Guild Wars 2

Wow man, reading that really brought a smile to my face, ty!

And its funny you mention that, as I had spoken to Helseth about the very same thing. He said exactly what you just said, except that you elaborated a bit more.

I agree, too. Lockdown is a playstylestyle that you don’t necessarily have to take a bunch of traits for. As you explained, standard shatter build can very easily be adapted to have a lockdown spice just by taking Halting Strike and Mantra of Distraction. In this way you’re more versatile than your standard cookie-cutter shatter spec, and people reallyyyy don’t expect their heals to be interrupted.

It hurts my heart that you’re not running blade training with two swords, thats practically sacrilege! Yet at the same time, a traited Blink is likely much more useful for WvW. Once again, ty man. I’m honored.

Ha, yes no blade training is annoying in principle. Though illusionists celerity from Illusions line compensates, so actually all my sword cd’s except blurred frenzy, in particular my daze cd, are exactly the same as a with Mindcrush for example. So it all works out in the end.

I really feel like the lockdown play style is as core to mesmer as clones, but really that’s probably only true if you played a mesmer in gw1. Hopefully Anet will give us more tools in this direction, as mesmer is at it’s core counter play and controlling our opponents. Or instead they could give us a dumb version of Lich form…

Going into an off topic rant, but: Instead of giving us some idiotic version of a necro skill (Hey now I’m a giant purple target please focus me while I try to slap you) maybe we can get an elite on a short cd that buffs our control abilities? I hope the community really speaks up, in particular the lockdown players, to get some buffs to this core aspect of the mesmer. Right off the top of my head, if we are going to be just getting reworked versions of existing elites, let’s get a version of one of the thief poisons: “Your Mind is Mine”, your next daze is guaranteed to be a stun of the same duration. 30 sec cd. Now that would be an elite I’d take over mass invis.

Blade training and celerity stack, though it doesnt show it in the tooltip. Im not positive but Im prety sure it also stacks with Sword4.

Thats an interesting Elite idea. Another awesome elite would be if we could get some kind of AoE field that worked like Chaos Storm did when it was bugged.

Chaos it does stack with sword 4, although I am confident it doesn’t show in the tooltip. Secondly, if there was an elite added to this game, I will hope that it is some version of an aoe blackout (please <3) or something that will give us a lot of potential aoe like the leaked elite that maybe(?) is true.

Right, I just meant that I have the same sword cd’s as a 30/20/20/0/0 lockdown build a la Mindcrush, except for blurred frenzy. Of course you can take both, like in some kind of 30/20/0/0/20, but I haven’t seen anyone run something like that. So if it’s between 30/20/20/0/0 with Blade training and 20/20/0/0/30 without it, your sword cd’s are the same either way except for blurred frenzy.

Anyways, great thread and thanks for the reply!

Illusionary Riposte recharge was bugged for a long time when taking both traits (blade training/iCelerity), but it was fixed in the last patch. Tool-tips are still messed up, though.

If you didn’t know MSFone, Chaos created a build called shatterlock which is 30/10/0/0/30. You might wanna check it out :O (on phone so cant link it). If you like shatter and lockdown in one build (like I do), you could enjoy it if you are looking for a challenge.

Yes thanks, I gave a shout out to shatterlock in my first post. Great build and inspired me to go all out trying to merge lockdown and shatter. I personally just couldn’t make the shatter side work without DE. For me, if it’s between CS and DE, going shatter, it seems DE is hands down more essential.

But anyways yes, Shatterlock was the first shatter/lockdown build I tried, so again credit and thanks to Chaos for coming up with it (grats on BOTM too btw).

Since people seem to be ok with my semi-derailment, it would be cool to see more lockout focused buffs to mesmers, and lockout centric elite would be awesome. Maybe an elite signet who’s passive was increase daze duration by 25% and activate was some aoe daze or something. Super Daze Signet. Probably OP…

MSFone.3026:

Since people seem to be ok with my semi-derailment, it would be cool to see more lockout focused buffs to mesmers, and lockout centric elite would be awesome. Maybe an elite signet who’s passive was increase daze duration by 25% and activate was some aoe daze or something. Super Daze Signet. Probably OP…

It’s not a derailment, this thread is for everything lockdown.

And for an elite? That’s freakin’ brilliant! I’d love that.

Xaylin.1860:

I also switched out the Torch for a Sword. I do sometimes miss Prestige but I still get enough stealth thanks to Decoy and MI.

What would your second and third utility be?

I have gone in the opposite direction and dropped an offhand weapon with interrupt potentials (pistol/sword/focus) and picked up torch. Why? Because my utilities are all set and don’t see myself changing them. I needed a second stealth option beside MI because blink is just not enough. Also, I use mantra of distraction and resolve or disenchanter and don’t want to drop them.

Not trying to run PU with interrupts but torch allow you a slightly more laydown play style and can break up the pressure when focused (same as decoy but lower cd). It’s a perfect disengage weapon combined with good cleansing and a decent burning+blurred frenzy burst.

Just wanted to give my PoV as I recently started using torch in my lockdown build.
To finish it, I swapped CI for FI in the duelling tree. The added quickness partially make up for the loss of dps moreover it helps casting mantras or phantasms.

I am not saying is the best but overall I feel it fits me better. No CI nor CS but FI instead. Can it still be called Lockdown? I think so, yet it is different from what I have seen so far.

@ Trooper: Currently running Blink (treated), MoD, and Decoy. I actually tried running with Torch last night (in sPvP) and I found that it really didn’t add anything for me when I needed it to. I used to rely on stealth a lot, like watching Vash for instance you can see he uses it frequently, but I find that during those moments when I would go for torch sending out the daze and the swordsman tends to keep the pressure on more. I noticed that when I would stealth, because for those three seconds I wasn’t putting out pressure it actually allowed them a breather, which I think for me in a lockdown build is bad. The more I learn to get in their face and stay hyper aggressive the better it goes. So that’s why I go for sword instead of torch. I actually find the block/daze on sword is better defense that going stealth.

I’m considering giving up 10 in dom to go for Furious Interruption. I’ve never seriously tested it. Anyone have experience with it? Is it worth it over the 15 and 20 talents in Dom? Does it actually increase your dmg that much? The 15 sec cd seems a little lame, so your only getting max 3 sec of quickness per 15 sec, and you can easily land an interrupt more often than that. I guess it comes down to which adds more pressure, the 15 and 20 in dom or Furious interruption. Thoughts and experience?

MSFone.3026:

I’m considering giving up 10 in dom to go for Furious Interruption. I’ve never seriously tested it. Anyone have experience with it? Is it worth it over the 15 and 20 talents in Dom? Does it actually increase your dmg that much? The 15 sec cd seems a little lame, so your only getting max 3 sec of quickness per 15 sec, and you can easily land an interrupt more often than that. I guess it comes down to which adds more pressure, the 15 and 20 in dom or Furious interruption. Thoughts and experience?

I tried to use this trait allocation for the last 2 days for roaming and dueling. Furious Interuption worked quite well for a first burst, to decrease my heal´s casting time or to recharge my mantra. The higher crit-dmg and precision allows me to run a bit more defensive gear as well (still need some Runes of the Traveler, then I´ll use something like this). Dagger/Pistol thiefs seems to be the main problem for this kind of build because their huge blind and stealth uptime makes most of your interrupts useless (possibly a L2P issue, I´m still learning the lockdown playstile after using shatter for a long time).
It was a rather short time of testing, but it seems worthwhile to spend some time with this trait. I´d really like to hear some other mesmer´s experiences.

Xaveri

trooper.2650:

Xaylin.1860:

I also switched out the Torch for a Sword. I do sometimes miss Prestige but I still get enough stealth thanks to Decoy and MI.

What would your second and third utility be?

I have gone in the opposite direction and dropped an offhand weapon with interrupt potentials (pistol/sword/focus) and picked up torch. Why? Because my utilities are all set and don’t see myself changing them. I needed a second stealth option beside MI because blink is just not enough. Also, I use mantra of distraction and resolve or disenchanter and don’t want to drop them.

I still run the build in my signature. However, I recently switch out Decoy for Blink quite frequently leaving me with MI as only source of stealth. My second utility is Feedback and my third is Nullfield. Most of my defense comes from shutting down projectiles with Feedback and having a very high uptime of Chaos Armor. Since I have to rely on my Glamours (stationary) I would not recommend this set up for solo roaming. It works well in small skirmishes though.

For roaming I usually drop Glamours and go for Prestige, Mantra of Distraction and Mantra of Resolve (or use Mirror and Menders Purity). So I’d probably end up with a very similar set up as yours.

Figured i’d hop in here to contribute/praise/help-out.

First off, I find it pretty awesome that our Mesmer comrades happen to be all non-toxic and helpful bro’s and gals. Thanks for keeping our community non toxic, keep up the good work.

Secondly, I have been in love with a lockout build I have created and refined and I figured I would debut it here. I am in no way reinventing the wheel but I do find my build to do VERY well in sPvP. O yea, this build was created and tested for sPvP strictly so I cannot speak about its viability outside this game type.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzyqnRTmGb9IipHBnvJckUYasWJF42FC-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9xuAA

Wont go into huge details as the build is pretty self explanitory but I will hit a couple of points. GS necessary for its offensive potential, S/F over Staff because it has greater damage potential, lower cd and more reliable interrupt (focus pull compared to Chaos Storm), and phantasm is very strong on immob targets (iWarden is buggy atm but it seems to behave most of the time if paired with an immob). Adept tier of Chaos tree is Debilitating Dissipation b/c you have 30% increased condi duration and 2 out of the 3 condis are very usefull (although your bleeds do very little damage I have seen it force condi clears…. so in rare cases 3 out of 3 are good). I consider this build patch proof (actually made this build in reaction to vigor nerfs), boon duration and application is about as good as it gets (man i love me the prot/vigor/swiftness durations). If you try this build try to take advantage of your push/pulls in conjunction with an interrupt to neutralize points. Displacement + immobilize = win

Compared to traditional shatter meta, I would say this build is stronger with certain exceptions. Mainly, its stronger than shatter against thieves but weaker than shatter against Warriors.

Also Chaos Archangel, just as a suggestion on your original post it might be helpful to add protection alongside weakness under the damage mitigation example.

@ Xaveri: Interesting point about the heals and mantra, didn’t think of that. I’ll give it a try.

You mention Traveler runes. This is something I’ve been thinking about too. I’ve been running mesmer for the 33% (really 25%) daze increase, but have read a lot that traveler helps a ton in wvw, that’s aside from out of combat mobility. But I’d be giving up a lot of power and the 25% daze increase. Not sure which is worth it.

From a “lockdown” perspective, I find that the interrupts are what really make the lockdown/shatter effective, as without CI and running a staff I don’t think you are really able to shut people down with chain dazing etc. What wrecks people is having their rotation stopped and that skill put on 5 sec cd. The daze duration increase doesn’t affect that at all. Kind of makes me look at lockdown and daze a little different, as solely about interrupts rather than blanket control. Looking at the mesmer control toolkit, as far as Daze goes, everything we have is so short duration, but lends itself to interrupts very well via diversion and MoD, both being better than instant (usable during other actions). It’s almost like trying to extend the duration of the daze is missing the point of the Dazes we have, the strength not being the duration but the instant application allowing for much better interrupting. With MoD, you can go be throwing out all your dmg and land an interrupt without missing a beat. No other class can do that.

Along those lines I’m thinking of losing offhand sword for pistol, as the OH daze is the only one I have that isn’t instant, and so is a kind of fire and hope for the best. Might as well make it a 2 sec stun. Any thoughts on Pistol vs Sword for offhand?

Makes me want to ditch the Mesmer runes and get furious interruption. That would also shift the build to be even more spiky, losing power but gaining the 10% crit dmg. If not travelers, what other rune set would you guys think would really benefit an interrupt/shatter build?

@MSFone
I completely agree with you. The only time torch is useful/mandatory is when running PU (not this case) or when you do not have Decoy on your utility bar. But since you have Decoy than torch is kind of redundant. Try playing without Decoy and only blink+MI as a disengage options and 2 offensive weapon sets like sw+sw/GS can be, and let me know…

As Osicat says, you should ask yourself if the build your are running will let you handling for example two thieves. At some point a necro will join in followed by a guardian. Will you be able to kill them all? If not, can your build let you escape? (PS: it’s a good question if you care about roaming, if not than many of the thing I have been writing are not so important).

I am not saying mine will, but after playing lockdown for a while (in pvp all was nice and fun) and have it tried it in wvw too and I must admit it didn’t. So, decoy wasn’t an option and thus I had to look somewhere else to put a disengage alternative. First with staff but I found it a bit meh… than with torch. And it feels just right.

FI. The 15 sec internal CD suits my build and not yours. Why? Because I have less sources of interrupts and thus it’s less possible to chain interrupt someone within 15sec window frame wasting its effect. FYI I have GS wave (AoE) and 2xMoD

My post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-Lockdown-and-Torch-viable/first#post3659318

@Schattenlied
Thieves are hard to nail down with an interrupt for they keep evading, but if you manage it than it’s almost over. Heavy stealth builds like PU for example are good too, that is why I wanted torch.

@Candlecan
That is pretty much what I was running with the exception of focus, portal and runes/sigils.
I love focus and I just wait for the fix on iWarden. But I wouldn’t be running it without the trait, so in the end I would go something like 0/20/30/20/0 but for now I’m busy fine tuning this new FI build.

I have to pour some water into the wine. I managed to play Solo Q (what I do most of the time, my schedule doesnt allow a team) until 90% on EU leaderbords with mindcrush, from that level up I got eaten alive by engis and thieves; it really was like hitting a brick wall. I switched to the non-PU condi build sensotix came up with after december 10th patch and have easily been able to play into the 500. So while I think a piano virtous like supcutie could make a lockdown shatter build work in tpvp, an average player like me for sure can not.
I really would support the idea of extending the shutdown capabilities of a mesmer and reduce his damage options in return. That way we would have a unique role in tpvp teamplay.

Thanks for the educated, well written, gentile, but not superficial thread (esp. to Chaos, your writings are always worth reading!). The mesmer forum is balm to my eyes compared to many of the others.

When I first red Chaos about Mindcrush I remember him writing somewhere that Engis would have been a problem. I haven’t gone up so much as you in the leaderbord and from where I stand I can beat some and loose to some others so I do not see it as a build problem. As far as thieves well… they are thieves and my experience is that either you play perfect or you are doomed.

Btw, what’s sensotix build you are referring?

This build. In my opinion the best build he has ever crafted. You are very strong 1v1 and still good in teamfights. If you learn to use the scepter block properly (Pyro has some great advices in his soloQ guide) you’re putting out some serious damage.
But the best thing is: you can play on point most of the time and dont rely and long stealthes too much; you can even force enemies off the point. My usual start for a fight is (from range): duellist – magic bullet – chaos storm on the stunned enemy – warlock – phase retreat inside the storm. If you want to end a fight quickly (2vs1 i.e.) I mass invis for the boons, then the same rotation and move behind the foe.

@ MSFone: I used Traveler runes since they were released, the increased mobility is definitly worth it if you roam a lot in wvw. The higher boon- and conditionduration fits perfect for Chaotic Interuption and iSwap and i feel well prepare for the incoming nerf to vigor from Critical Infusion.

The main problem for me with OH sword vs. pistol is the cooldown reduction, i always use Blade Training, but i have to give something else up to take Duellist´s Discipline. With 10-30-30 it´s a bit more easy to decide since you´re able to remove Furious Interruption (and not sacrificing Deceptive Evasion, which is the problem with 20-20-30). On the other hand, Chaotic Interruptions feels a bit useless with Magic Bullet to me. I´ll definitly try out Pistol OH, both with Furious Interruption and – cd trait.

I ran Furious Interruption for months in a 30/30/10/0/0 variant of Mind Crush and the trait really grew on me. At first it felt like a waste of a slot but the more I got used to being able to expect the quickness proc the more ways I found to use it. I feel its not worth a Grandmaster spot but its not a bad trait. I primarily used it for:

• Quicker rezzes (quickness stomps never seemed to work properly)
• Mantra charges
• Phantasm summons
• Sword/GS autoattacks

Its a nice little damage boost when you can plan it out, especially for greatsword. The 15 second cooldown really limits it though. Could use a buff.

As for tpvp, while Mind Crush doesnt workout for everyone I dont think that means every lockdown build would have the same results. The build Ive been running recently has been very effective, so much so that Im thinking o doing a detailed writeup on it. Sensotix’s bountiful interrupt build is also really awesome in tourneys, or you could go MSF’s route and add lockdown to standard shatter. (Sorry for typos. Dat cellphone)

After trying it out I feel FI is a waste, just as Chaos said he felt at first. With the 15 sec cd there is now way this grandmaster trait is better than either shattered concentration or great sword training in Domination. And the 25 pt minor in Dueling is trash compared to the 15 in Dom, unless you are running a clone death build.

If there we no cd then I’d consider it a tough call between FI and 20 in Dom. As it is, to me, there is no contest. Also, after being used to shattered concentration, fighting a guardian for example without it is a painful experience.

I also dropped the mesmer runes and it didn’t hurt me at all; I still landed the same amount of interrupts and I did’t notice the .25 sec missing from daze.

As others have said, I also find the pistol much more useful than the OH sword, especially having only a 1 sec daze on it that isn’t instant.

Thanks Chaos for 1v1ing with me using identical specs (except weapons) to get my ransacker title! It was fun killing you <3. Anyway, I think sword focus/staff actually is a good alternative to greatsword. It can be used with both quite well and I will be testing the staff version tonight

@Warlord: =P Technically our lives were close to even, though really low, and then I got heartseeker’d. Great fight nonetheless though. Fighting on that boat is always fun.. till I got iWave’d downstairs. x.x

@MSFone: I agree with ya on most of those, FI can’t hold a candle to Shattered Concentration if you’re forced to choose. But Pistol over Sword? Idk, sword always wins out in my heart. Even without taking the daze into account, the damage from the sword counter is marvelous, comparable to iSwordsman.

Shoutouts to Warlord of Chaos: The First Rank 1 Solo’Q lockdown Mesmer! (If I’m not mistaken)

With the upcoming new Domination Grandmaster (Interrupted skills go on a 10 second cooldown)

I’m probably going to be running Mind Crush again (or maybe Shatterlock) with a new variant focusing on AoE Chill.

… I’ve cleverly (/conceit) called it “Mind Crush – Brain Freeze”

Its essentially just like mind Crush, but the Sigils will end up being Fire/Hydromancy – Energy/ Hydromancy and Runes of Grenth (chill duration and AoE chill on heal) This allows me to have around 50% chill duration and a constant AoE chill, which will take advantage of the new interrupt trait’s ability to put skills on a 10 second cooldown. I’ll likely be using Sword/Focus – Staff or Greatsword for a greater emphasis on AoE interrupts.

Anyone else theorycrafting some new ideas with the upcoming trait?

I’ve been seeing more and more 30/x/30/x/x with CS/CI, respectively. Misha ran this in a 2v2 Mist League tournament last week and it was visibly wrecking people (especially thieves). It definitely got my attention.

It seems to me that as strong as CS/CI together are (even though I still kinda scratch my head on it), running the same spread using Power Block/CI with all the chill garb (chillruption essentially on crack) with AoE interrupt procs ala staff/GS, staff/sw-sw or GS/sw-sw) would be heavenly.

Also been thinking about a 30/x/x/x/30, basically chillruption but with 30 in dom vs chaos.

Power Block just made my next build Shatterlock. The stun overwriting the daze on CS really bugs me, so 30 in dom has just never seemed worth it to me. But this… The control it will add to Shatterlock is just amazing and to me makes 30/X/X/X/30 hands down superior to the standard shatter build.

MSFone.3026:

Power Block just made my next build Shatterlock. The stun overwriting the daze on CS really bugs me, so 30 in dom has just never seemed worth it to me. But this… The control it will add to Shatterlock is just amazing and to me makes 30/X/X/X/30 hands down superior to the standard shatter build.

With no DE, I kinda beg to differ. Both play-styles have their places, one is to disable, the other is to provide burst damage.

I’ve been playing a lockdown mesmer in PVE for months and have found it very fun and useful. Obviously, it does nothing on dragon fights, but in pretty much every other scenario, it is pretty powerful.

Even with dungeon/fractal bosses, I find I can cycle and time dazes and interrupts often enough to make a real difference in the fight. Few things in the game are as satisfying as interrupting a major boss attack at just the right second. Love the control options we have as mesmers.

As far as WvWvW goes, has anyone toyed with using Rampager’s gear with a lockdown spec? Does it make sense to have some burns/bleeds or even torment ticking away on an enemy while you do some direct damage? Not complete Rampagers. But weapons/trinkets, and a mix of other armor.

Interrupts do not always mean skill you can interrupt auto. Getting benefits for that is really not right. I think this trait can be potentially broken with halting strike but we will have to see.

It only damages when you interrupt and if all their skills are on cooldown, there’ll be nothing to interrupt. You’ll be mashing them into the floor while they stand there, helpless, stun breaks used and skills on recharge. Halting Strike won’t be what’s broken :P

apt.9184:

Interrupts do not always mean skill you can interrupt auto. Getting benefits for that is really not right. I think this trait can be potentially broken with halting strike but we will have to see.

Actually, this trait will punish you for interrupting autoattacks.

As it is now, I’ll interrupt someone’s auto to damage & immobilize them or for some easy boons. Once the trait drops, I’ll be making a point NOT to interrupt autoattacks unless I really want that immob. Most Mesmer have around 5 interrupts to spend in a rotation, I’d rather those be used on putting key skills (like heals) on cooldown.

Well… again I find myself having to edit this thread and change the title as things continue to look up for lockdown Mesmer. With the addition of Power Block, we’re seeing all sorts of new ways that lockdown Mesmer can be utilized, but I think the most awesome news comes from hendo:

hendo.1940:

Power block I see as a self-balancing skill – sure, you can spam it in PvE and you will actually score interrupts through defiant – but if you’re just interrupting everything you see a boss casting, you’re not really using it properly. As an example – some rT guys experimenting with it interrupted Lupicus’ grub attack and then he kicked immediately afterwards. Double kicks normally are so rare (since he kicked prior to the grub summon) it can throw people off balance – so spamming the skill kind of punishes the person doing it right there. At the same time however – if you interrupt his AOE life drain skill you basically no longer require the whole party to run out until he stops draining. If somebody is too far away and he goes to spawn a bubble – you can interrupt this too. The key thing to note is that in the 30/30 you will still only have three charges on the daze mantra – so it’s not like you can just stunlock bosses.

Some bosses have very fast tells too – so it’s not always possible to interrupt. My connection ranges from like 150ms to stupid numbers like 600ms, so the interrupt playstyle while extremely fun (judging from guildies’ reactions to it and playing in the same group as them, it’s pretty crazy) and able to make you a complete god at pug carrying is still something that requires a very solid connection – and again, in addition to the self-balancing of limited number of interrupts in the class, it’s skill capped too – you need to know what tells to look out for and to have the reflexes to cast an interrupt in time (if you do it too late the boss does an attack anyway).

I honestly feel the trait is perfectly fine the way it is – in addition to the things I’ve mentioned above it also means not using empowering mantras, so simply using power block right there is a trade-off between higher damage and a smoother fight. It emphasises the control (and the supportive nature of control) aspect of this game’s “trinity”, and from what I’ve seen on the forums seems to allow ex-GW1 mesmers to have a playstyle a bit more like how the mesmer used to be in GW1 – that being a very reflex-based, controlling, skill denial-centric playstyle. Defiant I honestly feel is fine in this game (it prevents bad players from just spamming CC skills, we’ve all been in events or groups with that bearbow ranger point blank shotting the boss for no reason whatsoever because the defiant just happened to drop off at the wrong time) – but having fringe skills – and making those skills either long cooldown (basilisk venom) or limited uses (power block) to break this rule I honestly think is fine. It doesn’t even cost anything to re-gear to “control gear” (so as opposed to how the warrior meta shifted where if you’re using 30/25 still you now need to use strength runes which are 10g/ea, you need to do no such re-gearing with the mesmer trait) and it fulfills the goal Josh Foreman wanted to do with the new open world bosses – to improve the skill level of the average player – since it’s a trait you can’t just dump on and suddenly be strong, it takes skill to be able to use it properly.

So …

10/10 for the trait – keep it as is.

Has anyone else been utilizing Power Block effectively and prefer it over the other lockdown traits?

CI is more valuable. IMO. I never run anything without CI.
Power Block in all honesty should Replace Wastrel’s Punishment for a GM minor.

Hey guys, I wanted to open up a discussion about Moa Morph.

Dondagora brought it to my attention that this Elite is really not too often spoken about among lockdown Mesmer which is odd since.. well, it is literally our lockdown elite.

I personally don’t use it often because I’m allergic to skills on cooldowns over 100 seconds, but for anyone who does, would you recommend it and why?

Moa would be a lockdown if ppl in the know couldn’t super sprint away from you as soon as you cast it on them. Whenever anyone hits me with moa (rare in wvw) I turn around and book it outa there; I just escape 9 times out of 10. That is why I won’t use it. Now sure if someone doesn’t know about the escape they will just sit there getting ruled on, but who wants to count on that? If they are that nooby then you’ll probably kill them without moa anyways.

Re. the comments above about Power Block: I was super excited about this at first, but in the end I’d never take it over CS. And as someone just said, I’d take CI over both. I recently started running a hybrid lockdown with BI and CI together, nothing new I know but it’s the best build I’ve run yet. Just absolutely fun and effective.

I’ve been using AT also lately with reduced cd and increased range (along with blink) and I have a new love for that skill. At least in wvw, it is totally a lockdown skill. So many builds are relying on boons now, particularly might, and also swiftness for escaping, that with treated AT I can actually control those players well, both stealing their boons in combat and preventing escapes by taking their swiftness from them. I never thought of it that way, but lately AT is one of my favorite skills and it fits perfectly into my lockdown build. I barely ever use it for removing conditions on myself, just as a control skill.

Edit: @ Tealots: Yes that is exactly what I’ve been running and it rules. BI and CI like I said, buffed up condition duration for 3 sec immobilize from CI and the buffs from BI combined with sigils give really nice might stacking, I sit above 15 stacks very often.

MSFone.3026:

Moa would be a lockdown if ppl in the know couldn’t super sprint away from you as soon as you cast it on them. Whenever anyone hits me with moa (rare in wvw) I turn around and book it outa there; I just escape 9 times out of 10. That is why I won’t use it. Now sure if someone doesn’t know about the escape they will just sit there getting ruled on, but who wants to count on that? If they are that nooby then you’ll probably kill them without moa anyways.

This is true, normally, when putting moa on others for the sake of them not having their normal weapons, psychologically confusing the unknowing. However, it can also be used as a different kind of lockdown, meaning transformation lockdown. A elementalist starts throwing stuff down by becoming a tornado? Make it a moa-nado. Necro going lich-form? Moa it. Guardians bring out the Tomes, or a Thief his Dagger Storm, etc.? Moa it all.

In a certain sense, Moa is the elite to lockdown various other elites since it can override whatever other transformation or channeled skill that they have on them. And on that note, using moa only to counter such elites, poses no threat of being blocked or dodged in most scenarios.

I stand corrected. That’s a smart way of looking at it. Makes me almost want to take it now…

MSFone.3026:

I’ve been using AT also lately with reduced cd and increased range (along with blink) and I have a new love for that skill. At least in wvw, it is totally a lockdown skill. So many builds are relying on boons now, particularly might, and also swiftness for escaping, that with treated AT I can actually control those players well, both stealing their boons in combat and preventing escapes by taking their swiftness from them. I never thought of it that way, but lately AT is one of my favorite skills and it fits perfectly into my lockdown build. I barely ever use it for removing conditions on myself, just as a control skill.

That’s me, man I just started loving it so much that I run AT and MoR at the same time meaning that AT is purely for stealing and MoR for cleansing.

Also, AT helped me running a condition build in wvw and being able to chase people (!!!) by stealing their speed boon. Ok, I couldn’t keep up with Gs warriors and SB thieves but that’s a different story

Dondagora.9645:

MSFone.3026:

Moa would be a lockdown if ppl in the know couldn’t super sprint away from you as soon as you cast it on them. Whenever anyone hits me with moa (rare in wvw) I turn around and book it outa there; I just escape 9 times out of 10. That is why I won’t use it. Now sure if someone doesn’t know about the escape they will just sit there getting ruled on, but who wants to count on that? If they are that nooby then you’ll probably kill them without moa anyways.

This is true, normally, when putting moa on others for the sake of them not having their normal weapons, psychologically confusing the unknowing. However, it can also be used as a different kind of lockdown, meaning transformation lockdown. A elementalist starts throwing stuff down by becoming a tornado? Make it a moa-nado. Necro going lich-form? Moa it. Guardians bring out the Tomes, or a Thief his Dagger Storm, etc.? Moa it all.

In a certain sense, Moa is the elite to lockdown various other elites since it can override whatever other transformation or channeled skill that they have on them. And on that note, using moa only to counter such elites, poses no threat of being blocked or dodged in most scenarios.

As MSFone said it’s a smart way of looking at it. I never used it for the long CD but this PoW makes me want to try it (mind you… only on whoever is using their elite )

So the past few comments inspired me to try to create an “ultimate lockdown” build. I like the idea of Moa being the “Elite Lockdown Elite” and looking at it like that makes it really interesting. Rampaging Rangers, Transforming Necros/Eles, Tome’d Guardians… and that’s just when I’m not using it to unbalance an even fight.

Moa takes one person out of the match for 10s, that’s pretty much the epitome of lockdown to me.

As for Arcane Thievery, I’ve always foolishly tried to use it as a steal AND condition removal, and thus always ended up falling short when I need it. Mixing it with something like Mender’s Purity or Mantra of Resolve is likely a much better bet, so I decided to keep that option open for my lockdown-spiced boon support build.

But I wanted to try to come up with another lockdown build that’s probably the most heavily lockdown-focused I’ve done so far. It uses Confounding Suggestions, so while it doesn’t need to rely on interrupts, you do have to properly manage your chain-dazes. Signet of Domination is hilariously fun to use, especially if you moa someone afterwards, you can just feel them raging 4-seconds away from making an angry forum post about you. It’s a lot more glass than most of my builds, and somewhat odd. I’ve been getting my butt kicked almost as much as I’m kicking butt but to me that just says that I’ve still got more to learn about it’s intricacies.

6/6/0/2/0

Chaos Archangel.5071:

So the past few comments inspired me to try to create an “ultimate lockdown” build. I like the idea of Moa being the “Elite Lockdown Elite” and looking at it like that makes it really interesting. Rampaging Rangers, Transforming Necros/Eles, Tome’d Guardians… and that’s just when I’m not using it to unbalance an even fight.

Moa takes one person out of the match for 10s, that’s pretty much the epitome of lockdown to me.

As for Arcane Thievery, I’ve always foolishly tried to use it as a steal AND condition removal, and thus always ended up falling short when I need it. Mixing it with something like Mender’s Purity or Mantra of Resolve is likely a much better bet, so I decided to keep that option open for my lockdown-spiced boon support build.

But I wanted to try to come up with another lockdown build that’s probably the most heavily lockdown-focused I’ve done so far. It uses Confounding Suggestions, so while it doesn’t need to rely on interrupts, you do have to properly manage your chain-dazes. Signet of Domination is hilariously fun to use, especially if you moa someone afterwards, you can just feel them raging 4-seconds away from making an angry forum post about you. It’s a lot more glass than most of my builds, and somewhat odd. I’ve been getting my butt kicked almost as much as I’m kicking butt but to me that just says that I’ve still got more to learn about it’s intricacies.

6/6/0/2/0

give the gm trait in dueling a try, its pretty nice actually, i always open with an interrupt, then manage to get many hits cause of quickness, if i use it, but atm i go w the meta cause i am pretty much new to lockdown(well tried it before but i liked shatter gameplay back then more) ,i only tried the dueling gm quickness trait in hotjoin tho

i ddint try it in spvp cause i wasnt confident enough, didnt want to drag my team down

I’ve used it for a few months actually in a similar Confounding build and it worked out pretty well. It’s a difficult trait to get the hang of but was fun, and is something I wanna eventually revisit with the new runes and sigils. But Furious Interruption works better with Greatsword and Scepter/Offhand than staff, which is why I eventually shied away from it. (Plus the april patch gave me access to harmonious mantras!)

Speaking of harmonious mantras – my rip roaring build is essentially lockdown support, so I suppose I’ll post it in this thread.

It’s 4/6/0/4/0, not too dissimilar from the lockdown build you’re running now chaos, only difference trading confounding suggestions for restorative mantras.

Interesting thing too – yesterday I was watching zoose (top level ele) on his stream going 3v3 versus a team with a mesmer I recognized from past mistpedia tourneys named QWho. Looked like he was running an HM build as evidenced by the 3 mantra charges. I derived a couple other things from watching him be focused by zoose’s team and it looked just like my build. I logged in, asked him and indeed it’s the exact same traits. He was using that build in tourneys to decent success apparently.

One big change from my build is he was using Staff. That was one big suggestion made by others in my build thread but I hadn’t got around to yet. He was also using Ogre runes for the max damage, which I’ll also try out. This is the build I’ll be trying after talking with him rip roaring revised. 3 mantras, but I’ll give it a shot.

EDIT: pasted correct revised build.

I have a small bit of a question; Confounding Suggestions, does it trigger the stun after the daze or is the daze replaced by the stun or do they happen at the same time. I haven’t tried the trait assuming the second, but now I’m thinking I may have been mistaken. Was I?

It replaces the daze rather then adding a stun after a daze.

I .. can’t.. bring myself.. to use Moa over Mass Invis. x_x I actually can deal with the cooldown time, it’s not too bad, but some twisted sense of honor within me prevents me from using it in 1v1s and I screw up with it half the time in teamfights. Plus I’m so attuned to MI for escapes/stomps/rezzes that I feel like I’m actually hindering myself when I’m not using it.

My mental problems aside, has anyone else been rocking out with Moa and prefer it over Mass Invis?

I have personally never used Moa, like ever. I know, a travesty. But, I have seen other mesmers attempt to use it watching their GW2 streams and I have to say it’s a rather difficult skill to land. The reason? Dat age old RnG. On a vicious point battle, you’d love to moa that bunker to get them out of the fight but there is so much dodge spam, you’re left with “please don’t dodge, please don’t dodge”, you cast it and they dodge. Likely they’re not dodging your cast mind you, just randomness. Then your elite is worthless. I’ve seen this happen so many times.

Granted, if you can land it, awesome, but it’s heavy RnG in my opinion and not worth it unless you see yourself in many 1v1 scenarios.