6 build and find it very effective
though my main problem is power shatter in 1v1 but in team fight i always get the highest points with killing and capping . and if i teamup with bunker guard on mid its so fun 2v2 or 2v3

i comper condi shatter to condi ranger/necro/engi for that matter

also the condi shatter can push on a point nice aoe dmg

As stated above by messiah, I disagree on the points about condi shatter. Supcutie says it doesn’t provide a lot of damage in team fight scenarios, but given that you basically condition-bomb areas with each illusion, it contributes much more in team scenarios than the single-target bursting power shatter. This, with the tankiness it gains from being a condition build, makes it more suited for 1v2 fights than power shatter as well.

Other than that, though, I found this very interesting.

Quick question: When ele/engi get nerfed (the classes need to be nerfed themselves not cele ammy), do you think lockdown Mesmer will shine? Otherwise I agree with most of what was said besides condi shatter Mesmer, as the team fight is actually kinda good. It is almost impossible to not have some torment on in the fight, its basically perma 4+ stacks of torment in the fight for the enemy team. Putting 15+ stacks of torment on someone and watching them die in 3-5 seconds also never gets old

I have been playing mesmer since the game launches. It is sad to repeatedly hear those top tier competitive players saying that mesmer is not viable in high end matches. With the reason similar to Supcutie, Zoose, 2014 NA all-stars who plays elementalist, have said “Who the hell still playing that class (mesmer)” as a reference that mesmer is not viable in high tier games. In the 2014 international all-stars tournament, I was so depressed that Supcutie chose to play thief (and ranger?) instead of mesmer. I have given myself a reason that maybe mesmer does not fit into the team composition. Furthemore, even with the difference between peasants and kings, Helseth had not overcome the mesmer’s disadvantages and recently learning necromancer with the excuse that, “[he] is so good as a mesmer, and mesmer doesn’t make [him] grow as a player anymore, so [he] pick another class.” The nightmare of my mesmer spirit has not end here, yet, my depression to mesmer is growing as it comes to the match-ups against thieves.
Thieves are known as the hardest counter to us in our mesmer community. I often found it difficult to play against thieves in 1v1 situation or in the teamfight when the thief is targeting me. A video published by Vashury has given some great tips against thieves, but that does not seem to work in high competitive games due to thieves’ high mobility. I have won fights against one or even two thieves in my experience, however, this does not build up my confidence on mesmer. As I watch the gameplays of some top tier thieves, e.g. Magic Toker, Sizer and Vanish, I know that the thieves I have beaten are just terrible (like really terrible). Additionally, the guessing game against thieves that Supcutie mentioned is “you guessed wrong, you die. If you guess it right, you have a slightly chance to win”. Helseth has also given some tips against thieves with different builds but is followed by “then you die, because he is still a thief”. From the mouth of the top tier mesmer players, I feel hopeless against thieves.
Do we really need to live under the fear of the shadows? Can the innocent purple butterflies escape from the shadows and create a butterfly effect on the battlefield that is not a team building around it?
continue with trolls
With the underperformance of mesmer in top tier games (maybe with some other classes like necro and ranger), we can see how anet did a great job to balance the game. On the other hand, we already having a hard time to level our class compare to others (don’t tell me about eotm or zergs, these are for losers…or for another character). In dungeons, there are always better choices (except the portal in cof! Is it p1 or p2?). Or are we just the veil bot(What is it btw, putting veil for team?)?
OR can we get a staff phantasm that is holding a staff and make a mist version of that staff so I can have an excuse to not get the bifrost?
OR just let me see some butterflies when I dodge, just like the thieves have a special effect on their dodge?
trolls ended

Okay, now I can back to practice my mesmer.

please allow me to troll more
last one I promise
*How can the thieves steal something that is not even exists?? consume plasma!!?? gain all boons!!?? we can’t even do that as a mesmer itself (except with pre-nurf lyssa runes). where did the thieves steal that from?

about the condition shatter not good in team fight, does it mean that the clones will whether get cleansed before pressing shatter key or will be cleansed while the clones running to the opponent?

Regarding Thieves and top tier play…

It’s not so much that Mesmer succumbs to thief, but rather shatter mesmer succumbs to thief. Since the wisdom of the superstars is that shatter is the only viable mesmer build, it is therefor concluded/said that Mesmer succumbs to thief.

You want to overcome the mesmer meta slum you got to change the meta recipe. Either on the macro (game), or micro (class) level. Players have some control over this with the decisions they/the team decide to make. If it’s really true that there’s no viable options to be made, then it’ll require Anet to save the day.

Hey just wanted to clarify a few points

I was answering questions from the perspective of sPvP/tPvP, so yes I’m talking about shatter in relation to Thieves. Other specs that do well against thieves have a net loss in terms of impact overall in sPvP/tPvP relative to other classes you could take instead.

About condi shatter and team fights – because of the celestial high sustain meta right now, there is enough condi cleanse in fights to make condi shatter simply not enough damage. If you are playing Mesmer, you need the burst in order to make progress. Otherwise you need to play another class that has a better sustain (damage mitigation/avoidance and healing per damage output basically) which will allow you more room for error and more opportunities to outplay your opponents.

Hopefully that helps a bit, let me know if you have more questions!

Also I want to say that as always there are many ways to approach balance. Celestial amulet can be nerfed, or you can nerf the classes that utilize it best.

Supcutie.2538:

Hey just wanted to clarify a few points

I was answering questions from the perspective of sPvP/tPvP, so yes I’m talking about shatter in relation to Thieves. Other specs that do well against thieves have a net loss in terms of impact overall in sPvP/tPvP relative to other classes you could take instead.

About condi shatter and team fights – because of the celestial high sustain meta right now, there is enough condi cleanse in fights to make condi shatter simply not enough damage. If you are playing Mesmer, you need the burst in order to make progress. Otherwise you need to play another class that has a better sustain (damage mitigation/avoidance and healing per damage output basically) which will allow you more room for error and more opportunities to outplay your opponents.

Hopefully that helps a bit, let me know if you have more questions!

Also I want to say that as always there are many ways to approach balance. Celestial amulet can be nerfed, or you can nerf the classes that utilize it best.

Funnily enough, I’ve found that they don’t have enough condition cleanse to keep up with MtD. That’s just been my experience. If you don’t focus on putting it all on them at once, instead shattering every 4-6 seconds, they’ll use up their cleansing to get rid of the 6 stacks of Torment they currently have, which seems damaging enough, plus the Confusion which is quite annoying. In which case, they’ll run out of cleanse faster than you run out of conditions to hand out. This, at least, has been my experience.

As you said, if we’re not going to burst, we’ll need more sustain, but, as stated, condition shatter has more survivability in taking hits than power shatter. If you use this sustain well, you can achieve great results in different scenarios than power shatter, such as providing a constant and strong pressure which power shatter simply can’t in team fights with a large amount of AoE Torment/Confusion and condition-applying clones. By this, I mean it fits slightly different roles than the shatter we knew.

@Dondagora That strategy might work in lower end gameplay, but taking that much time to get your damage off in higher end games will result in your team being dead. Not to mention, generosity sigil transfers torment first every time. Sure you have more survivability with the condi spec but the ratio of sustain to effective damage output is less than shatter, especially when you consider clone pathing from positioning that you need to have and clones being killed by aoe.
Chaos and I were just talking about how there are good builds and great builds. Condi may be a good build, but it’s not good enough for high end play. Of course, having fun builds for all level of play is important. As of now, I would say play what you want since celestial overshadows us anyway.

Supcutie.2538:

@Dondagora That strategy might work in lower end gameplay, but taking that much time to get your damage off in higher end games will result in your team being dead. Not to mention, generosity sigil transfers torment first every time. Sure you have more survivability with the condi spec but the ratio of sustain to effective damage output is less than shatter, especially when you consider clone pathing from positioning that you need to have and clones being killed by aoe.
Chaos and I were just talking about how there are good builds and great builds. Condi may be a good build, but it’s not good enough for high end play. Of course, having fun builds for all level of play is important. As of now, I would say play what you want since celestial overshadows us anyway.

Perhaps. I can’t speak for highest-tier PvP, since I don’t usually do tourneys and such.

I agree on the celestial nerf, of course, though.

Supcutie.2538:

@Dondagora That strategy might work in lower end gameplay, but taking that much time to get your damage off in higher end games will result in your team being dead. Not to mention, generosity sigil transfers torment first every time. Sure you have more survivability with the condi spec but the ratio of sustain to effective damage output is less than shatter, especially when you consider clone pathing from positioning that you need to have and clones being killed by aoe.
Chaos and I were just talking about how there are good builds and great builds. Condi may be a good build, but it’s not good enough for high end play. Of course, having fun builds for all level of play is important. As of now, I would say play what you want since celestial overshadows us anyway.

i cant comment on high tier tpvp but i did some tpvp and 1v1 against cele ele /guardian and every build with good cleanse etc.
they really hate me
even if i just burst them and they get cleanse in this time they dont do any dmg to my team
i basically shut them down even if not killed
yes ele can run from me but let them run from the point leaving your team with 3v2
also its more harassing build which make the enemy to use utilities while your team has the advantage

i try to compare it to condi necro or condi ranger and the burst dmg is much higher aoe or single target
sure the necro got more health with ds and fear but condi shatter get more burst condi dmg output with 3 shatters and some daze abilities
i use dd trait so even when my clones die they proc conditions

i guess till someone will try it out in high tier we will never know

also i try to compare dps between shatter power and condi
yes power one can down enemy fast but then need to blink away for their next cd burst while condi just shatter the hell of the point over and over without the need to w8 for next big cd to burst
so while power will do 20k dmg on 1 enemy condi will do 5-10k on 3 enemies

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Quick question: When ele/engi get nerfed (the classes need to be nerfed themselves not cele ammy), do you think lockdown Mesmer will shine? Otherwise I agree with most of what was said besides condi shatter Mesmer, as the team fight is actually kinda good. It is almost impossible to not have some torment on in the fight, its basically perma 4+ stacks of torment in the fight for the enemy team. Putting 15+ stacks of torment on someone and watching them die in 3-5 seconds also never gets old

i see more lockdown build in tpvp than ever. i hate them when i play guardian/warrior
but i dont see them doing much dmg rather shut me down while other being dmg me

and my torment stacks 5 aoe with 5 confusion stacks which means 400-800 torment dmg and 1k confusion. which make them think twice if to move or use skills/dodges
some kind of shutdown

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Sup is talking about tPvP scenarios such as teamfights ect. While 1v1 Condi shatter can really wreck classes even with high condi removal, this gets much harder in 2v2/3v3 situations where clones are less reliable, it’s harder to nail shatters and enemies aren’t only cleansing themselves but EACHOTHER. For example two torment shatter Mesmer would have a hard time against two cele-Eles, whereas 1 torment shatter wouldn’t have as much difficulty against 1 cele ele…

Celele?!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Sup is talking about tPvP scenarios such as teamfights ect. While 1v1 Condi shatter can really wreck classes even with high condi removal, this gets much harder in 2v2/3v3 situations where clones are less reliable, it’s harder to nail shatters and enemies aren’t only cleansing themselves but EACHOTHER. For example two torment shatter Mesmer would have a hard time against two cele-Eles, whereas 1 torment shatter wouldn’t have as much difficulty against 1 cele ele…

Celele?!

may be so but is there any difference from condi necro or ranger or engi?

Necro flips condis, engi has aoe condi cleanse, ranger has a lot of passive cleanse.

Supcutie.2538:

Necro flips condis, engi has aoe condi cleanse, ranger has a lot of passive cleanse.

Are you saying these condition builds are more viable than torment shatter because of their cleanses?

This is one of the reasons I will swap to conditions based on the other teams comp. The condition build I use has a lot of Self/AoE clenses.

If I run a MoTD build I do it for the stealth to counter thieves/torch shatter mesmer or for the clenses and conditions to load engineers.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

I thought this was kind of weird. Do other mesmers think engi is easiest to beat?

Mes range advantage isn’t so significant with rifle, nades and magnet. A lot of engis damage from condis which are so easily applied and most mes builds have such little condi removal.

Very informative, thank you.

I’m mainly a Power Shatter mesmer but I’ve also recently been using the MtD condition Shatter. It is effective in the lower end PVP (I’ve been doing lower PvP since fall now since I can’t find a stable team and I’ve been pretty casual as of lately).
One of the reasons I think it’s effective their is because people don’t expect it. When they see a mesmer, they are thinking of a power build most of the time. They blow their cleanses on the slightest conditions like some torment and conditions from scepter/staff clones because they are not expecting the full burst of MtD torment (up to 6 torment stacks per shatter, and if you generate clones quickly enough using a CoF Mind Wrack chain, they can get up to 12). It’s essentially the same as baiting someone in a power build.

Good players, however, should know how to counter this, especially since the real burst comes from only scepter block + shatters, which can be dodged and cleansed. Also, there is almost no boon ripping from the build, which power shatters really excel at and is one of their valued strengths in a team fight.

Zaix.2480:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

I thought this was kind of weird. Do other mesmers think engi is easiest to beat?

Mes range advantage isn’t so significant with rifle, nades and magnet. A lot of engis damage from condis which are so easily applied and most mes builds have such little condi removal.

Yes Engineer is easy to beat. They can’t hit you with their nades easily when you move about and their rifle doesn’t have the same range as greatsword. Also most Engineer damage comes from power not condis in the celestial meta.

An engi is very easy to beat until they supply crate. Then you just leave the 1v1.

Zaix.2480:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

I thought this was kind of weird. Do other mesmers think engi is easiest to beat?

Yeh, there are only a few engi players out there I worry about. Then again, I play on point a lot more than I should. >_>;

Calypso.2578:

Zaix.2480:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Engineer – Easiest. Keep your range, they’re pretty easy to proc halting strike on, and if they are line of sighting you remember you can knock back with GS 5 through line of sight to get more distance when you come around the corner.

I thought this was kind of weird. Do other mesmers think engi is easiest to beat?

Yeh, there are only a few engi players out there I worry about. Then again, I play on point a lot more than I should. >_>;

If an engie is already sitting on point, open with a ranged assault. Their health will start dropping pretty quickly without there being much they can do about it, at which point you dive in for some close range burst and with a bit of lockdown there’s nothing they can do. Interrupting that sup crate always feels sooooo good. I think partly because the animation is so huge but then there’s nothing on the ground after

It is nice to hear the opinion of other mesmers on what classes are easier to fight against.
Recently I have changed over to engi when it comes to pvp.
The extra survivability is nice (in general) but mesmers do give me trouble because of the potential to burst me down with ranged shatters.
Personally, I don’t think engi is in a bad place at the moment (it could be because I am playing it) but it has a few weaknesses which are easy to apply for just about any class. The range on the rifle isn’t that great so it generally has to be quite close in order to do significant damage and it is susceptible to cc and conditions.
The current meta engi with three kit cele only has the one condi removal from it’s healing turrent. Though I will admit the cool down is short but if you can stack them with condi then cc them a bit they generally crumble.
While I was playing mesmer in spvp I found the class to be very lacking. There are not that many classes that you can burst down quickly and generally you need a lot of support from your team that, in a spvp match you are generally not going to get. Though at the same time, it still is my favourite class it is just that playing on my engi offers a lot more to the team I am with.

Sorry that this post is mainly from an engi pov the class is still new and fresh to me so I am still semi gushing over it.

About to hit Supcutie with some more questions, does anyone have anything they’d like to ask as well?

Hmm, how does he decide between using mass invisibility and moa morph?

Timewarp viable with the cd change? I Ran it last night and want impressed, but I forgot I had it a few times after losing a group fight

What’s his most favorite item from the Costco menu?

Boxers or briefs?

Favorite Costco menu item? Daaaat salad.
Boxer Briefs.
Answering your questions in a forum mail Chaos sent me so he can format it.

I don’t fully agree with Hans that the issue with Thieves comes down to a guessing game. Actually I find Thief stealth predictable with the (admittely major) exception of Shadow Refuge. Also I think D/P Trickery (which tends to be the stealth-heaviest of the popular tourney specs) is the best that shatter Mes can hope for in terms of Thief matchups. With something like staff + s/s I have a 3:1 favorable ratio vs D/P. Of course the issue here is that sword is unreliable and terrible for mid fights and dropping greatsword hurts your team value. But that is essentially the issue with shatter full stop — it is possibly the most restrictive spec in the game.

As far as Thieves go I think it lies more in things like shortbow abuse, the stability from plasma, fire/air (in fairness I think this is overbearing on Mesmer too), heal denial and just gamey things like LoS and pathing tactics that make it very rough for meta Mesmer. The no-restrictions ports mean that even when you can take a Thief with cooldowns there’s nothing to stop you just getting backstabbed in the middle of a team fight or the like. Sword is the best defense against this type of play but then you are much less desirable for teams. So it’s a bit of a catch-22.

My opinion though is a little difficult to explain. I think the game on the whole is actually somewhat balanced — but I also think it’s balanced in an unhealthy way. For example double ranged can burn down bruiser specs very easily and offer excellent conquest potential, but it gets hard countered by Thieves (particularly S/x where you can’t just point blank shatter). However if Thieves were a non-factor I think double ranged would honestly be much too strong. I have no real issue with Engineers whether or not they crate on double ranged, for example, and they’re supposed to rule the sidepoints game (the only real hiccup is slick shoes). So the class is viable in a sense but not in a good or a sustaining way.

I feel as though the game was better balanced in the past, when there were other counters to ledgers than just Thieves abusing excessive amounts of ports and gamey LoSing (for example, our very own unnerfed Focus, which was great for warding off HGH Engineers). Right now the game can be said to be in a sort of equilibrium but the only real counter to a Thief training your Mesmer is to bring another Thief. It’s very silly and it’s what’s hurting our class and its popularity on teams.

I agree D/P is the easiest to beat., but if you’re finding Thieves to be predictable, you’re not fighting good enough Thieves. In a pure 1v1, s/x gs with shatter reset can do alright, but in a team setting, Thieves will just hunt you, or at least prevent you from doing your job using less cds than you use. I agree Thief stolen abilities need to be nerfed. The Devs have brought it up but put it on the back burner I think. I agree that GS/Staff might be too strong if Thieves weren’t in the game, but Thieves are in the game, and they restrict every other power class. I agree that in the past there was healthier balance than now. I also agree that it is fairly balanced now (other than specs surrounding celestial amulet) and that devs have continuously taken arguably wrong approaches. You’ve always needed a Thief to counter other Thieves.

Supcutie.2538:

if you’re finding Thieves to be predictable, you’re not fighting good enough Thieves.

^

To clarify, what I mean by predictable is strictly the stealth use. Feathers are 3 seconds, #5 → #2 is 3 seconds per use, sometimes 4 if they’re playing the 15 SA setup. The spanner in the works is Shadow Refuge (which I will grant is truly unpredictable). There’s little you can do vs a Shadow Refuge reset other than just make distance or chain defensive cooldowns. They could bow immobilize right away, camp stealth for a good twenty seconds, you can try to predict but it’s really a total lottery of the type Hans was describing. So in this specific instance I do agree it’s just random.

Right but they can spam stealth. So it’s a repeating guessing game where you can try to guess, but you’re forced to do a lot more guessing than they are.

Supcutie.2538:

Right but they can spam stealth. So it’s a repeating guessing game where you can try to guess, but you’re forced to do a lot more guessing than they are.

And they can break stealth before the maximum duration is up. They have complete choice in when to engage, and predictability is going to be a quality inherent to an unskilled thief only.

Fay.2357:

Supcutie.2538:

Right but they can spam stealth. So it’s a repeating guessing game where you can try to guess, but you’re forced to do a lot more guessing than they are.

And they can break stealth before the maximum duration is up. They have complete choice in when to engage, and predictability is going to be a quality inherent to an unskilled thief only.

The one thing you can be sure of is that they are going to reveal, and going to come within melee range of you at some point. That’s huge, but only if you’ve got something ready and waiting you can use on them.