Guild Wars 2

There are some very fundamental questions that need answering about stun & daze duration, especially considering the meta of the shatterupt mesmer (30/20/0/0/20).

• First: How does stun duration stack? If I have 6/6 runes of mesmer and the trait confounding suggestions, do I get 58% (33+25) daze duration increase or do I get 66.25% (1.33*1.25) daze duration increase?
• Second: Does stun duration round? If so, how? If I have 51% stun duration on a 1 second stun, do I get a 1.51 second stun? or does it round down to a 1.5 second stun?

I’ve tried testing myself using a video recording and a stopwatch then playing it back at 1% speed, but for such miniscule differences in duration, I am unable to distinguish any answers myself. I can’t tell if I’m getting significant results or simply having video recording error. Does anyone in the mesmer community have such answers for me?

Dont have any answer, I also would like to learn about duration stacking of daze/stun for my shatter lock build.

afaik increasing on stun/daze duration is more suited for lock builds, would do less for interrupt builds. you cant interrupt an enemy that is dazed/stunned.

Edit: got some good info from this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Analysis-Confounding-Suggestions

bOgz.7263:

Dont have any answer, I also would like to learn about duration stacking of daze/stun for my shatter lock build.

afaik increasing on stun/daze duration is more suited for lock builds, would do less for interrupt builds. you cant interrupt an enemy that is dazed/stunned.

Edit: got some good info from this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Analysis-Confounding-Suggestions

I have no idea how that guy is coming up with a “2 second daze.” I’ve never seen anything near that long with CfS, SoP, & 6RoM. I’d be inclined to say it’s in the realm of 1.5s~1.75s. I also think he just assumes sigil of paralyzation does something. I’d rather not assume anything. Especially when the difference between using it and not using it is a potentially wasted slot versus a 5% damage increase.

I can answer your second question. Every condition in this game is rounded to the nearest quarter, but I’m not sure if it’s downward or upward. I think anet said it somewhere but it was long time ago. I would presume it’s a downward quarter, which means if you get 51% duration on 1 sec daze, then you will get 1.5 daze. You will need at least 75% duration increase to reach 1.75 sec

Mesmer rune and sigil of para do not reflect duration increase on the skill tooltip, assuming they do increase the duration at all, so the scale will remain a mystery, for now. But I don’t think condition duration compounds that way, it’s probably base duration*(1 + incremental percentage regardless of where it comes from)

I am not exactly sure how Daze duration works, damaging conditions round down to a whole second… My suggestion would be to test it out with the pistol 5 skill magic bullet. That has a 2s base daze. Then you would want to play around with where your duration is coming from:
Trait line (30 domination): 30%
Mesmer Runes: 33%
Trait (CS): 25%
Mix Other bonuses
Food (Koi Cakes): 40%
Giver Weapon: 10%
Lyssa+MadKing Runes: 20%
Sigil of Paralyzation: 15% (Pretty sure this only applies to stun now)

I would test generic condition duration then specific daze duration bonuses, and try to keep them to a whole number duration. So trait line + L&MK runes which should give 3s. Then trait line + Confounding Suggestions, trait line + Mes runes + Koi cakes, etc. It wouldn’t surprise me if some bonuses added and others were multiplicative. If I have time (and remember) Ill try it out but it wouldn’t be for a few days…

Daze, Stun are NOT Conditions, They are Control Effects.

Sigil of Paralyzation increase ONLY Stun duration.

Pure teoretically Mesmer Daze effects with CS and 6xRoM, should last around ~1.60 Seconds (If including all theory of its lasting duration)

AivenPrimus.9184:

Daze, Stun are NOT Conditions, They are Control Effects.

Sigil of Paralyzation increase ONLY Stun duration.

Pure teoretically Mesmer Daze effects with CS and 6xRoM, should last around ~1.60 Seconds (If including all theory of its lasting duration)

Same difference, this game runs on a 1/4 second as the minimum time interval. Be it condition or control effect they should comply to the same rule.

AivenPrimus.9184:

Daze, Stun are NOT Conditions, They are Control Effects.

Sigil of Paralyzation increase ONLY Stun duration.

Pure teoretically Mesmer Daze effects with CS and 6xRoM, should last around ~1.60 Seconds (If including all theory of its lasting duration)

I never realized there was a difference… Would make testing Daze duration easier. Why the hell did Anet list Fear and Immobilize as a condition and not a control effect… Nope Fear is listed on wiki as both condition and control effect. I’d run the same test with condition duration included.

What I understood from my speculation,

Daze, Stun etc was made as ‘’much more specific’’ Control Effect,

try your imagination, If you get stunned or dazed, it is much more harder to recover from such effects,
than being >feared< or >Immobilized<

Thats why Fear and Immobiliaze is affected by both ‘’type of condition removal effects’‘—> ’’Condition Removal’’abilities, ‘’Breaks Stun’’abilities

and on top of it,
they are affected both positively and negatively, like i mentioned before
Because their duration is >increased< for every increase on casters Condition duration aka ’’intensity’’
and also their duration is >reduced< for every decrease on Targets Condition duration aka ’’resisting’’

Well eitherway, that is my opinion.

AivenPrimus.9184:

What I understood from my speculation,

Daze, Stun etc was made as ‘’much more specific’’ Control Effect,

try your imagination, If you get stunned or dazed, it is much more harder to recover from such effects,
than being >feared< or >Immobilized<

Thats why Fear and Immobiliaze is affected by both ‘’type of condition removal effects’‘—> ’’Condition Removal’’abilities, ‘’Breaks Stun’’abilities

and on top of it,
they are affected both positively and negatively, like i mentioned before
Because their duration is >increased< for every increase on casters Condition duration aka ’’intensity’’
and also their duration is >reduced< for every decrease on Targets Condition duration aka ’’resisting’’

Well eitherway, that is my opinion.

Stunbreak doesnt break immobilize. It breaks everything that makes you not able to use skills with cast times, so it breaks fear, but not immobilize.

@AivenPrimus
Thing is that fear, immobilize, daze, stun all do no damage generically. I could understand a distinction between condition and control. Assuming the GW2Wiki is somewhat accurate: “Conditions are negative effects that provide damage and control, playing a major role in combat.”

It all depends on how correct the wiki is and when someone gets around to testing the duration… ??

You are grouping fear and daze with immobilize which is not how it works. Fear/daze/stun/blow outs STOP you from being able to use most skills. This is why stun breaks/stability are meant to counter them.

Cripple, fear, chill, immob, blind, vulnerability and weakness all do no inherent dmg but that doesn’t stop them from all being conditions, affected by condi duration and condition removal.

It is not that condis have to do dmg, it’s that STRONG control effects take away your ability to use skills but are rarer and also require rarer counters. Necromancers have the terror trait which also makes fear a damaging condition based of off condition dmg. It’s unique in that it is both control/condi dmg and therefore is the only condition that can be countered with stability/stun breaks.
From balance on July 23rd

Rune of Melandru: Fear duration is now only reduced once by this rune set. The negative stun duration bonus no longer reduces incoming fear duration. This is also true for food consumables that offer a negative stun duration bonus.
&
Sigil of Paralyzation: This sigil no longer impacts fear duration.

Fear is officially a condition and used to be the only condition that was affected by control duration stuff. That is no longer the case. It’s the only condition that stability/stunbreak counters. Immobilize is NOT countered by stun breaks/stability.

Stuns can only be increased by Sigil of Para
Daze can only be increased by the trait, runes of the mesmer.

I don’t know for certain, but I think the stun duraiton will probably round like conditions, so to the nearest quarter of a second and it is probably additive. So having both buffs would get to 1.5 seconds while 1 buff would do 1.25 seconds of daze.
I think sigil of para will turn a 1 second stun to 1.25 as well. I am not entirely certain of this paragraph though.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Sigil_of_Paralyzation

Condition cleanse doesn’t effect daze anymore? I usually dont bother since you can still dodge…

The point I was trying to make is how to clarify which durations applied to what conditions/effects. And don’t get me wrong there are many working parts in GW2, however making daze duration solely effected by 2 traits (ranger, mesmer) and 1 rune set. That would be kittening outstanding and seriously stupid when you consider warrior mace. (Oh wait there is that Technobabble if youre an Asuran… w/e).

Anyway the two that are worth comparing are Daze and Immobilize since they are opposite sides of a coin. Right? One you can’t use skills but can still move and dodge, while the other you can’t move/turn/dodge but can still use skills. So yes I understand there are two different types, control and condition, but daze isn’t increased with stun duration or condition duration… If so that makes 3 types. Or is the 15% from the sigil virtually not noticeable? Yeah so w/e GW2 has never had it all together with balance.

So…..

• Blowout
• Launch
• Knockdown
• Pull
• Knockback

These are all control effects. They are not affected by any type of duration increase. They can be broken with a stun breaking skill.

• Daze
• Stun

These are control effects. They are affected by various duration increases, which is the subject of this thread. They are broken with a stun breaking skill.

• Fear

This is a control effect and a condition. It is affected only by condition duration, but can be broken with a stun breaking skill, as well as removed with a condition removal skill.

• Bleed
• Burn
• Poison
• Torment
• Immobilize
• Cripple
• Chill
• Weakness
• Blindness
• Confusion
• Vulnerability

These are all conditions. They are affected only by condition duration. They can only be removed by a condition removal skill.

Hope that clears things up.

So it would be easier to test with the longest duration possible. Which would be an asuran ranger, grandmaster skirmishing trait Moment of Clarity, mesmer runes, sigil of paralyzation using technobabble. Probably not what you were looking for, im not leveling one to 60, but that would give the largest difference between additive or multiplicative duration… Could that really dish out a 9s daze??

It was my understanding that Sigil of Paralyzation originally worked on the following:
Daze
Stun
Fear*
Knockdown
Sink
Float
But was patched recently to not work on fear (hence the asterisk) since fear was decided to be a condition, not a control effect.

Either way, from what I can gather, the sigil of paralyzation has no effect on any of your control effects until they hit a total of 1.75 second duration total from other sources (runes, traits, base duration). This would make it essentially useless on almost all mesmer builds since we have only three skills that can apply a control effect that long (illusion of drowning, magic bullet, & signet of domination) and those are not used often enough to merit the use of a sigil.

EDIT: This changes, of course, if control effects can round up to the nearest second instead of just down. I’m inclined to believe that they would not ever round up, however, based on ArenaNet’s track record with rounding up control effects (see warrior mace f1).

@Simplicity: Control effects other than daze and stun have never been affected by any duration increasers. They work in a different way, and are standalone effects.

@Pyro, I see. I guess I was misled by fear being affected. Even if it does affect both stun & daze though (as opposed to just stun) it still doesn’t seem to affect any of the skills that we’d want it to affect and thus is still for the most part a useless sigil for a mesmer to wear.

Hrm, so I can skip testing Runes of the Mesmer + Domination XII stacking?
Because I was curious to find out whether Dom applies to the Asura racial daze, or whether them two stack in the first place. But what use is a 25% duration increase if it can’t go from 1s to 1,25s?

@Simplicity: I just wanna mention that in my analysis thread I was not doing exact timing or rounding. I said 2s daze duration as a rough estimate, but I do think that stacking all three (CS, Mesmer Runes, Para sigils) give you more than a 1.5s duration.

As you already know this is really tricky to calculate in exacts, but in my experience using dazes/stuns is more a matter of … feeling. It’s hard to explain, but when tweaking my build there’s a difference between (assuming Mesmer runes for both) having CS and not having CS; the duration increase is noticeable to the naked eye and the ability to chain certain skills together changes a bit as a result.

I think you may be right about Sigils of Paralyzation though. I spent quite some time trying to notice a difference between having them equipped and unequipped and while it does seem like theres a verrryy slight difference, it’s not worth taking up a valuable sigil slot.