Guild Wars 2

Velimere.7685:

My Mesmer uses absolutely zero stealth, and this Mirror Blade nerf really bothers me. I have more hours played in this game than any other game, and I’ll be playing it until Guild Wars 3, but my nerves are definitely tested with this. Let me break it down:

1. We used to be able to trait Illusionary Elasticity for that extra bounce.
2. ArenaNet gave us the extra bounce as baseline and removed the trait.
3. ArenaNet then removed the extra bounce as well.

I’ve been the victim of a few bait-and-switches in my life, but boy do they sure hit me right in the feels every time. I’d much rather have Confounding Suggestions completely reworked into something that offers counter-play than have this nerfed Mirror Blade. Hell, I’ll even make a suggestion:

Confounding Suggestions
Increase daze duration when interrupting a foe.

• Duration increase: 100%

This would make the trait more skill-based like Power Block and offer counter-play in the fact that players can move and dodge while dazed unlike when they are stunned.

Tissitra.4153:

Tha nerf was justified and I would expect there to be more. PU and CS still need to be addressed.

So almost everything that made mesmers better after this patch. Only need to nerf Illusionary Persona and we’re done, right?

Edit:

Velimere.7685:

Velimere.7685:

My Mesmer uses absolutely zero stealth, and this Mirror Blade nerf really bothers me. I have more hours played in this game than any other game, and I’ll be playing it until Guild Wars 3, but my nerves are definitely tested with this. Let me break it down:

1. We used to be able to trait Illusionary Elasticity for that extra bounce.
2. ArenaNet gave us the extra bounce as baseline and removed the trait.
3. ArenaNet then removed the extra bounce as well.

I’ve been the victim of a few bait-and-switches in my life, but boy do they sure hit me right in the feels every time. I’d much rather have Confounding Suggestions completely reworked into something that offers counter-play than have this nerfed Mirror Blade. Hell, I’ll even make a suggestion:

Confounding Suggestions
Increase daze duration when interrupting a foe.

• Duration increase: 100%

This would make the trait more skill-based like Power Block and offer counter-play in the fact that players can move and dodge while dazed unlike when they are stunned.

Interrupting doesn’t daze. It would only work with Diversion.
Perhaps “Interrupts daze (Xs). Increase Daze duration: Y%”

However, that would mean that mesmer will have no hard CC (Fear, Knockdown, Launch, Stun, Knockback, Stun, Taunt, Petrified, Freeze).
Except for:
1.MoA – Can only be mirrored. 60s cd.
2. Magic bullet – Pistol…
3.Signet of Domination – fourty five (It’s censoring the numerical way :S) s cd. Bugged activation time (0.5 instead of 2.5).
And that’s it. Just increase SC’s cooldown, or lessen it’s duration. Don’t completely change it’s function.

Even if (I should probably rather say ‘when’) CS and PU are brought back to sanity, mesmer will still be much better off then prior to the June patch. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is now balanced after just this nerf.

Tissitra.4153:

Even if (I should probably rather say ‘when’) CS and PU are brought back to sanity, mesmer will still be much better off then prior to the June patch. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is now balanced after just this nerf.

Not really.

Pre patch most people wouldn’t use PU because it’s been watered down so much it’s no longer a great defensive option. 1s and a 2/5 chance to get something that might help you not die isn’t great.

Pre patch we had cripple on clone death, gone. We had confusion on clone death, gone. We had a chance at weakness on clone death, gone. I’m glad the damage on clone death is gone but we lost ways to 1. Stop people killing clones like it was going out of fashion or at least slow them down and 2. Ways to control and weaken the enemy.

We did get BD which is nice but forces you to shatter early for the defence. We got buffed PU and CS is actually worth using however remove them and our survivability just tanked back to pre patch levels and that wasn’t a good place.

Once again, we lost all penalties to mowing down our clones and that will start to hurt when people wise up to it as is starting to happen.

apharma.3741:

Tissitra.4153:

Even if (I should probably rather say ‘when’) CS and PU are brought back to sanity, mesmer will still be much better off then prior to the June patch. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is now balanced after just this nerf.

Not really.

Pre patch most people wouldn’t use PU because it’s been watered down so much it’s no longer a great defensive option. 1s and a 2/5 chance to get something that might help you not die isn’t great.

Pre patch we had cripple on clone death, gone. We had confusion on clone death, gone. We had a chance at weakness on clone death, gone. I’m glad the damage on clone death is gone but we lost ways to 1. Stop people killing clones like it was going out of fashion or at least slow them down and 2. Ways to control and weaken the enemy.

We did get BD which is nice but forces you to shatter early for the defence. We got buffed PU and CS is actually worth using however remove them and our survivability just tanked back to pre patch levels and that wasn’t a good place.

Once again, we lost all penalties to mowing down our clones and that will start to hurt when people wise up to it as is starting to happen.

No one used clone death builds in anything serious, let alone the fact the they were strongly nerfed already prior to the June patch, pure condi builds have not been viable for a long time. Also note how mesmers became the overlords after the patch WITH all of these traits removed. The biggest problems are still CS, PU (and possibly illusion/mindwrack damage).

Prepatch using PU meant losing either deceptive evasion or illusionary persona. THIS is the reason it was not used. Now not only does it give ridiculous survivability, you can also use it combined with more burst damage than power shatter had before the patch.

Tissitra.4153:

apharma.3741:

Tissitra.4153:

Even if (I should probably rather say ‘when’) CS and PU are brought back to sanity, mesmer will still be much better off then prior to the June patch. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is now balanced after just this nerf.

Not really.

Pre patch most people wouldn’t use PU because it’s been watered down so much it’s no longer a great defensive option. 1s and a 2/5 chance to get something that might help you not die isn’t great.

Pre patch we had cripple on clone death, gone. We had confusion on clone death, gone. We had a chance at weakness on clone death, gone. I’m glad the damage on clone death is gone but we lost ways to 1. Stop people killing clones like it was going out of fashion or at least slow them down and 2. Ways to control and weaken the enemy.

We did get BD which is nice but forces you to shatter early for the defence. We got buffed PU and CS is actually worth using however remove them and our survivability just tanked back to pre patch levels and that wasn’t a good place.

Once again, we lost all penalties to mowing down our clones and that will start to hurt when people wise up to it as is starting to happen.

No one used clone death builds in anything serious, let alone the fact the they were strongly nerfed already prior to the June patch, pure condi builds have not been viable for a long time. Also note how mesmers became the overlords after the patch WITH all of these traits removed. The biggest problems are still CS, PU (and possibly illusion/mindwrack damage).

Prepatch using PU meant losing either deceptive evasion or illusionary persona. THIS is the reason it was not used. Now not only does it give ridiculous survivability, you can also use it combined with more burst damage than power shatter had before the patch.

No one used PU builds in anything serious as well. You pick and choose the facts that support your theory while dropping the ones that contradict it.

PU is already sub-optimal in “anything serious”. PU mesmers still lose great damage/interrupt traits for taking it. Also, the first two traits chosen in that line are ridiculously weak.

BUT THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD

Tissitra.4153:

No one used clone death builds in anything serious, let alone the fact the they were strongly nerfed already prior to the June patch, pure condi builds have not been viable for a long time. Also note how mesmers became the overlords after the patch WITH all of these traits removed. The biggest problems are still CS, PU (and possibly illusion/mindwrack damage).

Prepatch using PU meant losing either deceptive evasion or illusionary persona. THIS is the reason it was not used. Now not only does it give ridiculous survivability, you can also use it combined with more burst damage than power shatter had before the patch.

Do you not read? I said I didn’t mind losing the damaging conditions but the loss of weakness and cripple mean there is 1. No penalty to killing clones with the massive amounts of cleave most classes have and 2. We have lost defence as we can’t inflict defencive conditions on clone death. We have a GM trait for GS and only GS for cripple otherwise you must interrupt for it.

Pre patch (and PU nerf) you could pick up DE, PU, the 20% MW modifier and cripple on clone death to help kite while burst was on CD. They then nerfed PU and a power shatter PU build was no longer remotely viable at anything as PU just wasn’t worth it.

You essentially traded IE and IP for the increased defence of PU and its aegis, protection and regen which were all good even if 1s extra stealth was a joke. When might and swiftness were added it just wasn’t worth the trade off vs being able to use distortion whenever you needed to.

Ithamir.5928:

As the title suggests, I ask to undo the nerf to Mirror Blade. It was never the issue. It was in the game long before the specialization patch and was never complained about.

The real problem was the Confounding Suggestions & Power Lock combo. Especially when done from stealth. (This is NOT what this thread is about. Please do not discuss this matter here)

Therefore, it’s a hard and unneeded nerf to a long standing trait; Illusionary Elasticity. Which we were promised to get as baseline. Basically removing it for one skill only.

Moreover, in order to get the maximum number of bounces to hit your target, you had to literally stand on your enemy. For a mesmer, the most vulnerable profession in my opinion, it’s very risky. High risk for a high reward tactic, like the mesmer should be.

To summarize, the mesmer main role in pvp is to burst. We can’t sustain in fights for a long period of time, we have to be quick and nimble. In order to achieve that, we have to take risks. This nerf hurts all that, without addressing the real issue. All power mesmers are negatively affected by this nerf, those who use mantras and those who do not.

I disagree, any profession is more likely to died in close range combat, mesmer is not unique in this regard. From my perspective mesmers have alot of options to safely get out of harms way after the burst and disengage, hence thieves and mesmers being pretty much the only real viable burst professions.

Mirror blades is what made CS, Powerlock, Blinking in close range and bursting from stealth so strong and frustrating to deal with. Getting outplayed and downed with a shatter is way less irritating.

Also just played a few games on my mesmer, it still hits like a truck. Personally, im more fed up with the mantra mesmer being nerfed :S.

If skilled players will dodge the last bounce of Mirror Blade anyway, then the only effect of the nerf will be against people who are can’t dodge the bounces, or when you catch someone by surprise with the stun mantra.

So in games with a lower skill level, Mesmers will be easier to deal with, which I don’t think that’s a problem. Stealth burst is less as well, which is fine again because 100-0ing people shouldn’t be possible. And it’s not that big of a nerf anyway, Mesmer will still be a good class.

And can you guys stop going off topic and discussing PU…? FWIW I don’t even use PU any more because Inspiration is so much better (aside from WvW veiling)

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Kicker.8203:

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.

skcamow.3527:

Kicker.8203:

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.

agreed, especially when other classes didnt receive much nerfs, D/D ele still reigns supreme, when it clearly needs a big nerf.

Burst meta was fun while it lasted. T_T

And actually there were quite a few builds who could successfully “tank,” IME. I ran into guardians and eles with tons of sustain and active mitigation. And necros and rangers that were tanky as hell, for that matter.

Ithamir.5928:

Sandrox.9524:

not when you stunned/mesmer is in stealth/4 sec cd skill

Your first two complaints are not about Mirror Blade. They’re about stun and stealth. Your third complaint is painfully wrong. Untraited, it’s 8 cd. There’re two better traits in the same spot of Imagined Burden. But if you desperately want to feel that MB’s cd is OP, then traited using a Grandmaster slot, it’s 6.5 cd.

My comment,was addressed to a guy that saying it is not easy to land mirror blade.In my comment I said that if im stunned,I Cant dodge,if the mesmer in stealth,I wouldnt dodge unless I am spiderman.So it wasnt the stun or stealth complaint its more of mirror blade can get 100% hit chance if the above happens.Comprende?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionist's_Celerity do you even know your class?

skcamow.3527:

Kicker.8203:

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.

what was the nerf?

Sandrox.9524:

skcamow.3527:

Kicker.8203:

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.

what was the nerf?

If I’m not mistaken, they had their damage lowered to about 2/3 what they were previously.

Necrotize.2974:

Sandrox.9524:

skcamow.3527:

Kicker.8203:

It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.

Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.

what was the nerf?

If I’m not mistaken, they had their damage lowered to about 2/3 what they were previously.

Just to clarify, Prisoner did the math on the thread about it on the PvP forum:

Prisoner.2419:

A test with 30 samples gave coefficients of 0.635 (fire) and 0.823 (air). Previous coefficients were 0.85 and 1.1, so these are very close to a 25% damage reduction. I suspect the true values are probably 0.6375 and 0.825 for the exact 25% reduction.

Sandrox.9524:

Ithamir.5928:

Sandrox.9524:

not when you stunned/mesmer is in stealth/4 sec cd skill

Your first two complaints are not about Mirror Blade. They’re about stun and stealth. Your third complaint is painfully wrong. Untraited, it’s 8 cd. There’re two better traits in the same spot of Imagined Burden. But if you desperately want to feel that MB’s cd is OP, then traited using a Grandmaster slot, it’s 6.5 cd.

My comment,was addressed to a guy that saying it is not easy to land mirror blade.In my comment I said that if im stunned,I Cant dodge,if the mesmer in stealth,I wouldnt dodge unless I am spiderman.So it wasnt the stun or stealth complaint its more of mirror blade can get 100% hit chance if the above happens.Comprende?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionist's_Celerity do you even know your class?

Illusionist’s Celerity? No one is even running the Illusions line with power shatter. Only condi mesmers in wvw use the Illusions line. Thus, making Illusionist’s Celerity a non-issue with neither GS nor power shatter . I won’t waste any more time on you. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about, although you pretend to. Mesmer is obviously not your main.

I encourage everyone to go to HoTM and check Mirror Blade on a Target Golem – Light. See how well it does, then come back here and say that the 1 extra bounce was overpowered.

Ithamir.5928:

I encourage everyone to go to HoTM and check Mirror Blade on a Target Golem – Light. See how well it does, then come back here and say that the 1 extra bounce was overpowered.

defoes neds moar nurf, 20% wit 1 attck OP ANET FIX PLOX, but legit we lost a good part of the burst especially with that sigil nerf, which i wasnt even aware of until the one guy mentioned it, the sigil nerf sorta makes sense though on a standpoint that everything did a bit too much damage, but now imo the burst feels almost lackluster because of the missing bounce and less sigil damage.

Hrrrmn. As a thought, what about making the bounce conditional on having Imagined Burden? That’d bring it back to being like the Illusionary Elasticity days – you can do it but you do have to pay an opportunity cost for the privilege.

Why do we have to go back to pre patch days and the rest stay post patch? How about fix or correct the real problem, damage across the boards.

denis.9487:

Why do we have to go back to pre patch days and the rest stay post patch? How about fix or correct the real problem, damage across the boards.

Because we were doing even more damage than a simple stat increase. Now, I have absolutely 0 intention of working out who’s doing more damage on their meta builds across all classes because quite frankly it was annoying enough to do it with Mesmer.

Needless to say if mirror blade is the only thing damage wise we get reduced then you should be thankful and we will generally be in a good place.

However the damage formulae are on the wiki, please work out how much various classes were doing pre patch, then account for stat changes and work it out again.

Doesn’t mean I agree with staff trait nerf, harmonious mantras (though I might do the math on that) or the return to clunky mantras and MtD. However on mirror blade again, if this is their way of toning down our burst and that’s it, we’re in a good spot after.

apharma.3741:

denis.9487:

Why do we have to go back to pre patch days and the rest stay post patch? How about fix or correct the real problem, damage across the boards.

Because we were doing even more damage than a simple stat increase. Now, I have absolutely 0 intention of working out who’s doing more damage on their meta builds across all classes because quite frankly it was annoying enough to do it with Mesmer.

Needless to say if mirror blade is the only thing damage wise we get reduced then you should be thankful and we will generally be in a good place.

However the damage formulae are on the wiki, please work out how much various classes were doing pre patch, then account for stat changes and work it out again.

Doesn’t mean I agree with staff trait nerf, harmonious mantras (though I might do the math on that) or the return to clunky mantras and MtD. However on mirror blade again, if this is their way of toning down our burst and that’s it, we’re in a good spot after.

I hate to break it to you, I doubt this is the end of Mesmer nerfs. PU is probably next and god knows what else (CS maybe?). Funny how the most OP class in D/D Ele got no nerfs.

I wish I read all those above..comments but tl;dr In my opinion I dont understand..Why give us a trait before that gave us additional bounces..then make it baseline…then remove it. My damage has suffered a bit, But I can still manage.

rchu.8945:

I hate to break it to you, I doubt this is the end of Mesmer nerfs. PU is probably next and god knows what else (CS maybe?). Funny how the most OP class in D/D Ele got no nerfs.

It’s not surprising at all actually. Here’s why:

• One profession player base begged for self-nerfs (mesmer) – the other didn’t (ele).
• One killed fast – the other didn’t (doesn’t matter that it was tankier, cleansed & healed allies, had KDs and had aoe & condi damage).
• One had a hated mechanic (stealth) – the other didn’t.
• One was scarce before the buffs – the other was prevalent for years.

Khyber.1284:

I wish I read all those above..comments but tl;dr In my opinion I dont understand..Why give us a trait before that gave us additional bounces..then make it baseline…then remove it. My damage has suffered a bit, But I can still manage.

It affects other things besides GS, staff and I think certain phantasms.

Also rchu, yeah I know, I can live with a tweak to CS so long as it still remains a guaranteed stun under conditions but if they nerf PU back to pre patch mesmer is just gonna be a crap WvW class again. It would also probably force everyone playing power shatter into inspiration as there’s nothing better to run…

Khyber.1284:

I wish I read all those above..comments but tl;dr In my opinion I dont understand..Why give us a trait before that gave us additional bounces..then make it baseline…then remove it. My damage has suffered a bit, But I can still manage.

combined with the stealth nerf to fire and air sigils, the MB nerf is overkill to balance Mesmers.

All the bads who swarmed the mesmer class due to the updates making them OP and successful without any skill…

A couple nerfs now ya’ll getting trashed like you should on your newbie Mesmers.

Good start Anet, we still need a little more nerfing.. Still too easy and boring.,.. Take a look at the torch trait next please.

dank.3680:

All the bads who swarmed the mesmer class due to the updates making them OP and successful without any skill…

I’m happy that new players picked up Mesmer for a change! It’s nice to see more people discovering the profession that I love so much.

I hate seeing it only played by a few. Either elitists who only play it because it’s so nerfed that it’s considered “high-skilled” and not newb friendly. Or those who don’t care about being “meta” or the best and play it because they like the style of the profession.

And besides, I’ve been playing Mesmer since GW1’s Beta. More than 10 years now, more than a decade. All the people here love the Mesmer class. Doesn’t matter for how long they’ve been playing.

But trolls will be trolls. Bon appetit.

dank.3680:

All the bads who swarmed the mesmer class due to the updates making them OP and successful without any skill…

I did not have much trouble with most of the bads. They did better than they would before but honestly I think those bads could’ve done just as well playing warriors, mediguards, cele eles, pre-patch S/D evade-spam thieves.

That’s because, fundamentally, every good build in this game is designed to “carry” you some. That’s what makes a good build. People rage about overkill bursts, high mobility, great CC, or lots of sustain and “oh kitten” buttons, and general error tolerance but that’s the foundation of any great build.

Does that mean nothing in the world can be overpowered? No. Far from.

But this “No skills!” thing is a joke. Picking up builds that will work for you is also a skill. Learning a new build quickly, even if you’re not amazing with it, is a skill. We saw folks who spent years getting carried by their profession crying about how an actually-good mesmer build could do that as well.

(My main complaint — that Confounding Suggestions incentivized learning a key-press combo over learning good situational awareness, thereby making mesmers play more like the early days of stupid one-hit-wonder thief builds — was addressed pretty poorly. Alas.)

ASP.8093:

dank.3680:

All the bads who swarmed the mesmer class due to the updates making them OP and successful without any skill…

I did not have much trouble with most of the bads. They did better than they would before but honestly I think those bads could’ve done just as well playing warriors, mediguards, cele eles, pre-patch S/D evade-spam thieves.

That’s because, fundamentally, every good build in this game is designed to “carry” you some. That’s what makes a good build. People rage about overkill bursts, high mobility, great CC, or lots of sustain and “oh kitten” buttons, and general error tolerance but that’s the foundation of any great build.

Does that mean nothing in the world can be overpowered? No. Far from.

But this “No skills!” thing is a joke. Picking up builds that will work for you is also a skill. Learning a new build quickly, even if you’re not amazing with it, is a skill. We saw folks who spent years getting carried by their profession crying about how an actually-good mesmer build could do that as well.

(My main complaint — that Confounding Suggestions incentivized learning a key-press combo over learning good situational awareness, thereby making mesmers play more like the early days of stupid one-hit-wonder thief builds — was addressed pretty poorly. Alas.)

QFT.

Very well said. I couldn’t have said it better. Although I’ve tried above :P. Kudos.

apharma.3741:

serenke.4806:

To all the genius people in this thread and elsewhere… Mirror Blade is something that you can DODGE hilariously easily.

If Anet follows their present route of nerfing every class that can burst, you will have a glorious celestial meta again, where eles are going through endless rotations and barely damage each other, cleanse all conditions, engis will quietly get their range back so they don’t feel left out and then all you still need is the shoutbow since Anet will have to fix the warriors (they cannot stay in this rampage or gtfo state).

Too bad that the celestial meta is plain boring as kitten.

Most mesmers know this however most of these genius people also know how things work. Frankly if this is the only thing we get reduced in damage and the mantra modifier (which I don’t really think needed nerfing) then that’s great.

They could have reduced the 15% baseline on phantasms, reduced MW by 10%, removed fragility, nerfed master fencer and a whole host of other things and believe me those are a lot stronger than a 1.5k extra bounce.

if it was really like you say; why do you all cry about it?

Dear Anet… thanks for making MB useless.. just been testing it on golem and ur lucky if it hit twice standing right next to him… no more fun in wvw tagging the blobs either… at least try give us the trait option for it back! Shatter skills r pretty useless in blob wars where your clones doesnt survive a second! so the MB was the only usable burst skill we had.. now its gone!
Dont understand how can u listen to few QQ elitists out of thousands of players …killing all the fun the average players can have… sadly those few are also the only who go QQ on the forums and u count em as most players i guess… shame

You give us new toys and then take em away…. bravo! I expect big nerfs on all fronts coz QQ never stop doesnt matter what and we end up playing kitten wars again!

now go nerf/remove PU, GD, HG, JB, KLI, OPA, BG…..

Have a nice day…
Bye

Seyiwaji.4082:

apharma.3741:

Most mesmers know this however most of these genius people also know how things work. Frankly if this is the only thing we get reduced in damage and the mantra modifier (which I don’t really think needed nerfing) then that’s great.

They could have reduced the 15% baseline on phantasms, reduced MW by 10%, removed fragility, nerfed master fencer and a whole host of other things and believe me those are a lot stronger than a 1.5k extra bounce.

if it was really like you say; why do you all cry about it?

I’ll assume because people haven’t done the math or thought more about the damage process besides big numbers go down. I’ve yet to do the math on HM so I can’t say if it did or didn’t need a nerf, I’m inclined to say not though.

However many are crying because Anet has a history of over nerfing mesmers so you can’t blame them for being very touchy on this. It probably doesn’t help that we’re not given reasons. Especially when something like this was no issue in the past but suddenly is because….a team used 2 mesmers and nearly beat Abjured?

Can they add this to the GS Domination trait, imagined burdens? I’m missing that bounce so much

They should undo the creation of Mesmer.

I agree. Don’t nerf mirror blade. And what the heck is with nerf to the mantras in such a way ;0 now there is no point again.

CruleD.7380:

They should undo the creation of Mesmer.

Yeah – if you mean, what I think you do, then mesmers-creation should be re-done in and mesmers could be like they were in GW1. Stealth and thieves could go to that same place imo (as I reacall, they even advertised that this would be a stealth-free game … ).

@Koolaid: What did you expect with the massive whine from especially thieves? We can’t have mesmers competing for their spot, and now we took away their juicy bone, their free kill.

I am not sure if one should laugh or cry about the massive amount of misconceptions regarding mesmers. Everything from 66666-builds to never-ending sustain. There is a reason, why mesmers run the builds they run – and it is pretty much the same reasons people are complaining about when it comes to their own class.

Tissitra.4153:

Even if (I should probably rather say ‘when’) CS and PU are brought back to sanity, mesmer will still be much better off then prior to the June patch. You are kidding yourself if you think that it is now balanced after just this nerf.

So when PU is ‘brought back to sanity’ will you also be demnading a look into Theif and their higher stealth access?

Of course you won’t.

ASP.8093:

dank.3680:

All the bads who swarmed the mesmer class due to the updates making them OP and successful without any skill…

I did not have much trouble with most of the bads. They did better than they would before but honestly I think those bads could’ve done just as well playing warriors, mediguards, cele eles, pre-patch S/D evade-spam thieves.

That’s because, fundamentally, every good build in this game is designed to “carry” you some. That’s what makes a good build. People rage about overkill bursts, high mobility, great CC, or lots of sustain and “oh kitten” buttons, and general error tolerance but that’s the foundation of any great build.

Does that mean nothing in the world can be overpowered? No. Far from.

But this “No skills!” thing is a joke. Picking up builds that will work for you is also a skill. Learning a new build quickly, even if you’re not amazing with it, is a skill. We saw folks who spent years getting carried by their profession crying about how an actually-good mesmer build could do that as well.

(My main complaint — that Confounding Suggestions incentivized learning a key-press combo over learning good situational awareness, thereby making mesmers play more like the early days of stupid one-hit-wonder thief builds — was addressed pretty poorly. Alas.)

I did not have a problem with the bads either, that is fighting against them, obviously. What I have an issue with is when a swarm of people start playing only because of an overpowered too easy to use wombo combo 1 hit wonder pony with unending forgiveness. Then cry and quit when it gets a slight nerf.

No other classes don’t get 100% protection uptime along with invulns and just how long can we now maintain stealth without revealing once? So yeah, they don’t do near as well.

My issue with it is two fold.
1- I want it to be more challenging when I play my Mesmer which is my main class since forever. Right now I’t silly what I can get away with in WvW(I am wvw player I don’t care if you think it counts). Playing either power or condi, especially condi is ridiculous, even still post patch.

2- I don’t want my favorite class popular because of some stupid gimmick with braindead levels of play.

So yeah I’m glad the FOTM mesmers are crying and I’m not seeing them as much. I still want some touches to be made so that when I win a fight its not because “oh you are a pu mesmer”…

Personally my opinion is the cooldown reductions caused by the chaos armor trait and torch trait, are very unbalanced.

dank.3680:

I did not have a problem with the bads either, that is fighting against them, obviously. What I have an issue with is when a swarm of people start playing only because of an overpowered too easy to use wombo combo 1 hit wonder pony with unending forgiveness. Then cry and quit when it gets a slight nerf.

Okay, but screw those people. Ruining a class you (hopefully) actually like and understand to spite them is even worse than caving to the tears of people who’ve spent three years playing this game without learning anything about mesmers but are really mad when they get beat by one.

dank.3680:

No other classes don’t get 100% protection uptime along with invulns and just how long can we now maintain stealth without revealing once? So yeah, they don’t do near as well.

None of this is at all related to what was nerfed. People do this all the time and it’s, like, one of the most annoying things in the game. A PU condi troll mez isn’t a mantra shatter mez isn’t a CI lockdown mez. So pointing to any of these builds to justify nerfing an entirely different one is dead stupid.

dank.3680:

1- I want it to be more challenging when I play my Mesmer which is my main class since forever. Right now I’t silly what I can get away with in WvW(I am wvw player I don’t care if you think it counts). Playing either power or condi, especially condi is ridiculous, even still post patch.

You could pursue more dangerous situations. WvW isn’t about 1v1 or even about killing abject baddies outnumbered.

You could play a less “safe” build.

Every single person complaining about not being “challenged” enough: is Portal on your skill bar? If it’s not, frankly, I don’t care about your opinion. Because you could sacrifice just a bit of your personal survivability for amazing — AMAZING! — team utility but you’re not doing it.

dank.3680:

2- I don’t want my favorite class popular because of some stupid gimmick with braindead levels of play.

The correct solution to that was to start by nerfing the spammable snare. That was the “gimmick.” These things that are not a “gimmick:”
1. Shattering. (That’s our entire class mechanic.)
2. Burst. (That’s the basis of half the game.)
3. Mantras that are actually pleasant to use. (Could they have used a reduction in power to make up for the de-facto cooldown reduction of the new mechanic? I think so.)

dank.3680:

So yeah I’m glad the FOTM mesmers are crying and I’m not seeing them as much. I still want some touches to be made so that when I win a fight its not because “oh you are a pu mesmer”…

Then don’t play PU.

Oh, they’ll say that even if you’re not playing PU? That’s because they are scrubs of the highest order. Bad players have been complaining about being beaten by “OP” builds that you’re not even running since time immemorial. THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY CLASS. If you want it not to happen with mesmers, you basically have to wish for nerfs so colossal that there are no builds remotely competitive with other classes.

I’m not here to play misery poker about how I am the best because I play a garbage class but still gets kills sometimes. I’m here for sharp-edged glass butterflies and the interrupts and the jukes and the sheer beauty and joy of it all.

The specialization patch had a lot of rough edges (because it involved rewriting nearly all the traits), but it completely revitalized the class. But in order for mesmer to stay that way, it needs balance patches that actually hit the broken stuff, not everything else first and then the broken stuff only after everyone is reduced to a slowly-shrinking gimmick build that’s still held up by its never-nerfed core gimmick. (Anet tends to do this, unfortunately.)

dank.3680:

Personally my opinion is the cooldown reductions caused by the chaos armor trait and torch trait, are very unbalanced.

That whole thing was bad design to begin with. It’s impossible to get the numbers to a truly good spot.

Omg first actually read what I wrote, then if you choose to edit your response I might actually care enough to respond.

And please leave out the baseless assumptions, personal attacks and passive aggressive garbage, thanks.

ASP.8093:

Oh, they’ll say that even if you’re not playing PU? That’s because they are scrubs of the highest order. Bad players have been complaining about being beaten by “OP” builds that you’re not even running since time immemorial.

You mean you haven’t figured out how to get the 6/6/6/6/6 build?

I’m not here to play misery poker about how I am the best because I play a garbage class but still gets kills sometimes. I’m here for sharp-edged glass butterflies and the interrupts and the jukes and the sheer beauty and joy of it all.

Amen! Preach it!

The specialization patch had a lot of rough edges (because it involved rewriting nearly all the traits), but it completely revitalized the class. But in order for mesmer to stay that way, it needs balance patches that actually hit the broken stuff, not everything else first and then the broken stuff only after everyone is reduced to a slowly-shrinking gimmick build that’s still held up by its never-nerfed core gimmick. (Anet tends to do this, unfortunately.)

This, times infinity.

BUMP.

Now with the upcoming nerf to PU, can we please revert the nerf to Mirror Blade?

Ithamir.5928:

BUMP.

Now with the upcoming nerf to PU, can we please revert the nerf to Mirror Blade?

Surely the nerf hurts quite a bit. But now I attribute the problem more to the sustain meta rather than lack of damage.

Most other zerker builds also struggle with bursting people down. At least we still have pretty strong shatter.

I agree, the mirror blade nerf should not have been done in my opinion. What people forget is that mesmer had this looong before specialization patch- when mesmer was regarded as one of the three weakest professions by most. Mesmer damage today is at its lowest point in a long time. The problem with new mesmer does NOT lie in the damage, which was there before the patch already. It lies in the survivability and ease of burst setup.

Think about it; compare the past to now.

Mesmer used to have very little defense and no condition removal. It also had very little burst setup in terms of CC, the only one being sword immob which could be dodged easily. The trade-off was that if an experienced mesmer played really well, he could be an asset to the team because of the damage spikes. It required skill to execute and even more so to survive.

Mesmer now has crazy survivability through PU and Blinding Dissipation that makes surviving on mesmer much, much easier than before specialization patch. There is very little room for a good mesmer to play better than a bad mesmer in this regard because it is so forgiving. Additionally, new mesmer has confounding suggestions. This makes setting up bursts (im thinking mirror blade mind wrack) a breeze. What would previously require coordination with the team, counting dodges, or timing, now requires a simple button press for the instant hard CC into burst. Again, there is very little difference between a dedicated mesmer who has played for thousands of hours and a mesmer who rolled the class last week and practiced bursts for an hour.

So, the new mesmer can be played with bad positioning and bad mechanics, and still survive and burst people easily. Therefore, people started to complain about the damage. This in turn lead to ANet nerfing mirror blade. While it works to limit some of the mesmer’s power, it cripples good players alot. The difference between a good/decent mesmer and a great mesmer on the Meta PU build, is now neglectable.

Sorry for the long post.

I agree, a strange nerf to offset PU burst. Would like to see it reverted.

I thought damage was a little high before, but that was before sigil nerfs.

With the sigil nerfs I feel it is a little to low now, and the game never got to see any longevity of the middle ground.

I think it should at least added to “Imagined Burden” since it would disallow for the use with “Mental Anguish” or “Power block” which could be considered an aspect of it’s balance, as well as making the less popular trait more appealing.

Daishi.6027:

I thought damage was a little high before, but that was before sigil nerfs.

With the sigil nerfs I feel it is a little to low now, and the game never got to see any longevity of the middle ground.

I think it should at least added to “Imagined Burden” since it would disallow for the use with “Mental Anguish” or “Power block” which could be considered an aspect of it’s balance, as well as making the less popular trait more appealing.

Actually a pretty good idea. That trait is currently under performing and needs a little something something to compete with power block/ mind wrack dmg.