Guild Wars 2

In this Topic the focus lies on PvE alone. (Mostly Raids)
All changes suggested are not ment to be balanced in other game modes (SPvP&WvW)

Variations of Mesmers/Chronomancers seen in PvE:

1. Standard full Berserker/Assassins Armor Chronomancer

This variation is one of the most seen if not the most seen builds running around in Tyria.
Most of the time running only meele weapons with a Sword/Shield, Sword/Focus setup.

Traitlines:

Domination
Illusions/Inspiration
Chronomancer

Utility: Sometimes Feedback, Some Wells, Timewarp

Advantages:
Good group support (Quickness/Alacrity)
Nice survivability if played correctly (Evades, Blocks, Distortion)
Huge failsave mechanics (sharing Distortion)
In theory highest (100%) possible reflect uptime (Traited-Focus+Feedback+CS)

Disadvantages:
Very low personal DPS
High DPS downtime if your Phant. get destroyed trough mechanics (Slubling, Matthias sacrifice)
somewhat hard to master skill rotation (timing inside of split needs some practice)
If you have 1 Chronomancer who plays perfect you cant even make an argument to bring a second.
Revenant dependend (for Facet of Nature)

2. Commander/Full boon duration Chronomancer

This variation is said to be the most effective in Raids. The gear is expensive / annoying to get but most of the time worth the effort put in.

Most of the time running a full meele loadout aswell. Sword/Shield, Sword/X

Traitlines:
Inspiration
Illusions/Domination
Chronomancer

Utility: WoRecall/Feedback, WoAction, SoI, Timewarp,

Advantages:
This build excells even more in the strong points mentioned above
It brings close to 100% quickness uptime and a good amount of Alacrity
Running a CommanderChrono will always make sure that the group is capped of with might and things like protection thanks to SoI and the SoI autocast from Inspiration Grandmaster.
Very good at tanking certiant bosses (VG&Gorseval) your dps is low anyways and alacrity and quickness can be shared while pulling the boss to the certain spots.
Does not need a Revenant to perform but like to have one.

Disadvantages:
Even lower personal DPS
If you are not the main tank high dps loss (Toughness from the commander gear needs to be taken into accout from the tank)
Skillrotation is still hard to pull of for some ppl.
Only room for 1 chronomancer.

3. Condition Chronomancer

I dont know a thing about condition builds they seem to have somewhat higher max. DPS than Berserker builds but need more time to hit that DPS. (3 Pistol phantasms)

Some insight on this build would be nice.
——————————————————————————————-

Problems every Chronomancer build has in PvE:
This post is already long enough so let’s keep it simple

DPS

We get outclasses by almost every profession in terms of DPS and are not suited to play any other role than being a BoonBot.
We need a lot of time to get rolling in big scale fights andare not getting awarded for it.

If i manage to keep up 3 phantasams all the time and keep the group quickness up nonetheless why does this DH who is only AA with his hammer still doing more DPS.

What are your generall toughts about Chronomancers/Mesmers in PvE what could be done to make them more “rewarding” to play?

Ty for reading.

I find Chronomancer very rewarding to play in PvE. DPS is low but it’s impossible to overstate how useful Chronomancer’s buffs are to a group. Permanent quickness and alacrity is crazy. I also don’t think Chronomancer without Commander’s is reliant on a Herald, as long as he has Superior Sigil of Concetration, but the price on that is pretty steep…

The one thing I’ll agree is that we only ever need one Chronomancer to keep 5 players’ quickness and alacrity needs more than covered. Stacking more than one just doesn’t make sense.

Still, I think that in PvE Chronomancer is in a very healthy spot right now. DPS is generally decent if they don’t throw all their eggs into the alacrity basket and take a different off-hand than Shield. Condition Mesmer can output a pretty respectable 20k DPS or so, if not more (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/43ixzz/mesmer_dps_calculator_v_14_rise_of_the_condi/), and Power Mesmer still has good burst, CC, and AoE for general open world. I wouldn’t say no to better damage options, sure, but I signed up for Mesmer because I like utility over big numbers, so I’m not bothered.

Quite honestly, chrono is fine in PvE. We’re useful, strong, and BiS for pretty much every composition.

The issue is that mesmer is not fine in PvE, and any future specializations released will probably be just as bad.

That being said, this isn’t the worst thing in the world. While diversity in options is nice, having at least one strong option is ok. It’s not like PvP where build diversity directly affects whether you’re useful in a specific team comp or not. Chrono is needed for any PvE situation, and that means that we will always have a place for us.

To comment on OP: I feel you when dps already sucks and you have to sacrifice even more stat points going for thoughness in commander gear.
If only thougness was ferocity… Not like it would make all the difference but at least it wouldnt conflict with boss agro and we wouldnt feel bad wasting points on useless stats anyways… A piece with a thoughness infusion or a knight ring is enough.
And for tank/supporty boon duration stats combo we already have ministrels….

For the rest, i agree chrono is fine(ish, could use some polish/tweaking)… The real problems remain on core mesmer and its dps concept. Will be hard to make future elite spec with current mesmer like this, it need to be over-performing to balance the things out with the underperforming core.

A lot of good points made by the three of you.
I see where you are coming and special thanks to step. almost forgot how it felt when the whole party screams and cries because the chrono who is playing is not as good as you.

IMO is just has this different feeling of rewards. Most of the time you as Chrono are just as good as the other players you play with. You can carry the dps somewhat but if ppl are bad and dont know how to use their cooldowns you feel more lost than any other class.

For example: Your team is doing bad in gorseval split phase and you manage to pull the small trashmobs together and cleave them down. if you are alone you get reminded of why plaing mesmer in open world is just a pain.

That the Core Mesmer is underperforming atm is not even up for debate imo. if you have the power to cast everything twice in a row things have to be tweakd for it not to be straight out broken.

Shinja.5642:

A lot of good points made by the three of you.
I see where you are coming and special thanks to step. almost forgot how it felt when the whole party screams and cries because the chrono who is playing is not as good as you.

IMO is just has this different feeling of rewards. Most of the time you as Chrono are just as good as the other players you play with. You can carry the dps somewhat but if ppl are bad and dont know how to use their cooldowns you feel more lost than any other class.

For example: Your team is doing bad in gorseval split phase and you manage to pull the small trashmobs together and cleave them down. if you are alone you get reminded of why plaing mesmer in open world is just a pain.

That the Core Mesmer is underperforming atm is not even up for debate imo. if you have the power to cast everything twice in a row things have to be tweakd for it not to be straight out broken.

People kill the adds in split phase O.o. We just ignore them and they die on the next burn.

Anyway, it’s definitely a new style of play. Prior to chrono there wasn’t really any such thing as a dedicated support whose effectiveness is directly linked to the performance of other party members. Now there is. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, just a different thing.

Personally, I think it feels plenty rewarding to play this way, so the whole thing about rewards is purely a personal opinion. Low/limited dps isn’t an issue as it is in WvW where your physical reward is directly linked to how many people you tag, so that’s not an issue either.

Heya & Wahooooo

I’d like to “fix” your post with my own expiriences and opinions.

Standard full Berserker (danger time) or Berserker/Assassins mix Chronomancer

Traitlines:

• Domination/Inspiration
• Illusions/Inspiration/Duelling
• Chronomancer

Utility: Every Well but Precog, sometimes Feedback, SoI, TW

Advantages:

• Highest DpS + Support combination a Chrono has to offer (Support and Survivability are ALWAYS high as a Chrono. If you don’t use Wells because it’s “lowering your dps” you can leave the squad immediately anyway!)
• In theory highest (100%) possible reflect uptime. Well … everyone is able to summon 3 wardens … You don’t need anything else, you never did.
• Revenant independend (ty Superior Sigil of Concentration for letting me have 100% quickness uptime with only food)

Disadvantages:

• Very low personal DPS … Chrono never has high dps …
• High DPS downtime if your Phant. get destroyed trough mechanics (Slubling, Matthias sacrifice) … but glad I’m getting sacrificed and not a Necro with 15k more DpS, right?
• Not faceroll … is that even a disadventage!?

2. Commander/Full boon duration Chronomancer

This variation is said to be the most effective in Raids. I find it the most garbage for … well for everything. You don’t need it, it’s only worth using if you have NO Rev and are Solomancer. Basicly when you pug.

Traitlines:

• Inspiration
• Illusions
• Chronomancer

Utility: WoR/Feedback, WoA, SoI, TW

Advantages:

• It helps to fix up the lack of a Rev or 2nd Chrono in groups unable to find a perfect team comp.
• Brings easier close to 100% quickness uptime and the exact same amount of Alacrity as any other chrono build. #notaffectedbyboonduration
• Running a CommanderChrono will have NO IMPACT WHAT SO EVER on might and things like protection thanks to SoI only SHARING boons.
• Makes tanking easier if you don’t have DT gear to get up to 1700 toughness.
• Still does not need a Revenant to perform. Like the other build above. But is indeed less RNGsus dependend.

Disadvantages:

• You can be happy if you don’t heal the enemy with your attacks.
• If you are not the main tank high dps loss (Toughness from the commander gear needs to be taken into accout from the tank)
• Only room for 1 chronomancer.
• Not an optimal solution for good parties.
• Horrible gear if you have a Rev or a 2nd Chrono.

3. Condition Chronomancer

Advantages:

• Max DpS possible as Mes. Dares scratching the 20k mark.
• 100% ranged with max damage weapons.
• Can be used as 2nd Chrono for Sabby so the Druid can go melee and go for DpS aswell stack more Grace of the Land stacks while the Chrono barely loses DpS without quickness and alacrity since the main damage comes from the duellists and they are unaffected by those buffs whatsoever.

Disadventages:

• Low quickness uptime (Damage Signet instead of Wells tradeoff).
• Even lower alacrity upteim (Damage Signet instead of Wells tradeoff).
• Duellists can be meatshielded.
• Requires Signet of Ether to work.
• No boonduration food.

DPS

We get outclasses by almost every profession in terms of DPS and are not suited to play any other role than being a Support. Except you go purely for condition damage. Still not the best profession to do that, but hey you still got 1 well and TW aswell ToT, so don’t cry about that now do you!?

We need a lot of time to get rolling. Phantasm summoning times are very long.

I keep the group quickness and alacrity up all the time, so it’s only fair that even with 3 dps phants I’m dealing less damage than a dps profession.

That’s my opinion on your whole post. I hope you’ll take it with humor, cuz that’s how I wrote it down

Greez!

- Xyonon

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

apharma.3741:

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

Double chrono is a pretty solid choice in gorse and sabetha for sure, and may be solid in the 2nd wing as well. It’s not a totally horrible thing to do.

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

Double chrono is a pretty solid choice in gorse and sabetha for sure, and may be solid in the 2nd wing as well. It’s not a totally horrible thing to do.

Perhaps not entirely but I certainly would start having kittens if I saw 3 mesmers turn up and they all said they can’t play anything but chrono.

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

Double chrono is a pretty solid choice in gorse and sabetha for sure, and may be solid in the 2nd wing as well. It’s not a totally horrible thing to do.

Perhaps not entirely but I certainly would start having kittens if I saw 3 mesmers turn up and they all said they can’t play anything but chrono.

Well yes, 3 is too many. 1 per 5 people is the cap.

Shinja.5642:

A lot of good points made by the three of you.
I see where you are coming and special thanks to step. almost forgot how it felt when the whole party screams and cries because the chrono who is playing is not as good as you.

IMO is just has this different feeling of rewards. Most of the time you as Chrono are just as good as the other players you play with. You can carry the dps somewhat but if ppl are bad and dont know how to use their cooldowns you feel more lost than any other class.

For example: Your team is doing bad in gorseval split phase and you manage to pull the small trashmobs together and cleave them down. if you are alone you get reminded of why plaing mesmer in open world is just a pain.

That the Core Mesmer is underperforming atm is not even up for debate imo. if you have the power to cast everything twice in a row things have to be tweakd for it not to be straight out broken.

Well, you need to keep in mind that in a raid environment, you are trading a significant amount of personal DPS for alacrity/quickness. For open world I take a power shatter build with Greatsword, Deceptive Evasion, Well of Calamity / Gravity Well, etc, and I don’t find it annoying at all. It’s got good burst, AoE damage, personal quickness/alacrity, and mobility. Of course I won’t be meeting the numbers of Elementalists and Thieves but I get by very nicely with it.

Regarding your first paragraph, I think the most rewarding part of Chronomancer (and Mesmer in general) in PvE is how extreme its utility and support is. It feels like my team rests on me heavily. They rely on my reflects for a projectile-heavy boss, my stealth for a stealth skip, my boon stripping for fractals 41 – 50, my portal, my condition removal, etc. I’ve had complete strangers compliment me for my good work and remark on how amazing it is to have permanent alacrity and quickness on them. My friends don’t even want me to take any other class into raids because they’ve come to expect what I provide on Chronomancer so much and don’t trust any other Chronomancer to do it as well as I can.

My point is, it feels like I’m making a huge, noticeable difference to the outcome of any fight, and that’s what I love about Mesmer. As if that’s not enough, the class also has a very high skill floor, and there’s a huge leap between a good Chronomancer and a bad Chronomancer. I can take pride in the fact that I’ve invested so much time into the class, know it inside out, and can cast combos using muscle memory at this point. It makes me significantly better than the newbie who looked up a PvE build on metabattle and practised in Heart of the Mists for a couple of minutes.

Of course, the class isn’t for everyone, and that’s perfectly fine. It’s an unorthodox playstyle. Having said that, I think there’s plenty of satisfaction to be had playing Chronomancer.

I agree that the Chronomancer spec is absolutely more powerful than core Mesmer, but we can see that with most other elite specs too. Perhaps it’s not to the extent of Mesmer, but the power creep happened across the board, not just to our class. I’m more worried about how on earth they’re going to top Chronomancer with the next elite spec, but if I had to guess, it will likely be focused more on damage and deception, two facets of Mesmer that were hardly explored with Chronomancer.

I am seriously of the opinion that having 2 chronos is max dps for VG, Gorse, Sloth and Matt. Sabby and Trio depend on the professions used.