Guild Wars 2

So, the last big balance patch tuned up our Utility Phantasms a bit by adding new effects that occur before the phantasm is summoned. This follows on from the Shield’s Phantasm, which has a block effect in addition to its phantasm summon. Even though the Utility Phantasm skills aren’t currently in any meta builds, the consensus seems to be that this change was a step in the right direction, and in particular it seems like the Phantasmal Disenchanter has gone from being a trash tier skill that nobody ever takes to merely a mediocre skill that might see good use in the current meta if not for the crappy bounce projectile used by the attack itself and the summoned phantasm.

Given that, it might be fun to brainstorm changes to the other weapon phantasm skills that add an extra effect on top of the phantasm summoning.

The obvious thing would be to have the Mesmer execute the Phantasm’s attack before the summoning, like Phantasmal Disenchanter does, so I’ll lead with that and hopefully other folks have more interesting suggestions:

• Phantasmal Warlock: Deal damage to a target foe, with extra damage per condition on the target. Summon a phantasm that does the same.
• Phantasmal Berserker: Perform a whirling attack that travels in a line, damaging and crippling foes. Summon a phantasm that does the same.
• Phantasmal Swordsman: Perform a leaping attack on a target foe. Summon a phantasm that does the same.
• Phantasmal Warden: Perform a whirling attack and create a defensive bubble that destroys projectiles. Summon a phantasm that does the same.
• Phantasmal Duelist: Unload your pistol on a target foe. Summon a phantasm that does the same.
• Phantasmal Mage: Burn your foes and grant Fury to your allies. Summon a phantasm that does the same.

Now, doubling these attacks is not only boring but probably overpowered, especially since that exact thing is what got Chronophantasma nerfed with the 1.5s Daze on resummoned phantasms. But I give those ideas out just to start the conversation. Probably a better approach would be to emulate Phantasmal Defender by giving out a buff or effect that mimics the results of the phantasm attack or else emulate Echo of Memory by having the Mesmer do something useful during the channel time of the skill.

So, for instance, a different version of Phantasmal Warden could apply the Mirror effect to the Mesmer while channeling or when the channel ends. Similarly, Phantasmal Swordsman could have the Mesmer perform a leap after channeling that deals no damage but has Evade frames. Etc.

I’d say do a 50%-50% split on damage to player and phantasm respectively, then mesmer can retain certain aspect of unique class mechanic while not overly reliant on illusion damage.

Oooo, this looks like fun! I’ll pitch in. While most of your suggestions are probably what will eventually happen (maybe maybe not), I think adding an effect similar to Echo of Memory where the Mesmer does something different while summoning a phantasm is a much better effect. Such as:

Phantasmal Berserker: Daze your foe for a short duration, then summon a phantasmal berserker that cripples and damages your foe. Daze being maybe like 1/4 seconds to have it synergize with domination traitline.

Phantasmal Duelist: Fire three bullets that damage your foe. For each bullet, give yourself and allies fury. Summon a phantasm that unloads its pistols.

Phantasmal Swordsman: Slash your foe then dodge backwards, evading attacks. Summon a phantasm that leaps and damages your foe.

Phantasmal Mage: Wave your torch forward, blinding and burning foes in a cone in front of you. Summon a phantasm that burns foes and pulses might for allies.

Phantasmal Warden: Fire a slow moving orb that does more damage the more projectiles it absorbs. Summon a phantasm that whirls, reflects projectiles, and pulses retaliation.

Phantasmal Warlock: Send corrupted versions of your boons to your foe. Summon a phantasm that smites enemies, dealing more damage for each condition on them.
That’s all from me but I definitely hope Anet continues this trend.

You might want to check some ideas in this thread.

Hrm, I would maybe go one step further.

Skill category: Phantasms
A phantasm skill projects forth an illusion to do your attacks for you. After the attack, the illusion will coalesce into a clone.

In essence, these skills would allow you to use weapon attacks which otherwise could be hindered. For example, a phantasmal berserker ideally is clicked and then you draw a line, so you can project the attack in a direction other than from your current one, unlike a warrior.
Likewise, these skills could all be used while CCed, after all it’s not you doing the attack.

However, other than that aspect they are just single attacks, not entirely unlike the actual attacks they are trying to mimic.

Ofc to not ruin shatter balance, you get a clone at the end.

I would only link passive effects, not full abilities. No leaps, whirls or things like that. The summoning should still stay the same. Besides that – I’d like to see some effects on phantasm skills!

Thanks, Xaylin! I’m sure I read that one at the time, but I’d forgotten about it.

myren.5490:

Phantasmal Mage: Wave your torch forward, blinding and burning foes in a cone in front of you. Summon a phantasm that burns foes and pulses might for allies.

I especially like this suggestion because I think we could use more Blinds in our active defense kitten nal, even if it is a relatively weak defensive condition at the moment. If nothing else, it’d be another way to trigger Ineptitude.

Xyonon.3987:

I would only link passive effects, not full abilities. No leaps, whirls or things like that. The summoning should still stay the same. Besides that – I’d like to see some effects on phantasm skills!

Effects would definitely be nice to have on all phantasm skills. Possibly something like the following could be done for each weapon phantasm

Phantasmal Swordsman – If your swordsman activates a finisher, the effect is doubled at your location.

I like many ideas here and agree all other phantasm skills should have an active effect.

I’d love it if phantasm skills would be you doing the attack then leave a clone that does the same attack with effects but no damage. You can then swap places with it for up to 5s afterwards.

Does 2 things, removes DPS from phantasms and allows for more confusion via swapping.

You essentially do the same attack as the phantasms do now but with adjusted values for power/condition damage.

Remove dps from phantasms? The don’t do any useful damage now.. which is why Phanatasm builds are non existent.

We just saw Helseth in the worlds. Use of phantasms was minimal at most. They are just another clone and an expensive one at that.

Thieves have a much better phantasm than Mesmers do [Thieves Guild.] I find this rather sad.

Some time ago I made a full suggestion on how to remove damage from phantasms and that also involved a on-cast skill so here is my list:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Full-phantasm-rework/first

• GS: cast rotating swords around target that damage all enemies near your target (but not the target itself: punishes stacking and allows to single out enemies)
• Staff: cast a ring which inflicts confusion to enemies crossing it
• sword: dash forward
• pistol: unload (+ slow which synergies well with interrupt playstyle of the weapon)
• focus: AOE damaging storm
• torch: an daze+ burn on interrupt

Ithilwen.1529:

Remove dps from phantasms? The don’t do any useful damage now.. which is why Phanatasm builds are non existent.

We just saw Helseth in the worlds. Use of phantasms was minimal at most. They are just another clone and an expensive one at that.

Thieves have a much better phantasm than Mesmers do [Thieves Guild.] I find this rather sad.

Regardless of what helseth did and what people do, the fact that phantasms do significant damage is a balancing point for mesmer. Robert Gee even pointed this out when chronophantasma was being developed and it’s why it has a daze on it, to prevent 3 berserkers being resummoned and instantly wrecking someone.

Removing that damage paves the way for significant class improvements to not only core but future elite specs.

Exactly, apharma. Phantasms aren’t used in PvP because it’s too easy for alert players to avoid or cleave them. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have damage. Quite the opposite, Phantasm attacks are usually the hardest-hitting skills we have on any of our weapon sets.

Phantasms aren’t used because they are excessively slow and unreliable. They are, more or less, just expensive clones.

As to 3 Berserkers being re-summoned instantly. First, I’m not sure 3 berserkers being summoned in the first place is realistic. Second, I think the issue was 2 successive 3 clone/phant shatters. That’s not a valid argument.

( Actually I think Robert Gee was referring to duelists being re-summoned using continuum split + signet of the Ether. This could reasonably produce 3 duelists )

Hardest hitting skills? In theory, perhaps. In practice, not true.

Removing phantasm damage would remove the last usefulness from them, clones are easier to produce and use.

The best path would be to add damage and durability and a reasonable attack speed, making Phantasms useful in practical situations.

Ithilwen.1529:

Phantasms aren’t used because they are excessively slow and unreliable. They are, more or less, just expensive clones.

As to 3 Berserkers being re-summoned instantly. First, I’m not sure 3 berserkers being summoned in the first place is realistic. Second, I think the issue was 2 successive 3 clone/phant shatters. That’s not a valid argument.

( Actually I think Robert Gee was referring to duelists being re-summoned using continuum split + signet of the Ether. This could reasonably produce 3 duelists )

Hardest hitting skills? In theory, perhaps. In practice, not true.

Removing phantasm damage would remove the last usefulness from them, clones are easier to produce and use.

The best path would be to add damage and durability and a reasonable attack speed, making Phantasms useful in practical situations.

Phantasms currently have about 60% of our sustained damage. Impressive isn’kitten And that is why we do not have any sustained damage in any game mode where they can die easily (PvP and WvW). Actually even in PvE our sustained damage is ridiculous, and that is in great part because our phantasms don’t benefit from the damage multipliers we get.

So it makes no sense to add even more damage to our phantasms. Having most of our DPS relying on AI is a bad idea period. Remove the damage from them (or at least most of it) and give them another role (for example support).

Then you can change so that they receive less damage when not targeted explicitly (like in PvE, but less reduction). This is something they will not do currently because that would promote a very passive gameplay. If the phantasms do not provide damage, then this is not passive anymore because you are in charge of doing the job.

Of course, to compensate, give all the lost DPS to our weapon skills, and we finally have sustained damage.

We can then have useful phantasms AND still do damage even if they die. That is the absolute only solution.