Guild Wars 2

And confusion does the same damage per tick as bleed.

Duelist attacks every 6.6s traited with PH.

~70% crit chance with Rampager gear

~2000 cdmg with gear, might, banner

8 × .7 / 6.6 × 5 = 4.24 stacks of bleed from Sharper Images

8 × .33 / 6.6 × 2 × 5 = 4 stacks of bleed from Duelist’s Discipline

8 × .7 / 6.6 × 3 = 2.55 stacks of confusion from Confusing Combatants

Total = 8.24 bleed, 2.55 confusion per Duelist

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Help! Frifox! Make it stoppp.

Someone break it down for us dummies.

Dummy version here Chaos, was asking how much condi pressure you can put with 3 iDuelists + duelist discipline + sharper image + confusing combatant.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Condi-builds-in-PvE-Dungeon-after-HoT/

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

You lost me from here bruh, can you elaborate a bit more?
Also don’t forget crit attacks from mesmer himself also inflict confusion, which isn’t too hard with rampager gear.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

I’m just waiting for the explanation to this.

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

Are you balancing the equation or finding the value of something because 2000/20 = 100 + 42.5 is just flat out wrong.

Yeah I know I’m being pedantic but seriously, learn to write maths.

Edit: Should be

Condition damage from stats = 2000/20 = 100 damage per tick.

Base condition damage is 42.5.

Damage per tick = 100 + 42.5 = 142.5.

Even that isn’t 100% right as it should state formula but it at least makes sense and can be followed.

Condi specs for mesmer unlike engineer and warrior have horrendous cleaving potential and don’t frontload conditions anywhere near as well, in addition to having low base numbers on their power portions unlike the engineer and warrior.

Basically, on any run where thrash pulls and clears are involved, you’re a liability for the group. On bosses you have a ton of ramp up and barely break even with ele and warrior, and fall still considerably behind thief.

Mesmer in PvE by virtue of how their weaponskills and illusion mechanic works will continue to be a power based class outside PvP.

You’re also forgetting Chronomancer wells for all intents and purposes are power-centric.

With power component you can do slightly higher, but warrior and ele will still achieve the highest dps. I can easily achieve 25k+ with just one skill (HB or whirling attack if stacking) in full zerk scholar warrior.

Duelist discipline can make scepter/pistol+GS hybrid build look better in PvP/WvW though, but hard to say anything until the new meta developed in HoT. That 50% recharge can make pistol 5 an iDuelist generating skill

Fay.2357:

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

The answer to your problems is “Chronomancer”… without slow or quickness I’d be 4s for the summoning of all three. (maintaining them is a different story)
F5→Duelist→SoEther→Duelist→F5→Duelist (SoE is ready if one of them dies)

Zenith.7301:

Condi specs for mesmer unlike engineer and warrior have horrendous cleaving potential and don’t frontload conditions anywhere near as well, in addition to having low base numbers on their power portions unlike the engineer and warrior.

Basically, on any run where thrash pulls and clears are involved, you’re a liability for the group. On bosses you have a ton of ramp up and barely break even with ele and warrior, and fall still considerably behind thief.

Mesmer in PvE by virtue of how their weaponskills and illusion mechanic works will continue to be a power based class outside PvP.

You’re also forgetting Chronomancer wells for all intents and purposes are power-centric.

Warden is the condi cleave weapon now with bleeds and confusion on crits. Duelists for single targets. Furthermore, sword crits = vulnerability (now affects conditions) and confusion. What gets crazy is how chronophantasma works if there is some reset to attack rate as it will explode the numbers of condi stacks. Mistrust+MoD is potentially insta stack of 10 confusion. Focus pull when timed well will also add a lot of confusion aoe. SotE or F5 or the new DD as mentioned above can quickly get 3 illusions out and frontload.

The ability to keep 3 phantasms alive is an issue but again DD can keep that recharge really low IFF interrupt traits work. That’s why I created the earlier thread about interrupts not working on the break bar. Even if his math isn’t perfect, it still doesn’t include the mesmer’s damage or the power damage from phantasms. Sinister is a thing (30% dps loss over zerker but +1k condi dmg). So 14k from just condis from just duelists…. then add 25 vulnerability to that which is probably the 1.25 at the end? Now add combo fields for stacking burning or something. Then add sword auto attacks for confusion. Then add power damage. It’s crazy good.

The big 2 issues are:
1)Reflects are weaker and a zerker mesmer can also stack these conditions at almost the same rate with might bringing them up to the 700 condi dmg scale change.
2) Condi duration calculations are probably way off. +40% food but we need the chaos line to get 3% condi duration for each boon on us. Realistically ~12%. Runes that affect bleed/confusion only give +15% max. Would require giver’s weapons and expensive crystals.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Fay.2357:

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

The answer to your problems is “Chronomancer”… without slow or quickness I’d be 4s for the summoning of all three. (maintaining them is a different story)
F5->Duelist->SoEther->Duelist->F5->Duelist (SoE is ready if one of them dies)

plus signet of illusions for phantasm health (not that it matters with boss) or F5 in case you need to restart after iDuelist and signet recharged. I suppose I’m being too optimistic to say that with the new harmonious mantra, there isn’t much point stacking mantras anymore lol.

@ Zenith, if you’re just pugging who the hell cares? Now that the cap and scaling will be fixed, you really can play how you want without stepping on other’s toes. Theres a very small % of this community that really cares about speedruns, especially PUG speedruns.

Fay.2357:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

Your hilariously wrong, you read the DnT forums page and they list around 14k ( they prove this with a lot of math and long calculations) as a maximum of 14k dps in the most optimal party for a period under 25s. Any higher and the dps degrades due lack of buffs or delay to rebuff and aside from this you don’t factor dps uptime ( you have to dodge roll or your dead and doing no damage at all). This is obviously a mistake on your part…… and mathed isn’t a word please don’t use such ridiculous slang when it isn’t even something people say.

Sadrien.3470:

Fay.2357:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

Your hilariously wrong, you read the DnT forums page and they list around 14k ( they prove this with a lot of math and long calculations) as a maximum of 14k dps in the most optimal party for a period under 25s. Any higher and the dps degrades due lack of buffs or delay to rebuff and aside from this you don’t factor dps uptime ( you have to dodge roll or your dead and doing no damage at all).

Ok, but even if you knock it down to say 12k dps, which is the more average value, there’s still no way mesmer is realistically going to be cracking that. The duelists will take over 10 seconds each to actually arrive at maximum dps from the conditions, and by that time the boss is mostly dead. Add in an original 4 seconds of start-up time for the casting and it’s even worse.

On top of all that, bosses squish illusions instantly (as we all know). Maintaining 3 duelists up is something that can realistically be done on a very few bosses.

Sadrien.3470:

This is obviously a mistake on your part…… and mathed isn’t a word please don’t use such ridiculous slang when it isn’t even something people say.

No, you’re definitely mistaken here. I used the term, and that definitionally means that it’s good and proper english, because I am the quintessence of perfect grammar, syntax, and vocabulary.

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

Fay.2357:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

Your hilariously wrong, you read the DnT forums page and they list around 14k ( they prove this with a lot of math and long calculations) as a maximum of 14k dps in the most optimal party for a period under 25s. Any higher and the dps degrades due lack of buffs or delay to rebuff and aside from this you don’t factor dps uptime ( you have to dodge roll or your dead and doing no damage at all).

Ok, but even if you knock it down to say 12k dps, which is the more average value, there’s still no way mesmer is realistically going to be cracking that. The duelists will take over 10 seconds each to actually arrive at maximum dps from the conditions, and by that time the boss is mostly dead. Add in an original 4 seconds of start-up time for the casting and it’s even worse.

On top of all that, bosses squish illusions instantly (as we all know). Maintaining 3 duelists up is something that can realistically be done on a very few bosses.

Sadrien.3470:

This is obviously a mistake on your part…… and mathed isn’t a word please don’t use such ridiculous slang when it isn’t even something people say.

No, you’re definitely mistaken here. I used the term, and that definitionally means that it’s good and proper english, because I am the quintessence of perfect grammar, syntax, and vocabulary.

In a good team 12k is a more average number, that we can agree on. In a pug group eles normally get about 8 – 10k damage per second on staff unless stuck with a totally incompetent pug group, which happens often enough in fractals. This is assuming the ele is not oneshot because he miss times a dodge and is not running the lava tomb trait ( in which case you can get higher damage when downed by 2x lavafont + 33% damage). It very much depends on the encounter, team, and eles skill lvl.

Fay.2357:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

First off, the 1.25 is vuln.

Second, that 14k number is ONLY the condition damage from the Duelists. In case you forgot, you still deal direct damage.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Fay.2357:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Multiply 3x Duelists, then multiply by 100% condition duration + 65% bleed duration = 65.51 bleed, 15.3 confusion

= 80.81 total

2000 cdmg / 20 = +100 damage per tick, add 42.5 base = 142.5 per tick

142.5 × 80.81 × 1.25 = WAY TOO MUCH

Might want to check your math at this point.

My bad, misread the condition duration as confusion duration. 8.24 bleed/duelist * 3 duelsts = 24.72 bleeds total, 24.72*1.65 = 40.788 bleeds full total.

You got the confusion right at 15.3, so totals out to 55.

I’m also failing to see where you get the random 1.25 multiplier from at the end, so let me give you a corrected final value.

142.5*55 = 7837 dps.

Fun fact, if I use your numbers, I get 142.5*80*1.25 = 14250 dps.

Want to take a guess at what the dps for a warrior or ele in a dps group is?

…It’s around 14k.

Want to take a guess how realistic it will be to maintain 3 duelists in any scenario?

Absolutely unrealistic.

Want to take a guess at how dead the boss will be by the time you get 3 duelists up and fully ticking?

Very dead.

In summary

You mathed wrong, and even if you mathed right, your conclusion is hilariously wrong.

First off, the 1.25 is vuln.

Second, that 14k number is ONLY the condition damage from the Duelists. In case you forgot, you still deal direct damage.

this would also exclude the condi damage dealt by the mesmer, who is applying condis and direct damage him/her self assuming you did not calculate that in.

And 24 shots at 20% projectile finishers for even more condi dmg ^^.
It really doesn’t matter that these are ideal conditions or not.

The scaling will most likely change though

I think that:

• In this case, the numbers matter and we don’t know the final numbers.
• We don’t know the new formulas.
• Add how the actual skills can be modified/changed plus the changes in the provisional traits.
• No more % condition duration in the trait lines itself.
• The idcs…. about all those hidden ones.

We have a “Ready Up” about this next Monday, so before push the pre-panic button, we could wait and avoid to shake this.

Sadrien.3470:

This is assuming the ele is not oneshot because he miss times a dodge and is not running the lava tomb trait ( in which case you can get higher damage when downed by 2x lavafont + 33% damage). It very much depends on the encounter, team, and eles skill lvl.

Eww lava tomb. That trait causes loads of problems, if you’re bad enough to need it, you’re the type that will need stealth rezzing….oh wait you’re not stealthed because of the bloomin trait doing damage.

I think we should perhaps wait and see what happens in the patch before we start asking Anet for a nerf to something very few people will be running. For all we know confusion on crit isn’t a thing anymore. I’d also wait until I see frifox’s maths as well as guangs.

apharma.3741:

Sadrien.3470:

This is assuming the ele is not oneshot because he miss times a dodge and is not running the lava tomb trait ( in which case you can get higher damage when downed by 2x lavafont + 33% damage). It very much depends on the encounter, team, and eles skill lvl.

Eww lava tomb. That trait causes loads of problems, if you’re bad enough to need it, you’re the type that will need stealth rezzing….oh wait you’re not stealthed because of the bloomin trait doing damage.

I think we should perhaps wait and see what happens in the patch before we start asking Anet for a nerf to something very few people will be running. For all we know confusion on crit isn’t a thing anymore. I’d also wait until I see frifox’s maths as well as guangs.

Have you played high / lvl fractals on ele? Certain trash mobs chunk you for half your hp… single attacks from most bosses AoEs will down you, If your just playing to get money and not for speed runs you won’t be paying enough attention to stay alive all the time and intentionally going downed during a meteor can boost your dps by a huge amount in pug runs if you are paying attention.

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

apharma.3741:

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

I pug lvl 20 and up fractals and I can tell you I have never seen pugs that are actually coordinated enough to blind bosses. Besides that does not change the fact that you can get a insane dps boost because of lavatomb if you choose when to go downed state.

Sadrien.3470:

apharma.3741:

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

I pug lvl 20 and up fractals and I can tell you I have never seen pugs that are actually coordinated enough to blind bosses. Besides that does not change the fact that you can get a insane dps boost because of lavatomb if you choose when to go downed state.

It doesn’t exactly take coordination to blind enemies. It takes a single thief with black powder, or 2 eles using the glyph.

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

apharma.3741:

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

I pug lvl 20 and up fractals and I can tell you I have never seen pugs that are actually coordinated enough to blind bosses. Besides that does not change the fact that you can get a insane dps boost because of lavatomb if you choose when to go downed state.

It doesn’t exactly take coordination to blind enemies. It takes a single thief with black powder, or 2 eles using the glyph.

Well assume you have one ele (yourself), no thieves, a bad guardian, a warrior who you have to remind to carry banners, and a ranger who places frost spirit in every imaginable AoE. You are now the only source of blind in your party. You can blind for 10 out of 60s. As soon as that 10s period ends your group is forced ( oh no!) To dodgeroll. Now your guardian gets one shot and your warrior didn’t drop any banners so your dps is a lot lower. Let’s say this is all against the flame shaman in the grawl fractal. Now your stuck with a failed burn and surprise you have 20s of burning = More than your hp. Bad teams = downed state traits greaterthan 10% non downed state damage.

Sadrien.3470:

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

apharma.3741:

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

I pug lvl 20 and up fractals and I can tell you I have never seen pugs that are actually coordinated enough to blind bosses. Besides that does not change the fact that you can get a insane dps boost because of lavatomb if you choose when to go downed state.

It doesn’t exactly take coordination to blind enemies. It takes a single thief with black powder, or 2 eles using the glyph.

Well assume you have one ele (yourself), no thieves, a bad guardian, a warrior who you have to remind to carry banners, and a ranger who places frost spirit in every imaginable AoE. You are now the only source of blind in your party. You can blind for 10 out of 60s. As soon as that 10s period ends your group is forced ( oh no!) To dodgeroll. Now your guardian gets one shot and your warrior didn’t drop any banners so your dps is a lot lower. Let’s say this is all against the flame shaman in the grawl fractal. Now your stuck with a failed burn and surprise you have 20s of burning = More than your hp. Bad teams = downed state traits greaterthan 10% non downed state damage.

If my team was that bad, I’d leave and find a new one. Teams like that don’t become apparent halfway through a run, they become apparent in the first fight. I don’t like to waste time, and I have zero qualms about leaving a team of random internet strangers high and dry because they’re awful.

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

apharma.3741:

Yes, I have over 2k hours on ele, it’s my main and I do 50 on it. The trait is bad. You should be using blinds (sandstorm) on enemies and with 2 eles it’s easy to maintain. Even better if you have a thief but a guard has lots of blinds too.

Just a shame virtue of justice isn’t renewed on every kill.

Blinds > downed traits.

In before someone mentions gear, full zerk, using staff or D/F depending on the situation.

I pug lvl 20 and up fractals and I can tell you I have never seen pugs that are actually coordinated enough to blind bosses. Besides that does not change the fact that you can get a insane dps boost because of lavatomb if you choose when to go downed state.

It doesn’t exactly take coordination to blind enemies. It takes a single thief with black powder, or 2 eles using the glyph.

Well assume you have one ele (yourself), no thieves, a bad guardian, a warrior who you have to remind to carry banners, and a ranger who places frost spirit in every imaginable AoE. You are now the only source of blind in your party. You can blind for 10 out of 60s. As soon as that 10s period ends your group is forced ( oh no!) To dodgeroll. Now your guardian gets one shot and your warrior didn’t drop any banners so your dps is a lot lower. Let’s say this is all against the flame shaman in the grawl fractal. Now your stuck with a failed burn and surprise you have 20s of burning = More than your hp. Bad teams = downed state traits greaterthan 10% non downed state damage.

If my team was that bad, I’d leave and find a new one. Teams like that don’t become apparent halfway through a run, they become apparent in the first fight. I don’t like to waste time, and I have zero qualms about leaving a team of random internet strangers high and dry because they’re awful.

Your such a mean person :P

Edit : I find lots of bad pugs my favorite – tank war/ guard with no AR that dies after 5s using nomads / clerics gear.

Also: @ Fay If you "quit the game " and are the " ghost of pyro past" why are you so active in the forums and talk as if your an active player of gw2?

Sadrien.3470:

Also: @ Fay If you "quit the game "

I still play on a not-infrequent basis, and plan on coming back more often after the release of both core specs and HoT.

Sadrien.3470:

and are the " ghost of pyro past"

Has nothing to do with my activity ingame.

Well, I think in this case Sadrien you should learn to solo as the other players are bad and are more of a liability than a help.

Also you can’t blind bosses (ok, 10% chance blind works but let’s not rely on that), personally I find renewing stamina in arcane just too good to give up with a bad group. Also D/F can stack a reasonable amount of might, has 2 projectile mitigate abilities, 1 invuln and if you pair it up with arcane shield you can carry bad groups quite well.

For bosses I don’t recommend going down as it kills you very fast if focused, so wouldn’t take lava tomb. For trash, LH, sandstorm, signet of air active, unsteady ground to just keep yourselves safe while you nuke is a much better approach. Arcane shield is a life saver, got me through the first 3 months of zerk ele, still does sometimes.

So now that we know the exact numbers for the patch I can tell you exactly how OP mesmer will be.

Dueling Rampager mesmer, Agony/Malice, Krait runes (45% bleed duration), Rare Veggie Pizza (40% condition duration), Signet of Midnight (+20% condi duration). None of the toxic oil crap cause that’s super expensive, if you want to be a rich minmax tryhard you can add it in for a tiny bit more DPS.

Staff Mes:

12.5 bleeds, .5 burns, 1.2 confusion per clone

3.3 bleeds, .8 burns, 2.5 confusion from yourself

Total: About 46 bleeds, 2.2 burn, 5.5 confusion = 11.4k total condition DPS (plus about 1k in direct DPS from your crappy staff auto).

Sw/P Mes:

23 bleeds, 1.7 confusion per Pistolero

Total: About 70 bleeds, 5 confusion = 17k condition damage (+ about 3k direct).

Also keep in mind that these aren’t multually exclusive, so you can summon a Pistolero then 2 staff clones for instant 3-illusion DPS and still get about 3.3k per staff clone and 6.6k per Pistolero.

A couple things:

First, it looks like you’re assuming that both hits of the staff autos will hit the target. This isn’t valid in a party, they’ll often be soaked up by party members.

Second, I’m not sure how you’re getting 12.5 bleeds per clone but only 3.3 bleeds from you. That seems wrong, you might want to check your math on that again.

Third, this setup is single target only. Good luck doing any damage to a pack of trash.

I am assuming a 1-second average delay between clone attacks. It seems to actually be random but 1 second seems about average. That puts clone fire at once per 2.4 seconds. A proc of Sharper Images will last about 12 seconds at 235% condition duration so you can fit 5 attacks into that timespan. At 80% crit chance 4 of those attacks will crit and they will hit twice, so you get 8 stacks.

Additionally, Winds of Chaos also has a bleed proc that activates 33% of the time for 7 × 2.35 seconds = about 16.5 seconds. Divide by 2.4 = 6.85 attacks, or 13.kittens (rounding). A third of those hits will bleed so you get about 4.5 total bleeds. 8 + 4.5 = 12.5 total.

Those numbers look reasonable, but they do mean you screwed up on personal dps. Personal bleeds should be sitting closer to 6 or so in that case, which would make more sense.

You’re right about that one. I forgot to multiply by condition duration when transcribing the numbers from my spreadsheet. 3.33 is the base bleed duration so you’re looking at about 7.7 bleeds as a final number.

Given the sheer amount of bleed that a mesmer can output (while AFKing, even) on a worldboss, I wouldn’t be surprised if even 1500 turns out to be too low of a stack limit.

You’re still forgetting my first and third points though. In a party situation, it’s unlikely for you to get 2 bounces out of your staff autos, and your non-single target dps in a build like that is absolutely trash.

Conditions often need some time to accumulate in large numbers. And they can be cleaned to save time. Usually too long when you die of a combo or two. Or in a blink from an insane skill. How unfair can be depending on what you have in front or behind…

Zoser.7245:

Conditions often need some time to accumulate in large numbers. And they can be cleaned to save time. Usually too long when you die of a combo or two. Or in a blink from an insane skill. How unfair can be depending on what you have in front or behind…

Just a heads up, this thread is discussing PvE capability. Cleanses are sorta irrelevant, as are the rest of what you’ve mentioned when taken in the sense of how you’re discussing them.

Oops my mistake. I was reading the mess on the pre-purchase of the expansion and missed the correct thread between browser tabs. Sorry. : )

Fay.2357:

You’re still forgetting my first and third points though. In a party situation, it’s unlikely for you to get 2 bounces out of your staff autos, and your non-single target dps in a build like that is absolutely trash.

If you’re worried about misbounces you can still use GS clones which are worth about 2.5k per clone. And for AOE you still have Chaos Storm and/or Berserkers now that those are viable weapons too.