Guild Wars 2

For sPvP:

After messing around with many different builds, I keep coming back to the current standard of 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer with Staff / Sword + X (usually Pistol, sometimes Torch) and obviously zerkers amulet. Utils:

Mirror Images / Blink / Decoy / Mass Inivs.

I’d like to improve my game. While I win almost all of my 1v1s, 2v1s really mess me up. First of all, I know that going against 2 other experienced players is usually suicide anyways, but I still would like to win the occasional 2v1s vs. average players. I know I can run, and winning is more important, but nothing gives me a rush like winning outnumbered fights. So far I’ve only pulled it off once, and the enemies were abysmal.

Questions:
1. Is this even feasible? Or should I always expect to lose on a shatter mesmer in outnumbered situations in pvp? It was possible for me on other professions, though I wasn’t playing as glassy. It seems like all the tools are there, maybe I’m just missing something.

2. What sort of rotation works best here to maximize burst to get one target down ASAP? I assume it’s something like:
p.Duelist -> Magic Bullet -> Dodge In -> iLeap -> Blurred Frenzy + Diversion -> Mirror Images -> Dodge in -> Mind Wrack

3. Should I start in Sword / X, or Staff?

4. What do you think about the utils? Is Mirror Images a waste? I ran with Feedback for a while and it’s great for shutting down rangers and engies.

5. Offhands, what’s more important? Invis from torch, or more pressure via the Duelist? Or am I completely wrong by not using the focus?

Please keep in mind that this is for sPvP only. I’m not concerned with WvW, and I’ve already seen many videos of people 2+v1’ing there. I would appreciate any feedback you guys have.

focus gives the extra utility of an interrupt while you stomp the guy you bursted down.

mesmers dont have enough stealths to win a sustained 1v2, unlike theives. you need mirror images to burst 1 guy down.

What Amulet are you running? What other utilities do you use? I tend to use Knights with Zerk jewel for the extra survivability.

I try and look at my two weaponsets as Offense/Defense. Usually Staff for defense and Sword/Sword (Drizzt fanboy) for offense. In most cases, you have to assume that your enemy is as competent as you are… even if theres two of them.

Now scenarios can vary.. If you’re fighting 1v1 and see a second person coming to help your opponent, try to gather as much info as you can on your first opponent. Is he glassy? Tanky? Generally, the higher the defenses the lower the damage output… So try and take out the squishier, more damaging enemy first. Always try to focus on one target at a time

I like to start with staff.. I’ll summon the Warlock first, and when they get close drop Chaos Storm (its far better to use Chaos Storm on yourself than an enemy at range, and best used when fighting a target trying to melee you). Not only does this give me some nice defenses (and likely hits them with Daze/5xVuln), but more than likely it’ll force them to blow a dodge. Learning to count the opponents dodges is hella important for a Shatter Mes, as the best time to hit them with your burst is when their endurance is drained.

• When I’m going for a heavy burst, I’ll use iLeap > Swap>Blurred-Mirror Images- Frenzy > Mind Wrack(F1)… and THEN summon the phantasms for some sustained damage until the 10 secs it takes for the shatter to cooldown..

• Without Mirror Images, it’d be Phase Retreat > Dodge > iLeap/Swap > Blurred Mind Wrack

For Pistol, I’d save Magic Bullet as a defense. Against two enemies, its a stun on one and daze on another. As usual, its better to kite and stay defensive while looking for holes in your opponent’s defenses. Paying attention to the enemies actions and reacting accordingly is higher priority than forcing a burst for the sake of damage.

.. hope that helps a bit!

What rank are you?
There should be 0 chance of you 2 v 1ing with shatter, unless you are playing terrible players.
In fact, despite what some people say, shatter is not dominant 1v1.
Shatter’s strength lies in its burst and utility (illusion of life, portal, etc…)

twity.4732:

What rank are you?
There should be 0 chance of you 2 v 1ing with shatter, unless you are playing terrible players.
In fact, despite what some people say, shatter is not dominant 1v1.
Shatter’s strength lies in its burst and utility (illusion of life, portal, etc…)

Almost rank 40, but I haven’t played a tournament on this mesmer yet and I’m new to the class itself, it’s mostly just random hotjoin to get a feel for it and have some fun when I’m not doing other things.

I was just wondering if maybe I was missing some major tactics that experienced shatter mesmers use all the time or something. It sounds like I’m probably not.

You cannot win 1v2+ against good players as any class/build, period.

All the WvW roaming vids where you see players destroying multiple dudes to electro tracks, those enemies are terrible players, or at the very best are terrible in comparison to the guy posting the video.

You can test this yourself, head into WvW and go roaming. Assuming you are pretty decent you WILL win a lot of 1v2+ fights, but in tPvP against strong players with decent builds? No chance.

This probably doesn’t apply to you so much, but I’d like to put down anyone it might help: Beating multiple players for me I feel is firstly and primarily about simply being quick. Having strong mechanics – that is always moving, always doing something, always having the next move ready – is the most important factor dividing strong players from the weaker. 1v2+ is all about the difference in basic skill between you and your opponents.

The thing you may be missing, is making sure to get that mirror images in there for an even bigger burst.
What I do is 3 clone mind wrack on the blurred frenzy, then as I’m blurred frenzying, I mirror images into cry of frustration. This hits ppl really hard… The only problem is you’re gustos lost for a little while after this.

twity.4732:

The thing you may be missing, is making sure to get that mirror images in there for an even bigger burst.
What I do is 3 clone mind wrack on the blurred frenzy, then as I’m blurred frenzying, I mirror images into cry of frustration. This hits ppl really hard… The only problem is you’re gustos lost for a little while after this.

I’ve tried that too, but doesn’t popping mirror images interrupt your blurred frenzy? I guess you could use it at the end, but by then my target is usually frantically trying to get away via dodges / invulns / whatever.

Edit: Oh, one more question. How important is it to get off a Diversion shatter before a full mind wrack (with Dazzling traited)? Do you guys do it all the time as part of your rotation, or just whenever you can, maybe in the middle of a fight?

Switch to 0/20/20/0/30 and run staff. Stack power and toughness in your gear stats.

Staff is an excellent up-close-and-shatter-your-face weapon. With the c/d trait and the extra bounce trait it’s a lot of fun.

Brew Pinch.5731:

You cannot win 1v2+ against good players as any class/build, period.

All the WvW roaming vids where you see players destroying multiple dudes to electro tracks, those enemies are terrible players, or at the very best are terrible in comparison to the guy posting the video.

You can test this yourself, head into WvW and go roaming. Assuming you are pretty decent you WILL win a lot of 1v2+ fights, but in tPvP against strong players with decent builds? No chance.

This probably doesn’t apply to you so much, but I’d like to put down anyone it might help: Beating multiple players for me I feel is firstly and primarily about simply being quick. Having strong mechanics – that is always moving, always doing something, always having the next move ready – is the most important factor dividing strong players from the weaker. 1v2+ is all about the difference in basic skill between you and your opponents.

Yeah, I figured as much, especially for tPvP. I do appreciate the advice, and honestly that’s why I really wanted to point out that I was curious if this was possible for PvP because as you said, WvW is a bit of a different animal. I’ve asked people questions like this before, and usually I get a link to a video which is exactly how you described (electro music and everything lol).

As for everyone else, thanks again for the tips. I will try to incorporate these things into my playstyle. Oh, and I’ll have to try that other build too!

If you do try 0/20/20/0/30 with the staff, don’t neglect power. You’ll need the power. Some players think staff is a pure condition weapon — I disagree. It can hit pretty hard and at point blank range with the bounce trait it’s 2x dmg.

The iWarlock can hit like a truck when it crits with high power as well.

I shoot for 1800+ power, 1800+ toughness, 40% crit chance. Anything on top of than (including crit dmg, condi dmg, etc) is bonus. Remember you’ll have 300 condi dmg anyway from 30 in the mez trait line.

1: yes, it is more than possible vs 2 average players. Never try to burst someone down when its too dangerous, always have an escape plan.
Example: when you want to do a full shatter combo, make sure you have weaponswap to staff, blink or decoy off cooldown( or a defensive off hand).
Fighting outnumbered is practically the same as fighting 1vs1, you jump in the fight, do burstdamage, and jump out while unharmed. In a 1vs2 you do exactly this, but uoull take much more damage when you make a mistake.
Ond thing rhat can help is terrain with obstacles, like the wolf in the spirit map. You can stand behind the stones etc while you wait for cooldowns to recharge, use illusionary leap from behind the stone (the clone will jump around it), do buretdamage, and escape again.
Always knowing what to do next is very inportant if you want to control the fight!

2: i wouldnt mind sticking to a certain rotation, atleast not a very long one like ou mentioned in the Op. Alot of things can happen in a few seconds. I recommend using very short rotations, and chain them through improvisation.
I commonly use a move/combo i call phase dodge (name is subject to change : D), where i dodge through my target and phase retreat away, making them turn the camera. If theyre turning he camera i van quickly weapon switch and illusionary leap and burst. But if im low on health or if my target is blocking, i can decide to stay in staff and kite instead.
Focussing on what is happening is more important than sticking to a certain rotation, but knowing short and easy to use ones is very usefull, especially after a while when you dont have to think anymore.
Its better not to burst 1 target down as soon as possible, but to try to hit them both at the same time, or the one wih the lowest defence, untill theyre low hp.
Example: a backstab thief and a greatsword berserker guardian, the guardian has high sustained damage if i get close but i can easily kite him, in the meanwhile i keep my ees glued on the thief to avoid potential backstabs. The thief had the least hp and does the most damage, so he will be my first target. Kiting the guardian at the same time shouldnt be a problem due to their low mobility.

3: i like starting in staff to summon the warlock, after that depends on the situation. If im fighting a staff necro i like usin phase retreat to dodge out of it etc, or when im on flat terrain without obstacles i wait for the enemies to make the first move ( they will probably get over confinded because they outnumber me, thus becoming predictable and lettin me dodge their burst). After i dodged it i just couter burst, but it depends on the situation.

4: mirror images is a must for a perfect shatter, start of eith 3 diversion, then use leap and mirror images mind wrack for a burst with 25 vulnerability. In Spvp i like having portal over mirror images, sometimes i use arcane thievery aswell, depends on how many conditions there are.

5: i never actually use a pistol unless im running phantasm or interupt. Im starting to get used tothe torch, but focus is still my favourite!
The torfh focus and sword all have a defensive skill, while the pistol is mainly offensive. The focus is great for pullin people together and bursting them at the same time, aswell as sometimes securing a finisher.

Lastly: always have a plan ready for when youre about to down someone! You van block projeftile interupts by simply placing a cline between you and the downed enemy, you can use distortion etc. If their teammate is too close and you suspect reviving, place a temporal curtain just before you finish, when the teammate starts regiving you can pull him away.
If theyre both low health you can use a leap and burst the person who is dtill up to try and down them at the same time!

If youre interested i have some videos in my signature below, its in WvW, but still outnumbered solo pvp.

TL;DR: always know what youre doing next, try to use terrain to your advantage.

That was a huge wall of text ._.

Hope this helps anyway,
Alissah

Appreciate the feedback!

Yeah, as you mentioned I think an important point I’m starting to learn is less reliance on rotations. Improvisation seems to be a big factor in doing well as a shatter mesmer, because rotations often fail. I’m still working to improve on this, I had no idea this style of play could have such a high skill ceiling!

I’ve noticed that by using shatters when the enemy gets within melee range (or I do) regardless of iLeap + BF is a good way to keep pressure on an enemy without worrying about whats on cooldown.

Using shatters without blurred frenzy is indeed a good way to keep pressure. Sometimes i like using cry of frustration whenever i dodge in close proximity to someone.
Also keep in mind: when a bad player panics, they often act very predictable! As someone else mentioned here: usually when you finish your shatter combo, people dodge after thr immobilize wears of, for some reason!
If you do something that makes a bad player panic, and you can predict what theyre doing after, youll have a huge advantage.
Dodging or not dodging our Ileap makes the difference between a good and bad player. If you see your target dodging it alot, you van try using only leap bu not swapping to let them waste a dodge! Or delay your swap untill the dodge ends and your clone ran up to him.
And yes, the skill ceiling is insane, after 1700 hours im far from reaching it :p. Which is also one of the reasons i love mesmers so much.

Cheers,
Alissah

Alot of good tips. Cant add alot but can tell hwo I play in spvp/tpvp in 1 vs 2 ~situations.

Spec I use is 0-20-20-0-30 shatter cat heavy 2.0, Holebreak runes and battle sigils. Clesial amulet. I keep use the focus to land my cripples and shatters on more than one target, the might stacks + celesial amulet put a steady preasure on several oponents. I simple keep preasure steady and when I se one player take more dmg than the otehr I start focus him.

Delayed leaps is effective versus skilled players like Alissah say. So is a focus pull + mindwrack shatter withoutleap. Put down a pull field when you have 2-3 clones up, make a curtan pull and start a sword 2 + shatter when they land at your feat, they ofetn take dmg and then use aimmunity or escape, folow up with your iLeap + cripple and keep preasure up.

/Osicat

^ Osicat beat me to it. Definitely focus in larger situations. Great thing about spvp is the terrain is extremely adaptable, so in any 1v2 situation you should be able to kite enough to get LOS on one, or separate one from the other. (focus pull one off ledge, kill the other while his team mate is running back up. Basic divide and conquer tactics. Remember not all people pan their screen as much as us mesmers do so usually the safest place is behind your opponents. Depends on the situation but a good trick I use is to run in one direction, and every time you stealth switch directions, or dodge roll backwards and let them run past you. This works on the average players pretty well.

Some classes are extremely easy to deal with as a mesmer, some aren’t. It’s a matter of determining player skill/class identification to decide who to target first. The Mesmer has so many stealths/blinks/ a portal and can easily be the most combat mobile class, sometimes Its just about being patient and waiting for your enemies to make the mistakes.

If you’re starting the 1v2 fight, keep in mind that you can cast a skill with a weapon, and before it connects, weapon swap.

What this does is the skill gets cast (say, Chaos Storm or any Phantasm) and before ANY damage gets dealt, you swap weapons. Basically, your skill now does damage, you’re in combat, you’re using a weaponset with all skills off cooldown AND your weapon swap is off cooldown, meaning you can weapon swap whenever you want. It’s a useful strategy for starting a fight, but it requires pre-planning and running around in your secondary weapon set.

Thanks for everything guys, especially Osicat. I’ve started to run his suggested build in sPvP and have been having surprisingly good success with it. I always figured that anything but berserkers and the typical shatter setup was a waste, but it has been working out.

I can’t down single targets as fast, but I have a much better chance of surviving in bad situations and can have more sustain during group fights.

As for 1v2’s, I can do them rarely if I’m fighting bads. I think I’ve been facing better opponents recently so that’s part of the problem. But for 1v1’s I’m always confident now.

I would really love to see a pvp match with a shatter mesmer winning a 2v1 so I could take some further notes, but so far so good

Edit: Forgot to add that one of the most crucial things I’ve learned for anyone else is that setting up “the perfect” burst or rotation is often not needed. I get better results when I just move with the flow of combat and shatter when in range and combine it with steady pressure instead of trying to set up some magical insta-kill trap.

Jericho.4521:

I would really love to see a pvp match with a shatter mesmer winning a 2v1 so I could take some further notes, but so far so good.

Hello, i was skimming through some old posts to find something, but i realised you have a question open!

Lately ive been very busy with my internehip, so i didnt get a lot of time to play or make videos, but i did manage to make one thats foussed on tournaments. I mainly supported the mid fight, jumpijg in and out, bursting targets and placing chaos storms and temporal curtains.
But at the very end of the video i also have a 1vs2 ;D, yes, its even in a tourney!
Sadly, its very very messy. They were both using offensive amulets so it was over wuite quickly.
Things to note: i kind of panicked because trying to 1vs2 in a tourney is a very bad idea, but they were both glassy so it was worth a try.
When i downed the thief i immediatally applied pressure with the chaos storm, preventing the warrior from reviving! I tried making sure i damaged her enough before going down.

Now i think of it, i also have another 1vs2 (kind of), that shows how to deal with a downed enemy quite well.

Temporal curtain, chaos storm, diversion, aoe damage are all very usefull when someone is downed!

#/watch?v=K5Wsql5HZfY heres the link, i cant make a clickable picture or something because im currently on mobile. Skip to 7:10 to see 2 short 1vs2s.

I plan to do more spvp outnumbered fights in the future, so subscribe to stay tuner, if you like ^__^.

Cheers,
Alissah