Guild Wars 2

Theory: What if, every time you spawn a clone it becomes it’s own sentient being who thinks exactly as you do and when you destroy it, it doesn’t actually explode into the ether but rather it teleports to it’s own alternate dimension where it shall be forever alone and miserably in the endless void.

Question: Would you still carelessly shatter your clones if this was a fact?

(What’s your crazy theory? I want to know)

Well, if you don’t shatter them, maybe they’ll shatter you?

I’d still shatter them so hard, but every time. I’d say ’I’ll stop making my clones suffer if you buff our auto-attacks, arenanet." Using the clones as ransom.

ASP.8093:

Well, if you don’t shatter them, maybe they’ll shatter you?

Mind… Blown….

thetarot.8246:

I’d still shatter them so hard, but every time. I’d say ’I’ll stop making my clones suffer if you buff our auto-attacks, arenanet." Using the clones as ransom.

But they’re basically you, you’d be banishing yourself to the void every time you shatter.

Consider it a ‘hunger strike’ so to speak then. Make myself suffer, and maybe things will happen.

“Look what you’re making me do Arenanet!” Shatter!

heck ye 15 char

This… is… hard…
I really like myself.. when every time I shatter a copy of me gets shifted into endless solitude I could not do it anymore.

I’d really love to send my clones to paradice (was saying that evil? I mean… suicid bombers to paradice?)

In my version my clones are created by pulling together the surounding materials. If you create a clone you create a copy of yourself which acts, lives, loves and hates the exact same way you do. Shattering them just means to let go the energy you hold them together with. BUT you also feel them dying. Do you want to see yourself die over and over? Do you want to feel death over and over? Do you want to experience it every time you shatter and feel it twice when using iPersona?

Me Games Ma.8426:

Do you want to see yourself die over and over? Do you want to feel death over and over? Do you want to experience it every time you shatter and feel it twice when using iPersona?

Do you dare live a divided life, though? Is there enough of you to go around?

I like to think that I’m actually teleporting my clones from an alternate dimension where they have family and loved ones, and the clones aren’t actually running towards the target but away from me. At this point, I explode their life force into a thousand itsy bitsy pieces, at which point they’re reincarnated into purple and pink butterflies cursed to never be able to return to their homes again.

And when iPersona is used, that’s just a me from another dimension shattering the me in the present dimension which then teleports himself in to take my place.

Being pretty open to the many world hypothesis of quantum mechanics (aka multiverse), whereby every possible event is realized in some universe, I’d have no problem with this. If every time I shatter a clone it is banished to some universe or whatever to be sad, there are already an infinity of universes where a copy of me is sad in an infinite number of ways, so I’m not really changing anything by shattering thousands of clones over the course of my mesmer career.

So yes, I’d def. still shatter. In fact, there may already be a universe where this exact scenario is already playing out!

Wouldn’t shatter, so – basic pve gameplay

I saw this movie: Hugh Jackman went mad in the end I think.

Srsly, all y’all better go watch The Prestige. ;)

A friend’s making me post this because he’s lazy.

Sure, mesmers have all these illusion powers. You know, ostensibly. But then you’ve also got Blink and Time Warp and Portal and such. Clearly — clearly! — you’re doing some nasty stuff to the fabric of reality itself. So it kinda figures that maybe all your powers are dimensional powers, huh?

Like, your clones are like the ghosts in Bioshock Infinite.

If they’re all me, then “i” would bring a sacrifice to help myself by being shattered because that’s just the hero i am… I guess?

Fay.2735:

ASP.8093:

Well, if you don’t shatter them, maybe they’ll shatter you?

Mind… Blown…. REKT

there, fixed it!

and, no, I wouldn’t shatter a sentient being.

Sounds like some kind of Tron thing lol

Well if each clone becomes sentient and self-aware.. And we’re pulling them from a unique dimension..

Then doesn’t that mean Mesmer has access to an infinite amount of dimensions? And if each clone is suddenly becoming self-aware, then were they originally nothing but fragments of ether that our mesmery minds turned into a reflection of ourself?

Then if each mesmer has access to their own source of infinite dimensions… What happens when you make a clone of someone ELSE? (reflected scepter auto)

So each time we’re using our abilities we’re masochistically torturing ourselves? Are we imprisoning parts of who we are? Don’t we always shut out parts of ourselves every day in order to make room for new things to enter?

If these sentient clones are living for eternity.. Are they really creatures greater than ourselves? If their minds are an exact copy of ours.. Would THEY begin to make clones and shatter them? Could a clone in its own dimension shatter itself? What happens to Phantasms? Would the clone REALLY be lonely, or merely expectant of this result and content in perpetual mundanity?

Oh lawd. I’ll be here all day. /ouroboros

Hell. Who says they’re “clones,” anyway. Considering the known manipulation of space and time that GW2 Mesmers utilize … the clones are actually you from an alternate timeline (most likely convergent present, possibly future). With this in mind, do you honestly think that if I don’t shatter them, I myself won’t be the one cast into the Void?
Ergo, it’s an eternal war against myself. And I (THIS I) kitten well plan to win.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Could a clone in its own dimension shatter itself? What happens to Phantasms? Would the clone REALLY be lonely, or merely expectant of this result and content in perpetual mundanity?

Would you be content with nothingness forever? I would go crazy (er) ! Also, a clone wouldn’t be able to do anything because it was shaped to be commanded by us so it wouldn’t be able to shatter itself. If it could, wouldn’t it just send itself to another, exactly the same alternate dimension?

(Also read your PM’s!)

ASP.8093:

Srsly, all y’all better go watch The Prestige.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I saw this movie: Hugh Jackman went mad in the end I think.

Haha, exactly the first thing I thought of.

Or maybe Jet Li’s “The One” – every time you shatter a version of yourself you gain all its power.

When I create a clone, it’s because my mesmer is so awesome and fabulous that the universe can’t comprehend how that could all fit into one body. Therefore, the universe has to construct additional bodies to had all that awesome. When I shatter, the universe realizes that it has upset the balance of awesome in the universe, and in order to maintain 4 super awesome fabulous mesmers it would have to drain the awesome from everything else. While this would totally be worth it, it might make everything else that’s not looking at my mesmer sad, so the universe has to destroy them in a blaze of glory (and butterflies) to free up all the fabulousness for everyone else to use. Also I don’t dodge roll, I simply do another turn on the catwalk.

Clones do not consist of elements that make our body, such as carbon. This means the clones are not us. The only similarity is the appearance. However, this does not mean the clones and I are the same. Neither in terms of the elements nor the quantum state of the particle.

Now, let’s assume the clones are exactly like us, not just the appearance. This means the clones contain the particles which form our body. Once the clones are shattered, all the particles that form the clones are gone. However, the conservation of mass tells us that mass cannot be created or destroyed. From Einstein’s mass-energy equivalence ,
E = mc^(2) (1)
where E is energy in Joules(J), m is mass in kilograms(kg), c is the speed of light in meter per second(m/s), shows a relationship between mass and energy, without relativistic effect because the speed of the clones are not fast enough to take account . All the all the mass of the particles which form my mesmer will transfer to energy.

Let’s say my mesmer has a mass of 60 kg. By shattering one clone means a mass of 60 kg is transferring to energy. Using (1), gives (5.4 ×10^(18)) J. This shows 60 kg can release a massive amount of energy which is more than a thousand times destructive than a nuclear bomb.

Conclusion
Firstly, I do not shatter carelessly in the current situation of mesmer. However, if the clones are described as above, I will start shattering whenever I can, without timing, nor awareness of opponent’s protection boon, since no matter of what build the opponents is running, they will be downed once they get hit by one shatter. At the time, mesmer will rule the world of Tyria and the mists. Suck that ANet!! uhh…hope it is not just an assumption that the clones are like us.

edit – At the time, IP is not needed for a power shatter build

An Illusion is just a dynamic hex to me, it’s just something in the mind of my target, a condition, so I do not exactly see a “clone” of myself when I see them in the world, I see a hex (that is visually represented by my image). People say they miss hexes from Guild Wars, but we already have them as I see it, they are just far more flexible.
____

Mind Wrack, is.. well without the Energy part, Mind Wrack. It’s not the same, but still similar. You place a hex (the Illusion) on your target, and turn it into Mind Wrack (F1). Instead of it relying on energy dropping to 0 and to deal added damage, you have the option to forcefully do so yourself. Otherwise, without it relying on us casting more non-hex skills to deal damage, the hex (Illusion) will continue to deal damage to the target at set intervals. A stronger hex (Phantasms) will deal more damage. You could also see it as the Shatter Hex and/or Shatter Delusions skills.

Discharge Enchantment can be seen as a shatter using the Shattered Concentration trait. We use our hex (Illusion) and alter it so that it removes Boons.

The old Diversion is sort of like Diversion now, more so with the Power Block trait, with the added utility of it preventing skill usage for a second and interrupting. On the other hand, Diversion in Guild Wars created some serious recharge delay. Nonetheless, they are similar in their functionality, both with their own perks.

Backfire is basically Cry of Frustration (read: Confusion). It’s not only for spells anymore though, but rather for everything.

Unnatural Signet, not taking the enchantment part into account, is basically both F1 and F2. Those are AoE damaging effects, and if a target is under the effect of a hex (Illusion), it and foes adjacent to the target will take damage.

Recurring Insecurity could be seen as Bleeds from Sharper Images (sort of), a health degeneration.

Signet of Disruption is basically any interrupt we can do with the Halting Strike trait. But without it being limited to non-spells, it triggers for any spells we can manage to interrupt. A hex (Illusion) can be placed on a target, and we can Diversion it to interrupt.
_

And so on forth.. to me, Illusions are just hexes, I treat them as such. On the note of Guild Wars vs. Guild Wars 2 Mesmer, there are still several awesome mechanics I miss from our earlier counterpart. I miss copying actual skills for one. E.g., Mimic should have done just that, copied skills (with an exception towards Elites I guess).

I’m loving how much thought you guys/girls are putting into this. Actually quite an interesting read! Just to clarify, I was not putting that idea forward as a serious possibility. I just thought it made for an interesting trail of thought. A sort of ‘what if this was really true’. Also @Tharinock haha!

Absconditus.6804:

And so on forth.. to me, Illusions are just hexes, I treat them as such.

tl;dr
If you want to see Illusions as Hexes it’s a reaaaaaly big nerf

Hexes, which can be “removed” by 2-3 AA or just one stronger skill.

Hexes, which does not force the enemy to spend valuable skill slot for a hex-removal (afaik every monk “had to” slot a hex removal in gw1 (tho I played more RA than organized pvps due to my freetime) to be effective).

Hexes which does close to no-dmg if you speak about clones and some cough iMage cough phantasms. And according to wiki iMage was called Backfire (I played engi during beta-weekends and after release, so I can’t clearly remember it).

Confusion as Backfire is a joke as we have it now.
Maybe you can think it as a buffed Empathy as it’ll not kill the enemy fast but force them to think about using skills a bit or adding pressure.
You had 480 base hp, a backfire did ~90-120 dmg/spell while Empathy 35-45 dmg/attack (with your weapon) while reducing the enemy’s (weapon) dmg by ~10.
(In pvp, Empathy did a bit less dmg, but it’s not like we do the same dmg with confusion in pve as in pvp.)

How many stacks of Confusion do you need to achieve similar numbers as Backfire?
How many stacks of Confusion will force the enemy to not use any skill besides condi cleanse?
How long will that number of confusion stacks be on the target?
And don’t forget, you has to be a condi mesmer to get any decent dmg out from Confusion and even then you’ll kill with the other condis most of the time.

For me, these hexes were not dps-oriented, these were semi-control skills. They forced the enemy to think about using a skill and suffering a big penalty for it or just sitting and doing nothing for a “long” time.
Confusion on mesmer can’t really do this as it’s a condition which can be removed quite easily while hex-removal was “rare”.

So if you want to see Illusions as Hexes it’s a reaaaaaly big nerf

And about the gw1/gw2 mesmer style from my pov:

You can’t “lock down” a target as in gw1, you can “only” lock down their movement. You can’t destroy their energy, you can only apply daze for a short time (which has similar effects as they can’t use skills) and daze can be removed while energy was not so easy to get.

I don’t want to say that the combat in gw1 was better, I really like this faster-paced combat we have now. There must be a reason why we don’t have the full-lockdown aspect of mesmer in gw2, but I still can’t think about the gw2 mesmer the same way as the gw1.

In gw2, you have most of the time a dps role (be it condi or power), and even the lockdown spvp build is more about movement-control with CI than Blackout .
Power Block (the gw1 one was fun, too! ) was supposed to help us to play more lockdown-style, but sadly they nerfed it so now it’s not working against Thieves (and prolly will not work against Revenant), it’s not really a good choice.

Curunen.8729:

ASP.8093:

Srsly, all y’all better go watch The Prestige.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I saw this movie: Hugh Jackman went mad in the end I think.

Haha, exactly the first thing I thought of.

Or maybe Jet Li’s “The One” – every time you shatter a version of yourself you gain all its power.

We do have this little trait called [Shattered Strength] that gives us [Might] when we shatter our clones :-)

It’s similar in concept to how teleportes may work, does it kill you and create an exact copy ect ect ect.

Whatever’s best for the greater Daishi I say!

But in this concept I’m willingly screwing over copies of myself as opposed to willingly killing myself… So I guess there’s a moral high ground to take? But I still say kitten it!

I mean if they need to eat and sleep as I do, surely they won’t last long sitting in some baren plane of existence. So it’s not like I’m condeming them to spend eternity in boring emptiness so I think it’s fine. Then again I may be a sociopath. xD

Also I’m pretty sure in the actual lore they are not real and exist in the minds of those around you manipulating them to see something no existant, and shattering them is per the name of the skill:

mind wrack causes the mind to internally implode for a second putting pressure on the part of their mind your manipulating.

Distraction putting less pressure but dazing.

Distortion causing them to miss because they have no concept of where you exactly are for the moment.

And cry of confusion imitating echoing sounds that cause them to be confused and hurt themselves in their confusion.

Existence needs more big, sexy, Norn mesmers … so I’ll gladly summon more illusions of myself. It’s for the greater good (if not the greatest good) obviously.

… I may have the same issue as Daishi :-p

I hate myself and so have no issue banishing myself a billion times to the Void.

I would, how else am I gonna kill stuff ):