Guild Wars 2

According to this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Mesmer-s-Bugged-Skills-Fixes-on-The-Way

staff clones will be affected by illusionary elasticity after the (probably) 18th of march patch. That, to me, would include making staff clones’ “wind of chaos” bounce at all, like the mesmer ones, and on top add one additional bounce from the trait.

Do you read it the same way? If yes, this change would open some very interesting staff/condi builds…any ideas on top of your heads?

Yes that’s how it reads. We’ll see a lot of folks trying out builds with Staff and IE. We’ll finally see how powerful staff condi builds can really be. No one really knows, which is exciting to think about, but in the end I hope it doesn’t end up being OP.

Adding to that – in PvP I occasionally play a 0/30/20/0/20 build for primarily dueling/soloq with Staff/Sc-P (with IE). Obviously this bug fix will buff it considerably.

I have been using the linked build since the beginning on my mesmer. Not the most effective build as it is now, but it is very fun to play. I have tried a lot of other specs, but I always fall back on this one.
It should be a lot better with the upcoming changes. Looking forward to such a patch! Hopefully clones will also stop having wildlife as their top priority targets some sunny day…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW7dlknpBtlpxNNcrNiY6BxFcIHKFYX2VShtdhA-zkBB0CLamqAIFtIasVTFRjVdDTHjIqOAACghO0hO0hO0m5Mn5Mn5MLFwkSjA-w

Im almost 100% positive this is going to make condi Mesmer OP. Bouncing staff clones combined with 8k torment every 10 secs? Yeah, something is getting nerfed…

But Im so hype for this change. An 0/30/20/0/20 hybrid build is already forming in my mind.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But Im so hype for this change. An 0/30/20/0/20 hybrid build is already forming in my mind.

Yeah that’s the build I play (mentioned above), but not hybrid in PvP of course. It’s the build I usually duel with, and have with you – the one you love to hate (chaotic conditions). This is the current WvW variant: chaotic conditions wvw. With the IE fix in mind, it looks pretty good especially with perplexity runes. You could go more hybrid, just switching some gear around.

It’ll be interesting to see what other builds people come up with. Could see other condition builds using staff/sc-t (dat extra bounce on iMage), where before taking IE wasn’t worth it for just the iMage and your personal WoC attacks, but now will be.

This fix certainly has the potential to wreck people in both PvP and WvW. PvP will experience more of the stark difference though – there’s going to be that much more condis flying around.

We ALWAYS think of similar builds!

And yeah, I was thinking of going full condition dmg, but I’m leaning heavily towards Sword/Pistol – Staff. Originally I wanted more crit chance/damage and Deceptive Evasion + Traited pistol + Phantasmal Fury but.. problem with that is that then I can’t trait the staff.

Right now I’m thinking maybe 0/20/30/0/20(Edited) may be more what I’m going for, I wanna work with Interrupts to gain might to boost my power/condition damage, I’m probably gonna use a gear spread similar to BlackDevil’s hybrid build..

There’s a couple things to remember though…

• All runes/sigils are getting tweaked in this same patch, including the ability to slot two sigils in two-handed weapons and sigils not sharing cooldowns (Fire+energy/ Energy+Hydromancy ftw!).

• All other classes are getting buffs/tweaks/fixes/balances in this same patch. If we’re getting this great fix, lord knows what other classes’ll get.

Thanks to my fantastic phone my post got deleted. I was saying that Invig was supposed to be bouncier-bounces. Also, MoDaze may get swapped with disenchanter or arcane thievery.. I like to have one slot flexible for different situations but.. The idea of a double-traited Blink AND P-retreat is hella tempting for wvw

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Im almost 100% positive this is going to make condi Mesmer OP. Bouncing staff clones combined with 8k torment every 10 secs? Yeah, something is getting nerfed…

But Im so hype for this change. An 0/30/20/0/20 hybrid build is already forming in my mind.

Meh. It’s just to easy to ignore staff clones and/or run away from them. Many classes just cleave away from them, and thieves control the ai attacks and thus just evade them. As for mesmer, sure a staff weilding mesmer can target a staff 2 clone, but it’s easy to tie up his dodge roll clones by placing your own clones next to him to eat the target. It’s strong on paper but when it comes to mechanics and gameplay, its so eaily outplayed its not funny.

@Boss: www you might be right-for spvp the first thing, that came to my mind was, what Chaos said. This is going to be OP. Theres a reason why the mesmer community wasnt crying that loud about staff clones’ attacks not bouncing. Enemies on bases cant ignore your staff clones so easily anymore. With clone on death traits, a condition build will be an even better point assaulter, than it is now; plus your teamfight ability will increase.

That being said, Ill definitly try a staff/GS hybrid build. Mirror blade has always been a great ability, combined with IE.

So … if you got 3 clones out and stay close to a target, you get buffs and the enemy 6 conditions per volley – neat :o

derbaer.1284:

@Boss: www you might be right-for spvp the first thing, that came to my mind was, what Chaos said. This is going to be OP. Theres a reason why the mesmer community wasnt crying that loud about staff clones’ attacks not bouncing. Enemies on bases cant ignore your staff clones so easily anymore. With clone on death traits, a condition build will be an even better point assaulter, than it is now; plus your teamfight ability will increase.

I’m not so convinced. Mesmer condition builds are ok far node assaulters because of their ability to force a 2v1, not because of their lightning fast kill speeds. However, a 0/20/30/0/20 build or 0/30/20/0/20 build is going to be sacrificing some survivability for this, and that’s going to make it worse at 2v1ing.

Additionally, all the standard counters that already exist to mesmer far node assaulting still apply. You’ll still be laughed at by an AR decap engie, a thief will still decap your home node and be back before you can follow them, and a tanky guardian will still take a long time to take down if they’re careful about condition management.

This change will mainly increase the potential power of mesmer condition builds in 1v1s and on far node assaulting/skirmishing against disorganized teams…a role in which it’s already very strong. It won’t really change the dynamic at all.

RE: WvW/PU condi
Actually, Jackums …. I think they’d be somewhat buffed and kinda nerfed. The extra Staff procs’ll help for condi, but that spec should also lose some of its potential condi hits from the nerf to clone-death Traits. I don’t keep a “hard count” on damage, but the logic seems right. /shrug

Here’s how I’m thinking…

The 20/20/30 condi PU build actually doesn’t even go into the condition damage line (illusions), Condi Mesmer going 0/20/30/0/20 are gaining 200 condition damage, potentially longer confusion procs, AND higher confusion uptime. The only defensive loss here is an untraited torch, which honestly isn’t that bad of a trade-off compared to the gain.

As far as PvP goes, look at all the people already crying about PU Mesmer. Most of the time the “solution,” crappy as it may be, is to just ignore them. With this buff that’s now impossible. A condi Mesmer now has access to constant Bleed/Burning/Torment/Confusion/Vulnerability and that’s not even considering Chaos Storm/Armor and weakness/cripple from clone deaths, also don’t forget that sigils are getting tweaked, so likely Hydromancy just for the chill as an extra cover-condition. And the thing is, none of this hits in a “burst” like it does with Necros and Engineers, its just a steady nonstop stream of death. You’re going to have to be a good player to beat a condition Mesmer, which means all the people who were crying about PU before -which is why it’s getting nerfed- are gonna turn into wet girls now.

(… No offense to any moistened women out there.)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Here’s how I’m thinking…

The 20/20/30 condi PU build actually doesn’t even go into the condition damage line (illusions), Condi Mesmer going 0/20/30/0/20 are gaining 200 condition damage, potentially longer confusion procs, AND higher confusion uptime. The only defensive loss here is an untraited torch, which honestly isn’t that bad of a trade-off compared to the gain.

As far as PvP goes, look at all the people already crying about PU Mesmer. Most of the time the “solution,” crappy as it may be, is to just ignore them. With this buff that’s now impossible. A condi Mesmer now has access to constant Bleed/Burning/Torment/Confusion/Vulnerability and that’s not even considering Chaos Storm/Armor and weakness/cripple from clone deaths, also don’t forget that sigils are getting tweaked, so likely Hydromancy just for the chill as an extra cover-condition. And the thing is, none of this hits in a “burst” like it does with Necros and Engineers, its just a steady nonstop stream of death. You’re going to have to be a good player to beat a condition Mesmer, which means all the people who were crying about PU before -which is why it’s getting nerfed- are gonna turn into wet girls now.

(… No offense to any moistened women out there.)

I agree with you for the most part, but when you account the Torch untraited in a blackwater build you have to remember that you are losing your condition removal.

So when going to the this build you will have to ditch 1 utility to have a condition removal. This will make you lose 1 Veil or Blink or you will be very vulnerable to conditions, you have to avoid them all or you are toasted.

So condition mesmer going to this build will not have so much access to stealth or they will have harder time when fighting conditions enemies.

Besides this, the new “Blackwater” builds will still have the same problem as the old Blackwater build, if the enemy decide to not fight you there is nothing you can do to stop him.

I’m not saying that the build could not be good, I’m using a similar build for a long time just saying that you need to have that in mind when you do the trade off.

That build (0/20/30/0/20) is my usual “go-to” for conditions. Or the classic 0/20/20/0/30 condi-shatter spec. Enemy conditions are assuredly the weakest point of either. I usually run Arc Thievery, although that can be swapped for the equivalent Mantra when needed.

EDIT: Although, I generally run (with 30 Chaos) CI instead of PU. Yeah, I lose the crazy amount of defensive buffs and stealth uptime, but CI helps keep punks locked in place so I can mangle their behinds. It works out for me, but mileage varies.

I wouldnt even consider taking PU in a tpvp condi build-with staff, high armor, decoy or blink, possibly torch your defense is plenty. Your staff attacks in meele range are really strong.
And being slow can be countered with clever use of portal. That skill alone can win matches for your team (not that I have mastered the skill, much to learn still…). But in my experience, you need to be able to 1v1 successfully when running portal, b/c chances are, noone will follow you through your exeunt-at least in soloQ. The changes will boost those, already quite good, capabilities.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Here’s how I’m thinking…

The 20/20/30 condi PU build actually doesn’t even go into the condition damage line (illusions), Condi Mesmer going 0/20/30/0/20 are gaining 200 condition damage, potentially longer confusion procs, AND higher confusion uptime. The only defensive loss here is an untraited torch, which honestly isn’t that bad of a trade-off compared to the gain.

As far as PvP goes, look at all the people already crying about PU Mesmer. Most of the time the “solution,” crappy as it may be, is to just ignore them. With this buff that’s now impossible. A condi Mesmer now has access to constant Bleed/Burning/Torment/Confusion/Vulnerability and that’s not even considering Chaos Storm/Armor and weakness/cripple from clone deaths, also don’t forget that sigils are getting tweaked, so likely Hydromancy just for the chill as an extra cover-condition. And the thing is, none of this hits in a “burst” like it does with Necros and Engineers, its just a steady nonstop stream of death. You’re going to have to be a good player to beat a condition Mesmer, which means all the people who were crying about PU before -which is why it’s getting nerfed- are gonna turn into wet girls now.

(… No offense to any moistened women out there.)

You’re getting too caught up in the little picture though. Take a step back and see what it actually changes.

Condition Mesmer is already one of the strongest 1v1 and 1vX builds in the game. All of these changes simply reinforce their strength in that particular nitch, but do nothing to address the other weaknesses they have.

Running this build means that you’ll be even more devastating in a normal 1v1. What does this mean? It means they’ll send a decap engie if you’re holding a point, and you won’t be able to scratch them. It means you’ll still have really low mobility, and a thief will out-manouver you around the map for recaps. It means you’ll be a bit stronger in team fights, but not much, since almost all of your teamfight damage will be from dissipations, not actual bounces due to the low life expectancy of clones in a fight.

You’re not gaining any more stopping power in the build, and you’re actually losing crippling dissipation, which makes more of a difference in overall fight control than you might think.

Overall, it just is a condie Mesmer variant that’s a bit more offensive, has a bit less control, and will effectively function exactly the same in a team environment.

We shall have to see. It also depends on the changes happening to other classes too. I’m pretty sure Decap Engie is gonna get hit with some sort of nerf, and I wouldn’t be surprised if thieves will as well. I should clarify though, I don’t think the build is gonna be OP in the respect that Warrior builds are supposedly OP, I meant people are goign to view it as OP way before analyzing it the way we would. Problem is PU Mesmer was never really too much of an issue if you know how to handle it, but many people don’t. A PU condi-Mesmer with more damage via confusion/staff clones is going to be a nightmare for most. It depends on just how much of a damage boost this potential new spec is going to get, and it feels like the damage output is gonna be massive. With the sigil buff you could make up for crippling with the hydro sigils or grenth runes, (oh gawd, I forgot about how dangerous doom is gonna be) so it comes down to how hindering that mobility is gonna be. (dat double-traited blink/phase retreat!)

“18. Illusionary Elasticity trait. (reported by Asuka Shikinami, Wiki)
Does not affect staff clones even though affects other clones.”
“18. Fixed on feature build if not on live.”

Did no one else think this might be a nerf to the rest of the bouncies instead of a buff to staff clones? I hope I’m being too cynical on that though.

Also I know some mesmers were going gs/staff shatter builds with IE anyways. It’s a bit more sustain and might/fury for those builds. Otherwise, I’m also not convinced that this will be that strong of a buff since 20 domination is a lot of good stuff. Will just have to wait and see for the entire patch.

Don’t forget a 0/20/10/20/20 with malicious sorcery. Illusionary counter on a six second cooldown is pretty juicy, and mender’s provides the condi removal.

If deceptive evasion is nerfed (re: no clone-death effects when additional clone is created), then there is actually a lot of new room for builds that don’t take DE, such as 0/0/30/20/20 or 10/0/20/20/20. And then, in the off off off chance that confusion is made more viable, there is the long-shot possibility of a confusion shatter build going 30 in illusions.

Anyway, long story short is that I’m looking forward to whatever creativity the changes provide. It’s a bit too bad that they’re all condi focused instead of direct damage, but still…

This looks like a job for… keenlam’s BoTM contest!

Bunda.2691:

Don’t forget a 0/20/10/20/20 with malicious sorcery. Illusionary counter on a six second cooldown is pretty juicy, and mender’s provides the condi removal.

If they actually fix the current recharge reduction issues with MS/IC, there are a couple scepter builds I have that haven’t got a lot of attention or exploration due to the bug. There are some nice potential builds possible with that bug fix alone.

So, MS/IC fix, IE fix … those are just two small examples, but, can we call this in some ways balance by bug fixing? I guess we’ll see how it pans out. At the very least, fixing bugs is obviously going to be opening up some nice build diversity (which is awesome and sad at the same time).

Most of all, I just want to see scepter projectiles … do something. Maybe illusionary elasticity lets them bounce to another enemy, maybe they explode for a small aoe, maybe they fill your opponent’s screen with butterflies. But something, please!

Hopefully PU sees a hefty nerf in exchange for this. PU condi mesmer wouldn’t do anything but spamming staff clones and hifing in stealth otherwise.

Also, staff autoattack probably needs a nerf, then.

Its going to be fun watching all the Pu mesmers who try using IE and accidentally reveal themselves with it.

This is nice, almost too good to be true.

In fact, I expect a nerf and MANY QQ posts after the patch about how condi Mesmer is OP.

But, it will only be OP in certain situations. Condi Mesmer will still be a step down from Necromancer/engineer in PvE. And I’m certain, since A NET seems to lack the ability to logically process a split in PvE vs pvp skills (although they have done it, they don’t do it often enough.

I’m very excited to play this Mesmer actually. Kill my staff clones and you will suffer conditions, keep them alive and you’ll still be under conditions. Now to just get condition ascended accessories!

Luckily for my own case, I started as a condi-mesmer. So I’ve already got the ascended Rabids in inventory. Might have to try out a 10/25/10/10/15 clonekill/condi once that change hits.

Just tested this, clones still don’t get the extra bounce. If it does, it will be huge!

(want to try it out in an PU 0 20 30 0 20 build)

When will the patch hit? Or didn’t this make the patch?

Well I might swap my scepter/pistol + staff build from a 0/30/25/0/15 to a 0/20/30/0/20 with Chaotic Interruption or just go 0/25/25/0/20 to keep Confusing Combatants. Should be interesting.

And i just tried it again… Now an actual patch was installed, so my hopes were up!

AND…… still not working! Clones still don’t get the extra bounce. It’s not in the notes either…. None of fixxes from the link in the 1st post seem to have been done according to the patchnotes:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-March-18-2014

The staff clones’ WoC are bouncing now!
But…their bounces are not affected by IE. This could be working as intended…

derbaer.1284:

The staff clones’ WoC are bouncing now!
But…their bounces are not affected by IE. This could be working as intended…

Staff clone WoC have always bounced once, like your own with IE untraited.

Note most of the bug fixes are slated for the “feature” build, which is forthcoming (see Tyler’s comments in the bug thread).

Well, this isn’t the “Feature” patch yet, we’ll have to wait

skcamow.3527:

derbaer.1284:

The staff clones’ WoC are bouncing now!
But…their bounces are not affected by IE. This could be working as intended…

Staff clone WoC have always bounced once, like your own with IE untraited.

Note most of the bug fixes are slated for the “feature” build, which is forthcoming (see Tyler’s comments in the bug thread).

Correct, it did already bounce once.

So when can we expect this “feature” build? (The other topic is such a wall-of-tekst, i couldn’t find it)

Here’s the bug thread with Tyler’s (now former Anet dev) comments: Tyler’s reply to mesmer bug post

The feature build has yet to be officially announced, but we do know it will be before June (saw that somewhere). I believe they are going to be releasing more information about that in the next two ready up episodes (aired Fridays on GW2’s twitch stream). They are currently scheduled for 3/21 and 3/28. On the last episode they hinted at some major updates coming in the next two episodes, so one can only imagine.

I hope they will change enough so that I can finally justify making (buying) a Bifrost. I’ve always wanted that weapon but I’ve never been able to convince myself it is worth the cost.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Here’s how I’m thinking…

The 20/20/30 condi PU build actually doesn’t even go into the condition damage line (illusions), Condi Mesmer going 0/20/30/0/20 are gaining 200 condition damage, potentially longer confusion procs, AND higher confusion uptime. The only defensive loss here is an untraited torch, which honestly isn’t that bad of a trade-off compared to the gain.

As far as PvP goes, look at all the people already crying about PU Mesmer. Most of the time the “solution,” crappy as it may be, is to just ignore them. With this buff that’s now impossible. A condi Mesmer now has access to constant Bleed/Burning/Torment/Confusion/Vulnerability and that’s not even considering Chaos Storm/Armor and weakness/cripple from clone deaths, also don’t forget that sigils are getting tweaked, so likely Hydromancy just for the chill as an extra cover-condition. And the thing is, none of this hits in a “burst” like it does with Necros and Engineers, its just a steady nonstop stream of death. You’re going to have to be a good player to beat a condition Mesmer, which means all the people who were crying about PU before -which is why it’s getting nerfed- are gonna turn into wet girls now.

(… No offense to any moistened women out there.)

But staff with PU creates an unreliable situation where stealth is concerned. Add to that an extra bounce and any/every time you’re going to want to enter stealth you’re potentially going to have to wait a number of seconds before you can do so without proccing revealed due to rogue winds of chaos. What’s more likely to happen is you’ll be more confused than the enemy about what bolt is where, enter stealth on an impulse, and turn yourself into a wet girl as you cry over revealed.

Woah, seriously?

IE + staff is going to be very powerful then – it’s already decent enough on the auto attack alone.

Can anyone confirm if Illusionary Elasticity now affects staff clones?

sirrealist.1360:

Can anyone confirm if Illusionary Elasticity now affects staff clones?

According to the devs, it will in the feature patch coming April 15.

skcamow.3527:

According to the devs, it will in the feature patch coming April 15.

Thanks much! I’m a new mesmer (warrior lvl 68, ele lvl 20) and I’m just starting to explore the profession. I’m currently using/learning the staff, and while reading about builds i was sad to see this particular “bug”. Glad they’re updating it! So far the staff has been a lot of fun, and I’d like to explore some builds using it. I’ll be starting a thread on solo/duo play, and I’d be glad to get your input!