Guild Wars 2

A redundant question with redundant answers! And a stupid rant at this. But lately i’m in a dilemma cuz i bought kasmeer’s pretty staff on the other hand i have my legendary gs… so i feel so obligated to use gs, actually to use both… sigh, you know, problems with aesthetics.

But of course PvE mobs all cluttered up and bunched, especially in the new Tower content, a sword/focus is just super awesome as well. While playing the tower content, sometimes gs feels clunky and slow, sometimes it puts you in danger when you’re out of stunbreaks and have to miss a beat for a sec. So I really enjoyed running staff and sword/focus. It just has this great synergy and is so fun in the current situations (i’m talking exclusively about solo-ing everything right now cuz i haven’t done it with a zerg or party yet actually… empty overflows and just easier to just hop in whenever i have time)

But I’m a power phantasm build. … and legendary gs….

i know some players even zerker phantasm build players choose to use staff. It can be said the staff phantasm works with a power boost as well… but it’s just so anti-PvE-mindset of straight dps dps dps damage = good. The GS zerker def does more damage lol. At the same time even on a zerker build, your staff clones (and autoattack) constantly applies conditions.

So because i’m no math expert and know the mesmer class only by feel and instinct, i always switch weapons depending on situations to get that synergy and perfection of performance regardless of number optimization… i used to main and level up with sword/focus staff, but i switched around to diff weaponsets and builds including gs/staff, gs sword/sword, staff sword/torch, sword/pistol gs etc… and am versatile with them… and have a WvW mindset… but still in this case, can someone help me with my dilemma for PvE, cuz i’m a perfectionist in terms of loyalty and i don’t like to feel like i’m two faced and just switch to gs cuz its pretty when i’m not fighting or something… i kinda just wanna make up my heart LOL

the question is, for experienced mesmers and math experts, do staff clone conditions + phantasms + chaos storm on top of mobs ramp up enough damage that isn’t too bad compared to izerker + autoattacks/whatever, that would make me feel better or justified for maining staff sword/focus, even if i could technically survive fine with gs?

On the other hand, gs or staff users, would you go for the feeling / performance synergy / play style of the weapons over damage in PvE (or WvW)?

I’m sure this is ridiculously stupid for asking. You can tell me just play how you want or how it feels or you could be all hardcore PvE and be like zerker, max dps. Just tell me how you feel about my stupid dilemma :P

lol @ aesthetic problems, I know them…

Sword/Focus is a must have in PvE open world. So you’re confronted to 2 choices : Staff or GS.

GS is fast and do damage, hence good for tagging. The approach is direct and it does its job.

Staff is slow and you need to get closer if you want to get the bounce from #1, but Phase Retreat is a free port/stun breaker and Chaos Storm is good offensively and defensively. Also, iWarlock hit like a truck IF it crits and the monster in question have lots of conditions. Chaos Storm + Sword/Focus is pretty good (Chaos Armor and Whirl). IMO, if you Sword/Focus and Staff, you’re going to need to swap often to compensate the AoE damage from GS.

If you want to justify to use your Staff (because aesthetic) on a zerker build, try and use the bouncing trait at mid range, it’s pretty good. Never felt the staff as a condition weapon, but I guess it can do both.

I’m not good with maths either, but my 2 cents.

Lol! yeah aethestic issues… like i mean i know what each does and how to play them, but its just which i should commit to and feel good about it. If i commit to staff i need to feel like im not missing out a lot XD but on gs it feels just clunkier or less versatile in some places , but yeah it hits harder…. i dont have the bouncing trait line… i need to justify my choice in PvE ><

Krispera.5087:

Sword/Focus is a must have in PvE open world.

Nope.

Is it the better choice of weaponry? Arguably, yes. But its definetly not a must. You only limit your choice of weapons if you think “ZOMG ZERKER!!!” every second when playing. Running around with gs/staff will perform just fine otherwise. Especially in the open PvE world where it doesnt really matter. PvE dungeons is another matter, since you generally want as much melee dps as possible. But then again its not that horrible to speedrun CoF in 5 minutes instead of 4:30 unless you are a min/maxer.

Either way I dont really see what the problem is, just go with whatever you feel like at the moment. You should have all weapons in your inventory – in fact you should have multiple variants of the same weapons. Even for my staff focused Mesmer I have 4 different greatswords. No matter the situation it wont be perfect. If you run around with sword/focus and encounter a situation where a staff would have been better, you’ll wish for a staff. If you run around with a staff in a situation where sword/focus would have been better, you’ll wish for that as well.

Cant have everything. That’s the point.

Justifying the staff in PvE is easy – jump into a group of 10 NPCs, kill them with ease and walk away with 100% hp. Protection does more than you think. Especially when you trait in the toughness tree. All out zerker is fantastic single target, not so great against large groups when you’re solo. You can test it out in WvW, just solo the camps. My gs/staff mantra Mesmer can maintain >90% hp during a fight, while standing smack in the middle and pumping out damage. My sword/sword/gs zerker Mesmer spend half the time dodging and running just to avoid dying. It take about the same time :/

Dawdler.8521:

Cant have everything. That’s the point.

This

From my little experience and my poor playing style I came to realize that what Dawdler says is the truth. And if you do not like switching weapons according to the situations you have to learn to adapt.
Think of your prefereed play style, choose the weaponsets (and gear) accordingly, go on and take the most out of it. There always will be situations where you wish you could have used a different weapon/talent build. But if you are like me and prefer to stick to a weaponset although you know in the particular moment you are not min/maxing dps, just improvise There’s nothing left to be done.

@Dawdler. Just curious to know what your gs/staff mantra build looks like. Mind sharing it? Thanks

I’ll be honest – I just overflow everything and have to say: Both → Staff against serious threat and bossfights and gs for trahsmobs.

thanks guys lol I’ve been running gs/staff WvW roaming build bc it’s a kiting machine that ppl just can’t get near has been effective to outlast difficult 1vXs n so on. open world doesn’t rly quite matter but in the tower i brought doubts to mind as to running my gs and I often will main staff in the tower. gs/staff bc it’s so kitey didn’t quite work in close quarters combat so I mean I’m used to adapting to diff weapon sets and situations and ur right I will have all weapons in inventory anyway.

this is why it’s a stupid dilemma bc there rly isn’t a problem play wise but it just bugs me to no end that I haven’t made up my mind. like I can run around with staff in open world where I don’t necessarily need it. obviously it’s also versatile enough to tackle anything that’s more dangerous. so well, it’s versatile. like basically I feel like putting away my gs right now and it doesn’t feel good at all lol it feels horrible when after a intense fight with staff in my weapon set and just kinda put it aside and re equip a gs in a city just cuz it looks nice. it’s like just ugh I’m such a poser lol xD that’s where my problem is. if I can play gs often in most content then it’s justified and I feel better for having that shiny gs on my back.

I think the root of the problem lies in that I’ve always loved the staff and it’s fun and powerful in a variety of things. I grew up my Mesmer on it lol and It intrinsically is my play style but I tried to ignore that and go with a shiny legendary skin that I like also cuz I like the idea of using swords. it’s aesthetic and concept vs play and performance. which do I value more… I don’t know xD

or maybe cuz I pve more, gs/staff feels dumb sometimes, if I WvW more I would feel more identity in gs/staff since that’s my WvW roaming build.

idk it’s kinda a thing for myself to figure out but I just needed to hear some math if there is any and if you yourself treasure aesthetic over play at all or vice versa

I’m not a huge fan of the GS. It’s got some fun skills and good DPS. but I hate the fact that any enemy can kitten the auto-attack just by staying close to you. Are there any other weapon skills in the game that have that restriction?

calavel.6249:

I’m not a huge fan of the GS. It’s got some fun skills and good DPS. but I hate the fact that any enemy can kitten the auto-attack just by staying close to you. Are there any other weapon skills in the game that have that restriction?

If you are using GS, why are you letting something in your face anyways?
Besides, GS skill 5 knocks them back quite effectively, so again, I go back to my question….

I find focus pretty overrated for open world stuff because well… maybe i’m just unlucky but even placing the warden well, either it dies to some spam aoe (not exactly few of those in the tower for example) or people run mobs away from it. To me it’s just really unreliable for damage, but it’s nice utility. Also, i feel like leading the GS beam through a few enemies + sigil of fire + IZerker produces enough AoE damage for this type of content.

Personally I use GS/staff or sword/x + staff. Staff usually takes my sword/focus slot because I find it’s pretty nice support/survival without sacrificing too much, given iWarlock nukes open world-debuffed champions for amazing values.

Rigel.3092:

If you are using GS, why are you letting something in your face anyways?
Besides, GS skill 5 knocks them back quite effectively, so again, I go back to my question….

You can knock them back 600 range with a long cd. Also there are tons of small rooms where no long range is possible. In groups you have to melee enemies for the additional boons you get. GS is a very situational weapon, it’s not made for the “all the time” usage.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I find focus pretty overrated for open world stuff because well… maybe i’m just unlucky but even placing the warden well, either it dies to some spam aoe (not exactly few of those in the tower for example) or people run mobs away from it.

Sword 3, Focus 5, Sword 3 – problem solved

Staff is a really good utility/skipping weapon. I dont ever use gs anymore as its pointless. Also with staff you can troll teammates in arah. People carefulling avoiding risen illusionists? Pop chaos storm on their heads. Watch them panic dodge and almost die of shock.

Lol sadist … I like that :o xD

GS is not pointless – it’s exactly the opposite – a giant lazorpointer. Its good for trashmobs and tagging.

I would need a 3rd weapon swap to use a greatsword. It just sits in my bag while I use twin fiery dragon swords, a staff, and traveller runes. But yeah… that greatsword, it’s always tempting.

In before Cosley has full on diarrhea in the thread about GS.

calavel.6249:

I’m not a huge fan of the GS. It’s got some fun skills and good DPS. but I hate the fact that any enemy can kitten the auto-attack just by staying close to you. Are there any other weapon skills in the game that have that restriction?

All ranged weapon skills have that restriction. You dont exactly see a Guardian constantly swatting you with 1 when you’re behind him… Mesmer still have it good to be able to deploy clones behind on the run as long as the target is in range, no other class can do anything close.

And yes, its my biggest pet peeve. I’m an oddball that even prefer the greatsword in zerg fights (guild raids) and when it works it work great – basicly you got the power of the sword at any range, giving you instant response and more survivability. BUT when it dont work you’re shooting blanks. Autotargetting is… not good. I swear over it constantly. I had moments where I wreck absolute havoc to large groups and I have had even more moments when I wonder wtf just happened because I walked through 50 people without doing an ounce of damage.

However I consider that a way to make the game more difficult to me. I want to learn how deal with it and I want to become good at it. If I didnt have small personal goals like this in GW2 I would have been bored long ago.

@Dawdler. Just curious to know what your gs/staff mantra build looks like. Mind sharing it? Thanks

Dont have a build link, but to make it short – Any combination of 0/X/X/X/0, you want (currently testing 0/25/20/25/0 for a change, usually run 0/30/20/20/0). Mantra healing, staff trait are the primary traits, the rest I swap depending on what I feel like and the zerg size. Soldiers/knights armor with cavalier/soldier trinkets. Buffed one should achieve around 2000 power, 2000 precision, 2000 toughness, 1500 vitality, 50-60% crit dmg. Mantra heal, cleansing mantra, stability mantra, then whatever of your choosing (often times than not veil for guild runs). When I get gored of mantra healing I just swap that trait for something else and change the heal to ether feast.

Yeah, I can never decide so I call it an omni-build
The only thing I cant do is conditions (healing dont count since its totally worthless on a Mesmer).

Xyonon.3987:

Lol sadist … I like that :o xD

GS is not pointless – it’s exactly the opposite – a giant lazorpointer. Its good for trashmobs and tagging.

If you want a pointer press CTRL + T on what you want to point at.

Phantasmal Warden cleave, sword auto cleave and temporal curtain for positioning to enable the cleave are better for trash mobs and tagging, if that’s even a relevant quality for a weapon.

The way things are now, torch has more use for stealth sections than the greatsword which is useless and only used by either bads who like to delude themselves in to thinking it’s useful, people who have been told it’s good damage and then decent players who just haven’t got round to buying a scepter.

To be honest, mesmer dps is pretty poor all around, ANet needs to stick some personal damage modifier traits in so that you can build for phantasm dps or personal DPS. Then you can use phantasm builds for roaming WvW or PvP (depends whether they’re meta of course) and focus on personal DPS traits for PvE. I mean if you take a look at a stock 30/25/0/0/15 warrior build, you have 15%+ from berserker’s power, 10%+ from slashing power, 10%+ modifier on enemies with bleeding and I think a 4%+ increase at low endurance which leaves you a multiplicative 39%+ in modifiers versus a 10/30/0/20/10 mesmer build which as far as I know only has a damage boost from number of charged mantras. Same applies for ranger, their DPS takes a pretty big hit when their pet is down.

I’m not a huge fan of the GS. It’s got some … and good DPS

Said no decent player ever.

I don’t have too much issue with the warden placement. I USED to hate it but its not so bad, basically this is strange but all im doing currently with these chamber instances or the dungeon, is run into the middle of the mobs, if its tough i’d stealth first, then LOL cuz most / half of pve mobs are melee they’ll rush me then i pop my warden, blurred frenzy burst, which keeps me from taking any damage, and weird cuz this works, i do sword 3, and swap right away like right in melee so they’re immobilized for a few more seconds on the warden eating the full chain, while i switch to staff which has hydromancer aoe chill, where i chaos storm and phase retreat out. that is just… SO FUN and fast and so much damage. For other situations where kiting is necessary thats when i feel theres like an option for gs or staff or both or whatever

But yeah… ahhhh lol i feel that the look of my mesmer now is kinda dark so swords fit its look. so ill just pop on my swords for looks i guess :< that makes me feel bad tho.

Does anyone know the math though, like a relative estimate, if a group of mobs are eating your chaos storm and staff phantasm + phantasm clones for the full duration. Let’s just say like a single target right now. as opposed to mirror blade + gs izerker + autoattack? (talking about base damage)

Xyonon.3987:

You can knock them back 600 range with a long cd. Also there are tons of small rooms where no long range is possible. In groups you have to melee enemies for the additional boons you get. GS is a very situational weapon, it’s not made for the “all the time” usage.

I run GS and sword/focus all the time, no other weapon switching takes place (use of staff, etc., nothing other than GS and sword/focus), there is nothing in WvW and PvE that I cannot handle with those two weapon sets, nothing.

If I had a legendary, I’d have a hard time not using it. Even if it was a greatsword, which seems to be everywhere I look.

That said, I rarely use my greatsword. At any given time, I have two swords, a focus, a staff and a greatsword. My default loadout is sword/sword and staff. The focus comes out for some group affairs and reflect-spam. The greatsword only comes out for lazy tag-spam.

Those all occupy the same weapon slot. My staff never leaves. It has become too ingrained into my playstyle. Every build I make starts with 20 in Chaos for Master of Manipulation and Chaotic Dampening. In a panic situation, I need that one weapon that I’m comfortable with and know will be always there. The same goes with Blink. In a pinch, I know I can rely on the fact that that one thumb button will always be Blink and I don’t have to think about it.

Rigel.3092:

Xyonon.3987:

You can knock them back 600 range with a long cd. Also there are tons of small rooms where no long range is possible. In groups you have to melee enemies for the additional boons you get. GS is a very situational weapon, it’s not made for the “all the time” usage.

I run GS and sword/focus all the time, no other weapon switching takes place (use of staff, etc., nothing other than GS and sword/focus), there is nothing in WvW and PvE that I cannot handle with those two weapon sets, nothing.

You also can run scepter/torch and handle everything. Probably even easier but it takes hours to do it. Except the sword, the mesmer has no “allways useful” weapons. If I see somone using the GS in caudecus villa in all those small rooms, I’m like “… seriously?”

Xyonon.3987:

If I see somone using the GS in caudecus villa in all those small rooms, I’m like “… seriously?”

Which matter why exactly? Even at point blank range the greatsword kill single targets nearly as fast as sword/sword so unless you’re a speed running min/maxer that like to complain on peoples weapon of choice it doesnt really matter. Yes yes the latter combo does have higher dps but we’re talking about that big bad mob dying in 30 seconds instead of 36 seconds.

But hey maybe I’m damaged from that one time doing CoE with melee Guardians and Warriors that died before last path 2 Subject Alpha even got to 80% HP (AoE circles ftw) and left me alone to solo him with greatsword/staff O____O

Point blank range is melee right? And you say your greatsword kills single targets nearly as fast as a sword/sword in melee?! If colesy reads this, he vomits his rage through the screen right into your face o.O

Honestly – just went ingame. Sword autoattack of 10 sec deals 11000 damage uncritted against dummies. GS aa in melee does 5000 damage uncritted, max range 8500 over the same time. Do I have to mention the cleave whereas the GS has a much more difficult “aoe” to land.

So we are talking about the “big bad mob” that is dying in 30 sec instead of 45 or 60 sec… Lets say 60, you won’t recive any buffs at max range, will you? But to be fair I have to admit that melee has to dodge sometimes wich takes away damage again. So 45 instead 30 sec. Pretty good to have +33% damage isnt it? But again → cleave eh…

You also can solo him melee with mantras :P But yea I had that szenario too once, but I was using Staff, Scepter, Sword for blocks.