Guild Wars 2

Question is simple, if I go for a mainly "ranged’ (greatsword) build, am I gimping myself?

Are mesmers meant for up close and dirty melee fights?

It feels contrary to how I want to play the class…like I am using a screwdriver like a hammer.

I actually started out using GS Staff. Depends on the type of battles your looking for. If yer a little zergling and don’t handle your controls well and wanna hang in back sure go for it. Go high power 100 plus crit damage drop your feed back bubble on enemy zerg and send in your Izerker. I used The Damage increase on mantras as well so I hit for very high numbers. Although Staff applies conditions it really shines as a high power high crit weapon. It’s phantasm can hit for 8k.

Nope, didn’t want to zerg. Small groups—roaming.
lol..wrong class for that?

I mostly play as range, staying as far away as possible. Greatsword works great for that. You also have Scepter and Pistol for a little more range, though scepter is more of a medium weapon. You also have the Staff but i find that it works best when in close/medium range.

No u are not wrong. Mesmer shooting ability is fantastic coz u can;t be blocked by enemy anti projectile like Feedback or Wall of reflection. Sure the damage is lower compared Ranger or Rifle WA but in term of Flexibility and fast reaction GS Mesmer is good at range.

U just need the 2nd weapon set to cover ur GS Weakness which is “Very bad at melee range” It’s normal coz every enemy will try to melee u assume they know how GS Mesmer works. When “Here come the melee” Situation comes. Weapon swap is 1of the choice to do.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Nope, didn’t want to zerg. Small groups—roaming.
lol..wrong class for that?

The Mesmer is an excellent roamer and one of the very few classes that can roflstomp berserker Thieves.

Personally, I prefer all ranged on my Mesmer. Melee isnt bad, quite the contrary its very fun. But I only find it effective for spamming 1 in zergs and using 2 when enemy zergs roll all over you. When roaming, swapping from say the staff to a sword generally result in one of two things: either you get a decent stun-damage combo in over the next second or two or you completely loose all pressure for 9 seconds. Sure a Mesmer could stand toe to toe with a Warrior in melee range, but by class design you need to dodge and move around outside melee range.

The answer to OP is no. Mesmer playstyle is very versatile across all ranges.

soory with teh engrish, not make gud talk but wnat to help maybe how you say septis make rnage help you for kick teh poop in teh pants more

Keep in mind that this is WvW, not PvE. PvP is different from PvE. You should absolutely not be ranging in PvE except where necessary, or where you can reasonably get away with it, i.e. Akitteng Shatterer or something.

showcat.9821:

soory with teh engrish, not make gud talk but wnat to help maybe how you say septis make rnage help you for kick teh poop in teh pants more

This.

showcat.9821:

soory with teh engrish, not make gud talk but wnat to help maybe how you say septis make rnage help you for kick teh poop in teh pants more

Hey, our 4 numbers are almost the same :D.

Also, why is it that, when I look in your post history, your messages in the past used nearly flawless english?

I try to play primarily from range in WvW, and I really like the greatsword.

This is the build I use: http://bit.ly/14SIa7E

Other classes will want to close the distance, so stealth is very helpful for getting back to the range you want.

I go Scepter/Torch GS build. Look in the Apex Predator build and you will see. on Page 3 or something of Mesmer Forums. Reason I love range:

GS does insane damage and control. 1 knockback and cripple. This allows for me to drive my enemy away from me when needed, and also to bring them closer to me by tempting them to use Blurred Frenzy on me by staying in GS longer. Then I just have to dodge the chain, stealth, and swap to scepter for crazy condition and power DPS attacks. This is why I run all ranged weapon builds. They are OP. This is just my opinion of course. You can run sword MH if you want the 2 seconds of invul and potential gap closer for iLeap. Also the immobile, but they are all easy to dodge with blink

I came to the mistaken conclusion because so many pvp videos, Ossicat builds…none had greatsword.

Thank you for the suggestions everyone

definitely man. Go ahead. Im in game right now.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Question is simple, if I go for a mainly "ranged’ (greatsword) build, am I gimping myself?

Are mesmers meant for up close and dirty melee fights?

It feels contrary to how I want to play the class…like I am using a screwdriver like a hammer.

Mesmers can play ranged pretty effectively, as well as getting up close and personal. Fortunately, you can do both in the same build.

Greatsword is a fantastic weapon for wvw fighting. It allows you to have strong power damage from long range. There’s a number of different builds you can use though, and your best choice will depend on what type of fighting you would like to do.

You mentioned that you want to run small groups and roaming. Greatsword is a strong choice for small group play. In roaming situations though, it’ll be a bit less optimal. The reason for this is greatsword has strong offense, but limited options for defense. The greatsword really excels when you can stay a little bit out of the fight and just let your phantasms and ranged damage tear people apart. In a small fight, you’ll also probably want to have a sword/focus as your swapped set. This allows you to have aoe disruption as well as retaining the ability to skirmish well.

Once you drop your small group and go solo roaming, you’ll want to change your setup a little bit. You have a few options for solo roaming. You could toss on a staff for the strongest defense option, or you could go more for a high offense build that I prefer: sword/pistol +scepter/sword. Either way, you’ll lose some group fight ability, but drastically increase your 1v1 effectiveness.

The traits I recommend are either 10/30/0/30/0 or 20/20/0/30/0. Both of these options are phantasm specs and will do well. The 10/30 build is more optimized for the roaming route, and the 20/20 is more optimized for the greatsword and small group fights.

When I was recording random running in WvW, I got an excellent view of how Mesmer melee can be pretty kitten poor. In the clip below I am greatstaff built while the enemy Mesmer have sword/torch and staff. Its so easy to spot the mistakes made and how the enemy lack overall pressure. The first attempt at blurred frenzy is dodged, the second is evaded by staff 2. I have no idea what armor he have but I have about 3K ^^.

(but granted, it was a rather weak attempt IMO)

When I was recording random running in WvW, I got an excellent view of how Mesmer melee can be pretty kitten poor. In the clip below I am greatstaff built while the enemy Mesmer have sword/torch and staff. Its so easy to spot the mistakes made and how the enemy lack overall pressure. The first attempt at blurred frenzy is dodged, the second is evaded by staff 2. I have no idea what armor he have but I have about 3K ^^.

(but granted, it was a rather weak attempt IMO)

To master mesmer you must know when to stay close and when to back off.
Mesmer is for a big part about movement, mostly because almost every weapon mesmer got, has a ranged and close combat aspect. Know when and how to use those skills and you’ll be a great player.

However, this does not mean you can’t kill by staying ranged only. Full dps shatter with greatsword/staff can be really strong.

If it weren’t for blurred frenzy I’m not really sure how worth taking sword would be in PvP/WvW.

colesy.8490:

If it weren’t for blurred frenzy I’m not really sure how worth taking sword would be in PvP/WvW.

iLeap has its uses in PvP/WvW. It makes for an excellent mix-up if you avoid using the teleport right away, as well as good at closing distances. Also, boon-ripping clone. I would take sword over scepter in a variety of situations any day.

Pyroatheist.9031:

EnderzShadow.2506:

Question is simple, if I go for a mainly "ranged’ (greatsword) build, am I gimping myself?

Are mesmers meant for up close and dirty melee fights?

It feels contrary to how I want to play the class…like I am using a screwdriver like a hammer.

Mesmers can play ranged pretty effectively, as well as getting up close and personal. Fortunately, you can do both in the same build.

Greatsword is a fantastic weapon for wvw fighting. It allows you to have strong power damage from long range. There’s a number of different builds you can use though, and your best choice will depend on what type of fighting you would like to do.

You mentioned that you want to run small groups and roaming. Greatsword is a strong choice for small group play. In roaming situations though, it’ll be a bit less optimal. The reason for this is greatsword has strong offense, but limited options for defense. The greatsword really excels when you can stay a little bit out of the fight and just let your phantasms and ranged damage tear people apart. In a small fight, you’ll also probably want to have a sword/focus as your swapped set. This allows you to have aoe disruption as well as retaining the ability to skirmish well.

Once you drop your small group and go solo roaming, you’ll want to change your setup a little bit. You have a few options for solo roaming. You could toss on a staff for the strongest defense option, or you could go more for a high offense build that I prefer: sword/pistol +scepter/sword. Either way, you’ll lose some group fight ability, but drastically increase your 1v1 effectiveness.

The traits I recommend are either 10/30/0/30/0 or 20/20/0/30/0. Both of these options are phantasm specs and will do well. The 10/30 build is more optimized for the roaming route, and the 20/20 is more optimized for the greatsword and small group fights.

First I want to say, what a great community and thank you for the replies.

Because of the build that was mentioned by seventh and an ensuing conversation about the Blackwater build that included you (Pyro) and a few others in another thread, I decided to try it out.

The build being 20/20/30/0/0
Scepter/Torch Staff
Rabid Gear with Runes of Perplexity

The gear I have isn’t all exotic, just playing in green gear, rare weapons and exotic runes to get a feel for how the build plays before I commit to buying expensive gear.

The first thing I notice, is the feeling that I have repeatedly had anytime I take a condition build,

….how do I say this, they feel like ‘counterpunching’. They don’t feel very offensively inclined. They are not aggressive. My first reaction is to go after people. My natural inclination is to not not go after people halfheartedly, drop a couple clones and “react” by blocking or interrupting ….bleh.

I want to go after them, put a boot in their @$$, and then run/stealth/kite, to be able to reopen on them. Or stun them and reopen. (almost sounds like a thief)

And here is where I feel conflicted…. please correct me if I am wrong. But condi builds can set it and forget it—-and that makes for a little extra time, and not having to constantly focus on burning their target down, they can play more creatively and help the group.

And just the opposite with the Power builds, they need to focus on that one person, and if they let off to help a team mate , then they have just effectively wasted their build and the time they put into taking out their opponent.

Would love to hear your opinion on this Pyro as well as anyone else who wants to chip in.

EnderzShadow.2506:

And just the opposite with the Power builds, they need to focus on that one person, and if they let off to help a team mate , then they have just effectively wasted their build and the time they put into taking out their opponent.

Well you could easily argue that the condition builds have “wasted” their build if the opponent has condition removal. Pretty much the same thing.

But I agree with you on the riposte style of play that condition builds have. I dont like them either, I find them boring – especially for the Mesmer, given how random condition application is.

EnderzShadow.2506:

First I want to say, what a great community and thank you for the replies.

Because of the build that was mentioned by seventh and an ensuing conversation about the Blackwater build that included you (Pyro) and a few others in another thread, I decided to try it out.

The build being 20/20/30/0/0
Scepter/Torch Staff
Rabid Gear with Runes of Perplexity

The gear I have isn’t all exotic, just playing in green gear, rare weapons and exotic runes to get a feel for how the build plays before I commit to buying expensive gear.

The first thing I notice, is the feeling that I have repeatedly had anytime I take a condition build,

….how do I say this, they feel like ‘counterpunching’. They don’t feel very offensively inclined. They are not aggressive. My first reaction is to go after people. My natural inclination is to not not go after people halfheartedly, drop a couple clones and “react” by blocking or interrupting ….bleh.

I want to go after them, put a boot in their @$$, and then run/stealth/kite, to be able to reopen on them. Or stun them and reopen. (almost sounds like a thief)

And here is where I feel conflicted…. please correct me if I am wrong. But condi builds can set it and forget it—-and that makes for a little extra time, and not having to constantly focus on burning their target down, they can play more creatively and help the group.

And just the opposite with the Power builds, they need to focus on that one person, and if they let off to help a team mate , then they have just effectively wasted their build and the time they put into taking out their opponent.

Would love to hear your opinion on this Pyro as well as anyone else who wants to chip in.

Mesmer condition builds in particular, more so than any other class, really do rely on the countering style of play. A lot of your condition pressure revolves around either your clones dying or landing the torment block. It’s definitely not very easy to actually chase someone down in a mesmer condition build.

So instead, you have to play it in such a way that people chase YOU down. I personally like to go zerg tickling, or do a lot of roaming in the ruins, where people are actively trying to kill you. In this situation, you don’t have to worry about getting someone to attack you, that’s already taken care of. Those situations allow you to really maximize the use of the mesmer condition builds.

Your impression of ‘set it and forget it’ for condie builds is pretty incorrect though. The closest any builds comes to that is probably either a phantasm build or a ranger beastmaster build, but not really. You can’t really just load someone up on conditions and hope they die, you have to continually reapply the conditions, keep the pressure up, etc.

Similarly with power builds, focusing on one person then letting up to go help a teammate isn’t wasting their time, it’s simply changing focus. In the greatsword phantasm build, you have a lot of aoe pressure, and that allows you to spread out your focus without really trying too much. In the more offensive version, you have 2 high damaging phantasms, and that allows you to either concentrate both on 1 target, or split your focus between 2 easily and effectively.

I guess I’m just a little unsure of why you think changing targets results in a waste of the time and effort you’ve put in. It’s not like your previous target is able to instantly pop back up to full combat effectiveness. If you took chunks out of their hp, they’re either forced to back off and heal, burn cooldowns, or enter into a fight while severely vulnerable.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Mesmer condition builds in particular, more so than any other class, really do rely on the countering style of play. A lot of your condition pressure revolves around either your clones dying or landing the torment block. It’s definitely not very easy to actually chase someone down in a mesmer condition build.

So instead, you have to play it in such a way that people chase YOU down. I personally like to go zerg tickling, or do a lot of roaming in the ruins, where people are actively trying to kill you. In this situation, you don’t have to worry about getting someone to attack you, that’s already taken care of. Those situations allow you to really maximize the use of the mesmer condition builds.

Your impression of ‘set it and forget it’ for condie builds is pretty incorrect though. The closest any builds comes to that is probably either a phantasm build or a ranger beastmaster build, but not really. You can’t really just load someone up on conditions and hope they die, you have to continually reapply the conditions, keep the pressure up, etc.

Similarly with power builds, focusing on one person then letting up to go help a teammate isn’t wasting their time, it’s simply changing focus. In the greatsword phantasm build, you have a lot of aoe pressure, and that allows you to spread out your focus without really trying too much. In the more offensive version, you have 2 high damaging phantasms, and that allows you to either concentrate both on 1 target, or split your focus between 2 easily and effectively.

I guess I’m just a little unsure of why you think changing targets results in a waste of the time and effort you’ve put in. It’s not like your previous target is able to instantly pop back up to full combat effectiveness. If you took chunks out of their hp, they’re either forced to back off and heal, burn cooldowns, or enter into a fight while severely vulnerable.

^That’s true. I guess I said that because I’ve seen not just in this mmo but in others, where if you lay off of someone, takes no time at all and they are back up to full health, just as big a threat as they were when they started. But you’re right, at the very least they are either putting themselves at a disadvantage fighting you or entering the fight after burning cooldowns.

Dawdler.8521:

EnderzShadow.2506:

And just the opposite with the Power builds, they need to focus on that one person, and if they let off to help a team mate , then they have just effectively wasted their build and the time they put into taking out their opponent.

Well you could easily argue that the condition builds have “wasted” their build if the opponent has condition removal. Pretty much the same thing.

But I agree with you on the riposte style of play that condition builds have. I dont like them either, I find them boring – especially for the Mesmer, given how random condition application is.

What kind of build do you like to play?

Is it something like Pyro mentioned, GS with Phantasms?

Currently I run a 20/30/20/0/0 greatstaff build for both WvW roaming and zerging. ~40% crit chance, ~60% crit damage, ~3000 armor (mix of soldiers, knights and cavalier). Traveller runes for +25% runspeed. I dont put any traits into phantasms specifically (well, actually I use fury so that’s not quite true), I just focus on raw weapons and illusion traiting. It probably share more things with a shatter build than phantasm. I do find it incredibly fun and it can be intense at times. Its great for getting through to dps backliners.

As Pyro says its easy to spread out, sort of speak. Toss a chaos storm to left, a berserker to the right, plop down feedback in the middle and you have a wide area of damage. You cant focus on everything any more than a condition build. The major difference is that once you do switch focus… You can knock 50% off their HP in a second. Condition melee builds cant [unless the enemy is an idiot].

I think GS is great in WvW for power builds. It’s one of the few tools we have to consistently chase down a foe. There are other options, yes, but it’s very easy to throw down a iZerker at 1200m for cripple, or force the foe into combat with a GS auto-attack (which can hit at more than 1200m).

Once you close the gap you can switch to sword/focus for a sword-3 immobilize or a focus pull.

In zergs the GS is excellent for getting tags on things like dolyaks, sentries, squirrels, etc. Best weapon for long-range, single target tags.

Finally you have GS-5 for knock-back (thief from sanctuary, anyone trying to stomp your teammate without stability, etc).

Just remember to swap to your other weapon set once you’re engaged in melee — the DPS of the GS auto-attack drops by 42% from full range to melee range.

@Dawdler
I sucked it up and bought most of the gear for the Blackwater Build and played it extensively last night, strictly solo getting into 1v1’s and taking camps.

There are a lot of things I like about it,
-Put out a ton of clones
-Easy to get lost in the mix
-Alot of stealth options keeps me alive because I’m not targeted often
-I was able to elude and frustrate my opponents with ease.

Juno, its funny you mention chasing down a foe in the same breath as GS Izerker.

Because thats one of the things I don’t like about the condi build.
1- Having people run from me and having a tough time catching them

and 2- Getting destroyed by high power specs. Last night had serious trouble vs a GS Mesmer with phantasm…..because I “couldn’t” get away from him. The amount he put out vs my weak gear—-and condi damage made for a one sided fight.

Now I am curious if its possible to take the stealth + torch/scepter with a GS and make it work lol

EnderzShadow.2506:

@Dawdler
1- Having people run from me and having a tough time catching them

and 2- Getting destroyed by high power specs. Last night had serious trouble vs a GS Mesmer with phantasm…..because I “couldn’t” get away from him. The amount he put out vs my weak gear—-and condi damage made for a one sided fight.

Which is exactly the reason why I eventually gave up with sword/focus in WvW and swapped it for a greatsword. Melee is good fun but people run away so often its not even funny. I mean we’re not talking the occasional enemy, they will always seem to be running away one way or another. The greatsword give you a chance to kill them, plain and simple. Neither the scepter or sword can do it. In the end I just couldnt take it anymore and adapted my playstyle around loosing reflective focus (pack more direct damage) and temporal curtain (first centaur runes/mantra healing, later traveler runes). The only thing I miss is the evade on sword 2.

I want to eventually try a gs build again. But for now, I spent too much money to at least not learn the build and see how it goes.

I guess you could say I am vested.

And what I run doesn’t use any sword or melee. It’s not hard per se or even difficult but it is not very self explanatory.

But hey, that’s why I got you Vets for

/special thanks for in game help Pyro