Guild Wars 2

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

is any one else bothered that mesmer’s one bunker build is labeled “cheese” while all the others are glass cannons?

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

Simonoly.4352:

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

So am I. I don’t hold any grudge against PU, I’m just praising those who are not using PU because fights against those mesmers are really, really fun ^^

Simonoly.4352:

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

Same… ran with PU for the first time in ages yesterday and it’s just a crutch. Rarely died but was just so dull.

Back to my staff + sword / sword lockdown spec… much more fun. Die a lot more but when I win it’s a lot more satisfying.

Marsares.2053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

Same… ran with PU for the first time in ages yesterday and it’s just a crutch. Rarely died but was just so dull.

Back to my staff + sword / sword lockdown spec… much more fun. Die a lot more but when I win it’s a lot more satisfying.

The crutch comment is hilarious. Drop stealth and attempt playing without the staff. Hell, the thing is the same shape and size of an actual crutch.

Staff was THE mesmer crutch pre PU craze. Still is at the end of the day, as is being demonstrated by this thread.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Marsares.2053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

Same… ran with PU for the first time in ages yesterday and it’s just a crutch. Rarely died but was just so dull.

Back to my staff + sword / sword lockdown spec… much more fun. Die a lot more but when I win it’s a lot more satisfying.

The crutch comment is hilarious. Drop stealth and attempt playing without the staff. Hell, the thing is the same shape and size of an actual crutch.

Staff was THE mesmer crutch pre PU craze. Still is at the end of the day, as is being demonstrated by this thread.

Staff synergises much better with my non-PU non-DE lockdown spec as with sword/sword I’m constantly in their face and need staff for some extra dazes/clones and some distance creation at times.

We all know real men play non-PU shatter or lockdown. ;-)

Been running staff/sword+sword lockdown also… without clone on dodge. Makes me want to cry sometimes XD

First thing I did when I hit 80 was deck myself out with Rabid gear. I ran Blackwater for a good while, but realized that roaming is difficult with that build. It takes forever to kill someone even though it’s incredibly difficult for them to kill you. I’m nearly done with a new build now, one that is vastly more rewarding:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VP;4kUV1187sU-71;9;5TJJ;209B27-37;2SJk64;1k06Rk06RNCGvcGT2v;1VAVFWKXP2V3a_5iWQ-5VW8aNX8a;9;9;9;9;9;4VRk3k

Bearlin.7238:

Been running staff/sword+sword lockdown also… without clone on dodge. Makes me want to cry sometimes XD

Oh I’m the same… there’s a lot of nerd-rage going on on certain days. Then again, I’ve never been one for choosing the easy path. I just like to experiment new things… the moment a build becomes the meta, I’m out of there and try something new. The moment certain classes become the meta, I try to find a build that counters it.

… nothing beats stun-locking the crap out of a HamBow. :-P

Marsares.2053:

Bearlin.7238:

Been running staff/sword+sword lockdown also… without clone on dodge. Makes me want to cry sometimes XD

Oh I’m the same… there’s a lot of nerd-rage going on on certain days. Then again, I’ve never been one for choosing the easy path. I just like to experiment new things… the moment a build becomes the meta, I’m out of there and try something new. The moment certain classes become the meta, I try to find a build that counters it.

… nothing beats stun-locking the crap out of a HamBow. :-P

I love dueling HamBow warrs, especially if they dont realize I’m using Phantasmal Disenchanter to get rid of the condi XD

But yes, hipster mesmers ftw?!

Hedger.9261:

is any one else bothered that mesmer’s one bunker build is labeled “cheese” while all the others are glass cannons?

How dare you play an effective spec?
You should obviously play the weakest spec, so other players have an easier time beating you.

Also remember the universal MMORPG balancing scheme:
a) If you win, your class is balance and you are seriously skilled.
b) If you lost, the other player’s spec is cheese and they need a nerf. Also, they’re skillless, they have to play a cheese spec.

Ross Biddle.2367:

The crutch comment is hilarious. Drop stealth and attempt playing without the staff. Hell, the thing is the same shape and size of an actual crutch.

Staff was THE mesmer crutch pre PU craze. Still is at the end of the day, as is being demonstrated by this thread.

They’re both symptoms of our designed main defence – clones to confuse enemies – not working. Clones don’t confuse anyone, they’re too fragile and don’t act lifelike enough. Ofc we depends on extra defences left right and centre as a result.

PU is required in WvW mostly due to Thieves. Blaim them, not the Mesmer. If the Thieves didnt have any stealth, Mesmers wouldnt have any need for stealth either and still be a competetive 1v1/roaming class.

In zergs it doesnt matter, no one care what spec you got as long as it doesnt die (and stealth doesnt really matter that much there). Hell it doesnt even matter in PvP (I’ve never seen a Mesmer run PU), damage/shatter builds are always better because there arent any perma-stealth insta-kill Thieves coming after you that you need all your own stealth to counter with.

Dawdler.8521:

PU is required in WvW mostly due to Thieves. Blaim them, not the Mesmer. If the Thieves didnt have any stealth, Mesmers wouldnt have any need for stealth either and still be a competetive 1v1/roaming class.

In zergs it doesnt matter, no one care what spec you got as long as it doesnt die (and stealth doesnt really matter that much there). Hell it doesnt even matter in PvP (I’ve never seen a Mesmer run PU), damage/shatter builds are always better because there arent any perma-stealth insta-kill Thieves coming after you that you need all your own stealth to counter with.

I solo-roam as a mesmer running a Phantasm-Shatter build and I swear, I have no problems against thieves. I kill them quite fast.

The “problem” is when a good player is facing a bad player.

hihey.1075:

/respect.

Give me a break.

I do somewhat agree that the power of PU builds, especially Blackwater, is vastly overrated. That’s not to say that the builds are bad, but they’re just not as strong as the forum whining would make people believe (or we’d see them much more often, which we don’t).

Thing with PU is, it’s a defensive low-pressure low-surface builds. You give few angles to get attacked, in return you rely on specific elements of the fight to attack the enemy yourself.

You’re awesome in 1v1, when enemies try to pressure you and when they try to “fight fairly”. You falter when you need to step out of your comfort zone (the drop-off is steep, even for power variants), when the enemy can ignore your stealth, and when you need to fight objects.

But the build only got infamous because soooooo many GW2 players seem to give some sort of special importance to 1v1 performance, as if this game was SC2 or so. Despite that combat not even being balanced for.

Not sure why ppl complain about PU mesmers. I can’t kill them and they can’t kill me. What is the problem?

You’re a strange person hihey… you say I should be playing spirit ranger in tPvP like you, even though we both agree its easy mode and boring, just because it means you can win most of the time, and yet you seem to have this unrivelled hatred of mesmers who do the exact same thing with PU.

This is not a thread complaining about PU. If you see it that way that is only because of the actual state of the mesmer and of any PU build.

I’m simply praising those who don’t use it, because they are the ones who provide the most entertaining fights to me. Sometimes I die, sometimes I live. And they are really fast paced fights, where a single mistake from both parts could result in death.

Going against any kind of PU is simply boring.

@Cufu: if PU was viable in PvP there would be nothing wrong with using it.
I did not make this thread to complain about a build, rather to praise those that are not using it. Spirit Ranger is a boring spec, both to play and to fight against, but they are only seen in PvP. In WvW roaming/dueling they are close to not existant so I don’t care about them.
The number of mesmers who have joined the PU bandwagon is extremely high. Still, the fun provided by old Shatter/Phantasm/Lockdown builds is simply beautiful.

hihey.1075:

This is not a thread complaining about PU. If you see it that way that is only because of the actual state of the mesmer and of any PU build.

No, people are reading it pretty much as it is written. You are saying you respect people who do NOT run that build, which implies somehow that those who do run it are less worthy of respect.

If that’s not what you intended, you should withdraw that comment.

Qaelyn.7612:

hihey.1075:

This is not a thread complaining about PU. If you see it that way that is only because of the actual state of the mesmer and of any PU build.

No, people are reading it pretty much as it is written. You are saying you respect people who do NOT run that build, which implies somehow that those who do run it are less worthy of respect.

If that’s not what you intended, you should withdraw that comment.

Yep, they are less worthy of my respect. Which does not mean that they are not respectful.

hihey.1075:

Yep, they are less worthy of my respect. Which does not mean that they are not respectful.

It does mean that those objecting to the tone of the thread really were reading it pretty much spot on.

Qaelyn.7612:

hihey.1075:

Yep, they are less worthy of my respect. Which does not mean that they are not respectful.

It does mean that those objecting to the tone of the thread really were reading it pretty much spot on.

I don’t want to argue with you. If you enjoy playing PU, good for you. I’m not saying that those who use PU are scum or anything.

I made this thread after a beautiful 2v2 against 2 shatter mesmers. It was so fun that I had to say something about it, as the days in which I actually enjoyed fighting a mesmer are long since gone.

hihey.1075:

Qaelyn.7612:

hihey.1075:

Yep, they are less worthy of my respect. Which does not mean that they are not respectful.

It does mean that those objecting to the tone of the thread really were reading it pretty much spot on.

I don’t want to argue with you. If you enjoy playing PU, good for you. I’m not saying that those who use PU are scum or anything.

I made this thread after a beautiful 2v2 against 2 shatter mesmers. It was so fun that I had to say something about it, as the days in which I actually enjoyed fighting a mesmer are long since gone.

^ This is the biggest thing for me, win, lose, doesn’t matter, I haven’t actually enjoyed a fight against a mesmer in a long time.

hes not saying that PU is less deserving of respect, he’s saying people that still play said specs he mentioned in the post are worthy of special attention.

Clearly your intent on making sure PU is well regarded in everyone elses eyes or you wouldnt be here defending it, my advice would be to play what makes you happy and forget everyone else, the odds are pretty good your not going to change anyone elses opinion, just like this certainly hasn’t changed yours.

ppl most likely always managed to get mesmers easily before pu (burst em once and down) and now they complain about mesmer loosing some of their dmg to trade for defence. (they cant kill pu mesmers in 1 burst anymore but neither will the good players loose to pu builds-draw)

in short , they r just used to mesmers beeing easy to kill once u got em pinned down

Entioch.6594:

hihey.1075:

Qaelyn.7612:

hihey.1075:

Yep, they are less worthy of my respect. Which does not mean that they are not respectful.

It does mean that those objecting to the tone of the thread really were reading it pretty much spot on.

I don’t want to argue with you. If you enjoy playing PU, good for you. I’m not saying that those who use PU are scum or anything.

I made this thread after a beautiful 2v2 against 2 shatter mesmers. It was so fun that I had to say something about it, as the days in which I actually enjoyed fighting a mesmer are long since gone.

^ This is the biggest thing for me, win, lose, doesn’t matter, I haven’t actually enjoyed a fight against a mesmer in a long time.

hes not saying that PU is less deserving of respect, he’s saying people that still play said specs he mentioned in the post are worthy of special attention.

Clearly your intent on making sure PU is well regarded in everyone elses eyes or you wouldnt be here defending it, my advice would be to play what makes you happy and forget everyone else, the odds are pretty good your not going to change anyone elses opinion, just like this certainly hasn’t changed yours.

This, 100 times. Glad someone actually got the meaning of this thread

Entioch.6594:

^ This is the biggest thing for me, win, lose, doesn’t matter, I haven’t actually enjoyed a fight against a mesmer in a long time.

You’re not supposed to enjoy it. This is the entire point of my personal objection to these sorts of threads.

The mesmer is meant to be an illusionist/mage-trickster class. The mesmer, as the wiki puts it, “confounds, controls, or evokes emotion”. Clones are part of that. Shatter mechanisms are part of that. And yes, stealth is a part of that, which is why we have a half dozen ways of obtaining stealth.

Entioch.6594:

Clearly your intent on making sure PU is well regarded in everyone elses eyes or you wouldnt be here defending it, my advice would be to play what makes you happy and forget everyone else, the odds are pretty good your not going to change anyone elses opinion, just like this certainly hasn’t changed yours.

I’m not going to lose any sleep over someone coming in here and complaining about PU for the 37,275th time. I’m simply calling it what it is, and that it is a complaint. He can couch that as saying he “respects” those who don’t use it, but it’s pretty transparent.

I’m also pushing back against the meme that there’s something wrong about using stealth as a mesmer, because there isn’t. IMO, a mesmer that uses stealth and tries to confuse people into attacking clones is being a lot truer to the idea behind the class than someone who just uses his clones as damage-delivery mechanisms. There’s nothing wrong with playing that way, mind you, but there’s also nothing more “respectable” about it either. And, again IMO, it just makes mesmer into yet another class that tosses damage at people.

And IME, “not fun” is code for “simpler”. Everyone has more fun when they are winning, and again, this is a class that is supposed to be designed to be annoying and tricky rather than direct and simple to deal with. People like the OP prefer mesmers who don’t use stealth because they’re simpler to deal with. (Which, before I get flamed, is not the same thing as “easier to beat”.)

quercus.9261:

Not sure why ppl complain about PU mesmers. I can’t kill them and they can’t kill me. What is the problem?

That this is boring.

Anyway, my p/d dodge spammer thief loves PU mesmers… If it’s 1v1, they are free food, if it’s 2v1, they help me by giving me boons and free stealth. xD

Marsares.2053:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Marsares.2053:

Simonoly.4352:

Well I don’t blame people for utilising builds that are far more accommodating than most as they’re just using what Anet provides. However, I’m not a big fan of PU and the playstyle it encourages, so I’m back to shatter and sc/p + staff condi build myself. I imagine many regular Mesmer players have already become bored with PU and are moving onto lockdown builds

Same… ran with PU for the first time in ages yesterday and it’s just a crutch. Rarely died but was just so dull.

Back to my staff + sword / sword lockdown spec… much more fun. Die a lot more but when I win it’s a lot more satisfying.

The crutch comment is hilarious. Drop stealth and attempt playing without the staff. Hell, the thing is the same shape and size of an actual crutch.

Staff was THE mesmer crutch pre PU craze. Still is at the end of the day, as is being demonstrated by this thread.

Staff synergises much better with my non-PU non-DE lockdown spec as with sword/sword I’m constantly in their face and need staff for some extra dazes/clones and some distance creation at times.

We all know real men play non-PU shatter or lockdown. ;-)

rofl

Thank you OP <3

Mmm, I don’t find PU/stealth annoying to fight – condition classes/builds (ie necro, engi) are far worse. Even pure phantasm mesmers are more annoying.

Of course, PU combined with conditions/phantasms is what becomes the challenge.

Personally don’t care what someone else plays – I’ll just stick to the build I find most fun at this moment (which happens to be stealth shatter with IP). I admit that there’s not enough variety in the builds out there at the moment, but things will change and builds will shift as the months pass.

Ender.5803:

First thing I did when I hit 80 was deck myself out with Rabid gear. I ran Blackwater for a good while, but realized that roaming is difficult with that build. It takes forever to kill someone even though it’s incredibly difficult for them to kill you. I’m nearly done with a new build now, one that is vastly more rewarding:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VP;4kUV1187sU-71;9;5TJJ;209B27-37;2SJk64;1k06Rk06RNCGvcGT2v;1VAVFWKXP2V3a_5iWQ-5VW8aNX8a;9;9;9;9;9;4VRk3k

I love furious interruption too, and I could see a new mesmer meta taking off if it was buffed just a little bit. That said, why take centaur runes with a traited focus? You already have a solid source of swiftness from temporal curtain. Boon duration, or a set that included swiftness duration would be better.

Dawdler.8521:

PU is required in WvW mostly due to Thieves. Blaim them, not the Mesmer. If the Thieves didnt have any stealth, Mesmers wouldnt have any need for stealth either and still be a competetive 1v1/roaming class.

In zergs it doesnt matter, no one care what spec you got as long as it doesnt die (and stealth doesnt really matter that much there). Hell it doesnt even matter in PvP (I’ve never seen a Mesmer run PU), damage/shatter builds are always better because there arent any perma-stealth insta-kill Thieves coming after you that you need all your own stealth to counter with.

Frankly, you can’t outstealth a thief, and any attempt to do so merely delays the fight. If the thief is impatient and inexperienced, his attempt to rush you down will fail, and lead to his death. If, however, he merely waits in stealth for you to leave stealth, the mesmer’s stealth changes nothing.
I always laugh a little inside when, after popping Shadow Refuge, the mesmer immediately uses Mass Invisibility. I mean, really? Your 6s of stealth don’t match my 15, buddy. Just a waste of a very nice cooldown.

hihey.1075:

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

Cheers ~ There’s still some of us out there.

hihey.1075:

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

sry but this is not very constructive.
i use pu not to troll or anything i use it so i can survive better in a zerg. pu has been in the game for quiet some time now and only since a month or so it became popular. i have tried pretty much every build out there. i got 5 different armor sets and i played glamour/triforce/immortal mes/phantasm build/torment build/ blackwater/power pu/ shatter cat/ anti warrior build/lockdown and even a mantra build. when everyone in spvp played phantasm build, i played a glamhybrid. i dont follow the meta ever, but atm i use pu as i have to survive at all cost or ill rally everyone.
running with a zergbusting group is very intense and yes im a veilbot, but at least i survive.
when u get focused by backline gankers, then u need that extra toughness and extra stealth to get away. also the cc meta makes it very hard for our class.
so instead of judging everyone, u might wanna check the build our and see if it really is sooooo overpowered.
also then u dont respect our best mesmer players either then? pyro played pu, osicat plays power pu…just sayin’
so could u please stop assuming that everyone using this build wants an easy win. tell u what, its not. u might win a few 1v1’s but u still die a lot. i play in a very harsh environment atm. if u push 50 man zergs with 15-25 people u gotta spec for defense and pu is in the defensive traitline. so having no respect for mesmers using it, is quiet an ignorant statement, sry.

err… sorry to interrupt, so basically ANY mesmer build that utilize Prismatic Understanding trait is a PU Mesmer ?

or must there be any specific trait setup ?

i run 0/20/30/0/20….. with PU, and i use staff /scepter+pistol…. so am i a PU mesmer ?

Yeah azizul, that’d be considered a PU build the same way nearly any build that goes 30 Illusions for iPersona is a shatter build. He’s referring to the PU playstyle in general. Stealth, defensive boons, pop out to attack retreat into stealth.

PU has it’s uses, and can do some things that other Mesmer builds can’t (dat zerg-tickling), but fighting it is a pain. It’s simply not very fun to fight against since stealth is such a powerful defense, AND Aegis/Protection ontop of it. You begin to feel like “ugh, no matter what I do hes/she’s gonna just run and hide.” I’m fine with this only because I know that this game isn’t balanced on 1v1s and theres plenty of other things I could be doing rather than trying to engage in a 5 minute deathmatch. This is no reflection on the skill level of the build or of the person behind it, it’s exactly how it sounds: PU Mesmers are simply a chore to fight against.

“You’re not supposed to enjoy it. This is the entire point of my personal objection to these sorts of threads.
The mesmer is meant to be an illusionist/mage-trickster class. The mesmer, as the wiki puts it, “confounds, controls, or evokes emotion”. Clones are part of that. Shatter mechanisms are part of that. And yes, stealth is a part of that, which is why we have a half dozen ways of obtaining stealth.”

I disagree. I can enjoy fighting a thief because despite their stealth they’re risking their lives to try to fight me. We all can relate to the satisfaction of having a good fight, where you won because your reflexes were a little sharper, you picked the right ability at the right time, or you capitalized on an advantage and never let it go. The game, when broken down, is pretty much strategy vs strategy and if fighting other classes wasn’t enjoyable then… well there’d be no point.

Mesmer is a fun class to use, and can be a fun class to fight against stealth or not. Trickster or not. Quaelyn you and I have had some really fun duels, PU or not, but it wasn’t always that way. At first it was “Ugh this guy’s using PU, toughness gear AND Illusionary Defender in a duel. Win or lose this is gonna be such a drag.” because slowly tearing through defense after defense isn’t as rewarding/engaging as a higher paced more dangerous fight.

I began having fun when I changed my perspective. I told myself “PU is gonna be really prevalent and I needa learn how to counter it. Learn from each of my mistakes and and improve every duel.” and I did. And I began having fun seeing myself grow and get better fight after fight until after that day I never looked at PU Mesmers the same. They were demystified. I knew how to beat them because I had put myself through that exercise but even still… it’s just not nearly as fun as fighting any other build.

All the OP was doing, I think, is giving props to the people that haven’t jumped on the PU Bandwagon simply because of how easy it is to use. Hes not saying PU Mesmers don’t deserve respect, but he applauds someone taking the bigger risk of a more engaging build (which is likely being used for a different purpose than the PU build)

I think Chaos brings a very good point and that’s probably what the OP meant. I also had the same experience when PU first came out. I used PU for a long time before I realized that I needed to try out “riskier” builds to push myself and practice getting better at survival and whatnot. Currently playing lockdown and boy, you learn a loooot about timing interrupts! Having experience playing PU also helped me find ways to kill PU mesmers so I guess what I’m trying to say is that trying out different builds will always help you become a better player.

I seriously do not understand how people misunderstood the OP. Seriously. People acting defensive is funny.

Chaos is right. The OP is only saying that he feels more excitement fighting non PU builds. Never did I see that he was in any way bashing PU.

I share the same feeling as Chaos Said when Fighting PU. :gahhh, another PU again.

PvP it’s okay they are not that much of a threat compared to shatter mesmers.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is no reflection on the skill level of the build or of the person behind it, it’s exactly how it sounds: PU Mesmers are simply a chore to fight against.

And you can insert pretty much any cheesy class build there. Because they all have them, and most of the people that are smart enough to run them. Gaaah another 1000hps passive regen Warrior comes to mind.

Well except possibly ranger. My only reflection on them is “Wow is that a ranger? Lolwat???”.

Dawdler.8521:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is no reflection on the skill level of the build or of the person behind it, it’s exactly how it sounds: PU Mesmers are simply a chore to fight against.

And you can insert pretty much any cheesy class build there. Because they all have them, and most of the people that are smart enough to run them. Gaaah another 1000hps passive regen Warrior comes to mind.

I don’t know, sometimes they can lead to some pretty interesting skirmishes. I couldn’t kill this one warrior, but we wouldn’t let eachother get away. In the meantime he had allies come in to try and turn the tide, and then BG (he was JQ) was lurking/chasing us around also. Knowing he wasn’t just going to let himself go down (its not just the passive regen and toughness, but landspeed), I attempted to lead him to dangerous heights, and shut him down so BG could get him. Didnt work, but was a hell of a lot of fun in the end.

I have been running a shatter Mesmer for sometime now. Don’t get me wrong I really Enjoy the build it would be one of my favorite Mesmer builds. However I do have some complaints about it. Especially about the Skill Illusionary Leap. A shatter Mesmer Relies On this skill in order for Their Shatter to hit, but the skill is way to buggy and will miss 70% on a moving target, and if you are lucky enough to hit. There is a short window of time when the player is immobilized they are able to still dodge roll being immobilized just out of range. I find it really annoying that the only non Cheese/OP mesmer build is severely Unreliable. Making it even more difficult to run.

I think I understand the OP, but I think there are two key points here.

1) There are a lot of different Mesmer builds that use stealth and the PU trait. I play a phantasm/power one. It’s very different than the Blackwater build. I’ve fought quite a few different Mesmers with stealth and PU, and the fights have been very different. I fought a really fun fight that I lost against another phantasm PU build, and it was exciting to see the health drops and recoveries. The fight went long enough that you could start to see into how the rotations were coming together (even with the stealths), and my opponent did a better job of anticipating my burst and creating a counter burst.

2) I think there are two kinds of frustration that happen with “tricky” builds. The first kind of frustration is the “wtf” reaction when you don’t understand. Thieves were like that for me in the beginning. And anything that uses stealth (and really clones and staff retreat and blink cause similar confusion) will be frustrating to a player who is new to these mechanics. I don’t see a way around it – the different mechanics are what make the classes unique. The second kind of frustration is knowing that the fight might drag on or end in a disappointment. When I run into warriors, I often assume that they will run away. I know some thieves will break off and run away if the fight doesn’t end quickly in their favor. I think many mesmers that use stealth can fall into this category as well. But I just look at this as part of the reality of the situation in the same way that if I’m roaming solo and find a camp that is upgraded I need to decide if it’s going to be worth the time and effort to mess with it.

For sure, the good fights are really special. But I don’t think I can generalize that all players that use trait X will be good or bad fights for me.

So basically, if I play an uncommon build I get respect?

Well, what about 20/20/30 in PvE? :P

Well actually, one thing I do like about PU power/phantasm builds in particular is that it does make the class much more accessible to new players (in WvW at least). A fellow guildy of mine recently got his Mesmer up to level 80 and went straight for PU with Greatsword, sword/torch in order to comfortably learn of the idiosyncrasies of the class without the risk of being popped by every Thief in the neighbourhood. It’s a good build for getting stuck in and immediately getting some success which should encourage people to stick with the class.

its the perplexity thats the issue not the stealth, perplexity is so ridiculously broken i had to take a month break from the game to chill out

RedCobra.7693:

its the perplexity thats the issue not the stealth, perplexity is so ridiculously broken i had to take a month break from the game to chill out

Took them long enough to nerf, I know. But between it being nerfed now and the +duration still not working, the runeset is really rather weak now.

I loved PU pre buff for the extra stealth duration on a 0/20/30/0/20 S/T + Staff hybrid spec. Now I can’t even run it because I know 90% of power builds don’t have a chance in hell of killing it.

people generalise with PU too much, 9/10 times they will be complaining about a Condi-PU build, the power PU builds still tend to have to come out of stealth to burst enemies

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Mesmer is a fun class to use, and can be a fun class to fight against stealth or not. Trickster or not. Quaelyn you and I have had some really fun duels, PU or not, but it wasn’t always that way. At first it was “Ugh this guy’s using PU, toughness gear AND Illusionary Defender in a duel. Win or lose this is gonna be such a drag.” because slowly tearing through defense after defense isn’t as rewarding/engaging as a higher paced more dangerous fight.

I began having fun when I changed my perspective. I told myself “PU is gonna be really prevalent and I needa learn how to counter it. Learn from each of my mistakes and and improve every duel.” and I did. And I began having fun seeing myself grow and get better fight after fight until after that day I never looked at PU Mesmers the same. They were demystified. I knew how to beat them because I had put myself through that exercise but even still… it’s just not nearly as fun as fighting any other build.

Well you have a very good attitude in that respect, which I’ve told you before. But I don’t really see what you’re saying as contradicting what I am, to be honest.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

All the OP was doing, I think, is giving props to the people that haven’t jumped on the PU Bandwagon simply because of how easy it is to use. Hes not saying PU Mesmers don’t deserve respect, but he applauds someone taking the bigger risk of a more engaging build (which is likely being used for a different purpose than the PU build)

Fine. I’ll admit to being a bit touchy about this after being disparaged over my build choice a zillion times. (Mostly not in this subforum, to be clear.)

But he did say he felt PU users were less worthy of respect. So this is not something I entirely imagined.