Guild Wars 2

I waited since June 23rd to play this bugged trait, just to have it’s bleed stacks cut in half before I could even play it, why? This is even worse than MtD, atleast I got to play that trait for a whopping 3 hours before you cut the condi stacks in half as well. Bleed is the 3rd lowest base damage at level 80, getting beat out by passive confusion base damage which is 10, and passive torment tick, which is 15.9, I mean hell even poison has higher base damage. There is no justification as to why this should have been changed. Revert it.

Tldr: I waited over 3 months for a bug fix, log on to have it nerfed instead for no reason, even if you have a reason which I doubt, it’s probably just target golem balancing just like mtd. Thanks for the balance gentlemen, and thanks for being upfront with your community.

Edited for math. Here is a test between Phantasmal Fury and Duelists Discipline with Rabid Amulet, which is kitten chance to crit. It should also be noted that the choice of amulet to test with the duelists discipline trait is irrelevant based on the fact that it has its own critical chance which is not influenced by player critical chance.

“Each number is for total amount of bleeds stacked per unload for you slow people”. Each comparison was 15 unloads total between each.

Rabid Amulet With Duelist Trait Equipped

7
3
5
8
5 =28

8
6
4
7
5 =30

9
7
4
11
4 = 35

Total bleeds = 93

Rabid Amulet With Fury

6
6
6
7
5 = 30

5
6
5
3
4 = 23

7
6
4
6
5 = 28

Total = 81 Which = 12 bleed difference over the span of 15 unloads

Conclusion, there is little to no difference between the application of bleed between fury and duelists. Not to mention this is on a target standing still. You can’t even justify the nerf even with your target golem balancing. I rest my case. #dropsmic

Countless

It was nerfed because otherwise bleed stacking with iDuelist would be ridiculously strong with the potential for 3 stacks of bleeding on crit, x8 for each shot from the duelist. As it stands now, you can get up to 16 stacks of bleeding per duelist vs 24. I think that’s fair.

Capricorn XI.4390:

It was nerfed because otherwise bleed stacking with iDuelist would be ridiculously strong with the potential for 3 stacks of bleeding on crit, x8 for each shot from the duelist. As it stands now, you can get up to 16 stacks of bleeding per duelist vs 24. I think that’s fair.

Please refer to my edited top post, which leads to the end of your failed argument.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Capricorn XI.4390:

It was nerfed because otherwise bleed stacking with iDuelist would be ridiculously strong with the potential for 3 stacks of bleeding on crit, x8 for each shot from the duelist. As it stands now, you can get up to 16 stacks of bleeding per duelist vs 24. I think that’s fair.

Please refer to my edited top post, which leads to the end of your failed argument.

Countless

Those are the same lines Countless uses to woo the ladies. He’s a classic man.

Capricorn XI.4390:

It was nerfed because otherwise bleed stacking with iDuelist would be ridiculously strong with the potential for 3 stacks of bleeding on crit, x8 for each shot from the duelist. As it stands now, you can get up to 16 stacks of bleeding per duelist vs 24. I think that’s fair.

Evaluating it by the maximum possibility is ridiculously poor math.
There’s a 33% chance on that for a reason, and you have to balance on the expected value, not the “maximum possible” value.
The probability of getting a full 8 stacks from DD is all of 0.01%, or 1 in 10,000.
Sharper images fares a little better, with a 0.62% chance, or 62 in 10,000 (on a full Rabid build).

The average stacks from a single iDuelist volley will be (8*.33) + (8*.53)=6.88 stacks, or about 7 stacks on a volley.
With the original 2 stacks, iDuelist would have been giving (8*.33*2) + (8*.53)=9.52 stacks on a volley.

That is indeed a lot of expected stacks, though considering all the caveats, it’s not as much as you’d think:
1. Getting multiple iDuelists is an extended process. Compare to Engineer, Guardian and Ele condi application, which drops the bulk of their load in the first few seconds.
2. Mathematically, 1 stack of burn is roughly worth 3 stacks of bleed (2.5 at very, very high condition damage). Blowtorch, on engineer, applies 3 stacks in an aoe, which means it’s worth about 9 stacks of bleed, and is aoe. Engineer has a lot of condi applications like that.

Having done the dps math, I will say that the potential dps from 2 stacks was very high, perhaps too high. But your reasoning on that is very, very suspect.

Its just crazy how OP burning is right now AND how prevalent it is. Its just nutz!

And they’re concerned about a broken bleeding trait being fixed..

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

So what are the differences?

Pros

• If I take Duelists discipline I get the pistol recharge on my pistol when interrupting, while not loosing the benefits of bleeds from dropping Phant Fury, though I lose the bonus crit power damage phant fury would provide. Wait, is this a pro or a con -_-u

Cons

• I lose phant fury for my weapon swap phantasm(such as iZerker) aswell as the power aspect of my iDuelist

So ahhh, I think I’ll just stick with Phant Fury because it’s solid, reliable, and I always have its benefit.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

obviously not the golems or Svanir/Utahein that the devs seem to balance off of

Going to test it later but I can see myself replacing it with phantasmal fury, the nerf to DD is absolutely obscure. You have a fragile iDuelist that can be cleave out by most attacks and have 33% chance on crit (which normally is 50%) to proc only 1 bleed for 5s. I think we just won the title of having one of the most unreliable plus unrewarding condi proc trait in the game.

Heck I think sharper image does better job than this trait if not for the interrupt lol.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

You have a fragile iDuelist that can be cleave out by most attacks and have 33% chance on crit (which normally is 50%) to proc only 1 bleed for 5s.

DD is a 33% chance on hit.

For kitten’s sake, people, if you’re going to complain about the trait get your kittening facts right.

You’re right, I get to see it in more detail after I get into the game xD. Had a couple of rounds with it and I have to say……meh? Not enough condi pressure for sure.

I am not sure how you guys play.. But when i use x/pistol greatsword.. ill use my skills and swap to the next weapon to have cooldowns fresh.. then swap back.

in what situation are you sitting in x/pistol long enough to interupt 2x and get your pistol cooldowns back up without it being a huge dps/control loss in a fight.

by the time you swap to sword and swap back the pistol skills are off cooldown 100%.

the only way i can see this being used is if you play non crit.. x/pistol staff. and pistol will still take a hit from the lack of crits.

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

zaxon.6819:

I am not sure how you guys play.. But when i use x/pistol greatsword.. ill use my skills and swap to the next weapon to have cooldowns fresh.. then swap back.

in what situation are you sitting in x/pistol long enough to interupt 2x and get your pistol cooldowns back up without it being a huge dps/control loss in a fight.

by the time you swap to sword and swap back the pistol skills are off cooldown 100%.

the only way i can see this being used is if you play non crit.. x/pistol staff. and pistol will still take a hit from the lack of crits.

They’re still in denial…

Many Mesmers were holding out for this trait hoping it would push condi/hybrid mesmer into being not completely terrible… the truth hasnt settled in yet.

Edit: The primary issue with this trait is it being in competition with Phantasmal fury…
DD you’ll get about one extra bleed over phantasmal fury on average, but the physical damage you gain from PF (more than) makes up for it. Then when you consider that PF affects ALL of your phantasms… the extra crit rate from PF pulls way ahead in both physical and bleed potential.

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

kitten off and kittenpost somewhere else, you kittening troll.

tobascodagama.2961:

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

kitten off and kittenpost somewhere else, you kittening troll.

I am speaking the truth though.. Feel free to argue.. For some reason, your quote to Chaos disappeared.

I do wonder why it was this trait was nerfed. Its not like anyone complained that it was OP, or that it was OP without anyone complaining.

looks at the dropped mic with dismal disposition

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

kitten off and kittenpost somewhere else, you kittening troll.

I am speaking the truth though.. Feel free to argue.. For some reason, your quote to Chaos disappeared.

You could just kill, reflect, or retal the phantasm, two out of three of those make it kill itself.

Think of it as a LB ranger that spams Rapid Fire over and over.. you know, like a LB Ranger -_-u, only no pet and a much lower HP pool.

~Helpful :D

Well I mean bleeds are generally pretty awful in this game to begin with, so I doubt the extra bleed stack would have mattered.

Still I think it would be cool to summon Geesus from the heavens for explanation on this controversial polarizing balance decision that has forum-goers kittening eachother in writing.

nearlight.3064:

Well I mean bleeds are generally pretty awful in this game to begin with, so I doubt the extra bleed stack would have mattered.

You should apply for A-net based off that logic, you’d fit right in.

Trigr.6481:

nearlight.3064:

Well I mean bleeds are generally pretty awful in this game to begin with, so I doubt the extra bleed stack would have mattered.

You should apply for A-net based off that logic, you’d fit right in.

I should probably explain a bit better. I think that the scaling on bleeding is way too weak (and the scaling on burning is a bit too high), so I think the numbers should be adjusted to account for this. Thats what I meant when I said what I said, and I also called for developer-based explanation for the decision which sometimes happens. I’m not agreeing with the developers, I’m just saying that bleeds are so weak that it wouldn’t feel much more powerful even if the trait wasn’t nerfed into uselessness.

And lastly please don’t insult me. I actually look up to you a lot as a mesmer player and streamer because you do your own thing and don’t follow the meta, and while I understand that this upsets you, I personally find it disenheartening to be sassed by a streamer I really respect.

nearlight.3064:

Trigr.6481:

nearlight.3064:

Well I mean bleeds are generally pretty awful in this game to begin with, so I doubt the extra bleed stack would have mattered.

You should apply for A-net based off that logic, you’d fit right in.

I should probably explain a bit better. I think that the scaling on bleeding is way too weak (and the scaling on burning is a bit too high), so I think the numbers should be adjusted to account for this. Thats what I meant when I said what I said, and I also called for developer-based explanation for the decision which sometimes happens. I’m not agreeing with the developers, I’m just saying that bleeds are so weak that it wouldn’t feel much more powerful even if the trait wasn’t nerfed into uselessness.

And lastly please don’t insult me. I actually look up to you a lot as a mesmer player and streamer because you do your own thing and don’t follow the meta, and while I understand that this upsets you, I personally find it disenheartening to be sassed by a streamer I really respect.

What you don’t understand that at face value 1 bleed difference may not look like much. But in terms of overall sustain it makes a huge difference, and to sit here and read “I doubt the extra bleed stack would have mattered” didn’t go too well with me in terms of the topic at hand. I’m sorry I snapped at you, but next time please have more to bring to the table other than what you said previously.

Countless

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R3Sg;1VPV11y6BW-71;9;4STW;0038038056;4UsW4I;97W

this is my normal build.. pretty sure i just straight lose damage going DD.

tobascodagama.2961:

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

kitten off and kittenpost somewhere else, you kittening troll.

I love kittens, but please don’t call Stickerhappy a troll.

Tealots.6095:

tobascodagama.2961:

StickerHappy.8052:

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You forgot.. It’s also a stream of projectiles. Which means.. Bodyblocked, absorbed, blocked, reflected..

… Or my favorite, the humble dodge that negates 90% of the attack.

Pfft, who dodges in this game?

Yeah right, You only have to dodge the Phantasm right? You can ignore the mesmer completely right?

/end of argument.

kitten off and kittenpost somewhere else, you kittening troll.

I love kittens, but please don’t call Stickerhappy a troll.

Aww thanks tea, As tea said, I am not trolling. Ever.

You only take this trait if you want the cdr on interrupt.
Bleed is awful to start with, you probably only need a bit as a cover condition.

Given how many ppl don’t like condie mesmer(I also don’t like), it will probably never be a thing in high-end PvP. Also when druids come out, their healing wall will completely kill off your clone condie pressure from both staff and scepter.