Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or is staff really just the absolute tops? Not in terms of it being over-powered, but it’s just so versatile.

I mean.. it has a #1 skill that gives conditions to enemies and boons to allies. This is incredible in itself especially for a 0 cooldown skill. On top of this.. your clone attacks will have the same effect! This is the only weapon skill that transfers to the clones, right?

This plus the escape, chaos storm and the great phantasm.. it makes it hard for me to ever swap weapons because I don’t want to!

Has anyone else found a weapon combo they enjoy more or feel is as “complete” as staff is?

I agree that staff is an amazing weapon, and I use it in 100% of my builds, so no argument there.

As for other weapon combos, I fought the focus for a long time, but after learning how to really use it, sword/focus is another all time favorite for me. It’s just so versatile. You can:
Sword:
*Strip boons on the auto attack(clones do this too!)
*Go invulnerable (this has ridiculous uptime when traited)
*Leap/Cripple/Immobilize
*Gain Chaos Armor (if you leap through an ethereal field)
Focus:
*Get swiftness
*Inflict cripple
*Pull enemies in
*Pull enemies off cliffs/keep walls
*Block projectiles (reflect them if traited)
*Damage seige/players on walls with iWarden
*Cleanse conditions (Curtain + iWarden = AoE condition removal!
*Get retaliation (Leap through the curtain!)
*Cause AoE confusion (if you put the iWarden in an ethereal field)

I find myself using Staff and Sword/Focus 95% of the time now because there’s just so much I can do with it. Really the only time I switch out is to get OH sword for a little more burst if I need it.

If you don’t mind doing poor dps then it’s great..

(Pet me preface with saying I am currently doing strictly PvE leveling at the moment)

I do enjoy the sword mainhand, although the #3 clone skill always seems ‘eh’ to me. Seems like 90% of the time the clone doesn’t charge.. just drops at my feet and runs to attack. Then I swap with him for the root and I’m like.. I could have just ran to the target and started this fight 3 seconds sooner.

I am bad with focus offhand. I just don’t .. I don’t get it I guess. I put the wall down to get a cripple/swiftness.. after that I can press the button again to move them slightly toward the wall but it doesn’t seem worth it to use (obviously I’m missing something there).

And the warden .. Seems to do “OK” damage but is forced to stay in place. I find he usually dies much faster than the other phantasms due to his short range.

I’ve used Sword/Sword a bit, some solid damage, blur and block are pretty good for defense, the phantasmal swordsman isn’t bad and can generally avoid dying too quickly.

Scepter/Sword is kinda fun.. scepter can pump clones out fast, plus it has a block of it’s own (so two blocks on scepter sword)

Scepter/Torch is pretty fun for confusion.. that scepter 2 is pretty darn powerful. Although scepter is a ranged weapon, I use it almost as a melee due to the clone generating ability on skill 1 is great at close range. The phantasm on torch supplies some decent confusion and The Prestige gives a reliable blind, so you’ll almost always get them to swing, miss, and hurt themselves.

I want to like greatsword, but I feel like it’s just not versatile enough… especially when compared to staff.

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If you don’t mind doing poor dps then it’s great..

Yeah.. I’ve never been about just trying to find the one thing that does the most damage. The fact is, I can take on more with a staff than any other weapon. Sure, maybe I did 20% less DPS, but I survived that fight against 8 centuars and the elite that roamed in.

• While Staff#1 is fine, it prevents you from fighting long range. Mathematically, Staff#1 deals more damage than GS#1 (assuming they only hit once and on medium range)
• Staff#2 is probably the greatest survival skill of mesmers. Yet, it’s not a stunbreaker. Most ppl tend to use it rather as clone spawn that an actual retreat.
• Staff#3 is a decent Phantasms, which only attacks a single target and its damage depends on your party
• Staff#4 seems decent for Mesmers who can’t dodge well.
• Staff#5 is a useful AoE for defense and offense. But lots of mesmers think it’s a damage skill

• GS#1 is a piercing long range skill, dealing less damage at close range. While it has no special effects (exc piercing), it deals almost 3 hits per second.
• GS#2 is a great opener for fights. It also deals conditions/ boons for those in range.
• GS#3 … well … sometimes it’s useful for boon ripping
• GS#4 is an awesome phantasm. Usually stays a bit away from the target, so it doesn’t get hit by every random attack. It also deals aoe damage and cripple. Probably most used phantasm
• GS#5 is a push skill, since GS is meant to be used long range

• Focus #4 is the most reliable swiftness skill of mesmers, so most wouldn’t skip it. But it can also pull (without aggroing) and reflect projectiles (traited)
• Focus #5 is an awesome phantasms which attacks 12 times and absorbs (/reflects) projectiles pretty well. When it hits, it’s probably the most damaging phantasm, yet has a bad AI.

• Sword#3 … well, I use it for combat opener, clone summoner and leap finisher. The gap closing sucks.

@Zumi
Sword clones cause vulnerability (with three clones not negligible) and boon ripping.

Nretep.2564:

• GS#2 is a great opener for fights. It also deals conditions/ boons for those in range.

Well considering your skill 1 deals the most damage when at max range, I’d usually open with skill 1 to get their attention and follow up with the phantasm for damage + cripple. If you initiate at max range with skill 2, you’re not going to get the might .. too far to bounce.

Mongo.2490:

Nretep.2564:

• GS#2 is a great opener for fights. It also deals conditions/ boons for those in range.

Well considering your skill 1 deals the most damage when at max range, I’d usually open with skill 1 to get their attention and follow up with the phantasm for damage + cripple. If you initiate at max range with skill 2, you’re not going to get the might .. too far to bounce.

I use it as combat opener so the mob gets aggro at the first clone. Right after that, I summon the phantasm to get a bit damage and cripple. Then I attack with #1, dodge (clone) and use MoP at full range. Usually enough to finish normal mobs.

That’s why I rarely see any use of ChaosArmor … it triggers on being hit.

Mongo.2490:

(Pet me preface with saying I am currently doing strictly PvE leveling at the moment)

Ahh, my answer was speaking largely from a WvW perspective, so most of my points were relevant to that. There’s an insane amount of utility in those weapons if you’re using them for WvW, but a lot of it is irrelevant for PvE.

The sword #3 skill only has a 600 range, so you have to make sure you’re close enough when you use it or it will fail a lot of the time. I can see why it’d be underwhelming in PvE though.

The iWarden does the most raw damage of any phantasm, but it’s stationary, so obviously it’s uses are limited. It also doesn’t really have an AI, since it just sits there and attacks until its target is killed.

In general it greatly depends on what you’re trying to do. In my experience I find myself categorizing them like this:

MH Sword: Really only useful in PvP/WvW and possibly the occasional invulnerability in PvE.
OH Sword: Phantasm has decent damage. I use it for burst in WvW.
Scepter: I rarely use this. Confusion was nerfed in WvW and confusion as a whole is worthless in PvE, since mobs don’t use nearly as many skills as players. The #3 hits relatively hard though.
Pistol: Probably my favorite straight dps weapon for PvE. I switch to it rarely in PvE for the stun, but that’s about it. I just like other weapons more.
Torch: I play around with this in WvW a lot for the extra stealth. The phantasm is pretty terrible though, so it’s not very often.
Greatsword: I use this all the time in PvE for the good single target/AoE damage.

And I already explained my thoughts on Staff/Focus. Chaos Armor is the best armor in the game, no question, but again, it’s main use comes in WvW and PvP.

@Nretep: Yeah, it makes sense to get them to attack the clone… but missing out on those boons seems like it’s not worth it.

@Zumi: Generally what I’ve been doing is popping the 2 clones, throwing down Chaos Storm, then using staff #2 for a third clone. At this point I have 4 (including myself) sets of WoC getting thrown at the target. Meanwhile, chaos storm is popping up aegis on the clones, basically negating 2-3 attacks. It’s a really awesome combination of skills and it’s saved me many times.

That being said .. my swap weapon set really should dish out some damage. It seems kind of silly that we have 2 main hand and 3 off hand weapons.

I’d like to see some evidence of staff #1 being better dps than greatsword as mentioned above..

The problem with staff is that if you swap from sword to staff, your dps will suffer by a huge amount.

If we’re talking about wvw or pvp… then things are different.

(Unfortunately) I must agree with you – staff is just too useful to be without.

Why unfortunate: because my two favourite weapons are GS and focus, but staff has become such a crutch defensive weapon I just have to have it equipped, so I can’t use GS and focus at the same time.

Give me MHfocus with a phase retreat copy and bouncing (spinning fan) attack and I’ll be over the moon!

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I’d like to see some evidence of staff #1 being better dps than greatsword as mentioned above..

The problem with staff is that if you swap from sword to staff, your dps will suffer by a huge amount.

If we’re talking about wvw or pvp… then things are different.

Even with all the conditions applied to your enemy and boons applied to yourself? It seems like you can stack some might and fury pretty easily with staff as well as inflict burn/bleed/vuln to your enemies.

It absolutely seems like if you’re going for some burst damage, greatsword is a good way to deal some strong damage fast.. but it also seems like if you’re looking for sustained DPS, staff can hold it’s own.

Let me re-iterate.. “SEEMS”. I have done no calculations or controlled testing.

I love the staff. I love the playstyle of the staff. I love conditions. I love how we dodge to generate clones and clones are what we use to deal damage which makes for a constant acrobatic fighting.

….

I dislike how condition damage is in such a sad state of affairs months and months after the game has been released. The easy fix of upping the cap to 50 has been ignored, so we languish.

My last group had a necro, an engineer and a condition ranger. Any mob went to 25 bleeds/Vulnerability and stayed glued there within the first seconds. I excused myself and went to get my guardian instead.

Kanto.1659:

I dislike how condition damage is in such a sad state of affairs months and months after the game has been released. The easy fix of upping the cap to 50 has been ignored, so we languish.

My last group had a necro, an engineer and a condition ranger. Any mob went to 25 bleeds/Vulnerability and stayed glued there within the first seconds. I excused myself and went to get my guardian instead.

Is that how it works? I don’t have much experience in large group settings so I haven’t come across this yet. Why are there caps at all? If you can maintain the upkeep on adding more stacks, why is there a cap?

I don’t know the exact mechanics behind it, but isn’t it like.. the enemy loses 1 stack a second? Something like that? Why not make it a percentage per second.. so the more stacks an enemy has, the harder the group needs to work to keep those stacks up. Seems like it would be a pretty good ‘soft cap’ that’s actually skill based instead of a flat hard cap that doesn’t add ANYTHING to the game.

Curunen.8729:

(Unfortunately) I must agree with you – staff is just too useful to be without.

Why unfortunate: because my two favourite weapons are GS and focus, but staff has become such a crutch defensive weapon I just have to have it equipped, so I can’t use GS and focus at the same time.

Give me MHfocus with a phase retreat copy and bouncing (spinning fan) attack and I’ll be over the moon!

I support any off hand to main hand changes. I personally would like a main hand pistol, but anything that could tighten the capability our weapons seem to lack.

Staff only seems so strong because it’s our sole defensive weapon (Focus and Torch have some good defensive aspects, but by that standard so does Sword). It has a number of disadvantages as well, I think it’s pretty well-balanced. The AA windup is fairly long and unique, CA has a moderate cooldown without traits, Phase Retreat always follows a predictable pattern, etc.

There’s no other class with a full weapon set (since Staff is a two-hander) that screams ‘defense’ the way our Staff does. Nothing else is as honed in on kiting, maneuverability and resilience; it’s almost purely defense in a way not shared by the rest of the game’s weapon sets. To a good player, that kind of knowledge is of immense benefit in a battle; you can use your knowledge of the Mesmer’s mindset when he switches to Staff against him.

Phase Retreat/Chaos Storm so guuuud.

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I’d like to see some evidence of staff #1 being better dps than greatsword as mentioned above..

I calced it with average stats in some thread. Even with sharper images the staff simply wins in terms of damage. The burning is just strong.

[ Edit ]
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-maximize-bleed-stacks/first#post1576530
my calculation

In PvE, the slow ramp-up of damage makes WoC very inefficient at killing normal mobs. In PvP, everyone farts out condition cleansers every few seconds.

The Staff should theoretically have higher DPS than direct damage weapons: it’s (unreliable) DoT, after all. In practice however not having to wait for your damage has many advantages.

Nretep.2564:

Mongo.2490:

Nretep.2564:

• GS#2 is a great opener for fights. It also deals conditions/ boons for those in range.

Well considering your skill 1 deals the most damage when at max range, I’d usually open with skill 1 to get their attention and follow up with the phantasm for damage + cripple. If you initiate at max range with skill 2, you’re not going to get the might .. too far to bounce.

I use it as combat opener so the mob gets aggro at the first clone. Right after that, I summon the phantasm to get a bit damage and cripple. Then I attack with #1, dodge (clone) and use MoP at full range. Usually enough to finish normal mobs.

That’s why I rarely see any use of ChaosArmor … it triggers on being hit.

Chaos armor is arguably the best defensive armor in the game. Only for mesmer’s that can’t dodge……..lol.

Staff is simply incredible and compliments almost any mesmer spec well. Staff excels at almost everything including strong pressure damage whether specc’d for cond or power crit.

Traited staff is also the best clone creator we have which makes staff a no brainer for the majority of shatter specs.

IMO its only because iZerker is bugged right now.

I used to prefer GS > Staff due to the high damage capabilities… it also puts phants/clones near the target (nice for shattering). However, they bugged out the largest part of that so now it’s pretty meh.

Nretep.2564:

fadeaway.2807:

I’d like to see some evidence of staff #1 being better dps than greatsword as mentioned above..

I calced it with average stats in some thread. Even with sharper images the staff simply wins in terms of damage. The burning is just strong.

[ Edit ]
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-maximize-bleed-stacks/first#post1576530
my calculation

Thanks for this. I wouldn’t call it a mistake but I think you’ve overlooked something incredibly important.

1)
MsdDPS := sDmg / sCast * ( crChance * (1.5 + crDmg) + (1-crChance) ) * (1 + avgVul/100)
= 111 / 0.75 * (60% * (1.5 + 30%) + 40%) * (1.022)
= 148 * 1.48 * 1.022
MsdDPS = 223.9

2)
MscDPS := (vulDmg * vulChance + bldDmg * bldChance + burDmg * burChance) / sCast
= (0 * 33.3% + 298 * 33.3% + 328 * 33.3%) / 0.75
= 208.7 / 0.75
MscDPS = 278.2

3)
MgdDPS := gDmg / gCast * ( crChance * (1.5 + crDmg) + (1-crChance) ) * (1 + avgVul/100)
= 300 / 1.5 * (60% * (1.5 + 30%) + 40%) * 1
= 200 * 1.48
MgdDPS = 296

4)
MgcDPS := 0
// Note: no condition damage from mesmer with GS

In the above calculations where you pit greatsword against staff… notice the following part of your equation applies to both greatsword and staff
( crChance * (1.5 + crDmg) + (1-crChance) ) * (1 + avgVul/100)

This is basically the modifcation by your critical damage stats and the target’s vulnerability. Remove this for a moment, and you get the standard vanilla dps stats:
staff = 111/0.75 = 148
gsword = 300/1.5 = 200

Your crit damage modifier came out to +48% damage. +48% direct damage meant a lot more to the greatsword than it did to the staff. If the target has 25% vulnerability which is fairly often in pve, the greatsword benefits even more. Wheras the staff only gained 71 damage from your crit stat modifiers, the greatsword gained 96.

What I’m trying to say is that the difference between gsword and staff hugely depends on what gear you use. If you focus on crits, greatsword will pull ahead by a ridiculous margin.

Finally, I’m sorry to say this, but the staff #1 tooltip is wrong. The attack speed is not 0.75. It’s actually closer to the greatsword at 1.4-1.5 seconds per attack. Go try it in the mists

As I said in that thread, I simplyfied alot. While it still seems complicated, I took tooltip informations and skipped alot other things.
Skipped things:

• Staff bouncing (buffs and additional attacks)
• GS higher damage at full range
• GS piercing effect
• On crit sigils/ foods/ runes
• Condition duration +/- (staff becomes quite useless with – condition duration)
• Party effects (which heavily affects iWarlock)

And even if the staff attacks slower and calculated (probably due to projectile travelling time), the condition with avg 278dps it not negligible. Especially from clones.

But here again, I only use the staff, when I face bosses I need Staff#2 against (like lupicus or alpha).

The staff is strong, but not overly so IMO. It’s #1 is intentionally unreliable, to make up for the very powerful #2.

All in all it’s a superb movement/escape/placement weapon with solid defence and the ability to wear your target down, but keep in mind that’s all it does.
And, weapons do specialize. so this makes sense.

Mongo.2490:

Is that how it works? I don’t have much experience in large group settings so I haven’t come across this yet. Why are there caps at all? If you can maintain the upkeep on adding more stacks, why is there a cap?

I don’t know the exact mechanics behind it, but isn’t it like.. the enemy loses 1 stack a second? Something like that? Why not make it a percentage per second.. so the more stacks an enemy has, the harder the group needs to work to keep those stacks up. Seems like it would be a pretty good ‘soft cap’ that’s actually skill based instead of a flat hard cap that doesn’t add ANYTHING to the game.

Bleeds are capped at 25 stacks. Each individual bleed has a duration and they drop when the duration is up. I believe a newly applied bleed will push off an old bleed if the stack is capped.

Burning allows the highest damage burn to take precedence and new burns find their priority and add to the duration. Targets take only 1 burn per tick but its longer duration.

Confusion, same as bleed IIRC

Poison, think its like burning but not 100% sure

They have caps on bleeds n confusion because of Zerg play, wvw and large world events. More then 25 stacks of confusion on ya? Suppose they could cap it in wvw and pvp, don’t see a good reason in PvE though.

I prefer to go direct damage simply because I know if I hit something it damages it and I don’t run the risk of my conditions falling off or being pushed back. I would like to see personal stack limits implemented, least you would know you could realize your full damage potential then.

I run a condition build on my thief sometimes. It does pretty good damage if I’m the only bleeder. But its on par with direct damage output so it almost easier and more useful to go direct damage and be done with it.

Blood~

I love staff soo much that even in berserker gear and build in spvp i can’t live without it and so i end up using gs and staff in spvp

Staff is simply amazing for Mesmers in my opinion. I’m running a condition damage type build so I’m laying mobs down with the staff. Staff is the only way to go in pve as far as a ranged defensive weapon goes.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

Staff is simply amazing for Mesmers in my opinion. I’m running a condition damage type build so I’m laying mobs down with the staff. Staff is the only way to go in pve as far as a ranged defensive weapon goes.

Ever done high level FOTM?

I find the GS much better since the last buff. Staff’s condition application is subject to heavy rng. I find that I can output more consistent dps with GS via the increased dmg and more reliable application of bleed via crits.

Staff is still my favorite weapon though.