Guild Wars 2

Purecura.1795:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I used to call for nerfs on mesmers with a fervor.
but that is now history.

some days ago I created a mesmer, played it, learned it in better detail, and now my opinion is that while it is insanely strong in the hands of a pro versus a lot of current builds/classes, it is not undefeatable.

I watched a pro condi PU mesmer take on two thiefs, one average thief, one pro thief.
the mesmer downed the average thief, but didn’t manage to stomp.
And then, the average thief got ressed by the other pro thief.
both thiefs are d/p btw.
the pro condi mesmer continued fighting both thieves for close to 15 minutes. no one else fell, then the fight broke up as other players joined in.
but the point is, the mesmer actually held off both thieves for 15minutes, one of whom I know is very good, and almost killed the other average thief.

I think the OPness is that mesmers have high invis uptime, and a mimic skill that allows quick recharge of say blink, or invis, and a mantra(stun/cleanse/heal) that can be stored and used again in battle for up to 4-6 times(traited)

This is quite the insane disengage and sustain/damage depending on the mesmer’s build. However, I think that what it has done is made mesmers a lot more challenging to fight against now.

New tactics need to be used against them. For example, if they blink to create distance, dont run through their clones to get to them unless you got an instant gap closer available, run in the opposite direction. if they want the kill, make them work for it.

If they go invis, don’t random dodge/block because their invis uptime is very long and they can engage at any of those seconds. however, you could count to 5 and if they have not engaged, you may want to random dodge since their invis will be running out around that time or up to 8 seconds if they had invis using their elite.

Also when they appear from invis, don’t be too quick to hit them with a killer move because chances are they got an aegis up!

The same pro condi mesmer, I fought him with my necro, and killed him with two well timed condi transfers. (he killed me 3 times before I killed him though cause I didn’t time the transfers well and got blocked by his aegis and dodges and I tried to get to him by running through all his clones when he blinked away to recast his mantra)

My point is, they are strong yes. but they are still flesh and blood and can be killed.

This is coming from the former number 1 mesmer nerfer.
Please stop the mesmer hate.

Edit: I also saw a very pro warrior kill a decent condi PU mesmer. what the warrior did was kite and opened up the distance from the mesmer/clones with his GS when he had too much condi stacks on him. Then engage and try to catch the mesmer with his mace/shield stuns and bursting him with the GS. He did this a few times and was never in danger or dying to the PU condi mesmer. On the other hand, the PU mesmer was always the one who seemed more likely to die and in the end the mesmer did lose.

Edit2: so far I’ve been talking about PU condi mesmers above, the only power stun/interrupt mesmer I fought was once only. I lost, but he almost died as well. Was very close so I wouldn’t say they are impossible to fight against either.

Oh and btw, all of the above is my experience in WvW only.

WOW thank you for this. Sharing this on my POST

This. PU Mesmer is fine. People are complaining because they just dont know HOW to deal with the new Mesmer. But that does not mean we are invincible. Just not as easy to kill, like before.

You know, it’s really not that much different than the first six months of the game when people were fighting thieves complaining about damage coming from nowhere. Learn the class mechanic, learn to count and then learn to counter. So many people don’t want to put in the work and as such you get the QQ we’re seeing.

Mind you I’m not saying things are perfect but for sure the people who have put in the time certainly aren’t the ones qq’ing as much. Those people are actually adapting.

notorious.9071:

Firelysm.4967:

2ND on my favourite list is shatter nerf which can deal 22k damage on target with 3,3k ARMOR and 26k HP.

I don’t think a 25 might stacked, 3 clone mesmer can can deal anywhere near 20k damage, even against a 25 vulnerability stacked thief.

If you’re gonna post numbers then you gotta be realistic.

Enough realism for you? This happens alot as the combo is EXTREMELY Simple to land in team fights. It’s actually so easy that I, who doesn’t main mesmer but plays it alot was able to get this combo down in a matter of minutes and use it on good players effectively. If I get stunned i don’t even need to use my stun break for burst, I can distort if I get into trouble, invis and repeat the cycle in a matter of seconds after mind wrack goes off cd. Cool stuff! It’s actually fun playing mesmer right now because it feels so powerful. I’m not great by any means, but it’s really dumb right now lol.

blitzkrieg.2451:

notorious.9071:

Firelysm.4967:

2ND on my favourite list is shatter nerf which can deal 22k damage on target with 3,3k ARMOR and 26k HP.

I don’t think a 25 might stacked, 3 clone mesmer can can deal anywhere near 20k damage, even against a 25 vulnerability stacked thief.

If you’re gonna post numbers then you gotta be realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ

Enough realism for you? This happens alot as the combo is EXTREMELY Simple to land in team fights. It’s actually so easy that I, who doesn’t main mesmer but plays it alot was able to get this combo down in a matter of minutes and use it on good players effectively. If I get stunned i don’t even need to use my stun break for burst, I can distort if I get into trouble, invis and repeat the cycle in a matter of seconds after mind wrack goes off cd. Cool stuff! It’s actually fun playing mesmer right now because it feels so powerful. I’m not great by any means, but it’s really dumb right now lol.

So those tests required power block and to be hit by the full iZerker spin, which to any non-afk person is an instant cue to dodge…

Sorry but tests on someone who is giving the most opportune way to land it and makes no attempt to dodge tells us very little. You land a 100b with quickness and it will deal a lot more than that and it’s one button. Should we nerd 100b? No because you’d have to be brain dead to be caught in it without it being set up.

This is without my comment that from what I gather it was warlord of chaos doing those bursts which he messed up even in testing on a perfectly set up target. Not a slight on him but he’s a lot more experienced than the average mesmer.

Besides, from what’s been said in the perma stealth thread it looks like the torch trait is what’s wrong with all this misgivings people have on stealth.

I m ranger on 25 hp and 2800 armour.

Yestarday vs shatter mesm: stealth and….23k dmg instant kill and gg.

Ty Anet for this new totally broken class!!

The same can be said of those snipers that shot you to 0 from where you can’t even see them or hit them.

There are a lot of traits that mitigate and prevent the burst. But don’t ask those players about that kind of traits , they don’t want to know anything about them.

Aside of the profession, the actual burst and overall damage is high. If devs decide to maintain it. Perhaps it’s time to use the tools that the game provide. Like those mentioned traits, etc. Now, the armor not help you that much. I think that, perhaps, they want that those traits gain relevance and be used more. It is your choice to use them or not, at your own risk.

We will see what they decide.

Purecura.1795:

This. PU Mesmer is fine. People are complaining because they just dont know HOW to deal with the new Mesmer. But that does not mean we are invincible. Just not as easy to kill, like before.

Except running a PU mesmer is faceroll easy to play, and the counterplay is limited relative to where it should be. If you don’t think PU is dead easy, or that mesmers were easy kills before the PU buff, then the l2p issue isn’t with people calling for a nerf to PU.

Choppy.4183:

Purecura.1795:

This. PU Mesmer is fine. People are complaining because they just dont know HOW to deal with the new Mesmer. But that does not mean we are invincible. Just not as easy to kill, like before.

Except running a PU mesmer is faceroll easy to play, and the counterplay is limited relative to where it should be. If you don’t think PU is dead easy, or that mesmers were easy kills before the PU buff, then the l2p issue isn’t with people calling for a nerf to PU.

Pu makes escaping easy. If that’s what you consider face roll, then it stands to reason that all these warriors are upset since they had the monopoly on disengagements. The only difference is being able to see the opponent flee.

denis.9487:

Pu makes escaping easy. If that’s what you consider face roll, then it stands to reason that all these warriors are upset since they had the monopoly on disengagements. The only difference is being able to see the opponent flee.

Easy escape is one of the things it allows you to do. It also gives you quite a lot of breathing room in a fight to get to your heal, recharge your illusion-generating potential, reposition for another burst, and a long time frame in which to choose when to initiate your burst, whether at range or melee.

Mesmer CDs on offense and defense are relatively short, and the stealth bonus on PU really allows someone using it to maximize that advantage. If you’re just using PU to run away, you’re missing out on its in-combat potential.

PU hasn’t changed. It just is now available to power builds. There is nothing wrong with it. Mesmers are designed to be extremely evasive and bursty. Before it was a joke, because after about a year of the game (sooner for others) people started realize that the AI sucked and the clones really didn’t hide you as well as they should. The stealth now allows us to have that added and needed evasion from before. Considering that if you do hit us, we are squishy.

Anet needs to make it so that stealth has a trade off with damage. If you have lots of stealth, you need to sacrifice damage. If you have low damage, you can stealth.

The complaint about stealth is (and always has been) about the lack of counterplay. It’s not a boon – you can’t remove it. It’s not even a buff like berserker’s or endure pain because you don’t know when it’s going to end and you can’t see the remaining time. In any case, the stealthed person can even choose to end it prematurely.

Now if Anet gave all professions something like the engi’s revealed skill, that would cut down the complaints on stealth significantly. There needs to be something you can do to counter stealth other than simply trying to anticipate a burst, or dodge randomly, or use your CDs.

If Anet cannot provide counterplay to stealth, then make it so that we have to sacrifice damage.

After a long time, I learned about a thief’s weakness in stealth…they have to be close in to land their burst. So autoattacking around made sense. And you knew both the duration as well as the approximate location of the thief. This made it possible for me as a mesmer use my block skills strategically. Unless the thief used shadow refuge, which as everyone knows has its own counterplay.

But mesmer stealth comes with no drawbacks. No counterplay. The mesmer can burst from ahead, or from behind. From far, or from near. Not to mention even the Counfounding Suggestions doesn’t reveal the mesmer without the Power Block trait (and that too on interrupt)!

Counterplay. That’s the key – everything needs to have counterplay.

This is also the reason for the complaints about the constant instant chained stuns. Stunbreakers typically have long CDs and a mesmer can chain together six instant stuns (even from stealth and without reveal!).

Counterplay. That’s all people are asking for.

@bhagwad
Counterplay. Yeah, that’s pretty much it there. But, imo, a better route to counterplay isn’t increasing the amount of revealing skills out there, it’s making it so the stealths provide short-term tactical advantage and nothing more.

Both thieves and mesmers should have effective stealths… it makes combat more dynamic and interesting. If everyone has access to revealing skills, then it effectively kills stealth.

If you make it so stealth isn’t stackable and just long enough for someone to reposition in a fight (and gain a damage bonus, for thieves), or to get a reasonable head start on a retreat, then that’s fine. The person not in stealth isn’t a total sitting duck, and the person using stealth still gets a big advantage.

For me, that leaves enough room for counterplay without completely borking the value of stealth (and the classes built around it).

Lol there is counter play. I’ve been using it for years on Mes against theifs. Its called AOEs, Knockbacks, and pulls. Play a thief or a mesmer for a while and you’ll learn how people typically path while stealthing. Then its pretty easy to attack someone in stealth.

Kusa.6438:

Lol there is counter play. I’ve been using it for years on Mes against theifs. Its called AOEs, Knockbacks, and pulls. Play a thief or a mesmer for a while and you’ll learn how people typically path while stealthing. Then its pretty easy to attack someone in stealth.

We use AoE, knockbacks and pulls on regular enemies as well. Those are not stealth specific counterplays. Not to mention that these skills have long CDs. AoEs also work on thieves because they have to be in proximity to you, so you have a decent bead on their location. If a stealthed thief is at a distance, the threat is much lower.

With the ability of a mesmer to burst from even a short range however, AoEs are not enough. And of course, the ability to stealth is far greater than the CDs of any AoEs, knockbacks and pulls at your disposal. Could you let me know which knockbacks can be spammed with the same frequency a mesmer can stealth? I’d like to see that skill!

And I’ve been playing on mes since beta. Thief stealth is far easier to counter than mesmer stealth.

I’ve been playing mesmer since beta as well. I have over 4000 hours on me mesmer.
Really doesn’t constitute anything. Mesmers have three stealth they really use, all 3 are on long cds. Torch is 30 (unless traited), decoy on 40, and mass invis on 72.
Yet people make it seem like we can perma stealth.

What I hear is basically people have learned how to fight thieves but now that Mesmers are in a good spot damage wise, we are considered “broken” or OP. Because before this patch, Mesmers were never a threat. Now that we can hold our own and more without being a shatter Mesmer, people have issues. Thief stealth and Mesmer stealth have their differences, specially when applying burst or dealing conditions. Every class has their defensive options and offensive options depending on their build.

And Mesmers have their stealth. We are squishy, mages are squishy, glass cannon. Get it? We have to hit hard, not hit less. Defeats the purpose of being a squishy Mage.

Torch cool down if traited can get horrifically short, think I got the prestige down to a 13s cool down by sitting in stealth the whole time.

Change the way that cool down works and you will at most be able to get 22s of stealth from a PU mesmer without them showing up. They would then have a 2-4s cool down before torch is ready again (assuming no mimic or veil) to feed into decoy and then they’re out of stealth 12s later with MI still on a sizeable cool down.

Firelysm.4967:

It’s fun for you, and it’s nothing near fun for other people playing versus mesmer with 30% unjustified damage where you can to easily apply conditions and shatter damage on satter mesmer.. while not even geting punished for it. You just apply condis on poor thing, then hide, while the target trying to find you, specially melee will die jsut by standing, and even faster by searching for you.

PU mesmers is number one on my favourite nerf list.
Next one is new “EAZ PZ SHATTER THIS” build.. where requires to press 3 buttons very quickly to make 14k damage. This is not how it should be, every class has insane cast time to make this happend, and then execution, mesmer can deal that damage within 2 second time lapse from casting to damage done, which includes also walking to the target.

2ND on my favourite list is shatter nerf which can deal 22k damage on target with 3,3k ARMOR and 26k HP. Is this single rotation justified ? No.

I’m not having desire to nerf anything to the ground, all i want is equal balance, and fair play. Both PU and shatter hit way to hard, and both are having little to no counter in 1v1 2v1, people say don’t exegerate but my friend yesterday outplayed 2v8, killed 3 and got away with Shatter mesmer, came back and killed the other 4 trying to ress those pore guys. Keep in mind they were all above silver, so those were not some bronze scrubs that just made virgin steps into WvW.

NOTE: some builds are out of place, some are very weak, and my desire is that every style should have a chance to be played, and at least little viable, and every build should have counter by every profession not just D/D ele.

And i thought it was bad when people claimed PU gives you 20 stacks of might.

Levetty.1279:

And i thought it was bad when people claimed PU gives you 20 stacks of might.

I hear PU mesmers can teleport 2000 range every second they’re in stealth and can see other stealthed targets. Also that PU turns all of mesmers skills into Backstab so Mirror Blade just becomes 4 consecutive backstabs. I main mesmer though so it’s ok, you know I’m not over-exaggerating.

I have mained Mesmer since I started playing Guild Wars 2, back in November of 2012. I’ve watched Mr.Prometheus old extensive YouTube video about the profession, spent hours upon hours in PvP, PvE, and WvW. Yet before this latest patch, I always felt like, Mesmers always had to pull of intricate, puzzle like maneuvers in order to get any sort of decent damage in, compared to other professions easy burst combos.

That always frustrated me as a lover of the Profession. Now that our damage has been boosted up, across all builds of condi and power, other people are complaining. This truly displeases me because people are acting as if the class cannot be beaten now, but what I really see, are people whining about how they could kill the class before without thinking twice, but now, they actually have to work hard.

Purecura.1795:

This truly displeases me because people are acting as if the class cannot be beaten now, but what I really see, are people whining about how they could kill the class before without thinking twice, but now, they actually have to work hard.

That’s because it’s what you want to see. While Mesmer required some finesse before, it wasn’t the most complicated class to play and was actually more accessible than the gw1 mesmer.

Now it’s insanely easy to play, and a major threat to boot. Not invincible against everything, obviously, but definitely not balanced.

Mesmers weren’t free bags before either. You’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Lest my comment be interpreted otherwise, I don’t think mesmers as a class should be reverted to pre-patch, and I don’t think they should be hard to play. But get real.

Choppy.4183:

Purecura.1795:

This truly displeases me because people are acting as if the class cannot be beaten now, but what I really see, are people whining about how they could kill the class before without thinking twice, but now, they actually have to work hard.

That’s because it’s what you want to see. While Mesmer required some finesse before, it wasn’t the most complicated class to play and was actually more accessible than the gw1 mesmer.

Now it’s insanely easy to play, and a major threat to boot. Not invincible against everything, obviously, but definitely not balanced.

Mesmers weren’t free bags before either. You’re fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Lest my comment be interpreted otherwise, I don’t think mesmers as a class should be reverted to pre-patch, and I don’t think they should be hard to play. But get real.

You’re fooling yourself by saying they weren’t free bags pre patch. Everyone except guardian had better mobility than mesmer. The only thing a mesmer could do to escape a bad situation in WvW find a nice place to port up to where the enemy would take longer to get there. If not, they were chased down and murdered with ease and I say that as someone who has chased down and murdered them on all classes and being on the other end of it.

PvP it’s much easier because of point mechanics and the rediculous amount of stuff to LoS behind.

apharma.3741:

You’re fooling yourself by saying they weren’t free bags pre patch. Everyone except guardian had better mobility than mesmer. The only thing a mesmer could do to escape a bad situation in WvW find a nice place to port up to where the enemy would take longer to get there. If not, they were chased down and murdered with ease and I say that as someone who has chased down and murdered them on all classes and being on the other end of it.

PvP it’s much easier because of point mechanics and the rediculous amount of stuff to LoS behind.

So you weren’t able to win fights as a mesmer pre-patch? I have a hard time believing you had to run from most fights and, not having enough disengage, became a free bag.

That’s not what you’re saying, is it? Shatter mesmers were very effective in wvw pre-patch, and condi mesmers had their hey day too. They were also an integral part of wvw gank squads.

Also, necros. They were much easier to hold down if they needed to escape than mesmers.

Choppy.4183:

apharma.3741:

You’re fooling yourself by saying they weren’t free bags pre patch. Everyone except guardian had better mobility than mesmer. The only thing a mesmer could do to escape a bad situation in WvW find a nice place to port up to where the enemy would take longer to get there. If not, they were chased down and murdered with ease and I say that as someone who has chased down and murdered them on all classes and being on the other end of it.

PvP it’s much easier because of point mechanics and the rediculous amount of stuff to LoS behind.

So you weren’t able to win fights as a mesmer pre-patch? I have a hard time believing you had to run from most fights and, not having enough disengage, became a free bag.

That’s not what you’re saying, is it? Shatter mesmers were very effective in wvw pre-patch, and condi mesmers had their hey day too. They were also an integral part of wvw gank squads.

Also, necros. They were much easier to hold down if they needed to escape than mesmers.

Pre patch shatter Mesmer was the hardest to play solo roam because we had no sustain. Post patch we still can shatter but now have sustain either with chaos of inspiration. What you see is a threat to your warrior class why you constantly complain. Mesmer is viable burst wise with or without pu. Pre patch we had pu builds hence the nerf added more boons.

If you had a party, they generally gave you what you needed, especially thieves (stealth) warriors (swiftness) and eles (condi cleanses) which were all abundant whatever you did. Solo it was a different story.

Don’t take my word for it, go solo roaming with this build and see for yourself. I left out trait options as they either weren’t what people usually ran or they ran traits that were made baseline. Even just jump into WvW with your group and see.

Feel free to switch to S/T as well and see how it works for you.

Edit, lol forgot about golem rush, try the best you can this week but definitely try next week when things get back to normal.

denis.9487:

Pre patch shatter Mesmer was the hardest to play solo roam because we had no sustain. Post patch we still can shatter but now have sustain either with chaos of inspiration. What you see is a threat to your warrior class why you constantly complain. Mesmer is viable burst wise with or without pu. Pre patch we had pu builds hence the nerf added more boons.

So you’re saying the reason mesmers seemed strong pre-patch is because I was mostly running a warrior and they were a hard counter? Could be, I certainly wouldn’t have had a lot of experience playing against them on other classes then.

Still, the people I know who main mesmers certainly weren’t complaining about it, and it wasn’t as though roaming mesmers were in short supply. I saw them about as much as I saw roaming necros, guardians, and probably engineers. That would put them in the middle of the pack as far as roaming went, so presumably they were meeting with at least some success. I don’t expect many people would login to be a bag delivery service.

As for your build, my mesmer skill probably isn’t high enough yet to warrant passing up the PU crutch. I could try it though (after the golem week)… I was thinking about doing it soon anyway. With PU, it’s insanely easy.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Pre patch shatter Mesmer was the hardest to play solo roam because we had no sustain. Post patch we still can shatter but now have sustain either with chaos of inspiration. What you see is a threat to your warrior class why you constantly complain. Mesmer is viable burst wise with or without pu. Pre patch we had pu builds hence the nerf added more boons.

So you’re saying the reason mesmers seemed strong pre-patch is because I was mostly running a warrior and they were a hard counter? Could be, I certainly wouldn’t have had a lot of experience playing against them on other classes then.

Still, the people I know who main mesmers certainly weren’t complaining about it, and it wasn’t as though roaming mesmers were in short supply. I saw them about as much as I saw roaming necros, guardians, and probably engineers. That would put them in the middle of the pack as far as roaming went, so presumably they were meeting with at least some success. I don’t expect many people would login to be a bag delivery service.

You saw condition pu roaming builds. Again shatter was very unforgiving due to the sustain issue. Now having 3 trait lines you have the burst plus either more invis (chaos) or more condition plus healing management (inspiration). And yes Mesmer was a food item unless running condition pu (was nerfed already watered down boons) or stealth shatter just if you missed the burst you were dead so not to many ran this pre patch (not fun dying and running back). Power pu had a small window but again couldn’t beat certain classes ie a warrior due to only having 1 damaging phantasm. Torch phantasm sucks for dps. Again since damage is high for everyone I can run torch for defense but since shatters hurt now it actually works. Also stealth is needed for Mesmer, we are a light armored class the gimmick of clones confusing players is gone unless a new player.

I may have misunderstood you. In no way was the shatter mesmer at a disadvantage against warriors in a roaming situation, assuming equal skill level. Most roaming warriors had to run melee stance and we’re predicated on stunning you to land a burst. The smart mesmers knew to keep distance as long as a hammer or axe was out (depending on build, all ran gs). That kept the warrior damage pressure down and kept the shatter mes the favourite to win.

Shoutbow is probably an exception…. I didn’t see many warriors roaming with it, even though it was viable for roaming, but I expect it would have had the build advantage. In part because shoutbow was too strong, especially in small groups.

If you stumbled across a zerg warrior who’d lost his way, it’d take you a while to kill him, but you should have won with a shatter mesmer. A killshot warrior could have ended you if you weren’t careful, but ks wasn’t a particularly viable roaming build. Most people only ran it for the lulz, and few did even that.

I can totally see how most thieves would be favoured to win against a prepatch mesmer though. Don’t know about the other classes.

In terms of roaming Condi mesmers, definitely. But more last year or so. The tactic was about the same as it is now… Get the phantasms and chaos shield up, kite around, and out sustain. It was effective too, though much more so now. Shatter mesmer was the most common prepatch roaming mesmer build by far.

Bottom line though, unless mesmers were only effective against roaming warriors (which I’ve never heard before), they weren’t bottom of the class bag farms. Moreover, people aren’t complaining about mesmers because they think they should be easy kills, they’re comparing them to fighting other classes.

I think your roaming experience was different than mine. Nike warriors pre patch dominated Mesmer due to being able to disengage and come back. Also pre patch running shatter taking gs/ sword torch was a serious disadvantage against a warrior. The healing signet kept you safe. Switching to sword pistol gs gave you more power but at a cost. Pre patch shatter had really poor disengage when compared to warrior. Your right kite but warrior bad enough gap closers for closing and disengaging.

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Most of the mesmer main said that mesmer has a high skill cap after patch but i just saw this vid and mesmer rn has a low skill cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtf63IpFLHw

It’s sorta adorable that you think a shatter montage is justification for literally anything.

I think you don’t get what i want to say when i post this? do you remember when a warrior Hambow healing signet is a thing that they can just stand and win even not outplaying the other player? What i want to say is that those kind of build should not exist because it makes the game boring. And same with this build.

You’re trying to say that mesmer has a low skill cap based off of a WvW shatter montage. I’m laughing at you for doing so.

Whatever dude this show that guild wars 2 players as long they main the class they won’t admit if it’s broken. Guild Wars 2 player always my class is not broken but other class is so please nerf them. I only main a warrior and i admit that some of the build is broken and that’s why i stop playing for now in spvp because everybody there thinks they are pro. And i’m calling mesmer has a low skill cap base on some broken builds if you can’t admit it then fine.

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Most of the mesmer main said that mesmer has a high skill cap after patch but i just saw this vid and mesmer rn has a low skill cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtf63IpFLHw

It’s sorta adorable that you think a shatter montage is justification for literally anything.

I think you don’t get what i want to say when i post this? do you remember when a warrior Hambow healing signet is a thing that they can just stand and win even not outplaying the other player? What i want to say is that those kind of build should not exist because it makes the game boring. And same with this build.

You’re trying to say that mesmer has a low skill cap based off of a WvW shatter montage. I’m laughing at you for doing so.

Whatever dude this show that guild wars 2 players as long they main the class they won’t admit if it’s broken. Guild Wars 2 player always my class is not broken but other class is so please nerf them. I only main a warrior and i admit that some of the build is broken and that’s why i stop playing for now in spvp because everybody there thinks they are pro. And i’m calling mesmer has a low skill cap base on some broken builds if you can’t admit it then fine.

No, what you’re doing is making a fool of yourself. You clearly don’t understand what a skill cap is. You clearly don’t understand how little a shatter montage demonstrates anything. You clearly have only a tenuous grasp of how to formulate a coherent argument, and all of this is displayed clearly for anyone looking at this conversation.

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Fay.2357:

jayson.6512:

Most of the mesmer main said that mesmer has a high skill cap after patch but i just saw this vid and mesmer rn has a low skill cap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtf63IpFLHw

It’s sorta adorable that you think a shatter montage is justification for literally anything.

I think you don’t get what i want to say when i post this? do you remember when a warrior Hambow healing signet is a thing that they can just stand and win even not outplaying the other player? What i want to say is that those kind of build should not exist because it makes the game boring. And same with this build.

You’re trying to say that mesmer has a low skill cap based off of a WvW shatter montage. I’m laughing at you for doing so.

Whatever dude this show that guild wars 2 players as long they main the class they won’t admit if it’s broken. Guild Wars 2 player always my class is not broken but other class is so please nerf them. I only main a warrior and i admit that some of the build is broken and that’s why i stop playing for now in spvp because everybody there thinks they are pro. And i’m calling mesmer has a low skill cap base on some broken builds if you can’t admit it then fine.

No, what you’re doing is making a fool of yourself. You clearly don’t understand what a skill cap is. You clearly don’t understand how little a shatter montage demonstrates anything. You clearly have only a tenuous grasp of how to formulate a coherent argument, and all of this is displayed clearly for anyone looking at this conversation.

Seems most of those complaining about the Mesmer, do not really make any sense at all. Seems most are upset that we can enter stealth and burst “safely” from stealth. Seems most are reluctant to learn how to counter us, so they complain we are OP, and we need a NERF. I find that highly unfair.

Purecura.1795:

Seems most of those complaining about the Mesmer, do not really make any sense at all. Seems most are upset that we can enter stealth and burst “safely” from stealth. Seems most are reluctant to learn how to counter us, so they complain we are OP, and we need a NERF. I find that highly unfair.

What’s the counter to long mesmer stealths, occasionally combined with aegis? Are you going to suggest stealth traps like someone did in the other thread?

Choppy.4183:

Purecura.1795:

Seems most of those complaining about the Mesmer, do not really make any sense at all. Seems most are upset that we can enter stealth and burst “safely” from stealth. Seems most are reluctant to learn how to counter us, so they complain we are OP, and we need a NERF. I find that highly unfair.

What’s the counter to long mesmer stealths, occasionally combined with aegis? Are you going to suggest stealth traps like someone did in the other thread?

The boons are short lived hasn’t changed from pre patch. My suggestion is learn to count higher post patch.

denis.9487:

The boons are short lived hasn’t changed from pre patch. My suggestion is learn to count higher post patch.

I really get the sense you haven’t fought many mesmers running PU as a non mesmer.

The aegis is what prevents your opponent from getting lucky and hitting you while you’re stealthed, which can occasionally tip them off that you’re there if an air or fire sigil procs.

The length of the stealth matters because it gives you a longer timeframe in which to choose when to end the stealth. With thieves, they usually have a few seconds and they have to get to melee, so you can anticipate that hit with greater accuracy. With mesmers, they don’t really have to close (better for their damage if they do, but not necessary), they don’t need the full amount of time to reposition, and can even extend the stealth without giving a tell, if they want, which is something a thief often can’t do in a fight.

So, again, where’s the counterplay there?

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

The boons are short lived hasn’t changed from pre patch. My suggestion is learn to count higher post patch.

I really get the sense you haven’t fought many mesmers running PU as a non mesmer.

The aegis is what prevents your opponent from getting lucky and hitting you while you’re stealthed, which can occasionally tip them off that you’re there if an air or fire sigil procs.

The length of the stealth matters because it gives you a longer timeframe in which to choose when to end the stealth. With thieves, they usually have a few seconds and they have to get to melee, so you can anticipate that hit with greater accuracy. With mesmers, they don’t really have to close (better for their damage if they do, but not necessary), they don’t need the full amount of time to reposition, and can even extend the stealth without giving a tell, if they want, which is something a thief often can’t do in a fight.

So, again, where’s the counterplay there?

Again boons been there pre patch. Count higher. Don’t duel or duel with rules and don’t solo roam. Since pu Mesmer is usually left till the end of engagements whether you kill or they ran still a victory.

denis.9487:

Again boons been there pre patch. Count higher. Don’t duel or duel with rules and don’t solo roam. Since pu Mesmer is usually left till the end of engagements whether you kill or they ran still a victory.

Well, you’ve more or less just conceded there’s no counterplay right there, except you still seem fixed on the notion that a PU mesmer doesn’t actually do anything in a fight, which is ridiculous.

PU condi mesmers will put a lot of condi pressure on the field, and PU shatter will do a very respectable amount of direct damage. Both could bring the ranged interrupt/cc via Mantra of Distraction if they wanted to.

In the sort of fight you’re describing, they wouldn’t even have to extend the stealths. They’d use one, and anyone chasing them would abandon target because nobody’s going to wait around for 6s doing mostly nothing, allowing the PU mesmer to come out of stealth and unload again. If they’ve taken the inspiration line, they’re bringing a bunch of support to their team, and the Mass Invisibility they’ll be packing is a game changer in any small fight.

I’m sorry, but it’s become pretty clear that you don’t really have an argument here. You also don’t appear to have any experience using PU or fighting against it. Several times now you’ve described it as a defensive trait with the chief purpose of helping a mesmer run away. Despite all these posts, you remain unaware of the enormous tactical advantage that stealth brings to a fight.

I suppose you’d be cool with a PU equivalent for thieves too then? I mean, all you’d need to do is count higher and the boons would be short lived. You could leave them till the end of the engagement and, when they ran away, it’d still be a victory.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Again boons been there pre patch. Count higher. Don’t duel or duel with rules and don’t solo roam. Since pu Mesmer is usually left till the end of engagements whether you kill or they ran still a victory.

Well, you’ve more or less just conceded there’s no counterplay right there, except you still seem fixed on the notion that a PU mesmer doesn’t actually do anything in a fight, which is ridiculous.

PU condi mesmers will put a lot of condi pressure on the field, and PU shatter will do a very respectable amount of direct damage. Both could bring the ranged interrupt/cc via Mantra of Distraction if they wanted to.

In the sort of fight you’re describing, they wouldn’t even have to extend the stealths. They’d use one, and anyone chasing them would abandon target because nobody’s going to wait around for 6s doing mostly nothing, allowing the PU mesmer to come out of stealth and unload again. If they’ve taken the inspiration line, they’re bringing a bunch of support to their team, and the Mass Invisibility they’ll be packing is a game changer in any small fight.

I’m sorry, but it’s become pretty clear that you don’t really have an argument here. You also don’t appear to have any experience using PU or fighting against it. Several times now you’ve described it as a defensive trait with the chief purpose of helping a mesmer run away. Despite all these posts, you remain unaware of the enormous tactical advantage that stealth brings to a fight.

I suppose you’d be cool with a PU equivalent for thieves too, eh? I mean, all you’d need to do is count higher and the boons would be short lived. You could leave them till the end of the engagement and, when they ran away, it’d still be a victory.

I keep avoiding the stealth burst because it can be achieved with or without pu. I don’t know what to tell you except everything from before. You switch threads doesn’t mean anything.

Your issue is with stealth in general. Adding all these extra things. Your right we can burst from stealth with or without pu. So why nerf pu? Mesmer cannot trade blows. In open field pu is annoying and will win most encounters. Move the fight to something that matters. Mesmer with all our evades stealth we will lose the circle or point.

denis.9487:

I keep avoiding the stealth burst because it can be achieved with or without pu. I don’t know what to tell you except everything from before. You switch threads doesn’t mean anything.

If true, then you wouldn’t be fighting so hard to keep the PU stealth buff.

You also dodged the stealth trait for thieves challenge. Thieves can get a burst off in the 3s provided by C&D or leaping through BP. Therefore, by your argument, giving them a +100% stealth boost and a handful of boons wouldn’t be a problem at all, correct?

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

I keep avoiding the stealth burst because it can be achieved with or without pu. I don’t know what to tell you except everything from before. You switch threads doesn’t mean anything.

If true, then you wouldn’t be fighting so hard to keep the PU stealth buff.

You also dodged the stealth trait for thieves challenge. Thieves can get a burst off in the 3s provided by C&D or leaping through BP. Therefore, by your argument, giving them a +100% stealth boost and a handful of boons wouldn’t be a problem at all, correct?

Your compairing apples to oranges. Why are you fighting so hard to nerf?

denis.9487:

Your compairing apples to oranges. Why are you fighting so hard to nerf?

Oh really? And here I thought it was just about the amount of damage that could be delivered to a target and how much you could prevent them delivering to you.

If, as you’d have it, being able to deliver a burst out of 3s of stealth is the same as having 6s to do it, and short lived boons don’t matter, and that the long stealth is really just good for getting away, there’s no real reason to expect hugely different results with thieves than mesmers.

And the reason I want it nerfed is, as I’ve said repeatedly, it lacks counterplay in its current form and completely borks the risk:reward balance.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Your compairing apples to oranges. Why are you fighting so hard to nerf?

Oh really? And here I thought it was just about the amount of damage that could be delivered to a target and how much you could prevent them delivering to you.

If, as you’d have it, being able to deliver a burst out of 3s of stealth is the same as having 6s to do it, and short lived boons don’t matter, and that the long stealth is really just good for getting away, there’s no real reason to expect hugely different results with thieves than mesmers.

And the reason I want it nerfed is, as I’ve said repeatedly, it lacks counterplay in its current form and completely borks the risk:reward balance.

Your issue is with stealth not pu. Let me say it again Mesmer can stealth burst with or without pu.

denis.9487:

Your issue is with stealth not pu. Let me say it again Mesmer can stealth burst with or without pu.

If that were true, I’d be saying stealth should be removed from mesmers (and everyone else) altogether, yet I haven’t said that at all.

Choppy.4183:

denis.9487:

Your issue is with stealth not pu. Let me say it again Mesmer can stealth burst with or without pu.

If that were true, I’d be saying stealth should be removed from mesmers (and everyone else) altogether, yet I haven’t said that at all.

Ok you want to nerf pu. All pu does is add time. No boon change same from pre patch. The burst from Mesmer is same pre patch. So by adding time it turns into some god like character? So what is a good number from pre patch to post patch? Is there a good number? When the same stuff is being done then what? imo pu is not the issue. Does pu let you bunker? Does pu allow anything more than Mesmer can already do? The answer is sit in stealth.

Thief with off hand dagger is the same troll like level in wvw. They abuse stealth off animals off you off grey creatures. Have you tried to pin one down? Should I start a thread about the unfair practices? i defend the point in wvw with my guards same as you would a Mesmer. I am using wvw since I have a funny feeling is your experience. Mesmers are using inspiration more in pvp because guess why. You can still stealth burst but inspiration gives you more sustain than pu. Pu is a troll build not arguing but plenty of troll builds. Just think your crusade is a bit much.

Choppy, stop with this thieves get 3s of stealth and have less than mesmers BS. It shows you either have no grasp on stealth and the mechanic or you need to learn to thief.

Thieves can stack stealth to stay in stealth permanently and choose when to engage. They also have a short bow for extreme gap opening if the fight goes sour and can then stealth engage after. Many are training stealth on steal as well so that’s a teleport, damage, heal, stealth into backstabbing and heartseeker.

This is without mentioning you’re mainly talking about WvW and as that other person mentioned in another thread, use stealth traps if they’re really giving you a problem.

Now, how’s that pre patch mesmer build I linked for you working for you?

People(myself included) have outlined a risks to PU in all game modes, you just choose to ignore them and spout some random cross-class comparisons. Just gonna recap them since I’m really getting tired of every other mesmer thread devolving into the same conversation.

In SPvP, stealth prevent point capture as well as point contesting, so PU is not the best choice for point to point rotating(which is what mesmer is great at). Additionally, it means you interact less with your team since the other GM trait options can be easily used to either protect an ally, buff an ally, or call target on someone and immobilize them in preparation for a coordinated burst. The tradeoff for PU is by losing that interaction with allies you gain more personal survivability as well as a way to safely reposition once you’re focused without wasting blink.

PvE doesn’t really matter as stealth skills are only used for skips anyway.

WvW. This is where all the problems come up because people keep dragging roaming into this. In Zerg v Zerg, PU probably isn’t the best option. Only a few of the boons will be useful and on top of that, AoEs will likely hit you anyway. Being in stealth for too long also means you probably are doing no damage at all since phantasms rarely stay alive for long. The other GM traits would offer more to you and your zerg.

Only reason I said stealth traps could work in the other thread is because when you’re actually playing the way game developers intended(I.E, not 1v1/small group roaming) it isn’t hard to utilize them. Stealth trap near a gate that’s about to broken down to prevent a zerg from stealthing. If it was meant for 1v1 or small group roaming in the slightest, it wouldn’t have 1200 range and a target cap of 20.

You keep saying it lacks counterplay, but what you really mean is that you can’t be bothered to actively counter it. Or you’re just talking about small group/1v1 roaming in WvW still.

It’s kinda funny when shoutbow/medi guard/cele ele/cele engi dominate the scene, teams stack those professions in PvP.

Now we are supposed to be the OP profession but hardly any team takes more than 1 mesmer. Even after patch, you see ESL teams stack ele, stack warrior, stack guardian. But I don’t see any stack mesmers. And also PU is not even a popular trait among those mesmers.

Yeah, we have CS being too strong and PU being too forgiving. Damage might be a bit too high. But it is not like you auto win by just playing mesmer. People are exaggerating things to an unimaginable level.