So condition removal
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As a Mesmer your best defense against conditions is to not be there when they’re being applied.
Don’t know if you noticed but almost all the professions have stopped asking a net for big things like this. Most of us have resigned to the fact that the devs who designed the classes are either long since gone or stuck on other projects leaving only incompetent or lost devs to attempt to pick up the pieces.
Look at the Mesmer nerf and bug pile that’s actually expanded over time. Notice a net screwed us over with no compensation just to try and fix culling in wvw…
This is why we kinda stopped asking for nice things.
~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
Honestly I don’t want all classes to be able to viably remove conditions in a useful manners. Say, 4 out of 8 should be able to do it. Ideally, the other 4 have viable ways to handle enemy boons in some way or another.
In other words, use it to encourage teamplay a bit more. Make people depend on each other.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Did we just give up to ask for useful condition removal traits ?
Is something wrong with the ones we have? Mender’s purity is an incredibly strong trait, especially if you use it with the mantra. The torch cd trait is also very strong, providing a lot of sustained and burst condition removal. Lastly, shattered conditions is massively strong for removal, though it could stand to have a buffed radius.
Mesmers also have some of the strongest cleansing utilities in the game, both for group play and solo play.
Conditions are not a problem for any mesmer that cares to build against them even slightly. It’s your choice not to do so.
Honestly between the torch trait and power cleanse, conditions aren’t really an achilles heal for me. I can with stand the initial condition "burst" from classes like necros, and then use stealth, range and positioning + evades to prevent myself from being conditioned up.
If built for it I think mesmers can best withstand a condition burst because of traits like menders purity and the mantra which instantly removes 4 conditions.
Did we just give up to ask for useful condition removal traits ?
Is something wrong with the ones we have? Mender’s purity is an incredibly strong trait, especially if you use it with the mantra. The torch cd trait is also very strong, providing a lot of sustained and burst condition removal. Lastly, shattered conditions is massively strong for removal, though it could stand to have a buffed radius.
Mesmers also have some of the strongest cleansing utilities in the game, both for group play and solo play.
Conditions are not a problem for any mesmer that cares to build against them even slightly. It’s your choice not to do so.
As i said I don’t think anet should buff inspiration trait line to begin with .
just look at ele , almost no d/d ele would carry cleansing utility , many classes rely on different source to remove condition beside utility .This way has bad and good . good for build diversity , bad for balance .
I still think best solution is nerf most condition removal trait and condition apply trait .
But for now some mesmer builds do need more reliable way to clean condition.
shattered conditions: you need DE or scepter for keep illusion up also short CD for shatter skill .And even you do that lets say 4 points in duel line 4 in illusion line 6 in inspiration line .What’s your damage source then , I could only see some 1v1 phant builds to out sustain everyone else or some condi troll builds.
DO we need to BUFF those playstyle ? NO
Honestly I don’t want all classes to be able to viably remove conditions in a useful manners. Say, 4 out of 8 should be able to do it. Ideally, the other 4 have viable ways to handle enemy boons in some way or another.
In other words, use it to encourage teamplay a bit more. Make people depend on each other.
I totally agree with this .
And i think this is how gw2 condition removal skills were designed at start . Anet put so many stupid condition apply traits in game .Now we got more passive condition cleanse traits and weapon skills .
As i said I don’t think anet should buff inspiration trait line to begin with .
Did I say they should buff it? I said we already have access to a lot of strong traits/utilities for cleansing.
just look at ele , almost no d/d ele would carry cleansing utility , many classes rely on different source to remove condition beside utility .This way has bad and good . good for build diversity , bad for balance .
I really have no idea what you’re saying here.
I still think best solution is nerf most condition removal trait and condition apply trait .
So you say this…and then you say
But for now some mesmer builds do need more reliable way to clean condition.
This. You can’t have it both ways. You’re not allowed to say ‘oh, they should really nerf condition removal stuff, I think it’s too strong…but they should add more things for the builds that just I use!’ Yeah, that’s not how it works I’m afraid.
shattered conditions: you need DE
Yep.
for keep illusion up also short CD for shatter skill
Nope.
And even you do that lets say 4 points in duel line 4 in illusion line 6 in inspiration line .
What makes you think you need stuff in illusions? Meta shatter right now is 4/4/6 staff/gs, I don’t see any points in illusions there.
What’s your damage source then , I could only see some 1v1 phant builds
Yes, 1v1 phantasm builds with a shatter trait, I can see this too.
to out sustain everyone else or some condi troll builds.
Yes, a condition build with shatters and 30 in inspiration? I can see this one even more than the phantasm build with shatter traits.
Look, you’ve basically said that the only problem is that you don’t have condition removal in the builds that you play, and you don’t like this. However, you’re unwilling to modify your builds at all to take some of the incredibly powerful condition removal that mesmer has access to, so instead you cry about having no condition removal and ask for changes. This is not how it works.
If you want condition removal, take it, but don’t sit here and make a whine thread about how condition removal is too powerful but you need more of it just in your builds.
As a Mesmer your best defense against conditions is to not be there when they’re being applied.
Best for is interrupting everything from necro then kill him as quick as possible .Engi could be harder tho.
Overall tell me how to deal with condition added nothing to topic.
If you want condition removal, take it, but don’t sit here and make a whine thread about how condition removal is too powerful but you need more of it just in your builds.
Again:any classes rely on different source to remove condition beside utility .This way has bad and good . Its good for build diversity , bad for balance .
I see your point , but you didn’t get mine .We could get some weaker versions of those said strong condition removal traits for other builds than just encouraging more phant AI playstyle or worse :stealth condition applier.
ALso how could it be a whine thread, i gave idea what i thought could be nice addition for mesmer condition removal.If you think those are not needed or op please just say so .
This. You can’t have it both ways. You’re not allowed to say ‘oh, they should really nerf condition removal stuff, I think it’s too strong…but they should add more things for the builds that just I use!’ Yeah, that’s not how it works I’m afraid.
Let me be clear , in the end best way to go is nerfing those said traits for all classes .That requires a lot of work to redesign and rebalance game . Anet won’t do this in short time .So giving advice to this is almots pointless . That’s why I think anet could buff few traits or weapon skill for shatter builds before they ever start rework other stuff .
I DO NOT WANT ANET DO BOTH WAYS.
4/5 trait lines don’t have condition removal traits . Only dom line has a trait for torch .
It’s clear to see how you get locked to that trait line.
It’s like anet kept trash everything wars have and you guys just tell wars :you have hambow +healing signet +Ire ,it’s your fault not to play it .
Another honest thought tho if anet removes portal from mesmer we would finally have slot for good condition removal skill when you have nothing to do for your team .
I totally agree with this .
And i think this is how gw2 condition removal skills were designed at start . Anet put so many stupid condition apply traits in game .Now we got more passive condition cleanse traits and weapon skills .
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, too.
The original beta balance started as something which split types of skills onto classes, usually giving the others minimal access but not useful one. Then over the patches and post-release changes, it washed out more and more.
Which is a shame and something I hope they reverse (but given their weird balance-focus for sPvP/tPvP, it seems unlikely), as class-interdependency has been reduced too much as it is.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
(edited by Carighan.6758)
Did we just give up to ask for useful condition removal traits ?
Is something wrong with the ones we have? Mender’s purity is an incredibly strong trait, especially if you use it with the mantra. The torch cd trait is also very strong, providing a lot of sustained and burst condition removal. Lastly, shattered conditions is massively strong for removal, though it could stand to have a buffed radius.
Mesmers also have some of the strongest cleansing utilities in the game, both for group play and solo play.
Conditions are not a problem for any mesmer that cares to build against them even slightly. It’s your choice not to do so.
just look at ele , almost no d/d ele would carry cleansing utility , many classes rely on different source to remove condition beside utility .This way has bad and good . good for build diversity , bad for balance .
do we even play the same game? d/d meta celestial ele cleans condis with each utility used, 2 condis on attuning to water, 1 condi with water 5.
some eles even take ether renewal , 8 condi cleansees every 15 s alone with that…
but eles have a difficult time avoiding dmg (d/d eles) in common to mesmer
mesmers rely on highly active play and positioning the avoid such dmg
4/5 trait lines don’t have condition removal traits . Only dom line has a trait for torch .
It’s clear to see how you get locked to that trait line.
It’s like anet kept trash everything wars have and you guys just tell wars :you have hambow +healing signet +Ire ,it’s your fault not to play it .Another honest thought tho if anet removes portal from mesmer we would finally have slot for good condition removal skill when you have nothing to do for your team .
Domination:
Cleansing Conflagration – Torch skills remove conditions. Reduces recharge on torch skills.
Dueling:
Mantra Mastery – Reduced recharge on mantras. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)
Harmonious Mantras – Mantras can be activated three times before needing to be channeled again. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)
Chaos:
Master of Manipulation – Reduces recharge on manipulation skills. (Arcane Theivery)
Cleansing Inscriptions – Activating a signet removes a condition.
Chaotic Dampening – Increased toughness while wielding a staff or trident. Reduces recharge on staff and trident skills
Inspiration:
Glamour Mastery – Reduces recharge on glamour skills. (Null Field)
Mender’s Purity – Remove a condition when you heal. (when traiting mantras and using the mantra heal this ability is used frequently)
Temporal Enchanter – Glamour skills last longer.
Shattered Conditions – Using a shatter skill removes a condition from you and allies around you.
Illusion:
Illusionary Invigoration – Recharge all of your shatter skills when your health drops below the threshold. (combined with Shattered Conditions)
Illusionary Persona – Shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well. (SC)
3 of the lines have traits that explicitly say “removes a condition” and all lines have traits that effect our ability to remove conditions in some way.
4/5 trait lines don’t have condition removal traits . Only dom line has a trait for torch .
It’s clear to see how you get locked to that trait line.
It’s like anet kept trash everything wars have and you guys just tell wars :you have hambow +healing signet +Ire ,it’s your fault not to play it .Another honest thought tho if anet removes portal from mesmer we would finally have slot for good condition removal skill when you have nothing to do for your team .
Domination:
Cleansing Conflagration – Torch skills remove conditions. Reduces recharge on torch skills.Dueling:
Mantra Mastery – Reduced recharge on mantras. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)
Harmonious Mantras – Mantras can be activated three times before needing to be channeled again. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)Chaos:
Master of Manipulation – Reduces recharge on manipulation skills. (Arcane Theivery)
Cleansing Inscriptions – Activating a signet removes a condition.
Chaotic Dampening – Increased toughness while wielding a staff or trident. Reduces recharge on staff and trident skillsInspiration:
Glamour Mastery – Reduces recharge on glamour skills. (Null Field)
Mender’s Purity – Remove a condition when you heal. (when traiting mantras and using the mantra heal this ability is used frequently)
Temporal Enchanter – Glamour skills last longer.
Shattered Conditions – Using a shatter skill removes a condition from you and allies around you.Illusion:
Illusionary Invigoration – Recharge all of your shatter skills when your health drops below the threshold. (combined with Shattered Conditions)
Illusionary Persona – Shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well. (SC)3 of the lines have traits that explicitly say “removes a condition” and all lines have traits that effect our ability to remove conditions in some way.
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
Look at other proffesions,
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Elem-same as necro.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
4/5 trait lines don’t have condition removal traits . Only dom line has a trait for torch .
It’s clear to see how you get locked to that trait line.
It’s like anet kept trash everything wars have and you guys just tell wars :you have hambow +healing signet +Ire ,it’s your fault not to play it .Another honest thought tho if anet removes portal from mesmer we would finally have slot for good condition removal skill when you have nothing to do for your team .
Domination:
Cleansing Conflagration – Torch skills remove conditions. Reduces recharge on torch skills.Dueling:
Mantra Mastery – Reduced recharge on mantras. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)
Harmonious Mantras – Mantras can be activated three times before needing to be channeled again. (Power Clense & Mender’s Purity)Chaos:
Master of Manipulation – Reduces recharge on manipulation skills. (Arcane Theivery)
Cleansing Inscriptions – Activating a signet removes a condition.
Chaotic Dampening – Increased toughness while wielding a staff or trident. Reduces recharge on staff and trident skillsInspiration:
Glamour Mastery – Reduces recharge on glamour skills. (Null Field)
Mender’s Purity – Remove a condition when you heal. (when traiting mantras and using the mantra heal this ability is used frequently)
Temporal Enchanter – Glamour skills last longer.
Shattered Conditions – Using a shatter skill removes a condition from you and allies around you.Illusion:
Illusionary Invigoration – Recharge all of your shatter skills when your health drops below the threshold. (combined with Shattered Conditions)
Illusionary Persona – Shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well. (SC)3 of the lines have traits that explicitly say “removes a condition” and all lines have traits that effect our ability to remove conditions in some way.
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
Look at other proffesions,
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Elem-same as necro.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
engi sacrifices too much for taking a skill only for condis wich isnt even a stunbreaker,would be fine if the condi clean elixir would be a stunbreaker, as it is, nope
engineer is worse off than mesmers (condi cleansee)
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
So what you’re saying is that you don’t like having to use traits and utilities to get condition removal. I suppose I’m fine with this, but now you have to apply that same logic to everyone else too.
Look at other proffesions,
Right, lets take a look.
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Necro definitely has a lot of inherent removals on their skills, but most are actually transfers requiring a target. This is both good and bad of course, but I’ll just say that necro has a lot of removal.
Elem-same as necro.
This is not even close to accurate. Eles will have generally only 1 skill on their weapons that removes conditions. All other removal is added by traits and utilities. Most of these traits are at the master and grandmaster level, so they’re not exactly easy to pick up…which is why the vast majority of ele builds for PvP go 30 into water and arcane.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Removing 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? Don’t get me wrong, the trait is quite decent, but calling it the best condie removal in the game is just extraordinarily false. 1 removal every 3 seconds will remove conditions steadily if they are applied steadily, and will fail tremendously if they’re applied as burst, which is how you kill thieves. Additionally, it’s in the shadow arts traitline, which forces the thief to sacrifice offense. Other than that trait, thief has incredibly limited access to condition removal.
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Yes, guardian has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities. Guess what other class has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities? Oh! It’s the mesmer! If you’re not willing to take traits and utilities on mesmer to remove conditions, then you’re not allowed to go on about how guardians have all these great traits and utilities too.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Same as guardian. Yes, warrior has some strong condition removal traits (and by some, I mean one: cleansing ire, which comes with significant downsides). Warrior also has some strong removal utilities. Again though, you’re talking about all these traits and utilities on warrior while at the same time refusing to take the traits and utilities that mesmer has to accomplish the same goal.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
Yes, engineers have 1 elixir that converts conditions to boons. They also have some decent traits that remove conditions, and healing turret removes a lot of conditions too. As before, they have to take those utilities or use those traits to remove conditions.
I hope you’re seeing a pattern here. What you’re doing would be the equivalent of playing a warrior without cleansing ire, and then complaining on the forums about how you have no access to condition removal. Mesmer has massive amounts of condition removal access…often piggybacking on top of boon strip just for kicks. The fact that you refuse to take those options isn’t the fault of the devs or anyone else, but a personal problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
So what you’re saying is that you don’t like having to use traits and utilities to get condition removal. I suppose I’m fine with this, but now you have to apply that same logic to everyone else too.
Look at other proffesions,
Right, lets take a look.
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Necro definitely has a lot of inherent removals on their skills, but most are actually transfers requiring a target. This is both good and bad of course, but I’ll just say that necro has a lot of removal.
Elem-same as necro.
This is not even close to accurate. Eles will have generally only 1 skill on their weapons that removes conditions. All other removal is added by traits and utilities. Most of these traits are at the master and grandmaster level, so they’re not exactly easy to pick up…which is why the vast majority of ele builds for PvP go 30 into water and arcane.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Removing 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? Don’t get me wrong, the trait is quite decent, but calling it the best condie removal in the game is just extraordinarily false. 1 removal every 3 seconds will remove conditions steadily if they are applied steadily, and will fail tremendously if they’re applied as burst, which is how you kill thieves. Additionally, it’s in the shadow arts traitline, which forces the thief to sacrifice offense. Other than that trait, thief has incredibly limited access to condition removal.
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Yes, guardian has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities. Guess what other class has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities? Oh! It’s the mesmer! If you’re not willing to take traits and utilities on mesmer to remove conditions, then you’re not allowed to go on about how guardians have all these great traits and utilities too.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Same as guardian. Yes, warrior has some strong condition removal traits (and by some, I mean one: cleansing ire, which comes with significant downsides). Warrior also has some strong removal utilities. Again though, you’re talking about all these traits and utilities on warrior while at the same time refusing to take the traits and utilities that mesmer has to accomplish the same goal.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
Yes, engineers have 1 elixir that converts conditions to boons. They also have some decent traits that remove conditions, and healing turret removes a lot of conditions too. As before, they have to take those utilities or use those traits to remove conditions.
I hope you’re seeing a pattern here. What you’re doing would be the equivalent of playing a warrior without cleansing ire, and then complaining on the forums about how you have no access to condition removal. Mesmer has massive amounts of condition removal access…often piggybacking on top of boon strip just for kicks. The fact that you refuse to take those options isn’t the fault of the devs or anyone else, but a personal problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
You missed three things:
1.About elem,master and minor trait in water gives you cond-free elem /o\+ most use 1-2 cantrips which gives regen→cond removal ute.
2.thieves shadow embrace→it makes every stealth skill a condi removal,the 3 sec is not important,everytime thief is gone to stealth,he lose condition,the shadow refugee with it is a huge condi removal skill,and add shadowstep with 3 condi clear,that is one condi free thief dont you think?
3. The most important thing you missed,is that I’ve wrote,RELIABLE,which means,skills and/or traits that actually do somthing effectively and not destroying half build for it.
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
So what you’re saying is that you don’t like having to use traits and utilities to get condition removal. I suppose I’m fine with this, but now you have to apply that same logic to everyone else too.
Look at other proffesions,
Right, lets take a look.
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Necro definitely has a lot of inherent removals on their skills, but most are actually transfers requiring a target. This is both good and bad of course, but I’ll just say that necro has a lot of removal.
Elem-same as necro.
This is not even close to accurate. Eles will have generally only 1 skill on their weapons that removes conditions. All other removal is added by traits and utilities. Most of these traits are at the master and grandmaster level, so they’re not exactly easy to pick up…which is why the vast majority of ele builds for PvP go 30 into water and arcane.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Removing 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? Don’t get me wrong, the trait is quite decent, but calling it the best condie removal in the game is just extraordinarily false. 1 removal every 3 seconds will remove conditions steadily if they are applied steadily, and will fail tremendously if they’re applied as burst, which is how you kill thieves. Additionally, it’s in the shadow arts traitline, which forces the thief to sacrifice offense. Other than that trait, thief has incredibly limited access to condition removal.
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Yes, guardian has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities. Guess what other class has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities? Oh! It’s the mesmer! If you’re not willing to take traits and utilities on mesmer to remove conditions, then you’re not allowed to go on about how guardians have all these great traits and utilities too.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Same as guardian. Yes, warrior has some strong condition removal traits (and by some, I mean one: cleansing ire, which comes with significant downsides). Warrior also has some strong removal utilities. Again though, you’re talking about all these traits and utilities on warrior while at the same time refusing to take the traits and utilities that mesmer has to accomplish the same goal.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
Yes, engineers have 1 elixir that converts conditions to boons. They also have some decent traits that remove conditions, and healing turret removes a lot of conditions too. As before, they have to take those utilities or use those traits to remove conditions.
I hope you’re seeing a pattern here. What you’re doing would be the equivalent of playing a warrior without cleansing ire, and then complaining on the forums about how you have no access to condition removal. Mesmer has massive amounts of condition removal access…often piggybacking on top of boon strip just for kicks. The fact that you refuse to take those options isn’t the fault of the devs or anyone else, but a personal problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
snip (too long)
1. its master trait one wich cures 1 condi when attuning to water,the minor trait just heals , doesnt remove condis, and the condi remove on regen is as fay said a gm trait
reliable way of condi cleansee: menders purity, or the cleansee mantra, or hell even both
4x instant condi removal, whats not reliable on that
8 condis if u take both
and u can either take blink, decoy , mantra, or blink mantra portal
build doesnt get destroyed, move on
That is looking good on text,but not in game.Condi removal shatter not reliable,mantras require..well..mantras,and mender purity is the most effecient with mantras mastery which is losing a really strong grandmaster trait.I dont see any reliable builds using glamour traits and the torch is really not reliable(im talking about the gokitten image) but stull our most decent non-ute condi removal.
So what you’re saying is that you don’t like having to use traits and utilities to get condition removal. I suppose I’m fine with this, but now you have to apply that same logic to everyone else too.
Look at other proffesions,
Right, lets take a look.
Necro-immense condi removal capabilty.
Necro definitely has a lot of inherent removals on their skills, but most are actually transfers requiring a target. This is both good and bad of course, but I’ll just say that necro has a lot of removal.
Elem-same as necro.
This is not even close to accurate. Eles will have generally only 1 skill on their weapons that removes conditions. All other removal is added by traits and utilities. Most of these traits are at the master and grandmaster level, so they’re not exactly easy to pick up…which is why the vast majority of ele builds for PvP go 30 into water and arcane.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Removing 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? Don’t get me wrong, the trait is quite decent, but calling it the best condie removal in the game is just extraordinarily false. 1 removal every 3 seconds will remove conditions steadily if they are applied steadily, and will fail tremendously if they’re applied as burst, which is how you kill thieves. Additionally, it’s in the shadow arts traitline, which forces the thief to sacrifice offense. Other than that trait, thief has incredibly limited access to condition removal.
Guardian-lots of condi removal traits and reliable ones aswell.Same for ute.
Yes, guardian has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities. Guess what other class has a lot of condition removal traits and utilities? Oh! It’s the mesmer! If you’re not willing to take traits and utilities on mesmer to remove conditions, then you’re not allowed to go on about how guardians have all these great traits and utilities too.
Warrior-zerk stance,cleanisng ire,shake it off and some traits i think.
Same as guardian. Yes, warrior has some strong condition removal traits (and by some, I mean one: cleansing ire, which comes with significant downsides). Warrior also has some strong removal utilities. Again though, you’re talking about all these traits and utilities on warrior while at the same time refusing to take the traits and utilities that mesmer has to accomplish the same goal.
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
Yes, engineers have 1 elixir that converts conditions to boons. They also have some decent traits that remove conditions, and healing turret removes a lot of conditions too. As before, they have to take those utilities or use those traits to remove conditions.
I hope you’re seeing a pattern here. What you’re doing would be the equivalent of playing a warrior without cleansing ire, and then complaining on the forums about how you have no access to condition removal. Mesmer has massive amounts of condition removal access…often piggybacking on top of boon strip just for kicks. The fact that you refuse to take those options isn’t the fault of the devs or anyone else, but a personal problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
snip (too long)
1. its master trait one wich cures 1 condi when attuning to water,the minor trait just heals , doesnt remove condis, and the condi remove on regen is as fay said a gm trait
reliable way of condi cleansee: menders purity, or the cleansee mantra, or hell even both
4x instant condi removal, whats not reliable on that
8 condis if u take both
and u can either take blink, decoy , mantra, or blink mantra portal
build doesnt get destroyed, move on
Again,you have to set FULL TRAIT TREE to get the mantras,and above all use another 2 for mender purity,this is like half of the build just for this condi cleanse combo…
Mantra of resolve does it well with torch trait combined,but yet again,using this mantra is not really the best,cause well it is a mantra,when it runs out you have to recharge it.We should get a proper condi cleanse.
who said u need to get the 3 charges trait, it does fine even without..
and there again, u say u dont want to break ur so awesome build, yet cant fight against condi builds, either adapt and manage fiting em, change ur build to be more resistent against em, or just keep on dieing…
and elite stealth is enuf to get 2 mantras charged…
(not only that, u can charge em anytime u r safe…)
i personally think nullfield is less reliable than mantra of resolve
You missed three things:
I doubt it, but let’s see what you think I missed.
1.About elem,master and minor trait in water gives you cond-free elem /o\+ most use 1-2 cantrips which gives regen->cond removal ute.
Ok, so a master and minor trait in water you say? So….cantrip mastery and…cleansing wave perhaps? Those two traits aren’t going to do anything. Instead, you need the trait to grant regen when using a cantrip, and then lastly the grandmaster trait to remove a condition when gaining regeneration. So to have a ‘condition free ele’, they’re forced to take 3 specific traits in water AND specific utilities. Not so easy is it?
If you took mender’s purity, mantra mastery, condition removal mantra, heal mantra, and pDisenchanter, you’ll be a ‘condition free mesmer’….and that takes less traits than it does for ele!
2.thieves shadow embrace->it makes every stealth skill a condi removal,the 3 sec is not important,everytime thief is gone to stealth,he lose condition,the shadow refugee with it is a huge condi removal skill,and add shadowstep with 3 condi clear,that is one condi free thief dont you think?
No, I don’t think so.
Shadowstep is on a 60 second cooldown. It’s a panic button, one that thief can use in an emergency that clears some conditions. It’s not a normal condition removal skill.
Shadow Refuge is a massively powerful defense skill with or without the trait for condition removal.
Yes, the trait means that every stealth removes conditions…1 condition. 2 conditions if the thief lets it last the full duration and is traited deep into shadow arts. As I said earlier, this is a slowly sustained condition removal. It does absolutely nothing against condition burst. Applying just 3 conditions forces the thief to stay in stealth for 6 seconds. That’s a long time for a couple of removals, especially if they’re ticking hard.
Overall, you’re wrong.
3. The most important thing you missed,is that I’ve wrote,RELIABLE,which means,skills and/or traits that actually do somthing effectively and not destroying half build for it.
No, I haven’t missed this at all.
Mender’s purity is massively reliable. Even with our longest cooldown heal (not counting the signet as it sucks) it provides 2 removals every 20 seconds, which is quite strong. Simply taking the mantra boosts that to 8 every 20 seconds, which is incredibly strong and reliable.
The removal mantra is another 4 removals ever 20 seconds (untraited even), that’s very strong and reliable.
The pDisenchanter is an enormous amount of removal and boon stripping on a very low cooldown…extremely strong and reliable.
Shattered conditions is an incredibly strong trait if you build around having those 30 points in inspiration to remove conditions (similar to how eles are forced 30 points into water…). As long as you’re not horrible at shatter play, it’s a highly reliable trait.
I’ll say it again: Mesmers have access to many strong and reliable traits and utilities, that often require the same or even less investment as other classes. You just don’t want to take them, and that’s a problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
You missed three things:
I doubt it, but let’s see what you think I missed.
1.About elem,master and minor trait in water gives you cond-free elem /o\+ most use 1-2 cantrips which gives regen->cond removal ute.
Ok, so a master and minor trait in water you say? So….cantrip mastery and…cleansing wave perhaps? Those two traits aren’t going to do anything. Instead, you need the trait to grant regen when using a cantrip, and then lastly the grandmaster trait to remove a condition when gaining regeneration. So to have a ‘condition free ele’, they’re forced to take 3 specific traits in water AND specific utilities. Not so easy is it?
If you took mender’s purity, mantra mastery, condition removal mantra, heal mantra, and pDisenchanter, you’ll be a ‘condition free mesmer’….and that takes less traits than it does for ele!
2.thieves shadow embrace->it makes every stealth skill a condi removal,the 3 sec is not important,everytime thief is gone to stealth,he lose condition,the shadow refugee with it is a huge condi removal skill,and add shadowstep with 3 condi clear,that is one condi free thief dont you think?
No, I don’t think so.
Shadowstep is on a 60 second cooldown. It’s a panic button, one that thief can use in an emergency that clears some conditions. It’s not a normal condition removal skill.
Shadow Refuge is a massively powerful defense skill with or without the trait for condition removal.
Yes, the trait means that every stealth removes conditions…1 condition. 2 conditions if the thief lets it last the full duration and is traited deep into shadow arts. As I said earlier, this is a slowly sustained condition removal. It does absolutely nothing against condition burst. Applying just 3 conditions forces the thief to stay in stealth for 6 seconds. That’s a long time for a couple of removals, especially if they’re ticking hard.
Overall, you’re wrong.
3. The most important thing you missed,is that I’ve wrote,RELIABLE,which means,skills and/or traits that actually do somthing effectively and not destroying half build for it.
No, I haven’t missed this at all.
Mender’s purity is massively reliable. Even with our longest cooldown heal (not counting the signet as it sucks) it provides 2 removals every 20 seconds, which is quite strong. Simply taking the mantra boosts that to 8 every 20 seconds, which is incredibly strong and reliable.
The removal mantra is another 4 removals ever 20 seconds (untraited even), that’s very strong and reliable.
The pDisenchanter is an enormous amount of removal and boon stripping on a very low cooldown…extremely strong and reliable.
Shattered conditions is an incredibly strong trait if you build around having those 30 points in inspiration to remove conditions (similar to how eles are forced 30 points into water…). As long as you’re not horrible at shatter play, it’s a highly reliable trait.
I’ll say it again: Mesmers have access to many strong and reliable traits and utilities, that often require the same or even less investment as other classes. You just don’t want to take them, and that’s a problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
pdisenchanter isnt rly reliable tbh.. its just like necros removals, requires enemy to get hit
You missed three things:
I doubt it, but let’s see what you think I missed.
1.About elem,master and minor trait in water gives you cond-free elem /o\+ most use 1-2 cantrips which gives regen->cond removal ute.
Ok, so a master and minor trait in water you say? So….cantrip mastery and…cleansing wave perhaps? Those two traits aren’t going to do anything. Instead, you need the trait to grant regen when using a cantrip, and then lastly the grandmaster trait to remove a condition when gaining regeneration. So to have a ‘condition free ele’, they’re forced to take 3 specific traits in water AND specific utilities. Not so easy is it?
If you took mender’s purity, mantra mastery, condition removal mantra, heal mantra, and pDisenchanter, you’ll be a ‘condition free mesmer’….and that takes less traits than it does for ele!
2.thieves shadow embrace->it makes every stealth skill a condi removal,the 3 sec is not important,everytime thief is gone to stealth,he lose condition,the shadow refugee with it is a huge condi removal skill,and add shadowstep with 3 condi clear,that is one condi free thief dont you think?
No, I don’t think so.
Shadowstep is on a 60 second cooldown. It’s a panic button, one that thief can use in an emergency that clears some conditions. It’s not a normal condition removal skill.
Shadow Refuge is a massively powerful defense skill with or without the trait for condition removal.
Yes, the trait means that every stealth removes conditions…1 condition. 2 conditions if the thief lets it last the full duration and is traited deep into shadow arts. As I said earlier, this is a slowly sustained condition removal. It does absolutely nothing against condition burst. Applying just 3 conditions forces the thief to stay in stealth for 6 seconds. That’s a long time for a couple of removals, especially if they’re ticking hard.
Overall, you’re wrong.
3. The most important thing you missed,is that I’ve wrote,RELIABLE,which means,skills and/or traits that actually do somthing effectively and not destroying half build for it.
No, I haven’t missed this at all.
Mender’s purity is massively reliable. Even with our longest cooldown heal (not counting the signet as it sucks) it provides 2 removals every 20 seconds, which is quite strong. Simply taking the mantra boosts that to 8 every 20 seconds, which is incredibly strong and reliable.
The removal mantra is another 4 removals ever 20 seconds (untraited even), that’s very strong and reliable.
The pDisenchanter is an enormous amount of removal and boon stripping on a very low cooldown…extremely strong and reliable.
Shattered conditions is an incredibly strong trait if you build around having those 30 points in inspiration to remove conditions (similar to how eles are forced 30 points into water…). As long as you’re not horrible at shatter play, it’s a highly reliable trait.
I’ll say it again: Mesmers have access to many strong and reliable traits and utilities, that often require the same or even less investment as other classes. You just don’t want to take them, and that’s a problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
Pyro,wtf…since when projectile depended thing is reliable?! not Image and certainly not dischanter.
How can you say that in order to be a cond free mesmer you need less speccing than ele..you just said it yourself you get all ute on cond removal that does only cond removal while elm cond removals bring alot more to the table rather than just cond removal.
I played thief 2nd to mesmer(about 1.5k hours) and im happy to say that shadow embrace trait just anti condi heavier specs.I can kill with it the meta p/d thief at ease,so is condimancers you just c&d to clear it pretty much easly.Shadowstep is escape,but escape from what? sure it is escapes from dmg spike,but when you are overwhelm with conditions,you will do that escape for this purpose.Im not saying that this skill is amazing condi removal,it just add up to what I have already said before.
In conclusion,to my understandings,you say that elem are less able to condi cleanse than mesmers,and mesmers shouldnt get small buff to condi cleanse?
(edited by Sandrox.9524)
You missed three things:
I doubt it, but let’s see what you think I missed.
1.About elem,master and minor trait in water gives you cond-free elem /o\+ most use 1-2 cantrips which gives regen->cond removal ute.
Ok, so a master and minor trait in water you say? So….cantrip mastery and…cleansing wave perhaps? Those two traits aren’t going to do anything. Instead, you need the trait to grant regen when using a cantrip, and then lastly the grandmaster trait to remove a condition when gaining regeneration. So to have a ‘condition free ele’, they’re forced to take 3 specific traits in water AND specific utilities. Not so easy is it?
If you took mender’s purity, mantra mastery, condition removal mantra, heal mantra, and pDisenchanter, you’ll be a ‘condition free mesmer’….and that takes less traits than it does for ele!
2.thieves shadow embrace->it makes every stealth skill a condi removal,the 3 sec is not important,everytime thief is gone to stealth,he lose condition,the shadow refugee with it is a huge condi removal skill,and add shadowstep with 3 condi clear,that is one condi free thief dont you think?
No, I don’t think so.
Shadowstep is on a 60 second cooldown. It’s a panic button, one that thief can use in an emergency that clears some conditions. It’s not a normal condition removal skill.
Shadow Refuge is a massively powerful defense skill with or without the trait for condition removal.
Yes, the trait means that every stealth removes conditions…1 condition. 2 conditions if the thief lets it last the full duration and is traited deep into shadow arts. As I said earlier, this is a slowly sustained condition removal. It does absolutely nothing against condition burst. Applying just 3 conditions forces the thief to stay in stealth for 6 seconds. That’s a long time for a couple of removals, especially if they’re ticking hard.
Overall, you’re wrong.
3. The most important thing you missed,is that I’ve wrote,RELIABLE,which means,skills and/or traits that actually do somthing effectively and not destroying half build for it.
No, I haven’t missed this at all.
Mender’s purity is massively reliable. Even with our longest cooldown heal (not counting the signet as it sucks) it provides 2 removals every 20 seconds, which is quite strong. Simply taking the mantra boosts that to 8 every 20 seconds, which is incredibly strong and reliable.
The removal mantra is another 4 removals ever 20 seconds (untraited even), that’s very strong and reliable.
The pDisenchanter is an enormous amount of removal and boon stripping on a very low cooldown…extremely strong and reliable.
Shattered conditions is an incredibly strong trait if you build around having those 30 points in inspiration to remove conditions (similar to how eles are forced 30 points into water…). As long as you’re not horrible at shatter play, it’s a highly reliable trait.
I’ll say it again: Mesmers have access to many strong and reliable traits and utilities, that often require the same or even less investment as other classes. You just don’t want to take them, and that’s a problem that you’ll just have to deal with.
Pyro,wtf…since when projectile depended thing is reliable?! not Image and certainly not dischanter.
How can you say that in order to be a cond free mesmer you need less speccing than ele..you just said it yourself you get all ute on cond removal that does only cond removal while elm cond removals bring alot more to the table rather than just cond removal.I played thief 2nd to mesmer(about 1.5k hours) and im happy to say that shadow embrace trait just anti condi heavier specs.I can kill with it the meta p/d thief at ease,so is condimancers you just c&d to clear it pretty much easly.Shadowstep is escape,but escape from what? sure it is escapes from dmg spike,but when you are overwhelm with conditions,you will do that escape for this purpose.Im not saying that this skill is amazing condi removal,it just add up to what I have already said before.
In conclusion,to my understandings,you say that elem are less able to condi cleanse than mesmers,and mesmers shouldnt get small buff to condi cleanse?
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
Engineer-only class which I really dont know apart from they have a very good cond-to-boons converter skill.
Engineer can set healing turret and overload it, this will remove 2 conditions.
thief-basic trait that possibly give the best condi removal in game?(shadow embrace)
Removing 1 condition every 3 seconds while in stealth? Don’t get me wrong, the trait is quite decent, but calling it the best condie removal in the game is just extraordinarily false. 1 removal every 3 seconds will remove conditions steadily if they are applied steadily, and will fail tremendously if they’re applied as burst, which is how you kill thieves. Additionally, it’s in the shadow arts traitline, which forces the thief to sacrifice offense. Other than that trait, thief has incredibly limited access to condition removal.
Thief has IV Shadow’s Embrace which will instantly remove 1 condition upon entering stealth (which as a thief you do quite often, via cloak and dagger or black powder followed by a heartseeker).
Thief can also use sword and dagger, than 2nd attack is Infiltrator’s Strike - Infiltrator’s Return which will remove 1 condition.
As heals we have Hide in Shadows which cures burning, poison and bleeding (or other conditions if used under Shadows Embrace and Withdraw which will cure immobilized, chilled and crippled.
As utilities we have Shadowstep which cures 3 conditions.
Lack of condition removal together with dependency on certain runes for +25% movement speed (or focus as off-hand) is what keeps me from playing a Mesmer.
I often thought that this is a great class and tried to create a build that would satisfy me, but I just cannot find a shatter build with condition removal.
Shattered Conditions would be perfect for a shatter Mesmer, but you sacrifice too much damage to get it.
Would be great if A-Net would make Cleansing Conflagration work like Shadows Embrace.
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
I agree with you,tho,those skills you mentioned,without mentioning feast on condition heal skill,gives you more than just clear conditions,much more.On the other hand,same mesmer situation,they have that skill called Arcane thivery,a kitten utility?,which necro have every 8s? on weapons slot skill and even stronger(all conds are transfered instead of just 3).give me that and we done.The boon steal is really subpar to the 8s cd? staff #4.Not to mention how buggy is AT.Next up is kitten colldown Null-Field it is a nice skill that I agree,better than necro staff #4 in group play. but when you solo roam it is just not reliable cause of the condi spam.
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
I agree with you,tho,those skills you mentioned,without mentioning feast on condition heal skill,gives you more than just clear conditions,much more.On the other hand,same mesmer situation,they have that skill called Arcane thivery,a kitten utility?,which necro have every 8s? on weapons slot skill and even stronger(all conds are transfered instead of just 3).give me that and we done.The boon steal is really subpar to the 8s cd? staff #4.Not to mention how buggy is AT.Next up is kitten colldown Null-Field it is a nice skill that I agree,better than necro staff #4 in group play. but when you solo roam it is just not reliable cause of the condi spam.
in other hand u got pretty high incombat mobility, stealth, tons of interrupts, tons of ways to avoid dmg taken, good sustained ranged dmg(gs), mediocore condi cleansee if u want to( menders purity, or mantra of resolve (or both), nullfield) , etc..
they r both different proffessions good at different stuff..
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
I agree with you,tho,those skills you mentioned,without mentioning feast on condition heal skill,gives you more than just clear conditions,much more.On the other hand,same mesmer situation,they have that skill called Arcane thivery,a kitten utility?,which necro have every 8s? on weapons slot skill and even stronger(all conds are transfered instead of just 3).give me that and we done.The boon steal is really subpar to the 8s cd? staff #4.Not to mention how buggy is AT.Next up is kitten colldown Null-Field it is a nice skill that I agree,better than necro staff #4 in group play. but when you solo roam it is just not reliable cause of the condi spam.
in other hand u got pretty high incombat mobility, stealth, tons of interrupts, tons of ways to avoid dmg taken, good sustained ranged dmg(gs), mediocore condi cleansee if u want to( menders purity, or mantra of resolve (or both), nullfield) , etc..
they r both different proffessions good at different stuff..
And necro have 3 health pools and fears.
Comparing now different mechanics,is pointless.Every proffesion need to have a way dealing condition spam.If not, the class is broken.Now I dont say mesmer have no way to deal conditions,it dosnt have enough ways to do so.Simple tweak should fix that problem.
And you just got my point EXCATLY.You just said some things that can never be together,you have 3 ute spots,you want null field and resolve,which leaves you one thing,blink or decoy(most of the cases is those two)somtimes portal and somtimes mantra of distraction.
so it is either we have stealth or mobility or inturpt,not all those 3.I play with no condi cleanse at all,in pvp and wvw,and I have all the things you mentioned part of the cond cleanse.Should I spec for cond cleanse? I will lose all of them.And sure,you can still get like s/s and have one inturpt,or get torch and have 1 steatlh skill or why not lets us be sw/sw-sw/t or what ever,and have both stealth and inturpt on WITH cond cleanses!
But then you lose the other thing you said,sustained range dmg(gs) and less mobility and defense(staff)
While necros have all in one package(fears,sustain range dmg ,3 health pools and superior condi cleanse and above all,they dont need to tweak the build for it.)
(edited by Sandrox.9524)
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
I agree with you,tho,those skills you mentioned,without mentioning feast on condition heal skill,gives you more than just clear conditions,much more.On the other hand,same mesmer situation,they have that skill called Arcane thivery,a kitten utility?,which necro have every 8s? on weapons slot skill and even stronger(all conds are transfered instead of just 3).give me that and we done.The boon steal is really subpar to the 8s cd? staff #4.Not to mention how buggy is AT.Next up is kitten colldown Null-Field it is a nice skill that I agree,better than necro staff #4 in group play. but when you solo roam it is just not reliable cause of the condi spam.
in other hand u got pretty high incombat mobility, stealth, tons of interrupts, tons of ways to avoid dmg taken, good sustained ranged dmg(gs), mediocore condi cleansee if u want to( menders purity, or mantra of resolve (or both), nullfield) , etc..
they r both different proffessions good at different stuff..
And necro have 3 health pools and fears.
Comparing now different mechanics,is pointless.Every proffesion need to have a way dealing condition spam.If not, the class is broken.Now I dont say mesmer have no way to deal conditions,it dosnt have enough ways to do so.Simple tweak should fix that problem.And you just got my point EXCATLY.You just said some things that can never be together,you have 3 ute spots,you want null field and resolve,which leaves you one thing,blink or decoy(most of the cases is those two)somtimes portal and somtimes mantra of distraction.
so it is either we have stealth or mobility or inturpt,not all those 3.I play with no condi cleanse at all,in pvp and wvw,and I have all the things you mentioned part of the cond cleanse.Should I spec for cond cleanse? I will lose all of them.And sure,you can still get like s/s and have one inturpt,or get torch and have 1 steatlh skill or why not lets us be sw/sw-sw/t or what ever,and have both stealth and inturpt on WITH cond cleanses!
But then you lose the other thing you said,sustained range dmg(gs) and less mobility and defense(staff)While necros have all in one package(fears,sustain range dmg ,3 health pools and superior condi cleanse and above all,they dont need to tweak the build for it.)
that 2 healthpool argument is the worst. did u ever play necro? this argument is just soo invalid… play a necro and u will notice why..
+ cant u just take blink, mantra, decoy or blink mantra portal? is it that difficult? if u dont wanna die to condis, get better at avoiding getting hit… and fyi, this game isnt balanced around 1v1, everything in this game tells u that its AT LEAST balanced around 2v2 or more.
this game isnt just a solo game(u can solo if u want, u just gonna have a harder time).
Whatever, at this point I’m done making arguments. I will link this post though:
I detail my specific advice with dealing with conditions in that post. Following that advice I don’t have trouble with conditions when applied by any less than 3 players at the same time, and generally more than that. If you play in a skillful manner, you will find the same to be true for yourself.
I read the first few posts and the last few. Bravo Fay.
I’m running Shatter Conditions and Mender’s Purity ALONG with Arcane Thievery. I never have issues with conditions unless I’m being ganged up on, and even then, I have enough condi removal to make a legit escape route.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
In a sense Mesmer condition removal is almost too strong (on full mantras, you’ll never die to anything), however we are in the tragicomic position where this can both be true and still be useless because those specs are not tourney-viable.
I’ll say again that the best change they could possibly do for the class instead of fiddling with non-viable traits is to make Portal a class mechanic. A Mesmer with just one removal skill can get by pretty well.
I think builds that trait into Inspiration are tourney viable. It’s one of my favorite lines. I just think people are lazy and without the desire to work on making interesting builds effective.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
I think builds that trait into Inspiration are tourney viable. It’s one of my favorite lines. I just think people are lazy and without the desire to work on making interesting builds effective.
I DO NOT DOUBT THAT
My point is we could get some weaker verison of condition removal in different traits lines for different builds and weapon sets.
Like what they did to engi AED or ele fire line trait"Burning Fire"(i know those stuff are still not viable for actual pvp build but a good direction I’d say )
Staying with same build is for sure lazy and boring . But you have to change your build almost completely for inspiration trait line or phantasmal disenchanter. It’s not fun neither.
Let’s say in actual pvp you change your build to counter engi or necro then you find out that’s SD engi or power necro you get kittened pretty hard or your build just ruin their condition builds’ fun completely .Do we really think this is a good way ?
Or anet could change those condition apply traits(many traits like engi IP which works with any random attack.) then I’m fine with limitation of condition removal. It also could add more teamwork space .But for now ,that’s not the case.
u were saying that necro got ’tons’of reliable condi removal, dagger 4 and staff 4 need targets…
I agree with you,tho,those skills you mentioned,without mentioning feast on condition heal skill,gives you more than just clear conditions,much more.On the other hand,same mesmer situation,they have that skill called Arcane thivery,a kitten utility?,which necro have every 8s? on weapons slot skill and even stronger(all conds are transfered instead of just 3).give me that and we done.The boon steal is really subpar to the 8s cd? staff #4.Not to mention how buggy is AT.Next up is kitten colldown Null-Field it is a nice skill that I agree,better than necro staff #4 in group play. but when you solo roam it is just not reliable cause of the condi spam.
in other hand u got pretty high incombat mobility, stealth, tons of interrupts, tons of ways to avoid dmg taken, good sustained ranged dmg(gs), mediocore condi cleansee if u want to( menders purity, or mantra of resolve (or both), nullfield) , etc..
they r both different proffessions good at different stuff..
And necro have 3 health pools and fears.
Comparing now different mechanics,is pointless.Every proffesion need to have a way dealing condition spam.If not, the class is broken.Now I dont say mesmer have no way to deal conditions,it dosnt have enough ways to do so.Simple tweak should fix that problem.And you just got my point EXCATLY.You just said some things that can never be together,you have 3 ute spots,you want null field and resolve,which leaves you one thing,blink or decoy(most of the cases is those two)somtimes portal and somtimes mantra of distraction.
so it is either we have stealth or mobility or inturpt,not all those 3.I play with no condi cleanse at all,in pvp and wvw,and I have all the things you mentioned part of the cond cleanse.Should I spec for cond cleanse? I will lose all of them.And sure,you can still get like s/s and have one inturpt,or get torch and have 1 steatlh skill or why not lets us be sw/sw-sw/t or what ever,and have both stealth and inturpt on WITH cond cleanses!
But then you lose the other thing you said,sustained range dmg(gs) and less mobility and defense(staff)While necros have all in one package(fears,sustain range dmg ,3 health pools and superior condi cleanse and above all,they dont need to tweak the build for it.)
that 2 healthpool argument is the worst. did u ever play necro? this argument is just soo invalid… play a necro and u will notice why..
+ cant u just take blink, mantra, decoy or blink mantra portal? is it that difficult? if u dont wanna die to condis, get better at avoiding getting hit… and fyi, this game isnt balanced around 1v1, everything in this game tells u that its AT LEAST balanced around 2v2 or more.
this game isnt just a solo game(u can solo if u want, u just gonna have a harder time).
Hmm? I play necro alot and 2 health pool is so awesome, with spectral build I can have like 4 health pool even.It makes me wonder if you ever played the game! cause DS is another health pool for sure,so at least 2 health pool.The problem of necros is mobility,which also can be take care of with the wurm or spectral walk.
Whatever, at this point I’m done making arguments. I will link this post though:
I detail my specific advice with dealing with conditions in that post. Following that advice I don’t have trouble with conditions when applied by any less than 3 players at the same time, and generally more than that. If you play in a skillful manner, you will find the same to be true for yourself.
I dont argue about that mesmer can remove cond efficiently,I argue that in order to do so you need to play a specific build like you mentioned in the post,to have all the things you said to get spammable condi removal, you need at least 4/6/2/0/0
+losing all usefull ute.I just cant see it,call me a noob,tell me l2p all you want,but I am running shatter and lockdown build since beta without using any other build(except one time I tried pu preplex condi for a week to understand the mechanic of it) and to me I think Anet just dont give a shaiet kitten on my type of builds.(which are very common builds).
you need at least 4/6/2/0/0 +losing all usefull ute.
If you drew that conclusion from my post, you very obviously did not read the post.
I’m not seeing the argument here. I think Mesmers have various consistent and reliable ways to remove conditions if that’s something you worry about.
Your problem might be that you’re stuck using Decoy/Blink/S.Domination/Portal and/or you just have to trait 4 for Deceptive Evasion.
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
you need at least 4/6/2/0/0 +losing all usefull ute.
If you drew that conclusion from my post, you very obviously did not read the post.
Nope,I did read it all,but since dischanter is not reliable condi cleanser(long cast time,the AI need to actually hits somthing and need to be placed within certain range)
and torch skill is a mediocre condi cleanse(cause of Image basically)to actually have spammable condi removal you need all.
Used the combination of Sw/T(with the torch trait) with mantra of resolve and recovery using menders purity combo,and it is really good at clearing condis,tho for me at least,controlling too many mantras is very tricky cause of the channel times.But then again I gave my build 4/6/2/0/0 just for cleansing.I still havent see a mesmer video/streamer (and i’ve seen alot) that is not PU troll build who deal well against heavy condi dealers.
Dont get me wrong again,I manage well against condi spammers with one condi cleanse and that awesome lemongrass food,somtimes even without any cond cleanse.It just bothering me that you are on disadventage,which is not related to skill,against heavy condi dealers.
I’m not seeing the argument here. I think Mesmers have various consistent and reliable ways to remove conditions if that’s something you worry about.
Your problem might be that you’re stuck using Decoy/Blink/S.Domination/Portal and/or you just have to trait 4 for Deceptive Evasion.
On the controray,if I already used 4 for DE,I wouldnt mind using menders purity with mantras since it “only” placing 4 more points.With the exception of shatter build.
Pyro,you know the typical shatter build we all love,what tweak can you do to it,that would help that build manage condis,and eya you can switch the awesome trait that rip boons on shatter for the torch thing,and yes you can also replace one of our cruical escapes for mantra of reslove,but it will lose the shatter main role and his survivability.
Nope,I did read it all,but since dischanter is not reliable condi cleanser(long cast time,the AI need to actually hits somthing and need to be placed within certain range)
and torch skill is a mediocre condi cleanse(cause of Image basically)to actually have spammable condi removal you need all.
As it so happens, you’re wrong. The disenchanter is highly reliable given that you have enough skill to use it. Once you cast it, it removes conditions at an incredibly high rate. The torch skills are fantastically reliable, because they remove conditions simply on cast. If the iMage also manages to hit something, it removes even more (which is more of a side benefit, not a main feature).
Pyro,you know the typical shatter build we all love,what tweak can you do to it,that would help that build manage condis,and eya you can switch the awesome trait that rip boons on shatter for the torch thing,and yes you can also replace one of our cruical escapes for mantra of reslove,but it will lose the shatter main role and his survivability.
I take the condition removal mantra, that’s all. As it so happens, shatter builds have unbelievably high burst output, along with very strong active defense, good mobility, and lots of access to stunbreakers. A build that has all of that doesn’t get to have fantastic condition removal as well, because it shouldn’t need it. The condition removal mantra is all that you need given skilled play.
Nope,I did read it all,but since dischanter is not reliable condi cleanser(long cast time,the AI need to actually hits somthing and need to be placed within certain range)
and torch skill is a mediocre condi cleanse(cause of Image basically)to actually have spammable condi removal you need all.As it so happens, you’re wrong. The disenchanter is highly reliable given that you have enough skill to use it. Once you cast it, it removes conditions at an incredibly high rate. The torch skills are fantastically reliable, because they remove conditions simply on cast. If the iMage also manages to hit something, it removes even more (which is more of a side benefit, not a main feature).
I agree with you on the torch,havnt said that it is not reliable,only the image is.
dischanter is not though,you might wanna try fighting the most hard condi classes,like necros and engineers,which kills it right before it even spawned,or against p/d thief that even if I have two dischanters on would still spam condis on you.
Pyro,you know the typical shatter build we all love,what tweak can you do to it,that would help that build manage condis,and eya you can switch the awesome trait that rip boons on shatter for the torch thing,and yes you can also replace one of our cruical escapes for mantra of reslove,but it will lose the shatter main role and his survivability.
I take the condition removal mantra, that’s all. As it so happens, shatter builds have unbelievably high burst output, along with very strong active defense, good mobility, and lots of access to stunbreakers. A build that has all of that doesn’t get to have fantastic condition removal as well, because it shouldn’t need it. The condition removal mantra is all that you need given skilled play.
I know that skilled player can kill condi heavy without any condi removals,I already said,that I killed them many times(not saying im skilled or anything but I am sure I have more skill than some of the players I faced) but skills aside,ob even grounds,condi heavy and especially those dire/preplex ppl are very hard to beat,while we are “easy” pray to them.
I don’t get the problem. We have reliable way to remove conditions.
If you use Mender’s Purity and Mantra of Recovery, you can get 4-6 condition remover with a single healing skill. If you don’t want to use the trait, use Mantra of Resolve.
As for Disenchanter, this thing is a beast. I mainly use it to counter bunkers and booners and the condi removal is a plus.
Stop thinking you absolutely need DE and Decoy to play a mesmer is the first step.
I agree with you on the torch,havnt said that it is not reliable,only the image is.
dischanter is not though,you might wanna try fighting the most hard condi classes,like necros and engineers,which kills it right before it even spawned,or against p/d thief that even if I have two dischanters on would still spam condis on you.
You really think I haven’t fought top notch engineers, necromancers, and p/d thieves? The pDisenchanter works just spectacularly as long as you don’t just spam it on cooldown and hope it does something.
I know that skilled player can kill condi heavy without any condi removals,I already said,that I killed them many times(not saying im skilled or anything but I am sure I have more skill than some of the players I faced) but skills aside,ob even grounds,condi heavy and especially those dire/preplex ppl are very hard to beat,while we are “easy” pray to them.
And so this brings it back to the complaint that I noted earlier. “I want better condition removal because the one build I like playing doesn’t faceroll every other build in the game.” This is not a valid complaint, sorry.
And so this brings it back to the complaint that I noted earlier. “I want better condition removal because the one build I like playing doesn’t faceroll every other build in the game.” This is not a valid complaint, sorry.
+1
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
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