Guild Wars 2

EasymodeX.4062:

The cooldown on Shatters is a “GCD”. Each Shatter is an ability,

An attunement is not an ability. An attunement swaps access to 5 abilities.

Hence, it’s a terrible comparison. The “GCD” stops shatters from being used. The attunement cooldown mirrors weapon swaps.

I agree with you almost completely. Eles do have a trait that creates an “ability” upon attunement. Spikes when attuning to earth, speed upon air, etc.

BUT

Eles cannot weapon swap so they can’t really benefit from those weapon swap sigils like other professions. So perhaps that’s why the attunement CDs mirror weapon swap CDs.

daesedai.3708:

EasymodeX.4062:

The cooldown on Shatters is a “GCD”. Each Shatter is an ability,

An attunement is not an ability. An attunement swaps access to 5 abilities.

Hence, it’s a terrible comparison. The “GCD” stops shatters from being used. The attunement cooldown mirrors weapon swaps.

I agree with you almost completely. Eles do have a trait that creates an “ability” upon attunement. Spikes when attuning to earth, speed upon air, etc.

BUT

Eles cannot weapon swap so they can’t really benefit from those weapon swap sigils like other professions. So perhaps that’s why the attunement CDs mirror weapon swap CDs.

Eles can use weapon swap sigils when we swicth attunements it counts as a weapon swap

Mesmer phantasam summons are blocked by blind/dodge/etc because they’re normal attacks. That’s why my duelist’s unload attack can trigger a flame sigil…. oh wait.

^

It’s not even the unload part. If parity actually existed, summoning the phantasm alone would trigger a flame sigil proc (ohwait!).

SteepledHat.1345:

Mesmer phantasam summons are blocked by blind/dodge/etc because they’re normal attacks. That’s why my duelist’s unload attack can trigger a flame sigil…. oh wait.

No one’s summons attacks trigger sigils, though, right? Not even Elementalist’s summons do. Seems like a specious argument.

And ask yourself, do you really want to make Thieves Guild any stronger?

KirinDave.6451:

SteepledHat.1345:

Mesmer phantasam summons are blocked by blind/dodge/etc because they’re normal attacks. That’s why my duelist’s unload attack can trigger a flame sigil…. oh wait.

No one’s summons attacks trigger sigils, though, right? Not even Elementalist’s summons do. Seems like a specious argument.

And ask yourself, do you really want to make Thieves Guild any stronger?

It’s not that we think phantasms should be able to proc sigils on crits,
But the fact that the dev’s allow them to be blocked at the summoning phase like tehy’re attacks, but they don’t benefit from being classified like attacks (Crit sigils, for example).

Phantasms right now hover in some weird purgatory between Attacks and Summons, they have all the negatives of both and none of the positives

EnRohbi.2187:

Phantasms right now hover in some weird purgatory between Attacks and Summons, they have all the negatives of both and none of the positives

Except some of the best damage, best AI, and lowest cooldowns of any external damage source in the game?

Have you seen Necro minions? They do what they want, when they want. Have you seen Engineer turrets? You’re lucky when they shoot. Elementalist summons seem stay on target, but they have very long cooldowns. Thieves Guild is similarly cooldown-based. And you should experience Guardian’s hammer frustration first hand. It’s like shatter-runtime frustration but even worse.

I am not saying the Mesmer class does not have bugs or room for design improvement. Every class does. I’m just saying this thread makes several other class communities fume. Memsers are so kitten strong and here ya’ll are writing a thread being upset because of something that even your community viewed as questionably balanced.

Except some of the best damage, best AI, and lowest cooldowns of any external damage source in the game?

Damage and AI components are balanced by the part where they die pretty kitten quick (if you are talking about an actual DPS build).

Numbers can be tuned one way or another. The issue is the allowing them to be defendable twice compared to once is significantly different from any other ability in the game — regular attacks or necromancer summons.

ya’ll are writing a thread being upset because of something that even your community viewed as questionably balanced.

Your summary and opinion here is a result of a deficiency of reading comprehension. The bug that was poorly balanced was the 57 Might stacks on a trait that was already balanced and didn’t need a buff. That is fine and I don’t think anyone’s really upset about that.

LOS on phantasms was also fine(-ish). There was some minor QQ but I’m pretty sure most people didn’t cry too hard on that (there was a lot more crying about the actual summon timing which happened to get borked in the same patch).

Being doubly susceptible to defense mechanisms, however, is a different topic.

Also, a GCD on shatters is asinine. Ohwell.

I’m just chiming in here to post my 2 cents on the matter. My mesmer is my main and I will NOT shelve her over a petty band-aid nerf that’s meant to stop an exploit while they figure out how to fix it. The loss of might stacks pisses me off because I was working on a rabid armor, high condition/shatter pve build. The – let’s be honest – absurd amount of might stacking was going to cover my lack of Power but now that it’s gone, I have to start from scratch. Even so, I will still main my mesmer, proudly! No other class lets me screw with people’s minds like my mesmer!

Now what I wish Anet would do is toss us an olive branch whenever they use a band-aid tactic to buy more time for fixing bugs. For tinkering with the cooldown they should revoke that stupid, “clone summoning can be blocked” fix. I’ll give them line-of-sight as even I was guilty of abusing that “feature” but the others don’t make any sense.

EasymodeX.4062:

Damage and AI components are balanced by the part where they die pretty kitten quick (if you are talking about an actual DPS build).

My experience fighting mesmers in sPvP: I lose if I bother to kill your phantasms unless I have some pretty epic aoe to drop. Maybe when I’m playing an elementalist I can, otherwise I am wasting time my opponent is using to kill me. And you can trait to make that decision deleterious if you so choose.

So I’m pretty sure we can safely say Mesmer’s clone and Phantasm mechanic is “good” in a variety of ways.

EasymodeX.4062:

The issue is the allowing them to be defendable twice compared to once is significantly different from any other ability in the game — regular attacks or necromancer summons.

The Mesmer could be summarized pretty succinctly as, “Significantly different from any other [class] in the game.” I’ve played them all now, Memser stands out as unusual in an ecosystem of unusual classes.

Is it irritating? Sure. Is it unbalanced? I’m not sure.

EasymodeX.4062:

Your summary and opinion here is a result of a deficiency of reading comprehension.

Must you?

EasymodeX.4062:

The bug that was poorly balanced was the 57 Might stacks on a trait that was already balanced and didn’t need a buff.

Perhaps your prodigious and enviable reading comprehension could briefly focus on the the might stacking rules on the wiki.

And in any case, it was obviously against the designer’s intent.

EasymodeX.4062:

Also, a GCD on shatters is asinine. Ohwell.

Fortunately for your point of view, it’s not permanent. It’s a stopgap measure until Anet can fix the underlying problem, which they seem to feel is obscure. So your dignity need not suffer forever.

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

Galrukh.6532:

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

That overpowered trait is one of very, very few buffs the class has gotten since launch, and the /only/ buff that actually made a difference.

It’s very insulting for them to finally give us a break amongst all the nerfs to everything we do, only to then take it away a few weeks later, and then hurt us even more with a gcd.

We are not complaining because we think the profession is broken so much as because we’re kitten off about the dev’s attitude towards mesmers, and we’re sick of getting worse every patch.

Galrukh.6532:

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

i know, right.

one of the best classes in the game gets a bugfix that shuts down an extremely exploitative strategy, and people cry about it. welcome to MMO forums.

EnRohbi.2187:

Galrukh.6532:

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

That overpowered trait is one of very, very few buffs the class has gotten since launch, and the /only/ buff that actually made a difference.

It’s very insulting for them to finally give us a break amongst all the nerfs to everything we do, only to then take it away a few weeks later, and then hurt us even more with a gcd.

We are not complaining because we think the profession is broken so much as because we’re kitten off about the dev’s attitude towards mesmers, and we’re sick of getting worse every patch.

I play a mesmer too so I know what its all about but I also play other classes so I have some perspective here. We have not suffered worse than most of the other classes, sure we dont get buffs, but when we got the might buff in the last patch I definately knew it wasnt meant to work that way.
15-18 stacks of might with hardly any work at all, without any real cooldown was obviously too much.

There is an OOOOOOLD story about a boy crying wolf. We all know it. If the mesmer community keeps crying FOUL! every time anything is changed/fixed/nerfed then the devs stop listening when something truly bad happens.
Reality checks and perspective guys.

Mesmer is fine and still one of the most powerful classes in the game.

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

They fixed the bug in the wrong way.

End of story.

Edit:

I don’t know why ANet buffed the might trait that way. I wonder if they confused the mechanic of boons “on shatter” with “every shattered illusion”, so they thought it would only grant a few stacks, rather than stacks per illusion. Shrug.

Either way it shows a lack of connection with the class mechanics to make such a basic error.

KirinDave.6451:

Must you?

State the truth? Well, yes, if it leads to a faster resolution of the discussion.

Like I referred to before — you are mixing Mesmers being upset at an incorrect fix or an unprecedented balance mechanic with Mesmers who accept reasonable nerfs and fixes. This is because you are reading poorly.

EasymodeX.4062:

My god what an overreaction. All they did was fixing a bug and changing an obviously overpowered trait.
I can not fathom how someone can whine over this, I just dont get it.

They fixed the bug in the wrong way.

End of story.

Edit:

I don’t know why ANet buffed the might trait that way. I wonder if they confused the mechanic of boons “on shatter” with “every shattered illusion”, so they thought it would only grant a few stacks, rather than stacks per illusion. Shrug.

Either way it shows a lack of connection with the class mechanics to make such a basic error.

I think you are right, they fumbled so what should be “when player uses shatter ability” instead became “for each illusion shattered”. I always read it as such so I was surprised when I got 9 stacks of might.
About the bug fix, its a temporary measure, I assume (always dangerous) that it will be reverted when they have fixed the underlaying structure, they said as much themselves.

RageQuit.5687:

Oh god here we go again:
– My class got changes made to it, and I can no longer get cheap wins with minimal effort. Baaaaaw…

Can’t wait for the kittenstorm if thieves ever have some tweaks done to them. GW2 will lose 90% of their player base.

Mfw even with these changes applied my friend can still 1v4 with Mesmer.
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/MFW+I+find+out+a+friend+of+mines+a+brony_d887b5_3632461.jpg

Edit: Regarding dungeons – It’s still very much viable. It’s just funny how some people would rather moan about this, than learn to adapt to the change and come up with another strategy to compensate.

To be honest… there isn’t even a need to really change the strategy to compensate. I run shatter heavy and have since I was able to get deceptive evasion. I still drop and shatter as fast as possible and run decoy/mirror images/signet of illusions (for when I need to keep phantasms up) and my play style is fine… I did however here someone whining on the sPvP forum that they want a 10-sec cool down on deceptive evasion… Which will kill my play style.

DestregA.5314:

If you havn’t been pvping on your mesmer you missed out.

It’s never been good at pve, play a warrior for that. You actually get loot.

You know why I still haven’t really played a mesmer, even though I find the actual gameplay incredibly fun? This. This right here.
And the slow movement across Tyria, but mostly this.

Ramiah.5648:

DestregA.5314:

If you havn’t been pvping on your mesmer you missed out.

It’s never been good at pve, play a warrior for that. You actually get loot.

You know why I still haven’t really played a mesmer, even though I find the actual gameplay incredibly fun? This. This right here.
And the slow movement across Tyria, but mostly this.

Exactly.

The people who didn’t even bother to read what I was saying just don’t get it.

ANet has been ham-handed and un-thoughtful with their treatment of the profession.

I’m very much a proponent of balance.

We had a bug that was causing our “truck move” to hit like a “100 megaton nuke” which came to light at the same time as a patch which gave us an arguably moderate but needed boost to our damage output in a way which can be negated by any intelligent pvp-er (clones that don’t make it to the target don’t shatter and don’t grant might!).

Instead of fixing the big one and waiting responsibly, they killed one few piece of good news they’ve ever given the profession in addition.

Coupled with the other game-breaking mechanic penalties which apply to mesmer and nobody else, the direction is clear.

Why would anyone play a profession which is so clearly marked as the red-headed step-child of ANet’s unbridled wrath?

Meanwhile, thieves can still kill 80% of profession builds in the 2 seconds before they render, and my D/D ele can, in cleric’s gear, tag up on 8 times the number of mobs as my shatter/condition hybrid mesmer can in rampager.

The hypocrisy is thick.

In the meantime, one stun breaker is enough to fool a thief burst, but against a mesmer..there is really no point in worrying if your stun breaker is up, because they’ve got a burst available every 10s, and thieves regardless of their initiative system they still rely on a 60s CD elite to do their combo.

Furthermore thieves are not invulnerable when doing their combo and there is another bug which need to be fixed by Anet staff mesmer can still use skills even if the enemy use kd on them, meaning a mesmer can use phase retreat as it’d be a stun breaker, fix it pls Anet

Lordryux.9785:

I spent 150 gold gearing my mesmer fully before the server went down how do u think i feel. time to spend more on confusion build set lets go.. or ima just quit and go back to my ele. Has way more damage way more might stacks in seconds AOE HEALS mega healing period. mega ways to get protection PERMA swiftness FTW? Perma FURY FTW?? and they call mesmers OP… sure…..

Then craft your gear, it’s ridiculous how cheap it is when you do things yourself, also use Orbs instead of Runes unless you have/want to blow your gold. (6 Ruby or Beryl Orbs are just as good as Divinity Runes. Additionally, they’re over 10x cheaper, with Beryl being 3x cheaper than Ruby, and Ruby being ~12x cheaper than Divinity.)

Arheundel.6451:

In the meantime, one stun breaker is enough to fool a thief burst, but against a mesmer..there is really no point in worrying if your stun breaker is up, because they’ve got a burst available every 10s, and thieves regardless of their initiative system they still rely on a 60s CD elite to do their combo.

Furthermore thieves are not invulnerable when doing their combo and there is another bug which need to be fixed by Anet staff mesmer can still use skills even if the enemy use kd on them, meaning a mesmer can use phase retreat as it’d be a stun breaker, fix it pls Anet

Staff2 keeps you kd, you just teleport away and it pretends like all your skills are available. You can’t actually cast anything you could cast unless it’s cast-able while kd. If you do run Staff2 to go against kd, you only get Staff4 and your utility available (assuming your utility is stunbreak).

Can somebody explain to me how Shattered Strength was OP but no other might stacking is?

Because I have been asking this since the December patch and nobody can give an answer.

go play a engineer then you have all the right in the world to complain

FreshCookies.7024:

go play a engineer then you have all the right in the world to complain

Sorry, can’t hear you over all the grenades making piles of shiny corpses out of everything in every DE the game has to offer, giving engies more rares per hour than anyone else in the game, even with the new nerfed grenade damage.

Also, thanks for the heal from the turret, it does more than the entire mesmer profession, including mantra builds.

Levetty.1279:

Can somebody explain to me how Shattered Strength was OP but no other might stacking is?

I’ll try.

Shattered Strength was one of the easiest, least time sensitive, and straightforward might stackers in-combat. If you can easily and reliably self-stack >20 might in combat without using utilities or relying on someone else’s fire fields, you have a massive advantage over every other class. Might stacking was just really easy and everyone was doing it.

Or at least my experience with most classes suggests very few ways are easier. Offhand, the only one I can think of is a 30 point Engineer trait for a kit that is terrible and people only use for 2 of its skills, and that’d let you trait to hover around 15 stacks of might pre-sigils. Most other ways involve blast finishers, which is not necessarily hard but either blows multiple utility cooldowns or requires you be out of combat to swap weapons.

I know banner warriors can do it, but they have to drop all banners and they can barely touch 17 stacks of might. Some engineer builds can hit 25 stacks but they usually use blast finishers (by detonating turrets) and have 60 points of traits decided to make that happen. Some guardians can do it but they have to rely on your actions to make it happen, and it’s a build that loses a lot of mobility. Offhand, I don’t know of anyone else who can do it.

And I suspect you’ll get buffed back to 2 stacks of might in the future. For all ANet’s talk about gradual changes to help meta stability, they get very reactionary when people start abusing a bug, and this might stacking technique was being abused by the other bug.

KirinDave.6451:

Levetty.1279:

Can somebody explain to me how Shattered Strength was OP but no other might stacking is?

Sure. Shattered Strength was one of the easiest, least time sensitive, and straightforward might stackers in the game.

And it still is. Very few ways are easier. Offhand, the only one I can think of is a 30 point Engineer trait for a kit that is terrible and people only use for 2 of its skills, and that’d let you trait to hover around 15 stacks of might pre-sigils. Most other ways involve blast finishers, which is not necessarily hard but either blows multiple utility cooldowns or requires you be out of combat to swap weapons.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword

Much easier to get high stacks and keep them up constantly. Also the hardest hitting weapon in the game.

KirinDave.6451:

Levetty.1279:

Can somebody explain to me how Shattered Strength was OP but no other might stacking is?

I’ll try.

Shattered Strength was one of the easiest, least time sensitive, and straightforward might stackers in-combat. If you can easily and reliably self-stack >20 might in combat without using utilities or relying on someone else’s fire fields, you have a massive advantage over every other class. Might stacking was just really easy and everyone was doing it.

Sorry, but…

If you can easily and reliably self-stack 20 might in combat without using utilities

If you’re self-stacking 20, you’re using utilities. The only way to sustain 10+ might was to use utilities and blow, literally, all your cooldowns.

Esplen.3940:

KirinDave.6451:

Levetty.1279:

Can somebody explain to me how Shattered Strength was OP but no other might stacking is?

I’ll try.

Shattered Strength was one of the easiest, least time sensitive, and straightforward might stackers in-combat. If you can easily and reliably self-stack >20 might in combat without using utilities or relying on someone else’s fire fields, you have a massive advantage over every other class. Might stacking was just really easy and everyone was doing it.

Sorry, but…

If you can easily and reliably self-stack 20 might in combat without using utilities

If you’re self-stacking 20, you’re using utilities. The only way to sustain 10+ might was to use utilities and blow, literally, all your cooldowns.

You could nearly hit the cap with one utility OR with one trait, right? All you had to do was feather your shatters (which the bug let you do quickly) and then get the cooldowns to reset. That could be done in the middle of a fight by noticing your hp and traiting appropriately.

But yes, I meant to edit to say the big stack comes from popping signet of illusions, so it’s one utility.

Levetty.1279:

Much easier to get high stacks and keep them up constantly. Also the hardest hitting weapon in the game.

I am not like a pro warrior but every main warrior I know says that you’d not really use that skill to stack over 20 might quickly. High might stacking was the auspice of banner warriors blowing cooldowns, and this is often used as a trick to get hundred blades and kill shot to spike absurd numbers.

And I think Rifle has better attack coefficients, doesn’t it? I’ve seen killshots break 20k.

Please do share your exalted ele build that does so much damage i would love to see it.

plasmacutter.2709:

FreshCookies.7024:

go play a engineer then you have all the right in the world to complain

Sorry, can’t hear you over all the grenades making piles of shiny corpses out of everything in every DE the game has to offer, giving engies more rares per hour than anyone else in the game, even with the new nerfed grenade damage.

Also, thanks for the heal from the turret, it does more than the entire mesmer profession, including mantra builds.

This comment, more than anything else, shows you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to other professions. You might want to read patch notes. This kit was nerfed very hard, and the only part of it that still does great damage is the toolkit ability.

And of course the fact that they’re slow, ground-targetted projectiles. I stopped using it in november, and prefer the bomb kit for DEs now just because it is a more reliable tag.

It does seem pretty incredible how full of rage you are over DEs, which are just one very, very small part of the game. If you think Engineers are great because they have DE tagging, then you should roll one and learn what true GW2 despair, class confusion, and dev neglect is. Meanwhile Mesmers are going to continue to be a core part of the WvW and PvP gameplay, and an undeniable asset to most difficult dungeon runs.

So shelf it. Roll an engineer. Pull out that grenade kit. You’ll sure tag some mobs in DEs! Of course you’ll be denied spots in fractal groups >5 with “lol sorry it’s hard enough with a pug as it is”, have huge itemization problems, expect every much-needed and fair buff to come with a massive nerf, have Anet speak incoherent nonsense about your class design, and be told by your friends that Engineers have no place in the tpvp meta. But DEs! DEs!

Windwalker.2047:

Please do share your exalted ele build that does so much damage i would love to see it.

GC s/d can do amazing things in PvE. 40k bursts with good escapes in good gear. You never see them outside of farming because the instant you hit anything that doesn’t die in the burst you have no sustainable defense beyond a few escape cooldowns.

plasmacutter.2709:

I’m done. I’m hanging it up and continuing with my ele – which does more damage in CLERICS GEAR AT 73 THAN MY MESMER DOES IN RAMPAGERS AT 80, after which I’ll probably do guardian or engineer.

If you think you’re going to have better luck as an engineer you’re wrong. Worst designed, most bugged profession in the game. And there are a lot of bugs in this game.

I cant believe the people in this thread yelling about mesmers having poor damage and claiming phanstasm are pets.

People spec badly so the class must have poor damage. It’s better to learn to spec right in the first place for what you wanna achieve.

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec. It also comes with great damage buffs for my group, like massive stacks of vulnerability aswell as haste. The damage from phantasms along with the WM instaganks anyone it touches pretty much. Staff2+Mirror+daze shatter, followed by a iLock+iZerker+GS2+MW and you have a downed whatever.

The group I run with in fractal (on my engi (2 engi, 1 war, 1 guard, 1 mesmer)) usually takes down the power suit after the second cauldron is dropped on him, thanks to our lovely mesmer. 10 sec haste is fun. On a bad run he dies at the third.

And regarding phantasms, no they are not pets or summons, they are offensive spells, ment for dealing damage. None of them stick to your group, their prime directive is to inflict damage. They have passive defensive abilites, but they are gone after each kill.

They are your outstretched grasping hand.

But then again plasmacutter.2709, you said rampagers gear and you’re amazed you deal low damage? Maybe you should try berserker gear and spec so your shatters and phantasms actually deal damage?

All primary phantasmal attacks are based on your attack, zerkers WW, duelists pew pew pew, locks bolt and so on. The only part of a phanstasm thats based on your condition damage would be the bleed proc and confusion some of them inflict.

Staff and even scepter are better for a power+crit spec than for a condition spec. The phantasms just deal that much damage.

SneakyErvin.3056:

I cant believe the people in this thread yelling about mesmers having poor damage and claiming phanstasm are pets.

People spec badly so the class must have poor damage. It’s better to learn to spec right in the first place for what you wanna achieve.

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec. It also comes with great damage buffs for my group, like massive stacks of vulnerability aswell as haste. The damage from phantasms along with the WM instaganks anyone it touches pretty much. Staff2+Mirror+daze shatter, followed by a iLock+iZerker+GS2+MW and you have a downed whatever.

The group I run with in fractal (on my engi (2 engi, 1 war, 1 guard, 1 mesmer)) usually takes down the power suit after the second cauldron is dropped on him, thanks to our lovely mesmer. 10 sec haste is fun. On a bad run he dies at the third.

And regarding phantasms, no they are not pets or summons, they are offensive spells, ment for dealing damage. None of them stick to your group, their prime directive is to inflict damage. They have passive defensive abilites, but they are gone after each kill.

They are your outstretched grasping hand.

But then again plasmacutter.2709, you said rampagers gear and you’re amazed you deal low damage? Maybe you should try berserker gear and spec so your shatters and phantasms actually deal damage?

All primary phantasmal attacks are based on your attack, zerkers WW, duelists pew pew pew, locks bolt and so on. The only part of a phanstasm thats based on your condition damage would be the bleed proc and confusion some of them inflict.

Staff and even scepter are better for a power+crit spec than for a condition spec. The phantasms just deal that much damage.

Lol you’re definitely playing WvW if you’re using a build like that, and getting numbers like that from phantams.

It’s a shame so many people are being so critical of somebody voicing their frustrations on the forums. Very few if any people are truly going to shelf their Mesmers over the recent changes. The class is unique and still fun to play. Change was expected but the retraction of SS on top of the exploit fix was not necessary and was simply an obvious example of ANet being reactive to the qq’ing on the forums and not sticking to their stated “we change the game in small measures” philosophy. Fixing or slapping a band-aid on shatters would have been enough. If there was still an issue SS could have been adjusted.

Again this thread is really more about somebody venting their frustrations than anything else. Mesmer has been hit by the nerf bat relentlessly, and the OP has had enough.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec.

What I see from this is that you are unaffected by the renerf to Shattered Strength because you are not even using it. And the GCD doesn’t affect you because you don’t have iPersona either.

It’s really easy to claim that people shouldn’t complain about a nerf when it does not affect yourself whatsoever.

Why would I shelve my mesmer? I played before the 3-might stack buff which allowed me to kill 2-3 people at a time..

The GCD is going to be fixed as soon as they code the clones to stop shattering which shouldn’t be hard to do! Just add a [Shattered] tag if[Shattered]No Second Shatter effects No might, somewhere in there..

It’s not that big of a deal, I honestly need the 0.25 seconds to press Mirror Images, or decide if I want to stealth.

Darnis.4056:

Why would I shelve my mesmer? I played before the 3-might stack buff which allowed me to kill 2-3 people at a time..

The GCD is going to be fixed as soon as they code the clones to stop shattering which shouldn’t be hard to do! Just add a [Shattered] tag if[Shattered]No Second Shatter effects No might, somewhere in there..

It’s not that big of a deal, I honestly need the 0.25 seconds to press Mirror Images, or decide if I want to stealth.

Not only that but just about every skill in the game has a .25 sec activation time or more. I have pointed it out in another thread. You can shut down a targets burst when they go to activate a skill with your daze then go to town for 1 sec. You don’t need to be mashing 4 buttons at once.

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

Mjk.7562:

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

We took a lesson from thieves.
If we complain and spam the forums, Anet will pay more attention to us.

If we stop whining, adapt and move along, we get more nerfs because thieves still can’t beat us. (We’ve gotten one noticeable buff since launch and it was mostly reverted… because people complained and spammed the forums)

EnRohbi.2187:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec.

What I see from this is that you are unaffected by the renerf to Shattered Strength because you are not even using it. And the GCD doesn’t affect you because you don’t have iPersona either.

It’s really easy to claim that people shouldn’t complain about a nerf when it does not affect yourself whatsoever.

It also proves there are other builds that work just as well as exploited or overbuffed specs. This isnt anything new what Anet is doing. They are doing what every other company has done since the dawn of MMOs, they fix exploits. Its not their fault if you have started to rely on an exploited form of skill use.

I’m sure they will change the GCD into something else, that doesnt effect iPersona so you can buttonmash your way in the future.

It’s also 0.25 sec we are talking about, it shouldnt effect you unless you really mash your buttons like crazy.

SneakyErvin.3056:

EnRohbi.2187:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec.

What I see from this is that you are unaffected by the renerf to Shattered Strength because you are not even using it. And the GCD doesn’t affect you because you don’t have iPersona either.

It’s really easy to claim that people shouldn’t complain about a nerf when it does not affect yourself whatsoever.

It also proves there are other builds that work just as well as exploited or overbuffed specs. This isnt anything new what Anet is doing. They are doing what every other company has done since the dawn of MMOs, they fix exploits. Its not their fault if you have started to rely on an exploited form of skill use.

I’m sure they will change the GCD into something else, that doesnt effect iPersona so you can buttonmash your way in the future.

It’s also 0.25 sec we are talking about, it shouldnt effect you unless you really mash your buttons like crazy.

I had actually not used the exploit knowningly.
I’m told it was easy to trigger, so I may have done so inadvertantly at times.

The GCD just doesn’t mesh very well with iPersona, which was a really powerful trait for a lot of offensive and defensive reasons. It still is, it’s just a little harder to apply it defensively now.

Shattered Strength was the bigger issue for me.
I know it’s still better than it was originally, it’s just showing a certain attitude from the Devs towards the Mesmers that most of us Mesmers really don’t like. And that attitude is that when we do get a seldom little buff to any trait, it will be taken away when the rest of the game world realizes and complains about it.

EDIT: As far as the “there are non-exploitive builds that work” comment, nobody likes it when the build they’re using is nerfed. In this case, it was the build I was using. When I log off at night I’d like to know that I log on the next morning still being as effective as I was when I went to bed.

SneakyErvin.3056:

EnRohbi.2187:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Currently my mesmer deals around 3k MW crits, 8-9k crits for iWarlock and iZerker with a 30/30/0/0/10 spec.

What I see from this is that you are unaffected by the renerf to Shattered Strength because you are not even using it. And the GCD doesn’t affect you because you don’t have iPersona either.

It’s really easy to claim that people shouldn’t complain about a nerf when it does not affect yourself whatsoever.

It also proves there are other builds that work just as well as exploited or overbuffed specs. This isnt anything new what Anet is doing. They are doing what every other company has done since the dawn of MMOs, they fix exploits. Its not their fault if you have started to rely on an exploited form of skill use.

I’m sure they will change the GCD into something else, that doesnt effect iPersona so you can buttonmash your way in the future.

It’s also 0.25 sec we are talking about, it shouldnt effect you unless you really mash your buttons like crazy.

I’m gonna have to agree with you. NO reason people need to QQ so much about an obvious mechanic needing adjustment. I play ONLY a mesmer as my main and have since October. In all I still feel very strong dps wise and am competitive against other professions. 0.25 secs barely affects me, though the change is obvious and takes some readjustment from the old system. I mean I can still do my fave thing and have up to 7-8 max clones running to a target at a time (depending if he’s running or not) and enjoy the train

Btw, my build is 20/20/0/0/30

the problems of mesmer pve have been discussed to death and the problems are already staring you straight in the face
anet choose to ignore this, and the only successful mesmers are those who play stockbroker on the TP or have other characters.
alot of people here on this forum are just blind. just look at how many people saying “QQ STOP BEING BAD”

anyway u shouldn’t even bother to post here, sadly even the forums at gamefaqs are more objective then those who frequent this subforum.
and yes we are good at pvp but that doesn’t really matter when majority of the game is pve

So you’re not good at pve?
How can it be possible?

Haven’t you peeps learned that anet does nerfing instead of fixing/changing for the best? They nerfed stuff in gw1 for 8 years lmao. I assure you, come back to gw2 in a year and every class will feel weaker. Be ready, READY for a massive thief nerf in the next months (thief forum will explode) and then a juicy warrior nerf. Everything will be nerfed with anet, we, peeps who play mes are the first, that is all.

SerMahad.4813:

The only pattern I can see is the one about people ragequitting and whining as soon as something maybe looking like a nerf touches their class/playing style. Even when it’s among the most effective and customizable professions around in the game.
Personally I wasn’t using SS nor any bug about shatters – I’m not sure which was it in detail even now, but that GCD must be there for a reason – but I still see the patch as a fix since SS was blatantly op.
Yours sincerely, and still having fun playing my mesmer.

Did you even read the OP post? He is mad because Anet instead of doing proper code fixed just changed numbers. Easy fix for them and not one that is done with customer in mind. Try that in any other type of business and you will lose allot of customers. He is not rage quitting because of the nerf more of fact that nerf was just lazy Anet trying to appease whiniers on forum and not implementing it properly. BTW the .25 cool down did nto fix the double explode issue.

Mjk.7562:

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

Again some yohoo commenting with out even reading whole post. The OP was not whining about they nerf it was way Anet typically handles everything not related to thief or Warrior. Nerf with as little as possible work on their part to hell with customer. And FYI OP was talking about PvE why in hell would you whip out your kitten apout WvW as incase you are not aware PvE and WvW are kinda not same thing.

Moddo.7105:

Mjk.7562:

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

Again some yohoo commenting with out even reading whole post. The OP was not whining about they nerf it was way Anet typically handles everything not related to thief or Warrior. Nerf with as little as possible work on their part to hell with customer. And FYI OP was talking about PvE why in hell would you whip out your kitten apout WvW as incase you are not aware PvE and WvW are kinda not same thing.

Guessing you don’t even try to read ArenaNet news. They said this was not perma, this was a temp fix to it. It was over the holidays and most of them was not even working. More then likely when the big patch for this month comes out, they will change it.

EsLafiel.4517:

Moddo.7105:

Mjk.7562:

Just read the patch logs and quickly ran here to read some whine threads which i expected. I see absolutly nothing wrong with fixing obvious exploits/broken mechanics.
I haven’t used them thus i am not affected and still i am king in WvW. All i can say, stop whining, adapt and move along or do not let the doors hit ya on your way out to shelve your mesmer…

Again some yohoo commenting with out even reading whole post. The OP was not whining about they nerf it was way Anet typically handles everything not related to thief or Warrior. Nerf with as little as possible work on their part to hell with customer. And FYI OP was talking about PvE why in hell would you whip out your kitten apout WvW as incase you are not aware PvE and WvW are kinda not same thing.

Guessing you don’t even try to read ArenaNet news. They said this was not perma, this was a temp fix to it. It was over the holidays and most of them was not even working. More then likely when the big patch for this month comes out, they will change it.

I’ve read that post, but it doesn’t instil a lot of hope.
They could take 6 months to actually code in a real fix and they’d still call it “temporary”.