Guild Wars 2

Anyone else think that we need a tad bit more access to Retaliation? Its on ONE weapon which isnt that great but even worse is the skill that it is on, that being the iMage. I think it would be nice to maybe have access to it via a trait or something as well

Asura racial skill, and I think if you combo a light field with a phantasmal warden you get long retaliation?

Well…. there’s some sort of combo that can give you ret anyway, I can’t remember it exactly.

What if you aren’t a Asura?
what if you dont use Focus?
What if you dont use Veil?

90second cool down on Veil is very steep to get Retal. Though the skill it self is pretty meh overall. Decent for stealthing into zergs but thats about it.

It would be nice if Maybe when your clones get Retal you got it as well, of course on some sort of cool down but i think we need something.

Temporal Curtain?

The problem with that is the fact that Warden isnt ground target-able, so that kind of makes it hard to place it exactly right. Then you get the fact you have to be hit by the out going light wave things to get Retal

It would be nice if we could get Retal without the need for RNG or using a non-ground targetable Phantasm and TC or Veil none of these are really that effective – Chaos Storm being the best but still…RNG.

Sword/focus – temporal curtain and sword 3 leap combo will give you ~15 secs of retal.

That’s one way anyway, between that and retal on the confusion shatter gives you permanent retal access (credit to Pyro for teaching me that).

Edit – you have to stand on the curtain. Also, warden won’t give retal, it’s a whirl combo finisher. It’ll cleanse conditions in a light field.

Retaliation is available in massive amounts to Mesmer, more so than any other class including guardians.

The adept major trait in illusions ‘confusing cry’ provides 5 seconds of retaliation per illusion shattered when using cry of frustration. With a bit of boon duration, this alone can provide 100% uptime.

Using illusionary leap and illusionary swap on top of temporal curtain can provide about 14 seconds of retaliation. With a bit of boon duration, this alone can provide nearly 100% uptime.

Chaos storm provides usually about 10 seconds of retaliation.

Using phase retreat after leap/swap provides another 7 or so seconds.

Between all of these ways, if you aren’t able to keep 100% uptime, you’re doing it wrong.

As an aside, the warden whirl combo on the temporal curtain light field is ‘cleansing bolts.’ These remove conditions, they don’t apply retaliation. Only blast and leap finishers apply retaliation.

kitten , I knew there was something that interacted with curtain, I just had completely the wrong skill required to do so in my head.

i think retal access for a mesmer is fine atm.. what we need is more stability and also more stunbreakers and condition cleansers with smalle cooldown. mantras are ok, but in wvw im having a hard time to use them if not speced into mantras.

OP: what are you talking about? Have u tried Retaliatory Shield trait in Dueling? That alone can make Guardian jealous.

Yeah between retal on block and retal on cof you should have no issues keeping it up at all. It’d be nice to have some aoe retal without having to run our kittenty signet, but you can’t have it all I guess. I’d kill for stability worth a kitten though…. even if it meant losing an elite for a transform that gives stability.

Thanks for the tips, will give them a try.
How does the Retal on Block work? I mean we have no shield or anything or is it from Scepter and sword skills?

CoF is rubbish, even in my shatter build i rarely use it plus it has quite a long cool down even with a Shatter build and the 30% cool down reduction.

Problem with iLeap onto curtain – You cant always do it, a target has to be on/near the certain for you to actually get the retal. Not every fight can work out so easily

Chaos Storm one is RNG. Nothing more really needs to be said about that.

Again, Phase retreat requires the first part of the iLeap to have be done perfectly, onto a target the other side of a curtain before it can be done. Can you iLeap back through a curtain for it?

So, other then the CoF trait none of them are guaranteed and take some time to perfect managing to get it right. So while its possible its not really that great of a method to gain it having to use not 1 but 2 and even some times 3 skills just to gain retal…

@ArmageddonAsh:
scepter #2, sword #4, and aegis are blocks to proc Retaliatory Shield.
If you use scepter + OH sword (traited), each block skill will have 12s CD. With +100% boon duration, you will have 6s of retaliation when u block, that means you can chain your two blocks to get 100% retaliation uptime already. On top of that, you have Prismatic Understanding, Signet of Inspiration, Chaos Storm for more retal sources.

PS: I agree with you that CoF needs some buff.

Are you serious? Actually i think our retalation is op , with confusión cry and cry of frustration i got 19.5 seconds of retalation with 25 sec cd without need especial gear

Yeah been testing out the shield one, its like 3 seconds.

@AndresR – how have you gotten 19.5seconds? 100% boon duration? I am getting 15seconds it isnt that bad actually, normally skip it with other traits being more important. Maybe it would be over powered but it would be good if it affected ALL shatters (with a cool down of course) I am guessing you are atleast 30 Into Chaos and 20 into Illusions to get 19seconds

Might have to give it a try and see what happens

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yeah been testing out the shield one, its like 3 seconds.

@AndresR – how have you gotten 19.5seconds? 100% boon duration? I am getting 15seconds it isnt that bad actually, normally skip it with other traits being more important. Maybe it would be over powered but it would be good if it affected ALL shatters (with a cool down of course) I am guessing you are atleast 30 Into Chaos and 20 into Illusions to get 19seconds

Might have to give it a try and see what happens

15 sec base, 30 Chaos (30% boon duration increase) = 19.5 sec. No need for anything other than that for the retal.

Retaliation is good with mesmers, no need to change. As others have stated, we have ample ways to reliably acquire it on our own. You can get 30 seconds of retaliation quickly if using Confusing Cry and Sw/F together. Confusing Cry is 5s base each illusion. With 50% duration, you’re over 20 seconds already. Sw/F leap/light combo gives almost double that. I do this with my paladin 2.0 might stacking build and typically am sharing about 30s retaliation each SoI pop (see signature link).

Throw retaliatory shield in there (overkill, but if you want …) and if using iMage you have that source, Chaos Storm, etc.

The problems i see

Light Field Leap, isnt exactly easy to get right. especially in the heat of battle. The shield one isnt to bad though and neither is iMage, when it works it seems to be very iffy on how it wants to bounce.

Though i am liking CoF with it though, a solid amount of time that is ALOT more reliable then the Light Leap

Reta applied by Confusing Cry should be moved to Mind Wrack instead of Cry of Frustration, would make this trait worth running in every power based shatter build

I’ve never personally had an issue proc’ing retal from the light/leap combo. I suppose it just takes a bit of practice? Also you can proc it after you destroy the curtain – the field isn’t visible but you can still leap where the field was and get the retal, assuming the normal Into the Void skill CD. Not sure if this is a bug but it works and I use that all the time.

I run retal on block and never have a problem keeping it on me most fights. I run staff and scepter/torch (traited). This gives me block on scepter plus plenty of aegis (staff and PU). I run a condition tank build and it’s mostly an added bonus to see those retal hits. I used to have more of it when chaos armor provided it instead of the swiftness it now gives.

Why does mesmer need retaliation?

Stormbringer.5867:

Why does mesmer need retaliation?

IMO, free damage is good damage.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problems i see

Light Field Leap, isnt exactly easy to get right. especially in the heat of battle. The shield one isnt to bad though and neither is iMage, when it works it seems to be very iffy on how it wants to bounce.

Though i am liking CoF with it though, a solid amount of time that is ALOT more reliable then the Light Leap

Once you practice more with the focus you’ll have a better time with retaliation. As others have stated, we have the most access to retaliation of any class in the game if we take the appropriate skills and are adept with using combo finishers.

For retaliatory shield, don’t forget mimic in the equation. 4s of block isn’t anything to scoff at

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problems i see

Light Field Leap, isnt exactly easy to get right. especially in the heat of battle. The shield one isnt to bad though and neither is iMage, when it works it seems to be very iffy on how it wants to bounce.

Though i am liking CoF with it though, a solid amount of time that is ALOT more reliable then the Light Leap

Cast the curtain in melee range. Use ileap while you’re ontop of it.

Retal on block works pretty good with Chaos Storm. The aegis procs will give retal in addition to the retaliation the storm gives… But tbh I never liked that trait. I think it works with Mimic too to really good effect.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Reta applied by Confusing Cry should be moved to Mind Wrack instead of Cry of Frustration, would make this trait worth running in every power based shatter build

That’s the entire point of the trait, it causes Cry of Frustration to scale with Power. Not that it’s very potent. It would be better if they did someing like:

Cry of Frustration: Inflicts Confusion & Torment.
-This skill is innately weak without Illusionary Retribution to DOUBLE it’s effectiveness, adding Torment fits the skill’s theme and makes it more competitive.

Confusing Cry: Remove it. Replace it with a trait that causes Diversion to inflict Weakness.

Illusionary Retribution (5pt Minor): Mind Wrack now inflicts Confusion and CoF grants Retaliation.
-Now the introductory Trait in the tree that focuses on Shattering is more synergistic. It makes Mind Wrack scale with Condition builds and makes CoF scale with power builds.