Guild Wars 2

I’m at best a mid-level sPvP player, and while I usually run (and have the most fun with) zerk shatter, I recently changed it up a bit and started playing around running (non-PU) condition. I noticed that my survivability has gone through the roof and I’m still able to take down most classes, and I can even last an additional 10 sec or so on point, but I’m wondering if this is mostly a result of the mid-level competition I’m facing.

So my question is: Is condition memser viable in mid-upper level sPvP, and why or why not?

you should read the closed thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Mtd-in-ranked-pvp/page/3#post4936967

Bunda.2691:

and I can even last an additional 10 sec or so on point, but I’m wondering if this is mostly a result of the mid-level competition I’m facing.

For mesmer: power > condi. I think the main problem is you were actually trying to stay on the point, something a power mesmer shouldn’t even think about.

Here’s the general consensus.

If you’re going to play in tournaments: Condition isnt going to work (but then neither is mesmer in general)

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it: No one’s going to carry you as a Power Shatter.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it vs premades: it doesnt matter, you’re going to lose the match anyway.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it, premade, vs pugs, casuals, whatever comes out of that low to high level silly MMR system: use anything you like, just be a boss with it.

MtD Shatter has working well for me thus far. Survivability and a good amount of damage combining the confusion and torment. Condi has the survivability to do a bit more in-fighting than power shatter. Mostly, keep a trump after laying down some high-stacked initial conditions in case the enemy cleanses, meaning you can quickly reapply.

At “below-highest” tier, condi mesmer is viable so far as I know. At least, as viable as Power Shatter.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Here’s the general consensus.

If you’re going to play in tournaments: Condition isnt going to work (but then neither is mesmer in general)

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it: No one’s going to carry you as a Power Shatter.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it vs premades: it doesnt matter, you’re going to lose the match anyway.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it, premade, vs pugs, casuals, whatever comes out of that low to high level silly MMR system: use anything you like, just be a boss with it.

Well stated!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Here’s the general consensus.

If you’re going to play in tournaments: Condition isnt going to work (but then neither is mesmer in general)

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it: No one’s going to carry you as a Power Shatter.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it vs premades: it doesnt matter, you’re going to lose the match anyway.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it, premade, vs pugs, casuals, whatever comes out of that low to high level silly MMR system: use anything you like, just be a boss with it.

This.

But I’ll add to the conversation with these general statements that should be obvious but might not be to some:

• Condi Mesmer has a lot more sustainability. You’ll last longer in fights.
• Condi Mesmer also has a lot more flexibility in the types of utilities you can use.
• You will NOT burst people while on Condi Mesmer. It takes time for you to really turn the tide of a fight. Like, a lot of time for the dmg output to get up there. And because time is of the essence, this is generally why condition Mesmer allegedly doesn’t work in top tier.
• You’ll generally be slower in terms of mobility. Most condi specs don’t take focus and don’t take traveler’s runes. Some do use blink though. This is extremely frustrating, and a big handicap for a Mesmer in pvp. Learn how to forward phase retreat.
• Condi Mesmer is a lower risk, lower reward playstyle. If you’re good on a condi spec, you should be able to duel any power spec. Derogatory terms for conditions (aids, cancer, etc) came from dueling arenas and players who say condition specs are “cheesy”. You can make more mistakes and rebound on condition Mesmer.

So to answer your question: yes, condition Mesmer is viable!! Really, the only thing that makes Mesmer viable in a general sense is the fact that there are so many bad players in pvp, but I’m not complaining!

MailMail.6534:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Here’s the general consensus.

If you’re going to play in tournaments: Condition isnt going to work (but then neither is mesmer in general)

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it: No one’s going to carry you as a Power Shatter.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it vs premades: it doesnt matter, you’re going to lose the match anyway.

If you’re going to play outisde of tournaments pugging it, premade, vs pugs, casuals, whatever comes out of that low to high level silly MMR system: use anything you like, just be a boss with it.

This.

But I’ll add to the conversation with these general statements that should be obvious but might not be to some:

• Condi Mesmer has a lot more sustainability. You’ll last longer in fights.
• Condi Mesmer also has a lot more flexibility in the types of utilities you can use.
• You will NOT burst people while on Condi Mesmer. It takes time for you to really turn the tide of a fight. Like, a lot of time for the dmg output to get up there. And because time is of the essence, this is generally why condition Mesmer allegedly doesn’t work in top tier.
• You’ll generally be slower in terms of mobility. Most condi specs don’t take focus and don’t take traveler’s runes. Some do use blink though. This is extremely frustrating, and a big handicap for a Mesmer in pvp. Learn how to forward phase retreat.
• Condi Mesmer is a lower risk, lower reward playstyle. If you’re good on a condi spec, you should be able to duel any power spec. Derogatory terms for conditions (aids, cancer, etc) came from dueling arenas and players who say condition specs are “cheesy”. You can make more mistakes and rebound on condition Mesmer.

So to answer your question: yes, condition Mesmer is viable!! Really, the only thing that makes Mesmer viable in a general sense is the fact that there are so many bad players in pvp, but I’m not complaining!

Adding to this,

Many good mesmer support builds and “bunker” builds use condition as their damage source. This is because of great synergy between defensive stats/traits/builds and defensive amulets. So things like mobility arent a big issue if you’re planning on sitting on a point. You just have to get there to begin with, and not go down.

In these situations it’s potentially irrelevant if you can burst someone down or not. On point defense serves as a battle of attrition, and so long as you can outlast/outdamage over time the opponent, you’re doing your job. In that instance “condi” is as viable as anything.

Ross Biddle.2367:

In these situations it’s potentially irrelevant if you can burst someone down or not. On point defense serves as a battle of attrition, and so long as you can outlast/outdamage over time the opponent, you’re doing your job. In that instance “condi” is as viable as anything.

To elaborate on this, condition builds are generally much more suited for maintaining outnumbered fights. If you’re fighting more than one person, it doesn’t actually matter whether or not you even lose the point. As long as you’re able to put yourself into a position where if they fight you with less than 2 people, their point will be lost, you’re forcing an outnumbered fight on the rest of the map for your team.

Sometimes teams will even send 3 people to deal with you, and you can really just run around in circles devoting all your mobility and skills to simply playing hide and seek. It doesn’t matter if you never kill a single person, or if you never take that point. What matters is that on the rest of the map, your team is playing 4v2.

In my experience, condi hasn’t proved to be very useful. Tough it may just be because of bad players trying to use the spec or maybe it’s just that bad but here’s what I think:

Power will always be superior imo just because of the outplay ability it has. (others have mentioned the kiting 3 opponents on their point while your team easily wins strategy which I can see condi working for)
Now I do believe condi can be viable if played well (though I have yet to see it played well I do believe someone can make it work)
But in top tier play I think the reason it isn’t there is because the roles it could fill are better done by other classes/builds:
Roamer? thief or power shatter does a better gank job as they secure quicker kills
Point holder? Mesmer class is naturally too glassy to be able to hold a point against the meta cele specs due to lack of consistent condi removal and their lack of burst pressure to counter the sustain healing
Decapper? Not enough cc to decap a point
Teamfighting? doesn’t have party support or any sort of strong consistent burst to put out in order to shift a teamfight
Far pusher? I could see it sort of being successful at that but I also feel that role is better suited by an ele or engi.

Anyways that’s just my thought on it but I haven’t done a ton of playing with that as I don’t enjoy condi anything really (except terrormancer because how could you not like that?) but if it works for you I’d say keep at it and if not maybe your desire for condi can be done with a different class/build?

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

witcher.3197:

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

Except that it doesn’t. Condie builds, played well, are absolutely effective all the way up to anything less than WTS level of play. Source: me.

witcher.3197:

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

The very first, 4 word sentence opening the above paragraph reveals the inner scrub at work. True players play to win and will use any and all means available to them to do so.

witcher.3197:

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

It really is the staple of easy to play as auto attacks and sigils will apply the majority of your conditions. Shatter/CI is vastly superior when it comes to conquest and tdm but has a high ceiling for skill.

It’s not that condition builds are bad, but power just trumps it in pvp.

I don’t want to see this thread becoming locked with null arguments .

My pov
I play low mid pvp
I used to play power shatter , failed with lockdown build or didn’t give it a chance and turn to condi as I wanted to explore
Power shatter shines if not being targeted as his dps his huge and fast
But check the last ESL and you see helseth doing low dmg out put around 500 from aa and hardly do burst shatter as he was constantly targeted
Thus the play style is more like a thief kite and hide till your burst rdy which result in lower sustain dps

So don’t try to compare power to condi

Mtd shatter now can handle almost any 1v1 thus making good for close or far holder
Recently I started to try more outnumbered in far so my team may have advantage
Power shatter won’t
In group fight my dps is same or even higher then power shatter also it’s aoe

Down side it get cleansed so you have to know and time your shatter or you waste them
Up side is you make your enemies use skills and utilities earlier in the fight

Guildy friend who play power and lock down try mtd build and was amazed
We play both on far and manage 2v3 while doing 25 torment stacks ( what will happend after the new patch? I wonder ) but he still thinks power better in certain circmstances

So try it and make your mind

phokus.8934:

witcher.3197:

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

It really is the staple of easy to play as auto attacks and sigils will apply the majority of your conditions. Shatter/CI is vastly superior when it comes to conquest and tdm but has a high ceiling for skill.

It’s not that condition builds are bad, but power just trumps it in pvp.

Truly beg to differ here. Zerker classes DON’T do well on Courtyard in the least bit. Also, you mention autoattacks/sigils doing a lot of dmg on condition builds as if air/fire runes aren’t OP at all with autoattacks. lol

You really misunderstood what I wrote…

First – yes, berserker does do very well in tdm. Now you seem to have mistaken that the whole team is running berserker but this is the Mesmer forum so I assume you’d know that and Mesmers cannot effectively run any type of Celestial build.

Second – I never said the sigils/autoattacks do a lot of damage but rather are the damage. Big difference as the total damage done is mainly from those sources but the burst just isn’t there. You’re also overlooking the fact that condition builds are primarily linked to autoattacks and their sigils. Most power based builds in pvp do not as they rely on burst rather than sustained dps.

I didn’t get on too well with either torment shatter or pu condi in sPvP and honestly found them a bit useless against competent players. However, I’ve found condi interrupt builds quite powerful due to that extra control utility. Many players don’t know how to deal with a well versed interrupt Mesmer (can’t imagine this will ever change) so it also benefits from general player ignorance. Obviously power interrupt is even better due to halting strike, but I certainly recomend condi interrupt too.

phokus.8934:

Second – I never said the sigils/autoattacks do a lot of damage but rather are the damage. Big difference as the total damage done is mainly from those sources but the burst just isn’t there. You’re also overlooking the fact that condition builds are primarily linked to autoattacks and their sigils. Most power based builds in pvp do not as they rely on burst rather than sustained dps.

I beg to differ. PU, perhaps, relies on autos and the AA of clones more, however Condi Shatter relies on, as you may have guessed, shatters as their main source of damage and rely on autos as much as, per say, power shatter[using them every now and then for a little extra DPS]. We utilize our staff clones for conditions as well as we can, of course, but it is definitely not what our condi shatter builds are built around or rely on for damage.

Dondagora.9645:

phokus.8934:

Second – I never said the sigils/autoattacks do a lot of damage but rather are the damage. Big difference as the total damage done is mainly from those sources but the burst just isn’t there. You’re also overlooking the fact that condition builds are primarily linked to autoattacks and their sigils. Most power based builds in pvp do not as they rely on burst rather than sustained dps.

I beg to differ. PU, perhaps, relies on autos and the AA of clones more, however Condi Shatter relies on, as you may have guessed, shatters as their main source of damage and rely on autos as much as, per say, power shatter[using them every now and then for a little extra DPS]. We utilize our staff clones for conditions as well as we can, of course, but it is definitely not what our condi shatter builds are built around or rely on for damage.

Not even PU relies so much upon autoattacks as it does on clone deaths and things like the scepter block. It’s absurd to say that any build relies entirely upon autoattacks. All builds rely on sigils to some extent as well. Condie builds rely on sigils for poison generally, and power builds rely greatly on sigils for adding to the burst significantly with fire/air.

At any rate, as I said before…PU condie (I can’t personally speak for condie shatter) is absolutely viable at any level outside of WTS competition. Source: I have played it there, successfully.

MailMail.6534:

Truly beg to differ here. Zerker classes DON’T do well on Courtyard in the least bit. Also, you mention autoattacks/sigils doing a lot of dmg on condition builds as if air/fire runes aren’t OP at all with autoattacks. lol

Agree that this is a big problem for Mesmer. Zerk shatter is manageable on courtyard, but imo very suboptimal. I hate having to furiously change build to a reflect-orriented tankier variant or something with a tad more survivability.

Re: general condi builds, I agree with much of what has been said above, but get a bit frustrated that you have to go condi if you want to try to hold a point for any real time. I do like, however, that condi gives a lot of build flexibility, with pretty much the only requirements being 0/4/0/0/4, leaving 6 points to play around with.

Q: what are people’s thoughts on torch vs. pistol offhand for pvp condi?

guys till now i havent read even 1 reason why power better then condi although i dont want to compare them both as both got different approach and game style and purpose.

but lets try consider group fight in tpvp

power – hight short burst
condi – constant dps

power – can be evaded, blocked, blinded, immune when you shatter and use skills
condi – the same but also can be cleansed by using skills and utilities

power – shatter at the right moment
condi – shatter at will but look for the right moments

power – dont have free utility slot
condi – do have free utility slot

power – cant handle the cele meta
condi – can handle the cele meta

power – hardly make the enemy use skills by it attacks
condi – push the enemy to use cleanse and heal

so the basic questions are
1. do the group need condition class over power burst? yes or no
2. does his conditions proc often to handle the cleanses ? yes
3. can he handle 1v1 ? yes
4. can he support the group? can take portal, boon rip feedback, null field etc so yes

Bunda.2691:

Q: what are people’s thoughts on torch vs. pistol offhand for pvp condi?

Different weapons for different purposes. Torch provides defense in multiple forms; pistol provides offense in multiple forms.

Bunda.2691:

Q: what are people’s thoughts on torch vs. pistol offhand for pvp condi?

torch – give me burning, stealth, blind, confusion and blast finisher and not so important illusion to shatter and give it up

pistol – stun/daze, stack bleed around 3-6, i dont like to lose him for shatter

thus i like torch

messiah.1908:

power – hight short burst
condi – constant dps

Both have constant dps, both have burst even if condi burst duration is longer (MtD).

messiah.1908:

power – dont have free utility slot
condi – do have free utility slot

can take portal, boon rip feedback, null field etc so yes

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say but I see them both having decoy, blink and an optional slot. Sure you can take away blink and pick something else but that applies to power too.

messiah.1908:

power – cant handle the cele meta
condi – can handle the cele meta

Is there a huge difference? You can kill engis with both… celes and warriors seem very hard to kill for both and I’m pretty sure you get pushed off the point or die… I don’t exactly call that “handling the cele meta”.

messiah.1908:

power – hardly make the enemy use skills by it attacks
condi – push the enemy to use cleanse and heal

This…. just complete nonsense…. If I start to murder someone with my power shatter you’re telling me he won’t heal, dodge, counter, use invuls etc?

messiah.1908:

guys till now i havent read even 1 reason why power better then condi

Why I think power is better than condi: For me personally it’s the speed and surprise + the incredibly useful illusionary persona trait… such utility in 1v1s and in team fights, when stomping, ressing, interrupting, defense, when you need that one extra hit to down someone or one boon stripped.

Wouldn’t trade these BIG advantages to SLIGHT advantages that condimesmer brings.

Wile.5024:

Why I think power is better than condi: For me personally it’s the speed and surprise + the incredibly useful illusionary persona trait… such utility in 1v1s and in team fights, when stomping, ressing, interrupting, defense, when you need that one extra hit to down someone or one boon stripped.

Wouldn’t trade these BIG advantages to SLIGHT advantages that condimesmer brings.

thats what i meant. both are good in different ways and personal taste.
dont forget as power shatter you will be targeted constantly giving you hard time to do constant and sustain dps

in a perfect 1v1 (king of the hill) power shatter all the way. in group fight when you team got dps guard/ranger/thief i dont really knows

Wile.5024:

Both have constant dps, both have burst even if condi burst duration is longer (MtD).

not true – power need to AA or use skills to do constant dmg. while condi dont. as conditions ticks even when the mesmer dont use any skills till they get cleanse

Wile.5024:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say but I see them both having decoy, blink and an optional slot. Sure you can take away blink and pick something else but that applies to power too.

blink – must
decoy – must in power. not in condition
? – free utility to power and 2 for condition

Wile.5024:

Is there a huge difference? You can kill engis with both… celes and warriors seem very hard to kill for both and I’m pretty sure you get pushed off the point or die… I don’t exactly call that “handling the cele meta”.

power shatter wont try to go for engi or ele or shout warrior as it just losing time else where even in 2v1 . while condi can handle them 1v1 soften them for fast kill in 2v1 or 1v1 without get push off point (engi yes with his turrets)

Wile.5024:

This…. just complete nonsense…. If I start to murder someone with my power shatter you’re telling me he won’t heal, dodge, counter, use invuls etc?

it seems you taking in as 1v1 in perfect world scenarios where you stand freely un-targeted . power shatter maybe push the enemy to dodge often or use heal skill. but condi push them to use shouts and other cleanse skills also.

I’m getting sick of your more or less black and white comments…

Let’s simplify: power does large dmg on one hit, condition does small ticks for some time => both do same amount of dmg in some time if you stop attacking….

- Condimesmers get focused the same as power does (15k hp yey!), maybe even worse since you need to be closer all the time

- I kill cele engis with power, I think I’m not the only one

- You can soften up other celes for 2v1 with power, you can kill them 1v1 too if you hit good shatters + use interrupt…. very hard to hold a point with both power and condition

- Not having decoy+blink will hurt you a lot with condition, it’s not like some “free extra” utility slot like you constantly keep claiming

Wile.5024:

I’m getting sick of your more or less black and white comments…

Let’s simplify: power does large dmg on one hit, condition does small ticks for some time => both do same amount of dmg in some time if you stop attacking….

- Condimesmers get focused the same as power does (15k hp yey!), maybe even worse since you need to be closer all the time

- I kill cele engis with power, I think I’m not the only one

- You can soften up other celes for 2v1 with power, you can kill them 1v1 too if you hit good shatters + use interrupt…. very hard to hold a point with both power and condition

- Not having decoy+blink will hurt you a lot with condition, it’s not like some “free extra” utility slot like you constantly keep claiming

Condi doesn’t do small ticks of damage over time. Mesmer’s Condi Shatter can stack for massive ticks. It’ll take 3+ seconds for it to rev up, but the pressure and damage it places can be greater than Power’s. Power, of course, has it’s own purpose and does well in it [focusing a lot of damage into a shorter amount of time], however Condi does things that power can’t such as applying constant and strong AoE pressure, standing on point[depending on stats, of course], and dealing with thieves. They’re made for different purposes, comparing which is better or worse is like comparing how necro’s stealthiness is worse than thief’s, so thief is better. Comparing A to Z based on who’s closer to B doesn’t make much sense.

Dondagora.9645:

Condi doesn’t do small ticks of damage over time.

That’s exactly what it does, and I was talking about one hit.

Dondagora.9645:

Mesmer’s Condi Shatter can stack for massive ticks. It’ll take 3+ seconds for it to rev up, but the pressure and damage it places can be greater than Power’s.

Yes it can be greater but it can also be zero. Hit someone with a full f2 shatter and the enemy instantly cleanses it => 0 dmg done (almost every build runs condition cleanse). Hit someone with full power mind wrack => tons of dmg every time.

Dondagora.9645:

, however Condi does things that power can’t such as applying constant and strong AoE pressure

This one sounds reasonable as you’ll be inflicting torment and confusion with every shatter.

Can condi work? For soloque/pugging it sure. If you are ever in a team, that is using TS my advice is to go power shatter (not MTD). Why? Well if you are in a coordinated team that one already accepts you on your mes, feel happy. Now that being said, if you are playing condi you are forgetting some of the key reasons people bring a mes

• Heavy boon strip with some amazing burst.
• Interrupts, as it stands right now the only class with better CC than us as far as interrupts go is engis, with some necro builds in a close second.
• Portal- from what i’ve seen in most condi builds, they don’t include portal. In a team even unorganized or hell even in a pug. Portal can be a game changer. Having one player on your team in a pug that knows what it is and when to make use of it can keep the flow of a match in your favor.

Now that being said, is it the best possible mesmer build? No, it is not. That is coming from someone that has been an active part of the mesmer community since near launch, and played (most) mesmer builds til blue in the face.

Basically if you are trying to fill a condi slot on a team, you are better off on an engi/necro plain and simple. If you are trying to fill a mesmer slot on a team, more often than not you will bring more to that team as a power shatter mesmer. Those who want to disagree with me on this can, but from playing and facing several condi mesmers (even getting my rear handed to me by some of them), in the long run you bring more to your team, on power shatter. I have lost my fair share of 1v1’s to condi builds, but almost no matches have been lost to a team with a condi mesmer.

jportell.2197:

Basically if you are trying to fill a condi slot on a team, you are better off on an engi/necro plain and simple.

This is always the hard argument to get passed.

Of course power shatter mes can’t escape it either at the moment. Thief > Mes. GG.

To take your whole assessment into account, you’ve made a powerful argument for CI mes far over and above IP shatter. Solid damage, maximum interrupt play, great team fighter, boon strip, and of course portal. The last being the only thing anyone cares about anymore.

Problem with condi mesmer is the ramp up time and lack of condi coverage.

There’s good reason why engineer is the undisputed king of condi classes. It can spike a ton of conditions quick and often, and it’s got a wide access to boons and block and cc in the same spec.

The mesmer relies on offhand pistol with sharpened images to even frontload a good number of bleeds, otherwise you rely on 3 staff clones with a slow projectile speed applying bleeds at a glacial pace.

More importantly, condi mesmer has randomness built into it because apparently applying vulnerability on a condi weapon is good.

On top of it all, all that condi application is pretty much single target outside some niche shatter uses, and your condi application means, the images, suffer the same issue all mesmer illusion specs do, they die immediately to engineer grenades and necro marks and ele aoe and guardian whirling wrath cleaves.

So not only do you lack the condi spike and coverage of an engineer, you lack the blast fields and blast finishers they bring, you lack the access to boons for your teammates, you lack the hard CC, and the autoattacks on both mesmer’s weapons suck (as do most mesmer autoattacks in general).

More importantly, in a game format and in general as well, you bring little aoe pressure in a game where aoe is essential, there’s virtually no downside to cleave/aoe in this game because those skills tend to do as much damage as single target ones if not more.

And don’t expect any buffs to mesmer, they appear to balance this game around the whines of people who duel or roam in WvW instead of around group play, and since mesmer does well enough in duels and roaming it will never get changes without significant whine from people who lose 1v1’s to them or get beaten in a roaming scenario. The same applies to necromancer, solid 1v1 class but held back in group play due to 1v1/roaming whine.

really hard to argue with that
i dont play condi engi but yes those guys can aoe the kitten and have also CC boon and blast finisher especialy with heals ad water field

but after testing with some friends engi versus condi mtd – the later does more dps and some even aoe.
the engi can proc poison, burning (more 1v1) few bleed stacks 3-5, confusion 5 1v1 mainly
so his aoe dmg is mainly poison and burning and few bleed which are more in a 10 sec rotation in average

while mesmer does torment and confusion and burning and bleed and poison and weakness (negate dmg) and vulnerability if traited in lower rotation in average

but yes engi bring aoe water field with 2 blast and boons and block and cc. which are more important to the group

but consider 1 engi and 1 mtd shatter . engi hold close and mesmer rotate the mid and far….

i think you first want to ask yourself does condi really needed in tpvp at all?
also what your team think of it also

if your team lack burst dmg than dont go condi
if the enemy team composition is around the cele meta than condi can be good as power
if the enemy team comp around bursty classes than condi can be great if you team got 1 bunker or support
if you get targeted that its doesnt matter condi or power

if your team on ts cordiante a kill than go power so 3 of you bursting 1 in 3v3 but also 2v1 should bring someone down fast under 3 sec. so condi can fit in aswel
if your job is to cap point harrass etc… you can go condi aswel

there is no right or worng here

messiah.1908:

really hard to argue with that
i dont play condi engi but yes those guys can aoe the kitten and have also CC boon and blast finisher especialy with heals ad water field

but after testing with some friends engi versus condi mtd – the later does more dps and some even aoe.
the engi can proc poison, burning (more 1v1) few bleed stacks 3-5, confusion 5 1v1 mainly
so his aoe dmg is mainly poison and burning and few bleed which are more in a 10 sec rotation in average

while mesmer does torment and confusion and burning and bleed and poison and weakness (negate dmg) and vulnerability if traited in lower rotation in average

but yes engi bring aoe water field with 2 blast and boons and block and cc. which are more important to the group

but consider 1 engi and 1 mtd shatter . engi hold close and mesmer rotate the mid and far….

Mesmer seems nice from a theoretical perspective as you pointed out, but in practice it’s an entirely different story. There’s good reason condi mesmers are nonexistent in tournaments where money prizes are at stake. Nothing tests commitment to a build better than the thought of losing a fat cash prize over it.

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Condi is noob friendly. If you can’t play power effectively and you play in the low/middle rating zone then yes, you’ll be more useful with condi. The moment you learn how to play mesmer or step out of elohell, power outclasses condi so hard I can’t even describe it.

Except that it doesn’t. Condie builds, played well, are absolutely effective all the way up to anything less than WTS level of play. Source: me.

OP was asking about condi mes. I was talking about condi/power mesmer, not power and condi builds in general accross all professions. Afaik, nobody won a single round of tournament so far with an MtD mesmer nor plays it at semi-high ratings (well, in these farmboard times it’s hard to determine the true rank of a player). Maybe I missed something, in that case I’d like to see the VOD Even if it’s just an ESL weekly.